Community Feedback Discussion

[Roy38]

You may just be a mature person but you seem to have a child like mentality when it comes to this business. Especially when you throw out.



First of all it is none of your fucking business. Good heavens. This is a practice that happens in every business. Should they stop being a go-between because the product has issues? It is not like they are defending the issues or not responding to them. Does that benefit NCAA 13 and beyond? I like having the ear of someone who has the ear of EA. It beats calling customer service with a problem, complaint or suggestion or for that matter trying to do so on the EA Forums.




To my liking, Yes. I play offline and never use custom playbooks. I can understand why people are upset but for cripes sake show me that perfect game. I like Dead Island but it does not mean I am happy with the graphical issues, crazy respawn issues and other problems.

I do want to respond to the others who have responded to my questions and concerns, but your post can help clear some of the air.

1. Should they stop being a go-between because this product has issues?

That is their decision. I like the concept of the Game Changers program as well as the Community Day events, but I'd have concerns on what comes with being apart of those events. Which leads me to...

2. I like having the ear of someone who has the ear of EA. It beats calling customer service with a problem, complaint or suggestion or for that matter trying to do so on the EA Forums.

Here is where I have my concerns with that relationship. Your last sentence perfectly illustrates my point. It beats calling (EA) customer service with a problem, complaint, or suggestion or for that matter trying to do so on the EA Forums.

So to my point, EA is using those involved with the Game Changers program and the Community Day events as free Customer Service (minus the "reimbursement" cost.) Rather than contacting EA, you can contact these guys - and they are way more readily available to hear and respond to your opinions, both positive and negative, than anyone from EA.

Do you understand where my "child like" mentality is coming from now, or do you feel the need to try and belittle me some more? You lost me at Operation Sports, anyway...

[Deuce]

Pretty simple...if you don't like the relationship this site has with EA go away.


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[bdoughty]

Do you understand where my "child like" mentality is coming from now, or do you feel the need to try and belittle me some more? You lost me at Operation Sports, anyway...

No, I honestly have no clue where you are coming from. I see what you are saying, just have no clue why you are saying it... You like the concept of of the Game Changers and Community Day Events but you think that these guys are just a bunch of mouthpeices for EA who are just in it for the bling and getting the game early. You think think that EA is just taking advantage of the situation and these guys are just a bunch of dupes doing their dirty work, cheap. So you would rather talk to an EA rep over the phone that usually has little knowledge about the game then a person like the Game Changers who all have a pretty good working knowledge of the game. Maybe you would rather have Ben and the dev team spending hours on the forums keeping you updated on everything happening and there to apologize for their errors when they could be working on the actual game. Or even better have an inside guy like Ronnie at 2Ksports. Someone who never tows the company line, always shoots straight and gets you all the information you require because he is in the building (yes that was sarcasm).

Don't understand exactly what losing you at OS means but it appears that you leave your belittling for whole communities.

I will just have to say that I appreciate what the Game Changers do, glad to be part of this site and no further commentary from me is necessary.

[morsdraconis]

I don't know why you guys are wasting your time. I can tell you exactly why none of the admins here are wasting theirs. He's a moron from the other forum who just likes to totally lambast anything associated with EA and this website in any way that he can for no reason other than the fact that he's a troll.

[JBHuskers]

So I have been gone a majority of the weekend, so I will break the "silence" with .... whose business is it anyways on perks and what is spent and etc.

[JBHuskers]

Here is a simple sentence for anyone to understand.

WE ARE NOT BOUGHT OFF TO MARKET THEIR GAMES. THIS IS NOT A MARKETING AVENUE.

Those are such ridiculous statements.

End of story.

The massive amount of feedback has gotten the series in the right direction, but no one ever wants to focus on anything positive with the series, they just want to fucking rail every single negative into the ground.

[MuckyPup]

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

[ram29jackson]

So I have been gone a majority of the weekend, so I will break the "silence" with .... whose business is it anyways on perks and what is spent and etc.

since when are tranny bars a perk ?

[I OU a Beatn]

Here is a simple sentence for anyone to understand.

WE ARE NOT BOUGHT OFF TO MARKET THEIR GAMES. THIS IS NOT A MARKETING AVENUE.

Those are such ridiculous statements.

End of story.

The massive amount of feedback has gotten the series in the right direction, but no one ever wants to focus on anything positive with the series, they just want to fucking rail every single negative into the ground.

Not really. Two very well respected members of the NCAA community(arguably two of the MOST respected members of the NCAA community) have threatened or already have quit going to EA's community day events because they've both said the exact same thing - EA will not implement the necessary changes to make NCAA the game that it should be. What's the point of inviting members of the community to their studios for feedback and support if they're only going to listen to certain things, namely easy things that don't take much to be implemented? It may be incorrect, but that reads to me like it IS a publicity stunt pulled by EA at your guys' expense so they appear to the community that they actually care about what the fanbase wants.

What are the positive things with the series this generation? We're 6 years in and it still doesn't play as well as the PS2 version ever did. We have issues with ball trajectory. We have issues with the game plan settings being fucked up(this needs removed). We have issues with custom playbooks. We now have issues with no huddle. We have issues online involving NUMEROUS disconnection glitches, the goon kick, several offside glitches, etc...that have existed for years and have been knowingly ignored by EA. We have issues with defensive pursuit angles. We still have issues with morphing interception animations.

It's absolutely ridiculous the amount of issues this game has that have existed for multiple years. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the intentions of the community day guys here are sincere. There's also absolutely no doubt in my mind that the intent of EA inviting you guys to come down and play the game is nothing short of a publicity stunt to appear like they're actually taking information from the community. Why else will they not listen to guys like rhombic and oneback, two of the arguably most knowledgeable guys on the entire planet when it comes to this game?

[oweb26]

Not really. Two very well respected members of the NCAA community(arguably two of the MOST respected members of the NCAA community) have threatened or already have quit going to EA's community day events because they've both said the exact same thing - EA will not implement the necessary changes to make NCAA the game that it should be.

I was about to say something but I will keep it to myself. All I will say is if you say so IOU, I only respect one of those guys you are referring to.

[Roy38]

Allow me to correct the later part of your statement. There is no direct exchange of money between EA SPORTS and people who attend Community Events. Travel is covered, hospitality is covered, but nobody gets paid to offset the time they missed at work. If a person goes to the event and doesn't have the paid time off or vacation time, then they lose whatever money they would have made at their employment for that time. For some people, a free video game and compensated travel expenses don't begin to touch the money they lose from not being on the clock.

I know that getting anything covered could essentially be construed as payment, believe me; I've heard the argument often enough. But we're also far from being employees at EA, if only because of our limited involvement in the development cycle.

It's not as though EA is the only company to hold community events, either. For some reason, these events and the people who attend them just seem to be placed under more scrutiny than those other companies.

Again, thanks for responding in a positive manner. I disagree with your statement somewhat. While I would agree these items may seem minimal, you at least felt it was enough to miss time from your normal job as well as any pay you would've received on those days. I think we agree to disagree on this topic and it's something we no longer need to discuss.

To be fair, EA SPORTS has advertised email addresses specifically meant for people to send in feedback and any issues they are seeing with the game through their social media accounts. Anybody following those outlets would have that information available to them if they wanted to contact the development team directly. I know that the game's executive producer reads every single email that comes to that account.

I seriously doubt this statement, but that's something to discuss at another time.

When we consider how many people frequent forums instead of emailing EA directly, it kind of just happens. People here--and some people away from here--know that The Gaming Tailgate's forums have a number of people who attended community events this year. The same is true for other websites owned and maintained by Game Changers and community attendees. If a person unhappy with the game doesn't think EA is going to listen to them, why wouldn't they come here and see if calling out to one of us might get them a better result? Whether that is actually true or not ends up not meaning much once somebody gets the belief in mind that trying to reach out to any official outlet at EA won't be fruitful for them.

I would prefer that people try to get in touch with the developers through the direct lines they have in place, but I also appreciate that--when I joined the Game Changers program--I would be seen as somebody in the community who might be granted more access than the average consumer. Again, if I thought that my time was being abused because I'm serving as an "unpaid intermediary" for the program, I wouldn't be in this position.

I'm sure you do. You and everyone else involved assumes their own risk.

Again, the lines of communication were established by the company through the feedback email address. I don't feel at all like I've been here at the forums trying to say that Patch #1 or Patch #2 fixed everything that is still problematic with the game, and I don't feel like I've been intentionally deflecting anger from the company; though some people seem to take their excess anger out on us--people who gave feedback and had no direct hand in the creation of the game code--in addition to the development team at times.

When I joined the Game Changers program, I knew how polarizing EA SPORTS can be to people; there are people who love the company and the games, and an equal--probably greater--number who are on the opposite end of the spectrum. But having the opportunity to see inside the development process and provide feedback for the games has made it worthwhile for me.

I don't expect you to be in agreement with me about the various topics you've broached, but I hope that getting this perspective helps your understanding of the program and why somebody would put themselves into it.

I'd like to think I'd be excited about the opportunity to do something to improve the series I've been apart of since the Bill Walsh days. As you pointed out earlier, you did feel like some of your thoughts were taken into consideration or put into action and that would be the draw to the opportunity. Since I'm not afforded that opportunity, I only have the perspective as a consumer. As a consumer, I've witnessed many ups and downs with the series, but lately its trend has been more negative than positive - but that's my point of view. Granted, there has been some significant improvements to the series (Online Dynasty being a huge upgrade) which I can't deny, but when those improvements don't work as intended (Custom Playbooks and Online Dynasty issues), it's easy to get frustrated. When those items are proclaimed fixed via a patch or tuner update and subsequently not, the frustration level increases. As we approach the end of the XBOX 360/PS3 lifecycle, we should be reaching the pinnacle of the series (which is another argument in itself, but I'll leave that one alone), but there have been very few high points over the last 5 years. I think this is easily evidenced through the sales figures over that time period.

Understand, I place no blame on any individuals associated with the Game Changers program or the Community Day events. The blame lies solely at EA's feet and for the consumers (myself included) for feeding their efforts or lack thereof.

Why waste the time to speak out? I've grown tired of EA's corporate schtick. When you go back to the beginning of NCAA '12's development cycle, you got the impression they were making a positive change. Adding in the Game Changers program and the Community Day events only enhanced that image. Fast forward to the present: How does their image appear now? I'll be the first to admit, there is plenty to like about NCAA '12 at first glance. As a member of the hardcore community, it was refreshing to be challenged for once - at least from the perspective of an Offensive Coordinator at a 1 start school in an Online Dynasty. Once the flaws crept in, most notably the Online Dynasty or "Transfer Failed" issues where I simply become a bystander as my games become simmed, that luster is completely removed.

Which brings me to my word of caution that I brought up earlier. I hope you can understand what I'm seeing. When you guys put yourself on the limb of:

"I see what you mean about that issue. I'll pass that along to Ben."
"We're aware of that and we've already given that information to the developers."

It's putting you in a precarious position, as another poster so easily illustrated for me, of being an EA Customer Service Representative or PR person. You're becoming the go-between between EA and the NCAA consumers - an unpaid or, at the very least, a minimally reimbursed one. It's just something I'm seeing from my end and I felt the need to point out. My intent was only to gather information and present a case - not to ruffle feathers or cause a fracture. Again, thanks for your time and I appreciate your candid responses.

[umhester04]

I find it pretty sad that this game in the current state that it's in is tearing apart people from this website. The mood from pre-game release to post game release has changed so much that it is staggering, however that seems to be what it is like every year. Props to NCAA's marketing department.

[Kwizzy]

Ok so I have been EXTREMELY busy lately and have not played any games in weeks so I cannot speak with first hand knowledge of the issues introduced by the 2nd patch. That being said, I would like to address some of the other things being discussed about the community day attendees and what not. Please note that I do not speak for anyone but myself, and I am not addressing these remarks to anyone specific but rather the community as a whole.

I am as disappointed as anyone regarding all of the issues and miscues that have plagued this release. Although I have not experienced some of the issues that others have had (and honest to god, none were experienced before the release of the first patch) the ones I have experienced are more frustrating than words can describe. The continued issues with the patches also, boggle my mind.

Now, as to the perception that I am nothing more than a bought and paid for mouth piece for EA… If I ever feel that EA’s intention in bringing me to the community events was anything other than providing valuable feedback to help improve this game dramatically I would not participate. While I do not refute that they are taking care of expenses in my travel, etc as has been discussed I will tell you that I have made, what for me is a serious sacrifice to take part in these events. This year I was granted 11 vacation days from work, I used 8 of those days on these events. As a result my yearly hunting trip with my dad & grandfather is being skipped, as is my yearly vacation with my constantly busy med-school student fiancé, not to mention the time spent picking little things apart rather than playing the game for enjoyment. I take that commitment on my part very seriously as has EA, and while I don’t expect any sympathy, I will not take anyone seriously who wants to question my commitment & integrity when dealing with EA and the community.

Having gotten all of that out of the way, I think there are several things at work here that need to be considered by the masses. When providing feedback & interacting with the DEVS I have NEVER felt like my feedback was not appreciated and examined. Now I would be lying if I said that I have been completely satisfied with the way my feedback has been incorporated. Also, as I said in other posts, I sometimes wonder how much freedom the devs actually have to incorporate my feedback on some of the larger issues especially and that is something I would like to clarify more before my continued participation. Believe me when I say that I will be speaking with EA to be sure that my time and energy spent is worth it, if I feel that I am banging my head against a brick wall I will not continue to do so. I cannot speak for others in the past or present who feel that their time was wasted. Personally, I can understand why a great deal of my feedback was NOT incorporated this year. I suggested and recommended drastic changes that addressed CORE gameplay issues and therefore are probably NOT going to be able to be dramatically addressed mid dev cycle. My hope is that in making decisions for future titles that these issues and suggestions are incorporated into the decision process as to what will be addressed in the upcoming title and in future releases. If I ever feel that there is no intent for that to be the case, I will not continue to participate. I HAVE NOT participated in the events before this year so I can only base my opinion on my own experiences here. Sorry this got so long-winded.

[Roy38]

Well, considering you had asked who had participated, and I had answered, I assumed that I, Paakaa, Oneback Kwizzy, and steelerfan, all of whom are prominent and regular posters here, were left out of your question for a reason.

Again, it was an oversight on my part. I immediately saw this website's owner and co-founders names, so I directed my attention towards them. Also, as you pointed out earlier, I didn't ask for your response. To that end, I didn't ask Paakaa either, but he decided to step in for some quality dialogue while you chose to beat your chest. Now, had you chosen the path to communicate, we'd be having a different conversation.

Now on to your question:
I knew where you were going with it. I figured I'd let you make your point before responding.
It also comes down to the perception of what has changed. Are you saying that you'd rather they not spend any resources on those issues? So you'd prefer to see a game that looks the exact same as years past? Some people argue it does anyway, though I think those people are nuts. And, at the end of the day, there is more than just the TGT audience (and who we represent) to consider. A game that looks like it belongs in 2007, but is coming out in 2011, probably isn't going to get very much attention from the more casual audience.

Or are you saying that they spent too many resources on the art? Because I've noticed that quite a few people mention the grass, HDR and dreadlocks as if they're new features that are designed to sell the game. What about the enhanced Custom Conferences? Removal of suction blocking and tackling? Custom Playbooks? Coaching Carousel? I'd hazard to guess that the art enhancements, with the possible exception of fundamentally changing the lighting, cost a fraction of what any of those features I listed cost.

You assume wrong.

I'm all for graphical upgrades, new features, etc. as the next guy, but not at the cost of actual gameplay. When you consider the numerous things they don't fix title to title (and I don't think we need to start a list here) and consequently title update to title update and tuner upgrade to tuner upgrade, I'd much rather they refocus their effort on making the game actual play beautifully. My point is I think their effort is misguided.

It is the weekend ...

Are you meaning the developers or those involved with these program?

EDIT: Also, "blatant lie" implies intent. I'm 99% certain that the team didn't intend to further break advertised features with the patch.

Point taken. However, when you consider Ben's statement to close his blog on Title Update #2, it is implied the problems are fixed, they've checked and double-checked the validity of the repair, and we will be perfectly happy after the long wait. He statement is blatantly false.

Which posts, from Game Changers or Community Day participants, in this thread or any other, have been damage control? I sure haven't seen many, if any at all. In fact, I've seen several Community Day participants openly vote their frustration with the outcome of the second patch.

My "relationship" with EA has allowed me to provide feedback directly to EA, both before and post release. If you think the community as a whole is better off without that relationship, more power to you, but I would vehemently disagree.

As I stated earlier and as another poster helped me make my point, you are in the unfortunate situation of becoming Customer Service Representatives to EA. I believe that your heart is in the right place and truthfully, it is a good idea, but I question EA's heart and motives on this. That's all I'm saying.

[Roy38]

Pretty simple...if you don't like the relationship this site has with EA go away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't question this site's motives. I question EA's.

[Roy38]

No, I honestly have no clue where you are coming from. I see what you are saying, just have no clue why you are saying it... You like the concept of of the Game Changers and Community Day Events but you think that these guys are just a bunch of mouthpeices for EA who are just in it for the bling and getting the game early. You think think that EA is just taking advantage of the situation and these guys are just a bunch of dupes doing their dirty work, cheap. So you would rather talk to an EA rep over the phone that usually has little knowledge about the game then a person like the Game Changers who all have a pretty good working knowledge of the game. Maybe you would rather have Ben and the dev team spending hours on the forums keeping you updated on everything happening and there to apologize for their errors when they could be working on the actual game. Or even better have an inside guy like Ronnie at 2Ksports. Someone who never tows the company line, always shoots straight and gets you all the information you require because he is in the building (yes that was sarcasm).

Don't understand exactly what losing you at OS means but it appears that you leave your belittling for whole communities.

I will just have to say that I appreciate what the Game Changers do, glad to be part of this site and no further commentary from me is necessary.

[Roy38]

I don't know why you guys are wasting your time. I can tell you exactly why none of the admins here are wasting theirs. He's a moron from the other forum who just likes to totally lambast anything associated with EA and this website in any way that he can for no reason other than the fact that he's a troll.

Appreciate the name calling.

Last I checked, you can be involved in forums over the internet. As a matter of fact, you are a member from "the other forum", correct? I didn't realize I didn't have the capacity to express my views here. Must have missed that in the rules section...

[Roy38]

Here is a simple sentence for anyone to understand.

WE ARE NOT BOUGHT OFF TO MARKET THEIR GAMES. THIS IS NOT A MARKETING AVENUE.

Those are such ridiculous statements.

End of story.

The massive amount of feedback has gotten the series in the right direction, but no one ever wants to focus on anything positive with the series, they just want to fucking rail every single negative into the ground.

I never said that.

Which way is the right direction? The "one step forward, two steps back" method doesn't lend itself to moving in the right direction. I will openly admit there's a lot to like with NCAA '12, but EA continues to cripple themselves with (non-working or partly working) title updates and tuner upgrade(s).

[I OU a Beatn]

I was about to say something but I will keep it to myself. All I will say is if you say so IOU, I only respect one of those guys you are referring to.

You may not respect one of them, but you also can't argue that they know as much if not more than anyone else about how the game should play. They know the concepts that the game should have working correctly. If there was ever two people that I would seek advice on if I worked on NCAA, it's rhombic and oneback. They both know their shit.

Both of them have gone to community day, and both of them have straight up said that EA wasn't really interested in their feedback and weren't interested in making the changes needed to make this game as good as it could be. There's been issues with this engine ever since they introduced it with '07 on 360. They need to completely redo how a lot of things are done in the game. The morphing interceptions are the perfect example. In what universe should a defensive back be able to morph THROUGH my receiver to pick off a ball that should be a completion for the offense? I thought EA was trying to appeal to the simulation and hardcore audience?

Hell, I've personally sent them glitches. I sent them instructions on how to do the goon kick, and I think it's pretty obvious why that would need to be removed. I also sent them instructions on how to perform the disconnect glitch. I sent both of those last year. Guess what's still in the game this year and done the exact same way as the year before.

[Pig Bomb]

I thought EA was trying to appeal to the simulation and hardcore audience?
.

I WISH!!!

Where did you get that idea?? It's always been my opinion that EA want this game to appeal to everyone...they have teddy bear mascot football and one button gameplay for kids all the way up to Online Dynasty for serious multi-season harcore players. It's clear to me that most fo the stuff they put in the game will not appeal to guys that visit sites like this but rather the majority of buyers that don't! I mean who cares about how long your dreads are or what color some team's socks are if the game doesn't PLAY!

I also think the community leader stuff is more about internet marketing for EA than it is about getting ideas and feedback for the game...Although they will use some of the ideas we generate. EA uses the communtiy leaders as a tool for their benefit. However, I'm happy there are guys willing to be leaders and go to the events...if they help us get anything in the game we like [like getting custom playbooks back] it's all worth it. I also enjoy all the other aspects of a fan/community site like this one, as compared to a similar site we all know that has turned completely negative and the moderators don't even play the game anymore.