Playbook Questions

[Cipher 8]

You may know everything they've run in the past, however, teams are always adding/creating plays now and then for a certain team, to take advantage of issues with that team's defense. Or a team will never use a certain formation for half the season, then bring it out for a big game against their rival or something to throw them off a bit and bring out something that they didn't prepare for during practice. I think the thing I wouldn't agree with is forcing people to list every single formation in their playbook, as at that point, you may as well force them to list their entire playbook, play for play. You're not going to go up to another team in real life the week you play them and say "I'd like to have a list of every single formation in your playbook". Maybe listing the base formations, but not every single one.

Well this is a easy fix... Instead of requiring them to post every formation BEFORE the game require they post every formation after the game, so then upcoming opponents can scout what formations they ran against teams earlier and get an idea for what type of offense to prepare for. The would be a sorta "game film" feature. It allows for teams to really scout upcoming opponents. Put in the work and you might be better prepared but it's totally optional and you can still go in blind if you just don't care to do it. Obviously listing the formation would require the members to be honest and actually type them all down and not leave any out though.

The good thing about this is the team could then add a small package for their rivals or tougher opponents that they don't face til later. That way they prepare it but are saving and haven't shown it yet which could help them out in those tougher games by the opponent not expecting it. Prime example of this is when the Dolphins brought in the Wildcat vs the Patriots. But then immediately afterwords all their future opponents would be aware of these wrinkles they added as they have to post those formations after each game...

[jwallace0317]

Yeah, I'm going to go with the simple fact that it is pretty rare, in real life football, for a team to come out with a new formation on offense that's designed only for a specific opponent. A good 99% of the time, your opponent is going to come out in a formation that you've seen them line up in before, and the question is what they're going to run out of it. In fact, from the offensive side, a key part of crafting your game plan is to take your offense's standard formations and call plays that your opponent would NOT expect to see out of those formations based on past games.

And, obviously, knowing that a team has come out in a particular formation doesn't mean it will necessarily be used in the game. I'll probably have about 15 formations in my custom playbook, but in a given game I might only use 7 or 8 depending on my opponent and how the game is going. So, not only does the disclosure of formations not indicate the specific plays you've chosen for your book, it doesn't even necessarily indicate that you will even use those formations at all in that particular game. It's just a general reference point.

You obviously wouldn't call up an opposing coach and say "give me a list of your formations"....but even if you could, it would usually be unnecessary because your game film almost always shows the looks you'll face. For that matter, you wouldn't call up an opposing coach and say "hey, destroy all your game film so that you can't watch my team running plays before our upcoming game." Yet, that's kinda how it is right now in OD's, because of no spectator mode or true scouting reports. So, even if you give up the 1% of time that a team comes out with a new opponent-specific formation, you're still disclosing far less about your offense than you would in real life.

[souljahbill]

The thing is, let's say you do have it written what their formations are, can you really gameplan around that? I mean, what does it matter if we know if they have Ace Big or not? It's not like we can put in the "Ace Big killer" formation or whatnot. You're still gonna look at the personnel and then pick defenses according to that, not the formation.

[jwallace0317]

The thing is, let's say you do have it written what their formations are, can you really gameplan around that? I mean, what does it matter if we know if they have Ace Big or not? It's not like we can put in the "Ace Big killer" formation or whatnot. You're still gonna look at the personnel and then pick defenses according to that, not the formation.

This. That's what I'm getting at. The benefit to knowing the formations would simply be to know the general theme of the offense, which is what you already know now in NCAA 11 when you see what playbook the guy is loading up for your game. So, at its simplest, this is just a way of knowing the same information you know in '11, but in the context of custom playbooks. You're going to prepare a little differently when most of a guy's playbook is taken up with flexbone and wishbone, or primarily ace and I-form, or a guy with lots of gun and spread, but again it's just a general theme of what you may be going up against, nothing more (as you say, there are no "Ace Big Killer" plays, lol).

I don't want to hijack the thread anymore than has already occurred, so if anyone wants to chime in further on the "playbook disclosure" concept, send me a PM so that we don't bog down this thread anymore.

[Cipher 8]

The thing is, let's say you do have it written what their formations are, can you really gameplan around that? I mean, what does it matter if we know if they have Ace Big or not? It's not like we can put in the "Ace Big killer" formation or whatnot. You're still gonna look at the personnel and then pick defenses according to that, not the formation.

This. That's what I'm getting at. The benefit to knowing the formations would simply be to know the general theme of the offense, which is what you already know now in NCAA 11 when you see what playbook the guy is loading up for your game. So, at its simplest, this is just a way of knowing the same information you know in '11, but in the context of custom playbooks. You're going to prepare a little differently when most of a guy's playbook is taken up with flexbone and wishbone, or primarily ace and I-form, or a guy with lots of gun and spread, but again it's just a general theme of what you may be going up against, nothing more (as you say, there are no "Ace Big Killer" plays, lol).

The only problem with that is someone can pick a spread as their base and then fill it with Ace and I-formations and pro style, just saying what it says isn't always what you get with custom playbooks. I'm picking Multiple for that reason alone because I'm assuming most custom playbooks will have a little bit of everything so why not pick Multiple?

I don't want to hijack the thread anymore than has already occurred, so if anyone wants to chime in further on the "playbook disclosure" concept, send me a PM so that we don't bog down this thread anymore.

sorry...

[FoleyLions]

The way I'd do it is they post their style (Pro, Multiple, Spread, ect.) then post a minimum of 7 formations that kinda sum up your base offense preferably your 7 most used formations. Then after ever game post a list of formations you used in that game. That way you have a base of 7 formations that could be used as a team scouting another player's "spring game" and then the rest of the formations will be posted as they are used to serve as "game film" also have other players post summaries of there user vs user games as a sort of scouting report. And institute a "makes sense" rule, so say you have a player whose base 7 is all shotgun then they are limited to shotgun and maybe 1 or 2 under center formations. Basically you have to use your 7 base formations and branch off so if you have a good mix then you can use a good mix but if you are leaning more on a certain type of formation that has to be most of your offense. And the same for defense.

[jwallace0317]

someone can pick a spread as their base and then fill it with Ace and I-formations and pro style

Right. That's why I'm requiring guys in my OD to simply list the names of the formations in their custom playbooks, which has nothing to do with whether their book has a "base" of spread/pro/whatever. I'm not sure who has recommended that guys identify the "base" of their custom playbook (which I indicated earlier was meaningless), but it wasn't me.

[SpreadOption]

I have a playbook question.....in the pistol 4 wr sets, are their any jet sweeps or motion options? Just the pistol 4 wr sets. Thanks.

[ThaShark316]

I have a playbook question.....in the pistol 4 wr sets, are their any jet sweeps or motion options? Just the pistol 4 wr sets. Thanks.

I second this.

[Unconquered]

I second this.

+1. Or is that +3 now?

If Tommy can be persuaded to make another custom playbook video, I'd like to see plays in the following formations:

Pistol 4WR Trips
Pistol Spread
Ace 4WR Trips
Ace Bunch
Ace Bunch Base
Ace F Pair Twins
Ace Panther Trips
Ace Normal
Ace Slot Y Flex
Ace Tight
Ace Tight Slots

[gschwendt]

I'll grab an answer to the Pistol 4WR jet/motion option question but other than that, over the next couple of days I'll be hit or miss so I probably won't be able to dive much further than that.

[Unconquered]

I'll grab an answer to the Pistol 4WR jet/motion option question but other than that, over the next couple of days I'll be hit or miss so I probably won't be able to dive much further than that.

Understood -- but can I twist your arm on the Ace Panther Trips thing? I don't really care about the rest but I'm dying to see that formation in action. I think there are only a dozen plays in it.

[gschwendt]

Understood -- but can I twist your arm on the Ace Panther Trips thing? I don't really care about the rest but I'm dying to see that formation in action. I think there are only a dozen plays in it.

I'll give it a look to give some general impressions but won't likely be able to capture any videos for it.

[Roy38]

I noticed from a UCLA video their Pistol is labeled "Revolver". I was wondering if there were any play differences between their "Revolver" and the normal Pistol.

[Unconquered]

I'll give it a look to give some general impressions but won't likely be able to capture any videos for it.

That would be awesome -- thanks.

[Unconquered]

I noticed from a UCLA video their Pistol is labeled "Revolver". I was wondering if there were any play differences between their "Revolver" and the normal Pistol.

I doubt it. I think they're just personalizing the names to make them feel more specific to the team, the same way Ole Miss's Wildcat formation is called Wild Rebel, and Florida has Heavy Gator, etc.

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

maybe Ricky Neuheisel thinks "revolver" sounds more manly than "pistol"...???

"E"

[SpreadOption]

Thanks a lot man

[gschwendt]

I have a playbook question.....in the pistol 4 wr sets, are their any jet sweeps or motion options? Just the pistol 4 wr sets. Thanks.

Unfortunately (and I'm not sure why) there are no Sweeps or Motion Options in 4WR Pistol formations. The closest you'll be able to do it is Pistol - Slot... it has both Jet Sweep (including PA) and Motion Option.

[gschwendt]

Understood -- but can I twist your arm on the Ace Panther Trips thing? I don't really care about the rest but I'm dying to see that formation in action. I think there are only a dozen plays in it.

There are 7 passes and 5 runs from Ace - Panther Trips. It is largely the same as Y-Trips (other than less plays), however one small wrinkle is that the Power-O has the TE line up on the opposite side of the formation and then motion into place (there's also a PA off this), similar to some of the formations that include a 2nd TE as a Wing.