Community Feedback Discussion

**Oneback** · 09-13-2011, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by bdoughty

Have you ever coded a game of any type? The only reason I mention this is that you are feeding information on how things are done properly but that is the easy part. Taking that information and coding it into a game is a whole different ball game. You are simplifying things by tying them to base attributes. There are layers of code within those attributes that would have to be defined to make additional changes.

It is not as simple as if a WR have a 80 AWR then he will run a incorrect route 1 out of 50 times (and even there you have to be careful with your % to ensure happiness amongst all your customers or create more code by adding new sliders). You have to define what all happens when that one out of fifty times occurs. There has to be code to to tell the player what to do in those instances and even that could be affected other attributes and ratings. The more variables you add within the game the more of a consoles memory you start eating into. You can make the smartest football game in the world that runs as realistic as tonight's game but if a console can't handle it... Even with the best and the brightest working on that game. That is why these companies have people coding new things for next gen systems. Things that are simply not feasible on this gen due to memory and CPU restraints.

More variables for you to ponder over as to why the games sometimes seem to not advance to your liking, as fast as you wish it would.

Again, I completely agree it's not an easy undertaking, just because things aren't easy doesn't mean we shouldn't do them. I understand there is programming needed for variables and variations, again there will have to be thought put into this, no one is saying otherwise.

I'm not even saying they will be able to do it all in one year, but you must start somewhere. Start by putting real assignment football in, I don't even care if everyone does everything right assignment wise on every play with no blown assignments. The ratings system would then take over to create wins and losses. The next year you work on variables and variations and so on and so forth. What you end up with is a rock solid foundation that can be built upon instead of what we have now.

**bdoughty** · 09-13-2011, 12:35 AM

Only time will tell. I was one of those that wished they took last gens games (PS2/Xbox) prettied them up for the 360 and went from there. At the very least we would have all the features from last gen and the concentration could be on improving the AI. Pretty much what 2Ksports did with NBA 2K and my beloved College Hoops.

That said I do not know why this route was taken but not much we can do about it now.

**Oneback** · 09-13-2011, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by morsdraconis

Couldn't have said it better myself, and I have just a rudimentary knowledge of programming languages. The amount of variables in the game now must be in the hundreds of thousands (EA programmers have specifically said before that looking up specific parts of how things work - say, for example, how run blocking footwork/strength work compared to how just the run blocking attribute itself works - are so deeply imbedded in the code, that, some of them, are basically impossible to tell truly what all they effect - This from people that actually PROGRAM THE GAME and have the source code in front of them on a daily basis) with all the different things that they've added. And, yet, all of that absolutely pales in comparison to what is being detailed so easily here.

Again, I say, the amount of work needed to even reach 50% of what is being asked here would take several game cycles to come to fruition. Several game cycles of non-stop working on just it and nothing else. No company has that kind of resources to set aside an entire team to work on something that could take 5 years to code without bringing in some type of money on it. Especially in a market climate where it's highly unlikely that this generation of consoles would still be the best available in that time period, only causing the amount of time spent on the project to be extended as they adapt it for the new tech available.

So we should give them a pass, pat them on the back and say well at least you tried here's some milk and cookies to make you feel better?

Right now they can't get the defense to lineup correctly even half the time.

Listen I am not faulting to programmers I'm sure they work their tail off, but there needs to be a focus by the leadership team to improve gameplay.

**bdoughty** · 09-13-2011, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Oneback

Right now they can't get the defense to lineup correctly even half the time.

Oh for cripes sake. When you make such asinine statements you lose all credibility with me. There should be a forum law that exaggerators, on game forums, should be forced to type out 10 things they like about a game after such nonsense.

**Oneback** · 09-13-2011, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by bdoughty

Oh for cripes sake. When you make such asinine statements you lose all credibility with me. There should be a forum law that exaggerators, on game forums, should be forced to type out 10 things they like about a game after such nonsense.

Ever run the 4-2-5 and try to man align against trips? This has been a problem with the game for years? Why in nickle doesn't the slot corner align on the slot receiver without you having to flip the play? Why can't I call an under front and play an under front without having to flip the play most of the time to align correctly?

Nonsense, really? I'm apart of the community day program and the EA devs will admit there are problems with defensive alignment. One of their devs asked me for a document on the subject and the issue came up several times since January.

**Roy38** · 09-13-2011, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Kwizzy

Ok so I have been EXTREMELY busy lately and have not played any games in weeks so I cannot speak with first hand knowledge of the issues introduced by the 2nd patch. That being said, I would like to address some of the other things being discussed about the community day attendees and what not. Please note that I do not speak for anyone but myself, and I am not addressing these remarks to anyone specific but rather the community as a whole.

I am as disappointed as anyone regarding all of the issues and miscues that have plagued this release. Although I have not experienced some of the issues that others have had (and honest to god, none were experienced before the release of the first patch) the ones I have experienced are more frustrating than words can describe. The continued issues with the patches also, boggle my mind.

Now, as to the perception that I am nothing more than a bought and paid for mouth piece for EA… If I ever feel that EA’s intention in bringing me to the community events was anything other than providing valuable feedback to help improve this game dramatically I would not participate. While I do not refute that they are taking care of expenses in my travel, etc as has been discussed I will tell you that I have made, what for me is a serious sacrifice to take part in these events. This year I was granted 11 vacation days from work, I used 8 of those days on these events. As a result my yearly hunting trip with my dad & grandfather is being skipped, as is my yearly vacation with my constantly busy med-school student fiancé, not to mention the time spent picking little things apart rather than playing the game for enjoyment. I take that commitment on my part very seriously as has EA, and while I don’t expect any sympathy, I will not take anyone seriously who wants to question my commitment & integrity when dealing with EA and the community.

Having gotten all of that out of the way, I think there are several things at work here that need to be considered by the masses. When providing feedback & interacting with the DEVS I have NEVER felt like my feedback was not appreciated and examined. Now I would be lying if I said that I have been completely satisfied with the way my feedback has been incorporated. Also, as I said in other posts, I sometimes wonder how much freedom the devs actually have to incorporate my feedback on some of the larger issues especially and that is something I would like to clarify more before my continued participation. Believe me when I say that I will be speaking with EA to be sure that my time and energy spent is worth it, if I feel that I am banging my head against a brick wall I will not continue to do so. I cannot speak for others in the past or present who feel that their time was wasted. Personally, I can understand why a great deal of my feedback was NOT incorporated this year. I suggested and recommended drastic changes that addressed CORE gameplay issues and therefore are probably NOT going to be able to be dramatically addressed mid dev cycle. My hope is that in making decisions for future titles that these issues and suggestions are incorporated into the decision process as to what will be addressed in the upcoming title and in future releases. If I ever feel that there is no intent for that to be the case, I will not continue to participate. I HAVE NOT participated in the events before this year so I can only base my opinion on my own experiences here. Sorry this got so long-winded.

First, I didn't want to leave you hanging since you posted this. Again, I appreciate the response.

To be clear, I don't have an agenda towards any person involved with these programs or events. Again, I think the concept can be a great idea if used in the fashion it was intended for. However, I have doubts concerning EA's involvement in the program, simple as that.

I notice you guys continue to point out that its a hardship to take time away from work, either by a paid or unpaid leave of absence, to be a part of this program or events. If it's so inconvenient, why go? To me, this goes beyond wanting to improve the game - especially when you consider you aren't receiving any allowances or benefits from EA other than the ones everyone has provided. In essence, why put so much time and effort into something that's not even yours, especially when you don't have the convenient resources to do it?

**Roy38** · 09-13-2011, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Oneback

Ever run the 4-2-5 and try to man align against trips? This has been a problem with the game for years? Why in nickle doesn't the slot corner align on the slot receiver without you having to flip the play? Why can't I call an under front and play an under front without having to flip the play most of the time to align correctly?

Nonsense, really? I'm apart of the community day program and the EA devs will admit there are problems with defensive alignment. One of their devs asked me for a document on the subject and the issue came up several times since January.

You know, at Operation Sports, you'd be gone by now. For that matter, I'd been gone by post #1.

**Oneback** · 09-13-2011, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Roy38

First, I didn't want to leave you hanging since you posted this. Again, I appreciate the response.

To be clear, I don't have an agenda towards any person involved with these programs or events. Again, I think the concept can be a great idea if used in the fashion it was intended for. However, I have doubts concerning EA's involvement in the program, simple as that.

I notice you guys continue to point out that its a hardship to take time away from work, either by a paid or unpaid leave of absence, to be a part of this program or events. If it's so inconvenient, why go? To me, this goes beyond wanting to improve the game - especially when you consider you aren't receiving any allowances or benefits from EA other than the ones everyone has provided. In essence, why put so much time and effort into something that's not even yours, especially when you don't have the convenient resources to do it?

Why did MLK fight for Civil Rights? Why did Ghandi fight for independence?

We want to help make the game better, just as with anything there is always a sacrifice. If I want to pay my bills I must sacrifice my free time and go to work, I've been apart of the NCAA community for eight years now and have contributed to a lot of people gaining a better understanding of the game, I've now focused some of that energy to helping make the game better and hopefully bring a better game to the community.

**morsdraconis** · 09-13-2011, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by bdoughty

My knowledge of programming is limited these days to html and C++. I was old school programming with RPG II (not a game mind you actual code we used for our IBM System/36 setup).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG_II#Sample_Code

I am so old.

Can't say I remember that one.

Dos is probably as far back as I go. Don't know very much of it, but I very much remember it (probably one of the few my age to know and remember it). I tried to learn C++, but I just can't handle all the complicated steps to do something as simple as say Hello World, much less put out something as complicated as a video game.

**bdoughty** · 09-13-2011, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by Oneback

Ever run the 4-2-5 and try to man align against trips? This has been a problem with the game for years? Why in nickle doesn't the slot corner align on the slot receiver without you having to flip the play? Why can't I call an under front and play an under front without having to flip the play most of the time to align correctly?

Half the time is not just a few formations and audibles. That is why I used the term, exaggerate.

Originally Posted by Oneback

Why did MLK fight for Civil Rights? Why did Ghandi fight for independence?

Spoiler: show

**Roy38** · 09-13-2011, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Oneback

Why did MLK fight for Civil Rights? Why did Ghandi fight for independence?

We want to help make the game better, just as with anything there is always a sacrifice. If I want to pay my bills I must sacrifice my free time and go to work, I've been apart of the NCAA community for eight years now and have contributed to a lot of people gaining a better understanding of the game, I've now focused some of that energy to helping make the game better and hopefully bring a better game to the community.

Why did OU hire John Blake to be their head coach?

That's an easy angle to see, but when you give up things that are more important in your life (hardships) just to make someone else millions, where's the draw on that? It's one thing to have the time available and the willingness to see something you'd like to enjoy more, but it's another matter entirely when one of those two are strained. Even after you'd "helped the cause" and you see what has become of your time, where do you draw the line?

You could argue that NCAA '12 is the pinnacle of the series on this current generation of consoles. In some regards, that statement is true. But when you look back at the beginning of the era, back to "Wide Open Gameplay" where you could throw for 1,000 yards in a game and score 20 TD's, you'd could legitimately say that was the one of the worst. Yet, I never had to have a game simmed due a "Transfer Failed" issue (then again after the developers declared this issue was resolved) or have a playbook that was rendered unplayable with "???" in it during that time. To that extent, which game was indeed worse?

Oneback, I respect what you have to offer the community. In fact, you've helped me over the years, but even you have personally stated your doubts - either directly or indirectly by saying you don't know if you'll participate in the future. That's says a lot in your faith in the franchise.

**Oneback** · 09-13-2011, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by bdoughty

Half the time is not just a few formations and audibles. That is why I used the term, exaggerate.

Spoiler: show

Sarcasm detector broken?

**Roy38** · 09-13-2011, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by bdoughty

Half the time is not just a few formations and audibles. That is why I used the term, exaggerate.

Spoiler: show

Translation:

Spoiler: show

**ram29jackson** · 09-13-2011, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by Roy38

You know, at Operation Sports, you'd be gone by now. For that matter, I'd been gone by post #1.

yep, this place isnt run like a cult church, yet still more civil than most

**JBHuskers** · 09-13-2011, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Roy38

You know, at Operation Sports, you'd be gone by now. For that matter, I'd been gone by post #1.

But yet other sites say we censor people

**steelerfan** · 09-13-2011, 08:39 AM

"Apart" means separate from. "A part" has a completely different meaning.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

**Kwizzy** · 09-13-2011, 08:43 AM

Look in no way am I complaining, these events are a great time where I get to meet tons of interesting people, learn about interesting subjects, and provide feedback on a game that I love. I feel very privelaged to be asked to participate. My reason for pointing out the sacrifice was to make it aparent that there is no way in hell that I would continue to make those sacrifices if I felt that my time was being wasted. The second I feel that my feedback is not being considered or that I am wasting my time I will not continue to be involved.

I think it's fairly obvious that I do have some questions at this point about how my feedback is being used, as does Oneback (and some others). But one thing I can assure you is that the devs I have worked with at the events have been very interested in my opinions and input. My questions all reside in how much they are willing (AND ABLE) to change because, as I (and others) said previously, we have suggested some major critiques that would be impossible to implement immediately. To this point, I remain confident that my time is NOT being wasted.

**JBHuskers** · 09-13-2011, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by steelerfan

"Apart" means separate from. "A part" has a completely different meaning.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

Nice pull

**Roy38** · 09-13-2011, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by JBHuskers

But yet other sites say we censor people

Which goes to show the relationship between Utopia and Tailgate isn't imaginary.

**oweb26** · 09-13-2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by I OU a Beatn

Hell, I've personally sent them glitches. I sent them instructions on how to do the goon kick, and I think it's pretty obvious why that would need to be removed. I also sent them instructions on how to perform the disconnect glitch. I sent both of those last year. Guess what's still in the game this year and done the exact same way as the year before.

Originally Posted by I OU a Beatn

I've never sent them videos of anything. I'm not putting in the effort of creating a video for something that is going to fall on deaf ears. Just like the video I made of the game where my opponent had 12 fumbles. I didn't send it to them. If I did, I would've got some remark like "make sure you cover up the ball" or some dumb shit like that. I have to

at you saying "WHY?" As if it's hard to break the game when EA hasn't improved it in years. I can still run the same exact shit I have for years because EA doesn't know how to correctly program the AI without there being times where they will get completely fucked up. Watch the goon kick sometime and tell me it should be in the game.

Unless you were referring to someone other than EA. You said it, I'm just repeating.

Thread: Community Feedback Discussion

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