Community Feedback Discussion

[oweb26]

If you say So IOU. I really don't have anything against either one personally. I will say they both do seemingly take a hell of a lot of time with game and have a good feel for the game, though one does seem like he enjoys getting his internet forum celebrity status ego stroked (that was a joke BTW), and has a pretty obvious bias towards EA, though I dont think it was always there. You post anything about the game he is here and on it, and probably more less in a negative manner. Is the game FUBAR probably, but not everyone is here to play the game in such a serious nature.

What I don't understand about Rhombic and people of his elk, is I joined the other site back in 06 or 05 and he was writing 1 page rants about the game then, here we are in 12 and he is still bitching about the game, is it justified probably, does it make him seem like he doesn't have anything else better to do with his life .......absolutely. Though I haven't seen any 1 page rants in awhile, and onebacks frustration seemingly came more off of frustration than anything else. The main problem is you guys care entirely too damn much about a game. Honestly you guys can never talk about any other gamers...from WOW...to COD players, you guys are just as uptight about this game as they are about those.

Even you, why in the hell would you take valuable time out of your life to send them videos, if in your opinion they aren't going to fix it? Don't feed me that to make the game better BS either. Are you holding out hope? If a girl tells you she will blow you one day are you still going to be asking 6 years later? If you answered yes then continue on arguing futile points, if you wouldn't then let it go. I have seen you numerous times say that "the first thing you do is try to break the game" WHY?? What purpose in the world does that solve besides pissing yourself off. Man you need another hobby if that is fun to you.

EA will never appeal to the hardcore crowd for general purposes I will say the hardcore crowd is roughly 200K, they sold 900K units. You cant even count OS as the hardcore crowd.

I come to this site to just talk about the game share strategies, etc. I am sure its a nice number of us that are here for that same reason, but instead we we get cluster fucked by the entire EA bashing, EA sucks crowd. Let's just face facts, this game will never been anything to a nice number of you guys especially if EA name is attached to it. In order for the game to go anywhere IMO they would have to scrap the entire engine which will not happen on a one year cycle, so we are back to square one with basically patching problems.

Last point/question what is up with this whole Utopia vs TGT imaginary thing going on? (Not directed at you IOU) Why is this site consistently referred to as "failgate" over there and over here they are "the other site"?? If this site is such a "failgate" why do users from over there come over here to complain? I just really don't get it, but I will say its quite amusing helps my work day go by anyway.

[ram29jackson]

I dont think they want major input from people they arent paying. they just want to be told when something isnt working as far as the really basic stuff...basic ,general, football,visual. like what they have testers for in the first place.

They just want to know ,..does third down visually come out to field as 3rd down..does the run play to left,actually go left,are the players following the play diagram...make sure the QB isnt doing a happy dance after being sacked..the correct team is penalized when defense goes off sides etc...they dont give a hoot about line backer 4-3 concepts and safety responsibilities etc in an in depth way

[ram29jackson]

Last point/question what is up with this whole Utopia vs TGT imaginary thing going on? (Not directed at you IOU) Why is this site consistently referred to as "failgate" over there and over here they are "the other site"?? If this site is such a "failgate" why do users from over there come over here to complain? I just really don't get it, but I will say its quite amusing helps my work day go by anyway.

yep, its pretty fascinating and funny LOL...wussy internet ,game liker and game hater, gangs...or something

LOL ...I have to bring up the smiley window to even use smileys all the time now, its getting annoying, i cant just click on them.....?

[Roy38]

I dont think they want major input from people they arent paying. they just want to be told when something isnt working as far as the really basic stuff...basic ,general, football,visual. like what they have testers for in the first place.

They just want to know ,..does third down visually come out to field as 3rd down..does the run play to left,actually go left,are the players following the play diagram...make sure the QB isnt doing a happy dance after being sacked..the correct team is penalized when defense goes off sides etc...they dont give a hoot about line backer 4-3 concepts and safety responsibilities etc in an in depth way

The last I understood, the people they've asked for input aren't paying either as their copies were free, so I would dispute that notion. Maybe you are referring to previously...

My question is why bring them into the loop in the first place if you're not going to use their strengths to improve your product? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some of their suggestions have made it into the title in some way, shape, or form. However, sometimes the best route is being completely honest: "Our current engine isn't capable of doing that at this time, but we'd love to come back to this when we do have the capabilities." Right now, I think that's what the biggest controversy is. The lip-service we are getting from EA doesn't equate to what we are actually receiving.

[mnguy]

Last point/question what is up with this whole Utopia vs TGT imaginary thing going on? (Not directed at you IOU) Why is this site consistently referred to as "failgate" over there and over here they are "the other site"?? If this site is such a "failgate" why do users from over there come over here to complain? I just really don't get it, but I will say its quite amusing helps my work day go by anyway.

I'm a user of both sites, and have been for a while, and imo, it comes down to two very different viewpoints on interactions with EA. I don't think TGT has quite as many "hardcore" users (don't take that the wrong way, but i do see a lot more "i don't use custom playbooks, the graphics are really nice" users here. Not saying their not football fans, just not quite as serious about the game, which is probably a good thing.) but they also have a direct link to EA which they use by providing advice in a, let's say, less straightforward way then Utopia would present it. Utopia thinks that TGT is severely misusing their link to EA, probably making them a bit bitter. Ultimately, it's just two strong viewpoints clashing.

Utopia does have better smilies though.

[ram29jackson]

I'm a user of both sites, and have been for a while, and imo, it comes down to two very different viewpoints on interactions with EA. I don't think TGT has quite as many "hardcore" users (don't take that the wrong way, but i do see a lot more "i don't use custom playbooks, the graphics are really nice" users here. Not saying their not football fans, just not quite as serious about the game, which is probably a good thing.) but they also have a direct link to EA which they use by providing advice in a, let's say, less straightforward way then Utopia would present it. Utopia thinks that TGT is severely misusing their link to EA, probably making them a bit bitter. Ultimately, it's just two strong viewpoints clashing.

Utopia does have better smilies though.

I disagree, I think both sites have a majority that prefer playing a sim game as opposed to guys looking to run and chuck and use exploits etc. U- just thinks its cool to be crass and overbearing. i'm not a harcore football knowledge guy like Mr Longhorn( that is a compliment ) but i know when it doesnt look like realistic football. but yeah, I'll compliment the art,graphic guys for doing a good job.. i like helmets,create a team and the visual side of the game too

[I OU a Beatn]

If you say So IOU. I really don't have anything against either one personally. I will say they both do seemingly take a hell of a lot of time with game and have a good feel for the game, though one does seem like he enjoys getting his internet forum celebrity status ego stroked (that was a joke BTW), and has a pretty obvious bias towards EA, though I dont think it was always there. You post anything about the game he is here and on it, and probably more less in a negative manner. Is the game FUBAR probably, but not everyone is here to play the game in such a serious nature.

In fairness, I'm the same way. I could give you a laundry list of things that I hate about the game. A lot of those issues I'd list would be issues that have existed for years and years and years, and for some reason, have never been taken care of. I'll use the morphing picks as an example. It's been a problem since the PS2 days. I never, ever want to see a player come through another player. I don't care what the issue is, but the fact that it's been in the games for years is absolutely ridiculous. Improved collision > cannons.

What I don't understand about Rhombic and people of his elk, is I joined the other site back in 06 or 05 and he was writing 1 page rants about the game then, here we are in 12 and he is still bitching about the game, is it justified probably, does it make him seem like he doesn't have anything else better to do with his life .......absolutely. Though I haven't seen any 1 page rants in awhile, and onebacks frustration seemingly came more off of frustration than anything else. The main problem is you guys care entirely too damn much about a game. Honestly you guys can never talk about any other gamers...from WOW...to COD players, you guys are just as uptight about this game as they are about those.

I'm not uptight about it. It used to upset me that EA had the exclusive license and wasn't doing anything remotely worthwhile with it, and it still does to a point, but I definitely do not care too much about the game. I want a playable game that isn't loaded with glitches and glaring issues with the gameplay, which is exactly what we currently have and have had for a really long time. EA is a massive company. Continually putting out a game that is just barely improved over the previous version isn't and never will be acceptable.

Even you, why in the hell would you take valuable time out of your life to send them videos, if in your opinion they aren't going to fix it? Don't feed me that to make the game better BS either. Are you holding out hope? If a girl tells you she will blow you one day are you still going to be asking 6 years later? If you answered yes then continue on arguing futile points, if you wouldn't then let it go. I have seen you numerous times say that "the first thing you do is try to break the game" WHY?? What purpose in the world does that solve besides pissing yourself off. Man you need another hobby if that is fun to you.

I've never sent them videos of anything. I'm not putting in the effort of creating a video for something that is going to fall on deaf ears. Just like the video I made of the game where my opponent had 12 fumbles. I didn't send it to them. If I did, I would've got some remark like "make sure you cover up the ball" or some dumb shit like that. I have to at you saying "WHY?" As if it's hard to break the game when EA hasn't improved it in years. I can still run the same exact shit I have for years because EA doesn't know how to correctly program the AI without there being times where they will get completely fucked up. Watch the goon kick sometime and tell me it should be in the game.

I come to this site to just talk about the game share strategies, etc. I am sure its a nice number of us that are here for that same reason, but instead we we get cluster fucked by the entire EA bashing, EA sucks crowd. Let's just face facts, this game will never been anything to a nice number of you guys especially if EA name is attached to it. In order for the game to go anywhere IMO they would have to scrap the entire engine which will not happen on a one year cycle, so we are back to square one with basically patching problems.

It has nothing to do with EA being attached to it. If they create a game that works the way it should, I'll be first in line to congratulate them. I've said numerous times this year that the defense was much improved. However, there is way too many things that are wrong. The fact they KNEW a major ass glitch like the goon kick and the disconnection glitch were there last year and were sent instructions on how to do them and STILL ignored it and allowed them to be ported over to NCAA '12 really piss me off. That's HORRIBLE developing.

Last point/question what is up with this whole Utopia vs TGT imaginary thing going on? (Not directed at you IOU) Why is this site consistently referred to as "failgate" over there and over here they are "the other site"?? If this site is such a "failgate" why do users from over there come over here to complain? I just really don't get it, but I will say its quite amusing helps my work day go by anyway.

I don't pay any attention to it nor do I engage in any of it so I truly don't know.

[Oneback]

I should chime in before things get too twisted. In all honesty I probably have the least room to say EA hasn’t read and implemented my feedback as there are aspects of the improved run blocking that came from notes I brought them and I do have 10 passing plays in the game that I gave them. My biggest frustrations right now center around the general state of the game from release to now due to all the bugs and the fact that after 25 years of making a football game there are still core fundamental parts of the game the current engine just cannot handle: assignment based blocking, defensive alignment and defensive AI that is based upon the fundamental rules of defense instead of chase ball. Notice I have nothing in there about offensive/defensive line interaction, CPU play, a realistic audible system, etc. This is because until the core fundamentals are taken care of the next tier cannot be taken care of either. You’re probably saying right now isn’t line interaction a core fundamental? Yes it is, however until you can get the defense to line up correctly, play the correct way and have assignment based blocking line interaction cannot improve.

Now to circle back to the comment that I believe EA doesn’t listen, that’s not correct. They do listen, however in the end they are going to do things the way they want to do things, that’s how it’s always been up to this point. Now they do listen to our feedback. We’ve gotten features implemented based upon that feedback, we can all argue about the functionality of said features however. Honestly, it’s EA’s choice on how they do things; they are the ones spending the money. Do I hope/wish they would focus on the fundamentals and little things that could take this game to the levels of NBA 2K and MLB in the fans eyes, yes! I’ve been told they are growing the gameplay team, time will tell what impact that has.

I’ve got a laundry list of ideas and improvements that could be made to this game to make it more realistic, user friendly and balanced both against human and CPU opponents, however until the core fundamentals are taken care of there’s no real point in bringing up these other things that will get lost in the shuffle.

I do wish to stay apart of the community day program but I would like to know EA’s future plans for improving the game engine, because like others if the time and effort I spend giving feedback have no hopes of making meaningful changes then the effort will far outweigh the result and that’s not a position I want to be in.

[souljahbill]

The next generation of consoles are probably 3 years away. I know updated graphics will be what makes most people pee in their pants but EA should use the extra power of the systems for A.I. purposes instead of "MOAR GRAFIX!!!!111" Maybe then we can see the changes and features we REALLY want to see as its probably not as possible as we think it is this generation. Hopefully whatever engine they use next console cycle is more physics based then animation based.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Oneback]

The next generation of consoles are probably 3 years away. I know updated graphics will be what makes most people pee in their pants but EA should use the extra power of the systems for A.I. purposes instead of "MOAR GRAFIX!!!!111" Maybe then we can see the changes and features we REALLY want to see as its probably not as possible as we think it is this generation. Hopefully whatever engine they use next console cycle is more physics based then animation based.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Couple things here...look at the other sports games that are successful and held in high regard: NBA 2K and MLB, there isn't a lot of fluff with those games, you don't see those publishers putting a big emphasis on graphics as back of the box features. Then you look under EA's own umbrella and you see FIFA and NHL getting new physics engines implemented this year. If it were up to me I would strip away all the fluff, implement the FIFA and NHL physics engine, and focus on fundamentals. You'd obviously have to keep/improve online and dynasty modes but outside of that every last resource should be focused on improving the core fundamentals of the game. Leave the graphics where they are, they are more than adequate at this point. Once the gameplay is where it should be now 25 years into this process you can then focus on everything else.

[Deuce]

I like to keep things simple and what really matters to me... is the game better with the GC's and CD guys? The answer, without a doubt, is YES.

As far as EA motives...I'm sure their motives are 100% geared towards EA. They basically are getting 'free' consultants. If I was EA I would do the same thing. And if I was the type of person to dissect a football game I would love re opportunity to be a game changer or go to a community event. Its mutally beneficial. Period. People who have a problem with that need to mind there own f'ing business or find a new site.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JBHuskers]

I like to keep things simple and what really matters to me is the game better with GC'd CD guys? The answer, without a doubt, is YES.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And you say this as your 666th post?

[Deuce]

And you say this as your 666th post?

Damn phone! I swear I'm not that incoherent. Maybe after a few martinis later tonight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ram29jackson]

Couple things here...look at the other sports games that are successful and held in high regard: NBA 2K and MLB, there isn't a lot of fluff with those games, you don't see those publishers putting a big emphasis on graphics as back of the box features. Then you look under EA's own umbrella and you see FIFA and NHL getting new physics engines implemented this year. If it were up to me I would strip away all the fluff, implement the FIFA and NHL physics engine, and focus on fundamentals. You'd obviously have to keep/improve online and dynasty modes but outside of that every last resource should be focused on improving the core fundamentals of the game. Leave the graphics where they are, they are more than adequate at this point. Once the gameplay is where it should be now 25 years into this process you can then focus on everything else.

I kind of disagree..there is alot of fluff in NBA and MLB but they do it right and well along with decent core gameplay..but yeah, they dont brag about cool looking grass or something. Madden doesnt have cool looking grass and the visuals are still stunning

[souljahbill]

Couple things here...look at the other sports games that are successful and held in high regard: NBA 2K and MLB, there isn't a lot of fluff with those games, you don't see those publishers putting a big emphasis on graphics as back of the box features. Then you look under EA's own umbrella and you see FIFA and NHL getting new physics engines implemented this year. If it were up to me I would strip away all the fluff, implement the FIFA and NHL physics engine, and focus on fundamentals. You'd obviously have to keep/improve online and dynasty modes but outside of that every last resource should be focused on improving the core fundamentals of the game. Leave the graphics where they are, they are more than adequate at this point. Once the gameplay is where it should be now 25 years into this process you can then focus on everything else.

To be fair, football HAS to be the absolute hardest mainstream sport to program correctly. To have 22 players think and react like a real person would/should seems a lot to expect, no matter how many people are on the gameplay team. Nothing wrong with shooting for the moon and asking for nothing but the absolute best but realistically, with the time and budget crunch, only so much can done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ram29jackson]

To be fair, football HAS to be the absolute hardest mainstream sport to program correctly. To have 22 players think and react like a real person would/should seems a lot to expect, no matter how many people are on the gameplay team. Nothing wrong with shooting for the moon and asking for nothing but the absolute best but realistically, with the time and budget crunch, only so much can done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would say ,Basketball is harder, players have to keep moving..football plays are shorter and a simple diagram is followed- pass routes etc

[Deuce]

To be fair, football HAS to be the absolute hardest mainstream sport to program correctly. To have 22 players think and react like a real person would/should seems a lot to expect, no matter how many people are on the gameplay team. Nothing wrong with shooting for the moon and asking for nothing but the absolute best but realistically, with the time and budget crunch, only so much can done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JeffHCross]

Again, it was an oversight on my part. I immediately saw this website's owner and co-founders names, so I directed my attention towards them. Also, as you pointed out earlier, I didn't ask for your response. To that end, I didn't ask Paakaa either, but he decided to step in for some quality dialogue while you chose to beat your chest. Now, had you chosen the path to communicate, we'd be having a different conversation.

Again, I believed I was left out for a reason. A simple miscommunication, that's all.

[Oneback]

To be fair, football HAS to be the absolute hardest mainstream sport to program correctly. To have 22 players think and react like a real person would/should seems a lot to expect, no matter how many people are on the gameplay team. Nothing wrong with shooting for the moon and asking for nothing but the absolute best but realistically, with the time and budget crunch, only so much can done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While football does have 22 players each of those players have a set of highly detailed rules on each play.

Let's go over the rules for a WR running a simple 7-route (Corner) against a 3-deep zone defense for example:

- Burst off the line of scrimmage using an inside-seam release.
- On your fourth step, plant your inside foot at a 45-degree angle parallel to the sideline and snap your head and hips upfield into a vertical stem.
- Accelerate to threaten deep.
- At eight yards, break to the post with a pressure step.
- It is important to break at eight yards to the post (instead of 12 yards) so that you don't run into the defensive back when you break to the corner. If you were to break to the post at 12 yards, a very good chance exists that you will run into the defensive back when he comes out of his corner break because the cushion has been broken down.
- On your third stride, use a pressure step (your inside foot) and break to the corner as you snap your head to the quarterback and accelerate out of your break.
- If a defender is on top of you at the break flatten out to the sideline, if the defender is even accelerate to the corner.

Pretty detailed, yes?

I'd be glad to go over all the rules for aligning a defense, a DT facing a double-team or the technique a center need to play with when the backside guard is pulling across the formation and the down lineman is in a 3-tech. The point being is that everything in football is assignment based, coaches grade and decide who plays based upon assignments.

If there is one thing I know about programming is that everything is rules based (read assignment) so don't give me there are 22 players on the field argument.

[JeffHCross]

Just because it's rules based doesn't mean it's simple to program, though. And 22 players (especially the defensive side of the ball) is considerably harder to program than a lot of game AI, even other sports games.