Xbox One - November 22, 2013

[bdoughty]

I didn't watch the video but the ranting version of this guy is 100% an act. His real persona comes across as very intelligent and well-spoken.

Yep, he fooled me the first time I saw him, then I saw a video with his normal voice.

He also has a descent looking girlfriend.

http://oi44.tinypic.com/ibifqt.jpg

I imagine missionary is not an option.

[SmoothPancakes]

I imagine missionary is not an option.

I'll be a team player and fill in for him if she wants some missionary. :D

[JBHuskers]

I'll be a team player and fill in for him if she wants some missionary. :D

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/527/245/26e.gif

[steelerfan]

It's not all party hats and hand jobs over here.

:D :D :D

Great line! :nod:

I'm using Tapatalk 2 and the Cleveland Browns STILL suck.

[CLW]

Interesting that the no online DRM requires online for a day one update to the software. Hopefully, not too many people without internet will buy this not knowing about the previous DRM.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/19/xbox-one-will-require-day-one-update

[SCClassof93]

That is hilarious if true. Means the used game complaint goes out the window, as does rental worries.

Actually it means the complaint (and lower than expected pre-orders) worked and necessitated a change by MS :up:

[SCClassof93]

Actually this may sway to x1 first instead of the ps4. Again the only exclussive on ps4 was MLB the show and I can live with out that for know.

http://media.tumblr.com/e98b9fcb8fe2d974ebd3a335ff84cb8e/tumblr_inline_mg3i7tRa8I1rt1rl9.gif

[gschwendt]

Honestly, I think it largely comes down to Microsoft still being a bit greedy/nervous of digital distribution. Had they first announced "we're going to let you trade-in your digital games to us, you'll be able to rent digital games from us and wait, there's more... digital copies of AAA titles will now be $10 cheaper than physical copies" along side when they first announced the DRM, everyone would have said "yay Microsoft for being ahead of the curve". Instead, MS is trying to have their cake and eat it too... they're trying to be the RIAA of video games and want to take away capabilities while not giving the user very much added benefit.

All of that tacked onto the $100 more and the required Kinect just made folks leery of buying the XBox One.

[psuexv]

Now this is gone

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNKD-o2CIAEnSce.jpg:large

[cdj]

Now this is gone

I don't think that chart is completely honest or accurate. If people thought one friend could buy one copy of Madden 25 or Call of Duty: Ghosts so nine others could enjoy it as well, that is delusional. There was some 'catch' with that we were not privy to. Again, lack of proper communication from Microsoft.

[gschwendt]

I don't think that chart is completely honest or accurate. If people thought one friend could buy one copy of Madden 25 or Call of Duty: Ghosts so nine others could enjoy it as well, that is delusional. There was some 'catch' with that we were not privy to. Again, lack of proper communication from Microsoft.
The only catch that I heard was that the original user could play it at any time whereas only one of his friends could play it at a time. So if I buy the game, I can share it and not worry about losing access. However, if I shared it with psuexv and cdj tried to play it, he wouldn't be allowed to until psuexv finished with it.

[AustinWolv]

I thought it was like what G said. And it could only be shared to cdj that one time, and once shared that psuexv couldn't get it back. Basically, the game was "given" away.
But I could be wrong.

[I OU a Beatn]

It was the original owner and one of the family members at the same time. Say Austin and G are my family members. I could play the game any time I wanted no matter what. If Austin was also playing, then G couldn't. However, as soon as Austin stopped playing that particular game, G could then start playing.

The part where you gave a game away and never got it back was the game trading they were going to do, the family sharing thing was different.

[gschwendt]

Call me CLW if you must but I had to share this... NMATV's take on the XBox One-80


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tRJ97ZeK_BQ

[SCClassof93]

Call me CLW if you must but I had to share this... NMATV's take on the XBox One-80


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tRJ97ZeK_BQ

:D

[JBHuskers]

So the moral of that story is. With yesterday's announcement, that put lipstick on a pile of shit?

[SCClassof93]

So the moral of that story is. With yesterday's announcement, that put lipstick on a pile of shit?

:D:D:D

I won't go that far, I am open to buying one but I am going to wait awhile and see what happens. Two launch day ps4's coming my way in contrast:nod:

[JBHuskers]

Yep, he fooled me the first time I saw him, then I saw a video with his normal voice.

He also has a descent looking girlfriend.

http://oi44.tinypic.com/ibifqt.jpg

I imagine missionary is not an option.

Can you find anything other than a neck down shot of her? If not, she's hiding a wide load :D

[CLW]

So the moral of that story is. With yesterday's announcement, that put lipstick on a pile of shit?

NO the moral of the story is..... CLW = RIGHT IOU = WRONG.

The console war of CLW v. IOU was won the second Sony announced it at E3 and the crowd went NUTS (just as I said). Took a week for MS to get off the mat from the knockout punch.

CLW wins debate re: DRM versus IOU end of story. :nod:

[AustinWolv]

The console battle of CLW v. IOU was won
Fixed it.
War is far from over. Numbers at the next-gen jump will determine who won the war.
:P

[I OU a Beatn]

NO the moral of the story is..... CLW = RIGHT IOU = WRONG.

The console war of CLW v. IOU was won the second Sony announced it at E3 and the crowd went NUTS (just as I said). Took a week for MS to get off the mat from the knockout punch.

CLW wins debate re: DRM versus IOU end of story. :nod:

I don't see how that has anything to do with used games, which is what I was arguing about. My argument of "if a publisher blocks used games on one system, they're going to do it on the other) still very much stands. They're still more than capable of locking a game behind a serial code on both systems. As I've said a million times before, Microsoft and Sony have absolutely no say in what publishers decide to do with their games. Sony may put on a show and use it as an easy way to win E3 with no games, but if a publisher wants to block them, Sony has no power to stop them. Neither does Microsoft.

The absolutely ONLY difference now is that Microsoft doesn't have a system in place, so publishers will have to use their own. Same thing on Sony's system.

The only other thing you could have won was which console would sell better, and no one is going to win that one because thanks to Microsoft backing down like a little you know what, we'll never know.

I definitely never argued about whether or not Microsoft would completely change their policies and turn their console I was looking forward to into a 360 v2, which is all that came out of this.

[JBHuskers]

It was the original owner and one of the family members at the same time. Say Austin and G are my family members. I could play the game any time I wanted no matter what. If Austin was also playing, then G couldn't. However, as soon as Austin stopped playing that particular game, G could then start playing.

The part where you gave a game away and never got it back was the game trading they were going to do, the family sharing thing was different.

So if Austin was playing your owned game and you decided it's time to play, you'd basically boot him out of it?

[Kingpin32]

I don't see how that has anything to do with used games, which is what I was arguing about. My argument of "if a publisher blocks used games on one system, they're going to do it on the other) still very much stands. They're still more than capable of locking a game behind a serial code on both systems. As I've said a million times before, Microsoft and Sony have absolutely no say in what publishers decide to do with their games. Sony may put on a show and use it as an easy way to win E3 with no games, but if a publisher wants to block them, Sony has no power to stop them. Neither does Microsoft.

The absolutely ONLY difference now is that Microsoft doesn't have a system in place, so publishers will have to use their own. Same thing on Sony's system.

The only other thing you could have won was which console would sell better, and no one is going to win that one because thanks to Microsoft backing down like a little you know what, we'll never know.

I definitely never argued about whether or not Microsoft would completely change their policies and turn their console I was looking forward to into a 360 v2, which is all that came out of this.

After seeing all the backlash that has come from the DRM debacle, do you really think a publisher would come out and say "hey we're still gonna have DRM on our games?" EA has pretty much solidified that they aren't gonna bring back online codes.

[SCClassof93]

After seeing all the backlash that has come from the DRM debacle, do you really think a publisher would come out and say "hey we're still gonna have DRM on our games?" EA has pretty much solidified that they aren't gonna bring back online codes.
"
Hopefully they will see that the market does NOT support this practice and won't go this route. However, I know some will bend over and say "I gotta play x", but if most say, "nope I will pass and support something else", you won't see much DRM. Now, drop my game to $40 and you can DRM away would be a good move :D

[AustinWolv]

So if Austin was playing your owned game and you decided it's time to play, you'd basically boot him out of it?

No, because I'd send dog ninjas after him. :)

[SmoothPancakes]

So if Austin was playing your owned game and you decided it's time to play, you'd basically boot him out of it?

No. OU (as the owner) can play whenever he wants. Austin (if no one else but OU is playing) can jump on at anytime and fire up the game. But if you got online an hour later and both OU and Austin were still playing the same game from OU family share deal, you'd have to wait until Austin stopped playing the game before you could fire it up off of OU's family share stuff.

The owner can (or could now) play day or night, any time he wanted. Everyone else, there could only be one playing at the same time as OU, everyone else had to wait.

[CLW]

I don't see how that has anything to do with used games, which is what I was arguing about. My argument of "if a publisher blocks used games on one system, they're going to do it on the other) still very much stands. They're still more than capable of locking a game behind a serial code on both systems. As I've said a million times before, Microsoft and Sony have absolutely no say in what publishers decide to do with their games. Sony may put on a show and use it as an easy way to win E3 with no games, but if a publisher wants to block them, Sony has no power to stop them. Neither does Microsoft.

The absolutely ONLY difference now is that Microsoft doesn't have a system in place, so publishers will have to use their own. Same thing on Sony's system.

The only other thing you could have won was which console would sell better, and no one is going to win that one because thanks to Microsoft backing down like a little you know what, we'll never know.

I definitely never argued about whether or not Microsoft would completely change their policies and turn their console I was looking forward to into a 360 v2, which is all that came out of this.

http://i.minus.com/ibcj6IIHES2ffw.gif

[I OU a Beatn]

So if Austin was playing your owned game and you decided it's time to play, you'd basically boot him out of it?

No. The owner is always allowed to play no matter what. Say I bought a game, Austin, G, and JB are my 3 family members. I want to play Call of Duty, so I start it up. G sees me playing and starts it up. We are both able to play. Say Austin sees us playing and wants to use a shared copy. He can not until G stops playing, and then Austin can play it. Once Austin stops, then JB can play it. However, if I stop, only one of the 3 family members can still play it.

Basically, only the owner AND one of the family members can be playing at one time. It was a REALLY good idea and I'm sorely disappointed they removed it.


After seeing all the backlash that has come from the DRM debacle, do you really think a publisher would come out and say "hey we're still gonna have DRM on our games?" EA has pretty much solidified that they aren't gonna bring back online codes.

EA said they were discontinuing the online pass. That's a little bit different than locking a game behind a serial code like a PC game. Do you think it's coincidence EA announced the end of their online passes right around the time Microsoft announced their system? I don't. It may not happen right away, but it will most certainly happen eventually.


"
Hopefully they will see that the market does NOT support this practice and won't go this route. However, I know some will bend over and say "I gotta play x", but if most say, "nope I will pass and support something else", you won't see much DRM. Now, drop my game to $40 and you can DRM away would be a good move :D

The market does support the practice. PC games are doing just fine. Diablo 3 sold a shit ton of copies and it was behind the one use serial code. A few hundred/thousand whiny babies on the internet does not even begin to equate for the entire gaming community that would be more than willing to purchase a game that requires a serial code to be entered.

[cdj]

This is from another "anonymous" Xbox One dev.....He/she says family sharing was actually basically a time trial (http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read).

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library. Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world. There was never any catch to that, they didn’t have to share the same billing address or physical address it could be anyone. When your family member accesses any of your games, they’re placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game. We were toying around with a limit on the number of times members could access the shared game (as to discourage gamers from simply beating the game by doing multiple playthroughs). but we had not settled on an appropriate way of handling it.

[CLW]

No. The owner is always allowed to play no matter what. Say I bought a game, Austin, G, and JB are my 3 family members. I want to play Call of Duty, so I start it up. G sees me playing and starts it up. We are both able to play. Say Austin sees us playing and wants to use a shared copy. He can not until G stops playing, and then Austin can play it. Once Austin stops, then JB can play it. However, if I stop, only one of the 3 family members can still play it.

Basically, only the owner AND one of the family members can be playing at one time. It was a REALLY good idea and I'm sorely disappointed they removed it.



EA said they were discontinuing the online pass. That's a little bit different than locking a game behind a serial code like a PC game. Do you think it's coincidence EA announced the end of their online passes right around the time Microsoft announced their system? I don't. It may not happen right away, but it will most certainly happen eventually.



The market does support the practice. PC games are doing just fine. Diablo 3 sold a shit ton of copies and it was behind the one use serial code. A few hundred/thousand whiny babies on the internet does not even begin to equate for the entire gaming community that would be more than willing to purchase a game that requires a serial code to be entered.

If all that were true then why did MS do the 180? If it's such a great idea that consumers/gamers will love: (1) Explain it; (2) Promote it; and (3) Destroy Sony with DRM.

[CLW]

This is from another "anonymous" Xbox One dev.....He/she says family sharing was actually basically a time trial (http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read).

First is family sharing, this feature is near and dear to me and I truly felt it would have helped the industry grow and make both gamers and developers happy. The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library. Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world. There was never any catch to that, they didn’t have to share the same billing address or physical address it could be anyone. When your family member accesses any of your games, they’re placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game. We were toying around with a limit on the number of times members could access the shared game (as to discourage gamers from simply beating the game by doing multiple playthroughs). but we had not settled on an appropriate way of handling it.

So basically its the PS+ timed trial. LMAO. Yeah that is NO WHERE near as good as exchanging games with friends via the simple 1 step solution that has been around since the dawn of console gaming:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA

EDIT: there are a NUMBER of quotes in that article that are just HILARIOUS and either (1) the person is "spinning" for his/her company; (2) they are not shall I say the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I tend to believe its the former or they are sippin' the koolaid.

[I OU a Beatn]

If all that were true then why did MS do the 180? If it's such a great idea that consumers/gamers will love: (1) Explain it; (2) Promote it; and (3) Destroy Sony with DRM.

If what were true? That customers are willing to buy games behind a serial code? Diablo 3 sold 7 million copies the last I checked, and it was behind a code and you had to be connected 24 hours. People just like to bitch. Take for example this recent Microsoft thing. People bitched and moaned all day about the 24 hour check thing. Then, Microsoft gets rid of it, so people are happy, right? Nope, now they're bitching and moaning because Microsoft flipped flopped. Listening to people on the internet is a no win situation, because the vast majority of them are simply trolls.

They could have sold the Xbox One with a constant internet connection requirement, serial keys for unlock the game, and an armed guard at your door to confiscate used games if you purchased them and people would still buy it.

Just like the naive people I've read around the internet the past month who think just because Sony and Microsoft don't have systems in place that publishers aren't capable/willing to block used games. :D

Honestly, I hope they don't, however, the writing is on the wall. Just like the writing was on the wall for Sony charging for online access. It's going to happen. It might not happen with this generation of consoles (I think it will), but I guarantee you it will certainly happen with the next.

[SCClassof93]

No. The owner is always allowed to play no matter what. Say I bought a game, Austin, G, and JB are my 3 family members. I want to play Call of Duty, so I start it up. G sees me playing and starts it up. We are both able to play. Say Austin sees us playing and wants to use a shared copy. He can not until G stops playing, and then Austin can play it. Once Austin stops, then JB can play it. However, if I stop, only one of the 3 family members can still play it.

Basically, only the owner AND one of the family members can be playing at one time. It was a REALLY good idea and I'm sorely disappointed they removed it.



EA said they were discontinuing the online pass. That's a little bit different than locking a game behind a serial code like a PC game. Do you think it's coincidence EA announced the end of their online passes right around the time Microsoft announced their system? I don't. It may not happen right away, but it will most certainly happen eventually.



The market does support the practice. PC games are doing just fine. Diablo 3 sold a shit ton of copies and it was behind the one use serial code. A few hundred/thousand whiny babies on the internet does not even begin to equate for the entire gaming community that would be more than willing to purchase a game that requires a serial code to be entered.

I think the pc gaming market while there may be overlap is a different market from console gaming.

[I OU a Beatn]

It may be, but I don't think it's that much different. Besides, let me ask you this: what do you think customers are going to do when consoles inevitably get rid of physical media and rely solely upon digital distribution. It's definitely happening next gen because digital distribution is much cheaper for the publisher, and as doughty noted yesterday, it also eliminates the used game markets and ensures a copy be purchased new to be played.

Microsoft should have just stuck to their guns and gone through with it.

[CLW]

It may be, but I don't think it's that much different. Besides, let me ask you this: what do you think customers are going to do when consoles inevitably get rid of physical media and rely solely upon digital distribution. It's definitely happening next gen because digital distribution is much cheaper for the publisher, and as doughty noted yesterday, it also eliminates the used game markets and ensures a copy be purchased new to be played.

Microsoft should have just stuck to their guns and gone through with it.

There aren't going to be consoles when that happens. It will all be in the cloud and you will pay a subscription fee to use "Sony's" (or whoever's) service.

Customers won't be buying a physical product so they will have to decide which company's terms of service are best for them.

However, all gens including the next one revolve around the purchase of physical products. As such, consumers expect/demand the ability to trade the physical products they bought on the open market.

MS would have "stuck to their guns" if the writing wasn't on the wall and obvious to everyone but you that they were going to lose the console battle to Sony the only ? was by how much.

[GatorfanStovy]

Screw the digital download. I like my hard copies of games!

[Kingpin32]

There's always gonna be a retail market. Even if games are offered cheaper as a digital property, retail and physical media is still gonna be there. Everybody aren't able to download a 20-40 GB game. (I say that not knowing the size of the average game)

[SmoothPancakes]

Screw the digital download. I like my hard copies of games!

Well, you're going to be SOL after 2020. Outside of buying online, it's almost impossible to find physical copies of PC games in brick and mortar stores. It's either buy them online from Amazon, etc., or download them. The next generation of video gaming (whenever it comes around after 2020) will almost all but likely be 100% digital.

[SmoothPancakes]

There's always gonna be a retail market. Even if games are offered cheaper as a digital property, retail and physical media is still gonna be there. Everybody aren't able to download a 20-40 GB game. (I say that not knowing the size of the average game)

For me on Xbox, the standard game averages 1.5 to 4 GB. The really big games (GTA, RDR, etc) can run upwards of 7 or 8 GB.

[I OU a Beatn]

MS would have "stuck to their guns" if the writing wasn't on the wall and obvious to everyone but you that they were going to lose the console battle to Sony the only ? was by how much.

:D

Based on what? Early order numbers? The PS4 is $100 less and the Xbox One was STILL selling out. We have absolutely no idea who would have won if Microsoft had kept their policies. I'm not going to have a hypothetical argument with you. Unfortunately, due to Microsoft's lack of a backbone, we'll never know who would have won that battle. Only someone wearing Sony or Microsoft goggles can declare "victory" before the systems have even launched. I'm not going to pretend to know how well each one would have done, but it wouldn't have been a massive difference either way. Microsoft has way too much of a stranglehold on America not to be a key player.

There will still be consoles, it'll just be based completely on digital distribution and the cloud. It wont be cloud exclusive because of the fact internet still probably wont be consistent and fast enough to stream full games, but I would be absolutely shocked if PS5 and Xbox whatever had physical drives, which means consumers better get ready for not being able to trade in games.

[SCClassof93]

It may be, but I don't think it's that much different. Besides, let me ask you this: what do you think customers are going to do when consoles inevitably get rid of physical media and rely solely upon digital distribution. It's definitely happening next gen because digital distribution is much cheaper for the publisher, and as doughty noted yesterday, it also eliminates the used game markets and ensures a copy be purchased new to be played.

Microsoft should have just stuck to their guns and gone through with it.

But it is exactly what is different in them at this time that we are discussing :D. As far as speculating on the future I will leave that to folks more qualified in fortune telling than me :D

[SCClassof93]

:D

Based on what? Early order numbers? The PS4 is $100 less and the Xbox One was STILL selling out. We have absolutely no idea who would have won if Microsoft had kept their policies. I'm not going to have a hypothetical argument with you. Unfortunately, due to Microsoft's lack of a backbone, we'll never know who would have won that battle. Only someone wearing Sony or Microsoft goggles can declare "victory" before the systems have even launched. I'm not going to pretend to know how well each one would have done, but it wouldn't have been a massive difference either way. Microsoft has way too much of a stranglehold on America not to be a key player.

There will still be consoles, it'll just be based completely on digital distribution and the cloud. It wont be cloud exclusive because of the fact internet still probably wont be consistent and fast enough to stream full games, but I would be absolutely shocked if PS5 and Xbox whatever had physical drives, which means consumers better get ready for not being able to trade in games.

Based on MS being intelligent enough to see that physical orders (market response) were not what they wanted?

You also start this post correctly stating that it is impossible for us to have knowledge of counterfactuals, but you then claim to have counterfactual knowledge.:D Which is it :dunno:

[CLW]

IGN Best of XBox E3 Awards:


Best Game - Titanfall
360 Game - Arkham Origins
Best Coop - Payday2
Best Reason to Keep 360 - Splinter Cell
Best Use of Smart Glass - The Division
Most Disappointing - Black Tusk


http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/20/e3-2013-igns-best-of-xbox-awards

[JBHuskers]

I don't think I have ever heard of Black Tusk until now :D

[I OU a Beatn]

Based on MS being intelligent enough to see that physical orders (market response) were not what they wanted?

You also start this post correctly stating that it is impossible for us to have knowledge of counterfactuals, but you then claim to have counterfactual knowledge.:D Which is it :dunno:

If they wanted to improve early sales numbers, they would've dropped the price. Most people aren't like us and read this stuff about always online and used games. The thing that has Sony in the lead right now is mostly the $100 difference, just like why the 360 sold so much better early in the generation.

It's both. I'm not going to pretend to know which one would have won, which is what I said. That's impossible to tell, and like I said, only someone wearing fan goggles for one company would predict a victory before the systems even launched. I also said that it would be close in sales regardless. I wasn't predicting a winner, just making a point that the days of one company dominating the console sales like the PS2 are pretty much over, and regardless of who "wins," the race for the most sales is going to be close enough that neither one of these companies will care.


I don't think I have ever heard of Black Tusk until now :D

Not a game, one of Microsoft's first party studios that's supposedly working on a AAA game. They only showed a teaser, though, so I guess that's why they were disappointed.

[CLW]

Based on MS being intelligent enough to see that physical orders (market response) were not what they wanted?

You also start this post correctly stating that it is impossible for us to have knowledge of counterfactuals, but you then claim to have counterfactual knowledge.:D Which is it :dunno:


I disagree. I think anyone without "fan goggles" knows that MS saw the writing on the wall and KNEW it was defeated with its current XB1 versus the current PS4 and so they decided to drop the thing/difference that would help them the most DRM to try to close the gap.

I think it has LONG been noted that I predicted Sony would go the route they went and would CRUSH MS b/c of it. I think a 180 in a week constitutes a "crush" again unless you are wearing those "fan goggles"


If they wanted to improve early sales numbers, they would've dropped the price. Most people aren't like us and read this stuff about always online and used games. The thing that has Sony in the lead right now is mostly the $100 difference, just like why the 360 sold so much better early in the generation.

It's both. I'm not going to pretend to know which one would have won, which is what I said. That's impossible to tell, and like I said, only someone wearing fan goggles for one company would predict a victory before the systems even launched. I also said that it would be close in sales regardless. I wasn't predicting a winner, just making a point that the days of one company dominating the console sales like the PS2 are pretty much over, and regardless of who "wins," the race for the most sales is going to be close enough that neither one of these companies will care.



Not a game, one of Microsoft's first party studios that's supposedly working on a AAA game. They only showed a teaser, though, so I guess that's why they were disappointed.

You don't have to pretend who would have won MS' change is an admission that they could not win the next gen console war with DRM. They have said it wasn't the price affecting the sales it was customer demand for no DRM.

So either you concede MS is right (something you usually do) or they are now magically liars b/c it goes against the arguments you have been making forever now and were proven wrong as time has passed?

[I OU a Beatn]

Okay, so with Microsoft removing the restrictions, they should start to close the gaps on orders with your theory, right? It was several days ago that they changed their policies, and yet no change. They're still getting outsold by 50%, if not more. So why is that, if it's like you say and totally dependent upon the restrictions?

Face it, most customers do not care about having to be online every 24 hours or used games. Why? Because they don't even know about it. You, me, and the other people who really get into this stuff do, but at retail for the people who don't, the absolutely only thing on the planet that is affecting their decision is the $100 price difference. Plain and simple.

[JBHuskers]

Okay, so with Microsoft removing the restrictions, they should start to close the gaps on orders with your theory, right? It was several days ago that they changed their policies, and yet no change. They're still getting outsold by 50%, if not more. So why is that, if it's like you say and totally dependent upon the restrictions?

Face it, most customers do not care about having to be online every 24 hours or used games. Why? Because they don't even know about it. You, me, and the other people who really get into this stuff do, but at retail for the people who don't, the absolutely only thing on the planet that is affecting their decision is the $100 price difference. Plain and simple.

I sorta get what you're saying, but the majority of people preordering right now are those people who cared about that stuff and followed it closely. The general consumer will not think about a preorder until it smacks them in the face later in the fall.

[Kingpin32]

Okay, so with Microsoft removing the restrictions, they should start to close the gaps on orders with your theory, right? It was several days ago that they changed their policies, and yet no change. They're still getting outsold by 50%, if not more. So why is that, if it's like you say and totally dependent upon the restrictions?

Face it, most customers do not care about having to be online every 24 hours or used games. Why? Because they don't even know about it. You, me, and the other people who really get into this stuff do, but at retail for the people who don't, the absolutely only thing on the planet that is affecting their decision is the $100 price difference. Plain and simple.

I actually think the main reason why their being outsold is because they seem to have a lesser supply at the moment. I remember reading an article where pretty much Gamestop sold all their XB1 preorders. As much as I think you're right about that $100 difference I also think that MS has some type of research that shows that their most loyal fans would still be projected to purchase the XB1. That's the price of familiarity. For $100 less are some people willing to abandon the years of effort and buddies they made, only to do it again on a brand new system? Speaking for myself, if the PS4 was the same price as the XB1 is now, I still may have preordered it.

[Escobar]

Reading that article the XBOX employee posted made my head hurt. That is what's wrong with these big corporations, they make sugarless kool-aid that taste like shit and think they can force everyone to like it. :smh: It's funny how he tries to spin everything his way especially finishing by calling PS4 XBOX 360-2, when their family share plan was basically PS+ 1 hour free trial but with less time and more restrictions LMAO.

And to point to the CLW vs IOU argument, PS4 was definitely winning based on their policies. The week after E3 we had a few customers come into the store to get more information on both consoles before they even thought about preordering. One guy (about 35-40) stood out to me because before I even started explaining the consoles to him he said he had a group of friends he always played 360 with but now most of them are switching to the PS4 next gen so he wanted to get some information. I objectively stated the facts to him, didn't point out any differences between the consoles. He wanted to know about the XBOX ONE first so I laid everything out to him and the more details I told him the more I could see in his face he was getting disappointed. Then eventually he said "so we're basically getting screwed all around by Microsoft huh" and I busted out laughing, and this was after I explained the family plan thing to him. Then I explained the PS4 to him and he thanked me for the info and said he was gonna do some more research but will most likely get a PS4.

He hated the 24 hour online check-in thing, because his first question was immediately "what if my internet goes down?" Microsoft has already lost more than it can recoup. The only people that know they changed their policies now are people who browse forums on the internet. There is a reason they say the first impression means everything.

I OU the pc gaming community is completely different than the console gaming community. Many people don't care about having to be connected 24/7 on pc games, because their pc's are already connected 24/7 same as cell phones. You are trying to use the argument that got that guy fired from Microsoft on twitter. Alot of console gamers just want to insert the disc and start playing their games.

[SCClassof93]

Every client, colleague, and friend I know that has kids and could well afford both systems at launch is passing on the Xbox this go around. When I ask why I get the same reason I am passing at launch.....policies. As I stated earlier, I may get an xbox down the road but I am taking a wait and see approach for now. Without the DRM proposed will publishers be let out of "exclusive agreements? These are things I want to see play out.

[CLW]

The week after E3 we had a few customers come into the store to get more information on both consoles before they even thought about preordering.

I didn't know you worked at a game store in Houston Escobar. At your store what's the ratio (approximately) of pre-orders for PS4 v. XB1. Has there been a noticeable "shift" since the "180" announcement?

[I OU a Beatn]

I don't have to argue anything. What I'm saying is 100% indisputable fact. Before the policy changes the PS4 was outselling the One by 50% After the policy changes, the PS4 is still being outsold by 50%. Obviously, if the 24 hour check was such a huge factor for people, that number would have changed. What's the constant then? The $100 price difference.

As King said, it's also a known fact that Microsoft has been limiting orders because they started much later than Sony and will not be able to match the supply numbers that Sony is going to be able to do, hence why most GS stores are taking twice or 3 times as many orders for the PS over the Xbox.

To say Sony is winning right now because of the DRM is just asinine, IMO. It's the exact same example as the people who bitch about NCAA year in and year out. Madden, too. If you'd go by what the internet is saying, EA might as well just pack up their shit and call it a day. Meanwhile, both games are selling millions of copies. :D

Sony is winning because of the price difference and supply numbers, not because of some people on the internet angry about having to connect every 24 hours.

[SCClassof93]

I don't have to argue anything. What I'm saying is 100% indisputable fact. Before the policy changes the PS4 was outselling the One by 50% After the policy changes, the PS4 is still being outsold by 50%. Obviously, if the 24 hour check was such a huge factor for people, that number would have changed. What's the constant then? The $100 price difference.

As King said, it's also a known fact that Microsoft has been limiting orders because they started much later than Sony and will not be able to match the supply numbers that Sony is going to be able to do, hence why most GS stores are taking twice or 3 times as many orders for the PS over the Xbox.

To say Sony is winning right now because of the DRM is just asinine, IMO. It's the exact same example as the people who bitch about NCAA year in and year out. Madden, too. If you'd go by what the internet is saying, EA might as well just pack up their shit and call it a day. Meanwhile, both games are selling millions of copies. :D

Sony is winning because of the price difference and supply numbers, not because of some people on the internet angry about having to connect every 24 hours.

Well, stating an indisputable fact and your opinion all together. No need for further debate :D

[Escobar]

I didn't know you worked at a game store in Houston Escobar. At your store what's the ratio (approximately) of pre-orders for PS4 v. XB1. Has there been a noticeable "shift" since the "180" announcement?

I work at the Best Buy in Meyerland Plaza, but that may change by August. I finished up school officially in May and I am currently debating whether I should try and do modeling/music production full time or get my teacher's certification so I can start my coaching career. I got certified by USA Track & Field as a coach a couple years ago when I was trying to go pro and my knee injury forced me to stop competing.

From the pre-orders I have been involved with and talking to a couple of other employees the pre-order count is 10 PS4 to 0 XBOX ONE. That is speaking only from what I can confirm 100%. But everytime I go into work I get questions or hear about more people coming in to pre-order the PS4. So far I have only heard about maybe one to two people considering the XBOX1. I didn't find out about the 180 until last night when I checked this forum lol, which is why I figured most people have not heard about it. I will discover more info when I go back in on Sunday.

[SCClassof93]

I work at the Best Buy in Meyerland Plaza, but that may change by August. I finished up school officially in May and I am currently debating whether I should try and do modeling/music production full time or get my teacher's certification so I can start my coaching career. I got certified by USA Track & Field as a coach a couple years ago when I was trying to go pro and my knee injury forced me to stop competing.

From the pre-orders I have been involved with and talking to a couple of other employees the pre-order count is 10 PS4 to 0 XBOX ONE. That is speaking only from what I can confirm 100%. But everytime I go into work I get questions or hear about more people coming in to pre-order the PS4. So far I have only heard about maybe one to two people considering the XBOX1. I didn't find out about the 180 until last night when I checked this forum lol, which is why I figured most people have not heard about it. I will discover more info when I go back in on Sunday.

Congrats on finishing school :up:

[Escobar]

To say Sony is winning right now because of the DRM is just asinine, IMO. It's the exact same example as the people who bitch about NCAA year in and year out. Madden, too. If you'd go by what the internet is saying, EA might as well just pack up their shit and call it a day. Meanwhile, both games are selling millions of copies. :D

The reason people keep buying Madden and NCAA is because they are the only game available. You either buy them or don't play football. Present people with two options and they will most likely choose what they feel is the better product. This is why 2K has become successful and Live died. There was no exclusivity deal, people felt 2K was the better product and it won.

[Escobar]

Congrats on finishing school :up:

Thanks man. It felt like more work than it should have been, because I kind of got screwed over when I transferred from OU after taking some time off.

[CLW]

I work at the Best Buy in Meyerland Plaza, but that may change by August. I finished up school officially in May and I am currently debating whether I should try and do modeling/music production full time or get my teacher's certification so I can start my coaching career. I got certified by USA Track & Field as a coach a couple years ago when I was trying to go pro and my knee injury forced me to stop competing.

From the pre-orders I have been involved with and talking to a couple of other employees the pre-order count is 10 PS4 to 0 XBOX ONE. That is speaking only from what I can confirm 100%. But everytime I go into work I get questions or hear about more people coming in to pre-order the PS4. So far I have only heard about maybe one to two people considering the XBOX1. I didn't find out about the 180 until last night when I checked this forum lol, which is why I figured most people have not heard about it. I will discover more info when I go back in on Sunday.

I know where that Best Buy is but its not "my" Best Buy. For some reason I usually end up at the one out by the Galleria. That's interesting that there has been that big of a discrepancy in what you have seen. Can you confirm/deny the "supply issue" many here speculate that Sony is WAY ahead of MS in manufacturing. I've read/heard several reports from retailers that they have 2 or 3 times as many PS4s to sell as XB1s.

[I OU a Beatn]

The reason people keep buying Madden and NCAA is because they are the only game available. You either buy them or don't play football. Present people with two options and they will most likely choose what they feel is the better product. This is why 2K has become successful and Live died. There was no exclusivity deal, people felt 2K was the better product and it won.

Point is, people constantly complain about it year in and year out, and it still does just fine. People complaining on the internet are a small fraction of the total customer base (if I had to guess, I'd say easily less than 10%).

People are complaining about the Xbox One, it has supply issues, cost $100 more, and is still only getting outsold by 50%. That right there just goes to show you how little the total potential customer base cares about the 24 hour online check. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's not people out there that were avoiding the console for that reason as I'm sure there are. However, in the overall picture, I just don't see that big of a percentage being off put by it. I'd say the $100 price difference is the really big one, which is why I'm a firm believer Microsoft needs to cut the price.

[CLW]

For whatever it is worth. IGN "sources" say the "Family" thing wasn't just PS+ 1hr rentals.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/21/on-xbox-ones-social-network-canceled-family-share-demos

[I OU a Beatn]

According to this, Kinect is no longer required, however, it is also confirms that there will be no price drop as apparently it is still shipping with the console:

Uh, what? Link (http://www.examiner.com/article/rumor-microsoft-removing-kinect-requirement-without-xbox-one-price-drop)

[I OU a Beatn]

Photo of the emails that are from that link:

http://i.imgur.com/Dx9lCOB.jpg

[CLW]

According to this, Kinect is no longer required, however, it is also confirms that there will be no price drop as apparently it is still shipping with the console:

Uh, what? Link (http://www.examiner.com/article/rumor-microsoft-removing-kinect-requirement-without-xbox-one-price-drop)

LMFAO so the two most "revolutionary" things XB1 was bringing (DRM and Kinect) are both now no longer required? So what was the point then? What is MS' vision?

Wow just wow I've never seen anything like this within a 1-2 week span. CRAZY!

[I OU a Beatn]

It's been on 360 for 3 or 4 years now and no one even cares about it anymore. It was a joke they even had it as a requirement and if this turns out to be true, good riddance. Now give me my $400 Xbox One without the Kinect.

[Kingpin32]

That's cray cray.

[Kingpin32]

It's been on 360 for 3 or 4 years now and no one even cares about it anymore. It was a joke they even had it as a requirement and if this turns out to be true, good riddance. Now give me my $400 Xbox One without the Kinect.

I don't think the pricing is gonna change.

[JBHuskers]

If only price difference is the reason for the difference in pre-orders, then why did Microsoft change their stance? Surely not to please the internets.

[CLW]

If only price difference is the reason for the difference in pre-orders, then why did Microsoft change their stance? Surely not to please the internets.

Well at this point (if they have in fact dropped Big Brother Kinect) the only real difference left is PS4 has better memory/specs and price point. Does MS announce DDR5 and a $100 price drop by next Friday? 50/50 prop at this point. Perhaps it will be on SFTC. :nod:

[I OU a Beatn]

If only price difference is the reason for the difference in pre-orders, then why did Microsoft change their stance? Surely not to please the internets.

No idea as it literally makes no sense. They're selling out of all their stock, meaning people really don't care about the 24 hour online check. I could understand the move if their stock wasn't being sold, but that's definitely not a problem. I don't really get the removal of the Kinect, either (even thought I'm glad it's gone if it's true), because if something is selling so well, why remove it?

I guess it was to improve their appearance. They've kind of become the poster boys for online requirements, so maybe they wanted to remove that? No idea.

[gschwendt]

XBox One Family Share was going to be as awesome as you hoped it would be...
http://kotaku.com/rumor-about-xbox-one-family-sharings-downsides-has-fla-534484570

348125219019436033
348092374842474497

[I OU a Beatn]

A dagger right through my heart. That would MORE than make up for the 24 hour check and pain in the ass used games. Oh well.

[CLW]

A dagger right through my heart. That would MORE than make up for the 24 hour check and pain in the ass used games. Oh well.

It is an interesting feature but again MS UTTERLY FAILED to sell it. They should have had videos, demos, explanations etc... on it publishers probably didn't like the concept but screw them your #1 job is to sell your console. (See PS4)

[gschwendt]

Yeah... had they used that Facebook group graphic that showed that you could essentially share it to 10 friends with few limitations, it would have won a lot of people over.

[AustinWolv]

A dagger right through my heart. That would MORE than make up for the 24 hour check and pain in the ass used games. Oh well.
Thank the internet and CLW-type fanboys out there. ;)

j/k CLW.

[CLW]

Thank the internet and CLW-type fanboys out there. ;)

Yep I pretty much SINGLE-HANDILY took down a Fortune 500 company led by a bunch of evil liberal commies. Power to the PEOPLE! :nod:

[psuexv]

Yeah... had they used that Facebook group graphic that showed that you could essentially share it to 10 friends with few limitations, it would have won a lot of people over.

Yeah but it seems really odd that they just pulled the features instead of trying to explain them. Even after they saw the preorder numbers, they are just preorders. People can back out of them. It just doesn't really make sense.

[CLW]

Yeah but it seems really odd that they just pulled the features instead of trying to explain them. Even after they saw the preorder numbers, they are just preorders. People can back out of them. It just doesn't really make sense.

Well yes/no. Maybe the pre-orders are even WORSE than the 60/40 U.S. split. Plus the U.S. is MS' #1 market if they lose the U.S. they are pretty much guaranteed to get HAMMERED in the EU and Japan.

You know there is always X% of wiggle room in people changing their mind but once you lose mind share (like PS3 did last gen due to its "too high" price tag and being late compared to 360) it was pretty much game over the entire generation. MS is in the same position here before the console even launches they are trying to change that but I'm not convinced they can pull it off as their PR/message is now COMPLETELY lost/confusing and now everything they announce you have to wonder will they retract it a week later and try something else.

I wouldn't be shocked at this point to even see a price drop to the same as PS4.

[I OU a Beatn]

Like I said, it makes no sense. They're selling their allotment of consoles, so I don't know why they're drastically changing everything. Obviously, there's something going on that we don't know about yet. Why change everything when your console is selling just fine?

[CLW]

Like I said, it makes no sense. They're selling their allotment of consoles, so I don't know why they're drastically changing everything. Obviously, there's something going on that we don't know about yet. Why change everything when your console is selling just fine?

(1) Maybe its NOT "selling just fine". Maybe they've seen the #s from Amazon/retailers and they aren't good. (2) Maybe the DRM thing didn't work right and was causing a ton of problems i.e. Red Ring of Death like issues

LMAO could you imagine going through all the bad PR then at launch having to address another RROD especially if its due to the DRM. That would KILL the console and I mean literally kill it like the Dreamcast.

[I OU a Beatn]

(1) Maybe its NOT "selling just fine". Maybe they've seen the #s from Amazon/retailers and they aren't good. (2) Maybe the DRM thing didn't work right and was causing a ton of problems i.e. Red Ring of Death like issues

LMAO could you imagine going through all the bad PR then at launch having to address another RROD especially if its due to the DRM. That would KILL the console and I mean literally kill it like the Dreamcast.

It sold out on Amazon within 24 hours. They just recently put more up the past few days. It's also been sold out of all of my local GS stores for the past several days as well. It's also sold out on GS.com and has been for several days. Sales has nothing to do with it, IMO. Something happened that is causing them to do it, and I can't imagine backlash from the internet being the reason when their console is selling out everywhere. Makes no sense to me.

[CLW]

Microsoft: 'We Feel Really Good About What Xbox One Is' [subject to change] :nod:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/21/microsoft-we-feel-really-good-about-what-xbox-one-is?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

[SmoothPancakes]

A dagger right through my heart. That would MORE than make up for the 24 hour check and pain in the ass used games. Oh well.

Goddamnit.

I would have definitely loved that. The rest already didn't bother me. My 360 is set to automatically log me into my account and sign into Xbox Live every time I turn it on. And outside of a few sports games a couple years ago, I don't sell or trade in my games, so that made no difference to me. I would have been fine with all of that if we could have kept the family share stuff.

My best friend from college and I could have actually played some games together for a change instead of constantly having to convince each other to buy one game or another. I've been trying to convince him to buy Halo 4 for a couple months now. Did at least get him to settle for Black Ops 2 though so we could fuck around in Custom Games.

Good to hear about the Kinect though. That's one more anti-Xbox One point killed, as now people can't bash it due to "privacy concerns".

At this point, I'm pretty well sold on the Xbox One. Just waiting to hear anything new about any potential overheating issues. If there are reports of issues come September or October, I may cancel my pre-order and wait until at least spring of 2014 to hopefully let them get any issues sorted out.

[Escobar]

I know where that Best Buy is but its not "my" Best Buy. For some reason I usually end up at the one out by the Galleria. That's interesting that there has been that big of a discrepancy in what you have seen. Can you confirm/deny the "supply issue" many here speculate that Sony is WAY ahead of MS in manufacturing. I've read/heard several reports from retailers that they have 2 or 3 times as many PS4s to sell as XB1s.

Yea not too many people come to our Best Buy, most go to the Galleria. I didn't even know it was here until two of my friends worked there and got me the job. I'm not sure about the allotment of systems. Hell we don't even know what's going on. They haven't told us anything. I'm not even sure pre-ordering is guaranteeing you a system lol. That's why I got mine from amazon. But I knew Microsoft was behind in production before they or Sony even officially announced they were making a next gen system. There were some reports online that the chip Microsoft used for something was only yielding a 25% usable rate out of production, which is terrible.

[Escobar]

To me selling out of your pre-orders means nothing. I can create a game console, but only give Amazon ten. Once those ten are pre-ordered they are "sold out". Thus giving the image that my console is selling well because you will never know how many actually sold, you just know that it sold out. In essence creating a false demand, creating a hypebeast, to try and get people to rush out and try and get my console. It's simple marketing. Nike knows this all too well. They come out with these shoe releases and only ship out 2-3 in each size creating a huge demand because of the limited supply.

[CLW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjgPGHI3vRU

[GatorfanStovy]

Dude probably lives at home still .

[morsdraconis]

Dude probably lives at home still .

Actually, no he doesn't. He's actually a very intelligent person with a lot of smart things to say.

[oweb26]

Actually, no he doesn't. He's actually a very intelligent person with a lot of smart things to say.

ummmm....okay , if you say so.

Ill just have to take your word on that one.

[bdoughty]

ummmm....okay , if you say so.

Ill just have to take your word on that one.

No need, here is a video. A bit sad but it shows he is far different from the character he plays.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HZ1cUup0ATg

[morsdraconis]

No need, here is a video. A bit sad but it shows he is far different from the character he plays.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HZ1cUup0ATg

Thank you man for linking to that. It's that type of thing that I'm talking about. The guy is a real life story of how Youtube can change people's lives for the better.

[jaymo76]

Thank you man for linking to that. It's that type of thing that I'm talking about. The guy is a real life story of how Youtube can change people's lives for the better.

Awesome video! It's hard not to like this guy. I wish him all the best.

[CLW]

Xbox One Will Not Include a Headset
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/25/xbox-one-will-not-include-a-headset?abthid=51c9f8e2cab633c72d000016 (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/25/xbox-one-will-not-include-a-headset?abthid=51c9f8e2cab633c72d000016)

[AustinWolv]

Good, wasn't a fan of the headsets anyway.

[GatorfanStovy]

Even if it wasn't a fun headset at least it was free! But damn MS just keep on killing your self. Just gotta do what the opposite of what Sony does don't u .

[AustinWolv]

Even if it wasn't a fun headset at least it was free!
Nothing is free. It would be rolled into the cost somehow. Try again.

[CLW]

Nothing is free. It would be rolled into the cost somehow. Try again.

I believe they announced it with a headset before and they have since taken it away yet the price remains the same?

[SCClassof93]

Even if it wasn't a fun headset at least it was free! But damn MS just keep on killing your self. Just gotta do what the opposite of what Sony does don't u .

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/phone-ringing.gif

[JBHuskers]

Both basic headsets for PS4 and XB1 seem shitty. Sounds like my bluetooth will work on PS4 anyways.

[AustinWolv]

I believe they announced it with a headset before and they have since taken it away yet the price remains the same?

Link? Or trolling?

Or maybe they found out a different component was going to cost them more to procure and put the system cost towards that.

Or maybe they are pocketing the $2 that the headset probably cost to make and are laughing at you.

Doesn't seem like it was known one way or the other:

Headsets were included with Xbox 360, but Microsoft is yet to confirm whether or not the new Xbox One, priced at $499.99, will come packaged with a headset. There's no mention of a headset in a list of "what's included" on the official Xbox website, and the inclusion of the microphone-equipped Kinect has been suggested as replacement for the traditional headset.
http://www.xpgamesaves.com/topic/76030-xbox-one-headset-controller-charge-kit-detailed/


Both basic headsets for PS4 and XB1 seem shitty.
YES!
Which is why I don't care that it isn't included with XB1.

[CLW]

Link? Or trolling?

Or maybe they found out a different component was going to cost them more to procure and put the system cost towards that.

Or maybe they are pocketing the $2 that the headset probably cost to make and are laughing at you.

Doesn't seem like it was known one way or the other:

http://www.xpgamesaves.com/topic/76030-xbox-one-headset-controller-charge-kit-detailed/


YES!
Which is why I don't care that it isn't included with XB1.

Not trolling I recall reading an article indicating a headset would be included with XB1 but perhaps it was mis-reported and perhaps I'm dreaming.

[cdj]

I believe they announced it with a headset before and they have since taken it away yet the price remains the same?

FWIW, I thought the Xbox One was going to come with a headset as well, so the recent 'no headset' news was a surprise. However, there's been so many rumors about this console for so long, it's tough to actually know what will be included.

[I OU a Beatn]

Good riddance. That thing that was included with the 360 was the biggest piece of garbage ever.

[GatorfanStovy]

Guys guys at least the mix was free. I never had to buy thanks to it being included. I'm glad Sony is including one.

[SmoothPancakes]

Good riddance. That thing that was included with the 360 was the biggest piece of garbage ever.

Amen. I hate using this damn thing when talking with friends in party chat, but haven't dropped the money on a real headset, and at this point I won't until I get upgraded to Xbox One and know the good headsets will plug in and work with it.

[CLW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPOJtsosKkE

[CLW]

Xbox 360 Headsets May Work With Xbox One
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/27/xbox-360-headsets-may-work-with-xbox-one (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/27/xbox-360-headsets-may-work-with-xbox-one)

[CLW]

Xbox Exec: Comparing Console Specs Is 'Meaningless'
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/28/xbox-exec-comparing-console-specs-is-meaningless

Isn't that what all dudes with "spec issues" say? :nod:

[I OU a Beatn]

He has a point, but he sounds like a pretentious ass hat with the way he said it.

[CLW]

He has a point, but he sounds like a pretentious ass hat with the way he said it.

I think that's MS' actual strategy. Act like pretentious asses is the way to win the console war. Funny thing, that almost never works.

[AustinWolv]

Isn't that what all dudes with "spec issues" say?

I thought their standard retort was that they "know how to use it", which is what that M$ guy was doing. LOL! ;)

[CLW]

I thought their standard retort was that they "know how to use it", which is what that M$ guy was doing. LOL! ;)

precisely. saying something is irrelevant when someone else is touting it is an ADMISSION that your measurement in the "irrelevant" category of comparison aren't up to the "bragger's" stuff. :nod:

[AustinWolv]

precisely. saying something is irrelevant when someone else is touting it is an ADMISSION that your measurement in the "irrelevant" category of comparison aren't up to the "bragger's" stuff. :nod:

Yep. To OU's point and the M$ guy's point, the specs *may* not be as cut and dry as Sony is touting...........there have been many times I've encountered how computer specs and benchmarks reveal how a competitor's product doesn't stack up to what my products my company provides, but they are marketing it a certain way that makes their product look dominant. Corner cases that they PROACTIVELY hone in on and then boast and get the market/customer to buy into, and then attack a competitive product for not matching up despite that competitive product being more capable and dominating them in all other areas.

Regardless, Marketing dept at M$ is getting killed and heads should be rolling. I think they have the money to hire some better people. ;)

[I OU a Beatn]

RAM in One Much Faster than Originally Stated, Rumors of Down Clocking Debunked (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-memory-better-in-production-hardware)


Well-placed development sources have told Digital Foundry that the ESRAM embedded memory within the Xbox One processor is considerably more capable than Microsoft envisaged during pre-production of the console, with data throughput levels up to 88 per cent higher in the final hardware.

Bandwidth is at a premium in the Xbox One owing to the slower DDR3 memory employed in the console, which does not compare favourably to the 8GB unified pool of GDDR5 in the PlayStation 4. The 32MB of "embedded static RAM" within the Xbox One processor aims to make up the difference, and was previously thought to sustain a peak theoretical throughput of 102GB/s - useful, but still some way behind the 176GB/s found in PlayStation 4's RAM set-up. Now that close-to-final silicon is available, Microsoft has revised its own figures upwards significantly, telling developers that 192GB/s is now theoretically possible.

So how could Microsoft's own internal tech teams have underestimated the capabilities of its own hardware by such a wide margin? Well, according to sources who have been briefed by Microsoft, the original bandwidth claim derives from a pretty basic calculation - 128 bytes per block multiplied by the GPU speed of 800MHz offers up the previous max throughput of 102.4GB/s. It's believed that this calculation remains true for separate read/write operations from and to the ESRAM. However, with near-final production silicon, Microsoft techs have found that the hardware is capable of reading and writing simultaneously. Apparently, there are spare processing cycle "holes" that can be utilised for additional operations. Theoretical peak performance is one thing, but in real-life scenarios it's believed that 133GB/s throughput has been achieved with alpha transparency blending operations (FP16 x4).

The news doesn't quite square with previous rumours suggesting that fabrication issues with the ESRAM component of the Xbox One processor had actually resulted in a downclock for the GPU, reducing its overall capabilities and widening the gulf between graphical components of the Xbox One and the PlayStation 4. While none of our sources are privy to any production woes Microsoft may or may not be experiencing with its processor, they are making actual Xbox One titles and have not been informed of any hit to performance brought on by production challenges. To the best of their knowledge, 800MHz remains the clock speed of the graphics component of the processor, and the main CPU is operating at the target 1.6GHz. In both respects, this represents parity with the PlayStation 4.

In terms of what this all means with regards multi-platform titles launching on both next-gen consoles, our information suggests that developers may be playing things rather conservatively for launch titles while dev tools are still being worked on. This is apparently more of an issue with Xbox One, where Microsoft developers are still in the process of bringing home very significant increases in performance from one release of the XDK development environment to the next. Our principal source suggests that performance targets are being set by game-makers and that the drivers should catch up with those targets sooner rather than later. Bearing in mind the stuttering performance we saw from some Xbox One titles at E3 such as Crytek's Ryse (amongst others), this is clearly good news.

Our information suggests that Microsoft's strategy with the Xbox One operating system and supporting software is to implement all the features first and then to aggressively pursue optimisation - a process that is ongoing and will continue beyond launch. As the performance levels of both next-gen consoles are something of a moving target at the moment, differences in multi-platform games may not become evident until developers are working with more mature tools and libraries. At that point it's possible that we may see ambitious titles operating at a lower resolution on Xbox One compared to the PlayStation 4.

However, clearly it's still early days, and right now these machines remain very much uncharted territory - even for those who've been working with prototype hardware for a long time. Microsoft tells developers that the ESRAM is designed for high-bandwidth graphics elements like shadowmaps, lightmaps, depth targets and render targets. But in a world where Killzone: Shadow Fall is utilising 800MB for render targets alone, how difficult will it be for developers to work with just 32MB of fast memory for similar functions? On the flipside, Xbox One's powerful custom audio hardware - dubbed SHAPE (Scalable Hardware Audio Processing Engine) - should do a fantastic job for HD surround, a task that sucks up lots of CPU time on current-gen console. How does PS4 compare there? And just how much impact does the GDDR5 memory - great for graphics - have on CPU tasks compared to Xbox One's lower-latency DDR3?

While next generation of consoles finally arrive in a matter of months, the launch games will have mostly been developed on incomplete hardware - a state of affairs that was blatantly obvious from titles seen so far. On paper, Sony retains a clear specs advantage, but it was difficult to see that reflected in the quality of the games at E3. Based on what we're hearing about the approach to next-gen development, it could be quite some time before any on-paper advantage translates into an appreciably better experience on-screen.

Good to hear that no production issues are present. I know Smooth was potentially worried about that, so those worries can be put to rest.

Unless full theoretical power is achieved, the PS4's RAM is still going to be faster, but it's using GDDR5, so that's to be expected. Sony's GPU is a good bit more powerful as well (last I heard, it had a 50% power advantage over the chip in the One). The processor in both of them are virtually the same.

Like the article says, you'll probably eventually see differences between the graphics capability, but it'll be years before we do and even then, it wont be a major difference (for example, a PS4 game may be able to go 1080p 60 frames per second and the same game on Xbox One might be at 60 frames per second and only 900p...no one would be able to tell the difference).

Good to hear the production problems aren't true.

[I OU a Beatn]

Actually, now that I've re-read it, those numbers don't add up to me. If the eSRAM was theoretically capable of 102.4 GB/s with single read/write operations, then it would theoretically be capable of 204.8 GB/s if the read/write functions are simultaneous, not 192 GB/s like the article states. Something doesn't jive there.

[SCClassof93]

Actually, now that I've re-read it, those numbers don't add up to me. If the eSRAM was theoretically capable of 102.4 GB/s with single read/write operations, then it would theoretically be capable of 204.8 GB/s if the read/write functions are simultaneous, not 192 GB/s like the article states. Something doesn't jive there.

Always be wary of any article that appeals to "sources" that are unnamed. That article does so twice.

[I OU a Beatn]

Well, I get the numbers now, but using their final theoretical speed of 192 GB/s, it would mean that they DID down clock the speed of the GPU from 800 MHz to 750 MHz. If that's the case, then you'd have 750MHz*128, which equates to 96 GB/s for a single read/write function. Since it's reportedly capable of doing both simultaneously, you'd multiply that by 2, which does give you the 192 GB/s that the article stated was possible.

So, at least one of those things in the article is wrong. It either didn't get down clocked like the article stated but is actually theoretically capable of 204.8 GB/s, or it did get down clocked to 750MHz and is capable of the 192 GB/s read/write speed. It'll be interesting to find out which one it is.

[I OU a Beatn]

No More Entering Codes (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/01/xbox-one-kinect-will-scan-redemption-codes?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social)

:D

[CLW]

No More Entering Codes (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/01/xbox-one-kinect-will-scan-redemption-codes?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social)

:D

WOOOO! BEST FEATURE EVA! That's it Sony CANCELLING my ps4 pre-order NOW! :nod:

[SmoothPancakes]

A whole lot of love for Titanfall in E3 awards.

http://www.gamecriticsawards.com/winners.html


Best of Show
Titanfall
(Respawn/EA for PC, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

Best Original Game
Titanfall
(Respawn/EA for PC, XBox 360, Xbox One)

Best Console Game
Titanfall
(Respawn/EA for PC, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

Best Handheld/Mobile Game
Tearaway
(Media Molecule/SCEA for PSVita)

Best PC Game
Titanfall
(Respawn/EA for PC, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

Best Hardware/Peripheral
Oculus Rift
(Oculus VR)

Best Action Game
Titanfall
(Respawn/EA for PC, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

Best Action/Adventure Game
Watch Dogs
(Ubisoft Montreal/Ubisoft for PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Wii-U)

Best Role Playing Game
The Elder Scrolls Online
(Zenimax Online/Bethesda Softworks for PC, PS4, Xbox One)

Best Racing Game
Need for Speed: Rivals
(Ghost Games/EA for PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

Best Sports Game
NHL 14
(EA Canada/EA Sports for PS3, Xbox 360)

Best Strategy Game
Total War: Rome II
(Creative Assembly/Sega for PC)

Best Social/Casual Game
Fantasia: Music Evolved
(Harmonix/Disney Interactive for Xbox 360, Xbox One)

Best Online Multiplayer
Titanfall
(Respawn/EA for PC, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

Best Downloadable Game
Transistor
(Supergiant Games for PC, PS4)

[I OU a Beatn]

It was by far the best looking game out of any of the conferences, so that's not surprising.

[morsdraconis]

:smh:

People complain about Call of Duty but then suck the dick of the first game that's Call of Duty with "mechs".

:smh:

[I OU a Beatn]

It literally looks absolutely nothing like Call of Duty (unless your only criteria is that it's a FPS, in which case, every FPS is Call of Duty).

[morsdraconis]

It literally looks absolutely nothing like Call of Duty (unless your only criteria is that it's a FPS, in which case, every FPS is Call of Duty).

It's made by the people that used to make Call of Duty and NUMEROUS places have said that it plays exactly like Call of Duty. :fp:

[I OU a Beatn]

Okay, how is that a bad thing? As far as gun play, Call of Duty has some of the tightest you can play. It also has easily the best controls and the fluidity of the combat is second to none. It gets ragged on for one thing and one thing only - horrific net code. The recent ones have had imbalanced weapons and poor map design, but that's been after the departure of those 2.

So it's a game that's has combat and gun play that is as fluid and tight as Call of Duty, but it's on dedicated servers? Yeah, I'll take that all day. I really don't see how that's a bad thing. :D

[morsdraconis]

Okay, how is that a bad thing? As far as gun play, Call of Duty has some of the tightest you can play. It also has easily the best controls and the fluidity of the combat is second to none. It gets ragged on for one thing and one thing only - horrific net code. The recent ones have had imbalanced weapons and poor map design, but that's been after the departure of those 2.

So it's a game that's has combat and gun play that is as fluid and tight as Call of Duty, but it's on dedicated servers? Yeah, I'll take that all day. I really don't see how that's a bad thing. :D

Because Call of Duty is like reading a "FPS For Dummies" book. It's the lowest common denominator of FPS. It's the Madden of FPSs (same old shit with SMALL changes each time) and yet people keep buying it, just like Madden because they're fuckin' sheep that can't put their money where their mouth is and demand a GOOD FPS.

It's pretty fuckin' sad when F2P FPSs are better in every sense than Call of Duty has EVER been.

[I OU a Beatn]

Because Call of Duty is like reading a "FPS For Dummies" book. It's the lowest common denominator of FPS. It's the Madden of FPSs (same old shit with SMALL changes each time) and yet people keep buying it, just like Madden because they're fuckin' sheep that can't put their money where their mouth is and demand a GOOD FPS.

It's pretty fuckin' sad when F2P FPSs are better in every sense than Call of Duty has EVER been.

No argument there, but this isn't Call of Duty. Never mind the fact that it's a sci-fi shooter with operable mechs, but it's going to have completely different mechanics. The fact that the shooting feels like Call of Duty is only a good thing because that's one of the very few things that Call of Duty gets right (and 60 FPS).

Considering this broke the record for most E3 awards, I'm quite confident this will be more than a good FPS. I called that as soon as I saw it and I've yet to see anything that would lead me to believe otherwise. The lack of a campaign is kind of disappointing, but honestly, if it's going to be as horrible as the Call of Duty and Battlefield campaigns, it's probably best to do without and focus on making online the best that it can be.

[JBHuskers]

Facebook ad fail :D :D :D

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/jbennett98/facebookadfail_zps94bb4a42.png?t=1372866404

[SCClassof93]

:D

[CLW]

Microsoft Details Xbox One's Reputation System
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/03/microsoft-details-xbox-ones-reputation-system

[oweb26]

Microsoft Details Xbox One's Reputation System
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/03/microsoft-details-xbox-ones-reputation-system


Well there goes my rep I am a tea bagging machine to the cheesy players on battlefield 3 just to piss them off. :D

[SmoothPancakes]

Well there goes my rep I am a tea bagging machine to the cheesy players on battlefield 3 just to piss them off. :D

:D Yeah, I'm cool until the douchebags start up in the middle of a game. When they do, I start giving it right back to them as bad as they hand it out.

Hopefully the system works as well as they want it to. Then I can actually play games without dealing with fucktards in them.

[I OU a Beatn]

A friend of mine that works at GS informed me today that as of earlier in the week, GS stores nationwide are no longer taking reservations for the Xbox One Day One Edition or any other edition. I have another friend that works at a Best Buy and he told me that it's a similar situation there, as they cut off all Xbox One orders July 5th and would not be allowing more until they can confirm more inventory.

Obviously, this is a double edged sword for Microsoft. It's just proof that it's going to do extremely well out of the gates, which is usually a good omen for a console. On the flip side, they're losing out on a TON of potential money by being behind in the manufacturing process. At least, that's what I'm assuming is the problem. I guess Sony could just be allowing infinite orders and they plan on fulfilling them in waves over several weeks and Microsoft doesn't want to do that, but I'd say the more likely issue is that Microsoft reportedly started much later and wont be able to match Sony's manufacturing numbers. I guess time will tell.

Either way, people will be stomping the hell out of each other in Walmart this black Friday for both systems.

[CLW]

A friend of mine that works at GS informed me today that as of earlier in the week, GS stores nationwide are no longer taking reservations for the Xbox One Day One Edition or any other edition. I have another friend that works at a Best Buy and he told me that it's a similar situation there, as they cut off all Xbox One orders July 5th and would not be allowing more until they can confirm more inventory.

Obviously, this is a double edged sword for Microsoft. It's just proof that it's going to do extremely well out of the gates, which is usually a good omen for a console. On the flip side, they're losing out on a TON of potential money by being behind in the manufacturing process. At least, that's what I'm assuming is the problem. I guess Sony could just be allowing infinite orders and they plan on fulfilling them in waves over several weeks and Microsoft doesn't want to do that, but I'd say the more likely issue is that Microsoft reportedly started much later and wont be able to match Sony's manufacturing numbers. I guess time will tell.

Either way, people will be stomping the hell out of each other in Walmart this black Friday for both systems.

I pre-ordered NCAA yesterday at a local Gamestop. Talked to the guy a bit as it was just me and him in the store and he was hesitant to tell me at 1st but eventually he said that although they haven't sold out of XB1s they were close but PS4 was out pacing them by far. MS is behind on at least telling retailers how many units they will get. He also said the PS4 was selling like hot cakes. Both are going to be popular but he said he didn't think there would be a supply issue for PS4 until at least black friday (then all bets are off).

[I OU a Beatn]

Don Mattrick may have left Microsoft to take up the role of CEO at Zynga as of today, but it appears his interest in the company isn't anything new.

Bloomberg reports that Mattrick actually tried to buy the social game developer while he was still working for Microsoft back in 2010. Supposedly, Mattrick was keen to strengthen Xbox's lineup with social games from Zynga that were, at the time, adding millions of users to Facebook every week.

Though negotiations eventually fell apart, the process caused Mattrick to become friends with the former Zynga CEO Mark Pincus, who he's replacing this week. It seems the two kept in contact, even going road-biking together, before starting to discuss Mattrick's move in March of this year.

So it looks like Mattrick's departure from Microsoft had been in the offing for a while, and wasn't a reaction to the backlash over the Xbox One's policies. The article goes on to reshare the pay and perks he'll be receiving during his first year at Zynga, which could see him earn around $19 million in his first year alone.


:fp:

Xbox is so much better off without this pompous ass.

[I OU a Beatn]

From the same insider who correctly leaked the specs of the consoles early:


As rumors are continually made about a change in the final specs on the Xbox One we have now heard rumors from a member on the website Beyond3D that Microsoft is actually asking developers about an increased GPU upclock and a increase in total DDR3 RAM to 12GB.

Plus, I did say it was a rumour so neither the upclock or RAM increase are confirmed. And it’s not just that the veracity of the rumour isn’t confirmed, but that the rumour itself does not claim MS are definitely increasing the clocks or RAM.

Apparently, the story apparently is that MS has gone to devs for feedback on a few different things, two of them being an increased GPU clock and an increase to 12 GB of RAM (another thing on the list was storage for ‘tombstoning’ - I’m guessing flash cache)

Devs have to list which spec changes they prefer in order of importance. So nothing is confirmed as of yet, just options MS is getting feedback on.

However, I do have someone else telling me (also from a dev source) that we shouldn’t be surprised to see 12GB of RAM in the final box and that it isn’t as hard for MS to do as we think.

This is not the only rumblings that the final hardware specs are still up in the air for the Xbox One apparently Engadget was able to get a inside look at Xbox One development a few days before the Xbox reveal which is around the same time beta devkits were sent out. In the picture above you'll notice many variations of hardware design leading to the idea that these might also contain different variations on internals that are still being tested even days before the reveal.

The chamber is full of hundreds of variations of prototype Xbox hardware — today, it’s set to very cold — and is vital in determining how the Xbox One stands up to extreme thermal conditions. With laughs all around, he’s freed from the icy, zebra-filled prison. Surprising no one, the various beta kits of the console itself, the controller and the new Kinect all sport zebra-pattern tape to hide their shape (as rumored).

— Engadget.com

It is all still speculation but the fact that we are getting information from good sources that the final specs of this device are still up in the air is a good sign that we still know little about what will ultimatley end up being inside our Xbox One's at launch.

As of right now current Xbox One devkits are running with 12 GB of RAM and the reason for the idea behind a upclock is that the Xbox One is running cooler or using less power than was planned and they can now allow for a stable upclock. This is only speculation on why this rumor could end up being true and backing up what the insider sources have said, as a reminder the Xbox 360 originally was being built with 256 MB of RAM but late in the development Microsoft decided to use the 512 MB of RAM from devkits.

Source (https://xboxuncut.squarespace.com/microsoft-asking-developers-about-an-increased-gpu-clock-and-an-increase-to-12-gb-of-ram)

For those who want the short story, Microsoft considering upgrading to 12GB of RAM and increasing the power of the graphics chip. Nothing confirmed yet, but they're just asking developers what they think about it.

[CLW]

From the same insider who correctly leaked the specs of the consoles early:



Source (https://xboxuncut.squarespace.com/microsoft-asking-developers-about-an-increased-gpu-clock-and-an-increase-to-12-gb-of-ram)

For those who want the short story, Microsoft considering upgrading to 12GB of RAM and increasing the power of the graphics chip. Nothing confirmed yet, but they're just asking developers what they think about it.

If they don't know what the console is going to have as far as hardware goes 4 months out they are in BIG trouble. There is no way they can ramp up production enough to meet even the "weaker" demand than PS4 in that time with such a late change. Unless they want to delay the console and allow Sony free reign during the holiday season.

[I OU a Beatn]

If they don't know what the console is going to have as far as hardware goes 4 months out they are in BIG trouble. There is no way they can ramp up production enough to meet even the "weaker" demand than PS4 in that time with such a late change. Unless they want to delay the console and allow Sony free reign during the holiday season.

Entire system architecture? Yeah. RAM? No. Upgrading the RAM wouldn't be something that would delay the console at all (in fact, they did the exact same thing with the 360 at about the same timetable). As for the GPU, it's not like they would be changing the chip, they would just be upclocking it for higher speeds, so that wouldn't take extraordinary amounts of time, either.

If the rumors are true, then yes, they still have time to do so.

Personally, I don't see the point to upgrading the RAM. I don't know of any games that require more than 6GB of RAM and that's in a PC environment where the OS is hogging some of the RAM as well. Having 7+GB of RAM dedicated solely to games is just overkill, IMO.

[JBHuskers]

Why charge the same for more power. At this point changing the game this much doesn't really make sense to MS considering the general consumer isn't going to know or care.

[I OU a Beatn]

Why charge the same for more power. At this point changing the game this much doesn't really make sense to MS considering the general consumer isn't going to know or care.

Developers. A bunch of them were complaining about only having 5GB of RAM available for games to run (again, I really don't know why because that should be plenty in most cases). Besides, price shouldn't have anything to do with it. DDR3 RAM is extremely cheap and adding another 4GB would cost them virtually nothing.

In 2005, just a few months before the release of the 360, Microsoft upped the RAM from 256MB to 512MB, so they've done it before. It doesn't really make sense to me this time around, but eh, time will tell.

[skipwondah33]

DDR3 RAM is extremely cheap and adding another 4GB would cost them virtually nothing.Exactly what I was going to say

Guess the developers don't want to feel restricted or limited in regards, but it makes sense to add since cost vs what you would gain is favor of the latter.

[I OU a Beatn]

Guess the developers don't want to feel restricted or limited in regards, but it makes sense to add since cost vs what you would gain is favor of the latter.

That's exactly why I think both Sony and Microsoft are going for a lot of RAM regardless of whether the rumors are true or not. The biggest limiting factor in the current consoles was the RAM. The 360 has 512MB and I'm pretty sure the PS3 had only 256MB of RAM (don't remember for sure). You could really see that in later games and it was always present with the PS3 and it's horrible slowdown with the in game XMB.

I guess they finally realized that there's no point in taking the risk of the RAM potentially being a bottleneck when they can just load up on as much as they want because of how cheap of a solution it is.

[skipwondah33]

That's exactly why I think both Sony and Microsoft are going for a lot of RAM regardless of whether the rumors are true or not. The biggest limiting factor in the current consoles was the RAM. The 360 has 512MB and I'm pretty sure the PS3 had only 256MB of RAM (don't remember for sure). You could really see that in later games and it was always present with the PS3 and it's horrible slowdown with the in game XMB.

I guess they finally realized that there's no point in taking the risk of the RAM potentially being a bottleneck when they can just load up on as much as they want because of how cheap of a solution it is.Yep spot on and it would be ridiculous to have such a small thing in both cost and implementation be the reason for suffering performance.

The XMB issue was and still is terrible.

[CLW]

I'm not disagreeing with the cost analysis. I simply don't buy that MS can have ZERO XB1s manufactured now 4 months out from launch. I don't see anyway possible they could just ramp up the assembly line and start cranking out all of the XB1s needed to even come close to meet demand. It's a time issue more than a cost/technology issue.

[skipwondah33]

I'm not disagreeing with the cost analysis. I simply don't buy that MS can have ZERO XB1s manufactured now 4 months out from launch. I don't see anyway possible they could just ramp up the assembly line and start cranking out all of the XB1s needed to even come close to meet demand. It's a time issue more than a cost/technology issue.Oh I agree with that as well

Just saying IF production hasn't already started...which I know it has already begun.

[I OU a Beatn]

I'm not disagreeing with the cost analysis. I simply don't buy that MS can have ZERO XB1s manufactured now 4 months out from launch. I don't see anyway possible they could just ramp up the assembly line and start cranking out all of the XB1s needed to even come close to meet demand. It's a time issue more than a cost/technology issue.

Perhaps that's where the rumors of production troubles started and it's not production troubles, but rather they haven't started production yet because they haven't nailed down the final specs yet. Considering Sony has 3 times the number of consoles available, it's definitely possible.

Besides, they ALREADY can't meet demand. The stores around me have been sold out of the Xbox One for weeks.

This is still 100% rumors at this point, but it does make a little bit of sense.

[CLW]

Perhaps that's where the rumors of production troubles started and it's not production troubles, but rather they haven't started production yet because they haven't nailed down the final specs yet. Considering Sony has 3 times the number of consoles available, it's definitely possible.

Besides, they ALREADY can't meet demand. The stores around me have been sold out of the Xbox One for weeks.

This is still 100% rumors at this point, but it does make a little bit of sense.

Well let's presume it's all true. It's still playing into Sony hands (IF Sony can meet demand). If Sony has really sold out of 3x the supply and they can increase production the final 4 months to meet additional demand due to no XB1s X% will UNDOUBTEDLY just get a PS4 instead of waiting for XB1 to be available.

The question is how high does X% get. If true, you could be looking at a super-majority world-wide and a clear majority in the US with PS4s.

[I OU a Beatn]

Well let's presume it's all true. It's still playing into Sony hands (IF Sony can meet demand). If Sony has really sold out of 3x the supply and they can increase production the final 4 months to meet additional demand due to no XB1s X% will UNDOUBTEDLY just get a PS4 instead of waiting for XB1 to be available.

The question is how high does X% get. If true, you could be looking at a super-majority world-wide and a clear majority in the US with PS4s.

I don't see how it's playing into Sony's hands. The Xbox 360 launched a full year ahead of the PS3 with a $200 cheaper pricetag and a much better catalog of games. They started off amazingly well and were way ahead of Sony. Look at the numbers now. The PS3 did WAY more things wrong than the Xbox One is doing and it ended up doing just as well as the 360 because no one cares about how the launch is, but rather how well it's supported throughout it's life cycle. You're putting entirely way too much weight into the launches of these things.

But, back on topic, the Xbox One already sold out once and retailers were allotted more after a few weeks. It's impossible to predict how these things are going to fare in their first few weeks because there's too much unknown at this point. If they both can meet their respective demands, they're both going to sell extremely well.

I have no doubt in my mind that if Microsoft wanted to change the specs on the One, especially something like the RAM or increasing the power of the GPU, they'd still have plenty of time to do so. Whether or not they do, I don't know...I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

[CLW]

I don't see how it's playing into Sony's hands. The Xbox 360 launched a full year ahead of the PS3 with a $200 cheaper pricetag and a much better catalog of games. They started off amazingly well and were way ahead of Sony. Look at the numbers now. The PS3 did WAY more things wrong than the Xbox One is doing and it ended up doing just as well as the 360 because no one cares about how the launch is, but rather how well it's supported throughout it's life cycle. You're putting entirely way too much weight into the launches of these things.

But, back on topic, the Xbox One already sold out once and retailers were allotted more after a few weeks. It's impossible to predict how these things are going to fare in their first few weeks because there's too much unknown at this point. If they both can meet their respective demands, they're both going to sell extremely well.

I have no doubt in my mind that if Microsoft wanted to change the specs on the One, especially something like the RAM or increasing the power of the GPU, they'd still have plenty of time to do so. Whether or not they do, I don't know...I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.


This of course begs the question: Why change specs when "they don't matter"? (or whatever the quote was when asked why PS4 was more powerful)

[I OU a Beatn]

This of course begs the question: Why change specs when "they don't matter"? (or whatever the quote was when asked why PS4 was more powerful)

Future proof, maybe. They have 8GB of RAM, but 3GB of that is going to be reserved for the OS, so developers are left with 5GB of RAM to work with. That's plenty for now, but a few extra GBs might add a little insurance to make sure the RAM isn't eventually a bottleneck, like it was for the 360 and the PS3.

Like I said, it doesn't really matter in the end. Games on both consoles are going to look virtually the same, and PS4 exclusives will look a tad bit better. Optimizing the GPU and adding more RAM isn't going to change that. It's going to be a carbon copy rehash of this gen.

[CLW]

Future proof, maybe. They have 8GB of RAM, but 3GB of that is going to be reserved for the OS, so developers are left with 5GB of RAM to work with. That's plenty for now, but a few extra GBs might add a little insurance to make sure the RAM isn't eventually a bottleneck, like it was for the 360 and the PS3.

Like I said, it doesn't really matter in the end. Games on both consoles are going to look virtually the same, and PS4 exclusives will look a tad bit better. Optimizing the GPU and adding more RAM isn't going to change that. It's going to be a carbon copy rehash of this gen.

Nope specs are "meaningless" according to Xbox Exec. Sounds like they are getting a spec "pump" or "implant" if you ask me. :nod:

[I OU a Beatn]

Nope specs are "meaningless" according to Xbox Exec. Sounds like they are getting a spec "pump" or "implant" if you ask me. :nod:

So you're going to listen to an executive who probably a. has no working knowledge of how any of the stuff works, and b. probably didn't even work on the console? :D

Of course specs matter. Only an idiot would say otherwise. When the specs are as close as what the One and PS4 are going to be, then no, the DIFFERENCE likely wont matter, but of course specs matter in general.

[skipwondah33]

Yeah hoped that wasn't true that specs don't matter but couldn't up with a funny comment lol

Because its just hilarious for that to be said in the electronics world.

If that's the case I need to trade one of my inferior spec computers for a high end one straight up to Dell lol

[SCClassof93]

Yeah hoped that wasn't true that specs don't matter but couldn't up with a funny comment lol

Because its just hilarious for that to be said in the electronics world.

If that's the case I need to trade one of my inferior spec computers for a high end one straight up to Dell lol

That is what he said. Course if they bump it up to where they have more than Sony, well then let's talk specs will be the position. Point is when you are inferior in regards to specs, "specs are meaningless":D

[skipwondah33]

lmao wow!

That almost needs to be a meme

Maybe what he meant was that specs aren't everything lol

Which in some cases you could have the best looking technical specifications with cheap parts, implementation, whatever and it be out performed by a counterpart with less glamorous specs I guess.

However to say that they are "meaningless" I don't believe is true lol

[I OU a Beatn]

The only ones making a big deal about it are die hard Sony supporters. For the record, he clarified rather quickly afterwards in a post:


I appreciate those who understand the point I was trying to get across. It’s always hard, after sitting doing interviews all day, and you’re trying to have an engaging conversation with someone, and words get pulled out our the tone what you’re trying to say didn’t come out how you meant it.

You should also understand this interview was done after our launch event, and prior to E3. So please take that into consideration.

I’m not diminishing Sony’s performance claims and I wasn’t trying to be arrogant or dismissive. What I was trying to say is – I’m not Sony’s engineering team. So I can’t comment on what they have published as specs. I know what our teams are doing, and I know how they thought about architecting the system. The guys who are building these machines (on both sides) are unbelievably talented and experts in their field. Nobody knows the specifics of how the machines are architected or if there may be bottlenecks in one system or accelerators in another that change the impact of the published specs.

What I believe is that our games are going to be great and they are going to look next-gen, and I *think* E3 sort of showed that. And great games are what matters. And while you guys joke about the cloud stuff, I think the stuff the Respawn guys have said starts to clear up what we’ve been talking about with cloud performance (cue the “have you seen Titanfall” meme)

Games on both systems looked awesome. I was there, and while I know RISE took a hit on the gameplay that was shown, I thought it was the most next-gen looking game I saw on either platform. Of course, I get I’m biased and I didn’t have time to see everything.

As always, I love taking the hits. And I appreciate that while the words I used may were probably worth some scrutiny, I do appreciate that some of you got what I was trying to say.

(BTW the picture in that article is not me, but it is my good looking friend Kevin who works in Marketing)

As I said before, he's dead right. Games on both consoles are going to look extremely similar.

[morsdraconis]

There's a HUGE difference between 5 gigs of RAM and 8 gigs of RAM and while the games themselves may look graphically similar, I GUARANTEE you that framerates will take a hit if they don't do some form of optimization on the XBONE to run within the 5 gig limitation.

[skipwondah33]

I'm not a die hard Sony supporter FYI. I'd LOL at anyone who said that.

Sure I've eventually had Sony ever since the PS came out, but first next-gen console I had was a 360.

In fact the only reason I eventually got a PS3 1-2 years later was because I had 3...yes 3 xbox 360's fail on me during my time of owning. I actually got a 4th but decided to trade it in before the thing failed and eventually got a PS3. I didn't have any intentions on getting a PS3 due to the cost, unless they dropped in price at the time.

That PS3 that I got at the time didn't start having issues until last year when I replaced it in September. So got 5 years out of it. Whereas in a year's time I owned 4 xbox 360's...

Yeah specs are "meaningless"

[SCClassof93]

I'm not a die hard Sony supporter FYI. I'd LOL at anyone who said that.

Sure I've eventually had Sony ever since the PS came out, but first next-gen console I had was a 360.

In fact the only reason I eventually got a PS3 1-2 years later was because I had 3...yes 3 xbox 360's fail on me during my time of owning. I actually got a 4th but decided to trade it in before the thing failed and eventually got a PS3. I didn't have any intentions on getting a PS3 due to the cost, unless they dropped in price at the time.

That PS3 that I got at the time didn't start having issues until last year when I replaced it in September. So got 5 years out of it. Whereas in a year's time I owned 4 xbox 360's...

Yeah specs are "meaningless"

In IOU's world non MS homer = Sony homer :D

[I OU a Beatn]

There's a HUGE difference between 5 gigs of RAM and 8 gigs of RAM and while the games themselves may look graphically similar, I GUARANTEE you that framerates will take a hit if they don't do some form of optimization on the XBONE to run within the 5 gig limitation.

Most of the Xbox One games at E3 were running at a constant 60FPS while most of the PS4 games were running at 30FPS. Name one game right now that actually uses 5GB of RAM. Good luck. Like I said, it's overkill because right now, there's virtually none that use that much RAM. The difference is going to lie with the GPU. The one Sony is using is definitely more powerful, but it's not more powerful in the sense that they're going to have hugely better looking games. It would probably come right down to some games being able to run at a full 1080p with full effects on the PS4, while the Xbox One version would have be run a 900p to achieve full effects. Would anyone be able to tell the difference? I know I sure couldn't.


I'm not a die hard Sony supporter FYI. I'd LOL at anyone who said that.

I didn't mean you. Hell, I didn't even mean CLW. I don't consider anyone on here one of the die hard Sony supporters I was talking about. CLW might be a little one sided, but I truly believe that he's just having fun and doesn't take this stuff that seriously.

I was referring to the idiots that I read on various gaming sites who take this shit completely out of context and act like these "console wars" are the most important thing in the world.

[skipwondah33]

I didn't mean you. Hell, I didn't even mean CLW. I don't consider anyone on here one of the die hard Sony supporters I was talking about. CLW might be a little one sided, but I truly believe that he's just having fun and doesn't take this stuff that seriously.

I was referring to the idiots that I read on various gaming sites who take this shit completely out of context and act like these "console wars" are the most important thing in the world.Figured you weren't just wanted to air my still frustration to do this day about my 360 experience lol

To this day I still have my memory card (that I had to get NCAA rosters back then) and the hard drive that came with one of the systems that I still have Feeding Frenzy and this putt putt Golf game my wife and I use to love :D. I was throwing away some of my old electronics stuff I had laying around and found the card and the hard drive. I'd like to get another 360 just haven't yet. Did enjoy while it worked.

[I OU a Beatn]

Figured you weren't just wanted to air my still frustration to do this day about my 360 experience lol

To this day I still have my memory card (that I had to get NCAA rosters back then) and the hard drive that came with one of the systems that I still have Feeding Frenzy and this putt putt Golf game my wife and I use to love :D. I was throwing away some of my old electronics stuff I had laying around and found the card and the hard drive. I'd like to get another 360 just haven't yet. Did enjoy while it worked.

:D Yeah, I take every chance I get to vent about my consoles breaking down. I didn't have a 360 break down until last year. I had a launch console for 4 or 5 years and never had a problem. Sold it and got a slim and of course, the stupid thing breaks just a few months ago. I figured that they had been good to me, so I just got another.

The PS3, on the other hand, has been nothing but a pain in my ass (and if anyone on the planet deserves to hate Sony, it's me). Launch console broke after a year and a week. They wouldn't honor it even being so close to the 1 year. I got another one which lasted about 2 years or so before breaking. I got a slim, which also broke after a year and a week or two. Again, they wouldn't honor it. I got another slim, which ended up breaking AGAIN. Now, I'm on a super slim and while it feels like it's a flimsy piece of garbage, it's holding up just fine. Throw in the fact that my account was compromised and it took them 3 years to figure it out and finally release my account back to me and the fact that my barely one year old Vita broke a month or two ago and this generation has been nothing but a pain in the ass when it comes to Sony. Yet, here I am with my 5th(?) PS3 and my 2nd Vita. Not bad for a raging Microsoft fan boy. :D

Like I said, I don't think anyone here is a true Sony die hard. I know most people here prefer it, and CLW REALLY lets it shine through sometimes, but I think it's all in good fun. The comments I read around various sites on the internet, however, are genuine, and literally make me lose hope in mankind every time I read them. First of all, I don't understand why the hell they care so much (unless they have invested in Microsoft's or Sony's stock) and secondly, I don't understand why it's such a big deal if so and so prefers Sony, while the other so and so prefers Microsoft. I don't get the hate around Nintendo, either. Don't like them? Don't buy it. I guess I just don't understand the internet mentality of it. :D

[morsdraconis]

Most of the Xbox One games at E3 were running at a constant 60FPS while most of the PS4 games were running at 30FPS. Name one game right now that actually uses 5GB of RAM. Good luck. Like I said, it's overkill because right now, there's virtually none that use that much RAM. The difference is going to lie with the GPU. The one Sony is using is definitely more powerful, but it's not more powerful in the sense that they're going to have hugely better looking games. It would probably come right down to some games being able to run at a full 1080p with full effects on the PS4, while the Xbox One version would have be run a 900p to achieve full effects. Would anyone be able to tell the difference? I know I sure couldn't.

Talking about games running at E3 is pointless. The last thing that's EVER done is optimization to make things run faster, smoother, etc. Also, besides a few games, most everything was ran on high end PCs (aka 8+ gigs of RAM).

Clearly you don't understand how RAM works when it comes to games. RAM effects load speeds, ability to bare the weight of the frames on the screen without overflow, and, in general, how smooth of an experience you're going to have.

Pointing at any game that's also coming out for one of this generations consoles is pointless as well because, obviously, they aren't going to be programming the game to take advantage of what the extra RAM will allow.

As for games that use that much RAM, Crysis 3 (with high end recommendation of 8 gigs of RAM) would like to say hello.

[CLW]

I didn't mean you. Hell, I didn't even mean CLW. I don't consider anyone on here one of the die hard Sony supporters I was talking about. CLW might be a little one sided, but I truly believe that he's just having fun and doesn't take this stuff that seriously.

I was referring to the idiots that I read on various gaming sites who take this shit completely out of context and act like these "console wars" are the most important thing in the world.

A little one sided. :smh: CLW is always FAIR AND BALANCED! :nod:

PS4 v. XB1 is the 2nd most important/serious thing in my life (behind only Conservatives v. Commies). :nod:

[SCClassof93]

A little one sided. :smh: CLW is always FAIR AND BALANCED! :nod:

PS4 v. XB1 is the 2nd most important/serious thing in my life (behind only Conservatives v. Commies). :nod:

I figured rastahs for first :deadhorse:

[CLW]

I figured rastahs for first :deadhorse:

It's a God given right to pursue RASTASHS so that falls 3rd.

[I OU a Beatn]

Talking about games running at E3 is pointless. The last thing that's EVER done is optimization to make things run faster, smoother, etc. Also, besides a few games, most everything was ran on high end PCs (aka 8+ gigs of RAM).

Clearly you don't understand how RAM works when it comes to games. RAM effects load speeds, ability to bare the weight of the frames on the screen without overflow, and, in general, how smooth of an experience you're going to have.

Pointing at any game that's also coming out for one of this generations consoles is pointless as well because, obviously, they aren't going to be programming the game to take advantage of what the extra RAM will allow.

As for games that use that much RAM, Crysis 3 (with high end recommendation of 8 gigs of RAM) would like to say hello.

It's irrelevant whether it's optimized or not. If they already have the games running at 60FPS, which is their target, why would they add a bunch of effects that would knock them off that goal? A little common sense says they wont. Titanfall is one of those at 60FPS which already has a bunch of effects added in. "Hey guys, you know what would be awesome? Let's add a bunch of useless shit so that we can't hit the 60FPS goal." Yeah, I don't think that will happen. I realize it was on high end PCs, but several of those games were confirmed to be hitting 60FPS on Xbox One hardware, Titanfall and Forza being the 2 that immediately jump to mind.

How is it pointless to compare a PC game to what we'll have with next gen hardware? The lone difference is that games wont have to fight with the OS for memory and other resources. When that next gen hardware comes out, it still wont be up to snuff on the really high end PCs, so I'd say that's the perfect thing to compare it to.

As for Crysis 3, I run it at 1080p with 6GB of RAM and a nice 40FPS, so no, you don't need 8GB of RAM to run it. I haven't checked it, but I'd say it's using 4 or 5, which would put it in line with what the Xbox One would be able to do. As with all Crytek games, it sure as hell isn't as optimized as it could be, either.

I've also never heard of RAM having a vast impact on FPS. It handles things like loading the world, loading textures, and other things like that, but it doesn't have much of an impact at all with a game's FPS and how smoothly it runs.

[AustinWolv]

It's a God given right to pursue RASTASHS so that falls 3rd.

The Commies don't think you deserve any rights, so back to that 1st most important thing. :)

[morsdraconis]

As for Crysis 3, I run it at 1080p with 6GB of RAM and a nice 40FPS, so no, you don't need 8GB of RAM to run it. I haven't checked it, but I'd say it's using 4 or 5, which would put it in line with what the Xbox One would be able to do. As with all Crytek games, it sure as hell isn't as optimized as it could be, either.

I've also never heard of RAM having a vast impact on FPS. It handles things like loading the world, loading textures, and other things like that, but it doesn't have much of an impact at all with a game's FPS and how smoothly it runs.

You've clearly never played Minecraft with only 512mbs or 1 gig of RAM allocated. Frames drop when massive loads hit the processor instead of the RAM. Hell, Minecraft still has the occasional frame dip on the 10 gigs of RAM I have allocated to it sometimes. More RAM is a HUGE deal. Loading new items into memory means loading textures, frames, etc into the RAM so that the CPU and video card can process the movement, physics, and other changes made to the objects being loaded. Without the proper amount of RAM, you have frame hiccups as the processor attempts to loads the new items from scratch instead of pulling them from the RAM like normal. Thus, without the proper amount of RAM (or optimization in the sense of cutting down on the graphical quality in one area or another), you have less frames per second being put on the screen at a time and a chunkier looking experience.

It's amazing to me that developers were able to do what they've done on this generation of consoles with only 256mbs (PS3) or 512mbs (360) of RAM. The amount of workarounds and lack of visual depth some games had to do to keep even 30 FPS is amazing to look at (look at a video comparing GTAIV on a high end PC compared to the 360 version for instance to see the STARK differences between the two) and, sadly, most people won't even notice the things that they are doing with the new hardware because, graphically, we've hit the peak of what can be done within the human eye spectrum. This generation is going to be about the amount of things on the screen at once, since they've hit the wall with how graphically impressive they can make things look.

Also, eww to playing a FPS at only 40 fps. I feel bad for ya.

[I OU a Beatn]

You've clearly never played Minecraft with only 512mbs or 1 gig of RAM allocated. Frames drop when massive loads hit the processor instead of the RAM. Hell, Minecraft still has the occasional frame dip on the 10 gigs of RAM I have allocated to it sometimes. More RAM is a HUGE deal. Loading new items into memory means loading textures, frames, etc into the RAM so that the CPU and video card can process the movement, physics, and other changes made to the objects being loaded. Without the proper amount of RAM, you have frame hiccups as the processor attempts to loads the new items from scratch instead of pulling them from the RAM like normal. Thus, without the proper amount of RAM (or optimization in the sense of cutting down on the graphical quality in one area or another), you have less frames per second being put on the screen at a time and a chunkier looking experience.

It's amazing to me that developers were able to do what they've done on this generation of consoles with only 256mbs (PS3) or 512mbs (360) of RAM. The amount of workarounds and lack of visual depth some games had to do to keep even 30 FPS is amazing to look at (look at a video comparing GTAIV on a high end PC compared to the 360 version for instance to see the STARK differences between the two) and, sadly, most people won't even notice the things that they are doing with the new hardware because, graphically, we've hit the peak of what can be done within the human eye spectrum. This generation is going to be about the amount of things on the screen at once, since they've hit the wall with how graphically impressive they can make things look.

Also, eww to playing a FPS at only 40 fps. I feel bad for ya.

I'm not arguing any of that. I'm just saying that RAM doesn't play a huge role in frames per second (or at least, not nearly as much as the CPU and GPU do) and I believe that 5GB is more than enough when it's 100% solely used for the game and probably will be for the entirety of this upcoming generation. I've yet to find a game on PC I couldn't run at 1080p at over 30FPS with less than 5GB of RAM being used. The only reason I'm that low on FPS is because of the GPU I have, which is weaker than the ones in the PS4 and the One.

But, like I said before, it's better to have more RAM so that it's not a bottleneck like it was this generation. Like you said, it's impressive what developers were able to do with outrageously low RAM these current systems have.

[CLW]

Xbox One is an 'entirely justifiable' business expense, says Microsoft
http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/11/4513490/xbox-one-is-an-entirely-justifiable-business-expense-says-microsoft

[CLW]

Gamers Can't Handle the New Female Head at Xbox

http://news.yahoo.com/gamers-cant-handle-female-head-xbox-161250957.html (http://news.yahoo.com/gamers-cant-handle-female-head-xbox-161250957.html)

Allot of irrelevant arguments are getting over shadowed by one relevant argument that she isn't a gamer and has no gaming industry experience to lead XB1 into the future of gaming. Interesting....

[morsdraconis]

Gamers Can't Handle the New Female Head at Xbox

http://news.yahoo.com/gamers-cant-handle-female-head-xbox-161250957.html (http://news.yahoo.com/gamers-cant-handle-female-head-xbox-161250957.html)

Allot of irrelevant arguments are getting over shadowed by one relevant argument that she isn't a gamer and has no gaming industry experience to lead XB1 into the future of gaming. Interesting....

(shrugs)

Everyone has to start somewhere.

[I OU a Beatn]

Allot of irrelevant arguments are getting over shadowed by one relevant argument that she isn't a gamer and has no gaming industry experience to lead XB1 into the future of gaming. Interesting....

That's not even relevant. Don Mattrick was a gamer and look at all the stupid shit he did. As long as Phil Spencer and Aaron Greenburg are there, I have confidence they'll continue to have good games. If both of them ever leave, then we might have a problem.

[CLW]

So if you 180 from a 180 does that mean its the XBox360 again? Inquiring minds want to know.....

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/11/fans-petition-for-microsoft-to-restore-original-xbox-one-policies

[I OU a Beatn]

No, the 180 they already did made it a 360 version 2.0, which is pretty much what the Xbox One is right now. If they were to go back on their policies (they wont), then it'll be the Xbox One again.

By the way, I signed that petition a few days ago. I'm fine if they leave things the way they are, but I'd love to have the option to have the family share plan, instant game swapping, and automatic installs to the hard drive. Happy to see it reached 15,000 signatures.

[CLW]

No, the 180 they already did made it a 360 version 2.0, which is pretty much what the Xbox One is right now. If they were to go back on their policies (they wont), then it'll be the Xbox One again.

By the way, I signed that petition a few days ago. I'm fine if they leave things the way they are, but I'd love to have the option to have the family share plan, instant game swapping, and automatic installs to the hard drive. Happy to see it reached 15,000 signatures.

I hope they do just so we can see Sony's youtube video response. It would be EPIC. :nod:

[Kingpin32]

They've already made a change at the whim of it's consumers. They really shouldn't do it again, even if it is to go back to their original plan.

[CLW]

They've already made a change at the whim of it's consumers. They really shouldn't do it again, even if it is to go back to their original plan.

Meh turned out o.k. for this guy:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esUTn6L0UDU

[CLW]

Oh yeah and if you think Big Brother won't be listening/watching to you on Kinect:

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/07/11/news-microsofts-alleged-collaboration-with-nsa-surveillance-programs-detailed

[CLW]

MS LIES in response:


We have clear principles which guide the response across our entire company to government demands for customer information for both law enforcement and national security issues.First, we take our commitments to our customers and to compliance with applicable law very seriously, so we provide customer data only in response to legal processes [like the secret court that grants 99.999999999999999999999% of requests so if the government wants it they get it from MS willingly]. Second, our compliance team examines all demands very closely, and we reject them if we believe they aren’t valid. [PROVIDE ALL EXAMPLES WHERE YOU REJECTED NSA, FBI, CIA, ETC...] Third, we only ever comply with orders about specific accounts or identifiers, and we would not respond to the kind of blanket orders discussed in the press over the past few weeks, as the volumes documented in our most recent disclosure clearly illustrate (http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_on_the_issues/archive/2013/06/14/microsoft-s-u-s-law-enforcement-and-national-security-requests-for-last-half-of-2012.aspx). [OUTRIGHT LIE] To be clear, Microsoft does not provide any government with blanket or direct access to SkyDrive, Outlook.com, Skype or any Microsoft product. [OUTRIGHT LIE]
Finally when we upgrade or update products legal obligations may in some circumstances require that we maintain the ability to provide information in response to a law enforcement or national security request. [MAY? WHEN DOES IT NOT?] There are aspects of this debate that we wish we were able to discuss more freely. [YOU HAVE A 1ST AMENDMENT RIGHT SAY IT] That’s why we’ve argued for additional transparency that would help everyone understand and debate these important issues. [YOU DON'T HAVE TO ARGUE FOR YOUR RIGHT TO SPEAK FREELY - JUST DO IT]

what a load of [CENSORED]

[SCClassof93]

Homer response in 4, 3, 2 :D

[morsdraconis]

That report was made 1000% better by having Jason Mewes do it. :nod:

[JBHuskers]

That report was made 1000% better by having Jason Mewes do it. :nod:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0iqz4ento

[I OU a Beatn]

20,000 signatures reached and the most active petition on the site. COME ON, FAMILY SHARING!

[I OU a Beatn]

This guy or Phil Spencer should be the ones running Xbox. From IGN:


Xbox One chief product officer Marc Whitten has responded to the recent fan petition asking Microsoft to re-reverse their Xbox One policies. In an interview with IGN, Whitten lamented Microsoft’s back-and-forth messaging since May, admitting that the company still has a lot to work on when it comes to communicating with consumers.

“I think it’s pretty simple. We’ve got to just talk more, get people understanding what our system is,” Whitten told IGN. “The thing that’s really gratifying is that people are excited about the types of features that are possible, and it’s sort of shame on us that we haven’t done as good of a job as we can to make people feel like that’s where we’re headed.”

“The number one thing I want to do is I want to get the product out, because people are going to use it and obviously a lot of this is more evident, but certainly what I want to do right is now is talk more about how we thought about these features,” he continued. “How we thought about how Xbox Live works, how digital works. I see people feeling like we’ve moved away from digital, when certainly I don’t believe that’s the case. I believe we’ve added on choice for people. It was an addition of a feature onto Xbox One, not a removal of a feature. And I understand people see things like Family Sharing and they’re like, ‘Wow, I was really looking forward to that,’ which is more of an engineering reality time frame type-thing.”

As far as the petition, Whitten believes that kind of response is directly related to Microsoft’s recent ability to communicate its policies.

“What it tells me is we need to do more work to talk about what we’re doing because I think that we did something different than maybe how people are perceiving it,” he said. “When I read some of the things like that petition, from my perspective we took a lot of the feedback and, while Xbox One is built to be digital native, to have this amazing online experience, we realized people wanted some choice. They wanted what I like to call a bridge, sort of how they think about the world today using more digital stuff. What we did, we added to what the console can do by providing physical and offline modes in the console. It isn’t about moving away from what that digital vision is for the platform. It’s about adding that choice. Frankly, I think we need to just do more to let people see how the console works, what they’re going to be able to do for it. I think a lot of the things they’re wishing for are frankly there.”

On the subject of the removed Family Sharing feature, we asked Whitten if any kind of road map is in place to restore the ability to share your digital library with family and friends.

“If it’s something that people are really excited about and want, we’re going to make sure that we find the right way to bring it back,” Whitten said. “A ‘road map’ sort of implies more like ‘on date X it’s back’ than I think exists, but we believe really strongly in how you build a great experience on Xbox One for me as an individual, but also for my family. Family Sharing is a great example of how you do that with content. I think you’re going to see us, both with examples like that and with other things, keep pushing on how that’s something great. An example is some of the stuff we’re doing with what we announced around Gold, where other people in the house get the advantages of Gold when I’m a Gold member. You’re going to see us continue to push in those areas.”

“I probably should have been more clear,” Whitten said about his comments the day the feature was removed. “We took some feedback and realized there was some stuff we needed to add to the program. To add it to the program, we had to make room, just from a pure engineering perspective, to be able to get that work done. So taking Family Sharing out of the launch window was not about ‘we’re going to take our toys and go home’ or something like that. It was just sort of the logistics of ‘how do we get this very, very clear request that people really want, that choice, and how do we make sure we can do an excellent job of that, get to launch, and then be able to build a bunch of great features?’ In the future I think you’re going to see the ways that we change how you discover, how you consume, share, play. To me, this is the magic of digital. You know, if there’s anything I think that Xbox 360 has proven, it’s that we’re super committed to this constant cycle of improving the experience and the software, and it’s what we’ve been doing for 360 for the past seven years, and it’s certainly where we’re going to go with Xbox One.”

When asked if Family Sharing will be locked to particular regions if it returns, Whitten simply told us, “That wouldn’t be our intent. You know, there are different types of content and some of that content just isn’t licensed for certain areas, sometimes around video and sometimes with things like games, and that’s more up to publishers. But outside of that, we wouldn’t be putting any restrictions around it.”

Still, Whitten believes that fans are excited about Xbox One and that more and more positive responses continue to emerge.

“I feel like we have the best online gaming story that’s ever existed,” Whitten said. “When I look at how we built a system that’s built from the ground up to be amazing from a digital perspective, from being able to get updates and what we can do with the cloud and the cloud powering the experiences, to the way that you can switch between experiences, the way you can snap things together, what we’re doing with cloud achievements and challenges, I think people are going to really enjoy the experience. For us, with Xbox Live, we’ve spent the last more than a decade now really obsessing about what that play experience is. You look at things like how we’re thinking about reputation and how it impacts matchmaking or who gets into sessions, or how we’ve thought about things like Party Mode. For me that’s what makes Xbox special and that’s what’s really great about where we are with Xbox One.”

“There’s a lot I’m very proud about what we’ve done with Xbox One,” he continued. “The events were really good. The time we were walking around on stages, the things we were talking about, I think we got a lot of great reaction about the promise that comes from it. One of the things I think we learned was that we didn’t talk enough, and we were incomplete in a lot of how using the system would work. Because we weren’t participating in the conversation in a deep enough way, it got us sort of off cycle about how we talk about our program. I think we’ve learned a lot of lessons. And I think it’s something that you’re going to see a lot more from us, frankly, is engaging more with the community. I think it’s the number one thing I’d want to do if I went back, was have the conversation more open and more complete.”

More than anything, Whitten reiterated that he’s happy to receive feedback, both positive or negative.

“I’ll just say what I’ve said before: this is why I love this space,” he said. “Because there’s nothing like being able to get so much feedback from the things people like and the things people don’t like. It’s, to me, what makes this special. I just don’t even there’s a type of product or anything out there that’s like video games that generates this, and I love it. I think the key for us is, we love core gamers. They’re the people that have built Xbox and Xbox Live. That’s the place where we need to do a better job showing up, and we need to engage more. In fact, that’s what I love about things like the petition. It makes me want to put stuff like that up on our website and just engage much more directly in how do we have these more direct kinds of conversations with people. I think it makes us build better products. I think that’s the key in the end.”

[CLW]

Microsoft: ‘Shame on Us’ for Xbox One MessagingXbox One chief product officer Marc Whitten responds to fans’ concerns.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/12/microsoft-shame-on-us-for-xbox-one-messaging

[I OU a Beatn]

Shows how much you pay attention. Look above you. :D

[I OU a Beatn]

Very interesting stuff from a confirmed One developer who was posting on Reddit:


Q: What was your reaction to the DRM reversal, and now this petition?
A: Personally I was a little surprised at the timeframe which we decided on the DRM reversal. I thought we didn't push on its benefits enough.The petition shows there are lots of people who want these benefits as much as I do and clearly our execs care or Marc Whitten wouldn't have referred to it in his IGN interview.

Q: Just one question, How loud is the console?
A: Almost inaudible. I run three at a time and they are drowned out by the fans in the desktops.

Q: How smooth is the interface right now with the snapping? can you snap between digital games or not? is the TV input lagging like it was in that wired interview?
A: Snapping is only available to certain apps such as IE, Skype, the game DVR upload tool, etc. Game titles cannot be snapped. I have not tried TV input but I did hook up a PC to the Xbox and watched netflix while I skyped someone.

Q: When you say games can't be snapped you mean you can't have them be the smaller view right? You can have other apps next to the game but you can't have IE with Killer Instinct as the smaller snap on the right. Am saying this because you guys showed Killer Instinct with Twitch side by side.
A: Yes, AAA titles cannot be snapped (shown in smaller view). IE can however be snapped to look up how to perform a combination while you play :).

Q: Was the family sharing how everyone imagined it to be like (sharing games with 10 people only 2 game play one at the same time) or was it glorified demos ?
A: It was for full games. Can't comment too much on this but its purpose was to eliminate the need to ever have to physically hand someone a game that you bought to share with them.

Q: Do you know anything about the rumor that Microsoft is upping the clock speed on the retail version? If you can't answer that, do you think that the Xbox One is at disadvantage with it's current specs compared to the PS4?
A: Can't comment on the rumor. The facts are on paper, the PS4 has better specs and the most you can debate is by how much. What I can tell you is I have played Forza, Killer instinct, and Ryse on the Xbox One. They look as good as the games I play on a high end PC. Ryse reminded me of darksiders II.

Other comments:


"The majority of the masses care only about the console, except that the success of the Kinect carries much more weight to us. The sensor costs almost as much as the console to make."

"As I mentioned earlier, I don't know what price point the Xbox One would be at without the Kinect, but it would be much less than 399.

I see it not as a market that no longer exists, but one that haven't been explored due to technological limitations."

The bold part just makes me sad, as that's what I thought it was all along. I read somewhere that they were demos, but that never made sense to me and obviously wasn't the case.

The underline part is interesting as well. I realize it's sold out now anyway, but if they could have sold just the box for $299 or $349, good Lord, they would be rolling in money.

EDIT: more stuff:


Q: Let's cut to the chase. Were the yield rumours true? Are they still true? Is there any truth to the upgrade rumours?
A: Don't know, no official word within the company.

Q: What was everyones reaction at the office after the flaming outcry the day after E3?
A:It was quite moot. One of our execs had mentioned a Sony dev came up to him at E3 and told him you won the games, we won the gamers.

[SmoothPancakes]

Goddamn those bitchers and moaners,most of which probably were people who would never even buy the Xbox One to begin with, but were bitching nonetheless. Family Share was as great as we thought it was, and thanks to those cock sucking whores, we lost it. :(

[I OU a Beatn]

Goddamn those bitchers and moaners,most of which probably were people who would never even buy the Xbox One to begin with, but were bitching nonetheless. Family Share was as great as we thought it was, and thanks to those cock sucking whores, we lost it. :(

I don't think it was all necessarily people who were just bashing it for the sake of bashing it. To be fair, Microsoft really didn't do a very good job of explaining it. For a feature that awesome, they should of explained it in precise detail during the console reveal AND during their E3 conference. They didn't say a single thing about it at either one of those events, and it didn't come out until afterwards when the press was asking questions.

Still, even with the removal, it seems they are definitely listening to feedback and open to bringing it back. You have to remember that with the original One policies, they already had the feature set in place to allow this kind of setup. With how they have it now and not requiring discs to be installed, I'm sure they would have to implement it a different way. Another thing to remember is that they would have to have this approved by 3rd party publishers like EA. I'm sure EA and others were fine with it before, because used games were being cracked down on. With used games returning to how they were, they might not be okay with the fact people would be able to share games.

Like I said, I'm sure it'll come back eventually. It's a GREAT feature and way better than loaning someone your game, so I'm really hoping it makes a return. It was one of my most anticipated features when it was announced.

EDIT: What I think they'll eventually do is bring back what they initially intended, only make it optional. If you have the disc and want to keep the disc, that's fine, you don't have to be online once every 24 hours, but you need to keep the disc and you can't share it. If you want to install the disc to your account, then you can share it and you no longer need the disc, but you need to connect once every 24 hours. Seems like a simple enough system to implement and something that would benefit and appeal to everyone.

[CLW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YVzNxbryJ4o

Gamers booing XB1. My kind of Peeps. :nod:

[I OU a Beatn]

That's funny, but I'm about 99% sure they were booing Killer Instinct, not the One.

Personally, I never understood what anyone saw in Killer Instinct. The fact that it's free to play makes me not want it that much more.

[JBHuskers]

That's funny, but I'm about 99% sure they were booing Killer Instinct, not the One.

Personally, I never understood what anyone saw in Killer Instinct. The fact that it's free to play makes me not want it that much more.

It was cool. When I was 15 playing SNES.

[Escobar]

I'm 100% sure they were booing the XBOX1. The boo's didn't come out until he said exclusively for the XBOX1...

[Escobar]

Q: Do you know anything about the rumor that Microsoft is upping the clock speed on the retail version? If you can't answer that, do you think that the Xbox One is at disadvantage with it's current specs compared to the PS4?
A: Can't comment on the rumor. The facts are on paper, the PS4 has better specs and the most you can debate is by how much.

:P

[oweb26]

I really need to decide which pre-order I am going to keep if either!

[I OU a Beatn]

I'm 100% sure they were booing the XBOX1. The boo's didn't come out until he said exclusively for the XBOX1...

Yes, they were booing the fact it was exclusive to the One. As I said on the N4G comments section of this "news," I don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that they were booing the one. That would be like saying the crowd at E3 a few years ago was booing the Xbox 360 when they booed about Metal Gear Rising coming to Xbox. They're not booing the console, they're booing the fact that (in this case) it's exclusive to the One or (in my case) Metal Gear was no longer exclusive to PS.

As for the specs, I've said all along that the PS4 would be more powerful because of how much stronger the GPU is. I read on a few forums that the quote you just quoted "is finally confirmation of that," but that's hardly the case. It's been know since the respective reveals the PS4 would be better specs wise, which I stated numerous times. I guess people just glaze over the stuff I post. :D

Regardless, you still wont be able to tell on games on both consoles. Developers always develop with the weaker console in mind, especially now since they're both using very similar architecture. If it runs on the lower one, then it'll sure as hell run on the more powerful one - done deal! After a few years I'm sure Sony's exclusives will look amazing, but it wont be some jaw dropping difference.

The main decision with consumers is going to be:

1. Do I have a loyalty that I want to stick with? If so, obvious choice.
2. If not, will I use Kinect?
3. Do I want these TV features?
4. Can I justify an additional $100 on these things?

For me, they have Titanfall. Done deal. :D

I'm probably getting a PS4, too, if only to play Killzone.

[I OU a Beatn]

I really need to decide which pre-order I am going to keep if either!

For God's sake don't cancel the other like some of my idiot friends did. They're going to go for $1000+ when they inevitably run out a few weeks before launch and people are scrambling for one.

[CLW]

For God's sake don't cancel the other like some of my idiot friends did. They're going to go for $1000+ when they inevitably run out a few weeks before launch and people are scrambling for one.

Yep it looks like supply is going to be LOW this holiday season. Best to keep both and sell the one you don't want (or both if you can stomach waiting until the supply/demand issues are resolved)

[I OU a Beatn]

Yep it looks like supply is going to be LOW this holiday season. Best to keep both and sell the one you don't want (or both if you can stomach waiting until the supply/demand issues are resolved)

Yeah, it's going to be worse than other years I believe. PS4, even with it's supposedly "unlimited" supply is going to be extremely hard to find. The One, regardless of it's demand, is going to be the same way because of how low their manufacturing numbers are going to be. I have my consoles ordered and then an extra one for each. If there's one thing you can count on, it's dumb people on eBay paying ridiculous amounts of money for stupid stuff.

[Kingpin32]

Yeah, it's going to be worse than other years I believe. PS4, even with it's supposedly "unlimited" supply is going to be extremely hard to find. The One, regardless of it's demand, is going to be the same way because of how low their manufacturing numbers are going to be. I have my consoles ordered and then an extra one for each. If there's one thing you can count on, it's dumb people on eBay paying ridiculous amounts of money for stupid stuff.

If I wasn't paying off my PS4 throughout the summer, I probably would've preordered a XBone just to sell on Ebay.

[AustinWolv]

I really need to decide which pre-order I am going to keep if either!

Eh, you can just send me the XB1 for your good deed for the year. I'll even send you money for it.

[CLW]

Why people are passing on XB1

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/16/why-are-some-ign-readers-passing-on-xbox-one

[morsdraconis]

Why people are passing on XB1

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/16/why-are-some-ign-readers-passing-on-xbox-one

Interesting. The top 2 are definitely on my list as well, though nothing about the bullshit Kinect "features" which is my #1 reason for never buying one.

[I OU a Beatn]

The one doesn't make any sense. According to them, the 2nd most important factor was exclusive games, but the One had a way better showing in that area.

I'd say the huge PR debacle was the biggest one for most people, followed by the price.

[AustinWolv]

Why people are passing on XB1

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/16/why-are-some-ign-readers-passing-on-xbox-one

So price is stated as to why not to buy one as the most important thing, but then the PS4 poll shows that it is the 5th reason to buy a PS4?
And all the people crying about used games and such to blast XB1 don't even rank those very high as to why not buy XB1?

The only thing that aligns is the PS4 buyers ranking specs high and non-Xb1 users ranking specs high. Hmmmmm, sounds like the polls match there because they were asking the same crowd...........
Hey, why do you love PS4?
Hey, why do you hate XB1?

Specs, specs, specs! (and throw in exclusive games.......)

ROFL.

[morsdraconis]

The one doesn't make any sense. According to them, the 2nd most important factor was exclusive games, but the One had a way better showing in that area.

I'd say the huge PR debacle was the biggest one for most people, followed by the price.

If no one is interested in Halo, Titanfall, or Forza, then why should they buy a XBONE when every other game for it is also coming to the PS4?

[AustinWolv]

On the flip side, why should someone buy a PS4 if not into Watch Dogs?

Killzone is another FPS that some people are bashing Xb1 for just being a FPS console. Tie.

Knack? Seriously? Might be fun, but resting hopes on that as an exclusive?

Infamous effects look pretty cool, but I can play 3rd person games on XB, right? ;)

DriveClub. Ok, compete with Forza. Tie at best, except Forza has been great to play with the history to prove it. Will DriveClub and why buy a console based on that gamble?

The Order trailer looks slick.......need to see gameplay. Another 3rd person shooter. So um yeah, since I'm not into God of War like that studio has done in the past. In other words, that exclusive list isn't any more appealing than you say XB1's isn't.

[I OU a Beatn]

If no one is interested in Halo, Titanfall, or Forza, then why should they buy a XBONE when every other game for it is also coming to the PS4?

Because they said exclusives were the deciding factor for them. Dead Rising 3, Forza 5, Ryze, Titanfall, Halo 5(or whatever it is), Killer Instinct, Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive vs. Killzone Shadow Fall, Knack, Driveclub, The Order 1886, inFAMOUS Second Son.

They had more of them and a lot of them are comparable to each other. First person shooter, racing game, 3rd person action adventure, etc...

Xbox One had more of them, a higher quality (I realize you personallymay not like it, but Titanfall was clearly the best game at E3), so I don't see why that many people would say current exclusives are the most important factor when Sony is clearly lacking in that area right now. Maybe they meant potential exclusives in the future and not just confirmed ones?

[AustinWolv]

Maybe they meant potential exclusives in the future and not just confirmed ones?
Sony has said they'll have more exclusives over the course of the first year than XB1, so perhaps that was a factor?

[I OU a Beatn]

That's the only thing it could be because like I said, Xbox One clearly had the better exclusives. Hell, one of the Sony developers even said so. :D

Now if we're talking "I prefer Uncharted, God of War, etc..." over "Halo, Forza, etc..." then I can understand that. If they're just going by what's been revealed, then I'm a little puzzled.

[CLW]

Look I filled out the survey and Sony's exclusives was my #1 factor b/c of The Show; Naughty Dog; etc.... MS' FPS exclusives do nothing for me. Perhaps people were considering other studios that haven't announced titles yet or release dates but we know they are coming.

[I OU a Beatn]

Look I filled out the survey and Sony's exclusives was my #1 factor b/c of The Show; Naughty Dog; etc.... MS' FPS exclusives do nothing for me. Perhaps people were considering other studios that haven't announced titles yet or release dates but we know they are coming.

That's...exactly what I said. :D

[Kingpin32]

That's...exactly what I said. :D

Wait, did y'all just agree on something??

[I OU a Beatn]

Wait, did y'all just agree on something??

We agree all the time! He just words his comments in a way that makes people think that we're disagreeing. Must be the lawyer in him. :D :P

[gschwendt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzBmQMyYDBk

[CLW]

Wait, did y'all just agree on something??

Don't let IOU fool you I never agree with him but from time to time he stumbles on to the right opinion. Even a broken clock is correct two times each day. :nod:


We agree all the time! He just words his comments in a way that makes people think that we're disagreeing. Must be the lawyer in him. :D :P

Wrong. See above. :nod:

[I OU a Beatn]

Wrong. See above. :nod:

:D


That's the only thing it could be because like I said, Xbox One clearly had the better exclusives. Hell, one of the Sony developers even said so. :D

Now if we're talking "I prefer Uncharted, God of War, etc..." over "Halo, Forza, etc..." then I can understand that. If they're just going by what's been revealed, then I'm a little puzzled.

Barely 20 minutes later:


Look I filled out the survey and Sony's exclusives was my #1 factor b/c of The Show; Naughty Dog; etc.... MS' FPS exclusives do nothing for me. Perhaps people were considering other studios that haven't announced titles yet or release dates but we know they are coming.

It is literally the exact same thing and you do that ALL THE TIME! That's why I always wonder if you even read my posts. :D

[CLW]

:D



Barely 20 minutes later:



It is literally the exact same thing and you do that ALL THE TIME! That's why I always wonder if you even read my posts. :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFk2_5RkwlA

[AustinWolv]

ROFL^^^^

You guys are so cute playing together.

:P

[SCClassof93]

ROFL^^^^

You guys are so cute playing together.

:P

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/graphene_gfx/Ryan%20Reynolds%20GIFS/SNICKER.gif

[I OU a Beatn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78g59V4US2M

:clap:

[AustinWolv]

Xbox One features discussed: @ ComicCon (http://www.denofgeek.us/games/xbox-one/157901/new-xbox-one-features-revealed)

Gameplay recording
Controller recognition
Kinect/avatar personalization

[I OU a Beatn]

The recording features on both the PS4 and the One are going to be next to useless. 15 minutes and 5 minutes? Why the hell even bother? Huge waste of time.

[CLW]

The recording features on both the PS4 and the One are going to be next to useless. 15 minutes and 5 minutes? Why the hell even bother? Huge waste of time.

Yep here is hoping the Elgato works on my PS4.

[Kingpin32]

The recording features on both the PS4 and the One are going to be next to useless. 15 minutes and 5 minutes? Why the hell even bother? Huge waste of time.

I assume it's mainly for quick sharing. Like "ah that was a cool moment" not for full on gaming sessions. I'm pretty sure it isn't trying to replace your traditional recording method.

[I OU a Beatn]

I assume it's mainly for quick sharing. Like "ah that was a cool moment" not for full on gaming sessions. I'm pretty sure it isn't trying to replace your traditional recording method.

There may not be any other methods. Component cables aren't being implemented in either one of them, and if they both use HDCP for HDMI, then I don't see any way capture cards would work anymore. They've both been really quiet regarding whether their system uses HDCP, so I'm assuming that's a bad thing.

[morsdraconis]

Yep here is hoping the Elgato works on my PS4.

They have streaming to Ustream and Twitch respectively. Why do you need local recording? Everything is available forever on whatever streaming service you're using and can easily be uploaded to Youtube.

[Kingpin32]

There may not be any other methods. Component cables aren't being implemented in either one of them, and if they both use HDCP for HDMI, then I don't see any way capture cards would work anymore. They've both been really quiet regarding whether their system uses HDCP, so I'm assuming that's a bad thing.

Didn't know that was how the recorders worked. Well then what Mors is saying is even more in play now.

[I OU a Beatn]

This goes against everything I've read and been told, but according to this guy, the One will out ship the PS4 this year (doesn't mean sold, just number of units shipped to retailers):


Colin Sebastian says supply chain checks show Microsoft's new system gaining momentum, fate of Wii U rests on holiday software lineup

Microsoft's reversal on controversial Xbox One user restrictions may be paying off. According to an investors note from Baird analyst Colin Sebastian today, the Xbox One appears to have recovered from its early stumbles.

"Despite losing the headline battle at E3, Microsoft's Xbox One appears to be regaining some momentum, in part due to the used and online policy tweaks. Importantly, our supply chain checks suggest Microsoft may have the benefit of a 2-3x unit advantage at launch compared to Sony's PS4."

Sebastian expects both systems to run into supply shortages at launch. He added that the $100 price gap between the Xbox One and PS4 won't matter as much in the launch window as the core audience of early adopters are less likely to balk at paying a premium for the system they want. Even so, Microsoft is "working with channel partners to lessen the gap," Sebastian noted.

As for the Wii U, Sebastian said Nintendo's console continues to struggle. He said it needs a price cut, adding that "the fate of the platform will likely rest on the popularity of Nintendo's holiday software lineup."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-07-23-xbox-one-could-outship-ps4-3-to-1-this-year

[CLW]

This goes against everything I've read and been told, but according to this guy, the One will out ship the PS4 this year (doesn't mean sold, just number of units shipped to retailers):



http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-07-23-xbox-one-could-outship-ps4-3-to-1-this-year

Yeah that would be contrary to every other report on the web. We shall see.

[Kingpin32]

So Microsoft is rumored to release multiple SKUs next year:

According to an anonymous source, speaking with Machinima's Inside Gaming Daily (http://www.insidegamingdaily.com/2013/07/23/xbox-one-to-release-in-kinect-less-bundle-in-2014/), Microsoft is planning on launching a cheaper, Kinect-less Xbox One (http://www.complex.com/video-games/2013/06/swery65s-d4-promises-an-insane-murder-mystery-video) in the summer of 2014.The sources informed the site that Microsoft has two bundles planned for a release some time in the middle of next year. There will be a standard bundle shipped minus the Kinect, and a cheaper, budget package containing an Xbox One with a smaller hard drive to challenge Sony's price of the PS4.
So the break down would look something like this:

Day 1 bundle (Holiday Season 2013): 500 GB HDD with a Kinect $500
Second bundle: No Kinect, Summer 2104, $??
Economy bundle: Smaller HDD, No Kinect, Summer 2014, Less than $400

This news goes against previous reports from Microsoft that the Xbox One won't function without a Kinect, but if Microsoft is planning on multiple iterations of the console to be released, then perhaps this has been their plan all along.
Either way, we love this news. What do you think? is this a strategy that has been in place from the beginning or is this a retro-fitted solution to user's vocal concerns about price and privacy? (http://www.complex.com/video-games/2013/07/microsoft-xbox-one-nsa-spying-concerns) Let us know what you think.
http://www.complex.com/video-games/2013/07/microsoft-xbox-one-minus-kinect-summer

[SmoothPancakes]

Honestly, if that's true, I'd be tempted to wait until the Kinect-less version comes out in summer 2014. The whole "they're watching you" with Kinect crap, meh, I can turn off the camera, block the camera and microphone, etc. But I honestly have no clue what the hell I'd use Kinect for. Other than some of my usual buys (Halo, Assassin's Creed, Ghost Recon), if they happen to integrate Kinect into the game play, I'd never use it. In that case, I'd go for the 500 GB HDD, non-Kinect version.

[I OU a Beatn]

I highly doubt that's true. The main reason it was required is so that developers knew every Xbox One owner had one so they could incorporate it. The entire system is designed around it (a lot of the functions can only be done through voice control). Not to mention it would alienate the early adopters of the console. I could be wrong, but I have a hard time believing it.

[Kingpin32]

Microsoft has denied rumors that they intend to release an Xbox One bundle without Kinect, telling Kotaku they have "no plans" to do so.Yesterday, the website Inside Gaming Daily (http://www.insidegamingdaily.com/2013/07/23/xbox-one-to-release-in-kinect-less-bundle-in-2014/) reported that Microsoft plans to release a Kinect-free Xbox One bundle next summer, citing "an anonymous source familiar with the matter."

Inside Gaming Daily writes: "This contradicts Microsoft’s repeated implication that the Xbox One won’t function without a Kinect attached, but it’s sounding more and more like that’s a bit of PR smoke just to get the Kinect in people’s homes,"
But Microsoft says that's not true.

"We have no plans to introduce an Xbox One without Kinect," a spokesperson said this afternoon. "We believe in Kinect and the value it brings to both games and entertainment, and believe $499 is a great value for what consumers receive with their Xbox One."

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-shoots-down-rumors-of-kinect-free-xbox-one-bu-897031441

[oweb26]

I hope its true, if so I too will hold out.

[CLW]

I highly doubt that's true. The main reason it was required is so that developers knew every Xbox One owner had one so they could incorporate it. The entire system is designed around it (a lot of the functions can only be done through voice control). Not to mention it would alienate the early adopters of the console. I could be wrong, but I have a hard time believing it.

Meh. XB1's ENTIRE SYSTEM was also designed around "Always On" / DRM and look how long that lasted. Just sayin'.

[I OU a Beatn]

360134265767342082

Personally, I couldn't care less because I rarely play Indie games (except gems like Hotline Miami, Bastion, Mark of the Ninja, etc...), but I guess this is good for everyone and bad for no one.

[I OU a Beatn]

Every single Xbox One can be used to make games, Microsoft says—in other words, you can use the next-gen console as your very own development kit.

UPDATE: But not at launch. Microsoft's Marc Whitten just told us that devkit functionality will be added at a later date.

The Xbox 360 was a closed system, but it appears that its successor will be far more open. In a statement to Kotaku today confirming news that leaked earlier on Game Informer, Xbox's corporate vice president Marc Whitten said that all Xbox Ones will function as development kits, which are usually only available to licensed developers.

Here's Microsoft's official comment:

Our vision is that every person can be a creator. That every Xbox One can be used for development. That every game and experience can take advantage of all of the features of Xbox One and Xbox LIVE. This means self-publishing. This means Kinect, the cloud, achievements. This means great discoverability on Xbox LIVE. We'll have more details on the program and the timeline at gamescom in August.

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-every-xbox-one-can-be-used-to-make-games-up-898750954

[CLW]

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-every-xbox-one-can-be-used-to-make-games-up-898750954

LMAO we have something great coming we promise. Trust us after dropping an extra $100 over our #1 competitor. :nod:

[I OU a Beatn]

LMAO we have something great coming we promise.

So...you obviously feel the same way about Gaikai, right? :D

[CLW]

So...you obviously feel the same way about Gaikai, right? :D

Yep not buying PS4 for Gaikai nor should anyone else. If that is something a PS4 consumer wants they should WAIT X years before it is in place.

[I OU a Beatn]

No argument there. However, you're implying someone is going to fork over $400 or $500 just so they can play indie titles that are self published, which no one is going to do. Point being, it's a NICE feature but it's hardly a system seller.

I read another article that the self publishing and every Xbox One being a DK wont be available at launch, but will be within the first year. Again, it wont ever appeal to me personally, but nice for those who really wanted it.

Personally, I can't WAIT to read Johnathan Blow's opinion on this. I'm sure the pompous ass will still find something to complain about, though.

[CLW]

No argument there. However, you're implying someone is going to fork over $400 or $500 just so they can play indie titles that are self published, which no one is going to do. Point being, it's a NICE feature but it's hardly a system seller.

I read another article that the self publishing and every Xbox One being a DK wont be available at launch, but will be within the first year. Again, it wont ever appeal to me personally, but nice for those who really wanted it.

Personally, I can't WAIT to read Johnathan Blow's opinion on this. I'm sure the pompous ass will still find something to complain about, though.

To me the ? is will Indy Developers even care. From what I have read it seems like there is a STRONG "hate" for MS in the "indy world" so it may be all for not at this point I don't know.'

I do know that the Sony crowd seems to care allot more about Indy games than the MS crowd so they prob still won't sell regardless so why bother putting it out on XB1.

[I OU a Beatn]

Xbox is home to some of the best indie games of this generation. Castle Crashers, Minecraft, Deadlight, Mark of the Ninja, State of Decay, Battleblock Theater, Limbo, Dust, Super Meat Boy, Splosion Man series, Dishwasher series, etc...were all wildly successful on Xbox Live and most of those are only available on Live or PC.

Much like how Microsoft has pissed off certain developers, Sony has done the same. Super Meat Boy is the one the immediately jumps to mind. They launched on 360 and even went as far as to sign a contract that their game will never appear on PS3 because they said Sony showed no interest. Don't believe all the horseshit Sony feeds you. Both of these companies are guilty of screwing over developers. Plain a simple - if Sony/Microsoft don't think a developer's game is going to sell, they're not going to go out of their way to help it out.

The main indie developers I've seen complaining about Microsoft are Johnathan Blow and Phil Fish. Fish is still mad about the patch costs (which are now gone) and Blow is just a moron who spews BS to sound important. There are way more developers that are more than willing to work with Microsoft as opposed to those who wont.

[bdoughty]

Xbox is home to some of the best indie games of this generation. Castle Crashers, Minecraft, Deadlight, Mark of the Ninja, State of Decay, Battleblock Theater, Limbo, Dust, Super Meat Boy, Splosion Man series, Dishwasher series, etc...were all wildly successful on Xbox Live and most of those are only available on Live or PC.


Shadow Complex, Toy Soldiers, Trials HD and Evolution are not an etc... Just more reminders that Xbox is the place when it comes to Indie games on a console.


P.S. You two need to get a room.
P.S.S. CLW needs to make that room in a PS3/PS4 thread because he keeps shitting up Xbox threads.

[I OU a Beatn]

Shadow Complex, Toy Soldiers, Trials HD and Evolution are not an etc... Just even more reminders that Xbox is the place when it comes to Indie games on a console.


P.S. You two need to get a room.
P.S.S. CLW needs to make that room in a PS3/PS4 thread because he keeps shitting up Xbox threads.

Shadow Complex is my favorite download title ever. I just don't think it's considered indie since it was helped along by Epic, but if we're counting that, then sure. Shadow Complex is just another perfect example. People are way too quick to listen to the BS of just a few angry developers who haven't had a good experience versus the much larger group who has. It's especially funny to me because Xbox Live has WAY more quality indie titles.

I could probably list at least 30 really good indie titles that are only available on Xbox/PC, and are only available on those platforms because Microsoft helped them out.

[SmoothPancakes]

I'll be honest, outside of a couple random games, like indie-produced college lacrosse games (being a big lacrosse fan, indie-produced is the only way to enjoy some video game lacrosse), I really had never given indie games much thought. A lot of them seemed like something ripped out of the Nintendo and PS1 days, graphics were awful, I've never cared for side-scrollers (which a large portion all seemed to be), etc.

But after State of Decay, I'm willing to look more at indie games. Between being able to self-publish, and every Xbox One eventually being a DK, hopefully that means we'll see better and better indie games coming out and I'll have to start paying more attention to those that are released.

[bdoughty]

Shadow Complex is my favorite download title ever. I just don't think it's considered indie since it was helped along by Epic, but if we're counting that, then sure. Shadow Complex is just another perfect example. People are way too quick to listen to the BS of just a few angry developers who haven't had a good experience versus the much larger group who has. It's especially funny to me because Xbox Live has WAY more quality indie titles.

I could probably list at least 30 really good indie titles that are only available on Xbox/PC, and are only available on those platforms because Microsoft helped them out.


Not to mention that they have a complete section for Indie developers outside the arcade games( XBLIG). Sure, there is a lot of crap out there but the games are cheap and you get demos for every game. It gives beginners a chance to develop games. There is also a few gems in the batch. Cthulhu Saves The World, Avatar Golf, I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MBIES!!!1, Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness Episode 3, some interesting Minecraft clones, the two Apple Jack Games, Toy Stunt Bike, Avatar Legends, Beat Hazzard... Just to name some of the ones I have played.

Edit: I love Lacrosse and supported each of the Lacrosse games (3 college and the indoor pro game) that one guy made. They are not great but it is something and a place where a guy can get his chance to create a pretty niche sports title.