The Gaming Tailgate: NCAA Football 12 Preview

[Rudy]

I'd love to hear about new sliders - fumbles, injuries, stamina, pass coverage - man and zone, etc. Does this fall under Play Now to discuss or do I have to wait to hear about new sliders and options potentially?

[jaymo76]

Look at this example of zone coverage in the G4 video. The defender in coverage at the 1:55 mark bounced back and forth twice with little penalty at all for change of direction. The fact this video was showcased as a positive is not a good thing imo. You could never do something like that in the PS2 version. #ClassicMomentumOption

Yeah that's the clip I was refering to in my original post. The movement pattern of that safety (and his great leaping abilities) scared me. Improved zone and hyper-coverage with momentum on a dime could do real damage to this game. Now, I will stay open-minded until the demo but the scene gives me nightmares as of right now.

[JeffHCross]

Just thought of a question after listening to the podcast (great job btw). When it comes to 2nd hits on the ball carriers has there been any logic added for fumbles? If you're in the grasp does it matter if you 'protect the ball'?

There were a lot more fumbles than I would have expected during the most recent event, but it was unclear as to the cause. I don't immediately recall seeing any double-hit-caused-fumbles, but I also didn't see that many double-hits in my game. I think the lower ratings of the teams I was playing with was the leading cause.

[JeffHCross]

Look at this example of zone coverage in the G4 video. The defender in coverage at the 1:55 mark bounced back and forth twice with little penalty at all for change of direction.

Yeah, immediately when the trailer came out, this stuck out to me like a sore thumb.

Yeah that's the clip I was refering to in my original post.

All I can really tell you guys is that I played a ton of zone with 12, and while I had my fair share of defenders making plays, I don't remember anything ridiculous occurring, certainly not like in that clip.

EDIT: Also, Oregon has a couple of possibly highly rated guys returning at safety. Hard to tell who that was, but it's something to keep in mind.

[Deuce]

There were a lot more fumbles than I would have expected during the most recent event, but it was unclear as to the cause. I don't immediately recall seeing any double-hit-caused-fumbles, but I also didn't see that many double-hits in my game. I think the lower ratings of the teams I was playing with was the leading cause.

Thanks. Not really a big deal...just wondering how detailed they got.

[steelerfan]

Yeah that's the clip I was refering to in my original post. The movement pattern of that safety (and his great leaping abilities) scared me. Improved zone and hyper-coverage with momentum on a dime could do real damage to this game. Now, I will stay open-minded until the demo but the scene gives me nightmares as of right now.

Keep in mind that 11's demo fell far short of the finished product. I wouldn't put all my marbles in the demo's basket.

You have 8 guys here that have between like 60 and 120 hours each with the game and none of us are worried about improved zones.

[steelerfan]

That's what I think too, stride length is a direct tie in to speed.

However I have a completely different opinion on the effect, but it wouldn't be 3 strides for every 2 currently, it'd be more like 2 1/2 for 2. I have 3 variances that does/would make this a positive over a negative.

1. Tighter Animations: Because of the shortened strides, all ball carrier moves naturally just a become little tighter and a little more up-field rather than lateral, making moves seem more realistic. We've all heard the phrase "get north and south" for a ball carrier, and this would essentially do that to the game. It might be subtle but would make a huge difference.

The other variance here will be making sure that weight is properly carried with the faster/shiftier ball carriers when slowing down, stopping and moving laterally.

2. New Defender "slip/juke" animations: IRL if a defender gets juked, he rarely actually slips sideways (like they do on the game), unless he is on a slick field. Instead more often than not a defender gets "stuck" for just a split second planting in the ground, leaning or half stepping the wrong way, and either reaches out or lunges at the ball carrier. Only a single 1/2 step is the difference between solid and weak contact on a ball carrier most of the time, but only the shiftiest backs can make a guy miss completely.

The other variance here is making sure that weight is properly carried to defenders in pursuit. If a ball carrier suddenly slows down in the open field after the defender has the angle, that angle should change and allow for a ball carrier to move laterally and cut back across his face, IF the ball carrier has the lateral and acceleration skills to do it. *In this case the defender should stay on his path for no less than 2 to 3 steps depending on his pursuit ratings. I personally would love to see a "Change of Direction" rating added to the game with a direct tie in to the weight of the player, giving the game an added and natural "weight", and making the plays I am describing possible.

3. New Collision Engine: In the current build of the game, a juke animation results in a defender "sliding" past the ball carrier, no matter when or where the juke happens in relation to the defender. Maybe the guys that played the game can say if the new collision system removing suction from tackling alleviated this issue? If so all we'd need are a few new animations and BOOM!

Which is kinda my point. Fixing stride lengths may require new mo-capping and several other tweaks. It sounds more like a request for 13, to me, than a reasonable fix for 12 at this point.

[ram29jackson]

I never hardly get or pay attention to Demo's anyway

[steelerfan]

I'd say for an issue like player momentum that what we see is what we'll get 99.9% of the time. The reason I say this is because it isn't an error. It's a conscious decision to have the game play this way. The devs want super control over the players and the game has played like this for the last 5 years. The only way we'll see more player momentum is if they offer us an option in the game because the default settings won't be different from the videos we've seen in this area.

Agree to disagree.

[Wolverines05]

That's what I think too, stride length is a direct tie in to speed.

However I have a completely different opinion on the effect, but it wouldn't be 3 strides for every 2 currently, it'd be more like 2 1/2 for 2. I have 3 variances that does/would make this a positive over a negative.

1. Tighter Animations: Because of the shortened strides, all ball carrier moves naturally just a become little tighter and a little more up-field rather than lateral, making moves seem more realistic. We've all heard the phrase "get north and south" for a ball carrier, and this would essentially do that to the game. It might be subtle but would make a huge difference.

The other variance here will be making sure that weight is properly carried with the faster/shiftier ball carriers when slowing down, stopping and moving laterally.

2. New Defender "slip/juke" animations: IRL if a defender gets juked, he rarely actually slips sideways (like they do on the game), unless he is on a slick field. Instead more often than not a defender gets "stuck" for just a split second planting in the ground, leaning or half stepping the wrong way, and either reaches out or lunges at the ball carrier. Only a single 1/2 step is the difference between solid and weak contact on a ball carrier most of the time, but only the shiftiest backs can make a guy miss completely.

The other variance here is making sure that weight is properly carried to defenders in pursuit. If a ball carrier suddenly slows down in the open field after the defender has the angle, that angle should change and allow for a ball carrier to move laterally and cut back across his face, IF the ball carrier has the lateral and acceleration skills to do it. *In this case the defender should stay on his path for no less than 2 to 3 steps depending on his pursuit ratings. I personally would love to see a "Change of Direction" rating added to the game with a direct tie in to the weight of the player, giving the game an added and natural "weight", and making the plays I am describing possible.

3. New Collision Engine: In the current build of the game, a juke animation results in a defender "sliding" past the ball carrier, no matter when or where the juke happens in relation to the defender. Maybe the guys that played the game can say if the new collision system removing suction from tackling alleviated this issue? If so all we'd need are a few new animations and BOOM!

Exactly! This is perfect!

also ive noticed a couple things in replay while in practice mode. it may be that the players kind of glide while in stride, and therefore cover an abnormal amount of ground. for example, when the player is running straight ahead, and both feet are in the air, (right foot about to come forward about to touch the ground, left foot still back) the player kinda glides forward a little bit. it may be here where the player covers maybe another half yard. if this is indeed the problem, it is definitely fixable before launch. it wouldnt be perfect, but considering that players can take up to 3 yard strides, cutting an extra half yard would definitely help, and make the game more realistic. and i could live with that. but again, see denard in that video take his first two steps off the zone read for 6 yards is disgusting both aesthetically and gameplay wise. if strides were able to be capped at 2.5 yds, the game would def. feel more natural, and then the real fix could come in ncaa 13.

also, while im not completely sure about the gliding on straightaway runs, it is definitely noticeable when looking at the qb in the pocket. if you take your qb and move him right or left, (not sprinting, just moving around in pocket) his movements definitely don't look natural, and it is easy to see him kind of glide further. qb movements in the pocket are supposed to be small, but you can actually cover a fair amount of ground just pressing left or right because of this gliding effect. this gliding also applies to defender movements (backpedaling/lateral movements). just look at the oregon player in that clip.

so definitely check this out to see if gliding may be taking place. if so, i definitely think the devs can solve that before release.

[Wolverines05]

just some general questions:

1. i feel like ai qb's only moved right in the pocket, and never left. really odd and dont know why this happened. did you see qb's move in all directions in the pocket?

2. would ai qb's go deep, even if there was a guy more open in the flat? generally, ai qb's tend to go to the most open receiver, so if it was late in game/3rd and long, qb's would often take short passes for minimal yardage. i feel like ai qb's dont have progressions, and as a result, the best receiver on the team doesn't get the ball nearly enough. just curious as to any enhancements made to qb ai.

3. i know you said motivation is not in the game, but what about player confidence. idk if this was only for qb's in ncaa 09/10, (feature where you could guess what play defense called to gain back composure) or for every player. i think this was awesome in last gen, and was wondering if there is hidden code for player confidence in the game.

4. yeah theres the debate about whether home field advantage should be in the game, because that might give an unfair advantage to the home team. easy solution: make it an option to put HFA on or off.

5. on depth charts, will it now show you the most relevant attributes to a player's position. for example, if i scroll down to my kicker, i don't want to go all the way to the right to find kicker accuracy/power. im guessing this would be a fairly easy thing to implement. it would just make things easier in general.

6. if any of you played with a triple option team, is the animation for handing the ball off to the fullback sped up/changed at all? because i think long animation is what made fullbacks no threat at all. also, any changes to animations for handoffs on zone reads or things like that?

7. i know about the custom sound feature, and i looked at the thread on custom sounds for all teams, which is awesome. have the devs done any of that work for us by putting some awesome band music in the game, like zelda, star wars, stuff like that? maybe they need the rights to music like that. idk

8. is lee corso in play now games? did the devs tell you why he was missing last year? also, does taking him out enable the other two to have a lot more lines?

[jaymo76]

Keep in mind that 11's demo fell far short of the finished product. I wouldn't put all my marbles in the demo's basket.

You have 8 guys here that have between like 60 and 120 hours each with the game and none of us are worried about improved zones.

That sounds good! I look forward to seeing it for myself this summer.

[Jayrah]

Isn't this what the agility rating is suppose to do?

Yes. I forgot about that. You're right, but I guess I just really havent seen that particular rating in play

[MacDiiddy]

Great stuff guys, I literally wasted WAY too much time reading all the comments and questions on here

I have a few questions.


1. I doubt any of you did, but I'll ask anyways. Did anyone play with the flexbone playbook (Navy, Georgia Tech, Paul Johnson). It had some pretty big flaws in it. 3 main flaws come to mind. The QB screen (I couldnt even get this to work in practice mode against no defense), Anything Play Action (but then again that was the flaw of 2011 in general), and the most concerning for me.....the Option pass. It worked great in 2010, but in 2011 it was quite broken. The QB would at times keep dropping back and never pass the ball, that and the playside DE would ruin the play almost all the time.

I like to run 90 percent of the time and pass 10 percent, like most option teams (i.e. Georgia Tec). The problem is when I need that option pass to work, to torch a defense that is cheating sooo bad to stop the run, I get destroyed.

Anyway, have any of you played with this playbook...if so, thoughts?


2. How are the sidelines? I know they have made strides in this area over the past couple seasons, but I hope to get to the point where the sidelines are just packed with bodies, like any FBS football team.


3. This was sort of addressed previously about special teams (with the comment that there really wasn't any change), but do you think there will be any chance of blocked kicks this year? I can not remember the last time I had a blocked kick.....I think I recall a year where there was a glitch for PAT's but still.....when you play dynasty and it is year 2019 and you have not seen one blocked kick.....ever....i mean, if its in the game, its in the game.

Likewise, I guess this means no variations to the punt game. I would like to see the Shield Punt, the rugby punt, or the quick punt (Lined up in a spread formation and QB punts the ball).


4. Did you notice any "Fun" plays or "Bastard" formations. I.e. South Carolina has always had that one set of formation/plays, where their were three Olinemen in the box and the rest where out on the hashes.....or ofcourse all the boise plays they added that one year.


---TE--T----------------G--C--G------------------------T--TE------
--WR----------------------QB-----------------------------WR------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------HB------------------------------------

5. I think this counts under play now, because this is an issue when viewing rosters, but is the lag time between rosters and menu's fixed? I know that got quite annoying, esp. menus while playing dynasty mode.

[VWEBBJR]

This was probably hit upon already, but did you guys hear any authentic crowd chants?
For instance, at Missouri home game they say... M-I-Z then the other side of the stadium they say Z-O-U...?

[gschwendt]

This was probably hit upon already, but did you guys hear any authentic crowd chants?
For instance, at Missouri home game they say... M-I-Z then the other side of the stadium they say Z-O-U...?

I didn't but then again I wasn't necessarily listening for them either. That said, cdj or Kwizzy one mentioned that they heard "Husker" ... "Power".

[gschwendt]

1. I doubt any of you did, but I'll ask anyways. Did anyone play with the flexbone playbook (Navy, Georgia Tech, Paul Johnson). It had some pretty big flaws in it. 3 main flaws come to mind. The QB screen (I couldnt even get this to work in practice mode against no defense), Anything Play Action (but then again that was the flaw of 2011 in general), and the most concerning for me.....the Option pass. It worked great in 2010, but in 2011 it was quite broken. The QB would at times keep dropping back and never pass the ball, that and the playside DE would ruin the play almost all the time.

2. How are the sidelines? I know they have made strides in this area over the past couple seasons, but I hope to get to the point where the sidelines are just packed with bodies, like any FBS football team.

3. This was sort of addressed previously about special teams (with the comment that there really wasn't any change), but do you think there will be any chance of blocked kicks this year? I can not remember the last time I had a blocked kick.....I think I recall a year where there was a glitch for PAT's but still.....when you play dynasty and it is year 2019 and you have not seen one blocked kick.....ever....i mean, if its in the game, its in the game.

4. Did you notice any "Fun" plays or "Bastard" formations. I.e. South Carolina has always had that one set of formation/plays, where their were three Olinemen in the box and the rest where out on the hashes.....or ofcourse all the boise plays they added that one year.

5. I think this counts under play now, because this is an issue when viewing rosters, but is the lag time between rosters and menu's fixed? I know that got quite annoying, esp. menus while playing dynasty mode.

1) I didn't run any Flexbone, sorry can't help there. I think though that one of the biggest problems with the option passes is that the offensive line doesn't move like it's an option run. Instead, they seem to try to build a pocket which obviously doesn't help once you get outside the pocket (this was all regarding NCAA11, no clue if they changed it for NCAA12).

2) I think the sidelines are mostly the same. Ian Cummings mentioned a year or two back that the problem with the sidelines is that whenever they moved to this generation of consoles, the powers that be at that time decided to put a huge focus on making the stadiums & players on the field highly detailed. The problem is that doesn't leave a lot of overhead for the rest of the models to be rendered. So with that said, in order for us to get more detailed sidelines, I imagine they would have to tone down the detail on the players & stadiums... something I doubt ever happens (you don't want fans complaining that models took a step back). I think until we move onto the NEXT generation, we'll have essentially the same sidelines.

3) During our last community event, I did notice that it looked like players are on the edge were actually able to get into the backfield and at least give the impression they had a chance to block a kick. That said, I never saw one blocked and even at that, I don't know if something was "broken" is the reason I was seeing that or what. They are very aware though that we want to see a focus on special teams in the future.

4) I didn't look for them but in case you didn't see it, they did highlight an Auburn play as part of the 25 plays that had an OT split wide. Here's the formation art: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5095/...ee4f5c8f_o.jpg

5) I never really looked at the rosters in-game.

[gschwendt]

JeffHCross has written up his first impressions of NCAA Football 12 after attending community events:
http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/for...st-Impressions

[Paakaa10]

3) During our last community event, I did notice that it looked like players are on the edge were actually able to get into the backfield and at least give the impression they had a chance to block a kick. That said, I never saw one blocked and even at that, I don't know if something was "broken" is the reason I was seeing that or what. They are very aware though that we want to see a focus on special teams in the future.

Let me chime in on the blocked kick question; in my time with NCAA 12 so far, I had one punt block--where I ended up blocking the CPU's kick--for a safety when the ball went back out of the endzone. Didn't see any field goals blocked though.

[C00KH4X]

I don't know if it had been asked or not, but is slide protect still in the game?