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Thread: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 (Offense)

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  1. #161
    Heisman morsdraconis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayrah View Post
    Mmmmhmmm. That's Wisconsin's staple running play. They averaged 5.5 yds a carry and had 48 touchdowns on the ground last season. Yup, that's supposed to get 3+ yds a play. In fact a mere total of 17 schools last season average less than 3.5 yds a carry. Against a Wisconsin type rushing attack, you have to load the box all the time. That's how you give yourself a chance to stop it.

    It's not impossible to stop a run play this season, nor is it impossible to stop a great rushing offense for an entire game. Just like in Real Life, you need the players to do it against your particular opponent, and the play call has to be somewhat aggressive.
    I don't understand why people here have such an issue with offenses working. College football is a generally high scoring game. Could the defense be better? Especially in play variety (already being upgraded significantly), coverage and coverage animations that only end in ints or catches instead of a clean breakup, yes. In fact those last 2 things being improved would eliminate so many completions, which would bring more drives to an end and across the board create lower scoring games. But offenses work, they're designed too. It seems we are getting more tools to stop it more often, so the complaints at this point are unwarranted, especially considering that for 10 we were all disgruntled about how terrible the run game was, remember that?
    It's the normal rubberband fixing that EA has become know for that Jay. First, it's too hard, then it's too easy. For god's sake, if you gave me any team that was fairly decent at running the ball, had an offensive line that actually blocked for a bit, and sliders that weren't Heisman cheating shit, I could run the ball for 500+ yards a game without having to throw the ball once. Believe me, THAT'S not realistic AT ALL. And then, what's the incentive for running the ball in this game when I can throw the ball for 500 yards using a hurry-up offense the whole way and basically be unstoppable as long as my offensive line and WRs are halfway decent? Offense is so far beyond easy in '11, it's disgusting. When you have to hope and pray you can actually stop a dude on defense (and holding a good team to a FG is like winning the fuckin' Super Bowl), there's something wrong with the equation don't ya think?

    And this is coming from someone that always was the defense wins championships kind of team builder. Offense will score when I need to, but my defense is going to shut you the fuck down. Good luck trying to do anything like that against someone even halfway decent at the game in '11.

  2. #162
    All-American Jayrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morsdraconis View Post
    It's the normal rubberband fixing that EA has become know for that Jay. First, it's too hard, then it's too easy. For god's sake, if you gave me any team that was fairly decent at running the ball, had an offensive line that actually blocked for a bit, and sliders that weren't Heisman cheating shit, I could run the ball for 500+ yards a game without having to throw the ball once. Believe me, THAT'S not realistic AT ALL. And then, what's the incentive for running the ball in this game when I can throw the ball for 500 yards using a hurry-up offense the whole way and basically be unstoppable as long as my offensive line and WRs are halfway decent? Offense is so far beyond easy in '11, it's disgusting. When you have to hope and pray you can actually stop a dude on defense (and holding a good team to a FG is like winning the fuckin' Super Bowl), there's something wrong with the equation don't ya think?

    And this is coming from someone that always was the defense wins championships kind of team builder. Offense will score when I need to, but my defense is going to shut you the fuck down. Good luck trying to do anything like that against someone even halfway decent at the game in '11.
    There's a reason sliders exist. I have had, and seen some GREAT defensive battles in the TF league that I'm in. Like I said, is there more that can be done? Absolutely bro. Absolutely. And I hope it is. I hear ya, I just don't agree 100% that it's so far the other way from before that it's as terrible as you are referring it to be. I actually think the defense last in 11 is a whole lot better than in years past, I can (and do) play very good defensive games against other offensive oriented users. Everybody likes their game to play a little different. That's why sliders exist. Those also work better than in years past imo.

  3. #163
    Administrator JBHuskers's Avatar
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    Shotgun Trio HB Wk PA Husker Y Post – Nebraska’s offense is known for generating big plays in the running game. To compliment their explosive rushing attack the Huskers will often use play action passes. Shotgun Trio HB Wk PA Husker Y Post is a play Nebraska uses with great success for getting the ball deep down the field to their tight end for a touchdown.

  4. #164
    Heisman baseballplyrmvp's Avatar
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    they're early today.

  5. #165
    Varsity Kwizzy's Avatar
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    NICE! Hopefully PA passes actually get some consistent blocking this year. If they do that'll be Kyler Reed (Excuse me... TE#25) for 6 all day!

  6. #166
    Administrator JBHuskers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwizzy View Post
    NICE! Hopefully PA passes actually get some consistent blocking this year. If they do that'll be Kyler Reed (Excuse me... TE#25) for 6 all day!
    This.

  7. #167
    All-American Jayrah's Avatar
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    Nice play, i like that formation, its nice to have an explosive play out of it

  8. #168
    Resident Lawyer of TGT CLW's Avatar
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    Nice play. Of course that presumes your QB isn't hammered as soon as he fakes the hand off. I haven't called a PA pass in nearly 6 months! Even with a good run game going the CPU seems psychic and crushes my QB a split second after the fake hand off.

  9. #169
    Administrator cdj's Avatar
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    In 11, it seems like PA works best if you know who you are going to try and throw to before you even snap the ball. Out of Ace Big Twins (IIRC) there is a PA Pass I liked to call after a turnover. I try and subscribe to the old Hayden Fry school of thought - after a turnover, try and go deep to catch the defense off-guard. After one of the patches/tuning updates it felt like it was even more difficult to pull off than before. I think I ditched it a couple months back.

    Coincidentally, today's Omaha World-Herald had an article discussing TE #25 Nebraska tight end Kyler Reed and the offense wanting to highlight him more this season. It goes well with this being the play of the day.

  10. #170
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    There are quite a few PA passes that do work in NCAA 11 ... there are just an unfortunate amount that don't.
    Twitter: @3YardsandACloud

  11. #171
    I know I am a play behind but I do hope that some of the gap fundamentals on defense are improved to get after that badger play. It would be a lot of fun to be able to play games up front and adjust to that run.

  12. #172
    Heisman morsdraconis's Avatar
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    Not to reiterate too much, but what's the point if the defense doesn't bite on the PA at all? It's a great looking play, but, unless the defense actually bites on it (especially after you've shoved the ball down their throat repeatedly from that formation) what's the point?

  13. #173
    Hall of Fame steelerfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    There are quite a few PA passes that do work in NCAA 11 ... there are just an unfortunate amount that don't.
    Absolutely true.

  14. #174
    All-American Jayrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morsdraconis View Post
    Not to reiterate too much, but what's the point if the defense doesn't bite on the PA at all? It's a great looking play, but, unless the defense actually bites on it (especially after you've shoved the ball down their throat repeatedly from that formation) what's the point?
    There is no point. But again, I dont see this as the problem. The entire defense is NEVER going to jump PA Pass. Certain players are out of position because someone does bite everytime you set PA up the way you describe in 11. This is the goal of PA. Not to find someone wide open, but to catch 1 or 2 players out of position by 1 or 2 steps because they took longer to react. That DOES happen. The problem on PA is the blocking, which doesnt allow your play to develop to a point where you see the space created by the defenders out of position.

  15. #175
    Heisman morsdraconis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayrah View Post
    There is no point. But again, I dont see this as the problem. The entire defense is NEVER going to jump PA Pass. Certain players are out of position because someone does bite everytime you set PA up the way you describe in 11. This is the goal of PA. Not to find someone wide open, but to catch 1 or 2 players out of position by 1 or 2 steps because they took longer to react. That DOES happen. The problem on PA is the blocking, which doesnt allow your play to develop to a point where you see the space created by the defenders out of position.
    I'm sorry, but no it doesn't. The LBs don't bite AT ALL on PA. They're the ones that should be biting (with the occasional bite by the SS/FS if they are playing the low part of the Cover 3 assignment) but they never do. I've seen it happen once, and it was with a player that was 60 something overall. That's the only time I've ever seen it happen and I run a ball control and PA pass offense quite often.

    The only time there is space created is because they're playing shitty zone coverage. There is absolutely no space created from the PA pass otherwise. Against man coverage, there's no space created by the PA, only whatever space is created because your players are better than theirs.

    I know you really like the game man and that's fine, but to say that there isn't something fundamentally wrong with the defensive play and how they don't read the play in the backfield at all (thus causing them to react to the PA like they're supposed to) is just silly man. Defenses are taught to flow to the ball but also to keep their assignments. A normal 4-3 defense, the strongside LB and MLB would hesitate for a moment before going back to their coverage on the above PA pass play, but they don't (unless you tell them to play the run for some silly reason). They immediately drop back. It's totally opposite of what it should be. The strongside LB and MLB should be reading run first in the 4-3 (with the weakside LB playing contain as they watch for the bootleg) and flowing toward the direction of the ball.

    I mean, the whole reason for doing a PA pass is to get the defense flowing in one direction and taking advantage of that by attacking the areas where they've left open. Take the above PA pass for instance:



    The whole point of the TE attacking like he is, is to put pressure on the seam created by the LBs reading the run first, allowing the TE to get behind the LBs. This play in the game, the TE will almost never be a viable target unless the defense is playing Cover 3 with the FS playing down in the box (and then, it would be a VERY tight fit). The more likely target would be the A or LB receivers coming across because of how horrible zone coverage is and how those routes are man coverage beaters (to an extent).

    I guarantee you that if you take a play similar to this play with a run play off of it into a normal play now game, ran the other play a few times and then came out in the PA pass that's off of that run, you'll be lucky to get anything out of it to the TE down the seam. The LBs just don't react like they should. The only time a LB will actually play the run is if they are in man coverage with the RB/FB you're faking the ball to and then it's simply them just following their man, not reading the QB and the play at all.
    Last edited by morsdraconis; 04-02-2011 at 12:24 PM.

  16. #176
    Hall of Fame steelerfan's Avatar
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    Again, it hurts my brain every time I read the "this fucking shit won't work" or the "that shit will be money" posts. Why are people unable to enjoy that new plays are being added, and shown to us, without plugging them into NCAA 11? These plays aren't in 11, they're in 12. Until we play a retail copy of 12 (not a demo), how the hell do you know what will or won't work? Forget 11, this is 12. And the "look at EA's history" debate is dumb. The game jumped by leaps and bounds in 11, until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the same for 12.

  17. #177
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Well said, though you're forgetting the first rule of football gaming: Everything is money/broken until proven stoppable/working.
    Twitter: @3YardsandACloud

  18. #178
    Hall of Fame steelerfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    Well said, though you're forgetting the first rule of football gaming: Everything is money/broken until proven stoppable/working.
    Lol.

  19. #179
    All-American Jayrah's Avatar
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    @Steelerfan - Well said. This was also an argument last year and in many respects I think the complaints of how things weren't going to work because of how '10 acted and the problems that '10 had were proven misleading.

    @MorsD - I find it somewhat amusing that at the top of the page you complain about how the running AND passing is way too easy in the game, and there are a ton of $$$ plays, so much so that you could run OR throw for an easy 500 yards. And then, not even a page later you jump on the other train and go off about how the defense doesn't react well enough to throw the ball over the top of them for what would seem to be a guaranteed 6.

    I think we're all aware that zones are off in '11. We're also all aware that the PA is screwed up on many PA plays. As Steelerfan said, there's going to be a difference in the way '12 reacts to these plays. Will it be perfect? No. Will it be much, much better? Due to all the complaints about those 2 fundamental flaws in the defense, and the fact that they're so much as putting new defensive plays in the game and paying attention to that side of the ball for the 1st time in 6 or 7 years, I would say yes. But regardless, if you're gonna complain about the way the game is currently, at least have a complaint that stays on the same path. I don't like the flaws any more than you do, and I'm not defending the game based on how much I like it. I like what these plays mean to the new game and also I am still playing the old game. Sometimes I see what you're saying, but it isn't every time, as you claim it to be. I have thrown to my TE for 4 or 5 touchdowns and several other big plays over the top on PA passes due to the safeties, and or the LB that was covering jumping up on a run. I have played many, many games to get there, but it happens. And I wouldn't want it to happen much more than that if it was fixed.

  20. #180
    All-American Jayrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morsdraconis View Post
    **The LBs don't bite AT ALL on PA. They're the ones that should be biting (with the occasional bite by the SS/FS if they are playing the low part of the Cover 3 assignment)

    **Defenses are taught to flow to the ball but also to keep their assignments. A normal 4-3 defense, the strongside LB and MLB would hesitate for a moment before going back to their coverage on the above PA pass play, but they don't (unless you tell them to play the run for some silly reason). They immediately drop back. It's totally opposite of what it should be. The strongside LB and MLB should be reading run first in the 4-3 (with the weakside LB playing contain as they watch for the bootleg) and flowing toward the direction of the ball.

    **I mean, the whole reason for doing a PA pass is to get the defense flowing in one direction and taking advantage of that by attacking the areas where they've left open.
    [/LEFT]
    [/CENTER]
    All these are great points. Here's where I WILL agree with you. Flowing to the ball (pseudo labeled as pursuit for the game's sake) doesn't happen the way it should. It is most evident in special teams, where players angle and take straight paths to where they are headed, and then will re-angle once that path changes. There is little "pursuit" going on, as pursuit is more of an awareness of circularly adjusting your path to the ball carriers speed and path. A better version of "pursuit" in the game would really help special teams, in both covering and returning.

    This part of the game is magnified when you also add the lack of a "slow read" by non-blitzers in a normal play set, as you were talking about with the LB's pausing. This obviously causes and all or nothing effect, where either they come up and get sucked into the linemen or runner, or you don't get that pausing effect and they go back into their drop in a very timely fashion, considering the play action.

    With a slow read, the LB's should slowly slide or "flow" (keeping shoulders parallel to the LOS) 1 or 2 steps in the direction that their "read" takes them, and of course their ability to do this effectively and correctly on a play by play basis should be determined by awareness and pursuit ratings. After a play has been run a couple times, or a good LB gets a sense of where a play is going to go based on play call tendencies, he would then do what they do now and recklessly attack a spot in the LOS that he feels he can get to the ball carrier with, or not be fooled on a PA, in say, an obvious passing situation.

    At least I feel like that might be the biggest problem the game is facing in the area of PA, but also the rush game (especially on Power Plays currently), because without that flow, the line easily handles the defense with the extra blocker, and it's "night night sweetheart" as the old Corso would say.
    Last edited by Jayrah; 04-02-2011 at 10:26 PM.

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