Gameplay - NCAA Football 12 Wish List & Feedback

[Oneback]

I would like the game to be more balanced from the standpoint of on the field action, offensive playbooks and defensive playbooks.

For defensive playbooks I would like to be given the choice of my base defense (43, 34, 42, 33) as it does now but also the style of coverage I prefer, drop zone or pattern matching. Pattern Matching is really matchup man coverage, so if I had a defense that had high awareness and man coverage skills I would choose pattern matching, if I had a defense that had high zone coverage skills I would choose drop zone.

For offense I would like to see the passing game move to more of a modern scheme with passing concepts and tags. I would also like pass blocking schemes added and fully fleshed out running schemes. I would like these things in every playbook and formation.

Running Schemes: Inside Zone, Outside Zone, Trap, Counter, Power, Isolation, and Draw.

Pass Blocking: Drop Back (50, 60/70, 80, and 90 series), Slide Protection (600/700), Out of Pocket Protections (Spint and Naked), and Run Pass Protection (Zone Pass and Counter Pass).

Passing Concepts:: Quick, Corner (Full Field), Two-man game, Numbers, Horizontal, Three-level (Middle vertical), Drag, Corner (Bunched), Three-Level (Oblique Stretch), Vertical concepts.

Passing Tags: Frontside (Switch, Basic, Replace, Pin and Pop, Square, Cube, Burst, Fin, Dolphin), Backside (slide, Baxter, Spot, Texas, Cruise, Cross, Thunder), and Backfield (Box, Burst, Baxter, Bama, Beamer, Dodge) just to name a few.

Basically when calling a play you would first pick a formation, then run/pass, if run you would then pick a run scheme, alignmeent and direction, if pass you would pick a formation, pass concept, blocking scheme, then receiver tags.

Now playbooks would still have all the different formations that they do now, but I would like to see I-Form Normal encompass all the I-Form Normal variants like I-Form Close, etc. The alignment of the receivers would then be based upon the passing concept being run, if a run you would have the choice of changing the alignment of the recievers.

I would also like to introduce coordinators, who would have an effect on play selection, off-season improvement and recruiting.

While each playbook would have the same basic run and pass plays (balancing the playbooks) the coordinators for the CPU would determine which plays are called by weighting each play based on style. For example, Stanford would run a lot of Power in the running game, while Michigan would run more zone read. Same would work on the defensive side, certian coordinators would be pattern match and others zone drop. There would also be weights assigned to plays based on down and distance and opposing team style (Pro, Spread, etc).

To take it one step further adding position coaches would further help in off-season improvement and recruiting, they would also have weights on plays assigned to them for when they get promoted later on.

Yes, that means I would like to see other teams go after coordinators and position coaches.

I would like to see awareness mean something in human games. For example, for the CPU's QB when the quarterback drops back they would have a sphere of awareness around them, the higher the QB's awareness the bigger the sphere so they could sence the rush is getting close. When looking down field at receivers the higher the awareness the bigger the sphere of awareness the QB has of defenders around the receiver. For example the quarterback is throwing a deep in route at 12-14 yards who is being trailed by a safety from over the top, with low awareness the quarterback would have a smaller sphere of awareness around that receiver and not see the OLB on the opposite hash stacking on the blocking halfback and coming underneath the deep in route. The quarterback throws the ball and it's intercepted by the OLB. If the QB had higher awareness he would have seen the stacking OLB.

Also, with higher awareness the quaterback would be able to cycle through receivers quicker, a quarterback with low awareness would only be able to get through two, maybe three recievers before being forced to run or sacked whereas a high awareness QB would be able to scan the entire field and find an open receiver before the rush gets close. Also, due to the higher awareness he would be able to move around within the pocket to buy more time.

[JeffHCross]

I have really nothing to add to your post except that I would like to see all of that implemented as a new play call selection screen. On the defense, I'd like to see front, then coverage called separately. These would both allow those of us that are among the hardcore to call the game how we want, while not removing the accessibility of the current system.

Madden has something like four levels of playcalling, I see no reason that NCAA shouldn't have the same.

[Oneback]

I agree, I would love to be able to call defensive line games. Basically you would go into the playcall screen on defense and you'd choose front, then normal or pressure, if normal you would choose line game then coverage, if pressure you would call the blitz as the line game is in concert with the blitz being called.

On offense I would love to hear some sort of communication based on the selections you call. Something like you see the QB in the huddle and you hear him call out "Stack Ace Slot Left P 66 Z Cross, ready Break," or somthing along those lines. Stack signifies the two receivers on the left (X and Slot) align in a stack, Ace Slot Left would be formation and direction, P signifies run fake, the first digit in 66 signifies the pass block scheme, the second 6 is the pass concept being run, Z Cross is the reciever tag.

This would add a lot to the presentation. Along those lines it would also be nice to hear the defensive backfield comunicating with eachother pre-snap to make sure everyone is aligned correctly and has the correct coverage. Also the Linebackers communicating on motion or formation shifts, if the user does any hot routes on the defensive line the MLB steps up, gets that lineman's attention and barks a command.

After the snap linebackers would bark out coverage pickup's and or yell pass, run, screen, etc. Just more things that would add to the presentation of the game.

[Rudy]

I know I already chimed in, sorry. I am sitting here watching the TCU and Wisc"ahn"son game and thinking "I want this"...This game is a great representative of what is fun about college football: 2 very good teams that are about 10 times further apart in styles than you could ever possibly get in the NFL. Of all the things that would be cool, the Key things I think that would get the gameplay closer to emulating this game are (1) More locomotion and weight effect (1a) Partial wins involving this concept (RBs falling forward, surges by the OL) (2) Improved defense techniques in coverage and rush angles (3) Improved schemes on both defense (especially the 4-2-5/3-3-5 and run blitzes/slants) and offense (OL blocking schemes and more balanced playbooks)

If they did those three things, this game would go a HUGE way toward that next step to a game alot of people would play well past the football season.

More weight and momentum is big for me but to take another thought from the Rose Bowl - they talked about leverage all game long on defense. It's about funneling the plays back to the defenders. There were a lot of broken tackles - not monster ones but broken arm tackles and in NCAA 11 a broken tackle often leads to a huge gain. In real life it can happen as well but it usually leads to a few more yards until a pile of defenders get there. Gang tackling in NCAA 11 is awful. The bowling pin effect needs to be replaced ASAP. Not being able to help out on a tackle really hurts.

[ryby6969]

More weight and momentum is big for me but to take another thought from the Rose Bowl - they talked about leverage all game long on defense. It's about funneling the plays back to the defenders. There were a lot of broken tackles - not monster ones but broken arm tackles and in NCAA 11 a broken tackle often leads to a huge gain. In real life it can happen as well but it usually leads to a few more yards until a pile of defenders get there. Gang tackling in NCAA 11 is awful. The bowling pin effect needs to be replaced ASAP. Not being able to help out on a tackle really hurts.

This is huge for me. It is almost like you are penalized for having a fast team with good pursuit. You get 3 or 4 guys to the ball carrier but only 1 maybe 2 even attempt to tackle. The rest bounce off and if the ball carrier gets away from the actual tacklers, it is almost always 6 points. I also want to be able to punish a ball carrier if he is fighting for yards repeatedly. If he is being held up by my teammate(s), I should be able to come in and finish him off strong. This is how a good percentage of fumbles are created and we are really missing that.

[mundo]

I agree with what you are saying OneBack and what resonates with me most is better balance and more depth in playcalling. I don't think it can't be solved completely with the custom playbook concept. First, the plays in total (while better than they have been) are not thorough in concept that would give you ability to adjust and are too rigid by formation to be able to be truly balanced. Secondly, there needs to be more depth in your ability to adjust player groupings or packages, especially on defense. Ultimately you need to be able to have a better ability to adjust what your LBs, DL and DBs are doing than the limited LB, Dl and DB audibles they give you and individual hot routs. I also wish you could adjust OL blocking at times as well (zone vs man for example)

Along these lines the "tied" play don't make a whole lot of sense as is either. Running the ball out of the "I" with success doesn't only affect pa passes that look exactly like runs you have run.

Obviously this can get complex as hades if you let it... but you don't have to go all out on these concepts to add the fun aspects of what we are talking about.

Agree with you Rudy on the extra yards and the gang tackling as well.

[Oneback]

You are correct running the ball should have an effect on all play-action. Once a team has established its ability to run the ball the linebackers will always step up to fill the lanes on play-action, just go watch the Rose Bowl game from yesterday.

A football game is a constaint tug and pull of the offense and defense trying to move eachother to one side of the centerline. The more you throw the ball the more the defensive ends start flying upfield and linebackers drop quickly to get to their spots, so you call a screen or draw to bring them back to the centerline or play more honest. Same goes for running the ball, a safety might get tired of watching you break big gains up the middle, so he begins to cheat up. Now you go play-action and make him pay for his impatience. The outside linebackers may cheat in for the same reason. You throw the bubble screen and the bootlegs to make them pay for their impatience. Once you begin to beat them with play-action, bootlegs, and bubble screens they will return to playing more honest or closer to the centerline.

I would love to see this type of dynamic in the game. Right now I feel as though if my running game starts rolling (even against an equal team) there is nothing my oppoent can do to stop it. I can just keep running the ball and have to do nothing to change the way the defense plays to start having success running the ball again.

[Rudy]

You are correct running the ball should have an effect on all play-action. Once a team has established its ability to run the ball the linebackers will always step up to fill the lanes on play-action, just go watch the Rose Bowl game from yesterday.

Couldn't agree more with this. I don't like the way ties two plays together to set them up although I don't know all the ratings calculations under the hood. You can set teams up with certain looks but a successful ground game should make all PA plays more successful. Of course that's a moot point since play action sucks in NCAA 11. DL play recognition is WAY too high and they just aren't fooled enough. I had an All American DE (rated around 97) immediately run to cover the cpu RB on a screen play. Granted the guy is a good player but he should at least take one or two steps upfield before diagnosing it.

[cdj]

I'm not sure what percentage of the time this happens, but there's something that causes CPU runners (QB/RB) to actually run towards defenders/contact and it seems to primarily happen within a couple of yards from the LOS. I'll have to try and make a video sometime. It seems to be one of the reasons why the CPU running attack is so impotent. Anyone else see this a lot?

[Rudy]

Yeah, they don't make the right reads and it happens too often. It's why guys love to play online - to get a better opponent. I'd love it if we could play the cpu someday and not be able to tell it's the cpu. I still believe getting AI to work right in a football game is by far the hardest of any sport. It has more players and more plays and strategies than anything out there. I don't want that to be an excuse for not getting it better but it is tough.

[Kwizzy]

I'm not sure what percentage of the time this happens, but there's something that causes CPU runners (QB/RB) to actually run towards defenders/contact and it seems to primarily happen within a couple of yards from the LOS. I'll have to try and make a video sometime. It seems to be one of the reasons why the CPU running attack is so impotent. Anyone else see this a lot?

I have a video of this on my phone CDJ, I will try to pull it off when I get a chance and send it to you. The CPU HB makes a great cut in the backfield to get outside & if he would've kept pushing it to the outside he might've been gone (40 yds minimum), but instead he tried to cut it upfield and ran right into the linebacker.

[cdj]

It seems like the logic/coding may tell them (when within X yards of the LOS) to run off of blocks when they could just run to daylight. That logic typically makes sense (not on anything to the outside though and that's where I see it most) but the man being blocked usually comes right off the block and makes the tackle, turning what should be a 5+ yard run by the CPU into a 1-yard gain at best.

Agreed, Rudy. We've come a long ways, but I also think this is the toughest sport to program. Just so many variables and factors involved.

[JeffHCross]

I think the problem is that we have two conflicting pieces of logic. On NCAA 10, the CPU HB would try to get outside and avoid the defenders, often to their detriment. In NCAA 11, the HB is instructed to get upfield and gain what they can. Those two tendencies have to be in balance. Instead, I think we have a situation where one happens, or the other, but they're mutually exclusive and not working together.

And Rudy, you're completely right. Football AI is well considered one of the hardest in the discipline. One way I often talk about it is "Imagine programming every piece of instruction a coach has ever given you about how to play football". That's nearly impossible to fully encompass.

[Kwizzy]

I think the problem is that we have two conflicting pieces of logic. On NCAA 10, the CPU HB would try to get outside and avoid the defenders, often to their detriment. In NCAA 11, the HB is instructed to get upfield and gain what they can. Those two tendencies have to be in balance. Instead, I think we have a situation where one happens, or the other, but they're mutually exclusive and not working together..

Absolutely Jeff. Well said.

[mundo]

Well said Rudy

[Kwizzy]

I was playing a game the other day and messing with sliders to try to get a more realistic CPU run game and I decided that there is some (perhaps) minor tweaking that COULD go a long way in letting us boost the CPU running without making it over powered. Currently as you boost the RB Ability slider the rbs will make more decisive and smart cuts which is awesome, what is not great is how many tackles they break as the slider increases. What ends up happening is that runs that should be in the 4-8 yd range end up being HUGE chunks of yards quite frequently.

I think that if they looked into reducing the RB Ability slider's effect on broken tackles it may allow for more fine tuningin the run game.

[JeffHCross]

Any idea if we could offset that by increasing the tackling ability of the defense? That might help.

[Rudy]

I was playing a game the other day and messing with sliders to try to get a more realistic CPU run game and I decided that there is some (perhaps) minor tweaking that COULD go a long way in letting us boost the CPU running without making it over powered. Currently as you boost the RB Ability slider the rbs will make more decisive and smart cuts which is awesome, what is not great is how many tackles they break as the slider increases. What ends up happening is that runs that should be in the 4-8 yd range end up being HUGE chunks of yards quite frequently.

I think that if they looked into reducing the RB Ability slider's effect on broken tackles it may allow for more fine tuningin the run game.

You can fix the broken tackles with the tackle slider. My biggest beef is that I wish the RBA slider wouldn't affect speed. Make them cut faster, do more moves, make better decisions and break tackles but don't make them faster. I normally have to boost the cpu RBA to make the cpu game competent but once you get to 65 or 70 the cpu RBs all feature breakaway speed. I don't want an 85 speed RB from the cpu running away from my 95 speed DB. I just want him more dangerous within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage.

But I think the biggest issue here is that the physics engine fails the running game. Breaking arm tackles and having multiple defenders bring down RBs is a huge part of football. Also I still think a RB accelerates too quickly to top speed in the game. In real life when a RB will break a tackle but be slowed down and is caught sooner than later. The day EA makes it so that I can truly pile on the RB without fear of bouncing off because of an imaginary forcefield or some animation kicking in will be the day the running game really takes the next step.

[Kwizzy]

The only problem with offsetting that with the tackle slider is that it closes up those initial holes in the line because it increases the distance that the DLineman suction on to the RB IMO.

Rudy couldn't agree more. Boosting the sliders should enhance the importance of ratings IMO rather than making them almost irrelevant. I'm definitely tired of nobody state playing like they're LSU because I boosted the sliders while the same changes have a minimal effect on the tougher teams (IMO).

[JeffHCross]

Agreed. I think sliders lowers the rating players have to be at for the "advanced" animations to happen. But players who are already at that level (i.e. the guys on quality teams) won't be affected because they're already there.