But it is exactly what is different in them at this time that we are discussingOriginally Posted by I OU a Beatn
. As far as speculating on the future I will leave that to folks more qualified in fortune telling than me
But it is exactly what is different in them at this time that we are discussing
Based on MS being intelligent enough to see that physical orders (market response) were not what they wanted?
Based on what? Early order numbers? The PS4 is $100 less and the Xbox One was STILL selling out. We have absolutely no idea who would have won if Microsoft had kept their policies. I'm not going to have a hypothetical argument with you. Unfortunately, due to Microsoft's lack of a backbone, we'll never know who would have won that battle. Only someone wearing Sony or Microsoft goggles can declare "victory" before the systems have even launched. I'm not going to pretend to know how well each one would have done, but it wouldn't have been a massive difference either way. Microsoft has way too much of a stranglehold on America not to be a key player.
There will still be consoles, it'll just be based completely on digital distribution and the cloud. It wont be cloud exclusive because of the fact internet still probably wont be consistent and fast enough to stream full games, but I would be absolutely shocked if PS5 and Xbox whatever had physical drives, which means consumers better get ready for not being able to trade in games.
You also start this post correctly stating that it is impossible for us to have knowledge of counterfactuals, but you then claim to have counterfactual knowledge.
Last edited by SCClassof93; 06-21-2013 at 06:57 AM.
IGN Best of XBox E3 Awards:
- Best Game - Titanfall
- 360 Game - Arkham Origins
- Best Coop - Payday2
- Best Reason to Keep 360 - Splinter Cell
- Best Use of Smart Glass - The Division
- Most Disappointing - Black Tusk
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/...of-xbox-awards
I don't think I have ever heard of Black Tusk until now
If they wanted to improve early sales numbers, they would've dropped the price. Most people aren't like us and read this stuff about always online and used games. The thing that has Sony in the lead right now is mostly the $100 difference, just like why the 360 sold so much better early in the generation.Based on MS being intelligent enough to see that physical orders (market response) were not what they wanted?
You also start this post correctly stating that it is impossible for us to have knowledge of counterfactuals, but you then claim to have counterfactual knowledge.
It's both. I'm not going to pretend to know which one would have won, which is what I said. That's impossible to tell, and like I said, only someone wearing fan goggles for one company would predict a victory before the systems even launched. I also said that it would be close in sales regardless. I wasn't predicting a winner, just making a point that the days of one company dominating the console sales like the PS2 are pretty much over, and regardless of who "wins," the race for the most sales is going to be close enough that neither one of these companies will care.
Not a game, one of Microsoft's first party studios that's supposedly working on a AAA game. They only showed a teaser, though, so I guess that's why they were disappointed.I don't think I have ever heard of Black Tusk until now
Based on MS being intelligent enough to see that physical orders (market response) were not what they wanted?
You also start this post correctly stating that it is impossible for us to have knowledge of counterfactuals, but you then claim to have counterfactual knowledge.
I disagree. I think anyone without "fan goggles" knows that MS saw the writing on the wall and KNEW it was defeated with its current XB1 versus the current PS4 and so they decided to drop the thing/difference that would help them the most DRM to try to close the gap.
I think it has LONG been noted that I predicted Sony would go the route they went and would CRUSH MS b/c of it. I think a 180 in a week constitutes a "crush" again unless you are wearing those "fan goggles"
You don't have to pretend who would have won MS' change is an admission that they could not win the next gen console war with DRM. They have said it wasn't the price affecting the sales it was customer demand for no DRM.
So either you concede MS is right (something you usually do) or they are now magically liars b/c it goes against the arguments you have been making forever now and were proven wrong as time has passed?
Okay, so with Microsoft removing the restrictions, they should start to close the gaps on orders with your theory, right? It was several days ago that they changed their policies, and yet no change. They're still getting outsold by 50%, if not more. So why is that, if it's like you say and totally dependent upon the restrictions?
Face it, most customers do not care about having to be online every 24 hours or used games. Why? Because they don't even know about it. You, me, and the other people who really get into this stuff do, but at retail for the people who don't, the absolutely only thing on the planet that is affecting their decision is the $100 price difference. Plain and simple.
I sorta get what you're saying, but the majority of people preordering right now are those people who cared about that stuff and followed it closely. The general consumer will not think about a preorder until it smacks them in the face later in the fall.
I actually think the main reason why their being outsold is because they seem to have a lesser supply at the moment. I remember reading an article where pretty much Gamestop sold all their XB1 preorders. As much as I think you're right about that $100 difference I also think that MS has some type of research that shows that their most loyal fans would still be projected to purchase the XB1. That's the price of familiarity. For $100 less are some people willing to abandon the years of effort and buddies they made, only to do it again on a brand new system? Speaking for myself, if the PS4 was the same price as the XB1 is now, I still may have preordered it.
Reading that article the XBOX employee posted made my head hurt. That is what's wrong with these big corporations, they make sugarless kool-aid that taste like shit and think they can force everyone to like it.It's funny how he tries to spin everything his way especially finishing by calling PS4 XBOX 360-2, when their family share plan was basically PS+ 1 hour free trial but with less time and more restrictions LMAO.
And to point to the CLW vs IOU argument, PS4 was definitely winning based on their policies. The week after E3 we had a few customers come into the store to get more information on both consoles before they even thought about preordering. One guy (about 35-40) stood out to me because before I even started explaining the consoles to him he said he had a group of friends he always played 360 with but now most of them are switching to the PS4 next gen so he wanted to get some information. I objectively stated the facts to him, didn't point out any differences between the consoles. He wanted to know about the XBOX ONE first so I laid everything out to him and the more details I told him the more I could see in his face he was getting disappointed. Then eventually he said "so we're basically getting screwed all around by Microsoft huh" and I busted out laughing, and this was after I explained the family plan thing to him. Then I explained the PS4 to him and he thanked me for the info and said he was gonna do some more research but will most likely get a PS4.
He hated the 24 hour online check-in thing, because his first question was immediately "what if my internet goes down?" Microsoft has already lost more than it can recoup. The only people that know they changed their policies now are people who browse forums on the internet. There is a reason they say the first impression means everything.
I OU the pc gaming community is completely different than the console gaming community. Many people don't care about having to be connected 24/7 on pc games, because their pc's are already connected 24/7 same as cell phones. You are trying to use the argument that got that guy fired from Microsoft on twitter. Alot of console gamers just want to insert the disc and start playing their games.
Last edited by Escobar; 06-21-2013 at 12:51 PM.
Every client, colleague, and friend I know that has kids and could well afford both systems at launch is passing on the Xbox this go around. When I ask why I get the same reason I am passing at launch.....policies. As I stated earlier, I may get an xbox down the road but I am taking a wait and see approach for now. Without the DRM proposed will publishers be let out of "exclusive agreements? These are things I want to see play out.
I didn't know you worked at a game store in Houston Escobar. At your store what's the ratio (approximately) of pre-orders for PS4 v. XB1. Has there been a noticeable "shift" since the "180" announcement?
I don't have to argue anything. What I'm saying is 100% indisputable fact. Before the policy changes the PS4 was outselling the One by 50% After the policy changes, the PS4 is still being outsold by 50%. Obviously, if the 24 hour check was such a huge factor for people, that number would have changed. What's the constant then? The $100 price difference.
As King said, it's also a known fact that Microsoft has been limiting orders because they started much later than Sony and will not be able to match the supply numbers that Sony is going to be able to do, hence why most GS stores are taking twice or 3 times as many orders for the PS over the Xbox.
To say Sony is winning right now because of the DRM is just asinine, IMO. It's the exact same example as the people who bitch about NCAA year in and year out. Madden, too. If you'd go by what the internet is saying, EA might as well just pack up their shit and call it a day. Meanwhile, both games are selling millions of copies.
Sony is winning because of the price difference and supply numbers, not because of some people on the internet angry about having to connect every 24 hours.
Well, stating an indisputable fact and your opinion all together. No need for further debateI don't have to argue anything. What I'm saying is 100% indisputable fact. Before the policy changes the PS4 was outselling the One by 50% After the policy changes, the PS4 is still being outsold by 50%. Obviously, if the 24 hour check was such a huge factor for people, that number would have changed. What's the constant then? The $100 price difference.
As King said, it's also a known fact that Microsoft has been limiting orders because they started much later than Sony and will not be able to match the supply numbers that Sony is going to be able to do, hence why most GS stores are taking twice or 3 times as many orders for the PS over the Xbox.
To say Sony is winning right now because of the DRM is just asinine, IMO. It's the exact same example as the people who bitch about NCAA year in and year out. Madden, too. If you'd go by what the internet is saying, EA might as well just pack up their shit and call it a day. Meanwhile, both games are selling millions of copies.
Sony is winning because of the price difference and supply numbers, not because of some people on the internet angry about having to connect every 24 hours.
I work at the Best Buy in Meyerland Plaza, but that may change by August. I finished up school officially in May and I am currently debating whether I should try and do modeling/music production full time or get my teacher's certification so I can start my coaching career. I got certified by USA Track & Field as a coach a couple years ago when I was trying to go pro and my knee injury forced me to stop competing.
From the pre-orders I have been involved with and talking to a couple of other employees the pre-order count is 10 PS4 to 0 XBOX ONE. That is speaking only from what I can confirm 100%. But everytime I go into work I get questions or hear about more people coming in to pre-order the PS4. So far I have only heard about maybe one to two people considering the XBOX1. I didn't find out about the 180 until last night when I checked this forum lol, which is why I figured most people have not heard about it. I will discover more info when I go back in on Sunday.
Congrats on finishing school
The reason people keep buying Madden and NCAA is because they are the only game available. You either buy them or don't play football. Present people with two options and they will most likely choose what they feel is the better product. This is why 2K has become successful and Live died. There was no exclusivity deal, people felt 2K was the better product and it won.To say Sony is winning right now because of the DRM is just asinine, IMO. It's the exact same example as the people who bitch about NCAA year in and year out. Madden, too. If you'd go by what the internet is saying, EA might as well just pack up their shit and call it a day. Meanwhile, both games are selling millions of copies.
Thanks man. It felt like more work than it should have been, because I kind of got screwed over when I transferred from OU after taking some time off.Congrats on finishing school
I know where that Best Buy is but its not "my" Best Buy. For some reason I usually end up at the one out by the Galleria. That's interesting that there has been that big of a discrepancy in what you have seen. Can you confirm/deny the "supply issue" many here speculate that Sony is WAY ahead of MS in manufacturing. I've read/heard several reports from retailers that they have 2 or 3 times as many PS4s to sell as XB1s.
Point is, people constantly complain about it year in and year out, and it still does just fine. People complaining on the internet are a small fraction of the total customer base (if I had to guess, I'd say easily less than 10%).
People are complaining about the Xbox One, it has supply issues, cost $100 more, and is still only getting outsold by 50%. That right there just goes to show you how little the total potential customer base cares about the 24 hour online check. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's not people out there that were avoiding the console for that reason as I'm sure there are. However, in the overall picture, I just don't see that big of a percentage being off put by it. I'd say the $100 price difference is the really big one, which is why I'm a firm believer Microsoft needs to cut the price.
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