Penn State Football

[Kwizzy]

CLW has a solid point here. Only in sports do people act like things should be fair. Just as an example: One of Nebraska's players was bitching about not being compensated for the millions of dollars in revenue that he brings in for his "company" & doesn't get a chunk of & It's like, welcome to the real world kid. I turn out millions of dollars a year in designs for my company & still live paycheck to paycheck. Your scholarship is your chunk.

Snoop I get what you're saying though but really would you expect any different? When things are all rosey & good the engineering department doesn't get a fraction of the press that the football team does. Why should it be any different when shit hits the fan? Everyone who is logical about this wants everyone responsible to get what's coming to them however that's not what makes the "news". It's the sensationalized bs that brings in viewers and reader that drives what you're going to hear about in any situation nowadays anyway. It's a sad state of affairs but it is what it is. Have you watched the new series on HBO "The Newsroom"? It's a great show that pretty much spotlights exactly that point.

[psuexv]

CLW has a solid point here. Only in sports do people act like things should be fair. Just as an example: One of Nebraska's players was bitching about not being compensated for the millions of dollars in revenue that he brings in for his "company" & doesn't get a chunk of & It's like, welcome to the real world kid. I turn out millions of dollars a year in designs for my company & still live paycheck to paycheck. Your scholarship is your chunk.

Yep, I know this is off topic but that's what irritates me about Pro athletes as well. Always complaining about the owners making too much money and if they don't get paid they hold out or they have a lockout. You think the employees at Microsoft see a fair share of Bill Gates' billions of dollars or the Subway employee who busts their ass during lunch hour to keep the line moving sees anymore of Subway's billions? Or how about the fact that these owners pony up hundreds of millions of dollars to buy these franchise, they should be well compensated.

[Kwizzy]

Yep, I know this is off topic but that's what irritates me about Pro athletes as well. Always complaining about the owners making too much money and if they don't get paid they hold out or they have a lockout. You think the employees at Microsoft see a fair share of Bill Gates' billions of dollars or the Subway employee who busts their ass during lunch hour to keep the line moving sees anymore of Subway's billions? Or how about the fact that these owners pony up hundreds of millions of dollars to buy these franchise, they should be well compensated.

Exactly, you're entitled to jack shit in this life. You get what you work for & earn (or in some cases what your parents earn ). They all need to shut up. If they don't like it they can start their own league & see how that goes.

[CLW]

But is Penn State an evil doer or 4-5 people? The people in the wrong are either getting their come-up-ins or will soon enough. There's no need to slaughter an entire heard of cattle because a few are really sick. Because the president of Bank of America is out to swindle you doesn't mean the local teller is out to get you. Get the people, not the institution.

Note: I just argued against a lawyer. My argument is about to get dissected and spat back at me.

The Answer (under the law) is BOTH. (one can always argue something to the contrary as a public policy argument)

An entity (corporation, charity, or in this case Penn State University) is not a living breathing thing. Instead, it can ONLY act through its employees. The law generally holds an entity responsible for its employees "bad acts" (either civilly and/or criminally) when the employee does the act in the "course and scope" of his/her employment (basically the employee acted to help the corporation as part of his/her job). The law also holds individuals responsible for these same acts. (easiest case is Sue Truck Driver and Trucking Company after 18 wheeler accident)

Here, the higher ups at Penn State University hid a child molestor to protect the University (i.e. the football program and probably the university as a whole) as part of their jobs. (note the law would likely not punish Penn State for Sandusky's conduct while he was an employee of the University since raping children didn't to my knowledge fall under his job description at Penn State) The higher ups can be held responsible civilly and criminally. However, that does not protect the entity (Penn State University). It too is a bad actor (in the eyes of the law) and is therefore subject to punishment.

In sum, the law would generally permit Penn State to be punished for the acts of those in power in the cover up. Of course, the question as to whether punish Penn State and if so to what extent is a matter of policy. The law cannot decide that. Rather it is for "the people" to decide (i.e. jury / NCAA enforcement people depending on the venue and type of punishment being discussed).

Really, Penn State could easily also be charged criminally as well for this cover up. I'd imagine there are all kinds of strings attached to Federal $ that Penn State (like all major universities) receives for things such as research.

This scandal has potentially opened up a virtually unlimited Pandora's Box of problems for the University.

[SmoothPancakes]

A quote I just read that is a major issue with how everything is being handled.

The trustees have been concerned this week that the NCAA will hand down an extreme punishment, possibly the death penalty for the football program, for the school's "loss of institutional control" in the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal.

Dealing with the statue issue, and the resignation of Garban, was needed to show the public the board was serious about "moving forward," one trustee said.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ions-president

I have a feeling it's going to be the same way with the NCAA. Instead of handing out punishments or making decisions that are just and severe, but yet fair, the BoT, the NCAA, everyone is going to be leaping to this and that simply to prove to the public, the NCAA, etc that they are dealing with this, handing out punishments, and moving forward instead of trying to sweep it under the rug. The amount of public emotion tied to this story alone is enough to make any decision the NCAA or Penn State makes regarding anything related to all of this biased in an effort to save some sort of face in the wake of everything.

[JBHuskers]

Penalties announced tomorrow. Reports are no death penalty, but there will be some unprecedented penalties handed out.

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[psusnoop]

Penalties announced tomorrow. Reports are no death penalty, but there will be some unprecedented penalties handed out.

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No comment, I'll talk to you in a few hours

[psuexv]

No comment, I'll talk to you in a few hours

or after someone does an official investigation i.e. the courts or NCAA

[gigemaggs99]

The death penalty doesn't mean the current players will be screwed. They will have the opportunity to transfer without sitting out a year. See SMU.

The Death penalty or any other penalty isn't put in place to punish the current players. That's not the point. The POINT is to make the university understand that what they did was wrong.

This is just me, an outsider. I get really tired of hearing from people inside the university defend joe paterno, or say things like, well he wasn't the ONLY person involved why aren't the other people being called out. Well, b/c for the rest of the country, we don't see those other people's statues. We don't see their names on buildings. It's very nice he donated a lot of money and shared the wealth, but it doesn't make it ok or excuse what happened.

It's hard b/c this involves kids. All the other NCAA violations involve money or houses, or benefits, not kids.

I think it's also hard for the rest of the country, not the ones inside the Penn St bubble to wrap their heads around it, or the possible self imposed sanctions that the university is doing, b/c I've yet to hear an apology. I've yet to hear the University say, there was a mistake and we made a HUGE mistake.

Look at the statue coming down, people have to threat or give plane banner ultimatums for the university to take action. Why didn't they take that action on their own? It seems they are constantly reacting, not being proactive. I think a good start would to be 100% brutally honest w/ the rest of the country on how much Joe did or didn't know. How much EVERYONE knew or didn't knew, stop covering it up and only addressing things as you are forced to by public opinion or pressure.

It almost seems like they are doing the biggest case of crisis management out there. If they leak a little at a time, let us wrap our heads around it then leak a little more, this helps to keep the nation or general public from going nuts. Look at how the university reacted when they fired Joe. They had riots, turning over a tv van, kids going nuts. Can you image what would happen if they released all the information at once? It would be crazy. I'd really like to see an interview with some of those kids that were screaming on ESPN that he should never have been fired, I'd like to hear what they have to say now. Again, it seems like they are too wrapped up on the inside of things....they aren't looking at this the same way the nation is.

Has Penn St every admitted fault or issued an apology?

Maybe that will come AFTER the NCAA drops the hammer on them...again reactive....

[steelerfan]

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[JeffHCross]

The Death penalty or any other penalty isn't put in place to punish the current players. That's not the point. The POINT is to make the university understand that what they did was wrong.

And, supposedly, deter others, just like any punishment in the legal system.

But, no matter what the point is, the effect is that current players and coaches get punished for something they weren't involved in. Whether or not that's the point, that's the effect.

I'm hoping the NCAA has been a little more creative and come up with a punishment that servers both as a deterrent and avoids punishing people that had nothing to do with it. Take the gate receipts from football and put them in child abuse charities, not the University coffers. Make them pay X amount from their endowment. Whatever. But don't kill the football team just for the sake of killing it. Let the community bond over the football team this September, and use that bonding as a positive.

The death penalty is not the answer.

[souljahbill]

I think this case is unique enough that showing that "we won't tolerate this" is kinda unnecessary. I'm not saying that Penn St. shouldn't pay some kind of price but handing out severe punishments sounds like a P.R. maneuver that doesn't really "fix" anything. Plus, do we really need to show that "we won't stand for this?"

[ryby6969]

I think this case is unique enough that showing that "we won't tolerate this" is kinda unnecessary. I'm not saying that Penn St. shouldn't pay some kind of price but handing out severe punishments sounds like a P.R. maneuver that doesn't really "fix" anything. Plus, do we really need to show that "we won't stand for this?"

If there were people covering it up for 10+ years because the school's "image" would be ruined, then I would say a reminder would not be the worst possible thing.

[SmoothPancakes]

Between the statue and the NCAA punishment, I still say all of this shit is being purely driven by emotion and public outrage. Decisions are being made solely to save face and appease the public right now, not to truly answer to and work past this scandal. Just like posts in this thread, one of the main points repeatedly being brought up, "think of the kids, it's about the kids, kids, kids, kids". Yes, think of the kids, but don't use the kids as a stepping stone to rushing to a judgment and potentially overreacting.

There are idiots out there who think and are saying the Penn State football program should be killed forever, dumbasses (who slightly scare me by even saying it) saying the entire Penn State campus should be carpet bombed, and then in their minds, if you don't automatically support and agree with the statue being taken down or think that the football team should be given the death penalty, suddenly you're pro-child raping/molesting.

No decisions made or penalties handed out by the NCAA will ever be fair or just, now or in the near/immediate future, because everything is being driven by emotion and public outrage, whose own judgment on things are clouded by their own outrage. People want justice now. If the public had gotten their own way in demanding immediate justice, George Martin would have been executed or strung up by a lynch mob within 3 days of the Trayvon Martin shooting. Sometimes succumbing to the public demand for immediate justice is fucking stupid. Unfortunately, that is exactly what is happening here because "think of the kids". All it takes is one person to mention the words "think of the kids" and it turns into all out vile bashing and threats of death, destruction of property, and everything else under the sun by the public.

[ryby6969]

Isn't Penn State a State University?

[psusnoop]

I have to keep deleting shit I type but again see Eric's response to mine.

[gigemaggs99]

I have to keep deleting shit I type but again see Eric's response to mine.

Agreed, I type a bunch of stuff then see steelerfan's image response.

I understand this "the public wants an answer now" stuff, I'm just having a hard time with how slow things come out. We are in the age of twitter and facebook and all types of NOW media. I'm amazed that we still don't know all the stuff. All we keep hearing is, well we want the entire story to come out. Is it b/c of massive pending legal issues they can't/won't tell us the entire truth?

The really said things is, the longer it takes for them to get everything out into the open, the longer this is going to go on. This story broke last fall, football season is about ready to start and we haven't heard the whole truth...this is going to take some time.

Sounds like some have had enough already though....http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/2...e-recruit.html


I am interested to see how this plays out though. It seems like when it first came out the NCAA seemed to have the stand of this is a criminal matter for the courts and law enforcement to deal with...now they are coming back into the fray....I'd like to know what magic evidence changed their minds.

[psusnoop]

It took the NCAA what 4 years to figure out if Bush took money and then you have UNC and Miami who are still an issue. Or many many other examples where due process is given and an investigation launched yet since this is criminal the NCAA can hand out sanctions before those charged are found guilty or not guilty?

Does that make sense to anyone?

[psusnoop]

Also Webb decommitting isn't something I'm going to worry about yet. If more do then yes but not after one goes. That happens every year, just happens it also fits into what the media would like for you to read and BELIEVE.

Here is you flying purple guinea pig that sings the national anthem in Chinese. Oh why thank you very much.... In my best voice says the general public

[steelerfan]

Does that make sense to anyone?

Only to those who think, "OMG little boys were butt-raped! Do SOMETHING!"

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