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  1. #441
    Heisman psuexv's Avatar
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    I guess I also get tired of the Joe was the defacto king of the university. Was he a coaching legend, absolutely. Did he generate millions of dollars for the university and not just from football, absolutely. Did he receive preferential treatment, absolutely. But I love how people claim he ran the university. I'm not saying your stating that Kwizzy but your comment reminded me that a lot of people do say that.

    Of course Joe was probably a little bit different than most coaches but I guarantee that when Nick Saban, Bobby Bowden, Pete Carroll spoke people listened too. The main difference in Joe was I would he was more involved in the academic side in the liberal arts. He donated a ton of money to the liberal arts college and it's publicly known that he had tight relationships with the deans, even the current dean spoke at his memorial.

    But I guarantee that if he walked into the engineering department and barked orders they aren't listening.

    It's also well known that Spanier and Joe didn't really get along. Joe didn't like him messing with football and Spanier didn't like Joe not wanting him to mess with football. Everyone always talks about how Joe told them they weren't allowed to fire him in 2004. Both Joe and Spanier confirmed that it wasn't the case. Did Joe sweet talk them, absolutely. He talked them into giving a few more years and he could turn it around, and he did. That was what he did best, he was a heck of a negotiator/recruiter whatever you want to call it.

    Now that I've rambled on, it just irritates me how he has always been portrayed as he behind the scene ran the show.

  2. #442
    Hall of Fame steelerfan's Avatar
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    To add to that, Eric, for 10+ years before this, the media liked to criticize Joe. They said he was a figurehead and that he no longer even ran the football team.

    They made it sound like he was a puppet-corpse like in Weekend at Bernie's. Then this shit comes out, and he's no longer a bumbling old man, suddenly he's Tony Soprano and running everything in State College.

    They'll say whatever line of bullshit it is that sells the story they're peddling.

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  3. #443
    Heisman psuexv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerfan View Post
    To add to that, Eric, for 10+ years before this, the media liked to criticize Joe. They said he was a figurehead and that he no longer even ran the football team.

    They made it sound like he was a puppet-corpse like in Weekend at Bernie's. Then this shit comes out, and he's no longer a bumbling old man, suddenly he's Tony Soprano and running everything in State College.

    They'll say whatever line of bullshit it is that sells the story they're peddling.

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    Yep

  4. #444
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psuexv View Post
    How am I supposed to find this guy credible now.
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  5. #445
    Varsity Tarhead10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerfan View Post
    To add to that, Eric, for 10+ years before this, the media liked to criticize Joe. They said he was a figurehead and that he no longer even ran the football team.

    They made it sound like he was a puppet-corpse like in Weekend at Bernie's. Then this shit comes out, and he's no longer a bumbling old man, suddenly he's Tony Soprano and running everything in State College.

    They'll say whatever line of bullshit it is that sells the story they're peddling.

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    I agree.... Also I love as soon as this crap comes out, everybody is hating on JoePa and saying that he should quit and he should be held responsible for this... All the time ESPN is throwing him under the bus and talking crap about him... Its terrible how they sucked the life out of this man and even after his death they continue to bash him and call him out for things he had no control over.... I will say this, I DIDNT THINK HE DID ANYTHING WRONG IN THE BEGINNING AND I CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THERE TARGETING THE WRONG MAN NOW... RIP JOE

  6. #446
    Hall of Fame steelerfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarhead10 View Post
    I agree.... Also I love as soon as this crap comes out, everybody is hating on JoePa and saying that he should quit and he should be held responsible for this... All the time ESPN is throwing him under the bus and talking crap about him... Its terrible how they sucked the life out of this man and even after his death they continue to bash him and call him out for things he had no control over.... I will say this, I DIDNT THINK HE DID ANYTHING WRONG IN THE BEGINNING AND I CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THERE TARGETING THE WRONG MAN NOW... RIP JOE
    Thanks, man. That's how I feel as well.

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  7. #447
    Hall of Fame SmoothPancakes's Avatar
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    Jesus, talk about already having your mind made up.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ons-penn-state

    Mark Emmert talks PSU scandal

    NCAA president Mark Emmert has not ruled out drastically punishing Penn State football in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky scandal.

    Emmert gave a candid interview Monday on PBS' "Tavis Smiley," claiming that he still is waiting for Penn State's official response to the Freeh report and acknowledging that the NCAA has not eliminated the possibility of imposing severe sanctions against the school's storied football program.

    "I've never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university and hope never to see it again," Emmert said during the interview. "What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we'll have to decide.

    "We'll hold in abeyance all of those decisions until we've actually decided what we want to do with the actual charges should there be any. And I don't want to take anything off the table."

    Emmert gave the interview four days after Penn State released the scathing internal report by former FBI director Louis Freeh. The report concluded that late football coach Joe Paterno and other top Penn State officials concealed Sandusky's abuse of children to shield the university from bad publicity, exhibiting "callous and shocking" disregard for child victims.

    Still reeling from the content of the Freeh report, Emmert did not dismiss the notion of issuing the so-called "death penalty" against Penn State, asserting that the unprecedented nature of the Sandusky scandal could warrant extreme punishment.

    "This is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal like happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with," Emmert said. "This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem. There have been people that said this wasn't a football scandal.

    "Well it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem."

    Emmert also said that he expects to hear back from Penn State "within weeks" regarding questions the NCAA has issued about the case, including the issue of institutional control. He consistently has maintained that the NCAA will not determine whether violations occurred until receiving the school's response.

    "We're in active discussions with Penn State right now, and I need to get a response back from them soon, right away," Emmert said. "And then we're going to make that determination, and then we'll see where we go here."

    Earlier Monday, Penn State president Rodney Erickson vowed cooperation with further investigations but also said decisions about the future "will take time."

    Erickson wrote in a message to students, faculty and staff that the eight months since Sandusky was charged have been "heart-wrenching and difficult" and said his heart was heavy for the victims.

    "We can never again allow this to happen," he said, adding that the university was committed to ensuring the safety of children on campus and increasing awareness of child sex abuse and mistreatment.

    Penn State also has increased its on-campus efforts to drastically change the culture. The student group that manages the area outside Beaver Stadium named "Paternoville," where students camp out for prime football tickets, has changed the name of the tent city to "Nittanyville."

    The also-renamed Nittanyville Coordination Committee said Monday that student officers decided the name change would "return the focus to the overall team and the thousands of students who support it."

    On its website, the student organization that runs makeshift campgrounds said that "since it was unlikely another coach would stay as long as Coach Paterno had, changing the name for each new coach would be impractical."

    "Now, it's a new era of Nittany Lion football," committee president Troy Weller said in a statement released Monday. "And by changing the name to Nittanyville, we want to return the focus to the overall team and the thousands of students who support it.

    "We thank the Paterno family for their gracious assistance and support over the last several years."

    Attorneys for the man Erickson replaced, former Penn State president Graham Spanier, say the Freeh report "contained numerous inaccuracies and reached conclusions that are not supported by the data."

    "Mr. Freeh unfairly offered up Dr. Spanier and others to those insisting upon a finding of culpability at the highest level of the university," attorneys Elizabeth Ainslie and Peter Vaira said in a statement.

    A spokesman for Freeh did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    The attorneys say Spanier is looking forward to the opportunity to "set the record straight."

    Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

  8. #448
    Heisman souljahbill's Avatar
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    So these sanctions are to stop other schools from having pedophile scandals in the future?

    The NCAA outta leave this alone. The court system will take care of it and JoePa is already dead physically and professionally. I understand that the scandal is bad but overreacting and throwing the book to satisfy the lynch mob is unfair.

  9. #449
    Varsity Kwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerfan View Post
    "honest & decent people....should end up paying for the sins of others."

    WTF? You really feel that way?

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    If it helps set an example that those honest and decent people cannot continue to look the other way while these vaunted figureheads do as they please(no matter what situation we're talking about) then absolutely.

    Bottom line here is that Paterno knew enough & had enough pull to ensure that this did NOT continue to happen. Whether it was in '98, '01, whatever. At some point before 2012 he should have done more than kick it up the chain. Point blank and period. If you want to continue to idolize the man & turn your head away from what is clearly the case then that's your business. You'll have to excuse me and millions of others when we don't.

    These two things are NOT mutually exclusive:
    -JoePa was a great coach for a long time who did some wonderful things for the university and the community.
    -JoePa (and others) could have EASILY done much more to prevent young boys from being visciously raped. That is his legacy, put it on his F'in tombstone.

    *Edit- One more thing, everyone who is defending JoePa is acting like all of this is getting put on him. Bull-butter, there is enough blame to go around and believe me it will. That sick bastard Sandusky got his & the other administrators are going to have their trial next. The only thing JoePa is going to get is that his legacy is ruined. Poor Joe.
    Last edited by Kwizzy; 07-17-2012 at 12:40 PM.

  10. #450
    Resident Lawyer of TGT CLW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes View Post
    Jesus, talk about already having your mind made up.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ons-penn-state
    Yep the HAMMER is coming down the ? is how hard/long is the punishment going to be. IMHO it should be something "harsh". Penn State obviously had no institutional control whatsoever when it came to its football program. In fact, they lacked so.... much control that they couldn't even stop a known child raper from hanging around the locker room for at least a decade.

    Honestly, IF this case doesn't end up with a "death penalty" I cannot imagine a situation where another school program could get it short of a sports program running a for hire hit man program and covering it up for years.

    Moreover, IF the NCAA does nothing (what many of you are proposing) the NCAA will face an ENORMOUS PR backlash and it isn't an institution that can afford another PR backlash at this point.

    Something BIG is going to happen to Penn State football OR the NCAA is going to lose anything resembling authority/control over the inmates.

  11. #451
    Administrator JBHuskers's Avatar
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    The more I think about it, the more I think the death penalty is coming, and they will have to compensate the other institutions who will have a financial loss because of the ruling.

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  12. #452
    Hall of Fame steelerfan's Avatar
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    I guess, Kwizzy, when you said "honest and decent people" I read it as "innocent people" which is not what you meant.

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  13. #453
    Resident Lawyer of TGT CLW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBHuskers View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I think the death penalty is coming, and they will have to compensate the other institutions who will have a financial loss because of the ruling.

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    Well I haven't thought much about the latter at not really sure a Court would go that far since it was the NCAA who forced Penn State out so the schools would have a "causation" problem in tort but it would depend on the contract if they could have a breach. Penn State might try an "act of God" defense (you cannot be held liable for breach of contract for "acts of God"). However, "acts of God" generally have to be OUTSIDE your control (war, strike, weather, etc...). This would obviously have been something in Penn State's control.

    I read this somewhere else and this is really when I became convinced that Penn State deserves the death penalty in football:

    Why does Penn State deserve a football program at this point given that they obviously placed their program above child molestation and cover it up and allow it to go on for over a decade?

    Having a NCAA Licensed Football Program is not a right guaranteed to us under the Constitution. Rather it is a privilege, and as with any other privilege in life it can be taken away due to your past conduct. (Driver's License being taken away due to drunk driving, home taken away due to not paying mortgage/taxes, etc....)

    IF the NCAA lays down the death penalty there is nothing to stop Penn State from continuing a football program. Rather they will just not be allowed to participate with / be affiliated with the NCAA.

  14. #454
    Varsity Kwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerfan View Post
    I guess, Kwizzy, when you said "honest and decent people" I read it as "innocent people" which is not what you meant.

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    No, and I see what you mean. What I am saying is that society has a way of looking the other way when these people we hold on high are doing things, however insignificant, that they shouldn't be or are not doing the right thing. I think this is the exact situation where that bit society in the ass in a MAJOR way. This will, and IMO should, be made into an example that we as a people will not let people in these types of situations look the other way or dance around the situation simply to save face for the university, the football team, etc...

    This is SO much bigger than football. This is about right and wrong, the core of who we are as human beings and it stinks that a lot of people who knew nothing and coulnd't have done a single thing to stop this are going to face the penalties for what happened but IMO it needs to be done. If JoePa of all people was capable of making such a horrible mistake then we need to stop putting these people we idolize above question and suspicion. Absolute power has and always will corrupt absolutely and no matter who we are talking about it needs to be made clear that we as a society wont tolerate this kind of thing.

    End of rant.

  15. #455
    Heisman souljahbill's Avatar
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    I still argue that the death penalty or any heavy-handed sanctions is a complete overreaction (and yes, I know kids were molested and yes, that does sicken me). Everyone who was responsible for the crime and cover-up are either being punished or soon will be. Sandusky's gonna shower with "big boys" for the rest of his life. JoePa is dead and his reputation has been burned to the ground. The other head guys (I don't know their names) have all been fired, won't be able to ever work again, have their reputations go to shit, and will soon be sued into oblivion (not sure if any criminal charges can be brought up against them but add that if so). What does killing the Penn State football program really do? It's not like every program is going to start going, "Hey, if we're covering up any criminal mis-dealings, we need to heed Penn State and come clean." I mean, the 2001 incident was 11 years ago! There's all new people in place who, I bet, will NEVER let anything remotely close to something like this happening again. The people in charge of "the football culture" are gone. There's a new culture now. Penn State is going to be a down program for the foreseeable future because every coach can negative recruit against them. When 60 coaches come to your house saying what a shithouse Penn State is, when you're 18, that's gonna sound believable really quickly. Let this thing play out in the courts where the real "bad guys" will get their due justice. Don't go overboard because "something HAS to be done." It's going to get done.

  16. #456
    Varsity Kwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by souljahbill View Post
    I still argue that the death penalty or any heavy-handed sanctions is a complete overreaction (and yes, I know kids were molested and yes, that does sicken me). Everyone who was responsible for the crime and cover-up are either being punished or soon will be. Sandusky's gonna shower with "big boys" for the rest of his life. JoePa is dead and his reputation has been burned to the ground. The other head guys (I don't know their names) have all been fired, won't be able to ever work again, have their reputations go to shit, and will soon be sued into oblivion (not sure if any criminal charges can be brought up against them but add that if so). What does killing the Penn State football program really do? It's not like every program is going to start going, "Hey, if we're covering up any criminal mis-dealings, we need to heed Penn State and come clean." I mean, the 2001 incident was 11 years ago! There's all new people in place who, I bet, will NEVER let anything remotely close to something like this happening again. The people in charge of "the football culture" are gone. There's a new culture now. Penn State is going to be a down program for the foreseeable future because every coach can negative recruit against them. When 60 coaches come to your house saying what a shithouse Penn State is, when you're 18, that's gonna sound believable really quickly. Let this thing play out in the courts where the real "bad guys" will get their due justice. Don't go overboard because "something HAS to be done." It's going to get done.
    Disagree... The main reason for not doing the right thing was to protect the image of the university & the football program. What does it say if there are no official repercussions to the football program. As to the negative recruiting, it's not as big a factor as you might think:
    http://rivals.yahoo.com/bwi/football...mmitments/2013

    At it's base this is a case of the University not exercising proper control over it's football program. Jerry Sandusky was allowed to use the facilities and whatnot because of his former role as a football coach. I read it somewhere else, can't remember where, "If it was a chess coach we were talking about, we wouldn't be where we are..." or something like that. It all speaks to a program where football is FAR too elevated & needs to be taken down a step. I agree that the death penalty is not what is needed. I think the NCAA needs to get creative here & offer a punishment that makes this point without killing the program.

  17. #457
    Administrator JBHuskers's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm starting to lean on the side of just because all of the "main" people who were involved are gone doesn't mean the institution should go unpunished. I just don't know exactly what the punishment should be.

  18. #458
    Heisman souljahbill's Avatar
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    Besides the reputation beating its getting, the school will be punished when it's handing out cash like Halloween candy to all the victims.

    I still don't see what throwing the book at the current president, administration, AD, and football staff fixes anything or equates to justice.

  19. #459
    Varsity Kwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBHuskers View Post
    Yeah I'm starting to lean on the side of just because all of the "main" people who were involved are gone doesn't mean the institution should go unpunished. I just don't know exactly what the punishment should be.
    I feel that way too... I do think it's important though that the NCAA don't draw comparisons to past issues. This is a completely unique situation that is very sensitive. They've gotta come up with a punishment that shows that they are punishing the university/program for their failures in monitoring/reporting/ etc... not necessarily for the crimes committed.

    Again, I just wanted to make sure that I clarify that I am not discounting those opinions I disagree with. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'm just trying to state mine as best as I can in writing.

  20. #460
    Heisman psuexv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwizzy View Post
    "If it was a chess coach we were talking about, we wouldn't be where we are..." or something like that.
    However, if this were a chess coach. It wouldn't have the national attention either. This is national news because of the Football program, it's a double edged sword. And I can guarantee that if it were the chess coach or lacrosse coach, nobody would be talking death penalty or probably NCAA sanctions.

    Look at Syracuse and that whole ordeal and that's big time Basketball program. Does anyone even know what happened in that case? I don't. It was news for awhile and then I never even heard what the outcome was, I don't believe anyone went to trial. Has the NCAA done any more investigation? Has the school itself hired anyone like PSU did to find out the truth, even though there are holes in Freeh's findings they still did an investigation.

    Yes I'm a Penn State fan and obviously love my school. Do I think this should be completely swept under the table, absolutely not. Do I think the people involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, yes. Do I think the university could be punished legally or sued or whatever, yes and I feel it would be warranted. But I personally don't think it's the NCAA place to be involved.

    Let's take this out of football for a second. Souljahbill, you're an athletic trainer right? Hypothetically, let's say you are prosecuted for what Jerry has done and your boss knew and also the head of the school and said nothing about it for whatever reason say your basketball team was playing in the championships or something. Would anything happen to the school, to that athletic department? Put this in any type of situation, where you work. CLW, would your law firm be held accountable if you and your boss covered up something like this?

    Once again though, nobody is talking about the Second Mile either. The place where Jerry came into contact with the kids. Apparently they were notified way back when these incidents were taking place. Freeh didn't investigate them though because PSU paid him to investigate the involvement of the university officials. Shouldn't there be some governing body holding them accountable and handing out penalties? How about the fact that Jerry was under investigation for 2, yes 2 years and yet the Government Officials that were involved still allowed him to be in contact with kids within the Second Mile.

    I read an article when this first broke about how he wanted to volunteer at a small college as a football coach in the area. They obviously did a background check as it's standard and were told he was under investigation, obviously weren't told for what. So he wasn't allowed to be around grown men on a football team but was allowed to have access to KIDS at the Second Mile? How about the fact that the current governor was the Pa Attorney General when the investigation got started and headed it up but still allowed Jerry to be around kids with the Second Mile.

    I'm sorry but there is so much wrong in all of this and yet all people can talk about is punishing the football program and flying planes over the stadium with banners saying "take down the statue or we will"

    We as Penn Staters when this broke and automatically defended our school and officials, were told to think about the kids and not your precious football program. So now we are calling for legal action against these officials who "apparently" disregarded these kids and all anyone else can focus on is the football program.

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