Lawsuit against EA/NCAA over player likeness

[JeffHCross]

CLW, you may have already mentioned this in another post, but I don't recall.

Apparently the claim against the NCAA, CLC and EA is specific to "Form 08-3a", which was required to be signed to participate in athletics. The allegation, and I'm paraphrasing, is that the form gives the NCAA the athlete's likeness in perpetuitiy, as well as to third parties like EA. I'm not sold.

Here's a copy of said form from UK: http://www.ukathletics.com/doc_lib/c..._statement.pdf

Part IV appears to be the section in question. Thoughts?

[JeffHCross]

OH NOES!@ The dreaded double post

[baseballplyrmvp]

CLW, you may have already mentioned this in another post, but I don't recall.

Apparently the claim against the NCAA, CLC and EA is specific to "Form 08-3a", which was required to be signed to participate in athletics. The allegation, and I'm paraphrasing, is that the form gives the NCAA the athlete's likeness in perpetuitiy, as well as to third parties like EA. I'm not sold.

Here's a copy of said form from UK: http://www.ukathletics.com/doc_lib/c..._statement.pdf

Part IV appears to be the section in question. Thoughts?

for the lame....its part 4. i just dont see how a judge can rule against the ncaa and ea in this case. the student athletes signed a "contract" that allowed the ncaa to use their name and picture to promote ncaa championships or other ncaa events.

the athletes signed off on that. they signed away their likeness. its an open and shut case, imo. ea got the cfb license from the ncaa, in which the ncaa can claim that this is an "other ncaa event" from part 4.....i dont see how it helps the former student athletes at all. in fact, it hurts their case.

[Rudy]

for the lame....its part 4. i just dont see how a judge can rule against the ncaa and ea in this case. the student athletes signed a "contract" that allowed the ncaa to use their name and picture to promote ncaa championships or other ncaa events.

the athletes signed off on that. they signed away their likeness. its an open and shut case, imo. ea got the cfb license from the ncaa, in which the ncaa can claim that this is an "other ncaa event" from part 4.....i dont see how it helps the former student athletes at all. in fact, it hurts their case.

I think any time you take a little guy (athlete) with little knowledge of the legalities of a contract and have him sign something he is desperate to do (the scholarship, especially if he only has one offer) there is always a concern over what is fair. The NCAA is the big bad financial wolf with the lawyers that force some of these things down people's throats. I do think the courts will protect the rights of those that have a hard time protecting themselves. Anything that smells of a monopoly or a dictorship may cause the courts to do what's in the best interest of the public.

I'm not a lawyer but I've just read enough things about stuff like this where the court can rule against the official letter of the law to do what they may consider the right thing to do. I know there are similar fights in the music industry over who owns the rights to certain music. Often record companies make artists sign over everything for a long time and will make a ton of money off of them. There are a lot of examples from musicians in the past who were ripped off like crazy because of the stronghold on the industry a few people had. They try to justify the excessive profit by saying it covers the expenses of all the failed contracts that cost money but it still smells at times.

[JeffHCross]

Well, the one thing I will say for the plaintiffs, MVP, is there's nothing in that part of the contract that says they'll hold onto your likeness for the rest of time. It doesn't say they won't either, but I imagine that is going to be the sticking point of the trial. Plus, it says nothing about merchandise. "Other NCAA events" may not hold water to a judge.

[Escobar]

In reply to baseball and Rudy, as a former track & field athlete at the University of Oklahoma (#BOOMERSOONER), the NCAA and the colleges basically make you sign your rights to yourself away when you sign up to be a part of the team. Our first official team meeting before practice my freshman year we filled out paperwork for almost an hour, most of which explains drug testing procedures and various other things. One of which states that the college "owns" our likeness or whatever you want to call it, which also stipulates we cannot take any pictures in our attire or for other organizations to be posted in various media outlets w/o the University's permission. It's kind of like the government...they've been doing it that way for years and even if you disagree with it, you have to do it to even get a chance to participate in the system.

Where things get complicated is when you try and transfer schools. That's why we have so many problems with players only transferring to certain schools and needing to be granted a "release". The release doesn't only pertain to being released from your scholarship, it also contains your "likeness". Even if you aren't on scholarship, but are a walk-on who is part of the team and gets significant pt, you will need to be granted a release before you will be able to participate at your new school or even talk to coaches.

When you're 17 like I was, or 18 you don't even think about things like that. You just think I have to sign these forms as being part of the team. It was funny because they had to mail mine off after I signed them so my parents could, because I was still a minor.

[baseballplyrmvp]

i understand. but the fact still remains, the kids are signing away their likeness, and allowing the both the school and ncaa to "own" it, per se, for at least the duration that these kids are in school. since ea paid the ncaa for the cfb license, i'm guessing that it was part of the deal that ea could use anything the ncaa owned or partnered with, as long as the ncaa had a final say on the matter. this would include the players' likenesses. having individual permission from every player wouldnt matter at all, since they no longer have ownership of their likeness.

i went through the same process escobar, even though i played juco baseball. i received partial d1 offers, but wasnt able to come up with the rest of the money for tuition so i went the juco route. i'm familiar with all the paperwork required by the clearinghouse and all that stuff. the first time that i was exposed to it, i remember asking former head baseball coach ken knutson about it as i thumbed through the paperwork at a glance at one of their prospect camps....and he dumbed it down by saying (i forget the exact quote) that i basically had no say over any kind of exposure of me in a school uniform. its made very clear to the kids that they dont own their image if they're in a uniform.

ruling in favor of the student athletes nulifies that part of the paperwork, in which they knowingly signed over the rights to their likeness.

[Escobar]

baseball I'm not arguing in favor of Sam Keller, just trying to give some background infomation to people who don't know or understand how the system works. I get irritated when I see people say stuff bad mouthing athletes when problems come up, like we are in control of everything that goes on. I got into an argument at work with somebody once during the whole Terrelle Pryor situation at Ohio State, not defending him just saying I could see why some players would sell their memorabilia. I had to watch one of my best friends from Houston and teammates at OU have to figure out how he was going to pay his rent, because he was only on a partial scholarship and athletes aren't really allowed to have jobs.

Back to the topic: I don't expect Sam Keller to actually win this fight. I think he's doing it more to shed light on a situation which all goes back to the idea that college athletes should be paid. He like others didn't realize what that paper entails until he left the university. The NCAA is a horribly corrupt system...you are their property and when you sign that paper they control your likeness for life, whether or not you finish school. I learned this first hand after I decided to sit out of school for almost 2 years before transferring back to Houston. I was highly upset when I had to sit out of practice for pretty much a whole semester because that's how long it took for me to get my release from Oklahoma.

[CLW]

As expected discovery leaks now with internal e-mails indicating "concerns" with NCAA/EA policy.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...t-athlete-term

This ain't good folks for the future of the series UNLESS the NCAA decides it is going to start paying players (in addition to their payment of a free education) for this

[ram29jackson]

there will always be a work around of some sort. Or someone will make a very customizable football game at some point

[JeffHCross]

NatureBoy posted a PastaPadre story in Other Video Games which linked to this article: http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2...ate_licen.html

It has some of the same quotes as in CLW's link above.

Well, crap.

Or someone will make a very customizable football game at some point

Don't bet on it. Backbreaker was originally designed to allow full customization, including features that would have let you create NFL teams in Backbreaker. The threat of a lawsuit shut that down. Threats of lawsuits will be able to shut down practically any customization game.

[gschwendt]

EA Sports developed college games with athletes' real names

[CLW]

EA Sports developed college games with athletes' real names

Now that evidence (if you believe Plaintiff's theory as a matter of law) entitles them to PUNITIVE damages.

[gigemaggs99]

If EA didn't make money off of their games do you think people would be suing?

What I'm suggesting is, it's not really a matter of taking some likeness, it's that they are missing out on the money, seems silly. Go get a job, make your own money.

If I was big enough or good enough to play college sports I think it would be bad ass to own a game that had me in the game....isn't that the entire point of gameface?

[SmoothPancakes]

If EA didn't make money off of their games do you think people would be suing?

What I'm suggesting is, it's not really a matter of taking some likeness, it's that they are missing out on the money, seems silly. Go get a job, make your own money.

If I was big enough or good enough to play college sports I think it would be bad ass to own a game that had me in the game....isn't that the entire point of gameface?

They do think that. It's after they get out of college, find out they suck ass and don't have a future in the NFL, and because they did jack shit with their time in college, have nothing to fall back on for a career and are now poor, they feel they're entitled to the money now.

[CLW]

They do think that. It's after they get out of college, find out they suck ass and don't have a future in the NFL, and because they did jack shit with their time in college, have nothing to fall back on for a career and are now poor, they feel they're entitled to the money now.

That pretty much sums it up factually (although O'Bannon should be NBA not NFL). Sadly, if things don't work out for you we now have a branch of government (the judiciary) that redistributes wealth to make up for your stupidity.

[SmoothPancakes]

That pretty much sums it up factually (although O'Bannon should be NBA not NFL). Sadly, if things don't work out for you we now have a branch of government (the judiciary) that redistributes wealth to make up for your stupidity.

Yeah, that's the way I've viewed it from the very start. They couldn't cut it in professional sports, didn't do squat while in college, and now want a payday because they have nothing in terms of a career outside of sports.

And from the way this case is starting to look in the recent days, could we be seeing the eventual demise of NCAA Football video games? EA may decide to eventually just cut bait and drop it. And while some people would be praising that result, because it would be out of EA's hands, I hate to tell them, but I seriously doubt ANYONE would ever pick NCAA Football back up if EA drops it because of these lawsuits. Any company (2K since so many people love to name them) picking up the NCAA Football license and making a game would, I'm guessing, open themselves up to every single one of these very lawsuits, unless they go the route of making every single thing in the game generic as shit and forcing their customers to "make the game" for them in terms of conferences, teams and rosters.

[souljahbill]

If EA gets out the NCAA biz, I'm out the football video game consumer circle. I hardly watch any pro football and could care less about Madden. Guess I'd finally reach 60 years in a dynasty with the last release.

[gschwendt]

I would assume that at the very least, EA would put out at least one more game with generic rosters and see what kind of response it gets. Teams, logos, uniforms, etc. aren't the issue... it's player likeness. If they make every player completely, undeniably generic then I don't believe the threat of suit would be an issue going forward. We would just have to hope we'd still have EA Locker and perhaps even an online roster editor.

[Quest4Gold]

I really couldn't care if they had real players in it. I am in year five of all my dynasties and I don't have any players left. Plus I started a dynasty the first day before rosters were out so I just did name generator and went with it. All EA has to do is adjust the sizes a little bit and put a name generator in it. I could care less if they had a roster editor in it.