Steel Cage Online Death match between Rhombic/IOU and Gridiron on release day. Let's make it happen and have a live feed on JTV.
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Steel Cage Online Death match between Rhombic/IOU and Gridiron on release day. Let's make it happen and have a live feed on JTV.
Well, I'll just say I didn't run the same play over and over again but I still racked up 300 yards passing completing nearly every single pass and beating Oklahoma 35-10.
ill bring up my point ONCE AGAIN then... play-calling... it is YOUR JOB to put people WHERE YOU NEED THEM... it can be done...Quote:
Originally Posted by gschwendt
i see the concerns... and TO A POINT it has SOME validity... but for the most part other than boosting some zone coverage awareness in whatever way works best... i blame most of it on lazy play-calling... i watched the PSU vs Wash clips... and saw nothing wrong with underneath coverage there... obvioulsy only 2 plays though, so i cant really speculate for the entire game, but YES the deep ball needs some changes mostly on the FS's part...
but even if NO CHANGES are made, im not concerned about anyone abusing me deep if i face a user... but i would like to see some secondary changes made... the positioning of the player is the biggest key... which i assume could be worked in with awareness? i dont pretend to know how these games are coded and what adjustments might effect what we need on the final product, but i do know that positioning by the FS is off
"E"
LOL. Dude, there's a reason that teams don't run this play every down in real life. It's not that hard to defend in the real world, but on the game you're pretty well screwed because man coverage never adapts to take away the drag/post patterns and because zone coverage flat out covers the wrong areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by xGRIDIRONxGURUx
That is the most ignorant statement I've seen you make yet. I've followed football all my life, and I'm surely not stupid, so I know what play to call in certain situations. It is NOT my job to put the defenders where I need them. I can only control ONE player at a time, so if there's 6 or 7 open areas that can be taken advantage of, which area I choose to defend is going to be a moot point because someone else is going to be open.Quote:
Originally Posted by xGRIDIRONxGURUx
It's not just the deep ball. It's entirely too easy to throw short because A. the defender's zones are way too deep and B. the defender will not react to a receiver coming into their zone. They'll just let them hang out there and catch the ball before doing anything. There's also issues with defense against the flats. Once again, part of this is because the zones are setup too deep. They drop to the wrong spot on the field. Combine those issues with the lack of pass rush, the inability for defenders to defend the deep ball correctly, and you've got yourself a recipe that will allow most sensible people to score any time they want.
You can't put people where they're supposed to be, because they don't cover the right areas. I'm not sure why you fail to understand this, because it's really not complicated. That's the entire problem here!Quote:
Originally Posted by xGRIDIRONxGURUx
just read on OS that there will be a day one patch!Quote:
Originally Posted by cdj
Bear in mind though that a Day 1 patch may not address everything that we're finding for them. If they weren't already aware of it, it's unlikely the complaints found from the demo would be fixed. The patch approval process takes approximately a month after the changes are made in-house.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
My concern & what I think other people's concerns isn't just this one play. If it's just this ONE play that breaks the defensive AI, that's more acceptable.
The issues people have here are:
A) This appears to be an illustration of an underlying problem with coverage in general. I have personally noticed a LOT of big gains & touchdowns on deep balls. With no manual replay it's tough to tell, but it appears that the defensive AI doesn't handle many of these deep routes well.
B) Even if it's a matter of calling the right defenses, the CPU does not appear to adjust at all when the user is throwing deep balls constantly. If it wont do it when I call the same play over & over, it DEFINITELY wont adjust when I call different plays that attack the same area deep. As a result, in the interest of making the game more realistic, I have to completely abandon a component of my offense because I know the defense can't cover it consistently even when it should know what's coming.
It's the same way with these "nano" blitzes... Yes you're correct that is a completely legit defensive concept in real football. The problem is, there is no counter to it in the game (at least in the pass). Blocking wise there is no way for you to adjust and consistently block it the way teams would in real life.
Boo!Quote:
Originally Posted by gschwendt
Any word on what issue(s) will be addressed in the day one patch?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
There should be a blog coming that will explain demo to retail, maybe the first patch will be thrown in there as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
you can call it an ignorant statement... but in NCAA 10 the people "covering people coming into their zones" was so UNREALISTIC it was pathetic... it was like playing a ton of LB's that can see out of the back of their helmet... i dont care HOW MUCH you have followed football... LB's dont see people behind them... i LIKE the way the drops are done in 11 so far... it creates the windows that are SUPPOSED to open up, as no LB drops to hash, and moves from side to side as people run behind him... that just doesnt happen... so your whole "they dont react to someone entering their zone" doesnt hold much water with me...Quote:
Originally Posted by IOUaBeatn
but you guys can drop the "ignorant" comments... but your statements dont sound like someone who "follows" football...
"E"
So...you believe that when a LB drops into a zone, they just sit there? They don't look around them and pick up receivers that enter their zone? They'll just let them go and practically be wide open? I don't think so. Just like on hook routes. On the game, the receiver will sit down right in front of a LB, and the LB will make no effort whatsoever to get in front of the receiver or even make a play on the ball. He'll let him catch the ball before attempting a tackle. That's not right.
It's pretty obvious there's no sense in arguing with you as you're wearing the thickest EA glasses I've ever seen in my life. So, you keep playing your broken demo/game and act like it's perfect. I, on the other hand, am going to keep playing the demo and pointing out issues in hopes that EA takes notice and actually fixes them so I can enjoy the game more.
Chill out, guys.
We know this is a demo and that there are some issues. We'll find out this week the differences between demo and retail so relax and take a breath.
ummmm please tell me at what level of football ZONE COVERAGE looks at WR's... and not the QB's... obviously if the WR sits in front... the LB should jump up, and ive not had that problem... but no player EVER drops into zone and looks for WR's... they stare the QB down... yanno... like the drils you start running in youth ball where you back pedal, turn according to eyes and shoulders of coach... and then break on ball when thrown... maybe you dont know that drill
there is no sense in arguing with me... as im not arguing back... im just pointing out that you fall under my category of lazy players... who instead of mixing up man/zone coverage, you want the AI to see people behind them, beside them, and move to them in a ghostly manner using some form of telepathy to suction to WR's behind them...
but its obvious you have no playing background in football... if you think in zone coverage people should look for people instead of staring at the QB... end of discussion for me...
::EDIT::
by "mixing up man/zone coverage" i mean combo coverages... working usually best from 3-4/3-3-5... in which you dont have the conventional 2 deep man under or man free... but you have man over top with underneath zone, and some mixtures of others either from the 3-4 menu, or easily created with simple hot routes...
there is a way to put people where you want, and im not wearing EA glasses... and theres no need to chill out, as im not arguing with anyone who wants a "realistic" game, but doesnt even understand zone principles...
"E"
:D
Answer my question. If you're a LB in zone coverage, and a WR comes in and sits down RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, you mean to tell me you're just going to let him catch the ball without making any effort to make a play on the ball?
If people can throw for 500+ yards on an 8 minute demo on the highest difficulty level, don't you think that presents just a little bit of a problem?
This isn't even about reaction or intelligence in the zone area, at least not entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by xGRIDIRONxGURUx
The linebackers don't drop to the right area. Put the ball on the hashmark. Call a play with hook zones underneath. Watch where the LBs and hook zone players drop to. This happens regardless of rating, skill level, or human/computer. The game is broken and as a result, zone defenses do not work correctly unless the ball is directly in the middle of the field.
i already answered your question... read my post again...
@rhombic
why on a hash would you not call something with buzz zones... or whats really just "flat" coverage... why would you call "hook zones" on a hash... you have already weakened your defense by calling a bad play...
"E"
The thing that IOU, Rhombic, and Guru need to realize is we're on the demo now, something will be announced soon that will shed a lot of light on things.
It's truly a pity the demo doesn't have online functionality. If it did, I would gladly play you and show you exactly what I'm talking about. Granted, some people are stupid and wouldn't know how to take advantage of it(which is the only thing that may save online at this point), but for someone who knows what they're doing, there's absolutely no way you're going to stop them. THAT is the issue I'm worried about.
This is true, which is why I'm not full on "WTF EA?" just yet. However, from what I've seen from the demo, I don't know if this is something that can be patched. This was an issue with last year's game as well, and the year before that, IIRC. I'm kind of assuming that it would take a massive overhaul of the entire engine to fully fix this problem, and that's something that obviously is definitely not being done. I am holding out hope that it's not that severe, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHuskers
I'm not talking about calling a hook to defend the hash. I'm talking about when the ball is on the hashmark pre-snap. Watch what happens to the hook zones that are supposed to be guarding the middle area of the field. They don't cover the proper locations, which results in massive gaps in the coverage where there shouldn't be gaps.Quote:
Originally Posted by xGRIDIRONxGURUx
Someone with insider info doesn't seem to be worried about it while reconizing the issue is indeed in the demo. I'll hold out hope its fixed/addressed prior to retail.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHuskers
I think this is a good attitude to take at this point. We've identified some concerns, let's see if/how they've been addressed since the demo build & go from there. At least we've provided some discussion here for EA to consider if they chose to address any issues that haven't been already.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
I don't know why but I just played that game and I saw absolutely no WIDE OPEN plays like you were getting. They were blitzing the hell out of me while covering the bottom middle and giving me no time to throw over top.Quote:
Originally Posted by rhombic21
Seems to me there is a difference in CPU ability between the 360 and PS3 versions or something because Heisman on the 360 makes it where it's very difficult to consistently exploit that play.
I figured out the onside kick rhombic was talking about. Wow. That shit definitely needs patched. It bounces right off the hands team and right to my guys 90% of the time.
Saw this posted elsewhere, not sure where it's from originally but the part in bold is interesting & seems like it could be the additional feature the CD guys have been referring to...
Quote:
In playing the final build @ E3 its head and shoulders better than the demo. I also heard that they have a way now of tuning the game via an internet connection similar to the way NHL did it last year. Good thing I think. Russ and Ben were great an answered all of my questions even those pertaining to the skating look. Which by the way is much less obvious in the final build however you do see it when a player you're controlling starts to run in a particular direction. They have stated that the software doesnt know which way the actual user will move the player so there is some slight sliding but it goes away once the player moves. It was a legit excuse for giving players total control of the direction they want their players to move
here's a discription from OS of the NHL 10 feature referred to in my previous post:
Quote:
The tuner set allows up to update various gameplay parameters to tune the game. For online play their is no choice but to get the lastest version (since everyone has to play with the same settings). For offline we plan on maintaining a version history so that you can opt to stay with an earlier version if you prefer how that one played -- so on day one there will probably be a V1.00 (which is basically the demo) and V1.01. If you download the tuning set and do nothing else you will be playing V1.01 because the default is "Latest".
The idea of the whole thing is that we can fine tune the balance of gameplay in response to how the game is being played and any issues that are discovered along the way. Not all problems can be fixed this way, but since we can do this sort of update much more quickly than a title update (aka patch) it should prove to be a useful tool and a number of improvements have already been made based on feedback from the demo.
So.... that brings about 2 questions. #1 Is a "tuner set" (like in NHL 10) programmed into NCAA 11. If yes, #2 Can the "tuner set" fix the pass coverage (greatest concern) and pass rush (less concern) issues?
Well it says some issues can't be fixed using these tuner sets & some can. If this is the last feature, I'm sure we'll get a blog to describe it's abilities & limitations.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
The mere point is that what he's seeing could give people fits online against each other.
PS3 in one variable. Another is those who user-catch and those that don't, considering that I'm seeing catches and knockdowns in the video where a defender is there but he's user-catching, not to mention a couple picks and dropped picks.
As for the onsides kicks, would a human be able to switch to the hands team guy and hit the catch button to combat it? Can't tell that against the CPU. Could mess up a random OD though if people were dishonest.
if you are on the RIGHT HASH
|---------------------|------------------------------|<ball here-----------------|
and you call a 3-4 cover 2 for example... the 4 drop tp HOOK ZONES... do you know what a HOOK ZONE IS? its not the flats.... they arent responsible to spread over by the play art given... your best bet is cover 2 and hot route the FIELD OLB to a buzz zone... and user the ILB to the FIELD...
this isnt even an "EA" thing... its just plain and simple play-calling...
if this game does have a tuner... thats going to be straight up NICE though, so these sort of things can find a happy medium even between people like myself, rhombic, and IOU...
"E"
The problem is that the exact same problem existed last year, so I'm beginning to think it's an issue with the engine itself. If so, that tuner isn't going to help a thing. Nothing would fix it other than a complete engine overhaul, which would mean next year(maybe). Of course, it might not be an issue with the engine, I don't know. I do know that when something isn't fixed from the previous year, it's something complicated or laziness on the developer's part.
Ok so what is the CPU supposed to do? Your solution just involved a hot route & a user controlled move out of the assigned zone. Not trying to attack you just trying to make you see why there needs to be a major adjustment by EA to the way zones are assigned in plays & the way the players cover those areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by xGRIDIRONxGURUx
^^^this.
Especially since if you are playing the CPU or a human doing things fast, they aren't waiting on you to finish your hot routes, etc.
Since it has now been outted....there will be a blog on Live Tuning coming up soon (before release I think). It is similar to Tiger Woods...where in 10, it was introduced for the first time. It allows the team to adjust certain parts of the game on the fly.
For example....in Tiger, they could tune down how far a driver can drive the ball on the fly live, without the need of a patch.
I guess the question is...can tuning correct the def back Ai and/or the pass rush?
Not sure, there will be a blog explaining it down the road. Maybe sooner than later since people know about it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce