Steel Cage Online Death match between Rhombic/IOU and Gridiron on release day. Let's make it happen and have a live feed on JTV.
Steel Cage Online Death match between Rhombic/IOU and Gridiron on release day. Let's make it happen and have a live feed on JTV.
Well, I'll just say I didn't run the same play over and over again but I still racked up 300 yards passing completing nearly every single pass and beating Oklahoma 35-10.
ill bring up my point ONCE AGAIN then... play-calling... it is YOUR JOB to put people WHERE YOU NEED THEM... it can be done...Originally Posted by gschwendt
i see the concerns... and TO A POINT it has SOME validity... but for the most part other than boosting some zone coverage awareness in whatever way works best... i blame most of it on lazy play-calling... i watched the PSU vs Wash clips... and saw nothing wrong with underneath coverage there... obvioulsy only 2 plays though, so i cant really speculate for the entire game, but YES the deep ball needs some changes mostly on the FS's part...
but even if NO CHANGES are made, im not concerned about anyone abusing me deep if i face a user... but i would like to see some secondary changes made... the positioning of the player is the biggest key... which i assume could be worked in with awareness? i dont pretend to know how these games are coded and what adjustments might effect what we need on the final product, but i do know that positioning by the FS is off
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LOL. Dude, there's a reason that teams don't run this play every down in real life. It's not that hard to defend in the real world, but on the game you're pretty well screwed because man coverage never adapts to take away the drag/post patterns and because zone coverage flat out covers the wrong areas.
That is the most ignorant statement I've seen you make yet. I've followed football all my life, and I'm surely not stupid, so I know what play to call in certain situations. It is NOT my job to put the defenders where I need them. I can only control ONE player at a time, so if there's 6 or 7 open areas that can be taken advantage of, which area I choose to defend is going to be a moot point because someone else is going to be open.
It's not just the deep ball. It's entirely too easy to throw short because A. the defender's zones are way too deep and B. the defender will not react to a receiver coming into their zone. They'll just let them hang out there and catch the ball before doing anything. There's also issues with defense against the flats. Once again, part of this is because the zones are setup too deep. They drop to the wrong spot on the field. Combine those issues with the lack of pass rush, the inability for defenders to defend the deep ball correctly, and you've got yourself a recipe that will allow most sensible people to score any time they want.
You can't put people where they're supposed to be, because they don't cover the right areas. I'm not sure why you fail to understand this, because it's really not complicated. That's the entire problem here!
just read on OS that there will be a day one patch!
Bear in mind though that a Day 1 patch may not address everything that we're finding for them. If they weren't already aware of it, it's unlikely the complaints found from the demo would be fixed. The patch approval process takes approximately a month after the changes are made in-house.
My concern & what I think other people's concerns isn't just this one play. If it's just this ONE play that breaks the defensive AI, that's more acceptable.
The issues people have here are:
A) This appears to be an illustration of an underlying problem with coverage in general. I have personally noticed a LOT of big gains & touchdowns on deep balls. With no manual replay it's tough to tell, but it appears that the defensive AI doesn't handle many of these deep routes well.
B) Even if it's a matter of calling the right defenses, the CPU does not appear to adjust at all when the user is throwing deep balls constantly. If it wont do it when I call the same play over & over, it DEFINITELY wont adjust when I call different plays that attack the same area deep. As a result, in the interest of making the game more realistic, I have to completely abandon a component of my offense because I know the defense can't cover it consistently even when it should know what's coming.
It's the same way with these "nano" blitzes... Yes you're correct that is a completely legit defensive concept in real football. The problem is, there is no counter to it in the game (at least in the pass). Blocking wise there is no way for you to adjust and consistently block it the way teams would in real life.
Boo!
Any word on what issue(s) will be addressed in the day one patch?
There should be a blog coming that will explain demo to retail, maybe the first patch will be thrown in there as well.
you can call it an ignorant statement... but in NCAA 10 the people "covering people coming into their zones" was so UNREALISTIC it was pathetic... it was like playing a ton of LB's that can see out of the back of their helmet... i dont care HOW MUCH you have followed football... LB's dont see people behind them... i LIKE the way the drops are done in 11 so far... it creates the windows that are SUPPOSED to open up, as no LB drops to hash, and moves from side to side as people run behind him... that just doesnt happen... so your whole "they dont react to someone entering their zone" doesnt hold much water with me...
but you guys can drop the "ignorant" comments... but your statements dont sound like someone who "follows" football...
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So...you believe that when a LB drops into a zone, they just sit there? They don't look around them and pick up receivers that enter their zone? They'll just let them go and practically be wide open? I don't think so. Just like on hook routes. On the game, the receiver will sit down right in front of a LB, and the LB will make no effort whatsoever to get in front of the receiver or even make a play on the ball. He'll let him catch the ball before attempting a tackle. That's not right.
It's pretty obvious there's no sense in arguing with you as you're wearing the thickest EA glasses I've ever seen in my life. So, you keep playing your broken demo/game and act like it's perfect. I, on the other hand, am going to keep playing the demo and pointing out issues in hopes that EA takes notice and actually fixes them so I can enjoy the game more.
Chill out, guys.
We know this is a demo and that there are some issues. We'll find out this week the differences between demo and retail so relax and take a breath.
ummmm please tell me at what level of football ZONE COVERAGE looks at WR's... and not the QB's... obviously if the WR sits in front... the LB should jump up, and ive not had that problem... but no player EVER drops into zone and looks for WR's... they stare the QB down... yanno... like the drils you start running in youth ball where you back pedal, turn according to eyes and shoulders of coach... and then break on ball when thrown... maybe you dont know that drill
there is no sense in arguing with me... as im not arguing back... im just pointing out that you fall under my category of lazy players... who instead of mixing up man/zone coverage, you want the AI to see people behind them, beside them, and move to them in a ghostly manner using some form of telepathy to suction to WR's behind them...
but its obvious you have no playing background in football... if you think in zone coverage people should look for people instead of staring at the QB... end of discussion for me...
::EDIT::
by "mixing up man/zone coverage" i mean combo coverages... working usually best from 3-4/3-3-5... in which you dont have the conventional 2 deep man under or man free... but you have man over top with underneath zone, and some mixtures of others either from the 3-4 menu, or easily created with simple hot routes...
there is a way to put people where you want, and im not wearing EA glasses... and theres no need to chill out, as im not arguing with anyone who wants a "realistic" game, but doesnt even understand zone principles...
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Last edited by xGRIDIRONxGURUx; 06-17-2010 at 10:54 AM.
Answer my question. If you're a LB in zone coverage, and a WR comes in and sits down RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, you mean to tell me you're just going to let him catch the ball without making any effort to make a play on the ball?
If people can throw for 500+ yards on an 8 minute demo on the highest difficulty level, don't you think that presents just a little bit of a problem?
This isn't even about reaction or intelligence in the zone area, at least not entirely.
The linebackers don't drop to the right area. Put the ball on the hashmark. Call a play with hook zones underneath. Watch where the LBs and hook zone players drop to. This happens regardless of rating, skill level, or human/computer. The game is broken and as a result, zone defenses do not work correctly unless the ball is directly in the middle of the field.
i already answered your question... read my post again...
@rhombic
why on a hash would you not call something with buzz zones... or whats really just "flat" coverage... why would you call "hook zones" on a hash... you have already weakened your defense by calling a bad play...
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The thing that IOU, Rhombic, and Guru need to realize is we're on the demo now, something will be announced soon that will shed a lot of light on things.
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