Madden NFL 11

Wait, so the passes to the flats is an issue, again?

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Originally Posted by Rudy

Haven't downloaded the demo and probably won't for awhile. I want to spend my time on NCAA 11 rather than a game I simply won't be getting. I prefer college football and only have time for one football game. That said, I don't understand the hype around gameflow and gameplanning. It just seems like a customized Ask Madden. Quite frankly, I often use the suggested play selection that NCAA has on offense (never defense). I'll scroll through the plays as it helps keep the game fresh for me. It picks plays normally based on down and distance - what's so much better about Madden's system other than the user having to painfully pick out all the plays in the beginning?

And Madden didn't improve online franchise because so few people actually used it last year but that doesn't mean you don't fix things. And if they thought nobody used online franchise last year, wait until they see the numbers for OTP. It will be a monumental fail imo.

Also, Phil Frazier said that the percentage of cross ownership between Madden and NCAA was in the single digits percentage wise. I was shocked to read that less than 10% of the people out there own both games.

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I agree that sounds way too low. Every year I buy both.... er.... well.... this will be the first year since 04 that I haven't bought two football games. As for the demo, I played two games the first day and I haven't turned it on since. However, still playing NCAA and loving it (would love it more if the cpu could make a field goal lol)

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Originally Posted by Brandon

Wait, so the passes to the flats is an issue, again?

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Yup, still an issue.

I hate the strategy pad. Plain and simple it's a horrible idea and I find myself just not making any adjustments because of it.

The Gameplan thing is interesting but takes FOREVER to edit, especially since they don't have the formations separated by personnel (like having one section be Singleback 3 WR Trey, Singleback 2 Twin TE, Singleback Ace, ect), but instead of all of the same formation (taking Singleback for example again) in one category making you sift through 50 plays trying to find the counterpart to the running play you just choose out of the same formation.

Overall, I fell like I have WAY less control over my players compared to NCAA. I am playing on Normal speed (mainly because slow speed in that game is just retarded - the NFL is FASTER than the NCAA not slower people, jesus) so that may have something to do with it because I feel like there's no Locomotion for the CPU but all of my guys are trying to run in mud or something. It's awful.

The announcers are the worst I've ever heard. How can people hate on Corso and company on NCAA for so long and not absolutely despise this matchup? Gus is just way wrong being matched up with completely lifeless Chris. I truthfully never cared for Gus to begin with. He goes nuts WAY too much for an impartial announcer in my opinion.

The leaping LBs are still there but at least man coverage isn't so ridiculous (which makes no sense to me that man coverage is ridiculous on default All-American in NCAA but on the NFL on All-Pro, man coverage is just as bad as it's always been) but that just makes me go back to slants, ins, and outs all day long and never get stopped.

I gotta say, another year of not giving a shit about Madden for me. I'll probably play it out of complete boredom and that's it.

With the strategy pad.....I'm getting used to it, but still hate it. OL adjustments are okay but then throw me off when I go back to NCAA. I'm starting to get better with my defensive pre-snap adjustments but can't get everything I want in like I can on NCAA. There are about four things I like to do at times pre snap on the defense on NCAA, I can make get TWO of those in with the strategy pad currently.

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Originally Posted by JBHuskers

With the strategy pad.....I'm getting used to it, but still hate it. OL adjustments are okay but then throw me off when I go back to NCAA. I'm starting to get better with my defensive pre-snap adjustments but can't get everything I want in like I can on NCAA. There are about four things I like to do at times pre snap on the defense on NCAA, I can make get TWO of those in with the strategy pad currently.

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And what might those 4 things might be?

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Originally Posted by Kingpin32

And what might those 4 things might be?

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None of your business :D

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Originally Posted by JBHuskers

None of your business :D

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:smh: I thought we were better than that JB :D

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Originally Posted by Kingpin32

:smh: I thought we were better than that JB :D

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LOL it's not like I'm all that great or anything anyways....I usually crash the line, either man align or press, may drop a LB on spy, may do a LB blitz, those are the usuals.

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Originally Posted by JBHuskers

LOL it's not like I'm all that great or anything anyways....I usually crash the line, either man align or press, may drop a LB on spy, may do a LB blitz, those are the usuals.

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Its already hard enough making individual-defensive-hot route adjustments in NCAA and Madden as it was. You are saying this new thing makes it that much harder? I feel naked on defense unless i can alter a few things. and online of course is worse, it takes longer.

so,..i'm still a lemming and will buy the game. I havent even d-loaded the demo yet. Too much to see in NCAA 1

My pre-snap adjustments are pretty long. Depending on what my base play is.

If I call Cover 2 out of the 3-4 with the NT in a spy assignment and the OLB's blitzing by default. I may change one of the OLB's to a yellow zone, change the other OLB to play man on the TE, then change the NT to rush.

Or if I call a man blitz from the Nickel 3-3-5, I may change the blitzing DB to a light blue flat zone, then change a blitzing LB to a yellow zone or something.

And thats primarily just with the LB's and DB's. I usually may put a DE in contain depending on what I want to do or run a man coverage with one DB and everyone else in zone coverage.

I'm getting a little close to getting those kinds of adjustments down but I probably won't be able to fully until I play a HUM opponent in one of my leagues

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Originally Posted by morsdraconis

Yup, still an issue.

I hate the strategy pad. Plain and simple it's a horrible idea and I find myself just not making any adjustments because of it.

The Gameplan thing is interesting but takes FOREVER to edit, especially since they don't have the formations separated by personnel (like having one section be Singleback 3 WR Trey, Singleback 2 Twin TE, Singleback Ace, ect), but instead of all of the same formation (taking Singleback for example again) in one category making you sift through 50 plays trying to find the counterpart to the running play you just choose out of the same formation.

Overall, I fell like I have WAY less control over my players compared to NCAA. I am playing on Normal speed (mainly because slow speed in that game is just retarded - the NFL is FASTER than the NCAA not slower people, jesus) so that may have something to do with it because I feel like there's no Locomotion for the CPU but all of my guys are trying to run in mud or something. It's awful.

The announcers are the worst I've ever heard. How can people hate on Corso and company on NCAA for so long and not absolutely despise this matchup? Gus is just way wrong being matched up with completely lifeless Chris. I truthfully never cared for Gus to begin with. He goes nuts WAY too much for an impartial announcer in my opinion.

The leaping LBs are still there but at least man coverage isn't so ridiculous (which makes no sense to me that man coverage is ridiculous on default All-American in NCAA but on the NFL on All-Pro, man coverage is just as bad as it's always been) but that just makes me go back to slants, ins, and outs all day long and never get stopped.

I gotta say, another year of not giving a shit about Madden for me. I'll probably play it out of complete boredom and that's it.

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I agree with a lot of your post!!! I suspect Madden will see a slight to moderate decrease in sales this year. A lot of people on other sites seem genuinely upset/dissapointed with the minimal evolution of this game.

The demo was pretty bad. The announcing definitely took a step backwards. At some point, you've got to stop changing who is in the booth so that you can quit spending all of your time recording lines. I actually like Chris... I think his commentary is decently done. Gus is just all over the place... and when he speaks it seems so out of place. He throws out about 7 words then doesn't talk for the next 2 minutes. Very odd.

The game really doesn't appear to have changed. Pretty lame when your slogan is simpler, quicker, deeper or whatever. That doesn't even seem to go together. It appears NOTHING about the actual gameplay was changed. Talk about lazy. It's a little annoying, especially considering their own slogan if you see it on Sundays, you'll see it in our game... whatever. I see basically nothing in the game that reminds me of football. The graphics are pretty, some of the animations look stupid, and the actual gameplay is identical to last year.

Yeah the same went for NCAA Basketball 10 too, I'm sure in time it will turn out to be a great pair in the booth.

I still think Gus did a good job.

Gameplay wise, well they got locomotion, and on normal speed that helps out being enjoyable. I said earlier that I had recorded some video for a Madden project I'm doing and was playing Madden 10 on default speed. Jesus that was horrible. I think Locomotion definitely adds to the game, I'll play Madden more this year than I did last....but it definitely won't pale in comparison to how much I play NCAA.

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Originally Posted by cdj

Last year, it was Madden 10 with the big name features (Online Franchise, Pro-Tak, Extra Point, cutscenes, etc.) and people buried NCAA. This year, NCAA has the big features and Madden has seemingly lost the momentum they built up. I hope we (as a gaming community on the whole) don't get in a yo-yo pattern where every other year one of the football titles is built up pre-release while the other is bashed. It's going to be tough for NCAA 12 to have as many big item/name features like they did this year, while it sounds like Madden is all but stating Franchise & Superstar will be vastly improved next year.

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I see what CDJ was talking about now

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Originally Posted by skipwondah33

I see what CDJ was talking about now

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I see what he's saying as well, but I wasn't blown away by Madden last year either. Steps in the right direction? Sure, but the CORE gameplay is still screwed.

I seriously have to disagree with Locomotion helping Madden. It seems to me that Locomotion in Madden is so subjective, it almost feels like it's not even there. The control you have in NCAA seems completely lost in Madden.

My son (16 months) was rummaging through EVERYTHING and he found the "buried" PS2 pile. He pulled out NFL 2K3... brought back memories as it is actually my favourite NFL game ever! So I put him down for his nap and thought, what the heck.... let's turn it on for old time sake. Literally I have NOT played this game since early 2006. I turned it on and found my memory card and "continued with my Raiders franchise... apparently I am in year 9 with Bobby Hoying as my starting QB lol. From the start of the game to the end (versus the very weak Chargers) I was surpirsed how much I miss all the bells and whistles... eg:

ESPN prsentation
weekly wrap-up show
create a coach
global editing
in depth free agency
fluid run game
pre-game entrances... etc.

I seriously forgot how much was in this game. Now I'm not starting a 2k vs thing BUT if MADDEN 12 is seriously the year of the FRANCHISE MODE then it will need MAJOR revisions to make the experince more fun for the user. Madden 11 feels stale and in all honesty it is. Locomotion will help the series and I'm sure with time I will better appreciate gameflow. The superbowl victory videos are awesome and the pre-game off the bus stuff really adds to the experience. I also like the cut scenes BUT simply put, it is time for this series to be re-booted. As mentioned I will pass on 11 but I fully expect to see an entirely new and dynamic game for 12. NCAA stepped up to the plate and so can Madden!

2K3 was really good - except for the tackle glitch. Can't believe they programmed their stances so obviously. OL stances should be based on formation (and sometimes down and distance) - never whether it's simply a run or a pass.

Ian Cummings has posted in the latest blog that they will be patching in the old pre-snap system. Here's the blog and some background on the change to the Strategy Pad in the first place:

Spoiler: show

Hello folks,

Ian Cummings here, taking some quick time out to talk to the community after the demo has been out for a few days. First off, one great bit of info has been the positive response around GameFlow. Based on our telemetry, 95% of games played have had GameFlow as the default style of playcalling. We do realize it is the default option, which can obviously help inflate those numbers, so more telling is that of every single play called in the demo, 80% of the offensive plays and 86% of defensive plays were chosen via GameFlow vs. the conventional way. This is very positive stuff for us, as we obviously weren't quite sure how the general public would react to such a drastic change to the way the game was played.

Secondly, I wanted to talk about the primary hot-button issue in the community with the release of our demo, the Strategy Pad. As we expected, this feature has caused quite a stir lately, so we wanted to provide some context as to why we tried to unify our pre-play controls to one location.

We realize that the Madden veterans have been using the old pre-play system for years, to the point where it had become second nature. Any longtime Madden gamer could probably change the route of 2 receivers, pinch slide protection, and keep a back into block within a second. Despite the comfort with the way things were, it often caused major confusion for someone new to the Madden franchise or really any gamer who isn't familiar with the controls. I've heard a few comments on Twitter to the effect of "if it ain't broke, why fix it?" Well, when we started looking at data, it was in fact broke. Based on the playtests we ran and more importantly telemetry we gathered from the online connected consoles, we saw some pretty major areas that needed improvement:

1. A gamer on defense would often hit A (360) or X (PS3) to button through play call or pre-play, and in doing so, would get locked into the "hot route" state. Seeing that you are reading this blog, you probably are pretty experienced with Madden, and you're saying "well, that never happened to me". I'm with you...it didn't happen to me either. Well take this into account...did you know that over 2 BILLION defensive hot route context states were entered in Madden NFL 10? That's an average of more than 5 million per day. We discovered that of this number, more than 50% never called an actual hot route. So on more than 1 BILLION occasions, a gamer accidentally went into a pre-play contextual state that they didn't mean to. As a game designer, you just can't choose to ignore that..it's staggering. To be clear, it's not that we wanted to make pre-play controls easy enough for a caveman to use them, it's that we wanted to fix a system that punished gamers for just accidentally hitting the primary button on the controller.

http://ll-100.ea.com/cem/u/f/GPO/eas...geGameFlow.jpg
The top level menu that shows up in Madden NFL 10 when you first hit A (360) or X (PS3) on defense.

2. Along with the accidental defensive hot route was getting trapped in states without a consistent way of exiting. A gamer, again presumably looking to skip through play call and preplay would hit the A button, and end up in the "defensive hot route" state. Nearly 100% of everyone's first instinct would be to hit B / Circle to exit out of this intimidating new menu. Unfortunately, in this state, the B button didn't exit, it actually picked a different receiver to assign man coverage to, which dug you deeper into this context. At this point, still the only way to cancel is RB / R1, and B / Circle doesn't do anything different. Worse yet, moving the left stick in any direction would change the assignment of your player, typically with the gamer often having no idea what was happening.

3. Another common experience was getting stuck in a state on offense that didn't allow you to snap the ball. This could be any state from hot routes to slide protection. We tracked well over 2 million instances of delay of game penalties being called while a pre-play menu was up. Assuming that even half of these were because the gamer was "lost" and couldn't snap (and not actually trying to rush out an extra adjustment), we've still got a major problem there.

4. Lastly, there was no way to easily communicate that A/X would bring up your hot routes, Y/Triangle would bring up coverage audibles, etc without a big piece of intrusive UI that had to always be displayed. Furthermore, there was no structure to the button commands in the pre-play controls, which made it harder for a newcomer to memorize which hot route, shift or audible uses a face button, versus a trigger, bumper, or directional pad command.

So the decision was made to relocate our controls to the directional pad in order to unify the commands. We moved them to this one consistent location where the B button was (nearly always) a consistent way to exit, and to a location that couldn't accidentally be pressed by an inexperienced gamer. This change was not made to alienate you, the hardcore fan. As you can see above, the data was staggering and forced us to consider major changes, and we knew all year that getting fans to re-train their brain would definitely take some time. With all that being said though, we gave our hardcore fans the benefit of the doubt thinking that it would be easy for them to learn this new system with a little practice.

We do believe that this change is for the better, and that in the long run it delivers a much more positive experience to the gamers that are willing to try and adapt. Due to the overwhelming feedback however, we will be providing the old-style button commands as an option that can be enabled. We are currently targeting this change to be released around the first week of the NFL season as it will take some time to get through third party approvals. So now that it's out of the way, let's all try to sit back and have some fun with Madden NFL 11...after all, football season is almost here!

- Ian Cummings
Creative Director
www.twitter.com/ian_cummings

They should have always kept the old system as an option. Outrage from the fanbase along with polls stating people would be passing on the game due to the strategy pad caused this.

At least they're patching it back in. I don't get why EA would change it in the first place. Has anyone ever complained about the old system? :D

EA really needs to start focusing on actual issues than changing things that seemingly no one had a problem with. I didn't even try the strategy pad, but after reading about it, it's probably a good thing I didn't. Is TGT going to be getting an early copy of Madden 11 as well this year?

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Originally Posted by I OU a Beatn

At least they're patching it back in. I don't get why EA would change it in the first place. Has anyone ever complained about the old system? :D

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I think it all came down to those stats in Ian's blog on why they made those changes. However, as Mark Twain made famous: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." ;) EDIT - I don't think Ian is lying, just saying that I don't think stats tell the whole story sometimes.

I know I'd get 'stuck' once in a while when making pre-snap changes, but they did have the Cancel button showing on the screen. I wonder how many of that 50% were people who started to make adjustments but were unable to due to time - foe snapping the ball. It's cool (though slightly intrusive) that they can look at all those user stats, but sometimes metrics don't tell the whole story and individual decisions need to be made via common sense. If they felt the old system was too much for users, then make a new system the default but have the old one as an option. The decision they made may (or may not) have been helpful for newer Madden players, but it was an unnecessary change for long-time Madden players.

Not to mention that, if the entire reasoning behind the change is the statistics that Ian cited in his blog, there are many other avenues to changing the strategy pad over changing it completely. If one button press is really the fundamental problem, there are much better ways to avoid that button causing an issue.

What really got me about it is that he discussed the intrusive UI that fills the screen. He's right ... and it's getting worse. The UI on NCAA 11 is much worse than it was on NCAA 10. On 10, I left it on all the time. On 11, I turned it off as fast as I could so I could actually see my formation pre-play.

What I really don't get is that they've had effectively the same system for pre-snap changes, at least in NCAA, since around NCAA 2004. Other than a couple changes to which buttons do what, it's been effectively the same. For NCAA 2004 - 08, they never had an on screen UI. It's like they decided that the current generation of consoles was bringing in a group of gamers incapable of reading a manual ... so they got rid of the manuals and put everything on the screen. Using the UI as a reason to change the Strategy Pad is a stretch, in my opinion.

It's a real stretch. In some ways I think Ian is out of control. He put himself out there like crazy last year - posting tons of blogs, posting a ton on OS, fielding and answering tons of questions on OS, boldly proclaiming that whatever you see on Sunday will be in Madden. He was the new sheriff in town begging to be the lovable hero. When Madden 10 didn't completely live up to those standards he got completely stressed out over the criticism and went away other than maintaining a twitter profile to keep his popularity up. I think he's a little too concerned with his image at times and I also think he feels if he says something is better he expects other to just accept it.

Last year's Madden had a ton of promising news but this year's Madden is full of head scratching. Look at how much time was spent on putting in the strategy pad and now is being allocated to patch in the old controls. How much time was spent adding OTP? I still think that feature will be incredibly underutilized as a 3 on 3 game. Game planning and gameflow? I really doubt many people will invest the time to truly make it worthwhile. A glorified Ask Madden system isn't something that should be advertised on the box. Tons of people love NCAA's online and offline dynasty but Madden won't fix anything until Madden 12.

NCAA deserves some heat for not adding fumble, injury and fatigue sliders as well as only one camera. People always expect NCAA to get Madden's hand-me-downs but is the larger budget Madden team too proud to borrow from the NCAA team? Tons of people loved the player lock camera so why didn't the Madden team borrow that technology? I still remember one guy at E3 stating that the NCAA team was really approachable while the Madden team seemed annoyed to be answering questions.

I don't know if Ian is leading some of these strange decisions or the marketing/business side is forcing his hand. Either way Madden 10 had enough cool things for me to buy it for the first time in years. I certainly won't be bothering with it this year, especially after how much I like NCAA 11. I'll check the demo out sometime soon but I doubt anything is going make me buy Madden.

I downloaded the demo and played almost a half of Madden before I had to shut it off (just had some spare time before dinner). I have no conclusive thoughts on the gameplay. I will say I thought the presentation was pretty bad. No crowd audio at times which makes the gap in commentary seem really bad. You go from quiet to Gus screaming about a simple play. Gus sounds OK but I'm not sure his high energy will work in the long run. The commentary in NCAA is much better imo.

I thought the graphics looked good. The colours seemed fine on the PS3 and I think it may be smoother than NCAA 11. Some players are too skinny but it's not an overall problem - just bad art work for certain players imo.

Locomotion felt different than NCAA but in my short time it felt OK. Nothing about the gameplay stood out as bad. Seemed like a perfectly boring NFL game that lacks big plays and excitement. Just grind the ball down the field while the crowd sits on their hands.

I found myself hitting the L2 and hot routes to make instinctive line shifts and adjustments. Whoops! Have to use the strategy pad for that and I simply refused to use it. I tried a couple times and could barely read what I had to do before the QB was quick snapping the ball. Strategy pad blows. Ian should be smacked for not including the old controls as an option.

The camera is not good. It's too low on the passing game. The NCAA 11 camera is better for seeing downfield.

Gameflow blows. Maybe it works if you gameplan but I really hate the fact you don't even get a couple plays to choose from. It automatically selects one play and you have to run it. Terrible. I turned it off after 3 plays. What's even worse than gameflow is the co-ordinator audio and comments. That got shut off real quick too. I'd still like to know how much time did they spent on this feature that nobody asked for. I do like the default setup for calling plays better than NCAA 11 as I can pick from 3 plays at the same time without holding the L2 button down.

Overall gameplay - nothing stood out as bad. This may be refined and it may play a good game of boring NFL. But the new strategy pad and gameflow suck. I like the stat overlays but the commentary and sound were bad.

Rudy, the key to gameflow is taking the time to set-up your playbook. I agree that gameflow is useless UNTIL you take the tyime to set up your book. Since then, I have felt differently about the feature.

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Originally Posted by jaymo76

Rudy, the key to gameflow is taking the time to set-up your playbook. I agree that gameflow is useless UNTIL you take the tyime to set up your book. Since then, I have felt differently about the feature.

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But, as I've said before, I wouldn't have a problem setting up my playbook properly if it was actually done right where it gave me my entire playbook in a form that was easily navigable. When I have to sift through 50 shotgun plays to find what I'm looking for instead of being able to choose the exact formation I want to use, there's a problem.

I think that's the key concept here that Mors and I have eluded to. I don't have a problem with the concept of streamlining a playbook and/or picking plays based on down and distance. But that could be more easily accomplished by a custom playbook OR improved by still giving us a few plays to pick from based on our criteria. Simply sticking you with one play when you use it sucks. Having to spend a lot of time customizing it isn't simpler, quicker, deeper. "Simpler, quicker, deeper" makes no sense and is a lousy marketing slogan too.

I will agree that the new slogan is dumb, especially after trying to listen to different people from the Madden team try to describe why it is "Simpler, Quicker, and Deeper".

Also, I'd like to add that of course you can play a game in half an hour if you are playing five min. qtr's with the accell clock on. Once I turned it off, it still took me just as long to play a five min game as it always did. I just don't get what they are saying, especially considering that 7 min. qtr's w/ the 15 sec. runoff was the default online last year. Lowering it from 7 to 5 isn't making the game deeper, it only lowers your stats even more. I was under the impression I could play a game with realistic stats faster.....I don't even expect to do it in 30 minutes, but quicker would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Rudy

I think that's the key concept here that Mors and I have eluded to. I don't have a problem with the concept of streamlining a playbook and/or picking plays based on down and distance. But that could be more easily accomplished by a custom playbook OR improved by still giving us a few plays to pick from based on our criteria. Simply sticking you with one play when you use it sucks. Having to spend a lot of time customizing it isn't simpler, quicker, deeper. "Simpler, quicker, deeper" makes no sense and is a lousy marketing slogan too.

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You will never hear me argue against custom playbooks. That is my #1 priority for both games. However, perhaps this new system was brought in because for 12-13-14??? they want to bring coordinators into the game and therefore make playcalling more realistic?

But why spend time on a feature that nobody really asked for? You want custom playbooks. I want in game saves. Many people want those things and yet that time is being used to work on something else that isn't a priority imo. I felt the same way about Season Showdown last year. They added something nobody asked for and it's something I don't care about at all.

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Originally Posted by Rudy

But why spend time on a feature that nobody really asked for? You want custom playbooks. I want in game saves. Many people want those things and yet that time is being used to work on something else that isn't a priority imo. I felt the same way about Season Showdown last year. They added something nobody asked for and it's something I don't care about at all.

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Well we both know the answer.... ADD more casual gamers to people who buy the game. Hey it sucks but the reality is that EA exists to make money and the causal gamer market size is a lot bigger that the hardcore such as ourselves. I didn't turn on season showdown last year, I have played a total of two mascot games, etc. I don't do the gimmick thing at all. I would love to also have in-game saves but that's a feature I don't see in the near future because I don't think EA see's that as something they can market.

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Originally Posted by jaymo76

I have played a total of two mascot games, etc. I don't do the gimmick thing at all.

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This is another thing I in all honesty think they need to get the hell off the disc. If they want to have mascot crap (I have never played a mascot game because I couldn't care less about it) take it off the disc and make it DLC for those who want it. It'd open up more space (maybe not necessarily a lot, but more nonetheless) space on the disc to possibly put in the things that some of us hard core players would love to see.

It's been reported consistently that mascot games take absolutely no space on the disc. The mascots are already there, and all the teams are 99 OVR.

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

It's been reported consistently that mascot games take absolutely no space on the disc. The mascots are already there, and all the teams are 99 OVR.

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I've seen that too. I agree that the space is so negligible that it's almost nothing, but "absolutley no disc space"? What about all the "over-the-top" jukes and spins? No space whatsoever needed for those? I'm not arguing and I really don't care, but I'd think "absoluteley no disc space" is a stretch.

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

It's been reported consistently that mascot games take absolutely no space on the disc. The mascots are already there, and all the teams are 99 OVR.

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Ahh, well then, lol. I've never really done much searching or looking for info on what the deal is with the mascot games and stuff. I just figured it was it's only little section on the disc and took up even maybe a little bit of space. I guess you do learn something new every day after all.

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Originally Posted by steelerfan

I'm not arguing and I really don't care, but I'd think "absoluteley no disc space" is a stretch.

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Okay "practically no disc space" ;)

Online games this year are going to be incredibly high scoring if you know what you're doing. I was playing around with it last night on All Pro and I had no issue whatsoever moving up and down the field at will. Even the CPU had it's way against me, even though I was mixing in everything I possibly could. Zone defense is messed up, man defense is under powered and rarely is close enough to the receiver, flats defense is messed up, and the pass rush/blitz schemes don't seem to get there nearly quick enough to be effective. Not to mention it seems like the under center run game is severely overpowered. The RB will get hit and fall forward for an additional 2 or 3 yards every time, so unless you're hitting him in the backfield, you're going to have some issues getting off the field.

My kids liked seeing the mascot game. I put it on a couple times for them and they laughed their heads off.

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Originally Posted by Rudy

My kids liked seeing the mascot game. I put it on a couple times for them and they laughed their heads off.

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And that's something that people fail to grasp with that. It's for the kids guys. It's to help assimilate the kids into football junkies, thus increasing their marketability.