Penn State Football

If that shit is true, then what a fucking joke. I already dislike people but if the NCAA goes that far, I'll officially be a hater of human beings. That goes WELL beyond overreaction. Those sanctions are 2 Dirk Diggler dicks in 1 asshole. You can't possibly fuck anyone any harder then that. They can go down to FCS? Wow! Penn St. playing on the same level as the SWAC. That's crazy! And to say that the kids can transfer with no penalty? Gimme a break. Fall ball starts in like, 2 weeks. People have gone through spring and summer ball. Starters are almost penciled in everywhere. If I'm a starting WR, 1st I have to find a school where all my credits can transfer over, find a place where I may get a chance to play, and may have to move across the country for that opportunity AND I'd have to do all of that within 2 weeks. That's bullshit. I'm done.

Just heard Jay Bilas say something pretty smart on Mike & Mike. He said everyone claiming Lack of Institutional Control are wrong in this case. This isn't the football team doom as it pleases while the higher ups turned a blind eye. This is actually Total Institutional Control. Everyone and their grandma knew "something" was up and they all worked together to keep it under wraps. Nothing in the rulebook about punishing for Total Institutional Control.

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Originally Posted by souljahbill

Just heard Jay Bilas say something pretty smart on Mike & Mike. He said everyone claiming Lack of Institutional Control are wrong in this case. This isn't the football team doom as it pleases while the higher ups turned a blind eye. This is actually Total Institutional Control. Everyone and their grandma knew "something" was up and they all worked together to keep it under wraps. Nothing in the rulebook about punishing for Total Institutional Control.

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That depends on one's definition of "institutional control". I think its pretty clear from all of this that Penn State's football program RAN the University (and not the other way around - the University MUST run the football program). That is the very definition of a lack of control in my eyes.

Jay Bilas is very smart and brings forth a liberal wet dream to college athletics thus I disagree with ALMOST EVERYTHING he ever says about anything re: how the NCAA does/should conduct its business. I just wish there was someone as intelligent as Jay arguing from a conservative point of view to counter him so that a truly good debate could be had. Instead, Jay goes on ESPN and gives his liberal opinion on how things should be and almost 100% of the time goes completely unchallenged by the "world wide leader".

I've read the full report and seen many of the documents and honestly there isn't a punishment "too severe" in my eyes. That "leak" didn't even make me have a second thought about the situation.

I heard someone this morning indicate that the Big 10 was thinking about revoking its membership to Penn State. I think that plus the "leak" would be a decent punishment for what occurred.

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Originally Posted by CLW

That depends on one's definition of "institutional control". I think its pretty clear from all of this that Penn State's football program RAN the University (and not the other way around - the University MUST run the football program). That is the very definition of a lack of control in my eyes.

Jay Bilas is very smart and brings forth a liberal wet dream to college athletics thus I disagree with ALMOST EVERYTHING he ever says about anything re: how the NCAA does/should conduct its business. I just wish there was someone as intelligent as Jay arguing from a conservative point of view to counter him so that a truly good debate could be had. Instead, Jay goes on ESPN and gives his liberal opinion on how things should be and almost 100% of the time goes completely unchallenged by the "world wide leader".

I've read the full report and seen many of the documents and honestly there isn't a punishment "too severe" in my eyes. That "leak" didn't even make me have a second thought about the situation.

I heard someone this morning indicate that the Big 10 was thinking about revoking its membership to Penn State. I think that plus the "leak" would be a decent punishment for what occurred.

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You mean the same people that ran this investigation??

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...cts-to-penn-st

The NCAA has their costumes on.

http://www.aizuddindanian.com/voi/images/banhammer.jpg

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Originally Posted by psusnoop

You mean the same people that ran this investigation??

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...cts-to-penn-st

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If you have a rational explanation for the e-mails AND Mike McQueary's testimony I'm all ears. Either one is DAMNING. The staff knew or should have known in either the 90s or 2001 or 2002 (cannot remember when McQueary witnessed the rape and told his father and Paterno). Penn State did nothing for at a minimum 10 years and in fact did everything they could to keep the child rapes hidden.

Those actions are far worse than ANY actions I can think of my higher ups at a university in order to protect a sports program.

Again, if you have anything credible to refute the evidence known at this time I'd like to know but documentary and testimony is pretty solid in this case.

I do find the "no televised games and bowl ban" until 2015 hilarious. If football operations are suspended for a year (pretty much the fucking death penalty without actually saying the fucking death penalty, apparently because the NCAA is now too fucking pussy to call it what it is), and then no scholarships allowed at all for 2013 (so basically a two year death penalty since 85 or 100 or however many walk-ons they would have since they would have no scholarships, they'll be getting blown the fuck out 50+ every game in 2013), there will be no fucking hope whatsoever of them going to a bowl game before 2015. If all that shit is true, Penn State will probably never see a bowl game again before 2017, if not 2020 or later. That's how long it would take them to even recover.

So basically, like I've felt all along, nothing but saving face bullshit from the NCAA. "Look at how hard we came down with this giant list of shit, even though half that shit would "run concurrent" and won't matter in the overall picture."

Also, even if the Lack of Institutional Control is what the NCAA is using to bring down the hammer (what the hell could they use, nothing else falls under their rules, only the rules of criminal and civil law), I don't blame Penn State hiring an lawyer and possibly challenging the NCAA on half of that, especially since Emmert is essentially pulling a Goodell here and being judge, jury and executioner all by his lonesome. The fact that everything completely skipped over anything to do with the Infractions Committee does nothing but further justify in my mind this a pure face saving witch hunt for the NCAA, so they can see "look, we came down hard as fuck on them" and pat themselves on the back about it.

Well now we don't have to wonder. Conference has just started.

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Lol, the NCAA wasted absolutely no time tripping over themselves trying to pat themselves on the back about their response to Penn State. And of course not even 30 seconds into it all, instantly mentioning "think of the kids", doing their best to stir up that "you'd be a monster to not instantly agree with us, just think of those poor kids" emotions in everyone.

Alright, so we can officially declare that "CBS leak" false.

Bobby Bowden is happy with the vacating wins.

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And Emmert is somewhat winning me over talking about their decision not to implement the death penalty just now and their reasoning why.

As for the official penalties, not so bad as I thought. The four year bowl ban (no TV ban though), vacated wins since 1998, the $60 million fine, reduced scholarships, 5 years of probation, and anyone who wants to transfer out of Penn State will be allowed to do so.

:fp:

Not as harsh as I'd like but certainly glad its the most severe penalty probably since SMU. For me, the only way I would have taken the "death penalty" off the table would be if Penn State agreed to take the punishment handed out with no appeal and/or litigation re: the penalty.

Yeah, Emmert showed up for this one, but where has he been with his golden cape on Miami and O$U?

1 year death penalty would have been easier for PSU to recover from. It affects a couple years of recruiting. 4 year bowl ban? Wow. Plus scholarship reductions? PSU football will be hurting for years to recover to competitive depth.

Bowl ban is the only thing that I don't agree with.

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Originally Posted by JBHuskers

Bobby Bowden is happy with the vacating wins.

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So is Grambling St. University
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_Robinson.jpg

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Originally Posted by JBHuskers

Bobby Bowden is happy with the vacating wins.

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I don't think Bowden or Grambling St. is going to be happy. No one from now until the end of time is going to mention the all time wins leader without bringing up Paterno and this tragedy. It's really a shame...


It's like the home run record in baseball. That record is forever tarnished until someone 'clean' breaks it.

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Originally Posted by CLW

Not as harsh as I'd like but certainly glad its the most severe penalty probably since SMU. For me, the only way I would have taken the "death penalty" off the table would be if Penn State agreed to take the punishment handed out with no appeal and/or litigation re: the penalty.

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For most it will never be enough. :smh:

Ultimately, there was absolutely no way around it and no way to dole out punishments without doing it, but in the name of "those poor kids", even more kids end up getting fucked over by the NCAA. And this time, unlike Miami or Ohio State or USC, the players truly WERE innocent in everything and had absolutely nothing to do with any of this. But in the end, past players have their memories, histories and records at Penn State tarnished and deleted, and current and future players are left to get bent over and fucked up the ass "in the name of justice".

I have always hated some of the penalties the NCAA have given in the past, punishing and hurting the current and future innocent players for the sins of those in the past simply by method of common relation through the football program. If anything, build on this punishment in the future as far as handing out large or massive fines (losing $60 million is one hell of a fucking wake up call to a university), blackballing the coaching staff responsible so they will never coach again or not coach for 5 or 10 years, vacate wins and titles (like usual), but enough of fucking over the innocent kids in the name of justice for the sins of those in the past, who the current and future kids had absolutely nothing to do with.

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Originally Posted by Deuce

I don't think Bowden or Grambling St. is going to be happy. No one from now until the end of time is going to mention the all time wins leader without bringing up Paterno and this tragedy. It's really a shame...


It's like the home run record in baseball. That record is forever tarnished until someone 'clean' breaks it.

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Oh, GSU is happy. They were already looking into getting JoePa's wins vacated.

Article Here

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Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes

Ultimately, there was absolutely no way around it and no way to dole out punishments without doing it, but in the name of "those poor kids", even more kids end up getting fucked over by the NCAA. And this time, unlike Miami or Ohio State or USC, the players truly WERE innocent in everything and had absolutely nothing to do with any of this. But in the end, past players have their memories, histories and records at Penn State tarnished and deleted, and current and future players are left to get bent over and fucked up the ass "in the name of justice".

I have always hated some of the penalties the NCAA have given in the past, punishing and hurting the current and future innocent players for the sins of those in the past simply by method of common relation through the football program. If anything, build on this punishment in the future as far as handing out large or massive fines (losing $60 million is one hell of a fucking wake up call to a university), blackballing the coaching staff responsible so they will never coach again or not coach for 5 or 10 years, vacate wins and titles (like usual), but enough of fucking over the innocent kids in the name of justice for the sins of those in the past, who the current and future kids had absolutely nothing to do with.

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It's appalling that it was covered up for as long as it was. It's terrible that people are learning these things about a coach that so many idolized and how tarnished that image of him will be. It's atrocious that kids on that team and recruits coming to that school are going to be punished while not having anything to do with it at all. But, it was horrific what happened to children within the halls of that University and something had to be done to prevent that from happening again. I hate that innocent players on that team are paying for what happened though. Even with the ability to transfer to another school, most schools are a month away from finalizing their rosters and final preparations for the upcoming season. The likelihood of these kids being able to transfer to another school now is VERY low.

Yeah. Thats why I was definitely fine with a $60M fine, fine with reduction of scholarships, but not fine with the bowl and postseason ban.

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Originally Posted by morsdraconis

It's appalling that it was covered up for as long as it was. It's terrible that people are learning these things about a coach that so many idolized and how tarnished that image of him will be. It's atrocious that kids on that team and recruits coming to that school are going to be punished while not having anything to do with it at all. But, it was horrific what happened to children within the halls of that University and something had to be done to prevent that from happening again. I hate that innocent players on that team are paying for what happened though. Even with the ability to transfer to another school, most schools are a month away from finalizing their rosters and final preparations for the upcoming season. The likelihood of these kids being able to transfer to another school now is VERY low.

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Agreed, something did have to be done, and I honestly was expecting much, much worse from the NCAA than what was actually handed out. But the NCAA still needs to start finding a better method of punishment than fucking over the innocent players who had nothing to do with the infractions or whatever the NCAA is punishing. They are getting punished solely for being associated with the same team as those who committed the sins in the past were. That'd be like me being arrested and thrown in jail for something my sister did solely because I'm from the same family as her. The current and future players are being punished solely because they're from the same "family"/team as those being punished.

Same bullshit with USC, same bullshit with Ohio State, same bullshit when Miami gets up on stage in the future for their punishment. The players who had nothing to do with the crimes get punished, the players who committed the crimes are already long gone earning millions in the NFL and not giving a shit about what the NCAA does to their former team. Same thing with coaches. The smart coaches jump ship for greener pastures (Pete Carroll jumping to the NFL and Seattle right before the shit hit the fan) and don't get punished, the poor bastard who has the unfortunate luck to follow gets fucked over.

That's why I have said for years and still say, the NCAA has GOT to find a better way. Take these fines and start handing out millions in fines for future infractions. Take Miami for instance. Whatever the final story ends up being, A couple dozen million will be one hell of a wake up call to Miami to get their shit in order. Just like $60 million will do the same for Penn State. An entire football season's revenue gone at the snap of a finger like that, yeah, I think that will definitely get their attention. Fine the schools, blackball the coaches, if the players get caught while still in school, blackball the individual players so they can go drop to a lower division and not give a fuck, end their college eligibility entirely, for any level, and kick their ass out of football/sports. But stop fucking over the kids who had absolutely nothing to do with a damn thing.

Like I said, it's ironic as hell here with Penn State, because of horrible things that a monster did to kids in the past, more kids are going to get figuratively fucked by the NCAA now, for something they had absolutely nothing to do with, nor any knowledge that it was even happening.

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Originally Posted by JBHuskers

Bobby Bowden is happy with the vacating wins.

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I don't know Bowden all that well but he would have to be one twisted SOB to be happy with this and I'd hope he feel like he'd gladly give up his record if this scandal had never happened.

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Originally Posted by souljahbill

So is Grambling St. University
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_Robinson.jpg

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Originally Posted by Deuce

I don't think Bowden or Grambling St. is going to be happy. No one from now until the end of time is going to mention the all time wins leader without bringing up Paterno and this tragedy. It's really a shame...


It's like the home run record in baseball. That record is forever tarnished until someone 'clean' breaks it.

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Yep noone is going to want to talk about the record and I just don't see anyone breaking the current mark anytime in the near future. Someone would have to coach for a virtual eternity (which just doesn't happen often any more).

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Originally Posted by psusnoop

For most it will never be enough. :smh:

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There are some heinous acts for which no punishment we are capable of giving is ever enough. Honestly I'd been fine with ANY "harsh" penalty. This penalty in the range of penalties I would have found "acceptable" fell slightly on the lenient side. Honestly, I would have been fine with a PERMANENT BAN for Penn State football without the possibility of reinstitution. (i.e. a "real" "death penalty"). Football ran this school for decades and it ran the school into shameful and criminal conduct to protect a football team.

It's sad for Penn State's fans and its current athletes. However, the NCAA has done the best it could with the situation by allowing for immediate transfers and/or the student can continue at school and not play football. I hope other schools are helpful with the kids that just want to leave.

Cowherd makes a good point. Killing Penn State's program's ability to compete doesn't help the abuse victims. A competitive robust PSU does, as they make more money that can be paid annually to this fund.

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Originally Posted by JBHuskers

Cowherd makes a good point. Killing Penn State's program's ability to compete doesn't help the abuse victims. A competitive robust PSU does, as they make more money that can be paid annually to this fund.

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That, and killing Penn State's program kills every single other sport at Penn State. Just like pretty much every other damn university in this country, I'm guessing Penn State probably subsidizes the budgets for 95%+ of their sports programs from football and basketball revenue (the football revenue predominately the majority). You take away that revenue, every single athlete associated with Penn State is suddenly being told to go fuck themselves, when absolutely none of them had anything to do with what happened. Punish those involved, not those who were unfortunately affiliated with the same university.

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Originally Posted by JBHuskers

Cowherd makes a good point. Killing Penn State's program's ability to compete doesn't help the abuse victims. A competitive robust PSU does, as they make more money that can be paid annually to this fund.

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That's a DUMB argument. By the same logic, killing the Aurora, CO shooter with the death penalty doesn't help the victims an employed shooter does so that his money from work can be paid to help victims of crime.

Again, society needs to understand that there are some actions where the best we can do is PUNISH the wrongdoer. $60,000,000 mandatory "donation" to outside charities helps victims a great amount. Moreover, I have a hunch Penn State will likely continue to make additional donations to outside charities as a "PR" boost.

Big 10 is also going to punish Penn State at 11 EST.

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Originally Posted by CLW

That's a DUMB argument. By the same logic, killing the Aurora, CO shooter with the death penalty doesn't help the victims an employed shooter does so that his money from work can be paid to help victims of crime.

Again, society needs to understand that there are some actions where the best we can do is PUNISH the wrongdoer. $60,000,000 mandatory "donation" to outside charities helps victims a great amount. Moreover, I have a hunch Penn State will likely continue to make additional donations to outside charities as a "PR" boost.

Big 10 is also going to punish Penn State at 11 EST.

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Outside of pulling their own "death penalty" by kicking Penn State out of the Big Ten, other than ban Penn State from the Big Ten Championship game, what the hell else can the Big Ten do? Since this is being made a football, football, football issue by the media and NCAA, it's not like you can also ban Penn State from the Big Ten basketball tournament or something. Basically nothing more than the Big Ten's own opportunity to get up in front of the cameras, put on a show for the public, save face and try to make themselves look good in the public eye by "punishing Penn State to achieve justice for others".

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Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes

Outside of pulling their own "death penalty" by kicking Penn State out of the Big Ten, other than ban Penn State from the Big Ten Championship game, what the hell else can the Big Ten do? Since this is being made a football, football, football issue by the media and NCAA, it's not like you can also ban Penn State from the Big Ten basketball tournament or something. Basically nothing more than the Big Ten's own opportunity to get up in front of the cameras, put on a show for the public, save face and try to make themselves look good in the public eye by "punishing Penn State to achieve justice for others".

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Heard a rumor this morning that Penn State was worried that the Big 10 would REVOKE its membership for X years and then it could reapply after that time.

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Originally Posted by CLW

Heard a rumor this morning that Penn State was worried that the Big 10 would REVOKE its membership for X years and then it could reapply after that time.

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I know in the wake of the horrific things that happened, that would be justified, but after the NCAA coming out with much lighter punishments that I was even expecting to be handed down, the Big Ten went through all the hassle and all the money spent working Nebraska into the conference and changing things to a 12 team conference, to just piss that immediately down the drain, as well as all the work put in to create the Big Ten Championship game (unless they can somehow get the NCAA to let them keep it with only 11 teams on a special granting by the NCAA), everything the Big Ten has done, the hours and money spent, will be completely destroyed until Penn State was let back in. I'm just not sure the Big Ten would be willing to willingly do that to themselves, just to punish Penn State, especially after the NCAA, while still severe penalties, was not as severe as everyone thought and expected.

the loss of 40 schollies over 4 years will definitely hurt them, but the loss of 20 roster spots hurts them even more. carrying a 65 man roster for 4 years will be brutal.

I don't understand and don't agree with vacated from wins from Paterno's record. What does this accomplish? Nothing IMO. It's isn't like they had an competitive advantage over other teams during that time span.

A way to get Paterno's name off the record list.

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Originally Posted by souljahbill

Oh, GSU is happy. They were already looking into getting JoePa's wins vacated.

Article Here

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The city was, but not his family. His family stated as much last week if I recall a sports radio talk show conversation about it correctly. The host had met Eddie before and didn't think he would be happy at all about the record.

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Originally Posted by CLW

That's a DUMB argument. By the same logic, killing the Aurora, CO shooter with the death penalty doesn't help the victims an employed shooter does so that his money from work can be paid to help victims of crime.

Again, society needs to understand that there are some actions where the best we can do is PUNISH the wrongdoer. $60,000,000 mandatory "donation" to outside charities helps victims a great amount. Moreover, I have a hunch Penn State will likely continue to make additional donations to outside charities as a "PR" boost.

Big 10 is also going to punish Penn State at 11 EST.

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How does disabling the football program really make those victims feel better?

Here's a good question? Do all of the losses from '98-'11 get vacated too? :)

Pat Forde ‏@YahooForde

Quick thought on NCAA penalties: Penn State is smashed, and the vacated wins is a direct shot at Paterno's legacy. Now back to work.

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Originally Posted by AustinWolv

A way to get Paterno's name off the record list.

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Yeah, I know that's the reason why but it seems unnecessary. JMO of course.

Penn State will still be in the Big Ten. Discussion on Big Ten Network right now, the Big Ten has already released it's punishments on paper. They'll be part of the party with the NCAA watching over the 5 years probation, Penn State banned from the Big Ten championship game for however many years down the road, and their entire share of bowl money will follow the same path as the NCAA's $60 million fine, it'll all be given away to organizations.