IGN LiveStream of NCAA Football 12 - Video & Recap

[JBHuskers]

Then what was the gameplanning button on the left for?

On the left of?

[psuexv]

Do you mean the "Choose Style" (B)?

If so, that's for playcalling style such as "By Formation" (normal), "Ask Coach", "Recent Plays", etc.

If not, point me in the direction of what you're talking about.

Ok yeah it's choose style... I couldn't remember exactly what it was. Just found it again in the vid.

[xMrHitStickx904]

another livestream tonight I presume.


http://www.gamespot.com/shows/on-the-spot/

saw it on FB.

[xMrHitStickx904]

I'll admit, when Madden and NCAA played the same on the PS2, I thought those were glory days we wouldn't see for awhile. I feel like both games have taken their own identity, especially with how they play, and it looks great. Definitely looking forward to th demo when it comes out, just to get a feel of how it plays. It looks like it plays like NCAA 11, but 09 and 10 did as well, and we saw how that turned out.

[rhombic21]

I'll add in on the sacks comments as well because in the FSU vs FLA game there were only 14 plays and of those 14, I think it was 9 of them were pass plays. Just not enough to gauge whether there is or isn't an effective pass rush in my opinion.

You guys are focusing on the wrong statistic. Most defensive coordinators don't just care about sacks, they care about QB pressures and hurries. In watching the videos, there are basically 3 possible outcomes on passing plays. 1) Somebody beats their man immediately and gets virtually instant pressure, 2) The defense blitzes and somebody comes in untouched and gets immediate pressure, or 3) Nobody beats their man immediately and the QB has virtually all day to pass.

The issue is not the lack of sacks. That has NEVER been the issue. The issue is that it's completely all or nothing. On the non-sack plays, the QB has virtually all day to pass and is rarely even forced to reset in the pocket or evade pressure. He has nobody in his face and is not forced to make a quick decision (unless the defense blitzes, in which case there is a hole in the coverage that can be exploited easily so long as the blitz is properly identified).

The issue is that the front 4 on this game rarely does anything to disrupt the passing game. Aside from a handful of times when they get instant pressure due to rare "win" animations playing out, most of the sacks that you see on this game are coverage sacks, or are generated via blitzes that result in an unblocked rusher. In real life dominant defensive lines affect the game on EVERY snap, not just the ones where they actually sack the QB. They do so by forcing the offense to execute the passing game under pressure and without a lot of time for deeper routes to develop. What's really missing here is the ability of the DL to force the QB to get rid of the ball before he wants to. That is what the issue is, and that's what the issue has always been.

Stop focusing on sack statistics as the only metric to judge the pass rush.

[xMrHitStickx904]

EDIT : disregard.

[xMrHitStickx904]

You guys are focusing on the wrong statistic. Most defensive coordinators don't just care about sacks, they care about QB pressures and hurries. In watching the videos, there are basically 3 possible outcomes on passing plays. 1) Somebody beats their man immediately and gets virtually instant pressure, 2) The defense blitzes and somebody comes in untouched and gets immediate pressure, or 3) Nobody beats their man immediately and the QB has virtually all day to pass.

The issue is not the lack of sacks. That has NEVER been the issue. The issue is that it's completely all or nothing. On the non-sack plays, the QB has virtually all day to pass and is rarely even forced to reset in the pocket or evade pressure. He has nobody in his face and is not forced to make a quick decision (unless the defense blitzes, in which case there is a hole in the coverage that can be exploited easily so long as the blitz is properly identified).

The issue is that the front 4 on this game rarely does anything to disrupt the passing game. Aside from a handful of times when they get instant pressure due to rare "win" animations playing out, most of the sacks that you see on this game are coverage sacks, or are generated via blitzes that result in an unblocked rusher. In real life dominant defensive lines affect the game on EVERY snap, not just the ones where they actually sack the QB. They do so by forcing the offense to execute the passing game under pressure and without a lot of time for deeper routes to develop. What's really missing here is the ability of the DL to force the QB to get rid of the ball before he wants to. That is what the issue is, and that's what the issue has always been.

Stop focusing on sack statistics as the only metric to judge the pass rush.

Completely agree with you 100 % here, I rather hurry the QB and get hits at a good ratio, rather than the "hit or miss" tactic for sacks right now.

[Jayrah]

Completely agree with you 100 % here, I rather hurry the QB and get hits at a good ratio, rather than the "hit or miss" tactic for sacks right now.

Yup this is definitely the issue. Not the sack count

[Rudy]

I agree with Rhombic about the all or nothing pressure. That's why they need to reduce pancakes and knock downs and find a way to keep the players moving while blocking. A DT that gets a bull rush up the middle that just slowly pushes the guard back into the QB is good. Having the right ratio between a player quickly beating his opponent vs. a gradual win or lose is the important thing. It would also help the spread-option running game.

That said, I suck at passing. If I only got 3 seconds to throw the ball against the cpu I would never get anything going. I can usually get this area pretty good for me with sliders. I honestly haven't cared that much about the pass rush the last few years for offline play. 90%+ of the complaints come from the online community.

[psusnoop]

Not a whole lot of blitzing going on either. Also some pretty good O-line's involved. Would you like to see more bull rushes? LOL! Will have to wait it out on the pressure thing. However I will say that pressure is not a huge concern for me at default level, as long as I can tweak it in sliders to allow for better pressure, that will be fine.



One sack in 10 minutes of play is not good pressure. However to account for scrambling qb's and again, not much blitzing, it's not bad.

I will watch them for sure...

Am I the only one that thought the rush was good? I feel like there was a good amount of pressure. Some plays had no pressure but others had a guy breaking thru as the pass was thrown. There is not necessarily pressure in real football on every play. I think I saw 1 sack in 2 qtrs played. ...not bad.

You guys are focusing on the wrong statistic. Most defensive coordinators don't just care about sacks, they care about QB pressures and hurries. In watching the videos, there are basically 3 possible outcomes on passing plays. 1) Somebody beats their man immediately and gets virtually instant pressure, 2) The defense blitzes and somebody comes in untouched and gets immediate pressure, or 3) Nobody beats their man immediately and the QB has virtually all day to pass.

The issue is not the lack of sacks. That has NEVER been the issue. The issue is that it's completely all or nothing. On the non-sack plays, the QB has virtually all day to pass and is rarely even forced to reset in the pocket or evade pressure. He has nobody in his face and is not forced to make a quick decision (unless the defense blitzes, in which case there is a hole in the coverage that can be exploited easily so long as the blitz is properly identified).

The issue is that the front 4 on this game rarely does anything to disrupt the passing game. Aside from a handful of times when they get instant pressure due to rare "win" animations playing out, most of the sacks that you see on this game are coverage sacks, or are generated via blitzes that result in an unblocked rusher. In real life dominant defensive lines affect the game on EVERY snap, not just the ones where they actually sack the QB. They do so by forcing the offense to execute the passing game under pressure and without a lot of time for deeper routes to develop. What's really missing here is the ability of the DL to force the QB to get rid of the ball before he wants to. That is what the issue is, and that's what the issue has always been.

Stop focusing on sack statistics as the only metric to judge the pass rush.

Rhombic, I wasn't saying that I think the rush is perfect by any means either just to be sure we are understanding each other. Nor was I pointing out that hey there was 1 sack in the game in 2 quarters it should be fine. I saw some posts that could have been taken that way by some and wanted to share my opinion that it may be a little early to jump to that conclusion.

I also saw where you said that there were to many Defensive Lineman falling down and I think I counted 6 players falling or being pancaked in the first quarter we saw of FSU vs FLA and that number didn't stick out as to much to me. Twice the DT was double teamed, once it was a user. But again it is such a small sampling to even think about drawing a comparision on that level that it isn't fair to anyone to do so.

[psusnoop]

I agree with Rhombic about the all or nothing pressure. That's why they need to reduce pancakes and knock downs and find a way to keep the players moving while blocking. A DT that gets a bull rush up the middle that just slowly pushes the guard back into the QB is good. Having the right ratio between a player quickly beating his opponent vs. a gradual win or lose is the important thing. It would also help the spread-option running game.

That said, I suck at passing. If I only got 3 seconds to throw the ball against the cpu I would never get anything going. I can usually get this area pretty good for me with sliders. I honestly haven't cared that much about the pass rush the last few years for offline play. 90%+ of the complaints come from the online community.

I think I'm the worst passer in the damn game. I feel that way at times atleast.

[Deuce]

I'll focus on whatever I want. Judging the game on 10 minutes of gameplay is dumb...good or bad.

[rhombic21]

I'll focus on whatever I want. Judging the game on 10 minutes of gameplay is dumb...good or bad.

Let's be honest, here. I'm judging it on more than just 10 minutes of gameplay, because I played hundreds of hours on NCAA 09-11, and for all intents and purposes the line play on '12 is similar to what it was on those games. That much is clear after watching the videos that have already been released, and after listening to what people who had hands-on time with the game had to say.

[psusnoop]

I'll focus on whatever I want. Judging the game on 10 minutes of gameplay is dumb...good or bad.

Absolutely that is the great thing about a game with sliders, you can adjust things to ones liking. What you may like as far as pressure and time to release the ball may and probably will be different from me or anyone else for that matter. Doesn't mean you or me are wrong, just different in things we enjoy out of the game. Which is why appeasing one set of people may upset the cart for others which makes EA's job all that much more difficult to balance.

[rhombic21]

I also saw where you said that there were to many Defensive Lineman falling down and I think I counted 6 players falling or being pancaked in the first quarter we saw of FSU vs FLA and that number didn't stick out as to much to me. Twice the DT was double teamed, once it was a user. But again it is such a small sampling to even think about drawing a comparision on that level that it isn't fair to anyone to do so.

I guess I disagree. If we're talking about 6 players falling down in less than 20 snaps of play, that's a fairly high frequency of defensive linemen getting blocked completely to the ground, which doesn't happen all that often (on passing plays in particular), in real life. In the OK State-Missou vid, there is one play on Ben's second drive where 3 of the 4 defensive linemen end up on the ground. That just seems over the top to me.

But again, it's not about specific animations, though the animations they have in the game are pretty poor which probably contributes to the poor line play. The broader point is that the front 4 does not generate anything that resembles a realistic pass rush in terms of affecting the offense's timing in the passing game.

As for the people saying that they can't pass in under 3 seconds, my reaction to that is that you either shouldn't be playing on the default difficulty or you should be the ones adjusting sliders. The default settings should not cater to people who self-identify as horrible passers. Further, if you were routinely forced to throw it quicker, you'd probably adjust eventually and get better at making good pre-snap reads and learning how to quickly progress through your reads.

Sliders do not apply for online play (ranked games or dynasty), and thus the default settings are important for head to head competition, which is supposed to be geared towards rewarding the better player. It doesn't do that when the settings are such that gameplay is not accurately represented in terms of certain things being too easy or hard relative to how real football is played.

[I OU a Beatn]

Sliders do not apply for online play (ranked games or dynasty), and thus the default settings are important for head to head competition, which is supposed to be geared towards rewarding the better player. It doesn't do that when the settings are such that gameplay is not accurately represented in terms of certain things being too easy or hard relative to how real football is played.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[psusnoop]

The amount of gamers online in rooms are not looking for a sim game they are looking for W's and there lies the difference. Where as in an online dynasty you have players that want a great game without all the cheese and adjust the sliders to help in those areas.

[Deuce]

This is a pointless discussion for me. I look at the game differently than most people. I choose to enjoy the game...I do every year. I figure if I'm paying $60 bucks are so then I better have fun. I use my imagination and try and justify most glitches, bugs, or cheats. If there is a play that works too well...I don't call it. Never called verticals last year b/c it was obviously money. All those little things that bug most people usually doesn't bother me.

[rhombic21]

Sliders don't even apply for user v user online dynasty games, so even if your argument about ranked games were valid (and it isn't), there's still no excuse for having the pass rush be so ineffective on the default settings.

People playing online games who only care about Ws will maximize to whatever the game allows. If the game forced them to play more realistically, then they'd play more realistically and have the same amount of fun. But the rest of us would have more fun too. And just because people play ranked games doesn't mean they want arcade football with ineffective pass defense. There are more people who play ranked games but still want a "sim" experience than you realize.

[Rudy]

As for the people saying that they can't pass in under 3 seconds, my reaction to that is that you either shouldn't be playing on the default difficulty or you should be the ones adjusting sliders. The default settings should not cater to people who self-identify as horrible passers. Further, if you were routinely forced to throw it quicker, you'd probably adjust eventually and get better at making good pre-snap reads and learning how to quickly progress through your reads.

Sliders do not apply for online play (ranked games or dynasty), and thus the default settings are important for head to head competition, which is supposed to be geared towards rewarding the better player. It doesn't do that when the settings are such that gameplay is not accurately represented in terms of certain things being too easy or hard relative to how real football is played.

I understand that online play has to play on default. I've never liked an EA football game on any default settings. The cpu run game is usually brutal and needs a lot of help on AA. That's usually the one area that needs the most work. I recognize the fact that I may have to adjust sliders offline but I'm OK with that as an offline player.

I do get annoyed when people tell me that I should suck it up, practice and get better. I've been playing football games for years. I'm not going to get much better. End of discussion. I have the same annoying argument about the pitch speed in MLB The Show. It's too fast and the slider doesn't work well. I get frustrated and I've given up on that game because of it. I'd rather play MLB 2K11 and not be so frustrated.

Absolutely that is the great thing about a game with sliders, you can adjust things to ones liking. What you may like as far as pressure and time to release the ball may and probably will be different from me or anyone else for that matter. Doesn't mean you or me are wrong, just different in things we enjoy out of the game. Which is why appeasing one set of people may upset the cart for others which makes EA's job all that much more difficult to balance.

Totally agree which is why I love sliders and why I'm pushing for a separate man vs. zone coverage slider which should be very easy to implement.