NCAA Football 12 uStream Developer Chat - Recap

[morsdraconis]

The only negative I will say regarding the coach mode is that you have to snap the ball each time. It might seem like a small deal but in the little I played, I became annoyed with it. I'd prefer to call the play and just sit back but obviously they want to give the option to do hot routes, etc.

It wouldn't be true coach mode without that ability though. Being unable to change the play at all once it's called wouldn't be true to form. Personally, I'm VERY glad that they brought that with it and it's not just choosing the play and progressing but actually allowing you to make changes and such but removing your ability to do anything with the sticks after the play happens.

[gschwendt]

It wouldn't be true coach mode without that ability though. Being unable to change the play at all once it's called wouldn't be true to form. Personally, I'm VERY glad that they brought that with it and it's not just choosing the play and progressing but actually allowing you to make changes and such but removing your ability to do anything with the sticks after the play happens.

Yeah, I definitely see the argument for it... just not my cup of tea. I'll certainly try it again in the released game.

[Jayrah]

The only negative I will say regarding the coach mode is that you have to snap the ball each time. It might seem like a small deal but in the little I played, I became annoyed with it. I'd prefer to call the play and just sit back but obviously they want to give the option to do hot routes, etc.

It wouldn't be true coach mode without that ability though. Being unable to change the play at all once it's called wouldn't be true to form. Personally, I'm VERY glad that they brought that with it and it's not just choosing the play and progressing but actually allowing you to make changes and such but removing your ability to do anything with the sticks after the play happens.

Not during cpu vs cpu though right? Also, I'm hoping that this is available for OD's. And maybe the ability for at least the commish to see cpu games. The most amazing thing is if we could watch user games online, but that's very wishful thinking. Either way, I can't wait for a blog on this. Interested to see what all the schematics are. I love Roy. LOL he looks like a total nerd. But I think we all are.....for football!

And by the way, did anyone else see Ben's eyes light up when Roy told them they could talk about the Cam?! LOL. Looked like Christmas at the Haumiller household. Something NEW!!!!!

[Jayrah]

Oh my God, that stadium sound feature was the most awesome thing. I'm all revved up from that! I LOL'd big time when the smaller crowds came on. And of course the girlfriend just rolled her eyes. What can ya do?

To go along with that, another thing that I noticed being mentioned that we haven't really touched on in the forum all that much is dynamic attendance. He mentioned it as if it was going to be far more prevalent than in previous iterations. I know 2K11 really pushed the dynamic attendance, but as cool as it was, it still wasn't dynamic enough for me. I am interested in seeing what they do here. Some stadiums like Michigan/OSU/Tenn/LSU etc, never really have anything but a sellout, however during a down season you can still tell a difference in the crowd reactions. A lot of that has to do with the human nature and element of belief, but regardless, it's a dynamic that not many other sports have. When a team is down in a lot of sports, the crowds stop coming out. For a lot of college football, that's not the case. Will that be the case in the game, where you still see sellouts with those teams? Or will every stadium and atmosphere react the same way when "the season is tanking" as Ben so eloquently put it, and begin to empty?

[rhombic21]

So, they bill all this pre-game stuff as a huge feature that really improves the game, and then they confirm that none of it shows up in online games (ranked or online dynasty). The pre-game stuff is in Madden, so they clearly have the technology to put it in NCAA. What they basically admitted on the show is that people would want to skip past it and not watch the same thing over and over.

Here's a thought: if it's not important enough that you think it should be included in online games, or if you think people aren't going to want to watch it after the first couple times the play the game, then skip it altogether and add something else. I don't really care that much for the pre-game intros, but I basically play online 100% of the time, so what this amounts to is that they dedicated a HUGE amount of programming time to something that effectively never shows up for me when I play the game. I'd rather they take the time they used for that and focus on any number of other things.

This is the shit that makes me feel like EA has no excuse to talk about resource limitations as a reason for not getting features or improvements into the game. If they didn't waste so much time on shit that either made the game worse, or which has absolutely no impact on the game at all, they could get a lot more done.

[gschwendt]

Serious question to you rhombic, since the code itself is likely wrapped up (next week mostly likely for tuning), would you want them to spend any amount of time adding the team entrances to online play via patch? My thought would be just skip it all with first button push but if both guys want to watch it, neither pushes a button and they're good. I don't know how likely they would be able to patch that in or not but it's something that can be mentioned.

[Paakaa10]

So, they bill all this pre-game stuff as a huge feature that really improves the game, and then they confirm that none of it shows up in online games (ranked or online dynasty). The pre-game stuff is in Madden, so they clearly have the technology to put it in NCAA. What they basically admitted on the show is that people would want to skip past it and not watch the same thing over and over.

Here's a thought: if it's not important enough that you think it should be included in online games, or if you think people aren't going to want to watch it after the first couple times the play the game, then skip it altogether and add something else. I don't really care that much for the pre-game intros, but I basically play online 100% of the time, so what this amounts to is that they dedicated a HUGE amount of programming time to something that effectively never shows up for me when I play the game. I'd rather they take the time they used for that and focus on any number of other things.

This is the shit that makes me feel like EA has no excuse to talk about resource limitations as a reason for not getting features or improvements into the game. If they didn't waste so much time on shit that either made the game worse, or which has absolutely no impact on the game at all, they could get a lot more done.

If NCAA Football or Madden NFL were online-only games, then I would agree with your general statement that since these entrances won't show up in online games, time shouldn't be spent on them.

But there are a good number of gamers who play primarily offline; a recent OperationSports.com poll revealed that over half of their community rarely plays online, and that's known as a fairly "hardcore" community. The people who play primarily offline will get to see these entrances every time, and many of them--myself included--will watch them every time because I appreciate the attention to detail in adding these traditions to the game.

It is also important to realize that creating entrances and traditions has no effect whatsoever on time that "should be" spent programming the gameplay. The creative/art team creates these entrances and these traditions, while the gameplay team--a completely separate group of programmers--is focused on creating the game actually played on the sticks. And since that gameplay team--which creates the base code for gameplay for both NCAA and Madden--is due to just about double in size, there should be even less justification in the future for complaining that improvements to the artistic side of the game are "sucking up the time and resources" for making the game itself better.

[souljahbill]

If NCAA Football or Madden NFL were online-only games, then I would agree with your general statement that since these entrances won't show up in online games, time shouldn't be spent on them.

But there are a good number of gamers who play primarily offline; a recent OperationSports.com poll revealed that over half of their community rarely plays online, and that's known as a fairly "hardcore" community. The people who play primarily offline will get to see these entrances every time, and many of them--myself included--will watch them every time because I appreciate the attention to detail in adding these traditions to the game.

It is also important to realize that creating entrances and traditions has no effect whatsoever on time that "should be" spent programming the gameplay. The creative/art team creates these entrances and these traditions, while the gameplay team--a completely separate group of programmers--is focused on creating the game actually played on the sticks. And since that gameplay team--which creates the base code for gameplay for both NCAA and Madden--is due to just about double in size, there should be even less justification in the future for complaining that improvements to the artistic side of the game are "sucking up the time and resources" for making the game itself better.

Thanks for saving me a lot of typing.


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[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

there still is a mindset about the development of this game that its 4 dudes sharing cubicles somewhere and they all split up everything in the game between them...

"E"

[steelerfan]

If NCAA Football or Madden NFL were online-only games, then I would agree with your general statement that since these entrances won't show up in online games, time shouldn't be spent on them.

But there are a good number of gamers who play primarily offline; a recent OperationSports.com poll revealed that over half of their community rarely plays online, and that's known as a fairly "hardcore" community. The people who play primarily offline will get to see these entrances every time, and many of them--myself included--will watch them every time because I appreciate the attention to detail in adding these traditions to the game.

It is also important to realize that creating entrances and traditions has no effect whatsoever on time that "should be" spent programming the gameplay. The creative/art team creates these entrances and these traditions, while the gameplay team--a completely separate group of programmers--is focused on creating the game actually played on the sticks. And since that gameplay team--which creates the base code for gameplay for both NCAA and Madden--is due to just about double in size, there should be even less justification in the future for complaining that improvements to the artistic side of the game are "sucking up the time and resources" for making the game itself better.

+1

Some people just want to bitch, moan, and bellyache at every opportunity. If entrances were part of online games, he'd bitch that he has to button through them. Lame.

[steelerfan]

there still is a mindset about the development of this game that its 4 dudes sharing cubicles somewhere and they all split up everything in the game between them...

"E"

People should look at the credits sometime, lol.

[JBHuskers]

+1

Some people just want to bitch, moan, and bellyache at every opportunity. If entrances were part of online games, he'd bitch that he has to button through them. Lame.

No shit....it was like this last year. Where was the rage all year last year, and now all of a sudden it's the end of the world?

[Jayrah]

Serious question to you rhombic, since the code itself is likely wrapped up (next week mostly likely for tuning), would you want them to spend any amount of time adding the team entrances to online play via patch? My thought would be just skip it all with first button push but if both guys want to watch it, neither pushes a button and they're good. I don't know how likely they would be able to patch that in or not but it's something that can be mentioned.

YES YES YES! Idk what Rhombic answers I want to see this!

I play in primarily OD's now. Cpu games still include entrances, so this still is an important part of the atmosphere for me. I watch every single pregame because it gets me amped. And now that Custom Music is in for this, it would be cool to go into another users stadium and their choice of music is opening the game up.

BTW would someone find out if cpu jersey selection can be done in OD's please? I understand that they won't allow you to move to the other team so that you don't play as them, but you should be able to select the uniform of both teams regardless. It's a small thing but it bugs the crap out of me. OR at least make the cpu uni select randomly please.

[gschwendt]

YES YES YES! Idk what Rhombic answers I want to see this!

I play in primarily OD's now. Cpu games still include entrances, so this still is an important part of the atmosphere for me. I watch every single pregame because it gets me amped. And now that Custom Music is in for this, it would be cool to go into another users stadium and their choice of music is opening the game up.

BTW would someone find out if cpu jersey selection can be done in OD's please? I understand that they won't allow you to move to the other team so that you don't play as them, but you should be able to select the uniform of both teams regardless. It's a small thing but it bugs the crap out of me. OR at least make the cpu uni select randomly please.

I'm not making the trip but I'd agree that it would be nice to be able to see them show up in OD User vs User games and will encourage those making the trip to express this. That said, one hurdle I can see is regarding Stadium Sounds... since it's stored on your HDD, your opponent certainly wouldn't hear it. They would likely have to add an additional logic step to help cover that for your opponent.

As far as the CPU jersey selection... honestly not sure if that's in this year or not, however I would expect the "random uniform" idea to be more likely than allowing you to pick the CPU's uniforms simply because again, additional logic/interface would have to be added to allow you to modify their uniforms while not allowing you to control them at the team select screen.

[Jayrah]

I'm not making the trip but I'd agree that it would be nice to be able to see them show up in OD User vs User games and will encourage those making the trip to express this. That said, one hurdle I can see is regarding Stadium Sounds... since it's stored on your HDD, your opponent certainly wouldn't hear it. They would likely have to add an additional logic step to help cover that for your opponent.

As far as the CPU jersey selection... honestly not sure if that's in this year or not, however I would expect the "random uniform" idea to be more likely than allowing you to pick the CPU's uniforms simply because again, additional logic/interface would have to be added to allow you to modify their uniforms while not allowing you to control them at the team select screen.

Ok well at least so the one guy can see it. Maybe the option to play shared files, so that I can download the music that other users are using, and apply it via my HDD to their team. Then it would play on my end through MY HDD, and of course it would play for them as well.

Jersey selection. Yeah that would be fine. Even if it wasn't totally random, at least have different "away" or "home" options and have it randomly select from those.

[cdj]

BTW would someone find out if cpu jersey selection can be done in OD's please? I understand that they won't allow you to move to the other team so that you don't play as them, but you should be able to select the uniform of both teams regardless. It's a small thing but it bugs the crap out of me. OR at least make the cpu uni select randomly please.

I played only in ODs in 11...could you change CPU uniforms in Dynasty games?

[gschwendt]

Ok well at least so the one guy can see it. Maybe the option to play shared files, so that I can download the music that other users are using, and apply it via my HDD to their team. Then it would play on my end through MY HDD, and of course it would play for them as well.

That's a whole different ball of wax and almost certainly wouldn't be added to NCAA12 and likely not ever.

[rhombic21]

1) I'm fairly certain that the art personnel cost money -- money which could otherwise be spent on different program areas, so to act like it's not some kind of tradeoff is absurd. EA has a limited about of resources that they are going to invest in making the game, so money they spend on art (in the form of hiring engineers, building new technology, acquiring art assets, etc...) is money that they DON'T spend on other things. Whether that means hiring additional people for their gameplay team, or investing in technology to implement various kinds of physics engines, or even hiring additional people to work on playbooks, rosters, or even new feature sets. Money spent on one area of the game is money that you cannot spend on other areas.

2) Even within the art department, I would imagine that there's a tradeoff between time spent on things like pre-game rituals and time spent capturing implementing new animations, or even doing other presentation aspects, such as improving the sideline atmosphere. If you're telling me that this is a feature that you expect people to skip a lot, then I don't see why it gets preference over other aspects of art/presentation which would have more staying power. Think about this in addition: if they are expecting people to skip them after the first couple of times playing this year, how much is this feature going to contribute to the game on next year's version or the year afterwards? Probably not all that much. So there's a huge upfront investment, and then a steep decline in the return on that investment over time. My preference is that instead of focusing on things like that, they instead focus on things that improve the core experience in a way that has more staying power. This is just poor long-term strategic planning. And given how much they rely on the "we have limited time/resources" argument when explaining why various features have not been implemented (or have been implemented very poorly), I'm not willing to give them a lot of slack when they then invest some of these limited resources on features that people aren't going to get much enjoyment of about 3 months after the game comes out.

3) All else equal, I would like the presentation to be in online, with the way it is in Madden (if both people choose to skip then it skips). Whether they ought to spend time on that in a patch is a different matter, because I am assuming that there will probably be other, more serious issues related to gameplay or perhaps even dynasty mode that require attention via a patch (there is almost always something that is broken pretty badly in the retail version).

I just think it's baffling to spend a huge amount of your development time on a presentation feature that doesn't even show up in one of the core gameplay modes. If you truly think this is a really cool addition that makes the game better, why WOULDN'T you think that people in online games would want to see it? It makes no sense.

[JBHuskers]

This must be the new dreads at other places

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[ram29jackson]

it does seem rather dumb to spend a month pumping entrance animations and then say you wont see entrances head to head online. Online is trully head to to head so the guy should know he is coming to MY house. If he's an A.D.D. cheesing 12 year old, thats his problem. That said, online players are about 10% of their sales.