• NCAA Football 11 - Dynasty Blog 2 of 3: Prospects

    The second of three NCAA Football 11 Dynasty blogs discusses Prospects within Recruiting.

    Russ Kiniry (NCAA Football 11 Designer) back again and as promised, here is part 2 of the Dynasty Blogs for NCAA Football 11; you can check out the first one about our new Phone Call here. But before we get into the details of the second blog, I'd like to mention one more thing about the New Phone Call that can help you in a call. We were going to reveal this later but there have been a lot of good discussions at various community sites and we want to ensure everyone has all the new information for our new Phone Calls.

    During a call, when you are between topics, there is a chance you can earn what we call a Coaches Choice. This gives you the option to select the next topic and leverage your program's strengths.



    The only catch is, you don't have control about when it appears. For smaller schools, this and the ability to change topics can be life savers during a call. As you really dive into the new Phone Call, you'll be able to see how all these elements tie together and make you think a little about how you'll react. Now let's get on with the rest of the blog...

    For the rest of this blog we are going to go over some of the new things we've done with the Prospects in Dynasty Mode. As you all know, the further you get in future years of Dynasty Mode the more the new Prospects coming into your game matter, so we had to ensure we did a better job this year in creating and ranking these Prospects.



    As you many of you have already guessed, there is a new ratings spread in NCAA Football 11. You'll no longer see dozens of players at 99 OVR in this year's game when looking at the rosters we ship with. Hence, we had to ensure the new Prospects created in Dynasty Mode matched the new philosophy. The Prospects have been re-created... every single one of them. The reason being is we wanted to ensure that all positions in the game had its share of elite players, multiple types of players, and an even spread from top to bottom.

    What classifies as an elite Prospect has changed from previous years with the new ratings spread. As you can imagine, you'll no longer see true freshman come into the game rated in the 90's OVR or even high 80's OVR. Only the top Prospects at any position this year will come in over an 80 OVR and depending on your school, he may or may not be able to start instantly.



    We tried to create each Prospect in a similar mold to players that play at each position each Saturday and built themes for each position. For example, you can scout defensive ends that specialize in a speed pass rush or a strength based run stopper.

    New to the game this year is the ESPNU 150; which replaces the old Top 100 we had in previous versions of NCAA Football. Each of the top 150 Prospects in the nation will be tagged as one of the ESPNU 150 and you'll be able to see that next to their portrait:



    After the Prospects were created and the ESPNU 150 list was filled out, we took a look at how each Prospect was ranked against each other. In years past the Prospects were always ranked by overall; meaning the "best" player was always ranked at the top of the list. Because of this, we had to have kickers, punters, and fullbacks overall ratings lowered to ensure they rarely showed up in the Top 100. To improve the fidelity of this list we've included position into the ranking formula.

    This change sounds pretty simple, but it has a big impact. We can now weigh a position to be more or less valuable in the rankings formula. For example, last year's list would take an 80 OVR QB vs. an 81 OVR Kicker and rate the kicker higher. In this year's game we are able to keep the Kickers rating at an 81 overall, but his ranking will not even crack the ESPNU 150 because his position isn't as valued. Together, this change and the new ratings spread improved the Prospect rankings in the ESPNU 150; and we were still basing the list on overall within each position.



    Using an arbitrary number to adjust the rankings really seemed like a poor way of going about things, so we took a rating that isn't visible to help solve the problem: potential. What we did for some of the Prospects is change both their overall rank and position rank based on the potential they have. This doesn't mean that you'll now see a 40 OVR player as a 5 star... but it does mean you might see a Prospect who is technically a few points lower in OVR rated above another Prospect. So, why did we use Potential?

    This is a rating all Prospects (and players) in our game have, and it matters equally for everyone when it comes to player progression. We took another look at player progression this year and really pushed Potential to be the major force in driving how much better players on your team get. This choice came from gathering lots of feedback from you guys in the community from the forums and the Live Chat we had on the subject a while back. Basically, potential felt like the best equalizer to measure a players worth in conjunction with his overall rating. The balancing factor to keep this more realistic is not every player uses his potential rating to determine his value, so there is still some surprise when you get any Prospect on your roster.



    Once we got the Prospects created and ranked, we moved onto JUCO's next. These Prospects were really easy to deal with after all the work done above. We simply raised the attributes of every JUCO a few points more than they would have been with the new ratings spread and made the value of a JUCO lower in the rankings. So here is a likely scenario for 4 different Prospects you'll see once you have the game:

    Player A - True Freshman QB, 70 Overall rating, 90 Potential rating
    Player B - JUCO Junior HB, 75 Overall rating, 75 Potential rating
    Player C - True Freshman HB, 73 Overall rating, 50 Potential rating
    Player D - True Freshman QB, 71 Overall rating, 70 Potential rating

    On average with the 4 players above would end up being ranked like this in NCAA Football 11:
    1. Player A
    2. Player D
    3. Player C
    4. Player B
    In previous years, only overall would have mattered.

    When you add up all the changes to Prospects and the new Phone Call we've already made some significant changes to Dynasty Mode in NCAA Football 11. But honestly that wasn't enough (and well this is only Blog 2 of 3), so there is still more. What's great is Blog 3 will address some of the comments about the first blog: both about Kent State being in the Top 10 of our 5 Star Fullback (in the last blog's screen shots) and the points showing up in the Top Schools menu. We will take a look at the logic behind signing a Recruit and how the CPU will do it.

    Once again thanks for reading, and keep checking back here for the next blog about Dynasty Mode.

    -Russ Kiniry
    Designer NCAA Football
    Comments 75 Comments
    1. JBHuskers's Avatar
      JBHuskers -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kwizzy View Post
      Just to clarify Pistol, I'm pretty sure the potential rating will still be hidden, it always has been anyway. I don't know if you were thinking it would be shown.

      JB- 3 times in one call seems like it defeats the purpose of the random & limited topics in the first place no?
      Yeah, and I told them it was too many, it was still being tuned.

      At most with promises and skips, you could have up to 12 topics come up for one call.....
    1. Kwizzy's Avatar
      Kwizzy -
      Quote Originally Posted by PISTOLxCOACH View Post
      yeah still hidden, i got that, just figured you could strategically pick up some guys middle of the pack that can really be explosive in 2 years or be good right off the bat, and fade out to a guy you want to red-shirt...

      "E"
      Yeah definitely, adds a whole different set of decisions & depth to recruiting.
    1. JBHuskers's Avatar
      JBHuskers -
      You're most likely going to see this coach's choice only once....but maybe twice.
    1. AustinWolv's Avatar
      AustinWolv -
      Was it already confirmed that roster size was staying the same as previous years? I thought I saw that, but can't recall now.
    1. Deuce's Avatar
      Deuce -
      Quote Originally Posted by AustinWolv View Post
      Was it already confirmed that roster size was staying the same as previous years? I thought I saw that, but can't recall now.
      Good question. I doubt we ever get to 85 man rosters but it would be great. Maybe they could increase injuries and decrease stamina so roster depth would be more important.
    1. Rudy's Avatar
      Rudy -
      Potential is still tied to the overall ranking of the player even though you can't see it. They indicated that when they showed the rankings of the recruits in the 4 player example. I don't know if I like that.
    1. JBHuskers's Avatar
      JBHuskers -
      Quote Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
      Potential is still tied to the overall ranking of the player even though you can't see it. They indicated that when they showed the rankings of the recruits in the 4 player example. I don't know if I like that.
      Why don't you know if you like it? Or what about it don't you like? Just curious.
    1. JBHuskers's Avatar
      JBHuskers -
      Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
      Good question. I doubt we ever get to 85 man rosters but it would be great. Maybe they could increase injuries and decrease stamina so roster depth would be more important.
      I dunno what it is, but there is something that is preventing 85 man rosters. Dunno if something just goes completely haywire by adding more to where they don't want to focus the manhours trying to figure out all the working parts to get it to 85.....that is my best guess.
    1. steelerfan's Avatar
      steelerfan -
      Potential is part of the rankings but not for every player. Therefore, one player could be a 75 as a Freshman and an 85 as a Senior while another could be a 70 as a Freshman and a 90 as a Senior. Depending on whether or not Potential is calculated for those two players, either one could be ranked higher.
    1. JeffHCross's Avatar
      JeffHCross -
      Awesome blog by Russ. Can't wait for Part 3 ... CPU recruiting!!!!
      Quote Originally Posted by JBHuskers View Post
      I dunno what it is, but there is something that is preventing 85 man rosters.
      I actually saw a logical reason for keeping it at 70 the other day. Apparently every BCS conference besides the Pac 10 has a 70-man travel roster. The Pac actually only take 64. While the reasons for remaining at 70 may be technical, there's also a realism reason to keep it at 70, unless the team introduces some kind of "travel roster" system (like healthy scratches in NHL).
    1. JeffHCross's Avatar
      JeffHCross -
      I am amused ... to the point of getting a headache ... that there is not a single mention of Coaching Carousel on this thread on TGT, yet on another site it's in nearly 20% of the posts.

      Good grief.

      And how in the world people think "Coaches Choices" connects to Coaching Carousel is beyond me.
    1. JBHuskers's Avatar
      JBHuskers -
      Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
      Awesome blog by Russ. Can't wait for Part 3 ... CPU recruiting!!!!
      I actually saw a logical reason for keeping it at 70 the other day. Apparently every BCS conference besides the Pac 10 has a 70-man travel roster. The Pac actually only take 64. While the reasons for remaining at 70 may be technical, there's also a realism reason to keep it at 70, unless the team introduces some kind of "travel roster" system (like healthy scratches in NHL).
      Yeah I'm pretty sure one of the devs last year told me there is a technical reason too....but my memory can be the most horrible at times....thank god for Blackberry, the phone and the brandy.
    1. Jayrah's Avatar
      Jayrah -
      Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
      I am amused ... to the point of getting a headache ... that there is not a single mention of Coaching Carousel on this thread on TGT, yet on another site it's in nearly 20% of the posts.

      Good grief.

      And how in the world people think "Coaches Choices" connects to Coaching Carousel is beyond me.
      Jeff.....I'm laughing too man. How the choice of a topic in a recruiting phone call hints at a coach changing schools and taking his system with him is beyond the realm of sophistication. Dimensions far too deep to comprehend I'm sure. DOH! It hurts my head too.
    1. fsuprime's Avatar
      fsuprime -
      Quote Originally Posted by cdj View Post
      Thanks for posting this, Austin.

      I love the changes made to help the ratings of prospects match up with the base roster. That had been a problem for years in the franchise. They really put in a lot of work and time into this huge database, but it'll be worth it.
      yes this is big news for me, it was always terrible after about 2 years of recruiting and most of your base freshman and sophomores were out of the job, rated way to low to compete with random 3 and 4 *s from recruiting.

      also could the potential rating be unlocked once you get him signed and on your roster (like madden)? or will we just have to guess at the potential after one year of training.
    1. JBHuskers's Avatar
      JBHuskers -
      With a set amount of points you can earn based on your schools rating in that particular area....I have a good feeling that smaller schools are going to have a tough time getting the big dogs right off the bat this year. Then you combine this with part two of the blog....the challenge of building up a small school may finally be here. I'm hoping so.
    1. Schauwn's Avatar
      Schauwn -
      ^^

      +1

      me too, its fun to build up small schools, buts it has been unrealistically easy in the past...
    1. JBHuskers's Avatar
      JBHuskers -
      Quote Originally Posted by Schauwn View Post
      ^^

      +1

      me too, its fun to build up small schools, buts it has been unrealistically easy in the past...
      I think that is what has killed longevity and interest in online dynasties.
    1. Solidice's Avatar
      Solidice -
      Quote Originally Posted by JBHuskers View Post
      With a set amount of points you can earn based on your schools rating in that particular area....I have a good feeling that smaller schools are going to have a tough time getting the big dogs right off the bat this year. Then you combine this with part two of the blog....the challenge of building up a small school may finally be here. I'm hoping so.
      should be fun. I love building up bad teams for my offline dynasties. I really love that they are stretching out the ratings and changing up the new recruits too.
    1. BlindRedBaron's Avatar
      BlindRedBaron -
      All this info is really great. Agreed on stretching out the ratings, I really feel that too often a couple of years into a dynasty you have 20 some odd teams with an "A" or better overall rating. I'm sure this will help ameliorate that.

      I echo some of the disappointment that all three of these "dynasty blogs" will be about recruiting. The silver lining is that all of this stuff needed the upgrades, and the fact that they seem to be coming out quickly is a big plus.

      Don't want to sound greedy, but I hope there's more news that may affect dynasties beyond recruiting

      If not, no bigs, just keeping my fingers crossed
    1. Rudy's Avatar
      Rudy -
      Quote Originally Posted by JBHuskers View Post
      Why don't you know if you like it? Or what about it don't you like? Just curious.
      Sorry for the late reply JB - stupid Websense. I think potential is different in every player and I'm not really sure coaches truly know how much potential a player has when they recruit them. About the only time you can predict a higher ceiling is if a kid is a late bloomer physically or hasn't really played much and is raw. I love having potential ratings but nobody should really know what that potential is. It's the unknown that's great in recruiting and I think they should remain hidden. The rankings should be based on what they have done and what they are perceived to be. People can go after all the 4* and 5* kids but you never know how they will really perform in real life. Some 5* kids become first rounders and others disappoint. Some 2 or 3* kids occassionally become great football players. If the game ranks prospects with a weighting system that includes where they will start and their potential, it's almost like knowing what your Christmas gifts are ahead of time. I want to be pleasantly surprised by a kid that ends up better than expected or disappointed in certain kids.