The Trayvon Martin Case

[DariusLock]

So now in Florida you can buy a shirt with a picture of Zimmerman and the word's "Pussy ass cracker."

http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/zimmermanshirt.jpg

[JBHuskers]

Yeah ... not really sending the right message if you want justice for Trayvon..... :fp:

[bdoughty]

Yup. They also seem to be forgetting his mother is Hispanic. :fp:

We have the Black Panthers putting a bounty out on him.
Spike Lee tweeting his address.
The two reverends who still have not apologized to the Duke Lacrosse players.

Like we have gone back to good old fashioned lynch mobs.

[JBHuskers]

Why would you want to wear a shirt with that dude's mug on it anyways :dunno: :D

[DariusLock]

He even looks Mexican, but he automatically is a cracker? :dunno:

[JeffHCross]

He even looks Mexican, but he automatically is a cracker? :dunno:The official police report said he was a Caucasian male :D

[AustinWolv]

facepalm

[DariusLock]

The official police report said he was a Caucasian male :D

Well they are in Florida...guess they forgot what a Caucasian looks like lol.

[steelerfan]

He has a white father and a hispanic mother.

Regardless, hispanics are considered Caucasian.

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[CLW]

This case has Duke LAX on STEROIDS written all over it. The more facts that come out the more it looks like legit self defense to me. Kid had a shall we say "checkered" past including apparent violence against a bus driver.

From what I can tell it looks like Martin saw he was being followed and when confronted attacked the shooter knocking him to the ground. An eye witness says he saw Martin on top of the shooter and the shooter was the one screaming for help. I believe I saw/read somewhere that the shooter said Martin reached for his gun.

But at least we learned something important and that is that all Democrats are racists b/c the shooter was a registered Democrat. And to think for all these years we have been hearing its the Republicans who are the only racists in this country.

[ram29jackson]

he shouldnt have followed him in the first place..he provoked the situation..his poor judgement caused the whole thing.

wghats up with the Charlie Brown shorts look ?

[CLW]

he shouldnt have followed him in the first place..he provoked the situation..his poor judgement caused the whole thing.

wghats up with the Charlie Brown shorts look ?

Perhaps but the last time I checked it is NOT a crime to follow someone you believe is suspicious out in public. If the reports are true Martin "provoked the situation" when he decided to attack Zimmerman by punching him and then beating his head into the concrete and then attempting to reach for Zimmerman's gun.

If that happened to me I'd put more than one bullet in that fucker and not think twice about it.

[JBHuskers]

Spike Lee is a fucking tool for RT'ing an incorrect address and putting an innocent family in danger.

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[CLW]

Spike Lee is a fucking tool for RT'ing an incorrect address and putting an innocent family in danger.

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Apparently he apologized but the old folks have lawyered up. Time to sue Spike Lee in a conservative venue down in FL. :nod:

[DariusLock]

I think black people are just as racist if not more racist than whites. I live in Mississippi and it's quite a sight...I'll hold the door open for a person or say thank you and they just don't do anything but give you the dreaded oh so scary "mean mug". It mostly the younger ones...that really have no reason to think they've been done wrong.

[ram29jackson]

Perhaps but the last time I checked it is NOT a crime to follow someone you believe is suspicious out in public. If the reports are true Martin "provoked the situation" when he decided to attack Zimmerman by punching him and then beating his head into the concrete and then attempting to reach for Zimmerman's gun.

If that happened to me I'd put more than one bullet in that fucker and not think twice about it.


dude,you are following someone while holding your own gun. You really dont have a good defense argument for yourself..it doesnt matter about the kids past..the police told him to back off and he didnt..the kid can attack because he felt threatened

[souljahbill]

I'm staying outta this.

[skipwondah33]

I'll hold the door open for a person or say thank you and they just don't do anything but give you the dreaded oh so scary "mean mug". That happens every where by every race.

On another note police surveillance videos show Zimmerman not hurt at all like he says he was.

Likely the last time I'll comment in this thread...

[JBHuskers]

At least Spike Lee is taking full responsibility.

From EW.com:


Elaine and David McClain are in their 70s and say they have a son named William George Zimmerman, who lived in their Sanford area home in the mid-1990s.

“At this point in time, we have come to an agreement with Spike Lee and his attorneys, and at this point, the matter is fully resolved,” Morgan said. “Spike has agreed to compensate the McClains for their loss and for the disruption into their lives. He’s taken full responsibility.”

[CLW]

dude,you are following someone while holding your own gun. You really dont have a good defense argument for yourself..it doesnt matter about the kids past..the police told him to back off and he didnt..the kid can attack because he felt threatened

Do you really want to argue law with someone with a J.D.? Clearly your post shows an utter lack of knowledge re: the law and more importantly the evidence in this case.

#1 Zimmerman has a right to own/possess a gun in public (read the constitution and case law re: the right to bear arms)
#2 Zimmerman following Martin did not violate any laws or any of Martin's rights
#3 Just being followed by a person does NOT give one the right to punch/attack the follower
#4 There is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman threatened Martin prior to Martin punching/attacking Zimmerman
#5 Evidence re: Martin's character including his past criminal history and support of/engaging in violence is relevant and admissible evidence at trial re: self defense (Zimmerman's character is fair game as well)


Instead of just spouting out utter nonsense from the race baiters and morons running around and screaming like a bunch of idiots try reading up and listening to the people that are acting in a calm manner and sound rational.

Just sayin'

[SmoothPancakes]

Do you really want to argue law with someone with a J.D.? Clearly your post shows an utter lack of knowledge re: the law and more importantly the evidence in this case.

#1 Zimmerman has a right to own/possess a gun in public (read the constitution and case law re: the right to bear arms)
#2 Zimmerman following Martin did not violate any laws or any of Martin's rights
#3 Just being followed by a person does NOT give one the right to punch/attack the follower
#4 There is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman threatened Martin prior to Martin punching/attacking Zimmerman
#5 Evidence re: Martin's character including his past criminal history and support of/engaging in violence is relevant and admissible evidence at trial re: self defense (Zimmerman's character is fair game as well)


Instead of just spouting out utter nonsense from the race baiters and morons running around and screaming like a bunch of idiots try reading up and listening to the people that are acting in a calm manner and sound rational.

Just sayin'

It's ram. The only person right about something, no matter what topic, is him and no one else, no matter how much logic or degrees you throw his way. Thus why I've pretty much given up trying to discuss things with him in topics on here.

[ram29jackson]

Do you really want to argue law with someone with a J.D.? Clearly your post shows an utter lack of knowledge re: the law and more importantly the evidence in this case.

#1 Zimmerman has a right to own/possess a gun in public (read the constitution and case law re: the right to bear arms)
#2 Zimmerman following Martin did not violate any laws or any of Martin's rights
#3 Just being followed by a person does NOT give one the right to punch/attack the follower
#4 There is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman threatened Martin prior to Martin punching/attacking Zimmerman
#5 Evidence re: Martin's character including his past criminal history and support of/engaging in violence is relevant and admissible evidence at trial re: self defense (Zimmerman's character is fair game as well)


Instead of just spouting out utter nonsense from the race baiters and morons running around and screaming like a bunch of idiots try reading up and listening to the people that are acting in a calm manner and sound rational.

Just sayin'

dude ,I'm just giving an opinion about a circumstance. I'm an adult and dont give a damn what your knowledge of law is.
This is a moral character problem as well and both men are guilty in some way or form. Like you mentioned about Zimmermans character as well. The kid could have just kept going but Zimmerman seems like he wanted to make something happen..even in self defense it could still be considered murder no matter what the law says

[SmoothPancakes]

dude ,I'm just giving an opinion about a circumstance. I'm an adult and dont give a damn what your knowledge of law is.
This is a moral character problem as well and both men are guilty in some way or form. Like you mentioned about Zimmermans character as well. The kid could have just kept going but Zimmerman seems like he wanted to make something happen..even in self defense it could still be considered murder no matter what the law says

See what I was telling you CLW? :D

[ram29jackson]

See what I was telling you CLW? :D

all i'm saying is I know the law has its angle but in the truest sense of right and wrong,both are wrong no matter how you slice it.

[DariusLock]

I feel if I see someone in my neighborhood who I have not seen before and he looks suspicious I have the right to ask him what he's doing. And even follow him if I'm that serious...I mean the dude did call the cops before he did anything.

[oweb26]

Do you really want to argue law with someone with a J.D.? Clearly your post shows an utter lack of knowledge re: the law and more importantly the evidence in this case.

#1 Zimmerman has a right to own/possess a gun in public (read the constitution and case law re: the right to bear arms)
#2 Zimmerman following Martin did not violate any laws or any of Martin's rights
#3 Just being followed by a person does NOT give one the right to punch/attack the follower
#4 There is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman threatened Martin prior to Martin punching/attacking Zimmerman
#5 Evidence re: Martin's character including his past criminal history and support of/engaging in violence is relevant and admissible evidence at trial re: self defense (Zimmerman's character is fair game as well)


Instead of just spouting out utter nonsense from the race baiters and morons running around and screaming like a bunch of idiots try reading up and listening to the people that are acting in a calm manner and sound rational.

Just sayin'

While I am not arguing with any of the pretext of your comments here is where I truly don't undertsand,. IF he was being followed where does the line draw to where I feel threatend that some random person is following me. If I am walking through a neghborhood while I am not breaking any laws and neither is he, but I do not know what his intentionas are and he is following me every turn I make.

I am well aware I am looking at this through a different set of eyes than most of you guys as I am a black male and I have been in pretty much all kinds of fucked up situations in my life. From being followed to pulled over and searched for no good damn reason. As such I can honesltly say that if someone was following me for an extended period of time I will begin to feel threatened myself because some random person with whom I do not know there intentions is following me. I think thats just the law of nature maybe not written law.

I will admit I havent been following this story too much because it is too much skewed information either going to one side or the other, but I can say if someone is following me for to long. I am going to stop and ask what the fuck they want and if they move to fast I will hit first and ask questions later. Isn't the law that you can the same amount of force that is used on you? Like if I am fist fighting then you have the right to protect yourself with the same force? I.e no guns to a fist fight.



I feel if I see someone in my neighborhood who I have not seen before and he looks suspicious I have the right to ask him what he's doing. And even follow him if I'm that serious...I mean the dude did call the cops before he did anything.

And the operator recommended he stop following him also. If some random person ask me what I am doing honestly I am just going to ignore them and keep going but if they follow me then the situation can go bad really quick.

[ram29jackson]

really ? I thought oweb26 was just a geeky white name ? LOL j/k

[JBHuskers]

really ? I thought oweb26 was just a geeky white name ? LOL j/k

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/a5c94d80bc8990bfc077b03499654a85.gif

[oweb26]

really ? I thought oweb26 was just a geeky white name ? LOL j/k

lol not quite its really a play off my real name

[DariusLock]

Ahhh shit it's Lil Boosie's homie Webbie.

[ram29jackson]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/a5c94d80bc8990bfc077b03499654a85.gif

:D I saw him in a bank in Pasadena a few years ago

[CLW]

While I am not arguing with any of the pretext of your comments here is where I truly don't undertsand,. IF he was being followed where does the line draw to where I feel threatend that some random person is following me. If I am walking through a neghborhood while I am not breaking any laws and neither is he, but I do not know what his intentionas are and he is following me every turn I make.

I am well aware I am looking at this through a different set of eyes than most of you guys as I am a black male and I have been in pretty much all kinds of fucked up situations in my life. From being followed to pulled over and searched for no good damn reason. As such I can honesltly say that if someone was following me for an extended period of time I will begin to feel threatened myself because some random person with whom I do not know there intentions is following me. I think thats just the law of nature maybe not written law.

I will admit I havent been following this story too much because it is too much skewed information either going to one side or the other, but I can say if someone is following me for to long. I am going to stop and ask what the fuck they want and if they move to fast I will hit first and ask questions later. Isn't the law that you can the same amount of force that is used on you? Like if I am fist fighting then you have the right to protect yourself with the same force? I.e no guns to a fist fight.




And the operator recommended he stop following him also. If some random person ask me what I am doing honestly I am just going to ignore them and keep going but if they follow me then the situation can go bad really quick.


#1 When you are out in public you simply do not have a right to not be followed. Under the law, essentially you have given up many "rights" you have in say your home or another private place (i.e. a right to "privacy"). However, you do not give up all of your rights when in public.

If the facts are as I understand them and the evidence seems to suggest (see above): Martin could say "What the [censored] are you doing?" I.e. he has a 1st Amendment right to say whatever he wants to Zimmerman (and it appears he did do something along those lines). Possibly Zimmerman's response could give Martin the right to self defense (i.e he responds, "I'm going to kick your [censored]" and starts to go after him) However, just because Zimmerman was following him that doesn't allow Martin to punch/attack first.

IF Zimmerman had tried to "apprehend" (grab, punch, kick, tackle, etc...) Martin FIRST then obviously Martin has the right to defend himself from assault/battery etc... However, there is simply ZERO evidence (at least that I am aware of) that this was in fact the case and that is where the law draws the line. You don't have the right not to be followed (by the police or by a private citizen) while out in public but you do have a right to protect yourself from becoming a victim of a crime.

Finally, I should note that it does appear that Martin was indeed probably violating some laws. Although the reports are somewhat inconsistent some evidence suggests Martin was NOT on a public sidewalk when initially spotted by Zimmerman. Rather, Martin was seen on the lawns/property of other home owners in the neighborhood. Granted the crime isn't exactly a "major" one but trespass is generally a crime in most states (not sure about FL but would be surprised if trespass wasn't at least a misdemeanor)


#2 You have the "concept" generally right but are probably thinking too literally about in re: to what force can be used to respond to another


Example/Hypo 1) - X (average guy on the street) accidently bumps into Junior dos Santos (UFC heavyweight champion of the world). Santos flips out and just starts kicking the crap out of X with his fists, feet etc... X is obviously no match for Santos who is significantly stronger than X and obviously has superior fighting skills. X however, has a conceal carry license and while Santos is beating him up and showing no signs of stopping. However, X is able to grab his gun and shoot Santos killing him.

X is not guilty of a crime b/c he used lawful self defense


In short, it's not "eye for an eye. tooth for a tooth" in regards to self defense. (i.e. you can use a gun even if someone else hasn't)

Now the "interesting" distinction (at least for someone that is interested in law/policy) that varries between the states is whether X has a duty to retreat if he can safely do so.

Example/Hypo 2) - So same facts as the example above except before Santos starts to destroy X, X could have retreated and escaped Santos without risking additional/further harm to himself. (I.e. Santos slips and falls and says I'm going to kill you before getting up - which would allow X to run away and escape Santos safely)

This is where the "stand your ground" states/laws come into play. Some states require X to retreat before using deadly force (i.e. his gun). Others (like FL) say X has a right to be in public and thus has no duty to retreat i.e. Santos needs to learn to act with restraint or face the consequences (he might get shot/killed by someone). This varries from state to state (some say (1) no duty to retreat only if you are in your own home "Castle Doctrine", (2) others extend it to anywhere in Public, and (3) others say you ALWAYS have a duty to retreat/escape even in your own home and of course variations in between all of these generic descriptions). Note most of this is codified by state legislatures although some states the law is through case law.

So X is GUILTY if he is in a state that says you must always retreat and/or is in a state that says you must retreat unless you are in your own home. However, X is NOT GUILTY if he is in a state that has a "stand your ground" law.

Now back to Martin/Zimmerman, the facts/evidence seem to suggest that Martin attacks Zimmerman (and also seems to suggest that Martin was clearly stronger/better fighter than Zimmerman - i.e. he was seen on top pounding Zimmerman while Zimmerman was screaming for help at least according to the only uninvolved eye witness) and brings him to the ground and breaks his nose and is pounding his head into the ground/pavement. Although, not as deadly as a gun or knife his life is in danger (i.e. if Zimmerman cannot escape/turn the tables his life/body is in serious danger). As such, Zimmerman had the right to use his gun to save himself.

Oddly, the media/liberals are making a HUGE deal about "stand your ground"/"castle doctrine" (which has been around in some form for CENTURIES under common law) despite the fact that there is ZERO evidence that suggests Zimmerman ever had a chance to escape AFTER Martin initiated the attack (again Zimmerman is free to follow Martin in public and would only have a duty to escape once Martin started to assault/batter him)


Obviously, everyone's life experience is different. I for example grew up in a very rural area of Kentucky. However, as a teenager I too was stopped by the police and teenagers for no good reason. Once a mall employee and cop stopped me b/c he thought I was a thief stealing CDs b/c I spent a long time in the store killing time waiting for my parents to finish shopping. However, I didn't respond by punching the employee/cop. Rather, I showed them I had nothing in my coat pockets (I had on one of those baggy Starter jackets that were popular in the 90s) and the employee/cop appologized and let me go.

To sort of flip your hypo, I'm a white adult now in Houston and I'm driving home late at night from the office and notice that a car appears to be following me. I stop at a stop light and I look at the car that was following me and it has what appears to be some shady/gang type characters that "are looking at me funny". That alone simply doesn't give me the right to take out a gun and start firing away. No I have to learn to restrain my fears and although I should be prepared to defend myself if necessary only do so when/if necessary (i.e. the shady/gang guys get out of their car with guns and start to attempt to either shoot me or steal my car)

[oweb26]

oodly enough everything you just said makes since. I will assume you know more about the law more than me.

Depending on which media outlet you watch martin was either commiting a crime or wasn't commiting a crime so I will not address that as I personally am not sure of what is/isnt true and that will more than likely fall in and around what TV station you watch the most.

I still believe that if someone is blatantly following me then I will assume they are out to do me harm in some fashion we shall call this a cultural difference because where I am from no one follows you just for the sake of following you. No law should restrain someone from protecting themselves but I fear the way most laws are set up that in order to protect yourself it might be entirely too late.

In short none of this political bickering or racial tension will bring the kid back, if the kid actually attacked the guy then a very unfortuanate situation happened, but what if the opposite happened. I think most of this revolves around how it seems like the police dept just swept it under the rug and kept going. Again I dunno as I really just heard about the story like two weeks ago ( really not even that long ago). I unplug alot from the internet and I don't watch the bias news stations.

[JeffHCross]

Depending on which media outlet you watch martin was either commiting a crime or wasn't commiting a crimeAt the end of the day, it seems like this story is more about the media than it is about the death of a young black man. And that's a sad commentary on the direction we're going.

But first, I read this article in the Miami Herald yesterday. I thought it laid out, quite clearly, what is "known" versus rumor, and the sources of this knowledge. Probably the best summary I've come across. Now, according to the comments there's some bias here, but I didn't personally perceive any. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/31/v-fullstory/2725442/what-is-known-what-isnt-about.html

Now, going back to the media. While trying to find that link again, I came across a conservative (judging by its web address/title) yet again taking the (implied 'liberal') media to task over their coverage of the story. The blog entry itself was a throw-away. But what was interesting to me was the comments. One of which claimed that the media had been exposed for jumping to conclusions, bias, etc. It's amazing how easily one side forgets that the other has done the exact same thing in the past. The past just goes out the window when the current "narrative" (as I like to call it) is at stake.

The media (on the whole) coverage of this story has been horrible. But I'm fairly confident that it's been horrible on both sides. And, I think, six months or year from now, that's going to be the real legacy of this. And that's a real tragedy.

[morsdraconis]

I will just say that I was watching a clearly "liberal" show that showed a clip of Zimmerman being escorted from a police cruiser (not sure of the exact timing, but I am to assume it was no less than a day after the incident, maybe less) and, from the video, there were absolutely NO signs of a broken nose, much less head wounds like media outlets would lead you to believe. Just saying.

[oweb26]

I will just say that I was watching a clearly "liberal" show that showed a clip of Zimmerman being escorted from a police cruiser (not sure of the exact timing, but I am to assume it was no less than a day after the incident, maybe less) and, from the video, there were absolutely NO signs of a broken nose, much less head wounds like media outlets would lead you to believe. Just saying.

I saw the exact same video but again it depends on the station and which you believe, now that I think about it I saw it on AOL video (which is always he huffington post, which is mostly liberal) so you never know but from said video the guy did look like he was just fine.

I will say this where are the pics of his injuries, if a guy beats his wife or girlfriend (see Rhianna and Chris Brown) they take all kids of pic of the wounds before they even let them clean themselves up why was this not done for him? I think these are the things that will/are getting everyone's panties in a wad 1+1 is equally like 10.

PS. If I have missed said wound pics my bad!

[CLW]

FYI - ABC News has obtained a photo of Zimmerman's head taken apparently immediately following the shooting at issue:




http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

[oweb26]

And with said pictures it could have been self defense. Every person has a right to defend themselves.

Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2

[CLW]

And with said pictures it could have been self defense. Every person has a right to defend themselves.

Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2

Yeah everything I have read/heard leads to a STRONG case of self-defense. Obviously, I don't know all of the evidence (perhaps something will change my mind at trial). However, IF the story is what anyone following the story should know this will end with an acquital of all charges. Fear the response to a CORRECT verdict will be race riots.

If the riots occur, the blood should lay on the hands of all of the race baiters and politicians who stoked the fires.

[oweb26]

Yeah everything I have read/heard leads to a STRONG case of self-defense. Obviously, I don't know all of the evidence (perhaps something will change my mind at trial). However, IF the story is what anyone following the story should know this will end with an acquital of all charges. Fear the response to a CORRECT verdict will be race riots.

If the riots occur, the blood should lay on the hands of all of the race baiters and politicians who stoked the fires.

Yeah as I stated earlier if it was self defense then a sad situation happened, but my only thing is why so long? IF these pics were released earlier then some of this could have been avoided.

[CLW]

Yeah as I stated earlier if it was self defense then a sad situation happened, but my only thing is why so long? IF these pics were released earlier then some of this could have been avoided.

The police/prosecution have ALWAYS (i would suspect) been aware of these photos. Perhaps, this evidence (along with the eye witness testimony) led to the initial decision not to arrest Zimmerman. Of course, Sharpton et al. show up and all hell breaks lose with people acting like a bunch of morons without knowing any (or very few) facts other than a black teenager was shot by a "white" (actually 1/2 white 1/2 hispanic) person. Generally, speaking the police/prosecution do NOT release evidence that can be used at trial to the media (nor should they). Cases are to be tried within our justice system.

It's a sad situation no matter what happened (Martin died). However, we do not (in theory) and SHOULD NOT try people via public opinion and in the media.

Sadly, African-American children are shot and killed all the time. Most of the time it is so called "black on black crime" and you never see the media or the race baitors make a big deal about very few (if any) of these cases.

The ONLY time you see such a big deal is when the liberal media, Sharpton, et al. can exploit a tragedy for political gain to further a cause.

Here the left wants to use Martin's death to attack gun rights and to paint "white people" (code word for Republicans) are all racists. Interestingly, very few people have reported that Zimmerman was/is a registered Democrat but lord knows it would have been the top story if he happened to be a registered Republican.

[oweb26]

The police/prosecution have ALWAYS (i would suspect) been aware of these photos. Perhaps, this evidence (along with the eye witness testimony) led to the initial decision not to arrest Zimmerman. Of course, Sharpton et al. show up and all hell breaks lose with people acting like a bunch of morons without knowing any (or very few) facts other than a black teenager was shot by a "white" (actually 1/2 white 1/2 hispanic) person. Generally, speaking the police/prosecution do NOT release evidence that can be used at trial to the media (nor should they). Cases are to be tried within our justice system.

It's a sad situation no matter what happened (Martin died). However, we do not (in theory) and SHOULD NOT try people via public opinion and in the media.

Sadly, African-American children are shot and killed all the time. Most of the time it is so called "black on black crime" and you never see the media or the race baitors make a big deal about very few (if any) of these cases.

The ONLY time you see such a big deal is when the liberal media, Sharpton, et al. can exploit a tragedy for political gain to further a cause.

Here the left wants to use Martin's death to attack gun rights and to paint "white people" (code word for Republicans) are all racists. Interestingly, very few people have reported that Zimmerman was/is a registered Democrat but lord knows it would have been the top story if he happened to be a registered Republican.


While I get everything you are saying, releasing said picture would not have any more effect than what has already transpired. I understand that they didn't want to release the photos to "sway" a juror but has everything that has happened not made "most common" people pick one side of the line. I also must cry a slight "horseshit" on that statement about releasing pictures, they do the shit all the time and now they want to follow the rules. Trials are won and lost in the court of public opinion all the time, and with things now days more and more of them will be. Its probably unfortunate but it is what it is.

I get what you are saying about "black on black crime" but there is a difference when you are following someone, and let be honest because they are black, and assume they are up to something and then subsequently the black kid gets shot. Like I said if someone is following me I am not going to wait for them to come out and present a threat to me I am going to assume that them following me is a perceived threat enough.

Maybe some of these things you have to black to truly understand, and as a general rule I don't trust the police one bit, I have seen too much stuff in my life to put anything past them,so maybe that's why it has escalated to this level in most people's eyes.


I don't personally believe in most of things Sharpton et al are doing now days but I CAN NOT discredit the things they have done for the black race as a whole especially during the civil rights movement so I understand why they are there though I don't agree with it.

That picture is good news for Zimmerman none the less he might get an acquittal, which if everything points that way he should.

I think "G" said it best that when everything settles that would be the underlined story how the news has turned this story toward whatever side they are on.

[CLW]

Yep the race riots are going to be off the charts when Zimmerman is acquited:

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/31/man-beaten-mob-critical-condition-ar-3659891/

[oweb26]

I dunno if I can say all that due to one asshole yelling something stupid.

Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2

[CLW]

I dunno if I can say all that due to one asshole yelling something stupid.

Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2

True but this also leads to my hypothesis/fears:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/23/Zimmerman-riots-Trayvon-Twitter
(http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/23/Zimmerman-riots-Trayvon-Twitter)
I would suspect further Twitter/Facebook/Internet research would produce more of the same with none of the so called "African-American leaders" making note of it in public and preemptively CONDEMNING it. Obama has almost certainly been briefed on it by now and to my knowledge noone from the White House has mentioned it.

[oweb26]

You do realize that at least four of those people were quoting a song right? Look I'm not saying that they will not riot but I don't think I can take the crediblity of a site like that , that pulls the tweets of people and take it as law.

If they riot just stay out the street they will get tired eventually. Ha ha ha. In all seriousness this is just turning towards ridiculousness, the case was handled with the upmost variety of shittyness and now whomever wants to act like all black people are going tobget violent.

I know one who's ass will be at home looking at encore westerns that day.

Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2

[DariusLock]

But you don't hear about shit like this...

A bunch of black teens beat a white couple. (http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/100-blacks-beat-white-couple-media-buries-attack/)

They even worked for the paper that refused to report it.



“I feel for the white man who got beat up at the light,” wrote one person.

“I don’t,” wrote another, indicating laughter. “(do it for trayvon martin)”

[CLW]

Zimmerman voluntarily passed a lie detector test the day after shooting Martin.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/george-zimmerman-lie-detector-421395

[CLW]

Martin's mother in early stages of suing the HOA. :fp:

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Martin-s-mother-seeks-money-from-HOA-state-fund-3766408.php (http://www.chron.com/news/article/Martin-s-mother-seeks-money-from-HOA-state-fund-3766408.php)

USUALLY the Plaintiff's lawyer is at least smart enough to allow the criminal process to finish before filing a civil case (see OJ). However, I've been shall we say "unimpressed" with the Martin's "family lawyer" the times I have seen him on the tube.

[SmoothPancakes]

Nothing but typical money grabbing bullshit. I hate this fucking country.

[skipwondah33]

No different than everyone else who files civil suits moreso than criminal ones nearly

So this should have been expected.

[Tarhead10]

Nothing but typical money grabbing bullshit. I hate this fucking country.

:clap:....absolutely

[psusnoop]

Nothing but typical money grabbing bullshit. I hate this fucking country.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVrPIabWcp0&feature=related


:smh:

[SmoothPancakes]

Exactly snoop. Nothing but an endless line of fucking dumbasses who do stupid shit to themselves on their own because they're a bunch of fucking dumbasses and all they can think of is ways to get a quick and easy payday. Someone in Congress needs to grow the fucking balls and make filing frivolous lawsuits a felony or misdemeanor and levy fines for it. I guarantee these dumbfuck lawsuits would plummet if there was a chance you'd get hit with a $25,000 or $50,000 fine for filing a bullshit lawsuit and tying up the court system because you're a dumbass.

[psusnoop]

Exactly snoop. Nothing but an endless line of fucking dumbasses who do stupid shit to themselves on their own because they're a bunch of fucking dumbasses and all they can think of is ways to get a quick and easy payday. Someone in Congress needs to grow the fucking balls and make filing frivolous lawsuits a felony or misdemeanor and levy fines for it. I guarantee these dumbfuck lawsuits would plummet if there was a chance you'd get hit with a $25,000 or $50,000 fine for filing a bullshit lawsuit and tying up the court system because you're a dumbass.


:clap:

But please wait because I need to go order a hot coffee from somewhere and sue because it was hot. I'll let you know when you can start writing congress to get these great ideas in motion. Hell once I get paid, I may even help front you some cash :D:D

[skipwondah33]

:clap:

But please wait because I need to go order a hot coffee from somewhere and sue because it was hot. I'll let you know when you can start writing congress to get these great ideas in motion. Hell once I get paid, I may even help front you some cash :D:DMcDonald's made me fat

[psusnoop]

McDonald's made me fat


Here is your cash

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTElmump_9UeOpbVL_NtLW9FCcxUHm6P U74LYT7uk58DyFN3uPY

Please accept our sincerest apologizes and take this

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkgF8NzGNnJPICT14x1wfn0KUmfG2jV gbTviaT4Ie4nN3lroAd

[CLW]

This trial is an absolute JOKE. After the "star" witness admitted to perjury multiple times on the stand an eye witness now testifies he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman was screaming for help.

If this does not end an acquittal I'll be STUNNED (it would be worse than the OJ verdict). Get ready for the idiotic race riots.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57591520-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-neighbor-testifies-trayvon-martin-was-straddling-zimmerman-moments-before-fatal-gunshot/

[AustinWolv]

Been following the liveblogging from the trial by HLN.
While the witness does says he thinks Zimmerman was on bottom, he stated but could not confirm that Zimmerman was the one screaming for help, but *thought* that was case.
The other key thing to note is that the responding officer said Zimmerman's clothes had grass all over the back and were substantially wetter than the front of his clothes.

[CLW]

Been following the liveblogging from the trial by HLN.
While the witness does says he thinks Zimmerman was on bottom, he stated but could not confirm that Zimmerman was the one screaming for help, but *thought* that was case.
The other key thing to note is that the responding officer said Zimmerman's clothes had grass all over the back and were substantially wetter than the front of his clothes.

That's fair about the "thought" "thinks". I didn't see the live testimony but the impression given is that the neighbor today came across as MUCH MORE credible than the "star" who mumbled/lied through two days of testimony. From what I read he was pretty certain re: the colors of clothes he saw and surely it has come in now that Martin was wearing dark colors and Zimmerman was wearing red/bright colors (if I recall correctly from photos)

If witness says I think I saw Martin on top but I know the guy wearing dark clothes was on top (and its proven Martin was wearing dark hoodie) thats about as good as it gets testimony wise as witnesses are always at least somewhat scared/hesitant to be acting like God saying "I am 10000000000000% certain of something" -- it must be the fear of lawyers)

The jury can infer / defense can argue how likely is it that Martin would scream for help while on top of someone during a fight (its not exactly a weak position to be in during a fight)

Bottom line Martin wouldn't even win a civil case at this point (with a reasonable jury) much less the higher standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt". If Zimmerman gets convicted for this its nothing more than a sympathy vote to prevent race riots or an absolutely STUPID jury pool.

There is simply a logical reason why Zimmerman wasn't charged before the Political Pressure -- there is no case. Zimmerman's life has been ruined b/c of a bunch of race baiters that were simply looking for another pay day.

[AustinWolv]

CLW, agree with your overall point, just wanted to clarify it wasn't cut and dry.

The officer's testimony seemed even more favorable to Zimmerman than what the neighbor was saying, which is saying a lot.

So far, I don't see anything that the prosecution has except for a sketchy cellphone witness, who has since been deleting tweets that cast further doubt on her character, at least in the eyes of adults.

[CLW]

CLW, agree with your overall point, just wanted to clarify it wasn't cut and dry.

The officer's testimony seemed even more favorable to Zimmerman than what the neighbor was saying, which is saying a lot.

So far, I don't see anything that the prosecution has except for a sketchy cellphone witness, who has since been deleting tweets that cast further doubt on her character, at least in the eyes of adults.

Yeah I saw Smoking gun has most/all of those tweets. Did any of that come up get into evidence? If not, the defense attorney is an embarrassment. I would have brought it ALL up -- especially anything viewed as racist or she wasn't serious about her testimony etc....

Its simply worse to delete a post b/c not only will the deletion come in but it shows you KNOW it looks bad on you and were trying to hide it from the jury.

You should NEVER say anything stupid on the internet that could come back and bite you. But you should NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER........ delete it once you posted it. Better to leave it out there than look like you are trying to destroy evidence and hide it.

[AustinWolv]

I missed part of her testimony, but didn't really see character attack or defense either way by the attorneys. Haven't studied the opinions on that, but I would bet neither wanted to get accused of racial stuff.

The stuff I was reading on the tweets was blasting the prosecution or whoever who may have been in her camp for not taking that stuff down ages ago versus it being deleted over the past couple days.

[bdoughty]

So far, I don't see anything that the prosecution has except for a sketchy cellphone witness, who has since been deleting tweets that cast further doubt on her character, at least in the eyes of adults.

Let's see... she lied under oath, deletes tweets, thinks being called a crazy cracker is not racist and can't read a letter she wrote. Seeing her testimony and looking at her tweets made cringe. Yet Time, CNN and all the other left leaning media outlets still found a way to defend her.

This was one of the worst (http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/28/rachel-jeantel-explained-linguistically/).

[AustinWolv]

bdoughty, you don't think I'm championing the prosecution, do you? Read it again, as I'm saying that the prosecution has brought NOTHING forward yet that is damning of Zimmerman and their "star witness" so far is exactly what you said.......pretty damn suspect and regardless of whether she speaks English, Black English as that linked article states, British English, or Klingon, her story is unorganized and shifts around. Compare her testimony to that of the other witnesses and it is a mess. The testimony from the responding officers for example is very clear (as you'd hope they'd be given their role to note details), as are some of the neighbors.

[bdoughty]

bdoughty, you don't think I'm championing the prosecution, do you?

Not at all, I was agreeing with you and listing some of the things she did that were suspect.

[AustinWolv]

Ah ok, I couldn't tell. :)

[CLW]

State’s Witnesses in Zimmerman Trial Put the Prosecution on the Defensive
I think all of the "State's" Witnesses other than their "star" have basically made their "case" Swiss cheese. If Zimmerman is convicted it will truly be a sad day. I cannot recall a case this WEAK going to trial.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/us/prosecutors-in-zimmerman-trial-ask-jury-to-disregard-comments.html?partner=MYWAY&ei=5065

[CLW]

Police Officer Testifies that Martin's father initially said the screams heard on 911 call were NOT Trayvon's during Police's investigation.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/zimmerman-trial-defense-continue-its-case

[AustinWolv]

Defense is calling a witness on Tues to speak about the toxicology report, which may be interesting.

Police also commented today that how audio was presented to the family wasn't in line with how investigation should have been run.

[AustinWolv]

Prosecution is reaching and trying to tag on lesser charges in order to get something to stick.

Wouldn't it be fair of the DOJ to also apply "technical expertise and help" (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/10/doj-helped-facilitate-anti-zimmerman-protests-flor/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS) to Zimmerman as well then?

Does DOJ send the CRS every time an African-American teen is shot in Chicago?

According to the documents, from March 25 to March 27, CRS spent $674.14 upon being “deployed to Sanford, Fla., to work marches, demonstrations, and rallies related to the shooting and death of an African-American teen by a neighborhood watch captain.”

[souljahbill]

They should've just went with manslaughter in the first place. Prosecution blew it. Without smaller charges, Zimmerman walks. If anyone owns a shop in Sanford, better prepare to hire extra security.

[AustinWolv]

Their lack of an actual case, rather than the media show that brought it to trial, blew it as much as anything.

[CLW]

There is NO manslaughter here. The Prosecution UTTERLY FAILED to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't self-defense. The ONLY evidence produced at trial was that Martin was on top of Zimmerman "ground and pound" style.

The ONLY chance for a conviction is if the jury feels the political pressure as well for a compromise verdict. If I were a betting mad I'd bet on a hung jury or an acquittal.

[AustinWolv]

The ONLY chance for a conviction is if the jury feels the political pressure as well for a compromise verdict. If I were a betting mad I'd bet on a hung jury or an acquittal.
Prosecution is playing to "common sense" and their emotion in the closing, i.e. failure to have the factual evidence as proof.

[oweb26]

There is NO manslaughter here. The Prosecution UTTERLY FAILED to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't self-defense. The ONLY evidence produced at trial was that Martin was on top of Zimmerman "ground and pound" style.

The ONLY chance for a conviction is if the jury feels the political pressure as well for a compromise verdict. If I were a betting mad I'd bet on a hung jury or an acquittal.

Yeah I haven't really been following the trial but even from the highlights I have heard at different places...this guy should walk if we are talking about strictly a "legal issue" , if the politics or any other outside pressure comes into play then who the hell knows what they will choose.

When do they decide the verdict or I should say how long do they have to decide the verdict? Not really familiar how these things work, it always happens in one hour on TV. :D

[SmoothPancakes]

Yeah, I've never really studied up much on the deliberation phase. I know they get plenty of time, some deliberations have stretched into days, nearly weeks in the past before the jury comes back with a decision. But eventually there reaches a point where if a hung jury is going to happen, the jury will know it and know there is no way to avoid it. I don't know if there is really an actual time limit before a jury is considered hung, may depend on each individual judge if there's no judicial standard.

[CLW]

Yeah I haven't really been following the trial but even from the highlights I have heard at different places...this guy should walk if we are talking about strictly a "legal issue" , if the politics or any other outside pressure comes into play then who the hell knows what they will choose.

When do they decide the verdict or I should say how long do they have to decide the verdict? Not really familiar how these things work, it always happens in one hour on TV. :D


Yeah, I've never really studied up much on the deliberation phase. I know they get plenty of time, some deliberations have stretched into days, nearly weeks in the past before the jury comes back with a decision. But eventually there reaches a point where if a hung jury is going to happen, the jury will know it and know there is no way to avoid it. I don't know if there is really an actual time limit before a jury is considered hung, may depend on each individual judge if there's no judicial standard.

Entirely up to the jury/judge. The jury can deliberate for as long as they like (the judge may/will from time to time ask them if they are close have reached a verdict and occasionally will further instruct the jury if they have questions). The judge can also make them deliberate longer if they are deadlocked. However, if they reach a unanimous verdict in 5 minutes I don't think there is much a judge can do. That being said, usually the paperwork alone takes quite a bit of time to read/fill out especially if you don't have a foreman who is aware of legalese.

In FL the jury has to be unanimous I believe but there are only 6 jurors (some states don't require unanimous verdicts if its 12 jurors and states are all over the place on the # of jurors - those are an interesting Constitutional Issues with juries (1) do they have to be unanimous and (2) do they have to be 12.)

If memory serves I believe SCOTUS has said 6 is the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM to survive a Constitutional challenge under the 6th/14th Amendments.

[CLW]

BTW - NEVER heard the term "White-Hispanic" until this case due to the media's obsession of trying to make it "whitey taking a black kid out" case.

[oweb26]

BTW - NEVER heard the term "White-Hispanic" until this case due to the media's obsession of trying to make it "whitey taking a black kid out" case.

LOL me either.....normally the white portion gets simply ignored.

[AustinWolv]

Made for TV.

[CLW]

LOL me either.....normally the white portion gets simply ignored.

Sort of like the "White-African-American" in the White House. Thats allot of "-" :nod:

[oweb26]

Sort of like the "White-African-American" in the White House. Thats allot of "-" :nod:

The nation like to pride itself on being past alot of things but in reality its not, most Americans believe in the one drop rule even if they don't know it exist.

We can get scientific on how the white gene always gets overpowered but that might be a little much...lol

[SCClassof93]

The nation like to pride itself on being past alot of things but in reality its not, most Americans believe in the one drop rule even if they don't know it exist.

We can get scientific on how the white gene always gets overpowered but that might be a little much...lol

If that is the case......well I think I will let that go.....

[Stan HAMsen]

BTW - NEVER heard the term "White-Hispanic" until this case due to the media's obsession of trying to make it "whitey taking a black kid out" case.

I'm pretty sure I remember "white (non-Hispanic)" being an ethnic classification on surveys and standardized tests.

[AustinWolv]

Stan, seen that also.

[oweb26]

I'm pretty sure I remember "white (non-Hispanic)" being an ethnic classification on surveys and standardized tests.

Lol you are correct sir...now that you mention it.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk HD

[SmoothPancakes]

And let the riots begin.

Justice actually prevailed for a change, Zimmerman found not guilty by the jury.

[ram29jackson]

not guilty

[skipwondah33]

I know what I can do in the state of Florida now should i ever need to when I visit that's good to know

[SmoothPancakes]

Well, at least Florida juries are consistent. If they had found Casey Anthony not guilty but found George Zimmerman guilty, talk about a clusterfuck of justice.

[CLW]

GLAD the jury didn't buy the crap. Shoot the rioters if/when they happen. Zimmerman should SUE THE HELL out of the prosecutor and gov. and dept of justice for malicious prosecution etc.....

Feel bad for the guy NO WAY IN HELL should he have EVER been charged with anything.

[baseballplyrmvp]

this was the right to "stand your ground" lawsuit, correct? sorry, i hate watching the news.

[CLW]

this was the right to "stand your ground" lawsuit, correct? sorry, i hate watching the news.

NOPE! stand your ground statute NOT at issue. self-defense. slightly different

[ram29jackson]

GLAD the jury didn't buy the crap. Shoot the rioters if/when they happen. Zimmerman should SUE THE HELL out of the prosecutor and gov. and dept of justice for malicious prosecution etc.....

Feel bad for the guy NO WAY IN HELL should he have EVER been charged with anything.

based on what ? it all sounds very inconclusive

[CLW]

lmao that people were SHOCKED at the verdict. this was the WEAKEST prosecution i have EVER seen. 95% of the prosecution's witness proved the defense's case.

[CLW]

based on what ? it all sounds very inconclusive

you can sue a prosecutor/government official if they charge you criminally with no basis in law/fact to do so. i'd sue the living hell out of everyone involved

[CLW]

just reading twitter is HILARIOUS. it NEVER ceases to amaze me how far this country has fallen in my short lifetime. America has NEVER been DUMBER or more IRRATIONAL than they are now. these people have NO CONCEPT of the rule of law and they just spout the nonsense they hear from the race baiters.

[SmoothPancakes]

GLAD the jury didn't buy the crap. Shoot the rioters if/when they happen. Zimmerman should SUE THE HELL out of the prosecutor and gov. and dept of justice for malicious prosecution etc.....

Feel bad for the guy NO WAY IN HELL should he have EVER been charged with anything.

Yeah, jury definitely made the right call. The prosecution never came even remotely close to proving 2nd-degree murder. And then that 11th hour bullshit with the child abuse shit, and of asking the judge to allow the jury to consider manslaughter. If the Prosecutor wanted the jury to consider manslaughter, they should have fucking charged him with it from day one instead of trying to slip it in at the very last moment of the trial to try and cover their asses. I hate that allowing juries to consider a lesser charge bullshit. The only charges that should be allowed to be considered are those that were filed at the start of the trial.

Ultimately, those 6 women were smart and justice by law prevailed. The masses may not feel justice prevailed, but their sense of justice is skewed by emotion. True justice, justice dictated by law, was delivered tonight.

And yeah, that brings up the question, does Zimmerman have any options in regards to lawsuits and whatnot? I mean his life has been utterly trashed for the last year and a half, he spent however much time in sitting in jail, whatever job he had before has long since been lost, his finances have no doubt been clusterfucked by the costs of everything the last year and a half (even considering the defense fund donations). There's got to be some compensation for all the shit he went through.

[ram29jackson]

just reading twitter is HILARIOUS. it NEVER ceases to amaze me how far this country has fallen in my short lifetime. America has NEVER been DUMBER or more IRRATIONAL than they are now. these people have NO CONCEPT of the rule of law and they just spout the nonsense they hear from the race baiters.

its the same crowd that goes on 4th down all game long

[CLW]

Yeah, jury definitely made the right call. The prosecution never came even remotely close to proving 2nd-degree murder. And then that 11th hour bullshit with the child abuse shit, and of asking the judge to allow the jury to consider manslaughter. If the Prosecutor wanted the jury to consider manslaughter, they should have fucking charged him with it from day one instead of trying to slip it in at the very last moment of the trial to try and cover their asses. I hate that allowing juries to consider a lesser charge bullshit. The only charges that should be allowed to be considered are those that were filed at the start of the trial.

Ultimately, those 6 women were smart and justice by law prevailed. The masses may not feel justice prevailed, but their sense of justice is skewed by emotion. True justice, justice dictated by law, was delivered tonight.

And yeah, that brings up the question, does Zimmerman have any options in regards to lawsuits and whatnot? I mean his life has been utterly trashed for the last year and a half, he spent however much time in sitting in jail, whatever job he had before has long since been lost, his finances have no doubt been clusterfucked by the costs of everything the last year and a half (even considering the defense fund donations). There's got to be some compensation for all the shit he went through.

most likely he would sue and it would settle out of court quickly. i'd sue the Obama Admi (for funding the protest against him); the Governor (Republican) that appointed the special prosecutor after the initial (correct) refusal of charges and the special prosecutor.

i'd also sue all the race baiters for defmation/libel/slander etc....

[CLW]

lmao this is just hilarious that people are either (1) TRULY stunned at the verdict; (2) FEIGNING being stunned - saying these women are racists

its funny yet sad America has ZERO hope

[CLW]

lmao dude prosecutor is PISSED (or at least pretending to be pissed). i'd make sure he was the lead defendant in my lawsuit on behalf of zimmerman. :nod:

[CLW]

LMFAO media trying to spin this to take on "stand your ground" laws. that's what the liberals are going to do try to use a dead 17 year old (black) kid to push their agenda now.

[CLW]

martin parents (MOST LIKELY) were not there for the verdict b/c they were TOLD by the prosecutor they had no shot at a verdict.

[SmoothPancakes]

most likely he would sue and it would settle out of court quickly. i'd sue the Obama Admi (for funding the protest against him); the Governor (Republican) that appointed the special prosecutor after the initial (correct) refusal of charges and the special prosecutor.

i'd also sue all the race baiters for defmation/libel/slander etc....

Yeah, hopefully he ends up suing or getting some compensation, because this whole case and trial have been shit. He's been dragged through the mud for over a year by the media and public, all based on personal feelings, the whole race shit, etc. He definitely deserves something now after all this and being found not guilty.


lmao this is just hilarious that people are either (1) TRULY stunned at the verdict; (2) FEIGNING being stunned - saying these women are racists

its funny yet sad America has ZERO hope

I don't know what the hell they're stunned at. The writing has been on the wall the entire trial. All the way up to the last couple days, it was becoming increasingly clear he was going to be not guilty since the prosecution never came close to 2nd degree murder. Things got a little muddier when the prosecution got the bullshit manslaughter consideration slipped in, but thankfully the jury was fooled and didn't fall for the bait of "well, he's not guilty of 2nd degree murder, but lets split it down the middle and convict him on manslaughter so the public gets their scapegoat and prevent inevitable riots". A 2nd degree murder conviction has never had a hope of being made since the opening week of the trial. Manslaughter gave the jury an out, but they still held true to justice and delivered not guilty. I applaud those 6 women.


lmao dude prosecutor is PISSED (or at least pretending to be pissed). i'd make sure he was the lead defendant in my lawsuit on behalf of zimmerman. :nod:

Yeah, that whole interview with those three was just awkward. The prosecutor was still trying to make his case to the public and still dragging Zimmerman through the mud, even after a not guilty verdict. I definitely hope Zimmerman goes after him first. Some of the shit he threw out during the trial and closing arguments were just pathetic. He without a doubt deserves to be the #1 name on a lawsuit.

[CLW]

IMHO lawyers should NEVER do press conferences before/during/after cases. the jury has spoken everything that needed to have been said should have been said in the court room.

[CLW]

lol death threats against Zimmerman's lawyer's family

[CLW]

good lord the people I FOLLOW on twitter (for video game knowledge) and respect as generally coming across at intelligent are really just EMBARRASSING themselves tonight. i called this case back at the beginning. there was simply no case. IT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE.

then people claiming judge was racist (judge actually favored the prosecution - unfairly so imho as Martin's thug lyfe past should have come in); claiming the 6 women jurors are racists and its the worst thing since slavery.

[bdoughty]

This has to be some sort of record for most post in a row by a user in under 15 minutes. JB is probably jealous.

let the rioting begin.

[SmoothPancakes]

lol death threats against Zimmerman's lawyer's family

Some people really are pathetic. That's just sad.

And Mark O'Mara brings up a good point. If Zimmerman had just a random public defense lawyers, he never would have stood a chance with the bullshit the prosecution kept doing or attempting to do from the discovery phase all the way through the closing arguments. Thank god Zimmerman got O'Mara and Don West for his lawyers and they were ready for the prosecutors tactics.

[CLW]

This has to be some sort of record for most post in a row by a user in under 15 minutes. JB is probably jealous.

let the rioting beging.

working on it. this case PISSED ME OFF.

hey a question about seeking sanctions and civil lawsuit -- state might have to pay the defense costs :nod: lmao didn't rule out zimmerman suing people. :nod:

[CLW]

Some people really are pathetic. That's just sad.

And Mark O'Mara brings up a good point. If Zimmerman had just a random public defense lawyers, he never would have stood a chance with the bullshit the prosecution kept doing or attempting to do from the discovery phase all the way through the closing arguments. Thank god Zimmerman got O'Mara and Don West for his lawyers and they were ready for the prosecutors tactics.

actually I wasn't that impressed with O'Mara/West. Better than Public Defenders? ABSOLUTELY (most of those people are either whackos or barely graduated lawschool)

[CLW]

lmao zimmerman's lawyers are really taking shots at the judge/prosecution

[SmoothPancakes]

good lord the people I FOLLOW on twitter (for video game knowledge) and respect as generally coming across at intelligent are really just EMBARRASSING themselves tonight. i called this case back at the beginning. there was simply no case. IT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE.

then people claiming judge was racist (judge actually favored the prosecution - unfairly so imho as Martin's thug lyfe past should have come in); claiming the 6 women jurors are racists and its the worst thing since slavery.

Yeah, anyone claiming the judge was racist is a fucking idiot. That judge was so goddamn pro-prosecution, it was a joke. She was setting the entire trial up for instant appeal if he was found guilty. She forbid introduction of Martin's MMA training, that he had marijuana in his system, that he had been suspended from school THAT day for fighting. It was turning into a fucking joke. No wonder Don West was constantly sparring with her, because her ass kept handing shit left and right to the prosecution and telling the defense to shut up and denying their stuff.

[SmoothPancakes]

working on it. this case PISSED ME OFF.

hey a question about seeking sanctions and civil lawsuit -- state might have to pay the defense costs :nod: lmao didn't rule out zimmerman suing people. :nod:

State paying the defense costs should be the absolutely minimum and a guarantee. That's one thing I've always felt, if the state takes you to trial on something and you get found not guilty, the state should then pay the defense costs. It's just like lawsuits, you hear all the time about people having to pay defense costs for others when they lose in court in lawsuits. States should starting being forced to pay all defense costs of cases where the defendant is found not guilty.


actually I wasn't that impressed with O'Mara/West. Better than Public Defenders? ABSOLUTELY (most of those people are either whackos or barely graduated lawschool)

True. Some of the way they handled things were boneheaded, and that knock knock joke was just stupid. But ultimately, they got the job done and were ready to fight and counter the prosecution every step of the way. They definitely could have handled the case better, but they won and that's the important thing. Makes you think about the poor bastards all over this country being represented by Joe Schmoe public defender, leaving those poor bastards without a hope of a fighting chance at trials.


lmao zimmerman's lawyers are really taking shots at the judge/prosecution

As they should be. :D The judge and prosecution were some of the worst and most pathetic I have ever seen in a trial.

[bdoughty]

Yeah, anyone claiming the judge was racist is a fucking idiot. That judge was so goddamn pro-prosecution, it was a joke. She was setting the entire trial up for instant appeal if he was found guilty. She forbid introduction of Martin's MMA training, that he had marijuana in his system, that he had been suspended from school THAT day for fighting. It was turning into a fucking joke. No wonder Don West was constantly sparring with her, because her ass kept handing shit left and right to the prosecution and telling the defense to shut up and denying their stuff.

Not to mention a lifelong Democrat.

She should be facing judicial misconduct for this video alone.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UgDuu6i8MtE#at=56

You do not have to testify, are you going to? You do not have to testify, are you going to? You hear that jury. ;);)

[CLW]

Not to mention a lifelong Democrat.

yep with likely dreams of making the federal bench and as a dem you better back Martin ruling in favor of "him" whenever possible. however, even her incorrect rulings weren't enough to help the prosecution as the case was just WEAK.

[SmoothPancakes]

Not to mention a lifelong Democrat.

:D

Yeah, after this trial, whatever committee or process they have for judges in Florida, she needs to be looked into. I respect the bench, I respect the position, but she was a piece of work. A lot of judges I've seen stay grounded pretty well in their position, but she took the term "god of her courtroom" to heart when it came to decisions and dialogue with the defense. It was pathetic all trial long by her.

[CLW]

And it begins....?

356245521465221123

[CLW]

Not to mention a lifelong Democrat.

She should be face judicial misconduct for this video alone.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UgDuu6i8MtE#at=56

You do not have to testify, you do not have to testify... You hear that jury, he does not have to testify. ;);)

THAT WAS STUPID BUT IN FAIRNESS I BELIEVE THAT WAS NOT IN FRONT OF THE JURY. if it was she should be REMOVED FROM THE BENCH AND LOSE HER LICENSE TO PRACTICE LAW.

[SmoothPancakes]

You knew it would start at some point. I'm surprised news reports of riots in Sanford and elsewhere in Florida haven't started yet.

[CLW]

lol the DUMBEST lawyers involved Martin's family lawyers. they have been AWFUL in the appearances i have seen through the media.

[SmoothPancakes]

Not to mention a lifelong Democrat.

She should be face judicial misconduct for this video alone.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UgDuu6i8MtE#at=56

You do not have to testify, are you going to? You do not have to testify, are you going to? You hear that jury. ;);)

Yep. That video is just a fraction of the shit that went on with her this trial. It was ridiculous how pro-prosecution she was in her rulings and how much she kept trying to stick it to the defense. Like I said, she apparently gets off on acting like god up there. Definitely should be investigated by whatever commission they have there. There were a couple things that could be enough to throw her ass off the bench.

[CLW]

Yep. That video is just a fraction of the shit that went on with her this trial. It was ridiculous how pro-prosecution she was in her rulings and how much she kept trying to stick it to the defense. Like I said, she apparently gets off on acting like god up there. Definitely should be investigated by whatever commission they have there. There were a couple things that could be enough to throw her ass off the bench.

me thinks Obama Admin put pressure on her but good luck proving that. but me thinks my case be stronger than the prosecution's case. :nod:

[ram29jackson]

THAT WAS STUPID BUT IN FAIRNESS I BELIEVE THAT WAS NOT IN FRONT OF THE JURY. if it was she should be REMOVED FROM THE BENCH AND LOSE HER LICENSE TO PRACTICE LAW.

What is it that was done wrong ? ?

[CLW]

What is it that was done wrong ? ?

I have NEVER seen a judge do that to a criminal defendant EVER. It it was done in front of the jury the purpose was clearly to try to violate Zimmerman's "right to remain silent" and give the jury the impression that refusing to testify b/c he is guilty (which you are NOT allowed to argue/infer to the jury).

It was UNPROFESSIONAL at best and GROUNDS FOR DISBARMENT at worst (depending on FL law). I'd be STUNNED if that happens with any regularity in FL b/c I have NEVER heard of it being done ANYWHERE in a criminal case.

[SmoothPancakes]

:fp: This black guy, not sure what his status or affiliation with the Martin family or the case is, but he's talking about a tweet received by a Martin Luther King daughter earlier this morning, talking about today being the defining moment in her father's dream.

That's the problem with how fucked up this case has been. African-Americans are more focuses on getting justice for Trayvon through whatever means necessary, even if it means sending a man to jail for the hell of it, whereas everyone else is interested in justice as dictated by law. Zimmerman being found not guilty may not be what they wanted, but if they truly give even the slightest fuck about justice and law in this country, they'll recognize that this was the proper verdict for the case. Not guilty may not be the socially popular verdict, but it was legally the correct verdict and that ultimately is what matters!

[CLW]

ZIMMERMAN is not "white" -- the media really just cannot give this up.

IF Zimmerman is "white" then we have NEVER had a "black" President.

[CLW]

go to Chicago race baiters and complain about all the black kids getting shot nearly 70 of them in a weekend alone not too long ago. yeah you don't care b/c they are getting shot by other black kids. :smh:

[bdoughty]

White Guilt. The crime of being born white.

This is why I hate Neogaf, it's uber-left hive mindset makes Bill Mahr look like a conservative in comparison. (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=622561)

Found at the end of that thread.

http://i.imgur.com/lx2r7d0.jpg


:fp:

[SmoothPancakes]

White Guilt. The crime of being born white.

This is why I hate Neogaf, it's uber-left hive mindset makes Bill Mahr look like a conservative in comparison. (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=622561)

Found at the end of that thread.

http://i.imgur.com/lx2r7d0.jpg


:fp:

:fp: You're pissed about a FAIR legal verdict, so you're threatening to get justice for a murder by murdering someone else. How fucking stupid can you be?

[CLW]

White Guilt. The crime of being born white.

This is why I hate Neogaf, it's uber-left hive mindset makes Bill Mahr look like a conservative in comparison. (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=622561)

You know we joke around allot here but I'm glad that here at the TGT most of us can have a conversation fairly civilly. The posts here are usually logical and its usually a disagreement on fundamental premises. But the stupidity of America is only going to get worse as people refuse to read and educate themselves and think for themselves.

[ram29jackson]

ZIMMERMAN is not "white" -- the media really just cannot give this up.

IF Zimmerman is "white" then we have NEVER had a "black" President.

well...he/the Pres. is mixed :D

[CLW]

well...he/the Pres. is mixed :D

nope Zimmerman is 1/2 white (mother) and the media calls him white

Obama is 1/2 white (mother) and the media calls him black

color me confused

[CLW]

lol gonna protest a FINAL verdict --- apparently the morons have never heard of something called Double Jeopardy.

it's OVER Zimmerman is a free man you cannot have an election to re-charge him or have the Gov. just throw him into jail.

[PDOGEMP 8]

The Media is the Biggest Promoters of Race Baiting on the Planet

[SmoothPancakes]

ZIMMERMAN is not "white" -- the media really just cannot give this up.

IF Zimmerman is "white" then we have NEVER had a "black" President.

That is really starting to get on my fucking nerves. Lets settle it! Pay attention class (and all you fucking idiots in the rest of the country).

WHITE

http://figsandfodder.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/nerdy-white-guy1.jpg


HISPANIC

http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/thumbnail_photos/2013/July/george-zimmerman.jpg


What the fuck is so difficult to understand? If I saw George Zimmerman on the street and had to split-second identify him by skin, Hispanic (and ONLY Hispanic) instantly jumps to the top of the list.

[SmoothPancakes]

You know we joke around allot here but I'm glad that here at the TGT most of us can have a conversation fairly civilly. The posts here are usually logical and its usually a disagreement on fundamental premises. But the stupidity of America is only going to get worse as people refuse to read and educate themselves and think for themselves.

Yep. You and myself have certainly been no strangers to sparring on topics (especially political), but guilty or not guilty, other than the idiot judge, the dumbasses on the prosecution team and the dumbasses in the general public that are looking at this only from a racial standpoint of "justice system let whitey off with murder", this has been quite an enlightening conversation on the various aspects of trials and the justice system.

[CLW]

Yep. You and myself have certainly been no strangers to sparring on topics (especially political), but guilty or not guilty, other than the idiot judge, the dumbasses on the prosecution team and the dumbasses in the general public that are looking at this only from a racial standpoint of "justice system let whitey off with murder", this has been quite an enlightening conversation on the various aspects of trials and the justice system.

Just remember next-time there is a high profile legal case to just accept my ruling from the beginning. :nod:

[CLW]

lmao i forgot about the evidence the prosecution did not turn over to the defense. that is grounds for HEAVY SANCTIONS (and possibly DISBARMENT)

and they fired the whistle blower

he gonna sue someone too :nod:

[bdoughty]

Just remember next-time there is a high profile legal case to just accept my ruling from the beginning. :nod:

http://officeforward.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/87sOG.gif

[CLW]

msnbc going with the anti-gun get rid of self-defense law. stand your ground laws are NOTHING more than legislatures CODIFYING -- PRIOR CASE LAW

case law was split and so states through the legislative process can chose what kind of "stand your ground" standard they want.

HOWEVER, STAND YOUR GROUND WAS NOT (cannot emphasize enough) ---- NOT @ ISSUE IN THIS CASE B/C THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE ZIMMERMAN HAD A CHANCE TO RETREAT. "STAND YOUR GROUND" ONLY COMES INTO PLAY IF AND ONLY IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO RETREAT AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN ATTACKED.

hard to retreat when you are lying on the ground getting beating ground and pound style.

[CLW]

LMFAO Black Panters are now all about "peaceful" expression?

[CLW]

THESE IDIOTS don't get it: YES ZIMMERMAN DID NOT OBEY 911 OPERATOR.


HOWEVER THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CRIMINAL CHARGES. There is no Crime for FAILING TO OBEY A 911 OPERATOR. Where do these idiots get this crap? :smh:

[bdoughty]

LMFAO Black Panters are now all about "peaceful" expression?

They were until Forrest got a burr up his ass when Jenny got slapped.

I am sure there will be numerous comedic responses from Hollywood tomorrow. Enough coverage for me, off to play some games. If you need some rioting action, check out the news in Belfast. The Irish have been know to throw a firebomb or two.

[CLW]

Rev. Sharpton upset he was called out for what he is a race baiter

[SmoothPancakes]

Just remember next-time there is a high profile legal case to just accept my ruling from the beginning. :nod:

:D Yeah, you called this one from the beginning. If the prosecution had somehow managed to prove their case better, maybe the jury would have gotten him on manslaughter (I still say and believe if they wanted manslaughter considered by the jury, the fuckers should have filed it before the goddamn trial), but yeah, now after the trial, not guilty was the right and only way to go. If people is this nation can't handle it and get past their emotions and take off the "whitey hates blacks"-colored glasses and realize that justice WAS served tonight by a legally correct verdict, then that's their problem.


lmao i forgot about the evidence the prosecution did not turn over to the defense. that is grounds for HEAVY SANCTIONS (and possibly DISBARMENT)

and they fired the whistle blower

he gonna sue someone too :nod:

Yeah, the prosecution was a joke the entire step of the way from the beginning. Between the judge and the prosecution, there was so much underhanded shit that the defense kept having to overcome to get justice tonight.


LMFAO Black Panters are now all about "peaceful" expression?

:D Since when?

[SmoothPancakes]

Rev. Sharpton upset he was called out for what he is a race baiter

What channel are you on?

[CLW]

:D Yeah, you called this one from the beginning. If the prosecution had somehow managed to prove their case better, maybe the jury would have gotten him on manslaughter (I still say and believe if they wanted manslaughter considered by the jury, the fuckers should have filed it before the goddamn trial), but yeah, now after the trial, not guilty was the right and only way to go. If people is this nation can't handle it and get past their emotions and take off the "whitey hates blacks"-colored glasses and realize that justice WAS served tonight by a legally correct verdict, then that's their problem.

Yeah, the prosecution was a joke the entire step of the way from the beginning. Between the judge and the prosecution, there was so much underhanded shit that the defense kept having to overcome to get justice tonight.

:D Since when?

NO. The Prosecution actually did all it could with a SHITTY case. As they drill in our heads: (1) if you don't have the facts - pound the law; (2) if you don't have the law - pound the facts; (3) if you don't have the law or facts -- POUND THE TABLE!

I suppose you could question the strategy of calling basically all of the defense witnesses for them. The strategy was to bring it up so the jury wouldn't think they were hiding (plus their case would have been the Martin family and the dumb/liar on the phone if they hadn't)

The prosecution wasn't great but it wasn't bad. Lawyers cannot do anything when they have no facts and no law to support other than to "pound the table" that's why the Prosecution closed the way they did to the jury. Trying to use emotion. It didn't work and it shouldn't have worked.

Like I said on Page 1 (this has Duke Lax on steroids written all over it). Nifong lost his law license for all the stunts he pulled. it will be interesting to see if an investigation is conducted on the prosecution and judge. I believe both are warranted. I doubt one gets done on the judge though. Judges RARELY get investigated. You practically have to have them on video and have 1000 witnesses to the video before the state bar will even here the complaint.

since tonight. they teachin' the youth to be upset but to not resort to violence. lol however at the end the guy basically admitted it was only b/c the miltary and a ton of cops were there so they wouldn't win if they got into a gun fight.

[CLW]

What channel are you on?

flipping back and forth sharpton is on msnbc

[CLW]

lol of course the screams stopped when the shot was fired b/c zimmerman got his assailant off him and he didn't need help anymore

wow i'm ashamed these people somehow managed to graduate lawschool. their logical/argument skills are SEVERELY lacking.

[CLW]

Fox News pressing the issue of investigating the prosecutor's office ethically for hiding evidence and firing the IT employee

[CLW]

lol and the local defense attorney doesn't want to rock the boat and have the prosecutor punish his clients so he tries to be PC. :nod:

[SmoothPancakes]

Fox News pressing the issue of investigating the prosecutor's office ethically for hiding evidence and firing the IT employee

Good. They should. Hope the other media picks up on it (though, I doubt other media will).

[CLW]

Good. They should. Hope the other media picks up on it (though, I doubt other media will).

Nope that's Fox News only territory. CNN/MSNBC/Networks have been in the tank for the prosecution from the jump.

[CLW]

lmao Stossel on Fox Business is out there but provides a nice insite into the extreme libertarian philosophy. he's talking about how lawsuits crush business (true) woman in wheel chair sued 47 businesses (she NEVER visited) for not having a wheel chair restroom -- apparently that's required in NY.

[CLW]

lol MSNBC v. Fox News - you wouldn't even know they were talking about the same case -- MSNBC is apoplectic


FOX: calm rational logical coherent thoughts with actual factual/legal analysis -- not surprised with result

MSNBC: judge racist; jurors racist; zimmerman racist -- it's legal to kill all blacks in america -- need to ban all guns -- need to ban/reverse self-defense law -- screaming/shrill incoherent ranting/raving -- seemed stunned at result

[CLW]

cnn -- prosecution sucked -- better attorneys would have gotten a conviction

[SmoothPancakes]

"NAACP: Outraged and heartbroken at the verdict"

There's a fucking surprise. :D

[CLW]

MSNBC -- defense lawyers are racists b/c they defended a racist :nod:

[CLW]

well not that I needed any further confirmation but tonight was just a further reminder that LIBERALS are simply incapable of thing logically/coherently. it's all about "heart"/"passion"/"i don't think it's fair"/"i don't care what the law says it isn't right"

lol its really difficult to understand how humans can be wired so... differently.

[CLW]

NAACP wants Zimmerman charged on federal charges for civil rights violations. :smh:

[CLW]

http://www.breitbart.com/mediaserver/3640B80FC929402BB59CBF946C279EC5.jpg

[SmoothPancakes]

:fp:

Just won't give up until they get what they want.

NAACP apparently going to request for a federal investigation and possibly a civil rights federal indictment against Zimmerman (according to Fox News).

Just ridiculous. This guy goes through an entire trial, gets found not guilty of second degree murder (and manslaughter) and yet the NAACP is still trying to fuck him up the ass because they don't like the verdict. I hate this fucking country more and more every day. :fp:

[CLW]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BPGylc2CUAANF3_.png

Then this AP writer deletes her entire account apparently? LMAO I got two words for ya:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPXcuSLm5N0

[SmoothPancakes]

well not that I needed any further confirmation but tonight was just a further reminder that LIBERALS are simply incapable of thing logically/coherently. it's all about "heart"/"passion"/"i don't think it's fair"/"i don't care what the law says it isn't right"

lol its really difficult to understand how humans can be wired so... differently.

While I'm officially independent, ultimately, I'd fall more on the liberal side than conservative, but even for me this is a goddamn no-brainer. Emotionally, sure the result might suck for Martin's family and his supporters, but legally, it's the correct verdict. Like I said earlier, if people can't get their heads around that, that justice prevailed tonight with a legally correct verdict, that the justice system worked as it was supposed to, regardless of all the claims of the idiots saying justice failed tonight, then that's their problem to deal with. The country and its legal system doesn't revolve around their feelings and emotions. They're gonna have to learn to deal with it, suck it up and get over it.

[CLW]

While I'm officially independent, ultimately, I'd fall more on the liberal side than conservative, but even for me this is a goddamn no-brainer. Emotionally, sure the result might suck for Martin's family and his supporters, but legally, it's the correct verdict. Like I said earlier, if people can't get their heads around that, that justice prevailed tonight with a legally correct verdict, that the justice system worked as it was supposed to, regardless of all the claims of the idiots saying justice failed tonight, then that's their problem to deal with. The country and its legal system doesn't revolve around their feelings and emotions. They're gonna have to learn to deal with it, suck it up and get over it.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv41/666DemonicWolf/MythCathexis/thats-racist.gif

[CLW]

CNN -- the jury was stupid

[SmoothPancakes]

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv41/666DemonicWolf/MythCathexis/thats-racist.gif

:D

I'm sure someone out there truly would feel that way about my comment.

[CLW]

lol comparing a case with NO defense (Vick) to a case with a COMPLETE defense (Zimmerman) -- these people are MORONS and i'm going to go to bed pray to God to restore common sense / logic / reason will be restored to America

[ram29jackson]

http://www.breitbart.com/mediaserver/3640B80FC929402BB59CBF946C279EC5.jpg

he has a point...this guy has to be protected now or hidden like an ex mafia boss

[SmoothPancakes]

Black guy on Fox News talking about why Justice Department needs to investigate.

"You need to look at this case from an African-American point of view"

Sure, Vick killed a dog and got three years while Zimmerman shot an African-American CHILD TEENAGER and got off free, because of the way the laws in Virginia and Florida are written, the facts of the cases and the defense of Zimmerman. Zimmerman was not guilty under the laws of Florida. Simple as that!

[SmoothPancakes]

http://www.breitbart.com/mediaserver/3640B80FC929402BB59CBF946C279EC5.jpg

Just proves the mindset of some of these dumbasses in this country. Zimmerman kills Martin, it's murder and "he should fry/be rotting in jail". Someone kills Zimmerman "to avenge Martin", that person will be hailed as a hero and there will be protests for police to let them go free.

The ending of Shaft comes to mind. Black mother of dead black son shots and kills white perp, the crowd starts chanting "let her go, let her go" while the police are securing the gun and handcuffing her. It's gonna be the same thing if someone manages to find and guns down Zimmerman. It was murder for Zimmerman to kill Martin but it'll be "justice" for that random someone to kill Zimmerman and they should be allowed to go free.

[SmoothPancakes]

From neogaf. :fp:



Originally Posted by Knoxcore

The jury believed it was self defense. That is how our justice system works. We are only seeing pieces. Most of you get your information from the media and third party sources. You may not be happy with the verdict, but they system worked.

I'm really astonished by the people posting some variation on this. The purpose of the justice system is to produce justice, not to follow its own rules. The rules exist because we believe that they will lead to justice, not the other way around.

Do you think George Zimmerman should or should not be held responsible for the killing of Trayvon Martin? If you think he should be, then the system has failed. The fact that it failed by following its rules does not mean that it didn't fail -- especially given how often the system fails to follow its own rules when doing so would mean not putting a black man in prison.

[SmoothPancakes]

And watching some of these earlier interviews on Fox News, can we PLEASE stop calling Martin a fucking child? He was a muscular 17 year old teenager with MMA training. He was NOT a fucking child. Just like the fucking media showing those goddamn pictures last year of Trayvon as a fucking 12 year old kid. Stop with the bullshit "kid/child" shit.

[AustinWolv]

go to Chicago race baiters and complain about all the black kids getting shot nearly 70 of them in a weekend alone not too long ago. yeah you don't care b/c they are getting shot by other black kids. :smh:

Being accountable isn't exactly the liberal way. Blaming others is.

[dhook27]

Guys im black and blacks kill blacks all the time dont know why this was a national story.

[SmoothPancakes]

Guys im black and blacks kill blacks all the time dont know why this was a national story.

Because it ended up a political story. The only reason the state prosecutor took this to trial with murder 2 was because of political pressure. Just look at Obama getting involved last year when he said if he had a son, Treyvon would be it. Zimmerman was free and not arrested right away afterwards because the city police and city prosecutor did not believe they had enough evidence to go to trial and win. It took until the state prosecutor and politicians and the whole racial protests drew them to file charges against Zimmerman and try to take their mickey mouse case to trial.

Since this verdict was announced 5 hours ago, who knows how many black people have been shot and killed in this country. Where are the protests for them? Because black on black crime isn't "sexy" to the media. But white on black or black on white, oh hell, they can have a field day with that because of the racial overtones, never mind the fact that Zimmerman is Hispanic. Just why this is the first time I have ever heard the term "white-Hispanic" used in the media, because the media was trying to play up the whole white man killed a black child teenager shit to get ratings with all the race debates.

[bdoughty]

Guys im black and blacks kill blacks all the time dont know why this was a national story.

http://i.imgur.com/kIdPoDE.jpg

[SmoothPancakes]

http://i.imgur.com/kIdPoDE.jpg

:nod:

It seems like every single black on white or white on black criminal case in this country that has turned into a major news story has been because of those two. And yet, for as much as I see them on TV talking about something when it involves a black person and a white person, I never hear a single peep out of them when it comes to all the black on black crime in this country. Like I said, black on black crime isn't sexy enough for wall to wall media coverage. It's just another crime taking place in this country. No protests and stories to do on racial relations in this nation when it's black on black, as is the case with white on white.

All of the massive media coverage of various trials in this nation, what are they almost universally about? Black/white crime, something involving children (Casey Anthony) or something involving celebrities (OJ, Michael Vick, Aaron Hernandez, every dumb cunt who has gotten in trouble with the law in Hollywood). If the case/crime doesn't fit into one of those three categories, national news couldn't give two shits about it. It's relegated to your local news station or daily rag.

[souljahbill]

So, for those who don't know, I'm a black guy.
Also, I consider myself pretty educated as I went to the top public schools in New Orleans growing up and have 2 college degrees.
I work as a high school teacher so I'm familiar with the education system, at least in Louisiana.

And like CLW, I saw this coming days ago. I even told my wife that he's getting off so be prepared.

Here's what I feel is wrong in America, especially concerning black people. Now, these are generalities. Obviously, it doesn't apply to everyone but like stereotypes, these are born from observations seen many times over.

1) We are the most racist racial group in America. Are there white people who dislike black people? Of course, but far and away, black people are brought up on "hate the white man" junk. It's why A LOT of black people is comedy is "White people do this....black people do that."

2) We feel very entitled. Because "whitey" brought us here to be slaves eons ago, we still have this sense of entitlement that America owes us something. It's why a lot of people are HAPPY to be on food stamps. HAPPY. On the Steve Harvey morning show, Steve Harvey had to go OFF (and rightfully so) on this one guy for being disappointed in Obama because he hasn't had a "black agenda" in office (Earth to dumbass, Obama is the president of ALL THE FUCKING PEOPLE IN THE US, NOT just the black people).

3) As black people, we aren't holding our kids responsible for being educated. We hold them responsible for going to school and getting good grades but that's not the same as being educated. I tell my students all the time, if you get a good grade in my class by trying to memorize information and then forgetting it immediately after the test, you're not hurting me, you're hurting yourself. I teach Health Science (not general health as the PE teachers do that, Health Science is an advanced course for people wanting to pursue a career in a health occupation) so when I give a test on the major muscle groups of the body, for example, I tell them that if they're going to be a doctor like they claim (which I know they have no shot of being), they can't just memorize it, they need to LEARN it. In one ear and out the other though.

My wife was in literal tears last night after hearing the verdict. She had Zimmerman in the chair before the case even happened. She needed an eye for an eye. I told her that if Casey Anthony can get off than there's no way Zimmerman is getting off too. Like CLW said, the case was weak. I'm not a lawyer and even I could see the prosecution was grasping for straws and that the lesser charges at the last midnight was a desperation move to get SOMETHING/ANYTHING.

I went of Facebook/Twitter after the verdict just to see the reaction (my favorite class in college was sociology). Social media did not let me down. My people were up in arms are the system failing them again while I had non-black friends who weren't "celebrating" per se, but since a majority of them are your red-blooded, pro-gun, get off my property or I'll shoot Americans who were........pleased(?) with the verdict. I just love how race changes viewpoints. It's fascinating to me.

Anyway, that's all I have for now. Carry on.

[bdoughty]

Interesting points made. I think there is a also a #4 that plays a large part. Fatherhood. Far too much burden is placed on the mother or grandmother to raise their children in black families. You can't be a good role model from prison and you can't be a good father having multiple children with different women. Stats show 1 in 4 children (25%) in the U.S. are raised by a single parent amongst all races. 72% of black children are raised by a single parent (http://www.examiner.com/article/single-parent-homes-highest-among-african-americans).

The problem starts at home.

[oweb26]

I am also black and I agree with everything you just said except point one...though I think we are in the top 3. :nod:

Growing up as what would be called an "inner city youth" I do find that most of the "fuck ups" I knew always seemed to blame the white man for shit, unfortunately I feel like social media is just a platform for any ignorant person white or black, green or yellow to pass of their thoughts and people think that all said people of that color feel this way or that way.

I am the only black person in my office and I will be the first to say that some people say some borderline racist shit, do I let it get me all up in arms, nope because there is no cure for stupidity.

We you speak on people who are happy to be on food stamps I know exactly what you are talking about. Food stamps has been the biggest crutch to an people of color and it really does bother me when I meet young boys and girls who are happy that they are 5th generation project kids (they like to call it representing their hood).

I like to believe that I am have been pretty open to "maybe" the man was really protecting himself, should he have done alot of things he did nope, do I believe he was following the kid because he was black.... yeap, but self defense is self defense no matter how stupid your initial reasons were.

[CLW]

My wife was in literal tears last night after hearing the verdict. She had Zimmerman in the chair before the case even happened. She needed an eye for an eye. I told her that if Casey Anthony can get off than there's no way Zimmerman is getting off too. Like CLW said, the case was weak. I'm not a lawyer and even I could see the prosecution was grasping for straws and that the lesser charges at the last midnight was a desperation move to get SOMETHING/ANYTHING.

I'm not sure of the process of FL (if I were prosecutor and I had to charge the case I would have BEGUN by charging him with both Murder and Manslaughter I suppose). However, it's not unusual for charges to be changed at the close of evidence. Apparently, FL law REQUIRED the manslaughter charge if EITHER side requested it at the end. Defense didn't want it but State did so it had to be added pursuant to FL law. It may or may not be unusual but I suspect since it is in the statute it is NOT although they DEFINITELY requested it b/c they knew their case was weak.

I honestly don't understand this mindset. I'm sure it's b/c I'm white.

If Martin had been a white 17 y.o. teenager and Zimmerman had been black and all of the same facts/evidence I would have felt the EXACT SAME WAY about the case. Unfortunately, it seemed a large chunk of the African-American/black community wanted a conviction solely b/c the deceased was black despite the fact the evidence and law CLEARLY said there should be no conviction.

Now, flip it with O.J. Simpson. It's CLEAR he murdered two people yet African-Americans/black community cheers when he gets off solely b/c the defendant was black.

I do not pick sides in criminal cases b/c of race. I pick sides based upon logic and the facts/evidence presented in the case. Unfortunately, at least in high profile cases involving members of their own race a high proportion of African-Americans tend to only look at the race of the parties involved in deciding how the case should go. That's a DANGEROUS way to go.

Perhaps they get their info from different sources than I do. I've long wondered if the power of the race baiters is stronger than even I think it is. It seems A-A don't consider the fact that Sharpton, Jackson et al. have a SEVERE conflict of interest when reporting anything like this. I.e. they make money/power off of telling people anything/everything bad that happens in life is b/c of racism.

[CLW]

The Oakland police dispatch office said about 100 people protested, with some in the crowd breaking windows on businesses and starting small fires in the streets. As the protest wound down with the crowd dispersing, the office said that as of 2 a.m. PDT it had no word of any arrests.

Local media reports said some Oakland marchers vandalized a police squad car and police formed a line to block the protesters' path.

The Oakland Tribune said some windows on the newspaper's downtown offices were broken, and footage from a television helicopter show people attempting to start fires in the street and spray painting anti-police graffiti.

http://news.yahoo.com/protesters-zimmerman-acquittal-march-calif-091855459.html

Yeah that's it hurt some small business owner by breaking the windows on his/her store front and destroy Public (taxpayer) property. That will show Zimmerman. :smh: Look you wanna protest b/c your dumb and don't understand the rule of law. Fine I support your 1st Ammend. right to be a moron and scream/yell as long as you do so peacefully.

[CLW]

I completely forgot that Zimmerman already has a lawsuit against NBC for editing the 911 call to make it look like he said "black" w/o being prompted by the 911 operator who asked the race of the Martin 1st.

NBC better get the checkbook out now and buy Mr. Zimmerman a private island.

[SCClassof93]

:fp: This black guy, not sure what his status or affiliation with the Martin family or the case is, but he's talking about a tweet received by a Martin Luther King daughter earlier this morning, talking about today being the defining moment in her father's dream.

That's the problem with how fucked up this case has been. African-Americans are more focuses on getting justice for Trayvon through whatever means necessary, even if it means sending a man to jail for the hell of it, whereas everyone else is interested in justice as dictated by law. Zimmerman being found not guilty may not be what they wanted, but if they truly give even the slightest fuck about justice and law in this country, they'll recognize that this was the proper verdict for the case. Not guilty may not be the socially popular verdict, but it was legally the correct verdict and that ultimately is what matters!

Justice was given to Travon and that is the problem.

[SCClassof93]

You know we joke around allot here but I'm glad that here at the TGT most of us can have a conversation fairly civilly. The posts here are usually logical and its usually a disagreement on fundamental premises. But the stupidity of America is only going to get worse as people refuse to read and educate themselves and think for themselves.

As I told you earlier, Plato and the ancient Greeks knew government run education would never prepare the citizens to intellectually challenge the government on anything.

[SCClassof93]

Well, finished getting caught up. A few thoughts.........racism is the most misused word in our language. Unless you think a particular race (usually your own) is superior to another you are not a racist. What we do have in our country is bigotry and most all of us are guilty of it at some point. Our "leaders" exploit our bigotry for their profit. Our "media" corporations and "educational' institutes have failed and are failing. I am somewhat pleasantly surprised that defending your life is not a crime in Florida yet. Also, I have seen no riots here in Montana.

However, when it is all said and done I am saddened at how bitter and angry we are towards one another. I am saddened at a nation and culture that "raises" children that have no hope. I am really saddened for family and friends that lose these kids to violence even if the kid perpetrates it. I am saddened that most fear their fellow countrymen to the point of needing a gun at all times and places. I am saddened for the sports like following of either side during this saga, cheering their teams.

Most of all I am saddened for Travon's mother, not because of a trial outcome (the correct outcome) but because she lost a child. She lost him first to the culture and then he died. Sadly, most will not look to the real cause of our problems, ourselves. Instead we will look outward at/to/for other excuses. This failure as a people knows no boundary of race and until a majority of us demand freedom AND understand that responsibility MUST come with it, we will continue to degenerate and look to government to fix things.

Sorry for the ramble guys.

[skipwondah33]

And watching some of these earlier interviews on Fox News, can we PLEASE stop calling Martin a fucking child? He was a muscular 17 year old teenager with MMA training. He was NOT a fucking child. Just like the fucking media showing those goddamn pictures last year of Trayvon as a fucking 12 year old kid. Stop with the bullshit "kid/child" shit.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't let most 17 year olds handle me like that at my age and size. I was a nice size boy when I was 17 (6-1, 210) but no where near the strength at my present age (31).

Sure it could happen and should happen if I follow and/or provoke them.

But it's not likely to happen. Unless the kid is the size of these football players now at that age that are already D1 scholarship bound (Clowney, others)

Should I be carrying a loaded gun though? Don't care if I'm getting my ass handed to me, should things get real I can always fall back on the fact I have a gun and can use it.

Sounds like what happen was the adult approached the wrong person that night (apparently a stronger than normal man-child teenage young Bones Jones in the making) but said adult just so happen to have a gun which made his initial mistake more justifiable.

[SCClassof93]

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't let most 17 year olds handle me like that at my age and size. I was a nice size boy when I was 17 (6-1, 210) but no where near the strength at my present age (31).

Sure it could happen and should happen if I follow and/or provoke them.

But it's not likely to happen. Unless the kid is the size of these football players now at that age that are already D1 scholarship bound (Clowney, others)

Should I be carrying a loaded gun though? Don't care if I'm getting my ass handed to me, should things get real I can always fall back on the fact I have a gun and can use it.

Sounds like what happen was the adult approached the wrong person that night (apparently a stronger than normal man-child teenage young Bones Jones in the making) but said adult just so happen to have a gun which made his initial mistake more justifiable.

And had he not had that gun he would have been possibly been beaten to death and nobody would have known or cared.....is that what you are saying? I mean if the gun is the issue, not the intent of the individuals we have a whole other issue. But if GZ just wanted to go out and wield a gun and shoot unsuspecting kids like a psycho he really did not need to get pummeled in the face and laid out on his back.

[souljahbill]

And had he not had that gun he would have been possibly been beaten to death and nobody would have known or cared.....is that what you are saying? I mean if the gun is the issue, not the intent of the individuals we have a whole other issue. But if GZ just wanted to go out and wield a gun and shoot unsuspecting kids like a psycho he really did not need to get pummeled in the face and laid out on his back.

Without the gun, he doesn't follow or confront Trayvon Martin. The gun gave Zimmernan artificial confidence.

[skipwondah33]

Had he not had the gun this wouldn't have happened to begin with IMO.

Possessing a gun does one thing that I have personally seen. Just in my experience not anyone else.

1. It makes you feel tough or ready should something happen. Usually you end up looking for it at time.

There is no coincidence that the "toughest" acting people in areas or hole in the wall clubs...or clubs in general. Are the ones who are "carrying" or have a gun nearby in the car. Or have an entourage of people but even then someone is likely equipped.

Never will you likely see someone acting all big and bad in an area or club and NOT have a gun on them. Maybe there the next greatest MMA fighter or the strongest one in there but doubtful.

Would GZ likely have pursued and approached this teenager had he not had a loaded gun? I'm willingly to say no, because if he had he would have been prepared in other ways to deal with him (hand to hand combat, etc).

I love the neighborhood I live in, but unless I'm armed I'm not approaching ANYONE. Neither would a police officer and their trained for hand to hand. Those are just my opinions.

[oweb26]

I honestly don't understand this mindset. I'm sure it's b/c I'm white.

If Martin had been a white 17 y.o. teenager and Zimmerman had been black and all of the same facts/evidence I would have felt the EXACT SAME WAY about the case. Unfortunately, it seemed a large chunk of the African-American/black community wanted a conviction solely b/c the deceased was black despite the fact the evidence and law CLEARLY said there should be no conviction.

Now, flip it with O.J. Simpson. It's CLEAR he murdered two people yet African-Americans/black community cheers when he gets off solely b/c the defendant was black.

I do not pick sides in criminal cases b/c of race. I pick sides based upon logic and the facts/evidence presented in the case. Unfortunately, at least in high profile cases involving members of their own race a high proportion of African-Americans tend to only look at the race of the parties involved in deciding how the case should go. That's a DANGEROUS way to go.


You might have felt the same way (which is actually the correct way to see it) but I think any rational/moreso realistic thinking person knows the courts might have ruled a different way, just because you might actually go by the notion justice is blind doesn't mean it really is, to get behind what SC said this is ultimately a sad day no matter which way you look at it, unfortunately even to this day there are two different america's granted the gap isn't as wide as it once was but none the less it still exist.

To agree with some other posters having a gun does bring on the the "I wish they would" syndrome, I too have seen this in effect.

[bdoughty]

I love the neighborhood I live in, but unless I'm armed I'm not approaching ANYONE. Neither would a police officer and their trained for hand to hand. Those are just my opinions.

You don't see anything wrong with this?

[CLW]

Zimmerman going to law school (don't do it Zimmerman -- it's not worth the student loan debt) :nod:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/14/us-usa-florida-shooting-future-idUSBRE96D0DT20130714 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/14/us-usa-florida-shooting-future-idUSBRE96D0DT20130714)

[SCClassof93]

Without the gun, he doesn't follow or confront Trayvon Martin. The gun gave Zimmernan artificial confidence.

Define "artificial confidence" please. I think I get your point. GZ would have been scared to be on a volunteer patrol at night in his neighborhood without a gun. Therefore, no gun, no patrol, no attacking GZ, no death of Travon. Is this the logic?:dunno: Let us look at it another way......folks have a right to protect life and property, folks have a right to follow people peacefully without fear of being attacked, if attacked people have that right to protect themselves. My point is no one here crossed the line until Travon jumped GZ. If GZ was some psycho loon looking to kill young males (like say Jefferey Dahmer) he is not going to take the physical beating he took before he defends himself.

[SCClassof93]

You don't see anything wrong with this?

Think the point Skip was perhaps making is GZ may have lacked the training that the police have :dunno:. Still, training or not we have the right to protect ourselves, our families and our property. What we do not have is a right to attack someone who questions us, we can ignore them and keep walking instead.

[skipwondah33]

Without the gun he doesn't approach anyone IMO.

People just don't do that especially at night with whom someone they don't know.

However if I am we're armed and knew how to effectively use my weapon then any fear or hesitation I had approaching someone at night who i do not know would be all but out the door.

The reason people arm themselves as it is for protection. So they fell safe.

So GZ would have felt that same "safety" approaching this person without a gun? I just don't think so.

I have a weapon in my house so I feel comfortable should anyone ever threaten my home and family. "Wish someone would actually. I sleep better knowing I have it than not.

Its human nature to feel comfortable when you feel safe. GZ wouldn't have approached him without his gun. Apparently since it was allegedly so easy for a teenage Bones Jones to handle him like it was said. Don't care how neighborhood watch skills he had.

Regarding right to protect yourself. That has nothing to do with why this started. My point has to do with why he felt fine approaching him. Because he had a loaded gun. He only had a right to protect himself after he brought the action to himself. His life wasnt in danger prior to the confrontation. After he realized he chose the wrong one to make a citizens arrest against he then had a right to protect himself under Florida law.

[bdoughty]

We can speculate until the end of time but the reality is that only two people knew exactly what went on and what was in each others minds and only one lived to tell about it, so the full story will never be known.

[morsdraconis]

We can speculate until the end of time but the reality is that only two people knew exactly what went on and what was in each others minds and only one lived to tell about it, so the full story will never be known.

Well, in my eyes, it's pretty obvious what happened. GZ saw a most likely black kid with a hooded sweatshirt on walking through his neighborhood. After calling the police and being instructed by the 911 operator to NOT follow him, he did anyway. It being night time and all, GZ most likely called after Treyvon in a harsh tone making Treyvon think that he's about to get his ass kicked or somethin' ("Hey, what are you doing here?!" or something like that can just as easily sound like a bunch of punks about to beat someone up as it can a concerned citizen - not saying that's what he said or anything). Treyvon probably reacted in a normal fight or flight way of self-defense when he was grabbed and GZ, doing the same, shot him. It's a clear case of wrong place at the wrong time but one idiot had a gun and killed a kid (Treyvon was a kid - like it or not, he was a kid in all legal and sociological senses of the term).


Now, this is without knowing pretty much ANYTHING about the case, because, like always, the media over-sensationalizes everything so I just ignore it. So, I could just as easily be wrong about what happened, and, truthfully, I don't care. It's simply another case of an idiot with a gun thinking he has more power than he should and another innocent (because Treyvon was most definitely innocent based on the reason why he was there in the first place) person's life is taken because of dumb asses with guns.

[oweb26]

I think Mor's summed it up best and how some people would view it......

CLW will be next with his "fair and balanced" opinion.. :glare:

[skipwondah33]

Well, in my eyes, it's pretty obvious what happened. GZ saw a most likely black kid with a hooded sweatshirt on walking through his neighborhood. After calling the police and being instructed by the 911 operator to NOT follow him, he did anyway. It being night time and all, GZ most likely called after Treyvon in a harsh tone making Treyvon think that he's about to get his ass kicked or somethin' ("Hey, what are you doing here?!" or something like that can just as easily sound like a bunch of punks about to beat someone up as it can a concerned citizen - not saying that's what he said or anything). Treyvon probably reacted in a normal fight or flight way of self-defense when he was grabbed and GZ, doing the same, shot him. It's a clear case of wrong place at the wrong time but one idiot had a gun and killed a kid (Treyvon was a kid - like it or not, he was a kid in all legal and sociological senses of the term).


Now, this is without knowing pretty much ANYTHING about the case, because, like always, the media over-sensationalizes everything so I just ignore it. So, I could just as easily be wrong about what happened, and, truthfully, I don't care. It's simply another case of an idiot with a gun thinking he has more power than he should and another innocent (because Treyvon was most definitely innocent based on the reason why he was there in the first place) person's life is taken because of dumb asses with guns.

Exactly Mors

I know it's all speculation, but one thing is a certain..guns make us feel safe.

And what I meant by me not approaching anyone in my neighborhood was in that manner.

Sure to say hi and chat, normal interaction. But I would not be pursuing or confronting anyone, anywhere that I didnt recognize, because I dont know what they would do or are capable of.

[bdoughty]

guns make us feel safe.

Not me. I shot a shotgun once and have never had the desire to pick one up again. Do not have one in my house, farm building, etc.

[CLW]

FBI records: agents found no evidence that Zimmerman was racist

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/12/155918/more-evidence-released-in-trayvon.html#.UePgW421Ewp


Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/12/155918/more-evidence-released-in-trayvon.html#.UeM9mT7DVoY#storylink=cpy

[CLW]

Believe CLW doesn't know crap. Well here is a Harvard Law Professor....

Dershowitz: Zimmerman Special Prosecutor Angela Corey Should Be Disbarred
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/07/14/alan_dershowitz_zimmerman_special_prosecutor_angel a_corey_should_be_disbarred.html

[skipwondah33]

Not me. I shot a shotgun once and have never had the desire to pick one up again. Do not have one in my house, farm building, etc.Ok not everyone.

But they may make the people who may have them feel comfortable, where they otherwise may not. Bottom line is I'd say a good percentage of the board wouldn't approach someone they didn't know, at night in a confrontational way...especially after being told not..if they were not armed.

I NEVER wanted one or felt I needed one either. Until people this day and age started getting more desperate and doing silly things all over the country and in the town I live in...which I'll add is slow paced and small as they come. Now that I have a family to protect. Always felt my bat and hammer would be sufficient haha, plus I don't sleep at night anyway so I'd already be up should something happen. Guys aren't going into people's houses with just their hands or a knife these days, so I figure I'd rather have one than not. I have no enemies, don't get in confrontations but you never know. Lady in the townhouse row of ours (5 units in all) at the other end was robbed last year during the day, fortunately she wasn't harmed though. My wife stays home with our son, so she was home that day as well.

Honestly I hope I never have to use it...and I sure won't be looking for a reason to use it either.

[SCClassof93]

Actually I am an idiot with a gun just like the idiots that founded the nation. I have a concealed carry permit in several states, this requires training btw. This does not in any way make me feel safe(r) than I normally do. I do not engage in any form of "neighborhood watch" but I can tell you right now if you enter my home at night and I have any chance to shoot first I will. In my yard at night?? I will watch quietly from the shadows after calling the police but come at me and you are going to get shot. If I am in a gas station and you want to rob it and me, be ready because I am. Back to the safe comment Skip. One of my greatest fears in life is someone attacking or killing my wife, another is that I may have to kill another human being for doing just that. Does not make my feel safe, it makes make feel prepared. Anyone that thinks this makes me an idiot is ignorant of reality.

[skipwondah33]

Actually I am an idiot with a gun just like the idiots that founded the nation. I have a concealed carry permit in several states, this requires training btw. This does not in any way make me feel safe(r) than I normally do. I do not engage in any form of "neighborhood watch" but I can tell you right now if you enter my home at night and I have any chance to shoot first I will. In my yard at night?? I will watch quietly from the shadows after calling the police but come at me and you are going to get shot. If I am in a gas station and you want to rob it and me, be ready because I am. Back to the safe comment Skip. One of my greatest fears in life is someone attacking or killing my wife, another is that I may have to kill another human being for doing just that. Does not make my feel safe, IMO it makes make feel prepared. Anyone that think this makes me an idiot is ignorant of reality.Agree with everything you just said

That still does not justify following and approaching someone who is minding their own business, after you have been told not to.

What you just said is what any rational, thinking person who isn't out to play cop would do.

GZ wanted to be a cop, so he played cop which is why this incident happened in the first place.

Wife and I are actually scheduled for a class in WV on the 27th. It is for handgun permit training. I have no need for a carry permit, it just happens to come along with the class. He also teaches home defense tactics, safety, etc. Believe the carry permit is valid in 30 states he mentioned, of course not in Maryland where I reside but again I have no need or plans to carry anyway just a perk of the class.

Don't believe Mors was trying to say every person with a gun is an idiot. Just ones who I was trying to explain in my posts above about appearing to look for trouble or do something stupid with the gun.

By any means necessary you should be able to protect your family...but provoking and then protecting is another thing IMO.

Guns don't kill people, stupid people with guns kill people or so they say.

[SCClassof93]

Yeah bud I guess we see it differently and that is okay. I would not do what GZ did (watchman) however that does not need justification. We may think he was ignorant/stupid, whatever but he did nothing wrong. The kid jumping and bashing his skull in his wrong and at that point GZ has the right to protect himself.

I take advice from mors on games, everything else.....not so much :D

[skipwondah33]

Yeah bud I guess we see it differently and that is okay. I would not do what GZ did (watchman) however that does not need justification. We may think he was ignorant/stupid, whatever but he did nothing wrong. The kid jumping and bashing his skull in his wrong and at that point GZ has the right to protect himself.

I take advice from mors on games, everything else.....not so much :DMartin had a right to protect himself as well.

I'm not familiar with the neighborhood watchman rules and regulations handbook, but I'm sure after you call the police your voluntary "job" is done. You aren't to play cop or act like this is the wild wild west. Call the police and monitor the situation before the police arrive...Keyword monitor. Didn't he say something along the lines "these punks get away all the time"? I'm not sure.

There was no reason to protect himself from anything prior to approaching Martin. He wasn't in any danger. Yes he had a right to use his gun after he was getting beat on.

Haha Mors and I haven't agreed on much but this lol.

[AustinWolv]

Martin had a right to protect himself as well.
He did. But was there any evidence whatsoever that he was attacked? Any physical evidence? Anything? Being followed and questioned is not being attacked. Now don't take that as giving permission to GZ for following him on foot if he did so, because I wasn't clear on that testimony. He said he got out of the car to check the house address, but then either followed or confronted Martin shortly thereafter.....it wasn't like he was running after Martin halfway across the neighborhood. And tell me why a 17yr old kid simply couldn't run off? Why did Martin stand and get into it, which leads to his point:

You speculate that GZ wanted to be a cop and was playing cop, but if you want to play the speculation game, who is to say that Martin wasn't playing out his MMA street fight mentality/desire?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aa3_1337699720
Martin supposedly in light-colored shirt: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/82409033/
The evidence that got someone fired:
http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/judge-tosses-trayvons-mma-texts/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362755/Zimmerman-whistle-blower-claimed-prosecutors-didnt-defense-team-evidence-Trayvon-Martins-cell-phone-fired.html

[AustinWolv]

So, for those who don't know, I'm a black guy.
Also, I consider myself pretty educated as I went to the top public schools in New Orleans growing up and have 2 college degrees.
I work as a high school teacher so I'm familiar with the education system, at least in Louisiana.

And like CLW, I saw this coming days ago. I even told my wife that he's getting off so be prepared.

Here's what I feel is wrong in America, especially concerning black people. Now, these are generalities. Obviously, it doesn't apply to everyone but like stereotypes, these are born from observations seen many times over.

1) We are the most racist racial group in America. Are there white people who dislike black people? Of course, but far and away, black people are brought up on "hate the white man" junk. It's why A LOT of black people is comedy is "White people do this....black people do that."

2) We feel very entitled. Because "whitey" brought us here to be slaves eons ago, we still have this sense of entitlement that America owes us something. It's why a lot of people are HAPPY to be on food stamps. HAPPY. On the Steve Harvey morning show, Steve Harvey had to go OFF (and rightfully so) on this one guy for being disappointed in Obama because he hasn't had a "black agenda" in office (Earth to dumbass, Obama is the president of ALL THE FUCKING PEOPLE IN THE US, NOT just the black people).

3) As black people, we aren't holding our kids responsible for being educated. We hold them responsible for going to school and getting good grades but that's not the same as being educated. I tell my students all the time, if you get a good grade in my class by trying to memorize information and then forgetting it immediately after the test, you're not hurting me, you're hurting yourself. I teach Health Science (not general health as the PE teachers do that, Health Science is an advanced course for people wanting to pursue a career in a health occupation) so when I give a test on the major muscle groups of the body, for example, I tell them that if they're going to be a doctor like they claim (which I know they have no shot of being), they can't just memorize it, they need to LEARN it. In one ear and out the other though.

My wife was in literal tears last night after hearing the verdict. She had Zimmerman in the chair before the case even happened. She needed an eye for an eye. I told her that if Casey Anthony can get off than there's no way Zimmerman is getting off too. Like CLW said, the case was weak. I'm not a lawyer and even I could see the prosecution was grasping for straws and that the lesser charges at the last midnight was a desperation move to get SOMETHING/ANYTHING.

I went of Facebook/Twitter after the verdict just to see the reaction (my favorite class in college was sociology). Social media did not let me down. My people were up in arms are the system failing them again while I had non-black friends who weren't "celebrating" per se, but since a majority of them are your red-blooded, pro-gun, get off my property or I'll shoot Americans who were........pleased(?) with the verdict. I just love how race changes viewpoints. It's fascinating to me.

Anyway, that's all I have for now. Carry on.

{Reading back through posts after the weekend}

Good post. Tip of the hat, sir.

[oweb26]

He did. But was there any evidence whatsoever that he was attacked? Any physical evidence? Anything? Being followed and questioned is not being attacked. Now don't take that as giving permission to GZ for following him on foot if he did so, because I wasn't clear on that testimony. He said he got out of the car to check the house address, but then either followed or confronted Martin shortly thereafter.....it wasn't like he was running after Martin halfway across the neighborhood. And tell me why a 17yr old kid simply couldn't run off? Why did Martin stand and get into it, which leads to his point:

And then look even more guilty of nothing? Why should he run? He wasn't doing anything.

I hope you guys see we can keep going around in circles on this BTW.

[AustinWolv]

He wasn't doing anything.
Speculation. The media told you that. You don't KNOW that.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3014413/posts
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2013/07/trayvon-martin-burglary-tools-and-pcp.html

Speculation game goes around and around.


I hope you guys see we can keep going around in circles on this BTW.
Indeed.
Final word is an impartial jury of 6 women found the defendant not guilty based on factual evidence, not speculation. That's all we really need to know at this point, despite what supposed "leaders" are out there trumpeting and conveniently ignoring facts and other just as tragic situations every day.

[skipwondah33]

We do know GZ was told not to pursue or follow him though..

[AustinWolv]

We do know GZ was told not to pursue or follow him though..

We also know that the police had been called before and had not responded. We also know that a lady's house had been broken into while she was there.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/28/nation/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-friend-20120328

From above:
Now don't take that as giving permission to GZ for following him

We also know that stealing and doing/making drugs is bad.


Final word is an impartial jury of 6 women found the defendant not guilty based on factual evidence, not speculation.

[oweb26]

Speculation. The media told you that. You don't KNOW that.
Touche....but that is no more than you know he was doing something, no matter what websites you link me to.

[AustinWolv]

Touche....but that is no more than you know he was doing something, no matter what websites you link me to.

That was my point. You speculated on GZ, so I showed information that easily points to speculation on Martin.

Hence, why I said this and quoted it again:

Final word is an impartial jury of 6 women found the defendant not guilty based on factual evidence, not speculation.

:)

[skipwondah33]

We also know that stealing and doing/making drugs is bad.That action didn't lead to his death

The only thing GZ was correct in doing was protecting his life once his initial decision was made. Even as a "neighborhood watchman" He wasn't "allowed" to do what he did before the shooting (except call 911).

His ultimate decision resulted in the death of someone. The verdict was correct based on what they were trying him for. The decision making that he made based on HIS words and the 911 operator informing him to not do something..well.

If I text and drive, get into an accident and someone dies...My decision to text and drive resulted in that. Not that the victim did this or made drugs, or this and that, etc.

Once GZ decided to do something that he was instructed not to do (which isn't speculation). It ultimately led to now.

[SCClassof93]

All speculation on all sides aside, what led to this kid's death was jumping on and beating a man that happened to have a gun. What GZ did was follow someone that he thought was suspicious. 911 phone operators carry no legal authority and carry no weight, may have been good advice they gave but that would be it and in hindsight. The facts: kid in a neighborhood that has had enough crime in it to the point that residents are taking action (watchmen). Watchman follows, yells at, etc kid. So far at this point nobody, kid or watchmen have done anything wrong or illegal.....kid then physically attacks watchmen.....head bashed on concrete, nose broken etc then watchmen defends himself and a mom loses a child. This is tragic..........but the facts lead to the kid crossing a legal line in attacking GZ.


round and round we go....................

[AustinWolv]

That action didn't lead to his death
Precisely. Just like GZ wanting to be a cop or helping the lady whose house got broken into didn't lead to Martin's death.

Glad you followed the point from my previous post.

SCClass, exactly.

[JBHuskers]

I don't get the fascination and wasting of time in regards to this. Especially when so many people don't even know what they're talking about. Not necessarily talking about here...but just in general about the subject. Thankfully in the social media world we're in, everyone will move on in a week or two.

[AustinWolv]

Thankfully in the social media world we're in, everyone will move on in a week or two.
Hope so. Been really missing the daily Kardashian updates. :bang:

:D

[SCClassof93]

I don't get the fascination and wasting of time in regards to this. Especially when so many people don't even know what they're talking about. Not necessarily talking about here...but just in general about the subject. Thankfully in the social media world we're in, everyone will move on in a week or two.

The same reason stuff like this has been used all through history, power.

[SCClassof93]

Sadly, we will move on. Those that knew and loved TM will have a hard time. GZ will have to live with his decisions, what ifs etc and taking another life the rest of his days.

[oweb26]

That was my point. You speculated on GZ, so I showed information that easily points to speculation on Martin.

Hence, why I said this and quoted it again::)

Did GZ know anything about his alleged past transgressions before he followed him? As far as we know and as far as anyone else knows the kid wasn't doing anything, and as far as I have read nothing points to that he was doing something.

Again you are correct based upon any factual evidence on GZ he was found not guilty, I don't think anyone here is still arguing that point, I think what is bothering some of us is just because you "think" someone is up to something and you follow them,possibly even confront them, and something like this happens does that make it legal? Apparently by this standard the answer is yes!! He bit off more than he could chew plain and simple

I can assume someone is up to something at all times and since I have a gun with my false sense of "security" then I confront them, will I walk also?

As a black man I doubt it! Especially if I killed someone that's not black.

Honestly I am playing devils advocate, I was never really captivated by this trial (or any trial for that matter)...what it does show is we are still talking about two different Americas whether you want to admit that or not is up to you.

[oweb26]

Hope so. Been really missing the daily Kardashian updates. :bang:

:D

HA HA HA....great week for some NFL player to be arrested though, that is what mostly takes up my twitter feed from ESPN it seems like....and baseball...blah!

[SCClassof93]

Did GZ know anything about his alleged past transgressions before he followed him? As far as we know and as far as anyone else knows the kid wasn't doing anything, and as far as I have read nothing points to that he was doing something.

Again you are correct based upon any factual evidence on GZ he was found not guilty, I don't think anyone here is still arguing that point, I think what is bothering some of us is just because you "think" someone is up to something and you follow them,possibly even confront them, and something like this happens does that make it legal? Apparently by this standard the answer is yes!! He bit off more than he could chew plain and simple

I can assume someone is up to something at all times and since I have a gun with my false sense of "security" then I confront them, will I walk also?

As a black man I doubt it! Especially if I killed someone that's not black.

Honestly I am playing devils advocate, I was never really captivated by this trial (or any trial for that matter)...what it does show is we are still talking about two different Americas whether you want to admit that or not is up to you.

Again, see my post above. I can confront you anytime I please about anything I want. You can walk away, cuss me out, call the cops etc. But you can't jump on me and beat me.............this is THE LINE that was crossed and CAUSED the deadly response. Carrying a gun is not to feel safe, superior or enabling one to bite of more than he can chew. It is for preparation against exactly what TM did.............this really can't be this difficult......

[oweb26]

Again, see my post above. I can confront you anytime I please about anything I want. You can walk away, cuss me out, call the cops etc. But you can't jump on me and beat me.............this is THE LINE that was crossed and CAUSED the deadly response. Carrying a gun is not to feel safe, superior or enabling one to bite of more than he can chew. It is for preparation against exactly what TM did.............this really can't be this difficult......

And that is the problem!!!! I said this what seemed like foreever ago, when does that line get crossed as to when I feel threaten? If you are following for an extended period of time and then confront me am I too assume you mean me no harm until you actually harm me, kinda late by then is it not?

Again two different America's! I totally see you point though, I'm just saying!

[CLW]

All of these "arguments" above I responded to back at the VERY beginning of this thread.

TM is dead b/c of TM and ONLY b/c of TM. He attacked GZ w/o any legal right/cause to do so and he paid for it with his life when GZ exercised his right to defend himself.

CASE CLOSED

Just sayin'

[JBHuskers]

If TM was white, this would just be another story in Texas, and there wouldn't be a 12 page thread here talking about it, along with wall to wall coverage on EVERY news channel.

[skipwondah33]

If TM was white, this would just be another story in Texas, and there wouldn't be a 12 page thread here talking about it, along with wall to wall coverage on EVERY news channel.May have been a bad example to use Texas...Jasper, Texas in the house!!

I like the discussion. I know the case is already decided and things like that.

But no where on the internet will you likely find this thorough of level headed discussion about it.

SC that all makes sense........if GZ was a police officer and could waive a badge.

Certainly I wouldn't want to be out confronting people at night solely because I had the right...but because just doesn't seem like the best thing to be doing. Don't know just me. I'm not a softy, scaredy cat or anything. Thought that was normal to people, may be because I grew up around different things.

Probably not too many neighborhood watch people confronting people on the streets of Chicago just because they have every right to.

[AustinWolv]

Did GZ know anything about his alleged past transgressions before he followed him?
Irrelevant, as you could say the same about TM. Did TM know that GZ was really a "creepy ass cracker" or perhaps a guy that was going to ask him something like how the fuck to find the nearest Walmart? I had some old lady follow me from the mailbox, stop, look around, follow me again, and then finally asked me where to find some street. Should I have called her a "creepy ass bluehair" and reacted poorly?
;)


As a black man I doubt it! Especially if I killed someone that's not black.
*cough*OJ*cough*


Again, see my post above. I can confront you anytime I please about anything I want. You can walk away, cuss me out, call the cops etc. But you can't jump on me and beat me.............this is THE LINE that was crossed and CAUSED the deadly response. Carrying a gun is not to feel safe, superior or enabling one to bite of more than he can chew. It is for preparation against exactly what TM did.............this really can't be this difficult......
It isn't. You get it.


I think what is bothering some of us is just because you "think" someone is up to something and you follow them,possibly even confront them, and something like this happens does that make it legal?
So you ever see someone messing with your car in a parking lot? Asked them what they were up to? And then if they supposedly jumped you, would that be your fault for defending yourself? Or are you saying that you were the clear aggressor since you asked them what they were up to?
Example: Was playing in a 3-on-3 outdoor bball tourney back in the day. Came back to my vehicle and these guys were sitting on my hood, had their car keys sitting on my hood potentially scratching it up, were up leaning on my car.....otherwise, just hanging out. Asked them why they were doing that and please to get off my car. Literally. They got all pissy and started challenging me.
What if they had jumped me? Was I the aggressor and "confronted" them? Or was their reaction to a simply inquiry what was the controlling factor in defusing or escalating a "confrontation"?


Apparently by this standard the answer is yes!! He bit off more than he could chew plain and simple
Your thought process here is interesting.


great week for some NFL player to be arrested though, that is what mostly takes up my twitter feed from ESPN it seems like
ROFL. I thought I saw a stat the other day that something like 40 players had been arrested since the Super Bowl or Pro Bowl?
Goodell must be pissing blood.


Probably not too many neighborhood watch people confronting people on the streets of Chicago just because they have every right to.
Given the crime rate and murder rate of Chicago, do people even go out on the street? Furthermore, do they even care?

[JBHuskers]

May have been a bad example to use Texas...Jasper, Texas in the house!!

I like the discussion. I know the case is already decided and things like that.

But no where on the internet will you likely find this thorough of level headed discussion about it.

SC that all makes sense........if GZ was a police officer and could waive a badge.

Certainly I wouldn't want to be out confronting people at night solely because I had the right...but because just doesn't seem like the best thing to be doing. Don't know just me. I'm not a softy, scaredy cat or anything. Thought that was normal to people, may be because I grew up around different things.

Probably not too many neighborhood watch people confronting people on the streets of Chicago just because they have every right to.

I used Texas because they have the stand your ground laws too :D

[oweb26]

Irrelevant, as you could say the same about TM. Did TM know that GZ was really a "creepy ass cracker" or perhaps a guy that was going to ask him something like how the fuck to find the nearest Walmart? I had some old lady follow me from the mailbox, stop, look around, follow me again, and then finally asked me where to find some street. Should I have called her a "creepy ass bluehair" and reacted poorly?
;)


*cough*OJ*cough*


It isn't. You get it.


So you ever see someone messing with your car in a parking lot? Asked them what they were up to? And then if they supposedly jumped you, would that be your fault for defending yourself? Or are you saying that you were the clear aggressor since you asked them what they were up to?
Example: Was playing in a 3-on-3 outdoor bball tourney back in the day. Came back to my vehicle and these guys were sitting on my hood, had their car keys sitting on my hood potentially scratching it up, were up leaning on my car.....otherwise, just hanging out. Asked them why they were doing that and please to get off my car. Literally. They got all pissy and started challenging me.
What if they had jumped me? Was I the aggressor and "confronted" them? Or was their reaction to a simply inquiry what was the controlling factor in defusing or escalating a "confrontation"?


Your thought process here is interesting.


ROFL. I thought I saw a stat the other day that something like 40 players had been arrested since the Super Bowl or Pro Bowl?
Goodell must be pissing blood.


Given the crime rate and murder rate of Chicago, do people even go out on the street? Furthermore, do they even care?


cough *money* cough!

On your car example that is a very loose way of trying to draw a comparison.......

I am not arguing that the man didn't have a right to defend himself...I guess that part is failing to sink in with you guys.

I am arguing he was being creepy and following someone who by most accounts wasn't doing anything, and either he or they exsculated it, but somewhere in this there has to be common sense.....creepy guy following me at night and I am suppose to wait on him to hurt me first, before I react?

This is not some broad daylight guys sitting on my car and got mad because I asked them to get off situation. If those same guys were following you at night and started fucking with you, would you feel bad if they got off because they claim you jumped them? *Hypothetically speaking I understand in that example you would be dead*

This does bring up a pretty good thought though, I knew a guy who was a gun instructor and he literally said to me once...if you pull your gun use because of all the litigation that can come afterwards if you don't use it.

[JBHuskers]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s159/jbennett98/zimmerman_zps4a616ef2.png?t=1373917220

[JBHuskers]

Sorry forgot to put that this was a poll on TMZ. Almost 700k votes.

[skipwondah33]

Given the crime rate and murder rate of Chicago, do people even go out on the street? Furthermore, do they even care?No because chances are they would get killed for doing something so stupid in an area like Chicago.

Also chances are that person they are approaching will have a weapon. And I'm sure the people of Chicago care...they just don't care enough to die over it.

But if we are talking about Sanford, Florida (which I'll state I don't know the area, what it is like, etc, only that it is a suburb), I'd say he felt confident about his chances of not getting killed approaching someone at night.

I'm just thinking the approach without a gun vs approach with a gun percentage would be higher doing the latter.

[oweb26]

No because chances are they would get killed for doing something so stupid in an area like Chicago.

Also chances are that person they are approaching will have a weapon. And I'm sure the people of Chicago care...they just don't care enough to die over it.

But if we are talking about Sanford, Florida (which I'll state I don't know the area, what it is like, etc, only that it is a suburb), I'd say he felt confident about his chances of not getting killed approaching someone at night.

I'm just thinking the approach without a gun vs approach with a gun percentage would be higher doing the latter.

This made me laugh because even though I am mostly debating just to debate this is what I am thinking most of the time, there is no cure for being stupid.

[AustinWolv]

creepy guy following me at night and I am suppose to wait on him to hurt me first, before I react?
How do you know he was being creepy? How did you know he was going to hurt you? So you would automatically attack the person and then proceed to bash his head, rather than ask him what's up or answer his questions? Maybe he wasn't but the DXM (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/24/update-26-part-2-trayvon-martin-shooting-a-year-of-drug-use-culminates-in-predictable-violence/)made TM think he was.

But hey, just conversing about this because I'm bored at work in this meeting as much as I really care either way since the verdict was in.


No because chances are they would get killed for doing something so stupid in an area like Chicago.
That is because Chicago is fucked-up, not because talking to someone or asking what they are doing is wrong.

Also chances are that person they are approaching will have a weapon. And I'm sure the people of Chicago care
If they cared, they wouldn't be pulling a weapon on someone asking them a legit question. The people that do care don't bother because they know that others don't care and the cops aren't coming. National response time shows as much.

[skipwondah33]

That is because Chicago is fucked-up, not because talking to someone or asking what they are doing is wrong.

If they cared, they wouldn't be pulling a weapon on someone asking them a legit question. The people that do care don't bother because they know that others don't care and the cops aren't coming. National response time shows as much.It's not wrong but you can't be too sure in a place like that. You don't know what they want. And given the time that it happened? In day light possibly, but not sure what anyone would want from someone at night

Pretty sure none of that matters to them regarding police response. All that matters is they know they can and likely can assume that they could possibly be shot if they approach the wrong person at night "hey what are you doing here?" or whatever it was said that he said. The ones doing the shooting don't care. The actual citizens care...just as I said not enough to get killed over by approaching someone they don't recognize. Shit that makes even more sense not to do it.

So when you here someone say "hey that's the bad part of town"...you think people are following and asking people "hey what are you doing here?" type questions? Not the concerned for you "hey man what are you doing here?..it's dangerous here", but the "WTF are you doing here in this neighborhood..like you don't belong here" type questions :D

[oweb26]

How do you know he was being creepy? How did you know he was going to hurt you? So you would automatically attack the person and then proceed to bash his head, rather than ask him what's up or answer his questions? Maybe he wasn't but the DXM (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/24/update-26-part-2-trayvon-martin-shooting-a-year-of-drug-use-culminates-in-predictable-violence/)made TM think he was.

But hey, just conversing about this because I'm bored at work in this meeting as much as I really care either way since the verdict was in.


That is because Chicago is fucked-up, not because talking to someone or asking what they are doing is wrong.

If they cared, they wouldn't be pulling a weapon on someone asking them a legit question. The people that do care don't bother because they know that others don't care and the cops aren't coming. National response time shows as much.


We can agree on this, now that I am home its irrelevant.

[AustinWolv]

So when you here someone say "hey that's the bad part of town"...you think people are following and asking people "hey what are you doing here?" type questions? Not the concerned for you "hey man what are you doing here?..it's dangerous here", but the "WTF are you doing here in this neighborhood..like you don't belong here" type questions

Hell, I agree......stop signs don't exist in those areas, at least not when I've been through there, much less stopping to talk to someone...... :)

[Escobar]

Having read all of these responses I am going to post something. The reason a majority of (black) people are mad is not the outcome of the trial but the fact that Zimmerman killed Martin and no one knows if it was truly self defense or not and as a result is getting off scott free. I had a conversation about this with one of my (white) friends when the attack first happened and we both came to the same conclusion that Zimmerman was probably going to be let off because the way the law is written. We both said it's a f'd up situation and justice probably won't happen but people would say we are hippies...some people including us don't believe in the laws of man as they are written and live by nature's law, but that is a completely different political philosophical discussion. By that law, justice was not served. If Zimmerman was black and Martin was white he most likely would have been put in jail. "Don't say OJ" because Johnny Cochran is dead so no he would not have gotten off. Those cops beat Rodney King and they got off. This case stirred up feelings similar to that case in the community, whether you think it should have or not.

We do live in two separate, maybe three counting hispanics from Mexico, Americas. Especially in Texas regarding the Hispanics (Mexicans). The reason I say hispanics from Mexico is if a person comes from Cuba to Florida, at least in the past, they were classified as white on the census hence the reasoning for White (Non-Hispanic) being a race category on standardized tests. Growing up even though things should be the same no matter what your race, things are different. I went to a very wealthy private school in the richest community in Houston and that school used to have a rule up until about 20-30 years ago that they would not allow black people into the school. Even though they do now, there is most definitely a "quota" that was noticeable from my time there (6th-12th grades). I was the only black male in my class and pretty much every grade only had 1-2 males and 3-4 females. A female black judge once spoke at the school and said she bought a house in River Oaks. While moving in, one of her neighbors called the police and said she was robbing the house, just because she was black. Another anecdote: Myself, an asian indian, and three white males were walking to one of the white guys houses across the street from the school and for no reason this white lady comes out of her house and yells "You f'n hoodlums, all you do is walk around here and cause trouble". We did nothing and were confused and the whole time until we got into his house she is yelling at us :smh: Now take this and you have Zimmerman and Martin ten years later except no confrontation took place.

Now the posts I want to address: Nobody cares about the youth in Chicago killing each other except the black community. Numerous activist groups and rappers (Lupe Fiasco) have spoken out about the violence in Chicago but because it's young black men killing each other off, people don't care.
That video showing Martin fighting in the boxing gloves proves nothing. At OU white guys in the dorms would have boxing matches with gloves on in the main rooms in the halls, exactly the same style as that video. So that proves nothing. Also at the people (internet, maybe not here) claiming he's a thug, I guess because I'm 6'2", have tattoos, and self medicate I'm a thug and my white friend is one of the most evil people in the world because he provides my "prescription".

Bigotry is still alive and prevalent in America. We are one of the only countries so preoccupied with race, where other countries are more concerned with nationality. (Races included in post just to prove a point) To me, we are all of one race, the human race.

*steps off soapbox and disappears back into the woods/beaches*

[bdoughty]

Bigotry is still alive and prevalent in America. We are one of the only countries so preoccupied with race, where other countries are more concerned with nationality.

Holy crap you could not be further from the truth. In soccer and F1 racing alone in Europe you see so many racist things at stadiums that would never happen in the US. Hell do a search on Spain and Racism and prepare to have your mind blown. While you are at it do Lewis Hamilton and racism.

Jozy Altidore, one of our national players faced it earlier this year playing a Dutch team.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2013/jan/30/jozy-altidore-racist-monkey-video

Jozy Altidore is the man, on and off the pitch.

[Escobar]

Holy crap you could not be further from the truth. In soccer and F1 racing alone in Europe you see so many racist things at stadiums that would never happen in the US. Hell do a search on Spain and Racism and prepare to have your mind blown. While you are at it do Lewis Hamilton and racism.[/video]
Jozy Altidore is the man, on and off the pitch.

Forgot about the soccer stuff. I remember something happened last year at a national match, not sure which one though. Maybe world championships. Most of that nationality stuff comes from a discussion I had with one of my cousins. His dad is European and he has half-brothers and sisters in Belgium and either France or Germany. He was telling me about how when he went over there people didn't really say white or black, they said Belgian, French, or American.

[bdoughty]

Forgot about the soccer stuff. I remember something happened last year at a national match, not sure which one though. Maybe world championships. Most of that nationality stuff comes from a discussion I had with one of my cousins. His dad is European and he has half-brothers and sisters in Belgium and either France or Germany. He was telling me about how when he went over there people didn't really say white or black, they said Belgian, French, or American.

That is to be expected, especially in Europe which just a touch larger than the US but has 52 different countries. When you cross a state line, it is just that, a line separating two American states. When you cross between European countries it can mean a completely different language and culture. Still, the race issue is just a big over there.

[AustinWolv]

That video showing Martin fighting in the boxing gloves proves nothing. At OU white guys in the dorms would have boxing matches with gloves on in the main rooms in the halls, exactly the same style as that video.
Actually he shows he was able and willing to fight, taking punches and giving punches, while the media and prosecution tried to sell him as a helpless child who was incapable of striking a person.