Penn State Football

[psuexv]

From MSNBC's Darren Rovell

The Second Mile, the Sandusky charity, had $1.22 million in contributions & grants in 2010, but filed LOSSES of $250K!

I also saw somewhere that he collected a paycheck so to speak from it. His last payment was like $50K

[JBHuskers]

I also saw somewhere that he collected a paycheck so to speak from it. His last payment was like $50K

Someone on a local show today said this is just the tip of the iceburg. We're going to hear more and probably worse things in the coming months.

[JBHuskers]

Talk about bad timing :D

On College Gameday on Saturday Corso's mic was on before they got back from break. They were showing the PSU football team and Corso says "where's that little kid" .... well he wasn't making a joke, he was asking about the kid that won a contest to get to hand Corso the mascot heads.

[bdoughty]

Prepare to throw up. 1987 Interview with NBC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/45285321#45285321

I enjoy being around children, I enjoy their enthusiasm, I have a good time with them.

[JBHuskers]

From Brett McMurphy of CBS Sports

Big Ten removes Joe Paterno's name from championship trophy

[JBHuskers]

Snoop, Eric, were you guys in on this Beer Pong game?

http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/12/penn-state-nebraska-beer-pong/

http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/11/12/1112-beer-pong-credit.jpg

[psuexv]

You know what's funny. This was right near us. Saw them playing. We were busy playing flip cup :D reliving our youth.

[cdj]

LINK: http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/14/8804779-jerry-sandusky-to-bob-costas-in-exclusive-rock-center-interview-i-shouldnt-have-showered-with-those-kids


DEVELOPING: Former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky admitted to showering and horsing around with young boys but said he is not a pedophile in an exclusive interview with Bob Costas for NBC News' Rock Center airing tonight at 10 pm/9 CT.

"I say that I am innocent of those charges," said Sandusky in a phone interview with Costas.

When asked by Costas, "Are you a pedophile," Sandusky responded "No."

Joe Paterno’s one time defensive coordinator was charged earlier this month with 40 counts of sexually abusing eight boys. He is currently free on a $100,000 bond and has denied any wrongdoing. The allegations date back to 1994, according to a grand jury report. A grand jury report detailed claims of alleged sexual encounters with young boys in Sandusky's home, hotels and Penn State locker rooms.

"I could say that I have done some of those things. I have horsed around with kids I have showered after workouts. I have hugged them and I have touched their legs without intent of sexual contact," said Sandusky.

When pressed by Costas about what Sandusky was willing to concede that he'd done was wrong, Sandusky said, "I shouldn't have showered with those kids."

The scandal has tarnished the reputation of the once heralded football program, leading to the departure of coaching legend Paterno and three other university officials. It’s also left students and residents of State College, Penn., shocked.

The sight of the 67-year-old Sandusky in handcuffs is hard to reconcile with his public image of a devoted father of six adopted kids who founded a charity to help at risk youth. That charity, The Second Mile, has also come under fire.

All of the alleged sex abuse victims met Sandusky through their participation in The Second Mile. Sandusky founded the charity in 1977 as a group foster home for troubled boys. It spawned into a non-profit organization that has raised millions of dollars to help young boys and girls. Today, Chief Executive Officer Jack Raykovitz’s resignation was announced by the non-profit organization’s board of directors. Grand jury testimony alleges that Raykovitz was aware of at least one of the allegations against Sandusky.

In an NBC News interview from 1987, Sandusky joked that he started The Second Mile because he was a “frustrated playground director.”

“I enjoy being around children. I enjoy their enthusiasm. I just have a good time with them,” Sandusky said.

Sandusky gave up his day to day duties at the organization in 2010. By that time, at least two people had allegedly witnessed Sandusky sexually abusing two different boys in showers on Penn State’s campus, according to a grand jury report.

While Sandusky retired as a coach at Pennsylvania State University in 1999, he continued to have access to Penn State’s facilities. In 2002, he was banned from bringing minors to campus athletic facilities after then graduate student Mike McQueary allegedly witnessed Sandusky molesting a boy, according to the grand jury report. The incident was never reported to police or investigated by university police. Sandusky allegedly violated the order not to bring minors to campus by bringing at least one victim to the campus after 2002, according to the grand jury report.

The alleged victims testified that they were abused in hotel rooms, Sandusky’s own home and on Penn State’s campus. Some victims testified that Sandusky would visit them frequently at their schools when they didn’t return his phone calls, according to the grand jury report.

Editor's note: Bob Costas' exclusive interview airs on Rock Center tonight at 10pm/9 CT on NBC.

In an earlier edition of this report, we mistakenly identified a location of Sandusky's alleged sexual encounters as Paterno's home. According to the grand jury report, it was Sandusky's home.

[Papa LoneStar]

Talk about bad timing :D

On College Gameday on Saturday Corso's mic was on before they got back from break. They were showing the PSU football team and Corso says "where's that little kid" .... well he wasn't making a joke, he was asking about the kid that won a contest to get to hand Corso the mascot heads.

I caught it....felt bad for laughing....lol

[bdoughty]

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/11/14/111511-news-sandusky-lawyer-teen-web/

The sad part is I am not even shocked at this point.

[psusnoop]

Interesting.....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-mc-mcqueary-email-20111115,0,1784476.story

[JBHuskers]

So, the State College Police could be in on this cover-up???

[psusnoop]

Could be, certainly sounds like something is fishy if what McQueary is saying is fact.

The thing people forget sometimes is that what we read was only grand jury report. It wasn't the whole report, not saying or leaning either way just want to now more information unlike many people and the media.

[psuexv]

So, the State College Police could be in on this cover-up???

No, State College Police and the Penn State Campus police are two separate entities.

And this statement is getting taken way out of context - McQueary wrote that he "did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police - this is Shultz, at the time his position oversaw the campus police.

[JBHuskers]

Oh so he went to the campus police.

[psusnoop]

No, State College Police and the Penn State Campus police are two separate entities.

And this statement is getting taken way out of context - McQueary wrote that he "did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police - this is Shultz, at the time his position oversaw the campus police.

What do you mean taken way out of context? Just so I understand where you are coming from.

[psusnoop]

Oh so he went to the campus police.

That is unknown yet.

[psuexv]

Oh so he went to the campus police.

The only evidence that we have right now is that he spoke with Shultz when he was talking with the AD. And Shultz oversaw the campus police. Not sure what he means in his "discussions" with police. Nothing has come out about the State College police other than that article saying they are trying to contact them.

[psuexv]

What do you mean taken way out of context? Just so I understand where you are coming from.

Just that people are saying he actually went to the authorities when he says -official at the university in charge of police - when this is Shultz and we already know he talked to him.

[psusnoop]

No, State College Police and the Penn State Campus police are two separate entities.

And this statement is getting taken way out of context - McQueary wrote that he "did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police - this is Shultz, at the time his position oversaw the campus police.


Just that people are saying he actually went to the authorities when he says -official at the university in charge of police - when this is Shultz and we already know he talked to him.

I think McQueary if what he says turns out to be factual is trying to get his side of the story out, can't blame him given the position he is in.

The part that is different then what we have read in the summary of the grand jury report is what I bolded. He had "discussions with the police and with the official in charge of University Police". Just sounds like he is talking about two different people, otherwise that comment is retarded.

[cdj]

CBS Sports' Gregg Doyel has reported that he's hearing PSU will be taking down the statue of Paterno over Thanksgiving break. I don't think he has confirmed this yet, but some students are telling him that's what they have heard. (From Twitter)

[JBHuskers]

CBS Sports' Gregg Doyel has reported that he's hearing PSU will be taking down the statue of Paterno over Thanksgiving break. I don't think he has confirmed this yet, but some students are telling him that's what they have heard. (From Twitter)

Yeah I've seen a few sports people say that on Twitter today.

[psusnoop]

CBS Sports' Gregg Doyel has reported that he's hearing PSU will be taking down the statue of Paterno over Thanksgiving break. I don't think he has confirmed this yet, but some students are telling him that's what they have heard. (From Twitter)

Don't like that, I still want more facts in this case before I make a decision.

[cdj]

Don't like that, I still want more facts in this case before I make a decision.

Same here.

From the outside, I get the impression that the administration and regents at PSU are more concerned about image and reputation than anything else. That has to be at the heart of worrying about a damn statue of someone who is not at the heart of any investigation.

[SmoothPancakes]

Jesus fucking overreacting Christ Penn State. :fp:

[JBHuskers]

Before the Sandusky incident, this thread had 35 posts in it :D #276

[steelerfan]

Jesus fucking overreacting Christ Penn State. :fp:

:+1:

The good news is that a BOT member has been named AD. I'm sure he couldn't be happier. :fp:

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[psuexv]

That's just ridiculous. Completely agree CDJ, they are looking to clean the image and don't even know how dirty it is yet. Instead they should be focusing on the main issue and help out where they can.

I also saw a casino in removed Franco Harris as their spokesman because he openly supported Paterno and said the BOT released him too soon.

[psusnoop]

That's just ridiculous. Completely agree CDJ, they are looking to clean the image and don't even know how dirty it is yet. Instead they should be focusing on the main issue and help out where they can.

I also saw a casino in removed Franco Harris as their spokesman because he openly supported Paterno and said the BOT released him too soon.

Society feels like they are doing the right thing here by removing everything before knowing all the facts. Retarded!!!

[psusnoop]

:+1:

The good news is that a BOT member has been named AD. I'm sure he couldn't be happier. :fp:

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But but but he is a former PSU wrestler and football player but but but isn't he guilty as sin.......:smh: He "had" to have known......

[bdoughty]

CBS Sports' Gregg Doyel has reported that he's hearing PSU will be taking down the statue of Paterno over Thanksgiving break. I don't think he has confirmed this yet, but some students are telling him that's what they have heard. (From Twitter)


Pretty safe to call this an overreaction.

For cripes sake, we just PUT UP a statue of Barry Switzer. The man who got us put on probation. :fp:

http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/images/collegefootball/AdglVdVCQAAMudF.jpg

[JBHuskers]

...and a guy is checking out his ass :D

[JBHuskers]

I heard South Park got in on the scandal. Not a good quality vid on YouTube since Comedy Central is anal.

[morsdraconis]

I heard South Park got in on the scandal. Not a good quality vid on YouTube since Comedy Central is anal.

Yup. They TOTALLY trashed Penn State on last night's episode. Just DESTROYED them. It was hilarious.

[cdj]

An unfortunate random headline generated in NCAA Football 12... (http://www.whosay.com/darrenrovell/photos/93450)

[JBHuskers]

An unfortunate random headline generated in NCAA Football 12... (http://www.whosay.com/darrenrovell/photos/93450)

:D :D :D :D :D

[bdoughty]

An unfortunate random headline generated in NCAA Football 12... (http://www.whosay.com/darrenrovell/photos/93450)

:D Classic.

[steelerfan]

So The Worldwide Leader in Hype says that they were told of the alleged Syracuse mess in 2002. They did nothing with the information, and ran no story, because no one could corroborate the allegations.

My question is, who from ESPN is getting fired for this and who is getting arrested for covering it up?

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[psuexv]

So The Worldwide Leader in Hype says that they were told of the alleged Syracuse mess in 2002. They did nothing with the information, and ran no story, because no one could corroborate the allegations.

My question is, who from ESPN is getting fired for this and who is getting arrested for covering it up?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

:+1:

[bdoughty]

So The Worldwide Leader in Hype says that they were told of the alleged Syracuse mess in 2002. They did nothing with the information, and ran no story, because no one could corroborate the allegations.

My question is, who from ESPN is getting fired for this and who is getting arrested for covering it up?



http://oi39.tinypic.com/21cwmc5.jpg

[bdoughty]

When it rains, it pours on Joe Pa. Lung Cancer.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/college/college-football/joe-paterno-has-lung-cancer-son-says-1.3332152

[psusnoop]

Yea not good for JoePa. Wishing him the best!

[JBHuskers]

.XXX web domains are now available and Penn State is one of many businesses to snatch up multiple domains to make sure no one else gets a hold of them.

[psusnoop]

.XXX web domains are now available and Penn State is one of many businesses to snatch up multiple domains to make sure no one else gets a hold of them.

Smart thinking :nod:

[psuexv]

I really am getting confused by the whole Sandusky thing. So apparently if you did a background check on him while the investigation was going on it told you he was being investigated, but he was still allowed to be a part of the Second Mile where he supposedly got contact of all of his victims?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7326214/jerry-sandusky-denied-job-juniata-college-failing-background-check-school-says

[JBHuskers]

So Sandusky is arrested again. According to reports, word is cries of help from the basement were ignored by Sandusky's wife. :smh:

[psuexv]

So Sandusky is arrested again. According to reports, word is cries of help from the basement were ignored by Sandusky's wife. :smh:

yeah but I bet if he had a sex room downstairs that thing is soundproof :smh:

[JBHuskers]

yeah but I bet if he had a sex room downstairs that thing is soundproof :smh:

No champagne in the sex room....that's how it goes right?

[psusnoop]

:fp: :smh:

[psuexv]

No champagne in the sex room....that's how it goes right?

You mean you have to pop your own cork?

[psusnoop]

This douche bag is still parading around in PSU attire and it is pissing me off.

Bail set at a straight $250,000.

First problem with this. Within 4 weeks our current attorney general gets information about a sexual abuse case on a minor and has that person arrested and placed in jail. Our former attorney general has 2 years and doesn't file charges???? Oh yea that guy is our current Governor too :fp: Follow the money.......

[psusnoop]

And now I'm really pissed once again.

"And apparently he's already out again, but with an anklet this time and specifically ordered to go nowhere near campus."

The fucking guy lives next to a School for fucks sake. :smh:

[psuexv]

Yeah I love how it's all about him not being able to be on PSU campus, yet he lives near a school and has a sex room in his house.

[psusnoop]

Just makes zero sense and only fuels the media in this instance. This is more then PSU this is about more then kids just at PSU why not for once protect ALL KIDS around this man and keep his ass in jail till his trial.

This shit is stupid and frustrating.

[JBHuskers]

I guess age and unlikely to flee were the factors for letting him go, but with an electronic bracelet.

[psusnoop]

I guess age and unlikely to flee were the factors for letting him go, but with an electronic bracelet.

Still retarded. Sure he isn't fleeing he has all the "sights" a sick son of a bitch would want just by looking out his window :smh:

[ram29jackson]

forget it- move on...can Penn State be an under-dog to Houston ? really ? 5.5 ?

[psusnoop]

This is interesting, very interesting.

http://mobile.pennlive.com/advpenn/pm_29239/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=hB2GP4T2

[psuexv]

Here's another article to go along with that one Snoop http://www.opednews.com/articles/New-Previously-Suppressed-by-Walter-Uhler-111211-258.html

Interesting how 4 people testified to the grand jury that McQuery never told them he specifically witnessed rape, but they find McQuery's testimony credible.

This whole thing is a circus.

[psusnoop]

Here's another article to go along with that one Snoop http://www.opednews.com/articles/New-Previously-Suppressed-by-Walter-Uhler-111211-258.html

This whole thing is a circus.
You got that right :fp:

[psuexv]

LOL - Another example of media trying to get ratings.

cnnbrk: Joe Paterno's son quitting Penn State amid scandal. #pennstate http://on.cnn.com/yQoUJ3

:smh: Way to spin the fact that the new coach is eliminating the entire offensive staff.

[cdj]

Rumors that Paterno is on his death bed and the family has been summoned. (http://eye-on-college-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/34494852)

[steelerfan]

Coach Paterno has died.

Rest in Peace, JoePa. :(

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[psusnoop]

Sad day, RIP

[JeffHCross]

RIP.

I'm just glad he didn't go out on a sideline like I always thought he would.

[DariusLock]

I think this whole ordeal killed him, if he woulda been coaching he probably would have made it two more years.

Rest in peace one of the all time greats. Even 40 year old women who know nothing about sports know who Joe Paterno is.

[steelerfan]

I think this whole ordeal killed him

I agree.

The night he was let go, I told snoop, "this is going to kill him, he won't live long enough to see Sandusky go to trial."

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[DariusLock]

Old people that don't retire and keep working I think work gives them something to live for. I'll see a 65 year old retire and it's a year or two before they go down hill bad. Plus this was like 1,000,000 times more stress.

[AustinWolv]

RIP JoePa!

[JeffHCross]

Plus this was like 1,000,000 times more stress.Plus, y'know, cancer.

[steelerfan]

Plus, y'know, cancer.

Yes, however, there is a point where someone just gives up.

I don't blame him.

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[JeffHCross]

Yes, however, there is a point where someone just gives up.

I don't blame him.Agreed. And I thought, for a very long time, that Joe would either die on the sideline in the middle of a game or he would die almost immediately after retiring. And there's part of me that thinks that's what happened here. But the other part of me just looks at the fact that an 85-year old man was fighting cancer, and I'm not sure I believe he could have beaten it, even without everything else going on. Not that I doubt the heart/drive/fight of Joe Paterno, but ... cancer is one hell of an opponent, even under the best of circumstances.

[steelerfan]

Agreed. And I thought, for a very long time, that Joe would either die on the sideline in the middle of a game or he would die almost immediately after retiring. And there's part of me that thinks that's what happened here. But the other part of me just looks at the fact that an 85-year old man was fighting cancer, and I'm not sure I believe he could have beaten it, even without everything else going on. Not that I doubt the heart/drive/fight of Joe Paterno, but ... cancer is one hell of an opponent, even under the best of circumstances.

While I hear what you're saying, Coach Paterno had access to the best healthcare on the planet. Not many die so quickly with average healthcare, following a diagnosis. Cancer included. And this is from personal experience.

The man gave up. And I don't blame him (not that you do).

Coach Paterno will always have a place in my memory. Penn State, on the other hand, can eat shit.

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[steelerfan]

I have to say, it is nice to read the things being said about JoePa by guys like Bobby Bowden and Mack Brown. :)

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[psusnoop]

I have to say, it is nice to read the things being said about JoePa by guys like Bobby Bowden and Mack Brown. :)

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Coach K from Duke was really good as well. Mike Ditka another one too. I have my PSU gear on today :up:

[psusnoop]

For Joe!

[psusnoop]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12023/1205469-100.stm

Pennsylvania flags to fly at half-staff for Paterno
Monday, January 23, 2012
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

To honor the life of former Penn State University head football coach Joe Paterno, who died Sunday at 85, Gov. Tom Corbett ordered Pennsylvania flags across the commonwealth to half-staff until the funeral.

The order includes flags at the Capitol and at other commonwealth-controlled buildings and offices throughout Pennsylvania.

Funeral arrangements for Mr. Paterno were pending Monday morning.

[steelerfan]

Did anyone hear Todd Blackledge on SportsCenter? Basically, he said that the PSU Board of Trustees and the media played a part in Joe's death. That he died of a broken heart and that the BoT and media were to blame as much as the cancer and age.

Good for him! It's nice to hear someone speak their mind on this and not just pile on Coach Paterno to feed the media beast. He's absolutely right, too.

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[psusnoop]

Did anyone hear Todd Blackledge on SportsCenter? Basically, he said that the PSU Board of Trustees and the media played a part in Joe's death. That he died of a broken heart and that the BoT and media were to blame as much as the cancer and age.

Good for him! It's nice to hear someone speak their mind on this and not just pile on Coach Paterno to feed the media beast. He's absolutely right, too.

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Ditka kind of mentioned that the media was wrong in their handling of this thing too. Same with Coach K.

Kinda nice to hear people speaking up now, even if it's to late in some people's eyes.

[psusnoop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uihZb2GCpk0

[Kwizzy]

I respectfully disagree (kind of) with you guys on this one... I think that JoePa deserved what he got, although I do believe he deserved far more than a phone call. It is a sad situation all around and it is a shame that a storied & great career and life ended as it did. That being said, JoePa admitted that he didn't do enough himself. To me he needed to go immediately and that isn't the media's fault.

What he did does not erase all of the wonderful things he did in his lifetime. It did however, IMO, justify that his career was ended immediately.

The two things here are NOT mutually exclusive, JoePA was a great man who made a mistake and paid for it.

[psuexv]

I respectfully disagree (kind of) with you guys on this one... I think that JoePa deserved what he got, although I do believe he deserved far more than a phone call. It is a sad situation all around and it is a shame that a storied & great career and life ended as it did. That being said, JoePa admitted that he didn't do enough himself. To me he needed to go immediately and that isn't the media's fault.

What he did does not erase all of the wonderful things he did in his lifetime. It did however, IMO, justify that his career was ended immediately.

The two things here are NOT mutually exclusive, JoePA was a great man who made a mistake and paid for it.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. While the whole situation was terrible, Joe was a scapegoat. The media and the public jumped on Joe right from the beginning and it blew up into such a media circus that the university needed to react and firing Joe was the only thing that they could have done to semi save face. This was evident by the countless media staking out Joe's house and multiple multiple stories being written about him and yet early on in the story Sandusky, the true monster, nobody was even really talking about other than to say Joe's former assistant. He was cruising around town working out with no media following him at all. It was the PENN STATE FOOTBALL SCANDAL and not the Second Mile Scandal, where Sandusky actually got contact with these kids and it was his position with the charity that allowed him to conduct all of these terrible acts.

I do not believe the price he paid warranted his mistake. He received the information, he passed it along to higher powers and it fizzled. Should he have followed up, probably.(But at the time he trusted the men he passed it along to).

One other person that nobody even talks about is the head of the Second Mile that was told about the situation and what McQuery saw in 2002. And yet Sandusky was still allowed to be a part of the organization and have contact with the kids. I'm sorry but so many other people were more at fault than Joe, but Joe is the one that took the brunt of it. Why? Because he who is everyone knows and was the most public figure and sold the most newspapers.

[steelerfan]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. While the whole situation was terrible, Joe was a scapegoat. The media and the public jumped on Joe right from the beginning and it blew up into such a media circus that the university needed to react and firing Joe was the only thing that they could have done to semi save face. This was evident by the countless media staking out Joe's house and multiple multiple stories being written about him and yet early on in the story Sandusky, the true monster, nobody was even really talking about other than to say Joe's former assistant. He was cruising around town working out with no media following him at all. It was the PENN STATE FOOTBALL SCANDAL and not the Second Mile Scandal, where Sandusky actually got contact with these kids and it was his position with the charity that allowed him to conduct all of these terrible acts.

I do not believe the price he paid warranted his mistake. He received the information, he passed it along to higher powers and it fizzled. Should he have followed up, probably.(But at the time he trusted the men he passed it along to).

One other person that nobody even talks about is the head of the Second Mile that was told about the situation and what McQuery saw in 2002. And yet Sandusky was still allowed to be a part of the organization and have contact with the kids. I'm sorry but so many other people were more at fault than Joe, but Joe is the one that took the brunt of it. Why? Because he who is everyone knows and was the most public figure and sold the most newspapers.

:+1:

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[psusnoop]

Also Kwizzy just to touch on one part that the media themselves get so wrapped up about is the "wishes he had done more" comment. What is left out is the actual quote "in hindsight I wish I had done more" now given the man and example Joe has been i'd expect him to say exactly that and to mean it not just say it. This shouldn't be an act of admitting guilt like the media portrayed it to be.

I'll also add had his superiors not dropped the ball and reported this to the correct authorities none of this would have happened. Sure I know we have hashed this a few times but I can't get past the fact that Joe was told something of a sexual nature may have occurred as told to him by McQueary he then reported it to his bosses who should have reported it to children and youth services who then should have reported it to the police. The problem is Joe did it by the book, followed university protocol and the law as outlined (I'll edit to include after this) and yet like Eric said he was portrayed as the predator or accessory to said predator by the media and forced the BOT to act.

This was posted on fightonstate by a law enforcement officer according to the moderator there:

Title 23: Domestic Relations, section 6311:
(c) STAFF MEMBERS OF INSTITUTIONS,
ETC. — Whenever a person is required to report
under subsection (b) in the capacity as a member
of the staff of a medical or other public or
private institution, school, facility or agency,
that person shall immediately notify the person
in charge of the institution, school, facility or
agency or the designated agent of the person in
charge. Upon notification, the person in charge
or the designated agent, if any, shall assume the
responsibility and have the legal obligation to
report or cause a report to be made in accordance
with section 6313. This chapter does not
require more than one report from any such
institution, school, facility or agency.




Joe was caught in the middle of two different groups of people that should or could have done more. McQueary and his father and friend could and should have called 911 that night. Then the other group where Joe reported it to his bosses like he was supposed to but they didn't report it either. So since they dropped the ball all on their ends Joe took the fall for it.

[steelerfan]

Also Kwizzy just to touch on one part that the media themselves get so wrapped up about is the "wishes he had done more" comment. What is left out is the actual quote "in hindsight I wish I had done more" now given the man and example Joe has been i'd expect him to say exactly that and to mean it not just say it. This shouldn't be an act of admitting guilt like the media portrayed it to be.

I'll also add had his superiors not dropped the ball and reported this to the correct authorities none of this would have happened. Sure I know we have hashed this a few times but I can't get past the fact that Joe was told something of a sexual nature may have occurred as told to him by McQueary he then reported it to his bosses who should have reported it to children and youth services who then should have reported it to the police. The problem is Joe did it by the book, followed university protocol and the law as outlined (I'll edit to include after this) and yet like Eric said he was portrayed as the predator or accessory to said predator by the media and forced the BOT to act.

This was posted on fightonstate by a law enforcement officer according to the moderator there:

Title 23: Domestic Relations, section 6311:
(c) STAFF MEMBERS OF INSTITUTIONS,
ETC. — Whenever a person is required to report
under subsection (b) in the capacity as a member
of the staff of a medical or other public or
private institution, school, facility or agency,
that person shall immediately notify the person
in charge of the institution, school, facility or
agency or the designated agent of the person in
charge. Upon notification, the person in charge
or the designated agent, if any, shall assume the
responsibility and have the legal obligation to
report or cause a report to be made in accordance
with section 6313. This chapter does not
require more than one report from any such
institution, school, facility or agency.




Joe was caught in the middle of two different groups of people that should or could have done more. McQueary and his father and friend could and should have called 911 that night. Then the other group where Joe reported it to his bosses like he was supposed to but they didn't report it either. So since they dropped the ball all on their ends Joe took the fall for it.

:+1:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

[psuexv]

Well said Snoop. By all means I'm not trying to remove Joe from making a mistake, he did in a sense. He trusted others to act accordingly and possibly failed a moral obligation to follow up. But the shit stormed that he endured was what upsets me. I guarantee that if it was some no name head coach at podunk state the focus would have been on the person committing the crime. Look at the Syracuse case. Why aren't people at ESPN losing their jobs and reputations being drug through the dirt?

[psusnoop]

Well said Snoop. By all means I'm not trying to remove Joe from making a mistake, he did in a sense. He trusted others to act accordingly and possibly failed a moral obligation to follow up. But the shit stormed that he endured was what upsets me. I guarantee that if it was some no name head coach at podunk state the focus would have been on the person committing the crime. Look at the Syracuse case. Why aren't people at ESPN losing their jobs and reputations being drug through the dirt?

At ESPN or any other media outlet these days there jobs are not to cover the news their job is to create the news they want you to believe. They have the ability to leave out or misquote or simple misstate things without having to answer to anyone. Makes reporting "journalism (I say that very loosely)" very easy these days.

[Deuce]

At ESPN or any other media outlet these days there jobs are not to cover the news their job is to create the news they want you to believe. They have the ability to leave out or misquote or simple misstate things without having to answer to anyone. Makes reporting "journalism (I say that very loosely)" very easy these days.

This is true of all media these days. It's one of my biggest complaints about our society. They are not telling the truth. They are selling ad time. ...there is no money in the truth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[psusnoop]

This is true of all media these days. It's one of my biggest complaints about our society. They are not telling the truth. They are selling ad time. ...there is no money in the truth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly, it's a shame really.

[Kwizzy]

Not trying to say the media doesn't have it's motives by any means. Bottom line to me, and to most people who are not Penn St fans... Joe Pa had several chances to do more than he did to ensure more children were not hurt and he didn't. Now he's not the only one who didn't, McQuery is at the top of my personal shit list for not ending it all in that shower, but he is the face of that institution and he had more than enough info to ensure that it stopped and yet he did the legal minimum.

I understand the speed and manner in which this happened is a direct result of the media's coverage, but in the end this is what he deserved IMO. You will never convince me that he deserved a pass when you reasonably look at the shit that was going on AFTER he had kicked it up the ladder and NOTHING happened.

For the record, I am not implying that Joe Pa is a POS, or a bad person, or even remotely the biggest offender in this situation. Simply put, he made a bad mistake and IMO (and most people's opinions) that mistake was severe enough to warrant him losing his job.

[Kwizzy]

By all means I'm not trying to remove Joe from making a mistake, he did in a sense

This is I think where the majority of our disagreement lies IMO... There are no 2 ways about it, he made a HUGE mistake. Plain and simple.

[psusnoop]

You will never convince me that he deserved a pass when you reasonably look at the shit that was going on AFTER he had kicked it up the ladder and NOTHING happened..

Discussing this any further just wouldn't make any sense, seems we agree to disagree.

[Kwizzy]

Discussing this any further just wouldn't make any sense, seems we agree to disagree.

Fair enough... :D

[psusnoop]

:D

[JBHuskers]

eBay PULLS Joe Paterno Funeral Tickets Over Policy Violation http://bit.ly/yfnj7R

[psusnoop]

eBay PULLS Joe Paterno Funeral Tickets Over Policy Violation http://bit.ly/yfnj7R

Yeah so glad they did, what classless people trying to make a back for free tickets. I logged on and reported all that I saw :D

[steelerfan]

Here's something I thought some of you would find interesting, particularly because he ties it to the NCAA Football Franchise. I understand exactly where this guy is coming from, even though my reason(s) for "jumping ship" are a bit different than his. Below is his initial post in this series, but he has followed it up since then, if you care to read them.

http://thesteelersnat.blogspot.com/2012/01/quest-jumping-ship.html

[SmoothPancakes]

I'll say, that's at least an interesting way of doing it.

[JeffHCross]

This didn't take long.

https://p.twimg.com/Ak8GTtlCQAAoClC.png

[JBHuskers]

Actual headline on ESPN :sick:

Accuser: Sandusky called self 'tickle monster' (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8050989/penn-state-nittany-lions-accuser-claims-jerry-sandusky-called-tickle-monster)

[ram29jackson]

Actual headline on ESPN :sick:

Accuser: Sandusky called self 'tickle monster' (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8050989/penn-state-nittany-lions-accuser-claims-jerry-sandusky-called-tickle-monster)

thats outside the field and his problem now. I just hope the QBs matured in some way,shape or form...? !

[ram29jackson]

Penn State plays Navy this year. Thats kind of a old school surprise !

[SmoothPancakes]

They've been scheduled to play for probably over 5 years now. Not really a surprise. :fp:

[steelerfan]

They've been scheduled to play for probably over 5 years now. Not really a surprise. :fp:

ram doesn't have time to follow that news. C'mon, man!

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[SmoothPancakes]

ram doesn't have time to follow that news. C'mon, man!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

My bad. :D I forgot, he's too busy jumping on different bandwagons from week to week to keep up with future scheduling.

[ram29jackson]

They've been scheduled to play for probably over 5 years now. Not really a surprise. :fp:


ram doesn't have time to follow that news. C'mon, man!

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My bad. :D I forgot, he's too busy jumping on different bandwagons from week to week to keep up with future scheduling.



:)yeah, I've got other things on my mind then a football schedule 5 fucking years from now.
I'm so happy for you smooth that you already knew that.

[NatureBoy]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xodU1FUQw0o/T-Uo5mNByiI/AAAAAAAACY8/hbM466gKh2Q/w497-h373/Capture.PNG

[souljahbill]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xodU1FUQw0o/T-Uo5mNByiI/AAAAAAAACY8/hbM466gKh2Q/w497-h373/Capture.PNG

No surprise. It's one thing to have 1 boy accuse you of stuff but when you have double digit dudes making claims, you're meat on a stick. The trial was a mere formality.

[ram29jackson]

I just hope Penn State doesnt turn into a Kent State or something and disappear

[psusnoop]

I just hope Penn State doesnt turn into a Kent State or something and disappear

One or a few idiots won't bring down or represent the true meaning of Penn State University.

[psusnoop]

Being a local, did anyone else find it weird that there were so many cheers and applause when the doors opened?

Had to love Central PA represented by the lady holding a paper plate with the word GUILTY on it :D

[SmoothPancakes]

One or a few idiots won't bring down or represent the true meaning of Penn State University.

No, but without Joe on the sidelines, granted it was only a matter of time anyways before he eventually wouldn't be on the sidelines anymore, Penn State needs to hope that their new coach was a good hire and try not to fall into a cycle of revolving coaches and mediocre or worse seasons like so many other teams.

[psusnoop]

No, but without Joe on the sidelines, granted it was only a matter of time anyways before he eventually wouldn't be on the sidelines anymore, Penn State needs to hope that their new coach was a good hire and try not to fall into a cycle of revolving coaches and mediocre or worse seasons like so many other teams.

I don't think anyone around here thinks that O'Brein will be here very long. My personal belief is we have Bill O, for 2/3 years max and then the following happens.

After talking to someone very close to things I like what he told me. Al Golden wants the PSU job but given everything surrounding the program he didn't want to be that guy to take over given the circumstances. Al wants to bring his staff and a few others that have discussed things that would be really interesting.

[CLW]

Thankfully, that ANIMAL will be put behind bars for the rest of his life.

Of course, this is hardly the end for Penn State here. I believe there are still ongoing criminal investigations as well as two perjury charges. Depending on any applicable statute of limitations University officials could be charged as well as accomplices if they knew/should have known and basically covered it up.

On the sports side of things I also wouldn't be surprised if the NCAA conducted its own investigation and I could easily see a "lack of institutional control" ruling leading to sanctions and possibly even a death penalty.

The reality is IF Penn State's athletic department officials knew what Sandusky was doing and/or should have known and turned a blind eye to it those actions are IMHO far worse than ANY college scandal that I can think of. This is far worse than paying players, recruiting violations etc...

Again IF its as bad as alleged the storm at Penn State has only just begun and this process will likely take YEARS before the dust finally settles.

[ram29jackson]

:D

my friends emails, they are Nebraska fans and heres the stuff they sent the last 24 hours :D



I thought that they were replacing the lion with the Tickle Monster? I heard that It looks kinda like the Stanford Cardinal except for it has Sandusky's face.



While the jury affirmed the horrible acts that took place, it was ten years too late because of the lack action taken by PSU administrators. As long as they clean house and strengthen their reporting policies and procedures, I will pull for them as big 10 brethren. I think theyre headed in the right direction. They should replace the nittany lion mascot with Tony the Tiger, just so people know they're serious too.





If the adopt Tony I will relax my stance a bit


I'm celebrating the guilty verdict and the coming case against Penn State. The State Attorney General refused to comment about Penn State due to the pending case. Needless to say and nothing personal Perry, I will be rooting against Penn State for a long time. I hope they get theirs for turning a blind eye to what this creep was doing and allowing him to hang around the university after they knew something. I will be pissed if the creep gets protective rights inside the prison walls. The prisoners will let him know pay back is a bitch.


and for the heck of it,one friends comment about college playoffs


Yah, I know, but what would our lives be like without Capital One Bowl Week on ESPN? It's so annoying listening to ESPN espouse the virtues of a coach's resume by saying how he has turned around a program by taking them to their first bowl in 20 years, even though their record was 6-6.

The Big 10 is scared of a playoff, and are using the Rose Bowl as a shield. They had 10 of 12 teams make bowl games last year earning close to $46.5 million. Keeping the Rose Bowl affiliation guarantees about $22.3 million of that pie. With the total bowl pie at over $259 million, that gives the Big 10 about an 18% share. The conference has sent the most teams to BCS bowls since its inception (even ahead of the SEC), thus, a nearsighted view of a playoff would suggest that the conference could lose $, or their percentage share could drop. Also, an equal share of the net earnings (revenues less bowl expeneses) from the bowls goes to the B10 league office, where I'm sure Delany is ripe to award himself a raise on an annual basis.

Establishing a playoff that guarantees that dollar amount doesn't drop and keeps growing is why we'll be left with lackluster bowls and a 4-team scenario where the title game is bid out to the highest bidder. Hopefully interest in the bowls will drop, while the "playoff" games gain more momentum.

[psusnoop]

CLW there is zero chance the NCAA would ever want to walk that fine line of getting involved in handing out punishments to institutions for criminal charges.

They have zero jurisdiction in making these kind of decisions and would never have the man power or attorneys to handle all these problems within Universities.

Yes this one is terrible and disheartening but so is murder, burglary, drug trafficking, domestic violence, and so on and so on. Just no way to handle the shear volume of cases they would face before them.

[CLW]

CLW there is zero chance the NCAA would ever want to walk that fine line of getting involved in handing out punishments to institutions for criminal charges.

They have zero jurisdiction in making these kind of decisions and would never have the man power or attorneys to handle all these problems within Universities.

Yes this one is terrible and disheartening but so is murder, burglary, drug trafficking, domestic violence, and so on and so on. Just no way to handle the shear volume of cases they would face before them.

No the NCAA cannot obviously criminally charge the university/officials (that is a job for the Commonwealth and/or U.S. gov'ts). However, they can lay the ban hammer down after a program has been involved in criminal activity/cover ups. See :Baylor: basketball

[psusnoop]

No the NCAA cannot obviously criminally charge the university/officials (that is a job for the Commonwealth and/or U.S. gov'ts). However, they can lay the ban hammer down after a program has been involved in criminal activity/cover ups. See :Baylor: basketball

But the difference is Baylor used theirs to gain an advantage to win games. This was in no way used to recruit or win games.

This article which states the difference between the two.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/16158722/guilty-at-penn-state-deserve-all-thats-coming-but-not-from-ncaa

[psuexv]

My only issue would be, why would you take action against the football team? Yes he was a former coach, but as Snoop said, it wasn't anything helping them to win games. IF there was a cover up, it was the AD, the head of police and the president. I think that if actions are taken by the NCAA it has to be against the university as a whole or the athletic department as a whole. This isn't a football issue.

[psusnoop]

Another article here that to me breaks things down better.

http://www.examiner.com/article/why-the-ncaa-will-not-slap-penn-state-with-death-penalty-or-lack-of-control

[NatureBoy]

Jail inmates taunt Sandusky with Pink Floyd anthem

After being stripped of all dignity and facing a minimum of 60 years in prison on child sex abuse convictions, it's been reported that disgraced ex-coach Jerry Sandusky was further shamed upon arriving at a Bellefonte prison by inmates taunting him with rounds of the lyric "Hey, teacher! Leave those kids alone" from "The Wall." Prisoners at the Centre County Correctional Facility were prohibited from direct communication with the former Penn State coach but could see him, and when the lights went down, they began serenading the convict with the classic Pink Floyd anthem through the walls. Sandusky is on suicide watch, and his lawyers have said they plan to appeal the guilty verdict.

http://now.msn.com/now/0624-sandusky-singing.aspx?ocid=ansnow11

[SmoothPancakes]

:D Goddamn, those prisoners are awesome. I love prison justice sometimes. :D

[psusnoop]

:smh:

[CLW]

But the difference is Baylor used theirs to gain an advantage to win games. This was in no way used to recruit or win games.

This article which states the difference between the two.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/16158722/guilty-at-penn-state-deserve-all-thats-coming-but-not-from-ncaa

I'll just say this: You don't think covering up a sex scandal can be viewed as gaining an advantage to win games? Imagine if it hadn't been covered up all those years ago and it came out that the D-Coordinator was raping boys. I think that would hurt Penn State on the recruiting trail which in turn would hurt them in winning games. I would imagine that one of the big factors many recruits/recruits parents liked about Penn State was its image as being squeaky clean. Take that away from them in the Midwest/Rust Belt and it basically becomes "The U" which might fly down on South Beach but doesn't to a large chunk of the kids Penn State has recruited in the past.

You might think it is a stretch but honestly I cannot think of any other reason why someone would cover up the fact that a man was raping/molesting children. (again this assumes it can be proven of an actual cover up or turning a blind eye to it)

[SmoothPancakes]

The rabbit hole gets even deeper.


Report: Officials exchanged emails

Former Penn State officials exchanged emails in 2001 to determine how they would deal with allegations of inappropriate behavior against Jerry Sandusky, according to a CNN report.

According to the report, emails between former Penn State officials Tim Curley, Gary Schultz and Graham Spanier show the trio initially planned to tell authorities about the allegations against Sandusky, who was convicted on 45 of 48 charges against him last week.

However, the three men opted not to alert authorities after speaking with "Joe," according to the report.

"After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps. I am having trouble with going to everyone, but the person involved," read one of the emails, according to CNN.

During the Sandusky trial, prosecutors said Schultz, a Penn State vice president, kept a secret file containing allegations of inappropriate behavior against Sandusky that directly contradicted statements Schultz made to the grand jury investigating the disgraced former defensive coordinator under longtime coach Joe Paterno.

"The commonwealth has come into possession of computer data (again, subpoenaed long ago but not received from PSU until after the charges had been filed in this case) in the form of emails between Schultz, Curley and others that contradict their testimony before the Grand Jury," the document states.

The document also states that Schultz, who also oversaw the school's police force, "created, maintained and possessed" the file.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8114416/report-former-penn-state-officials-exchanged-emails-jerry-sandusky-allegations-2001

[CLW]

The rabbit hole gets even deeper.



http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8114416/report-former-penn-state-officials-exchanged-emails-jerry-sandusky-allegations-2001

Yeah this shit smells to high heaven and just a hunch but I suspect LOTS of "higher ups" at the university knew about it and then covered it up. Lots of people should go to jail as accessories to a child molester.

[SmoothPancakes]

Yeah this shit smells to high heaven and just a hunch but I suspect LOTS of "higher ups" at the university knew about it and then covered it up. Lots of people should go to jail as accessories to a child molester.

Yeah, I'm going to assume this is not the end by far in regards to trials and court cases related to the whole issue. I have a feeling there are going to be some former and current university higher ups that could be facing charges, and as you said, should be facing charges.

[steelerfan]

If there are members of the BOT that get imprisoned, I'll be pleased.

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[psusnoop]

I'm going to try to wait till more is learned then just a clip from an email context that no one has officially seen or can speak of only to theorize the subject matter.

But whomever leaked said context certainly gained what they were looking for in gaining the publics outcry when in fact if they could just handle thing properly in this god foresaken case everyone would be on board and calling for justice anyways. I want justice, but I also want facts too. One without the other just isn't fair.

Again though, yes you can tie it into that it kept the image clean by covering it up, of that is proven to be the case. But I'm not the only one that thinks it would be an unprecedented step by the NCAA to get involved and laying out punishment for criminal activities relating to Universities.

Sure anyone can tie the LOIC into play but until more information is gathered and processed I don't see it in play given the "factual" date at present. PSU lawyers would have a field day going through history of cases which have involved criminals associated with Universities and it wouldn't be pretty. Everyone just needs to wait, be patient, and just allow the facts to come out. Once there then we can judge.

[psuexv]

Great statement by the Paterno family asking for all the emails to released, not just carefully picked snips.


From the moment the Jerry Sandusky crisis erupted, Joe Paterno patiently and persistently called for a thorough and professional investigation. He abhorred the rush to judgment that occurred last November and he spoke out forcefully for a comprehensive review that protected no one while preserving due process for everyone. Coach Paterno emphasized that the best way to serve the victims and protect the reputation of Penn State was by a total commitment to uncovering the full truth.

With the leaking of selective emails over the last few days, it is clear that someone in a position of authority is not interested in a fair or thorough investigation. To be clear, the Paterno family does not know the source or sources of these leaks. The question that needs to be asked is why this breach of confidentiality, which seeks to preempt the Freeh report and undermine the courts, is not being objected to or otherwise addressed by those in a position of authority. It should not be the responsibility of the Paterno family to call for an honest, independent investigation. Given the seriousness and complexity of this case, everyone should be demanding the full truth, not just carefully selected excerpts of certain emails.

Releasing these emails in this way is not intended to inform the discussion but to smear former Penn State officials, including Joe Paterno. The truth is Joe Paterno reported the 2001 incident promptly and fully. He was interviewed by the Grand Jury for a total of 8 minutes and told the truth to the best of his recollection. He was never interviewed by the University. He was not afforded due process and his story was never fully told. And he was never allowed to see the files and records that are now in question. In spite of these facts, however, numerous pundits and critics are exploiting these disconnected and distorted records to attack Joe Paterno.

Accordingly, the Paterno family today is calling on the Freeh Group and the Attorney General's office to immediately release all emails and records they have related to this case. The public should not have to try and piece together a story from a few records that have been selected in a calculated way to manipulate public opinion. Joe Paterno didn't fear the truth, he sought the truth. His guidance to his family and his advisors was to pursue the full truth. This is the course we have followed for 9 months. It is the course we will follow to the end.

[steelerfan]

Thanks for posting that, Eric. My stances on Coach Paterno and on the BOT and the University are well documented.

I'm not going to go into it, but nothing has changed my belief on any of it, or my opinion about any of those 3 parties.

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[psuexv]

Yeah I just want the whole story.

[steelerfan]

Yeah I just want the whole story.

Understood. Me too. I still believe that the whole story will show that my feeling/opinion will be correct.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[psusnoop]

I want the whole truth, not some agenda driven BS

[ryby6969]

Everyone involved in this is getting hammered right now.

[psusnoop]

Everyone involved in this is getting hammered right now.


I'm having a hard time with this report for many reasons as you can tell.

One thing not really related is how it has been handled. Not interviewing Mike McQueary. Leaking stuff towards the end of the investigation. Then finding out that around 2:30am this morning Deadspin.com got information about it, then seeing the transcript that they planned the site for the .pdf to crash at 9:05am which it did makes me just :smh: at everything.

It's to a point where I don't even like to talk about it because my views are clearly influenced with where I live and work which makes things a little tougher for me to accept or see the other side clearly (meaning I still don't trust the BoT and this investigating team). So it's probably best that I steer clear of commenting to be honest.

[ryby6969]

Totally understand, and this is also why I have stayed away from commenting on the subject in the past. My views will probably not be the same as most(specifically fans of PSU) so I have avoided commenting to avoid the ensuing arguments that are sure to follow. :D

[souljahbill]

Just let it play out.

[JBHuskers]

I think Joe is greatly at fault. But I also believe the Paterno family saying they were tricked by Sandusky. That's what a man errrr monster like him does. Manipulate and trick people.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[psusnoop]

Just let it play out.

LOL trying my best, I've closed twitter for the day and I'm not reading what some are posting on facebook either now :D

[CLW]

Haven't read the full report yet but from the summary it sounds like everyone to the top down at the University is to blame. As expected there were multiple opportunities to stop this A-hole and everyone looked the other way and tried their best to "keep it on the down low".

Lots of people are going to get sued (including the University itself) and probably several are going to be charged criminally for the coverup. As a PR and (probably sound legal advise) PSU should just get the checkbook out and whatever is asked for (after a brief confirmation the claim could be legit) write the check.

I wouldn't be surprised if people sued Paterno's estate civilly as well. Paterno's family should likewise get the checkbook out.

Time cures allot of things but Paterno's legacy (at least nationally) is likely ruined.

[gigemaggs99]

I really hope they get this mess figured out prior to football starting, it's annoying that any of this had to happen, but it's annoying and sickening to keep hearing about it. Punish these people and move on. Give us the whole story, everyone then puke for hours and then MOVE ON. I'm not in the Penn St bubble so I don't have this Joe is the man attitude. I am an Aggie and when BonFire fell in 1998 I "WAS" in the mind set of DUDE build it back and light that sucker up! But now, years removed, older, Father of my own kids....well Bonfire is nice but not if it means kids getting hurt or killed. There is no way it's should even be a 2nd thought. Accidents happen, learn from them and move on.

Penn St, from the sounds of it had an "accident" in the late 90s and didn't learn from it and move on, they covered it up and turned the blind eye....allowing it to continue.

I think the death penalty that SMU received was very harsh. Experts everywhere have said the NCAA should never use this again as it's taken SMU 20 years to finally get back to above 500. However, SMU paid players, that is nothing compared to this. From the sounds of it, again, I'm just on the outside looking, the football program was larger than life. They WERE the authority and seemed to call all the shots. Like it or not, Joe Paterano was the Head Coach. It's not like he just started working there, YEARS of coaching there, you would think, or hope, or like to think he had a clue what was going on under his watch. To say or lie, or whatever you want to call it, that they knew nothing like this was happening it hard to believe. It just doesn't sit right with me. The head football coach at a major university HAS to know what's going on in HIS program. This HAD to make major waves amongst everyone involved and to just say, I didn't know....or I let the other guy know...and just leave it at that...seems like that action that a HEAD football coach in charge of his program just doesn't do.

When SMU was getting in trouble, the head coach at the time, he stepped down, he didn't say, Oh wow gee really? Hmmm I didn't have anything to do with it.....he knew it was wrong, got caught and stepped down. I just seems like Joe should/could have done more.

I don't agree with the death penalty 99% of the time but if you listen to this reporters arguement...well it makes sense.

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-should-lose-football-privileges-dealth-penalty-in-wake-of-freeh-report-child-sex-abuse-071212?ocid=todfox11

If football was larger than life, larger than the authorities, enough to make janitors fear for their jobs and lively-hood, then the football program needs to be put in it's place. SMU did the same, they broke the rules, were told MULTIPLE times to stop, yet laughed in the face of authority and FINALLY the NCAA dropped the death penalty BOMB on them. Now 20 years later, I HOPE they think twice if a donation comes in from an alumni "suggesting" they pay a player. HOPEFULLY they learned from their mistakes.

I agree, it would be VERY VERY harsh, but if that's what it takes for the people INSIDE Penn St to realize, what happened there is NOT RIGHT to make them understand you HAVE to go to the police, regardless of if you might lose your job....YOU HAVE TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

I know it's taken me a while, 14 years since Bonfire fell and 12 kids were killed (hasn't taken me 14 years to come to this conclusion) but it did take 1-2 years....the risk of human life, or mental/physical torture (as is the case with Penn St) to KIDS or Adults should NEVER come after the concerns or agenda of a football program.

My wife and I are a nice meal and we see this report come over the tv. I'm not trying to start any fights or arguments but here is the MAIN problem I have with all of this.

I'm just a simple man, Married, I have a decent education, B.S. in Psychology from Texas A&M, I'm a lic Plumber in the state of Tx, I have bills and responsibilities just like every other person on the face of the planet. I have 2 wonderful kids so I understand the Parental side of this issue....that ALL being said why on God's green earth does it take an "expert" former FBI director to make the Earth shattering conclusion that "More should have been done". Why if normal folk like myself say this, it's just answered with, well you don't know all the facts, you don't know everything that's going on.....I'm sorry I'm a simple Dad, if someone is raping a kid STOP THEM REPORT THEM. It's that simple. I have NEVER had a job that is more important that that. I would rather be homeless and jobless than know I watched some kid have that done to them and then thought, well I gotta pay my cable bill first...

Is it that this is SO BIG, that MONEY, Jobs, Income for the university are so huge that it takes a man, with such a BIG title to state the obvious and finally people stop and think, WOW this guy is right, what happened there is WRONG! Why does it take a former FBI director to shock human beings back to reality that IS NOT RIGHT, you cannot rape kids!

Thanks for listening, sorry for ranting and raving...it just makes me sick to hear all of this, I mean it's even on Fox news now....It's just sickening to hear about, sickening to hear people defend Joe Paterno, hear about MANY others turning a blind eye, all because the football program was larger than life. I don't know if the death penalty is 100% the right answer, but IF it will shock them into reality, then I would think long and hard but probably recommend it. It would make me SICK to even contemplate, what if, 1 or both of my 2 boys grows up (they are only 4 and 1 now), learns and likes football, is really good, good enough to attend camps and other learning clinics, goes to Penn St and this happens to one of them? Only to be told, well we knew it was an issue but we thought it was taken care of. It shouldn't take people to think...what if it happened to MY kids, we are as adults supposed to look out for EVERY kid, they are our future.

As far as not agreeing with reports, at some point, again it took me a while too, you have to look at it from the outside. When Bonfire first fell they did a big outside-independent report it showed fault and placed blame. A big argument from the "inside" was this is Texas A&M (A=agricultural M=mechanical=engineering SMART KIDS) so how can these so-called experts really know what they are talking about...well both sides had a point, but in the end it's people getting hurt and killed, not who is smarter. In the end you have to make the prudent choice when it comes to human life.

Thanks for listening, sorry if I upset anyone with this post. I'm just expressing my opinions, ranting a lot, and hopefully Penn St will get to the bottom of this SOON and we all can learn from it and hopefully move on.

[psusnoop]

This is super long so I'm responding in parts. The 1998 inquiry was handled by the DA and police and no charges were filed. That certainly isn't covering anything up in my eyes. The issue regarding that is that Joe said he knew nothing of it, but it was reference and implied he knew otherwise according to the report. There lies the problem regarding that date. Let's let factual information be factual and not stretch it to a cover up in 1998 when in fact it wasn't.

[psusnoop]

See now I'm getting more involved then I want to here grrrrrrrr....

Ok so after u reference the 1990's you then in the next paragraph imply that JoePa knew of and allowed the rape and abuse of young children to continue without any questions?? Are u fucking kidding me, first I keep hearing these email references and joe never used email. Some will say well his secretary did and emailed for Joe. So we know this as factual data or implied again? What did Curley and Joe discuss that made Curley change his mind not to contact authorities? I have no clue nor does anyone other then Curley.

The issue I have is you implied Joe allowed this savage to do this to children willingly and knowingly and I'm just not buying it.

What I do buy is that these 4 people, Joe, Graham, Curley and Shultz really screwed the pooch here and made a horrendous decision to not get this looked into in 2001 by people with authority to see if anything criminal had taken place. Call it what you want a cover up a mistake bottom line it was a total and utter fuck up of colossal magnitudes.

[ryby6969]

The problem is you are not going to convince anyone(me included) that Joe Paterno had no idea what the other 4 men were doing. Joe Paterno WAS(and to some people still is) Penn State football and 10-15 years ago I do not see much of anything happening without him knowing about it and in most instances saying yay or ney on decisions that were made.

[psusnoop]

I'll just end this by stating that listening to twitter or any news reporters claiming this or this should be done to the football program ARE STILL MISSING THE FUCKING POINT!!!!

How about anyone that did anything criminal be punished to the fullest for justice of the victims surrounding this.

Instead you have reporters and society in all their self righteousness that feel if they don't say the harshest penalties against PSU are less of a person and them themselves guilty of not sympathizing with the victims. The irony is they are doing the exact opposite. Just once I want to hear "with all of this that has come out, here is what Penn State now has in place to protect the youth surround the University (notice I didn't say football program)"

[psusnoop]

The problem is you are not going to convince anyone(me included) that Joe Paterno had no idea what the other 4 men were doing. Joe Paterno IS Penn State football and 10-15 years ago I do not see much of anything happening without him knowing about it and in most instances saying yay or ney on decisions that were made.

I'm not debating that, I'm asking if you or anyone in the truth of truth think for one second that Joe allowed the sexual molestation of children to occur continually for 10+ years? Something doesn't add up, we the public are missing something or not getting all the facts because while I agree the decisions (which are implied joe halted curley in reporting) were not good I just can't buy that joe knew to that type of degree this was happening and allowed it to continue.

[psusnoop]

Lolol, ok I gotta stop before I snap a blood vessel in disgust for this day and the handling of this tragedy.

[ryby6969]

Do you think parents of child molesters feel the same way you do about there kids when they first find out? Sorry snoop, but I do and that is the exact reason I have stayed out of this thread until today. If this were to happen at Miami, I would not be able to be a fan of the school anymore. I would root for USF(bro-in-law's school) or another team that I may have some fondness too. I just think whether you want to believe it or not, there is just too much evidence to suggest that JoePa knew SOMETHING. And to me, if you hear anything about something like this it is your duty as a human being to do everything in your power to take care of it.(not saying you do not feel the same way)

[psusnoop]

Do you think parents of child molesters feel the same way you do about there kids when they first find out? Sorry snoop, but I do and that is the exact reason I have stayed out of this thread until today. If this were to happen at Miami, I would not be able to be a fan of the school anymore. I would root for USF(bro-in-law's school) or another team that I may have some fondness too. I just think whether you want to believe it or not, there is just too much evidence to suggest that JoePa knew SOMETHING. And to me, if you hear anything about something like this it is your duty as a human being to do everything in your power to take care of it.(not saying you do not feel the same way)

I do feel the same way, I want justice for each and every victim and want all the facts to come out too which is debatable too.

I root for the players and team not the administration. I couldn't see myself root for another team like I do PSU.

[ryby6969]

In a case like this, I doubt we ever get all the "facts". Likewise, I could not see myself rooting for another team besides the U.

[psusnoop]

The problem is when I still fight and root for psu and not wanting the NCAA to get involved in criminal issues within universities I'm seen as an apologist for the tragedy instead of a fan of a football team whose players had nothing to do with this tragedy.

The screw ups of some individuals does not make it a whole. I'm not unsympathetic to the situation, my wife knows I'll kill anyone that touches my children and it has been discussion many times at night. Given this tragedy, then recently the father in Texas that killed his daughters molester this topic has been at the top of many peoples mind. Just remember the first part of this post to get my perspective.

[psusnoop]

Likewise, I could not see myself rooting for another team besides the U.

One reason college football is so great! I'm so looking forward to the start of the season.

[ryby6969]

I am not questioning your feelings on what happened. As a father myself, I know how you feel. What I am saying is if what is in the report is true, then Paterno is no better than Sandusky and in many ways much worse. Will we ever know for sure how much Paterno knew? I highly doubt it but I just do not see a man of his stature at PSU and in the state of Penn. not knowing something.

[psusnoop]

I am not questioning your feelings on what happened. As a father myself, I know how you feel. What I am saying is if what is in the report is true, then Paterno is no better than Sandusky and in many ways much worse. Will we ever know for sure how much Paterno knew? I highly doubt it but I just do not see a man of his stature at PSU and in the state of Penn. not knowing something.

Being so close to the situation that's the part that i struggle with. How much did he know, what did he know?

This is the hardest thing to wrap my head around. My neighbor (who is still jobless since this tragedy cost him his job as speed and strength coach at PSU) can't wrap his mind around it all either and he knew Joe and everything. He knew nothing like this was happening and may I add when the report said that they interviewed most of the former staff I gotta call BS. I've been told by Jeremy that 6 coaches and both strength coaches and 2 grad assistants were not interviewed which makes it far less then most like the report stated :)

[psusnoop]

He is so pissed that he is being lumped into knowing more when he didn't and this tragedy is affecting his job resume and possibilities big time. It really hits close to home do to speak.

[psuexv]

Do you think parents of child molesters feel the same way you do about there kids when they first find out? Sorry snoop, but I do and that is the exact reason I have stayed out of this thread until today. If this were to happen at Miami, I would not be able to be a fan of the school anymore. I would root for USF(bro-in-law's school) or another team that I may have some fondness too. I just think whether you want to believe it or not, there is just too much evidence to suggest that JoePa knew SOMETHING. And to me, if you hear anything about something like this it is your duty as a human being to do everything in your power to take care of it.(not saying you do not feel the same way)

5 men do not make an entire university and all the GOOD that it has done over the past. I'm a Penn State grad, fan of all Penn State sports and huge supporter of the football team. I would never root or support any other SCHOOL. These things that came out do not tarnish my views and experiences of the INSTITUTION and the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of proud alumni that do GOOD things every single day, Penn State has the largest run student philanthropy in the country and this year alone raised over $10,000,000 for pediatric cancer or the Football team itself has a philanthropy that is 10 years in the running for raising money for Kidney Cancer.

Are my views of Joe Paterno and the 4 other men involved in this tarnished? ABSOLUTELY and I think they should face the full LEGAL ramifications that are allowed. Should the entire university be damned, in my opinion... No. Will the university itself find itself in some legal issues, probably to me that's fine. Should the football team be given the death penalty, this is the one that bothers me the most. As Snoop kind of eluded to, the main issue is this is what almost EVERY SINGLE person is talking about. Kind of like when this all broke and everyone was talking about Joe and not Sandusky, the actual monster in this whole thing. Everyone is saying, give the death penalty to the football team instead of saying...... Those 4 FUCKERS should be in jail.

Honestly I don't know where I stand on the death penalty. A lot of people are referencing SMU and USC and OSU and saying they did so less compared to PSU and got royally punished. To me these things are even comparable. All of those other issues were directly football related in paying players and giving players improper benefits which is violations of the NCAA. These things that have happened here are CRIMINAL in nature and to me don't involve playing the game of football. Some argue they were trying to protect the name of the football program but I don't completely buy that. To me there were protecting the name of the entire university and frankly I feel, kind of like you mentioned Roy, with the parents of molesters or murderers or whatever, they didn't want to believe it.

I guess my biggest thing is how is the death penalty serving any justice and punishing the people that were at fault? I'm all for punishing the people that were at fault and think they should get the fullest extent.

[psuexv]

Likewise, I could not see myself rooting for another team besides the U.

You just said you couldn't


If this were to happen at Miami, I would not be able to be a fan of the school anymore.

[CLW]

I'm not debating that, I'm asking if you or anyone in the truth of truth think for one second that Joe allowed the sexual molestation of children to occur continually for 10+ years? Something doesn't add up, we the public are missing something or not getting all the facts because while I agree the decisions (which are implied joe halted curley in reporting) were not good I just can't buy that joe knew to that type of degree this was happening and allowed it to continue.

I suppose that depends on what your definition of "allowed" means.

(1) Do I think Joe said "Go rape those boys Sandusky! Here use the shower!" Etc....? - No.

(2) Do I think Joe was given credible evidence that his assistant coach was raping boys and he did next to nothing to get to the bottom of it and didn't care enough about the allegations that he didn't fire him immediately and/or stopped letting him from hanging round the program thus enabling further rapes to occur? Yes on at least 2 occassions (1998 and 2001)

The only questions in my mind re: #2 is (1) did Sandusky (or someone else) convince Joe that these allegations were 100% not true? - I've seen no evidence to indicate that and seems rather unlikely given the other e-mails from higher ups who all but admit they know it is going on and do nothing to stop it and (2) why did Joe "allow" this to go on under his watch? - One can only speculate as Joe is gone and there are no documents (e-mails from Joe) however, given the other e-mails from everyone else in power places within PSU one can only assume Joe was on board with their intent as well which was basically to cover this up for fear of the damage it would do to the program.

Look it's ALWAYS "impossible" to prove what is in someone's head threw direct 100% evidence (absent a video tape recording the incident as it is occurring). Moreover, its ALWAYS possible to construct a theory of how someone didn't do something wrong. (i.e. Aliens came to State College and temporarily replaced the old Joe Pa with a clone Joe Pa on the days that he was informed of the rapes as the real Joe Pa would have surely put a bullet in Sandusky's head). True the report cannot rule out Aliens came to PA and temporarily abducted Joe Pa. However, "Circumstantial evidence" can be compelling/damning as well.


May 13, 1998, 2:21 p.m. Curley emailed Schultz 10 days after Victim 6 was assaulted by Sandusky in the shower."Anything new in this department? Coach is anxious to know where it stands."

Clearly Paterno in all likelyhood knew (who else could "Coach" be?) of allegations of sexual misconduct in May of 1998. Yet Sandusky continues to coach at PSU until December 28, 1999 (1 1/2 years later). Moreover, even after he "retired" he was allowed access to the program to rape boys.

Testimony before the Grand Jury:


Question to Paterno: "Other than the [2001] incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?"

Paterno: "I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it. You did mention -- I think you said something about a rumor. It may have been discussed in my presence, something else about somebody. I don't know. I don't remember, and I could not honestly say I heard a rumor."

That's probably grounds for perjury with the only issue of whether he "misremembered".

There are only two possible explanations for that testimony (1) Paterno knew of the 1998 incident and attempted to cover it up; (2) He somehow couldn't remember an allegation that he was previously aware of his assistant coach molesting children.

Now I am not privy to Paterno's mental capabilities in 2012 but unless he was suffering from mental illness/disease I find it hard to believe someone could forget an allegation that your assistant coach was molesting children. If he was suffering from mental disease/illness when did his symptoms begin and WTF was he doing coaching the football team while suffering from the disease.

It's another SAD day and for many/most PSU fans you will probably NEVER be satisfied that the "truth" has come out. We can only do the best we can with the current technology/abilities of investigators. Moreover, with most of the key players either dead and/or in jail or soon will be in jail they are NEVER going to tell you the truth.

[ryby6969]

You just said you couldn't

Yes, but if it happened at Miami I would NOT be a fan anymore. I would be ashamed of the school and what it let transpire. I never said anything about the death penalty. This goes way beyond football and should make people realize how insignificant football really is in the grand scheme of things. I do believe if these accusations are true, Paterno should be erased from the record books IMO. I made a comment because my problem is with the people who think that Paterno is the victim in all of this. He is far from the victim even if none of the accusations about him are true.

Just for the record, I am not bashing Penn State or any of its students/Alumni. One thing I will say though, it makes me feel bad as a human that there are people out there who would worry more about a Football Program and their "reputation" rather than the well being of children.(not you guys, the 4+ people involved)

[psusnoop]

CLW I gotta say this again regarding the 98 incident, No way Joe covered it up unless you think the police and DA were completely puppets in this because they are the ones that didn't file charges here. Not Joe not reporting something.

Hey maybe he knew maybe he didn't. Misremembering worked well for someone else recently :D I kid I kid.

[ryby6969]

CLW I gotta say this again regarding the 98 incident, No way Joe covered it up unless you think the police and DA were completely puppets in this because they are the ones that didn't file charges here. Not Joe not reporting something.

Hey maybe he knew maybe he didn't. Misremembering worked well for someone else recently :D I kid I kid.


Enough of this depressing shit, get your ass on NCAA so I can whip it! :D

[psusnoop]

Another thing to remember during this 2001 stuff is the horrendous record of psu those surrounding years. Just another sick twist to all this mess.

Weird thing to add to all of this is the attempted firing of Joe by Spanier and the BoT in the early 2000's and him telling them to pound sand. Many around here always felt he had something on the BoT and Spanier and some thought this may be it. While it doesn't appear to be the case we will never know for sure since Joe is gone.

[psusnoop]

Enough of this depressing shit, get your ass on NCAA so I can whip it! :D

Funny hahah no kidding I just feel so obligated to make sure the facts stay facts like the 98 incident :D

I've been fishing with the kids since 330pm (and following the boards and emails) while trying to get away from this it's tough though.

[psusnoop]

5 men do not make an entire university and all the GOOD that it has done over the past. I'm a Penn State grad, fan of all Penn State sports and huge supporter of the football team. I would never root or support any other SCHOOL. These things that came out do not tarnish my views and experiences of the INSTITUTION and the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of proud alumni that do GOOD things every single day, Penn State has the largest run student philanthropy in the country and this year alone raised over $10,000,000 for pediatric cancer or the Football team itself has a philanthropy that is 10 years in the running for raising money for Kidney Cancer.

Are my views of Joe Paterno and the 4 other men involved in this tarnished? ABSOLUTELY and I think they should face the full LEGAL ramifications that are allowed. Should the entire university be damned, in my opinion... No. Will the university itself find itself in some legal issues, probably to me that's fine. Should the football team be given the death penalty, this is the one that bothers me the most. As Snoop kind of eluded to, the main issue is this is what almost EVERY SINGLE person is talking about. Kind of like when this all broke and everyone was talking about Joe and not Sandusky, the actual monster in this whole thing. Everyone is saying, give the death penalty to the football team instead of saying...... Those 4 FUCKERS should be in jail.

Honestly I don't know where I stand on the death penalty. A lot of people are referencing SMU and USC and OSU and saying they did so less compared to PSU and got royally punished. To me these things are even comparable. All of those other issues were directly football related in paying players and giving players improper benefits which is violations of the NCAA. These things that have happened here are CRIMINAL in nature and to me don't involve playing the game of football. Some argue they were trying to protect the name of the football program but I don't completely buy that. To me there were protecting the name of the entire university and frankly I feel, kind of like you mentioned Roy, with the parents of molesters or murderers or whatever, they didn't want to believe it.

I guess my biggest thing is how is the death penalty serving any justice and punishing the people that were at fault? I'm all for punishing the people that were at fault and think they should get the fullest extent.

Well said :+1: :clap:

[CLW]

CLW I gotta say this again regarding the 98 incident, No way Joe covered it up unless you think the police and DA were completely puppets in this because they are the ones that didn't file charges here. Not Joe not reporting something.

Hey maybe he knew maybe he didn't. Misremembering worked well for someone else recently :D I kid I kid.

Well he certainly allowed Sandusky to coach/remain on the staff for another 1 1/2 years and then allowed him to stay around the showers for another 10+ years.

Yep and that would have to be the defense and of course it all depends on whether the jury believes the defendant or not.

[psusnoop]

Well he certainly allowed Sandusky to coach/remain on the staff for another 1 1/2 years and then allowed him to stay around the showers for another 10+ years.

Yep and that would have to be the defense and of course it all depends on whether the jury believes the defendant or not.

Completely agree and it's mind numbing to me right now, all of this is.

Like E said, psu is more then those 4 buffoons that made horrific decisions in this horrendous tragedy. Not sure how anyone can feel good about the decisions that were made.

[CLW]

Completely agree and it's mind numbing to me right now, all of this is.

Like E said, psu is more then those 4 buffoons that made horrific decisions in this horrendous tragedy. Not sure how anyone can feel good about the decisions that were made.

Agreed I hold no ill will towards the University itself (its an entity and thus cannot act on its own behalf and relies on its human/employees to act for it) or for the countless others at the University who undoubtedly contribute greatly to society.

Unfortunately, it appears that the reputation of PSU's football program was more important than that of the well being of children (at least to those in power at the relevant time frame). Several of these people will be brought to justice criminally. Several of these people (and Penn State as an institution) will be brought to justice through civil lawsuits. (all of these WILL happen its just a matter of when in my mind and the final determination of "justice" is the only remaining question there i.e. prison length and/or amount of $ to be paid to the victims).

The only thing really left to be decided is if (and if so to what extent) the football program (and possibly the whole athletics department) is punished. Honestly, I just cannot see the NCAA not laying down some form of punishment for this.

Perhaps some sort of ban and/or even a requirement that ALL/Certain % of $ generated by the football program for X period of time be donated to a well known charity that helps children that have been sexually/physically abused.

The NCAA's/college athletics as a whole's reputation has been hit hard with its rulings re: Newton; U$C; Tatoo U; One and Done Thugs; UNC Academics; Penn State sex scandal etc....

IMHO the NCAA is going to have to step it up and save the current system or it will eventually fall apart (and I'll let each individual decide whether that is a good or bad thing)

[Tarhead10]

Not being from the Pennsylvania area or the north, I still think highly of Joe Paterno and think he is still one of the greatest influences on college football in history!!! I dont think this should tarnish a man who spent his life at one university...

[ram29jackson]

Not being from the Pennsylvania area or the north, I still think highly of Joe Paterno and think he is still one of the greatest influences on college football in history!!! I dont think this should tarnish a man who spent his life at one university...

yeah, his record was clean until he was at least 70 years old.

Washing that away or saying you want no association with that is ridiculous.

he was an elderly man who made a mental mistake. I wont hate an entire schools history just for that. Life goes on, people fail. Such is life as it moves forward.

...Its Sandusky who destroyed lives . Up until Sandusky entered Paterno's life, Paterno did many great things for alot of people.



its wrong from alot of angles and alot of people are wrong for maybe not stringing Sandusky up early on. But the football team and the majority of the college dont have crap to do
with the actions of Sandusky.

[souljahbill]

So, today's debate seems to be whether the statue should stay up or come down. That's one tough call. The library name seems to be safe though.

[psuexv]

This is actually a really good piece by someone whom seems to have no ties to Penn State. Actually raises a lot of questions regarding the report. Probably 2 of the biggest things are not only did Freeh not interview McQueary, he never talked to Paterno, Curley, Shultz or Spanier. And I didn't really pick up on this but the he points out that Freeh is assuming that "Coach" in the emails back in 1998 are referring to Paterno when Sandusky was still a coach at that point and very likely could have meant him and he was interested in what the findings were.

I'm not dismissing any blame here, just thought this was a good read by a non-Penn Stater and raises some very good questions about the report itself.

http://www.johnziegler.com/editorials_details.asp?editorial=219

[psusnoop]

This is actually a really good piece by someone whom seems to have no ties to Penn State. Actually raises a lot of questions regarding the report. Probably 2 of the biggest things are not only did Freeh not interview McQueary, he never talked to Paterno, Curley, Shultz or Spanier. And I didn't really pick up on this but the he points out that Freeh is assuming that "Coach" in the emails back in 1998 are referring to Paterno when Sandusky was still a coach at that point and very likely could have meant him and he was interested in what the findings were.

I'm not dismissing any blame here, just thought this was a good read by a non-Penn Stater and raises some very good questions about the report itself.

http://www.johnziegler.com/editorials_details.asp?editorial=219

I read that this morning too, interesting.

[Tarhead10]

So, today's debate seems to be whether the statue should stay up or come down. That's one tough call. The library name seems to be safe though.

Yeah this is where the decision makers have to have the balls to stand up for a man who dedicated his life to teaching and influencing men to go on to be better humans and individuals who would raise families and contribute greatly to society.. Yeah it was sick and disgusting what Sandusky did, as a father myself I would do the same thing the father in texas did, but Paterno did so much more than just this black cloud hanging over him... This sad thing is there will never be another man to dedicate his life to one university like this man did, we dont see people like him in society anymore... I believe it should stand also for his family.. To be able to remember their father for the awesome person he was and what he stood for... How terrible would it be for your father to die and have to hear people talk terrible about him and associate him with what someone else has done...

[gigemaggs99]

I guess my biggest thing is how is the death penalty serving any justice and punishing the people that were at fault? I'm all for punishing the people that were at fault and think they should get the fullest extent.


I agree with this 100%, I think that's why I said I don't really know if the death penalty is the best "fix". It does bother me that in "real life" if you break the law YOU get punished, not your kids or someone else.

In "football life" i.e. USC they break the rules and the kids that were in jr high or high school are the ones that pay.

Reggie Bush was told to give his Heisman back. They make 2, one goes to the university for their trophy case, the other goes to the player. Once Reggie "said" he was going to give it back USC returned theirs. "Somehow" that day Reggie's was "misplaced" and has never been found.....yet the players (jr. high and high school at the time) now the current players are the ones paying for his, the universities and coaches mistakes. Makes no sense to me.

Same with SMU, Eric Dickerson, Craig James, other coaches, players they didn't really get hurt in the 20 year aftermath of the death penalty. Yeah they may have won the national title if allowed to keep going in their ways, but it's the players that came afterward that payed the price.

So thinking on it more, no the death penalty for Penn St would not fix the issue. It would not punish the people responsible, would it snap the football environment as a whole back to reality, HELL YES but it would also bring the program to it's knees and I don't like that and I think the NCAA doesn't like that idea either, this is why they have eluded to never giving that penalty out after they say what it really did to SMU. The players, coaches and administration that broke the rules at SMU have not paid nearly as bad a price as the University as a whole. I don't think this would be fair to Penn St, USC, etc...they need a better system. One where the punishment fits the crime.

I say leave the statue of Joe. Bad things happen to good people, this doesn't tarnish their entire body of life's work. Is this one a black eye for Joe, heck yes, but it doesn't define his life, if you ask me.

I think people react to the here and now. They get all upset and then later, years later they simmer down and look at the body of work over a lifetime, they don't pick it apart. Those that do always will, but I think they are the minority.

Will Sandusky ever be looked at the same, not in my eyes, he's a predator, can't change that title.

I'm just saying in the long run, I think Joe Paterno will still be mentioned along w/ the greats of college football, he may have an astrix next to his name in fine print but it shouldn't be the defining issue.

NOTE: this is just an example I'm not trying to stir things up. Look at Bill Clinton for example, my parents are discussed with him, and the Lewinsky issue, they are, were and still all fired up about it. Is it a black eye for Pres Clinton, yes. Does it define his entire years of service, not to me.

Again my parents for example...they are older of course and they are really fond of Pres Kennedy. However, I don't bring it up to them, but now that things are starting to come out and of course there wasn't the internet and mass media back then, I would hazard to guess, just from what I've heard that JFK did as much is not far more than Pres Clinton, but the older generations don't hang JFK out to dry like they do Clinton. Perhaps the issue that happened to Clinton is still too fresh.

Similar to Joe Paterno, all we here about him NOW is this bad stuff. I'm suggesting, 30-40 years from now it will be his football career they discuss, not this Sandusky road bump in his life's career.

I try and keep my "fan side" of things in perspective when it comes to college sports but sometimes it's hard when you see the "dark side" money side of things come into play. Take A&M for example when I was in high school early 90s (95 grad) A&M was slowly getting better each year...then all of a sudden they got caught paying players and lost t.v. coverage for 1 year. They year (1994) they went undefeated (10-0-1)but couldn't be in a bowl. Then it slowly has gotten worse since then. So 1 year of no tv and no bowl games makes a HUGE difference. The other issue is even though they weren't in a bowl they also couldn't share in the conference revenues gained by t.u. or other SWC teams making a bowl. They paid for it later down the line....money matters.

When I was in school at A&M one of my neighbors was a player that was paid in the year they got caught. He went on to play for the Colts, but was later cut due to injury or not fitting w/ the team, I'm not sure. I know he had a big poster in his living room of him on the colts field in a colts uni....anyways...I asked him what it was really all about. He said they used to get paid all the time for doing things. They were actually working so it wasn't like they were just getting money, but he said it was of course against the rules, but when they were offered cash they would take it. They were always told not to take checks b/c then there was a paper trail. Well a coach needed help moving a hot tub. So a couple of the players went to his house to lift the heavy stuff and they were paid, in checks. They were all told not to cash the checks but someone did.

Then later a new treasure came in, wanted to get the books in order and started noticing that 1 check had been cashed but the other check numbers where missing. So they looked into it more and found out the mistake, so A&M turned it over to the NCAA and they were punished.

This is again however a problem I have with the punishment not fitting the crime. This guy, I'm wracking my brain to remember his name was back at A&M after being cut from the Colts and he was finishing his degree through a scholarship...so he didn't really miss out on anything. It was the football program and the later players that missed out. I have no idea what the proper punishment "should be" I'm just saying it doesn't seem like they are punishing the correct people.

Maybe in big-time sports where big-time money is involved people cheat to get ahead. Maybe that's the sad truth behind it. My Dad is a tenure professor at Texas Tech, he's been there since 1990, and he laughs when he sees coaches like Mike Leach or Bobby Knight come a long and make SO MUCH money to work at the same place he does...realistically supposed to be teaching kids yet making MILLIONS per year he just shakes his head and laughs.

I find it "interesting" that coaches just "happen" to leave what looks like a really good job, then later to find out they left just in time. Take Pete Carroll from USC, Urban Meyer from Florida, Lou Holtz from Notre Dame, the list goes on and on...it just seems fishy that they leave and then the university they left gets hammered by the NCAA or their former university just can't seem to WIN like it could before.

Sorry to get off on a tangent that isn't Penn St and what they are going through. I just hope ALL the facts come out so we can all see it plain as day, make up our minds and in the end, move on.

Penn St as a football program will move on. Will it maybe take a hit for a few years, maybe...but the true fans like the psusnoop, psuexv, steelerfan, etc.. they will still cheer for THEIR team as they should.

[ram29jackson]

but the true fans like the psusnoop, psuexv, steelerfan, etc.. they will still cheer for THEIR team as they should.

:glare: Ive had the same avatar for 2 years ...and Steelerfan jumped ship :D

The NCAA better keep their mouths shut and their hands out of it. They arent necassary with all the other legal agencies doing what they do. Thats quite enough.

[JBHuskers]

Yep. I think Steelerfan chose Notre Dame of all schools :fp:

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[SmoothPancakes]

Jumping in this momentarily, I was listening to Fox Sports last night at work (our AM station carries Fox Sports), and another reason they are against the death penalty being used on Penn State, in addition to the many already mentioned in here, is for these victims, by now, I'm sure they want this all to end, the nonstop media and everything and just get on with their lives. If you were one of these victims, would you want to be responsible, in whatever capacity or margin, for an entire football team being slaughtered by the NCAA? Even if they aren't actually legitimately responsible, in whatever capacity, they'll sure as hell feel responsible for it happening.

It's not like Sandusky molesting young boys in the shower gave Penn State a recruiting advantage. So that aspect of anything the NCAA could do is out. Lack of institutional control, yes, you can make the case for that. But how does killing a football team with the death penalty, for one year, five years, however many years, fix anything? You're punishing a hundred current football players, thousands upon thousands of fans, and even the victims themselves by killing the team as a result of what happened to them, for the actions of one man, and the inaction of a handful other men. They had Bobby Bowden on the show last night and even he said the same thing, this isn't an NCAA matter, it's a criminal matter and it should be handled through the criminal courts.

[JBHuskers]

Any kind of athletic penalties should not happen.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[CLW]

This is actually a really good piece by someone whom seems to have no ties to Penn State. Actually raises a lot of questions regarding the report. Probably 2 of the biggest things are not only did Freeh not interview McQueary, he never talked to Paterno, Curley, Shultz or Spanier. And I didn't really pick up on this but the he points out that Freeh is assuming that "Coach" in the emails back in 1998 are referring to Paterno when Sandusky was still a coach at that point and very likely could have meant him and he was interested in what the findings were.

I'm not dismissing any blame here, just thought this was a good read by a non-Penn Stater and raises some very good questions about the report itself.

http://www.johnziegler.com/editorials_details.asp?editorial=219


I read that this morning too, interesting.

That certainly is plausible although if it is in fact true. (We will of course NEVER know) However assuming arguendo it where true, WTF were these higher ups doing discussing with Sandusky an ongoing investigation into whether Sandusky was in fact a sexual predator? We will never know but if push comes to shove I suspect the parties involved in the e-mails will say they were referring to Paterno b/c it looks "less bad" than if they were talking to Sandusky about the ongoing investigation.

Moreover, you still have the 01 incident where we know Paterno was informed by an eye witness of a sexual assault.

You guys have presented one side of the "no death penalty" argument (i.e. it harms "innocent" people). Although, I can make an argument that NOONE in the program is 100% innocent I'll assume for the sake of argument that is largely true.

The other side in support of NCAA punishment is it serves as notice and a deterant to other schools. IF you cover up something this heinous you WILL be caught and you WILL be PUNISHED and the punishment for the cover up is going to be MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than had you reported/stopped the issue a.s.a.p.

[Kwizzy]

I guess I disagree that NOTHING should happen to the football team. By no means do I think the death penalty is warranted or anything even remotely that severe. Also, I would NOT argue that any NCAA sanctions/penalties would be for the purpose of helping the victims or anything that noble (the court rulings will hopefully serve that purpose).

I just think that the culture of protecting the football program is the reason all of this went on. Without pointing the blame at any one person, this was a systematic failure that happened because the people in power believed that protecting the football program & a great coach's legacy was more important than stepping forward & doing the right thing. Plain and simple. To me, there must be some kind of penalty. While I do not know what that punishment should be, I believe something must be done. The suggestion that perhaps a chunk of athletic department revenue be directed towards a charity for a cpl years seems like an interesting possibility... Just my opinion.

[steelerfan]

:glare: Ive had the same avatar for 2 years ...and Steelerfan jumped ship :D

I never had a Penn State avatar, numbnuts.

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[ram29jackson]

I never had a Penn State avatar, numbnuts.

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:D that wasnt my pointless point to begin with...Mr. sleepy balls :D

[steelerfan]

:D that wasnt my pointless point to begin with...Mr. sleepy balls :D

:fp:

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[SmoothPancakes]

Alright, alright, lets get things back on track here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn0WdJx-Wkw

[souljahbill]

:D that wasnt my pointless point to begin with...Mr. sleepy balls :D

LMAO!

Mr. Sleepy Balls.

That shit is funny!

[psuexv]

So apparently Louis Freeh who investigated the PSU "cover up" is involved in an investigated cover-up when he was head of the FBI :fp: How am I supposed to find this guy credible now.

http://www.businessinsider.com/penn-state-investigator-louis-freeh-accused-of-heading-a-massive-cover-up-as-director-of-fbi-2012-7?utm_source=twbutton&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=law

[psuexv]

I guess I disagree that NOTHING should happen to the football team. By no means do I think the death penalty is warranted or anything even remotely that severe. Also, I would NOT argue that any NCAA sanctions/penalties would be for the purpose of helping the victims or anything that noble (the court rulings will hopefully serve that purpose).

I just think that the culture of protecting the football program is the reason all of this went on. Without pointing the blame at any one person, this was a systematic failure that happened because the people in power believed that protecting the football program & a great coach's legacy was more important than stepping forward & doing the right thing. Plain and simple. To me, there must be some kind of penalty. While I do not know what that punishment should be, I believe something must be done. The suggestion that perhaps a chunk of athletic department revenue be directed towards a charity for a cpl years seems like an interesting possibility... Just my opinion.

Fair points Kwizzy and I completely understand that it appears this whole thing happened because of the football program. However I don't think it revolved solely around the football program. With Spanier being involved, I would also suggest it was about protecting the image of the University itself. Obviously this is purely speculation on my part, but having been around a Spanier run university since he's been here, he loved the squeaky clean image. He'd pretty much publicly stated how he hated the "party" image of the school and has put a number of things into place to try and minimize that.

[Kwizzy]

Fair points Kwizzy and I completely understand that it appears this whole thing happened because of the football program. However I don't think it revolved solely around the football program. With Spanier being involved, I would also suggest it was about protecting the image of the University itself. Obviously this is purely speculation on my part, but having been around a Spanier run university since he's been here, he loved the squeaky clean image. He'd pretty much publicly stated how he hated the "party" image of the school and has put a number of things into place to try and minimize that.

Oh, I'm sure that protecting the image of the entire University was the case, not simply the football team. However I think that when you hear of the culture that JoePa worked for these people only in title & that he was the defacto King of the University, it brings the football team to the foreground. It's really a tough and horrible situation, most especially for the kids that were hurt, but also for all of the innocent & wonderful people associated with Penn St. But like in a lot of cases, honest & decent people will and should end up paying for the sins of others.

[steelerfan]

Oh, I'm sure that protecting the image of the entire University was the case, not simply the football team. However I think that when you hear of the culture that JoePa worked for these people only in title & that he was the defacto King of the University, it brings the football team to the foreground. It's really a tough and horrible situation, most especially for the kids that were hurt, but also for all of the innocent & wonderful people associated with Penn St. But like in a lot of cases, honest & decent people will and should end up paying for the sins of others.

"honest & decent people....should end up paying for the sins of others."

WTF? You really feel that way?

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[psuexv]

I guess I also get tired of the Joe was the defacto king of the university. Was he a coaching legend, absolutely. Did he generate millions of dollars for the university and not just from football, absolutely. Did he receive preferential treatment, absolutely. But I love how people claim he ran the university. I'm not saying your stating that Kwizzy but your comment reminded me that a lot of people do say that.

Of course Joe was probably a little bit different than most coaches but I guarantee that when Nick Saban, Bobby Bowden, Pete Carroll spoke people listened too. The main difference in Joe was I would he was more involved in the academic side in the liberal arts. He donated a ton of money to the liberal arts college and it's publicly known that he had tight relationships with the deans, even the current dean spoke at his memorial.

But I guarantee that if he walked into the engineering department and barked orders they aren't listening.

It's also well known that Spanier and Joe didn't really get along. Joe didn't like him messing with football and Spanier didn't like Joe not wanting him to mess with football. Everyone always talks about how Joe told them they weren't allowed to fire him in 2004. Both Joe and Spanier confirmed that it wasn't the case. Did Joe sweet talk them, absolutely. He talked them into giving a few more years and he could turn it around, and he did. That was what he did best, he was a heck of a negotiator/recruiter whatever you want to call it.

Now that I've rambled on, it just irritates me how he has always been portrayed as he behind the scene ran the show.

[steelerfan]

To add to that, Eric, for 10+ years before this, the media liked to criticize Joe. They said he was a figurehead and that he no longer even ran the football team.

They made it sound like he was a puppet-corpse like in Weekend at Bernie's. Then this shit comes out, and he's no longer a bumbling old man, suddenly he's Tony Soprano and running everything in State College.

They'll say whatever line of bullshit it is that sells the story they're peddling.

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[psuexv]

To add to that, Eric, for 10+ years before this, the media liked to criticize Joe. They said he was a figurehead and that he no longer even ran the football team.

They made it sound like he was a puppet-corpse like in Weekend at Bernie's. Then this shit comes out, and he's no longer a bumbling old man, suddenly he's Tony Soprano and running everything in State College.

They'll say whatever line of bullshit it is that sells the story they're peddling.

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Yep

[JeffHCross]

How am I supposed to find this guy credible now. Takes one to know one? "I know it when I see it"? :D

[Tarhead10]

To add to that, Eric, for 10+ years before this, the media liked to criticize Joe. They said he was a figurehead and that he no longer even ran the football team.

They made it sound like he was a puppet-corpse like in Weekend at Bernie's. Then this shit comes out, and he's no longer a bumbling old man, suddenly he's Tony Soprano and running everything in State College.

They'll say whatever line of bullshit it is that sells the story they're peddling.

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I agree.... Also I love as soon as this crap comes out, everybody is hating on JoePa and saying that he should quit and he should be held responsible for this... All the time ESPN is throwing him under the bus and talking crap about him... Its terrible how they sucked the life out of this man and even after his death they continue to bash him and call him out for things he had no control over.... I will say this, I DIDNT THINK HE DID ANYTHING WRONG IN THE BEGINNING AND I CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THERE TARGETING THE WRONG MAN NOW... RIP JOE

[steelerfan]

I agree.... Also I love as soon as this crap comes out, everybody is hating on JoePa and saying that he should quit and he should be held responsible for this... All the time ESPN is throwing him under the bus and talking crap about him... Its terrible how they sucked the life out of this man and even after his death they continue to bash him and call him out for things he had no control over.... I will say this, I DIDNT THINK HE DID ANYTHING WRONG IN THE BEGINNING AND I CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THERE TARGETING THE WRONG MAN NOW... RIP JOE

Thanks, man. That's how I feel as well.

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[SmoothPancakes]

Jesus, talk about already having your mind made up.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8171574/jerry-sandusky-scandal-ncaa-president-mark-emmert-signals-heavy-sanctions-penn-state


Mark Emmert talks PSU scandal

NCAA president Mark Emmert has not ruled out drastically punishing Penn State football in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky scandal.

Emmert gave a candid interview Monday on PBS' "Tavis Smiley," claiming that he still is waiting for Penn State's official response to the Freeh report and acknowledging that the NCAA has not eliminated the possibility of imposing severe sanctions against the school's storied football program.

"I've never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university and hope never to see it again," Emmert said during the interview. "What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we'll have to decide.

"We'll hold in abeyance all of those decisions until we've actually decided what we want to do with the actual charges should there be any. And I don't want to take anything off the table."

Emmert gave the interview four days after Penn State released the scathing internal report by former FBI director Louis Freeh. The report concluded that late football coach Joe Paterno and other top Penn State officials concealed Sandusky's abuse of children to shield the university from bad publicity, exhibiting "callous and shocking" disregard for child victims.

Still reeling from the content of the Freeh report, Emmert did not dismiss the notion of issuing the so-called "death penalty" against Penn State, asserting that the unprecedented nature of the Sandusky scandal could warrant extreme punishment.

"This is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal like happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with," Emmert said. "This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem. There have been people that said this wasn't a football scandal.

"Well it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem."

Emmert also said that he expects to hear back from Penn State "within weeks" regarding questions the NCAA has issued about the case, including the issue of institutional control. He consistently has maintained that the NCAA will not determine whether violations occurred until receiving the school's response.

"We're in active discussions with Penn State right now, and I need to get a response back from them soon, right away," Emmert said. "And then we're going to make that determination, and then we'll see where we go here."

Earlier Monday, Penn State president Rodney Erickson vowed cooperation with further investigations but also said decisions about the future "will take time."

Erickson wrote in a message to students, faculty and staff that the eight months since Sandusky was charged have been "heart-wrenching and difficult" and said his heart was heavy for the victims.

"We can never again allow this to happen," he said, adding that the university was committed to ensuring the safety of children on campus and increasing awareness of child sex abuse and mistreatment.

Penn State also has increased its on-campus efforts to drastically change the culture. The student group that manages the area outside Beaver Stadium named "Paternoville," where students camp out for prime football tickets, has changed the name of the tent city to "Nittanyville."

The also-renamed Nittanyville Coordination Committee said Monday that student officers decided the name change would "return the focus to the overall team and the thousands of students who support it."

On its website, the student organization that runs makeshift campgrounds said that "since it was unlikely another coach would stay as long as Coach Paterno had, changing the name for each new coach would be impractical."

"Now, it's a new era of Nittany Lion football," committee president Troy Weller said in a statement released Monday. "And by changing the name to Nittanyville, we want to return the focus to the overall team and the thousands of students who support it.

"We thank the Paterno family for their gracious assistance and support over the last several years."

Attorneys for the man Erickson replaced, former Penn State president Graham Spanier, say the Freeh report "contained numerous inaccuracies and reached conclusions that are not supported by the data."

"Mr. Freeh unfairly offered up Dr. Spanier and others to those insisting upon a finding of culpability at the highest level of the university," attorneys Elizabeth Ainslie and Peter Vaira said in a statement.

A spokesman for Freeh did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The attorneys say Spanier is looking forward to the opportunity to "set the record straight."

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[souljahbill]

So these sanctions are to stop other schools from having pedophile scandals in the future?

The NCAA outta leave this alone. The court system will take care of it and JoePa is already dead physically and professionally. I understand that the scandal is bad but overreacting and throwing the book to satisfy the lynch mob is unfair.

[Kwizzy]

"honest & decent people....should end up paying for the sins of others."

WTF? You really feel that way?

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If it helps set an example that those honest and decent people cannot continue to look the other way while these vaunted figureheads do as they please(no matter what situation we're talking about) then absolutely.

Bottom line here is that Paterno knew enough & had enough pull to ensure that this did NOT continue to happen. Whether it was in '98, '01, whatever. At some point before 2012 he should have done more than kick it up the chain. Point blank and period. If you want to continue to idolize the man & turn your head away from what is clearly the case then that's your business. You'll have to excuse me and millions of others when we don't.

These two things are NOT mutually exclusive:
-JoePa was a great coach for a long time who did some wonderful things for the university and the community.
-JoePa (and others) could have EASILY done much more to prevent young boys from being visciously raped. That is his legacy, put it on his F'in tombstone.

*Edit- One more thing, everyone who is defending JoePa is acting like all of this is getting put on him. Bull-butter, there is enough blame to go around and believe me it will. That sick bastard Sandusky got his & the other administrators are going to have their trial next. The only thing JoePa is going to get is that his legacy is ruined. Poor Joe.

[CLW]

Jesus, talk about already having your mind made up.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8171574/jerry-sandusky-scandal-ncaa-president-mark-emmert-signals-heavy-sanctions-penn-state

Yep the HAMMER is coming down the ? is how hard/long is the punishment going to be. IMHO it should be something "harsh". Penn State obviously had no institutional control whatsoever when it came to its football program. In fact, they lacked so.... much control that they couldn't even stop a known child raper from hanging around the locker room for at least a decade.

Honestly, IF this case doesn't end up with a "death penalty" I cannot imagine a situation where another school program could get it short of a sports program running a for hire hit man program and covering it up for years.

Moreover, IF the NCAA does nothing (what many of you are proposing) the NCAA will face an ENORMOUS PR backlash and it isn't an institution that can afford another PR backlash at this point.

Something BIG is going to happen to Penn State football OR the NCAA is going to lose anything resembling authority/control over the inmates.

[JBHuskers]

The more I think about it, the more I think the death penalty is coming, and they will have to compensate the other institutions who will have a financial loss because of the ruling.

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[steelerfan]

I guess, Kwizzy, when you said "honest and decent people" I read it as "innocent people" which is not what you meant.

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[CLW]

The more I think about it, the more I think the death penalty is coming, and they will have to compensate the other institutions who will have a financial loss because of the ruling.

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Well I haven't thought much about the latter at not really sure a Court would go that far since it was the NCAA who forced Penn State out so the schools would have a "causation" problem in tort but it would depend on the contract if they could have a breach. Penn State might try an "act of God" defense (you cannot be held liable for breach of contract for "acts of God"). However, "acts of God" generally have to be OUTSIDE your control (war, strike, weather, etc...). This would obviously have been something in Penn State's control.

I read this somewhere else and this is really when I became convinced that Penn State deserves the death penalty in football:

Why does Penn State deserve a football program at this point given that they obviously placed their program above child molestation and cover it up and allow it to go on for over a decade?

Having a NCAA Licensed Football Program is not a right guaranteed to us under the Constitution. Rather it is a privilege, and as with any other privilege in life it can be taken away due to your past conduct. (Driver's License being taken away due to drunk driving, home taken away due to not paying mortgage/taxes, etc....)

IF the NCAA lays down the death penalty there is nothing to stop Penn State from continuing a football program. Rather they will just not be allowed to participate with / be affiliated with the NCAA.

[Kwizzy]

I guess, Kwizzy, when you said "honest and decent people" I read it as "innocent people" which is not what you meant.

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No, and I see what you mean. What I am saying is that society has a way of looking the other way when these people we hold on high are doing things, however insignificant, that they shouldn't be or are not doing the right thing. I think this is the exact situation where that bit society in the ass in a MAJOR way. This will, and IMO should, be made into an example that we as a people will not let people in these types of situations look the other way or dance around the situation simply to save face for the university, the football team, etc...

This is SO much bigger than football. This is about right and wrong, the core of who we are as human beings and it stinks that a lot of people who knew nothing and coulnd't have done a single thing to stop this are going to face the penalties for what happened but IMO it needs to be done. If JoePa of all people was capable of making such a horrible mistake then we need to stop putting these people we idolize above question and suspicion. Absolute power has and always will corrupt absolutely and no matter who we are talking about it needs to be made clear that we as a society wont tolerate this kind of thing.

End of rant. :D

[souljahbill]

I still argue that the death penalty or any heavy-handed sanctions is a complete overreaction (and yes, I know kids were molested and yes, that does sicken me). Everyone who was responsible for the crime and cover-up are either being punished or soon will be. Sandusky's gonna shower with "big boys" for the rest of his life. JoePa is dead and his reputation has been burned to the ground. The other head guys (I don't know their names) have all been fired, won't be able to ever work again, have their reputations go to shit, and will soon be sued into oblivion (not sure if any criminal charges can be brought up against them but add that if so). What does killing the Penn State football program really do? It's not like every program is going to start going, "Hey, if we're covering up any criminal mis-dealings, we need to heed Penn State and come clean." I mean, the 2001 incident was 11 years ago! There's all new people in place who, I bet, will NEVER let anything remotely close to something like this happening again. The people in charge of "the football culture" are gone. There's a new culture now. Penn State is going to be a down program for the foreseeable future because every coach can negative recruit against them. When 60 coaches come to your house saying what a shithouse Penn State is, when you're 18, that's gonna sound believable really quickly. Let this thing play out in the courts where the real "bad guys" will get their due justice. Don't go overboard because "something HAS to be done." It's going to get done.

[Kwizzy]

I still argue that the death penalty or any heavy-handed sanctions is a complete overreaction (and yes, I know kids were molested and yes, that does sicken me). Everyone who was responsible for the crime and cover-up are either being punished or soon will be. Sandusky's gonna shower with "big boys" for the rest of his life. JoePa is dead and his reputation has been burned to the ground. The other head guys (I don't know their names) have all been fired, won't be able to ever work again, have their reputations go to shit, and will soon be sued into oblivion (not sure if any criminal charges can be brought up against them but add that if so). What does killing the Penn State football program really do? It's not like every program is going to start going, "Hey, if we're covering up any criminal mis-dealings, we need to heed Penn State and come clean." I mean, the 2001 incident was 11 years ago! There's all new people in place who, I bet, will NEVER let anything remotely close to something like this happening again. The people in charge of "the football culture" are gone. There's a new culture now. Penn State is going to be a down program for the foreseeable future because every coach can negative recruit against them. When 60 coaches come to your house saying what a shithouse Penn State is, when you're 18, that's gonna sound believable really quickly. Let this thing play out in the courts where the real "bad guys" will get their due justice. Don't go overboard because "something HAS to be done." It's going to get done.

Disagree... The main reason for not doing the right thing was to protect the image of the university & the football program. What does it say if there are no official repercussions to the football program. As to the negative recruiting, it's not as big a factor as you might think:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/bwi/football/recruiting/commitments/2013

At it's base this is a case of the University not exercising proper control over it's football program. Jerry Sandusky was allowed to use the facilities and whatnot because of his former role as a football coach. I read it somewhere else, can't remember where, "If it was a chess coach we were talking about, we wouldn't be where we are..." or something like that. It all speaks to a program where football is FAR too elevated & needs to be taken down a step. I agree that the death penalty is not what is needed. I think the NCAA needs to get creative here & offer a punishment that makes this point without killing the program.

[JBHuskers]

Yeah I'm starting to lean on the side of just because all of the "main" people who were involved are gone doesn't mean the institution should go unpunished. I just don't know exactly what the punishment should be.

[souljahbill]

Besides the reputation beating its getting, the school will be punished when it's handing out cash like Halloween candy to all the victims.

I still don't see what throwing the book at the current president, administration, AD, and football staff fixes anything or equates to justice.

[Kwizzy]

Yeah I'm starting to lean on the side of just because all of the "main" people who were involved are gone doesn't mean the institution should go unpunished. I just don't know exactly what the punishment should be.

I feel that way too... I do think it's important though that the NCAA don't draw comparisons to past issues. This is a completely unique situation that is very sensitive. They've gotta come up with a punishment that shows that they are punishing the university/program for their failures in monitoring/reporting/ etc... not necessarily for the crimes committed.

Again, I just wanted to make sure that I clarify that I am not discounting those opinions I disagree with. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'm just trying to state mine as best as I can in writing.

[psuexv]

"If it was a chess coach we were talking about, we wouldn't be where we are..." or something like that.

However, if this were a chess coach. It wouldn't have the national attention either. This is national news because of the Football program, it's a double edged sword. And I can guarantee that if it were the chess coach or lacrosse coach, nobody would be talking death penalty or probably NCAA sanctions.

Look at Syracuse and that whole ordeal and that's big time Basketball program. Does anyone even know what happened in that case? I don't. It was news for awhile and then I never even heard what the outcome was, I don't believe anyone went to trial. Has the NCAA done any more investigation? Has the school itself hired anyone like PSU did to find out the truth, even though there are holes in Freeh's findings they still did an investigation.

Yes I'm a Penn State fan and obviously love my school. Do I think this should be completely swept under the table, absolutely not. Do I think the people involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, yes. Do I think the university could be punished legally or sued or whatever, yes and I feel it would be warranted. But I personally don't think it's the NCAA place to be involved.

Let's take this out of football for a second. Souljahbill, you're an athletic trainer right? Hypothetically, let's say you are prosecuted for what Jerry has done and your boss knew and also the head of the school and said nothing about it for whatever reason say your basketball team was playing in the championships or something. Would anything happen to the school, to that athletic department? Put this in any type of situation, where you work. CLW, would your law firm be held accountable if you and your boss covered up something like this?

Once again though, nobody is talking about the Second Mile either. The place where Jerry came into contact with the kids. Apparently they were notified way back when these incidents were taking place. Freeh didn't investigate them though because PSU paid him to investigate the involvement of the university officials. Shouldn't there be some governing body holding them accountable and handing out penalties? How about the fact that Jerry was under investigation for 2, yes 2 years and yet the Government Officials that were involved still allowed him to be in contact with kids within the Second Mile.

I read an article when this first broke about how he wanted to volunteer at a small college as a football coach in the area. They obviously did a background check as it's standard and were told he was under investigation, obviously weren't told for what. So he wasn't allowed to be around grown men on a football team but was allowed to have access to KIDS at the Second Mile? How about the fact that the current governor was the Pa Attorney General when the investigation got started and headed it up but still allowed Jerry to be around kids with the Second Mile.

I'm sorry but there is so much wrong in all of this and yet all people can talk about is punishing the football program and flying planes over the stadium with banners saying "take down the statue or we will"

We as Penn Staters when this broke and automatically defended our school and officials, were told to think about the kids and not your precious football program. So now we are calling for legal action against these officials who "apparently" disregarded these kids and all anyone else can focus on is the football program.

[psuexv]

Again, I just wanted to make sure that I clarify that I am not discounting those opinions I disagree with. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'm just trying to state mine as best as I can in writing.

As am I.

[psuexv]

I feel that way too... I do think it's important though that the NCAA don't draw comparisons to past issues. This is a completely unique situation that is very sensitive. They've gotta come up with a punishment that shows that they are punishing the university/program for their failures in monitoring/reporting/ etc... not necessarily for the crimes committed.


This is a very good point and I can buy into that. I guess I just get worked up as I have from the beginning that there are so many other factors and so many possible other people involved and all anyone can talk about is the football program and punishing the football program and Joe Paterno, Joe Paterno, Joe Paterno.

I can probably count on my hand the amount of times the Second Mile has been mentioned and like I said that's where he came in contact with these kids.

[psuexv]

There have obviously been people with problems with the Freeh report and some assumptions he made and what not. I do also find this interesting that Spanier was investigated when this all happened as he has high level government clearance and they did a 4 month investigation on him and I'm assuming didn't really find anything as the re-affirmed his security clearance.

http://www.wgal.com/news/susquehanna-valley/state/Graham-Spanier-statement-July-16/-/9758860/15576564/-/9jkw20z/-/index.html


The attorneys for Graham Spanier released the following statement on behalf of their client on July 16, several days after the release of the Freeh report:

"The Freeh report ignored many important facts, including the conclusions of a far more independent and thorough investigation of Dr. Graham Spanier conducted simultaneously by federal officials responsible for our national security.

Dr. Spanier has for some time held a top secret security clearance in connection with his work with the federal government. This clearance required a re-review when the Sandusky matter surfaced in November. Federal investigators then conducted a four-month investigation of their own in which they interviewed many of the same individuals the Freeh Group interviewed and other relevant individuals Freeh did not interview. At the conclusion of the investigation the government reaffirmed Dr. Spanier’s clearance.

Although Dr. Spanier told Mr. Freeh directly about the federal security investigation and its result, there is no mention of it anywhere in the Freeh report.

The Freeh report is not an independent judicial evaluation. Mr. Freeh, no longer a judge, runs a company that was retained by the Board of Trustees of the University. His report contained numerous inaccuracies and reached conclusions that are not supported by the data. Meanwhile, Mr. Freeh unfairly offered up Dr. Spanier and others to those insisting upon a finding of culpability at the highest level of the University. Mr. Freeh’s conclusions are not judicial or law enforcement pronouncements.

Dr. Spanier looks forward to the opportunity in the future to set the record straight and as we have previously said, all of our thoughts and prayers remain with the young people who are at the center of this terrible ordeal.

[psuexv]

Actually forgot to add this to the thing about the governor


How about the fact that the current governor was the Pa Attorney General when the investigation got started and headed it up but still allowed Jerry to be around kids with the Second Mile.

Not only this point above, but after he was appointed governor he has a seat of the PSU BOT, and never said a word to the board about the investigation or anything. And Corbett is definitely not a fan of Paterno or the football program. It's well known that him and Paterno did not like each other because Joe didn't back him for his election as governor.

[skipwondah33]

There have obviously been people with problems with the Freeh report and some assumptions he made and what not. I do also find this interesting that Spanier was investigated when this all happened as he has high level government clearance and they did a 4 month investigation on him and I'm assuming didn't really find anything as the re-affirmed his security clearance.

http://www.wgal.com/news/susquehanna-valley/state/Graham-Spanier-statement-July-16/-/9758860/15576564/-/9jkw20z/-/index.htmlInteresting.....

I along the lines of initial thinking of what someone posted earlier. Penn State hired a firm to do an investigation to prove it had means to fire Paterno...the rest was just I guess "extra" incentive.

Guess there will be different viewpoints depeding on which glasses you are looking from sort of speak.

[Kwizzy]

Well I guess the distinction with the Chess coach thing is that no one would consider not reporting a chess coach for doing this. They did however for a football coach because of how important it was to protect the University & football program. Esentially that is the core reason for the NCAA needing to do something IMO. If people feel that football is that important or intimidating or whatever, then if you show that these people essentially did more harm to the football program by hiding the truth then maybe you encourage people in similar situations to think about that.

Also, I guess the only reason my comments have been limited to the football program & Paterno is that those are the things that I feel are most debated here. I absolutely agree, and I don't think there's any debate, that anyone and everyone (foundations, investigating bodies, administrations, etc...) who had a hand in this needs to be investigated & if found at fault tarred & feathered.

[psusnoop]

Deleted, till I think about things longer :)

[psusnoop]

http://lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson344.html

[psusnoop]

Death Penalty= these current student athletes losing scholarships for crimes committed by 4-5 individuals. Society is willing to accept this as OK and I can't fathom a situation where that should be acceptable. These kids did not do anything wrong.

Some type of something is fine(donating proceeds to charities, schollies, bowl ban, ect.....) for punishment but any argument that has the words death penalty involved in it I'll debate forever.


http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/18/3264823/nittany-lions-find-classroom-success.html

UNIVERSITY PARK — Nearly 400 Penn State student- athletes earned a grade-point average of 3.0 or higher during the spring semester.

During the past semester, 391 student-athletes earned a GPA of 3.0 or above, which accounts for 58 percent of Penn State’s student-athletes enrolled during the spring semester. Of that number, 172 earned Dean’s List honors during the spring by posting a GPA of 3.50 or higher. The efforts resulted in a combined average GPA of 3.07 during the spring for all of Penn State’s 29 varsity sports.

Penn State also produced 108 student-athletes from 15 spring and at-large sports who earned Academic All- Big Ten honors (3.0 GPA or higher), giving the Nittany Lions 240 academic all-conference honorees in 2011-12.

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/18/3264823/nittany-lions-find-classroom-success.html#storylink=cpy

[Kwizzy]

Death Penalty= these current student athletes losing scholarships for crimes committed by 4-5 individuals. Society is willing to accept this as OK and I can't fathom a situation where that should be acceptable. These kids did not do anything wrong.

Some type of something is fine(donating proceeds to charities, schollies, bowl ban, ect.....) for punishment but any argument that has the words death penalty involved in it I'll debate forever.


http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/18/3264823/nittany-lions-find-classroom-success.html

UNIVERSITY PARK — Nearly 400 Penn State student- athletes earned a grade-point average of 3.0 or higher during the spring semester.

During the past semester, 391 student-athletes earned a GPA of 3.0 or above, which accounts for 58 percent of Penn State’s student-athletes enrolled during the spring semester. Of that number, 172 earned Dean’s List honors during the spring by posting a GPA of 3.50 or higher. The efforts resulted in a combined average GPA of 3.07 during the spring for all of Penn State’s 29 varsity sports.

Penn State also produced 108 student-athletes from 15 spring and at-large sports who earned Academic All- Big Ten honors (3.0 GPA or higher), giving the Nittany Lions 240 academic all-conference honorees in 2011-12.

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/18/3264823/nittany-lions-find-classroom-success.html#storylink=cpy

I agree with you, death penalty is way off base. Like I've said, they need to get creative here. Some kind of revenue donation is about perfect IMO.

[psusnoop]

I agree with you, death penalty is way off base. Like I've said, they need to get creative here. Some kind of revenue donation is about perfect IMO.

Completely agree and it's going to be quite the task for the NCAA and Mark Emmert to really figure things out. Just hope that they take their time and don't rush/snap decisions that need to be thought out.

[Kwizzy]

Completely agree and it's going to be quite the task for the NCAA and Mark Emmert to really figure things out. Just hope that they take their time and don't rush/snap decisions that need to be thought out.

Here's a really solid take on the whole deal.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/07/13/12/Enough-about-Paternos-statue/landing.html?blockID=739802&feedID=6858

[psuexv]

Here's a really solid take on the whole deal.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/07/13/12/Enough-about-Paternos-statue/landing.html?blockID=739802&feedID=6858

Absolutely.



We as Penn Staters when this broke and automatically defended our school and officials, were told to think about the kids and not your precious football program. So now we are calling for legal action against these officials who "apparently" disregarded these kids and all anyone else can focus on is the football program.

The only part of that I'm not completely positive on is this

One way, though not the only one, would be to make the football program a non-profit entity, with all money generated from this most lucrative of operations going to a fund for the victims, or for the ongoing fight against violence against children.

I'm not completely against it and I'm not completely sure how a non-profit would work but the football team's revenue basically supports all other sports at PSU. That and I think that they are probably already a non-profit.

[Kwizzy]

Absolutely.



The only part of that I'm not completely positive on is this


I'm not completely against it and I'm not completely sure how a non-profit would work but the football team's revenue basically supports all other sports at PSU. That and I think that they are probably already a non-profit.

While that is technically true (that it's already a non-prof.) everyone knows that is really just a way to avoid the taxes. These Athletic departments constantly defend the money spent on athletics by saying that the Athletic Department is completely self-funding and that's the point. If you make the University foot the bill for all of this, then the athletic department skates completely free and clear when they had just as big a role if not the biggest role in all of this.

Yes the revenue produced by the football program does support the rest of the teams but IMO that is the part where honest and decent people are going to bear some of the burden for others' mistakes. These teams, including the football team, are going to have to cut back some on non-essential expendetures. Maybe recruiting budget, etc... need to be downsized to help bear the burden. IMO if you go this route, & it's probably the most fair way to go, then everyone in that Athletic dept. is going to have to do more with less in order for the athletic dept. to pay it's share in all of this.

[CLW]

Death Penalty= these current student athletes losing scholarships for crimes committed by 4-5 individuals. Society is willing to accept this as OK and I can't fathom a situation where that should be acceptable. These kids did not do anything wrong.

Some type of something is fine(donating proceeds to charities, schollies, bowl ban, ect.....) for punishment but any argument that has the words death penalty involved in it I'll debate forever.


http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/18/3264823/nittany-lions-find-classroom-success.html

UNIVERSITY PARK — Nearly 400 Penn State student- athletes earned a grade-point average of 3.0 or higher during the spring semester.

During the past semester, 391 student-athletes earned a GPA of 3.0 or above, which accounts for 58 percent of Penn State’s student-athletes enrolled during the spring semester. Of that number, 172 earned Dean’s List honors during the spring by posting a GPA of 3.50 or higher. The efforts resulted in a combined average GPA of 3.07 during the spring for all of Penn State’s 29 varsity sports.

Penn State also produced 108 student-athletes from 15 spring and at-large sports who earned Academic All- Big Ten honors (3.0 GPA or higher), giving the Nittany Lions 240 academic all-conference honorees in 2011-12.

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/18/3264823/nittany-lions-find-classroom-success.html#storylink=cpy

Not True -

#1 Penn State could do the "right thing" and honor the scholarships of their student athletes even though they no longer can play NCAA football. NOTHING the NCAA would do would prohibit the university from honoring its promise to its students.

#2 Assuming arguendo that Penn State would refuse to allow the students to stay at the university on scholarship, I would imagine the NCAA would grant waiver requests and allow immediate transfers (with no sit out required) for any/all players on scholarship to transfer to any school of their choice where they could continue to play NCAA football on scholarship.

While it might be "inconvenient" no Player will be "punished" by the NCAA for the actions of the higher ups at Penn State.

[psusnoop]

Not True -

#1 Penn State could do the "right thing" and honor the scholarships of their student athletes even though they no longer can play NCAA football. NOTHING the NCAA would do would prohibit the university from honoring its promise to its students.

#2 Assuming arguendo that Penn State would refuse to allow the students to stay at the university on scholarship, I would imagine the NCAA would grant waiver requests and allow immediate transfers (with no sit out required) for any/all players on scholarship to transfer to any school of their choice where they could continue to play NCAA football on scholarship.

While it might be "inconvenient" no Player will be "punished" by the NCAA for the actions of the higher ups at Penn State.

Also not true, while in our eyes it is only an inconvenience in theirs it could resemble a punishment.

[psusnoop]

Yes the revenue produced by the football program does support the rest of the teams but IMO that is the part where honest and decent people are going to bear some of the burden for others' mistakes. These teams, including the football team, are going to have to cut back some on non-essential expendetures. Maybe recruiting budget, etc... need to be downsized to help bear the burden. IMO if you go this route, & it's probably the most fair way to go, then everyone in that Athletic dept. is going to have to do more with less in order for the athletic dept. to pay it's share in all of this.

"We've already started to impose sanctions in the sense that we took away $2.6 million of athletic department funds," Erickson said. "Surely we'll have to do more, but we're already on that road."

Erickson is the current President of PSU (was VP while Spanier was here).

Things are already rolling and get changed, revised we just need to be patient and let this settle.

[CLW]

Also not true, while in our eyes it is only an inconvenience in theirs it could resemble a punishment.


So... your admitting it wouldn't be a punishment but would "resemble" one? It's a sad day where many want to argue that we cannot punish a wrong doer (Penn State University) because it would "resemble a punishment" to "innocent" players/employees of that institution.

Look, life sometimes sucks but you do what you can with the hand you are dealt. Obviously there is no evidence that any of the current players knew about what was going on. NOONE is looking to punish the players but when you play for an institution that allows a coach to rape boys the institution MUST be punished.

Go to the real world: If my (or anyone out there in the private sector) bosses/business commit some heinous crime and get thrown in jail guess what I'm out of a job and I've gotta go out and try to find one with no help from an institution like the NCAA to make 100% sure I get the exact same deal I have now.

Your argument suggests that my bosses/firm should not be punished because it would harm innocent employees. That simply cannot be public policy as it would effectively act as a 100% shield and allow higher ups in corporations to do whatever they want regardless of the law.

[psusnoop]

So... your admitting it wouldn't be a punishment but would "resemble" one? It's a sad day where many want to argue that we cannot punish a wrong doer (Penn State University) because it would "resemble a punishment" to "innocent" players/employees of that institution.

Look, life sometimes sucks but you do what you can with the hand you are dealt. Obviously there is no evidence that any of the current players knew about what was going on. NOONE is looking to punish the players but when you play for an institution that allows a coach to rape boys the institution MUST be punished.

Go to the real world: If my (or anyone out there in the private sector) bosses/business commit some heinous crime and get thrown in jail guess what I'm out of a job and I've gotta go out and try to find one with no help from an institution like the NCAA to make 100% sure I get the exact same deal I have now.

Your argument suggests that my bosses/firm should not be punished because it would harm innocent employees. That simply cannot be public policy as it would effectively act as a 100% shield and allow higher ups in corporations to do whatever they want regardless of the law.

The problem I have with this like I've said before is many like to blame the football program, or Joe. For pete's sake there is a plan flying over my head every day while I work saying "take the statue down or we will". Who in the hell cares about a statue right now. Why is someone or a group wasting money on something like that. If you feel so strongly about making a difference donate the money (and probably a good chunk to fly a plane around for 3 hours a day) to a charity and make a damn difference in society. Quit pounding your chests about a damn statue that in due time will be taken care of anyways.

This problem is far more involved then the damn football program and what sanctions should be handed down. No one is asking questions to seek factual information on HOW this happened. What happened in 1998 that the Police, Children Youth Services, and District Attorney decided against filing charges on Jerry? Why did it take former Attorney General for Pennsylvania Tom Corbett (now Governor) so long to conduct an investigation? Surely he didn't mind taking money from the very same organization that gave Jerry access to these kids? There is no out cry from the outside to look at anything more then Joe and the damn football team and demand sanctions. I'm so tired of people being so short sided that they don't want to know the WHOLE truth.

How about our Board of Trustee's giving Louis Freeh's approval to do an investigation in which we all have been made aware of. Certainly there are questions surrounding that as well, why was the investigation done by those with ties to PSU? This should have been done by an independent firm not by a group with ties to PSU and the Second Mile.

There are still so many questions yet all we hear or read about is Joe, or Football and sanctions. I want to know just what the hell happened and make sure those that did wrong are punished and corrective actions (which are already being adopted or are currently in place) are done to prevent such a horrific act of ever happening again.

[souljahbill]

So... your admitting it wouldn't be a punishment but would "resemble" one? It's a sad day where many want to argue that we cannot punish a wrong doer (Penn State University) because it would "resemble a punishment" to "innocent" players/employees of that institution.

But is Penn State an evil doer or 4-5 people? The people in the wrong are either getting their come-up-ins or will soon enough. There's no need to slaughter an entire heard of cattle because a few are really sick. Because the president of Bank of America is out to swindle you doesn't mean the local teller is out to get you. Get the people, not the institution.

Note: I just argued against a lawyer. My argument is about to get dissected and spat back at me. :D

[Kwizzy]

CLW has a solid point here. Only in sports do people act like things should be fair. :D Just as an example: One of Nebraska's players was bitching about not being compensated for the millions of dollars in revenue that he brings in for his "company" & doesn't get a chunk of & It's like, welcome to the real world kid. I turn out millions of dollars a year in designs for my company & still live paycheck to paycheck. Your scholarship is your chunk.

Snoop I get what you're saying though but really would you expect any different? When things are all rosey & good the engineering department doesn't get a fraction of the press that the football team does. Why should it be any different when shit hits the fan? Everyone who is logical about this wants everyone responsible to get what's coming to them however that's not what makes the "news". It's the sensationalized bs that brings in viewers and reader that drives what you're going to hear about in any situation nowadays anyway. It's a sad state of affairs but it is what it is. Have you watched the new series on HBO "The Newsroom"? It's a great show that pretty much spotlights exactly that point.

[psuexv]

CLW has a solid point here. Only in sports do people act like things should be fair. :D Just as an example: One of Nebraska's players was bitching about not being compensated for the millions of dollars in revenue that he brings in for his "company" & doesn't get a chunk of & It's like, welcome to the real world kid. I turn out millions of dollars a year in designs for my company & still live paycheck to paycheck. Your scholarship is your chunk.


Yep, I know this is off topic but that's what irritates me about Pro athletes as well. Always complaining about the owners making too much money and if they don't get paid they hold out or they have a lockout. You think the employees at Microsoft see a fair share of Bill Gates' billions of dollars or the Subway employee who busts their ass during lunch hour to keep the line moving sees anymore of Subway's billions? Or how about the fact that these owners pony up hundreds of millions of dollars to buy these franchise, they should be well compensated.

[Kwizzy]

Yep, I know this is off topic but that's what irritates me about Pro athletes as well. Always complaining about the owners making too much money and if they don't get paid they hold out or they have a lockout. You think the employees at Microsoft see a fair share of Bill Gates' billions of dollars or the Subway employee who busts their ass during lunch hour to keep the line moving sees anymore of Subway's billions? Or how about the fact that these owners pony up hundreds of millions of dollars to buy these franchise, they should be well compensated.

Exactly, you're entitled to jack shit in this life. You get what you work for & earn (or in some cases what your parents earn :D ). They all need to shut up. If they don't like it they can start their own league & see how that goes.

[CLW]

But is Penn State an evil doer or 4-5 people? The people in the wrong are either getting their come-up-ins or will soon enough. There's no need to slaughter an entire heard of cattle because a few are really sick. Because the president of Bank of America is out to swindle you doesn't mean the local teller is out to get you. Get the people, not the institution.

Note: I just argued against a lawyer. My argument is about to get dissected and spat back at me. :D

The Answer (under the law) is BOTH. (one can always argue something to the contrary as a public policy argument)

An entity (corporation, charity, or in this case Penn State University) is not a living breathing thing. Instead, it can ONLY act through its employees. The law generally holds an entity responsible for its employees "bad acts" (either civilly and/or criminally) when the employee does the act in the "course and scope" of his/her employment (basically the employee acted to help the corporation as part of his/her job). The law also holds individuals responsible for these same acts. (easiest case is Sue Truck Driver and Trucking Company after 18 wheeler accident)

Here, the higher ups at Penn State University hid a child molestor to protect the University (i.e. the football program and probably the university as a whole) as part of their jobs. (note the law would likely not punish Penn State for Sandusky's conduct while he was an employee of the University since raping children didn't to my knowledge fall under his job description at Penn State) The higher ups can be held responsible civilly and criminally. However, that does not protect the entity (Penn State University). It too is a bad actor (in the eyes of the law) and is therefore subject to punishment.

In sum, the law would generally permit Penn State to be punished for the acts of those in power in the cover up. Of course, the question as to whether punish Penn State and if so to what extent is a matter of policy. The law cannot decide that. Rather it is for "the people" to decide (i.e. jury / NCAA enforcement people depending on the venue and type of punishment being discussed).

Really, Penn State could easily also be charged criminally as well for this cover up. I'd imagine there are all kinds of strings attached to Federal $ that Penn State (like all major universities) receives for things such as research.

This scandal has potentially opened up a virtually unlimited Pandora's Box of problems for the University.

[SmoothPancakes]

A quote I just read that is a major issue with how everything is being handled.


The trustees have been concerned this week that the NCAA will hand down an extreme punishment, possibly the death penalty for the football program, for the school's "loss of institutional control" in the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal.

Dealing with the statue issue, and the resignation of Garban, was needed to show the public the board was serious about "moving forward," one trustee said.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8184260/joe-paterno-statue-call-made-penn-state-nittany-lions-president

I have a feeling it's going to be the same way with the NCAA. Instead of handing out punishments or making decisions that are just and severe, but yet fair, the BoT, the NCAA, everyone is going to be leaping to this and that simply to prove to the public, the NCAA, etc that they are dealing with this, handing out punishments, and moving forward instead of trying to sweep it under the rug. The amount of public emotion tied to this story alone is enough to make any decision the NCAA or Penn State makes regarding anything related to all of this biased in an effort to save some sort of face in the wake of everything.

[JBHuskers]

Penalties announced tomorrow. Reports are no death penalty, but there will be some unprecedented penalties handed out.

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[psusnoop]

Penalties announced tomorrow. Reports are no death penalty, but there will be some unprecedented penalties handed out.

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No comment, I'll talk to you in a few hours :D

[psuexv]

No comment, I'll talk to you in a few hours :D

:+1: or after someone does an official investigation i.e. the courts or NCAA

[gigemaggs99]

The death penalty doesn't mean the current players will be screwed. They will have the opportunity to transfer without sitting out a year. See SMU.

The Death penalty or any other penalty isn't put in place to punish the current players. That's not the point. The POINT is to make the university understand that what they did was wrong.

This is just me, an outsider. I get really tired of hearing from people inside the university defend joe paterno, or say things like, well he wasn't the ONLY person involved why aren't the other people being called out. Well, b/c for the rest of the country, we don't see those other people's statues. We don't see their names on buildings. It's very nice he donated a lot of money and shared the wealth, but it doesn't make it ok or excuse what happened.

It's hard b/c this involves kids. All the other NCAA violations involve money or houses, or benefits, not kids.

I think it's also hard for the rest of the country, not the ones inside the Penn St bubble to wrap their heads around it, or the possible self imposed sanctions that the university is doing, b/c I've yet to hear an apology. I've yet to hear the University say, there was a mistake and we made a HUGE mistake.

Look at the statue coming down, people have to threat or give plane banner ultimatums for the university to take action. Why didn't they take that action on their own? It seems they are constantly reacting, not being proactive. I think a good start would to be 100% brutally honest w/ the rest of the country on how much Joe did or didn't know. How much EVERYONE knew or didn't knew, stop covering it up and only addressing things as you are forced to by public opinion or pressure.

It almost seems like they are doing the biggest case of crisis management out there. If they leak a little at a time, let us wrap our heads around it then leak a little more, this helps to keep the nation or general public from going nuts. Look at how the university reacted when they fired Joe. They had riots, turning over a tv van, kids going nuts. Can you image what would happen if they released all the information at once? It would be crazy. I'd really like to see an interview with some of those kids that were screaming on ESPN that he should never have been fired, I'd like to hear what they have to say now. Again, it seems like they are too wrapped up on the inside of things....they aren't looking at this the same way the nation is.

Has Penn St every admitted fault or issued an apology?

Maybe that will come AFTER the NCAA drops the hammer on them...again reactive....

[steelerfan]

http://img.tapatalk.com/62c401e2-3794-e472.jpg

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[JeffHCross]

The Death penalty or any other penalty isn't put in place to punish the current players. That's not the point. The POINT is to make the university understand that what they did was wrong.And, supposedly, deter others, just like any punishment in the legal system.

But, no matter what the point is, the effect is that current players and coaches get punished for something they weren't involved in. Whether or not that's the point, that's the effect.

I'm hoping the NCAA has been a little more creative and come up with a punishment that servers both as a deterrent and avoids punishing people that had nothing to do with it. Take the gate receipts from football and put them in child abuse charities, not the University coffers. Make them pay X amount from their endowment. Whatever. But don't kill the football team just for the sake of killing it. Let the community bond over the football team this September, and use that bonding as a positive.

The death penalty is not the answer.

[souljahbill]

I think this case is unique enough that showing that "we won't tolerate this" is kinda unnecessary. I'm not saying that Penn St. shouldn't pay some kind of price but handing out severe punishments sounds like a P.R. maneuver that doesn't really "fix" anything. Plus, do we really need to show that "we won't stand for this?"

[ryby6969]

I think this case is unique enough that showing that "we won't tolerate this" is kinda unnecessary. I'm not saying that Penn St. shouldn't pay some kind of price but handing out severe punishments sounds like a P.R. maneuver that doesn't really "fix" anything. Plus, do we really need to show that "we won't stand for this?"

If there were people covering it up for 10+ years because the school's "image" would be ruined, then I would say a reminder would not be the worst possible thing.

[SmoothPancakes]

Between the statue and the NCAA punishment, I still say all of this shit is being purely driven by emotion and public outrage. Decisions are being made solely to save face and appease the public right now, not to truly answer to and work past this scandal. Just like posts in this thread, one of the main points repeatedly being brought up, "think of the kids, it's about the kids, kids, kids, kids". Yes, think of the kids, but don't use the kids as a stepping stone to rushing to a judgment and potentially overreacting.

There are idiots out there who think and are saying the Penn State football program should be killed forever, dumbasses (who slightly scare me by even saying it) saying the entire Penn State campus should be carpet bombed, and then in their minds, if you don't automatically support and agree with the statue being taken down or think that the football team should be given the death penalty, suddenly you're pro-child raping/molesting. :fp:

No decisions made or penalties handed out by the NCAA will ever be fair or just, now or in the near/immediate future, because everything is being driven by emotion and public outrage, whose own judgment on things are clouded by their own outrage. People want justice now. If the public had gotten their own way in demanding immediate justice, George Martin would have been executed or strung up by a lynch mob within 3 days of the Trayvon Martin shooting. Sometimes succumbing to the public demand for immediate justice is fucking stupid. Unfortunately, that is exactly what is happening here because "think of the kids". All it takes is one person to mention the words "think of the kids" and it turns into all out vile bashing and threats of death, destruction of property, and everything else under the sun by the public.

[ryby6969]

Isn't Penn State a State University?

[psusnoop]

I have to keep deleting shit I type but again see Eric's response to mine.

[gigemaggs99]

I have to keep deleting shit I type but again see Eric's response to mine.

Agreed, I type a bunch of stuff then see steelerfan's image response.

I understand this "the public wants an answer now" stuff, I'm just having a hard time with how slow things come out. We are in the age of twitter and facebook and all types of NOW media. I'm amazed that we still don't know all the stuff. All we keep hearing is, well we want the entire story to come out. Is it b/c of massive pending legal issues they can't/won't tell us the entire truth?

The really said things is, the longer it takes for them to get everything out into the open, the longer this is going to go on. This story broke last fall, football season is about ready to start and we haven't heard the whole truth...this is going to take some time.

Sounds like some have had enough already though....http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/21/3268431/penn-state-football-de-recruit.html


I am interested to see how this plays out though. It seems like when it first came out the NCAA seemed to have the stand of this is a criminal matter for the courts and law enforcement to deal with...now they are coming back into the fray....I'd like to know what magic evidence changed their minds.

[psusnoop]

It took the NCAA what 4 years to figure out if Bush took money and then you have UNC and Miami who are still an issue. Or many many other examples where due process is given and an investigation launched yet since this is criminal the NCAA can hand out sanctions before those charged are found guilty or not guilty?

Does that make sense to anyone?

[psusnoop]

Also Webb decommitting isn't something I'm going to worry about yet. If more do then yes but not after one goes. That happens every year, just happens it also fits into what the media would like for you to read and BELIEVE.

Here is you flying purple guinea pig that sings the national anthem in Chinese. Oh why thank you very much.... In my best voice says the general public

[steelerfan]

Does that make sense to anyone?

Only to those who think, "OMG little boys were butt-raped! Do SOMETHING!"

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