Community Sliders - Balanced (Heisman)

[JeffHCross]

Difficulty: Heisman

Goal: Sweet and simple. Start at the default and make the game as balanced as possible for both HUM and CPU.

Recommended Testing Method: Play Team vs Team. That is to same, play Ohio State vs Ohio State, Alabama vs Alabama, whatever. That is fundamentally important, in my opinion, to developing balanced sliders. Don't just look for same ratings or levels ... use the same team on both sides. At the end of the game, if you can reasonably say that the difference was human play calling ... rather than stick skills or CPU cheating ... you've got a balanced set of sliders.

Slider Version: 1.0

Sliders (Bold differs from previous version, or default in case of Version 1.0)

Remember ... this is just a starting off point. Questions, concerns, and suggestions for changes ... post them below!

[morsdraconis]

Interesting. Never thought about using the same team on both sides as a way to test sliders.

As ridiculously rated as Alabama is, I'd say they're probably the team to use for these tests because they are so well balanced on both sides of the ball with one another.

[JeffHCross]

Interesting. Never thought about using the same team on both sides as a way to test sliders.

Heh ... you are by far not the first to tell me that. I came up with the idea working with Playmakers (from OS and MaddenPlanet) a few years ago. When you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Too many other variables otherwise. Even two teams that are A+, A+, A+ are going to have different Impact Players, different linemen ratings, etc.

[AustinWolv]

Played with the same two teams last night and had a 20-17 game. CPU didn't run as well as I would have liked, but the game was a lot of fun and didn't feel unfair either way.

I'll post the tweaks I did later, but they were in favor of the User to open up the human running game and adjust the CPU pass rush.

[griffin2608]

It sseems like the sliders will come down too:
increasing the CPU rushing ability
lowering the HUM Rush D

Increasing the HUM Pass Rush
Lowering the CPU Pass Block

Increasing the HUM Catch
Lowering the CPU Pass Coverage

those along with some minor changes based on user play style and skill and you will have a decent set. Penalty sliders are very sensitive in my opinion. Moving a couple of sliders especially holding, facemask, and clipping and there will be flags all over the place. For the others I haven't seen much difference.

[AustinWolv]

I would only adjust the CPU at this time for the CPU rush game and the human pass rush, not both human and CPU to start. In other words, for example, increase the CPU run blocking, but leave human rush D where it is. The thinking is that human ratings stay the same as they are playing to the player ratings, but retarding the CPU some because they are playing above their player ratings.

For human catch, I think I bumped it to 55 because at 50, they drop a lot of easy ones that they don't on AA. I think I left CPU pass coverage at 50 but will update tonight.

[griffin2608]

Good idea thanks

[AustinWolv]

Initial settings, more testing tonight.

Heisman, 8min quarters
HUM:
WR catching 55
Run blocking 60
Pass rush 60
FG accuracy 45

CPU
QB accuracy 45
Pass blocking 40
Pass coverage 40
Pass rush 40
FG power 40

[JeffHCross]

I would only adjust the CPU at this time for the CPU rush game and the human pass rush, not both human and CPU to start.

You also only want to change one at a time to limit variables. Otherwise you don't know which change caused the effect you see. You can always change both HUM and CPU Catching, for example, at the same time ... but you never want to change CPU Rush Offense and HUM Rush Defense at the same time. Too many factors at once.

I'm out of town for the weekend, everybody. The sliders participation is looking good -- I can't wait to dive into it on Monday.

[AustinWolv]

CPU FG power is still too high.....81 rated K tried a 59 yarder at a non-crucial time, then a 51 yarder. He had the distance, but was just a touch right and then a bit left. However, 94 rated K took and hit 54 and 50 yarder which is reasonable IMO, while a mid-80s kicker missed from high 40 yard range twice.
Going to try 35 for CPU FG power next.
Human FG power might drop a bit also, as my 85 rated kicker (88 KPW) can hit from 50 easily enough.

Stats:
Game1 - B school (me) against A school
Lost 9-3
I sold out to stop the run in this game as the CPU has a dominant RB. Some rattled the CPU QB who did not play well in taking sacks and scrambling for little yardage. The CPU defense which is A rated just shut down everything.

CPU rushed for 97 yards, 3.73ypc, long of 19; starting RB was at 4.6ypc on 18 carries; doesn't include sacks
CPU passing was 16-20 for 118 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT
They had 1 sack.
Human starting RB had 9 carries for 7 yards; CPU shut it down.
Human passing was 15-38 for 189 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT.
Human had 4 sacks.
CPU was 3-13 3rd down, human was 4-14.
No fumbles lost for either team.
Each team had 3 penalties for 30 yards each.
Total plays was 52 for CPU, 51 for human.

Game2 – me against same team (B school)
Lost 42-41
Took a 3 TD lead in the 2nd quarter but turnovers hurt and CPU shredded me through the air running no-huddle.
CPU QBs went 23-35 for 366 yards, 3TD, 1 INT.
CPU rushed 24 for 129 yards from the HBs with 2TD, long of 65, starter averaged 6.3ypc.
CPU had 2 sacks, plenty of hurries.
Human QBs were 21-39 for 303 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT.
Human rushing was 32 for 161 yards, 3TD, long of 61 by 1 QB, another 45 by another QB, starting RB averaged 2.3ypc.
Human had 4 sacks.
CPU was 8-15 on 3rd down, human was 7-14.
CPU and human lost 2 fumbles each.
Only penalty was human for 5 yards.
CPU ran 66 plays, human ran 71 plays.

Game3 – B school (me) against C school
Won 34-9
Didn’t play all that well, but speed difference was noticeable in the ground game and run blocking sustaining blocks. Stuffed up CPU run game pretty well, but they were still able to pass well IMO. Their pass coverage seemed a bit too good but it is late. {shrug}

CPU passing was 12-24 for 182, 1 TD, 1 INT.
CPU rushing was 23 carries for 56, long of 14 by the HBs, starter averaged 2.6ypc.
CPU had no sacks.
Human passing was 13-21 for 126 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT.
Human rushing was 37 for 272 yards, 3 TD, long of 45, starter averaged 7.8ypc
Human had 2 sacks.
CPU was 3-11 on 3rd, human was 6-13.
No fumbles lost.
CPU had 2 penalties, human had 1.
CPU ran 49 plays, human ran 58 plays.


Clipping was most common penalty in the 3 games.
About the only trend needing changing that I can think of currently is that CPU pass defense was too consistent across the 3 games, in that defenders on the C team stuck with my receivers way too well for being 72, 68, 67, and 63 rated CBs. In comparison, the B school defense had 84, 81, 78, and 75 rated CBs, while the A school had 94, 88, 85, and 79 rated CBs. The A school CBs were glued to receivers as one would expect, but down the line there wasn't enough differentiation.
I'm also a little suspect on human pass coverage but need to pay closer attention to that before adjusting anything, in terms of my playcalling and player talent.
Same with human tackling as it seemed like CPU had a lot of broken tackles, but I neglected to look at those stats post-game unfortunately.

I also watched numerous replays of when QBs would get hit during pressure, more than several of my QB getting sacked or hit, and at least a couple of the CPU QB getting hit or sacked......the hit was consistently at 4 seconds across the board.

KR return and PR return averages for the CPU and human were remarkably similar, as was punt distance.

Updated:
Heisman, 8min quarters
HUM:
WR catching 55
Run blocking 60
Pass rush 60
FG power 45
FG accuracy 45

CPU
QB accuracy 45
Pass blocking 40
Pass coverage 35
Pass rush 40
FG power 35

[griffin2608]

Initial settings, more testing tonight.

Heisman, 8min quarters
HUM:
WR catching 55
Run blocking 60
Pass rush 60
FG accuracy 45

CPU
QB accuracy 45
Pass blocking 40
Pass coverage 40
Pass rush 40
FG power 40

Tried these last night in an extreme situation, San Jose State at Bama. I was happy to get my butt kicked lol. 63-0 The running game was ok for both sides Ingram rushed for 120+ yards and that other RB (forgot his name) had 50- 60 yrds. My running game seemed ok and I managed a few first downs on the ground I think I had around 40 yards combined. The passing game was horrible for me 3-24 with 9 drops, way to many. I would have been happy with 10-24 41% completion is a whole lot better than a 12% completion lol. Pass blocking seemed good I managed to get pressure but no sacks but that is typical when you are playing Bama. Their Oline was good! I like the sliders but I think I am going to need some tweaking to fit my skill level. My only issue is the passing game on the heisman level feels good but with an average QB and wild throws right to the defense combined with the drops it is a little too skewed, I threw 3 ints and one was my fault the other two were over throws right to the safety. Throwing the ball was a pain last night with 4 wild throws, and 9 drops I didn't have a chance in the passing game.

[AustinWolv]

The top-rated defenses in this game with top defensive backfields are like blankets from the teams I've played so far. They are very tough. As I mentioned above, I think the CPU pass coverage slider needs to be dropped a bit more, so I moved it down to 35 but haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet.

Updated:
Heisman, 8min quarters
HUM:
WR catching 55
Run blocking 60
Pass rush 60
FG power 45
FG accuracy 45

CPU
QB accuracy 45
Pass blocking 40
Pass coverage 35
Pass rush 40
FG power 35

[griffin2608]

The top-rated defenses in this game with top defensive backfields are like blankets from the teams I've played so far. They are very tough. As I mentioned above, I think the CPU pass coverage slider needs to be dropped a bit more, so I moved it down to 35 but haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet.

Yea I will try that to see if that helps. I am usually just a AA player because in the past the cheapness of heisman was so obvious, but this year heisman seems to be good with a nice challenge. Thanks for all the pointers.

[lilheavy]

One thing I noticed last year was that when we lowered HUM Run ability and Catching I didn't see any of the cool running animations and spectacular catches. I think this should be avoided for those reasons.

[AustinWolv]

Well, the running is less animation-driven this year, thank God, so hopefully not much would be lost if it was lowered. At this point, no friggin' way should it be lowered per the games I've played. Animations would affect catching though, but same with human catching so far that it doesn't get moved down for the time being.

[griffin2608]

Lowering CPU coverage is the ticket. I noticed a difference immediately. I lowered it to 35 and noticed a slight difference but the cover guys were all over me but I paused it and went in and lowered it to 20 and now I can throw the ball and actually have a WR hold on to it. Watching replays in slow mo I discovered that the WR would get a step on the CB but as soon as their was a little seperation they would get the slightest boost to catch up and stay on top of the WR causing the break up. I think 20 is slightly to low but not much for me. Even at 20 it is still challenging but at least the WR will hold on to the ball when you get lucky enough to throw a great pass right in his bread basket.

[griffin2608]

I dont know if I missed it but what are you guys using for min speed threshold and game speed?

[AustinWolv]

I haven't touched those yet.

[JeffHCross]

I dont know if I missed it but what are you guys using for min speed threshold and game speed?

My recommendation is that everyone involved with the Community Sliders use the default for now. To me, Min Speed and Game Speed are more personal preference than anything else. Plus, we don't know the consequences of changing those sliders, in regards to gameplay, right now. It's much easier to see the effect of CPU Pass Defense, for example.

Also, based on the thread in the main sliders forum, Min Speed seems to have very minimal effect so far.

[AustinWolv]

Try this out and offer critique please:
Heisman 8mins, no changes to speed (ver2)
Human:
wr catch 55
rba 55
run block 60
pass cover 60
pass rush 60
fgp 45
fga 45

cpu
qba 30
pass block 40
wr catch 35
rba 45
pass cover 30
pass rush 30
rush d 35
tackle 40
fgp 30

penalty:
offside 75
false 75
PI 100
KR int 100
int ground 100
roughing (both) 100