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Thread: Google Fiber (Former hate for KC & Austin)

  1. #21
    Resident Lawyer of TGT CLW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    Free market, baby!

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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerfan View Post
    Careful! CLW will be along soon to tell you how this is all part of a liberal Democratic agenda.

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    LOL are you really going to say that telcoms operate in a "free market". Hell until just recently they were monopolies. I don't think it was until the early 00s that I even had a choice.

    Competition is ALWAYS best. Google does this and that REQUIRES everyone else to respond or die.

    I should note that Google's t.v. package is REALLY bad right now but I suspect they will get more channels as time goes on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CLW View Post
    LOL are you really going to say that telcoms operate in a "free market". Hell until just recently they were monopolies. I don't think it was until the early 00s that I even had a choice.

    Competition is ALWAYS best. Google does this and that REQUIRES everyone else to respond or die.

    I should note that Google's t.v. package is REALLY bad right now but I suspect they will get more channels as time goes on.
    Looking at their current list, honestly, it's not that bad. The only channels that I don't see listed that I would miss would be AMC, TBS, TNT and ESPN/2/U/etc. Other than that, that thing has every other channel I watch regularly. For TBS, TNT and AMC, I could just watch the shows online. ESPN channels, I really don't even care about ESPN these days outside of college football. And for 1Gbps speeds, fuck, I could part with AMC, ESPN, TBS and TNT until they added them.

  3. #23
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    Google offers TV?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLW View Post
    LOL are you really going to say that telcoms operate in a "free market".
    Well, not a "free" market. But the market is still the driver of our broadband penetration, and thus far the market hasn't responded here the way it has in other countries. I really meant "capitalism", but "free market" was what popped to mind.

    And yes, the fact that you didn't have a choice (and the vast majority of people still don't) is just part of the problem. I don't think Google is going to cause a response from the general industry. They will in Kansas City, but unless Google starts putting this into every major metropolitan area, and I mean yesterday, it's not going to initiate a response in the near-term.
    Last edited by JeffHCross; 07-27-2012 at 08:34 PM.
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    Heisman SCClassof93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    Well, not a "free" market. But the market is still the driver of our broadband penetration, and thus far the market hasn't responded here the way it has in other countries. I really meant "capitalism", but "free market" was what popped to mind.

    And yes, the fact that you didn't have a choice (and the vast majority of people still don't) is just part of the problem. I don't think Google is going to cause a response from the general industry. They will in Kansas City, but unless Google starts putting this into every major metropolitan area, and I mean yesterday, it's not going to initiate a response in the near-term.
    The "market", being buyers in numbers great enough and willing to purchase a given product at a given price. Granted this industry in no way models a "free market" due to over government regulation, taxation, etc. I am curious as to what you think the "driver" should be on any given consumer product or service? Not sure if you equivocate on the word market?

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    Resident Lawyer of TGT CLW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    Well, not a "free" market. But the market is still the driver of our broadband penetration, and thus far the market hasn't responded here the way it has in other countries. I really meant "capitalism", but "free market" was what popped to mind.

    And yes, the fact that you didn't have a choice (and the vast majority of people still don't) is just part of the problem. I don't think Google is going to cause a response from the general industry. They will in Kansas City, but unless Google starts putting this into every major metropolitan area, and I mean yesterday, it's not going to initiate a response in the near-term.
    Well... when government creates "false markets" as it has done with telcoms you cannot possibly blame "free market capitalism" for any problems in the industry. The issues you complain of fall exclusively at the hands of OVER regulation by government which allowed monopolies to develop and thus these companies can afford to be lazy and deliver a lesser product for a higher price b/c the government protects them from the free market. No smart company is going to "push the envelope" when they do not have to. A truly free market in the area would require it because of companies competing for consumers $.

    Had there truly been a free market there would be multiple companies offering MUCH BETTER t.v./net services at lower prices all across the country (again assuming there is sufficient demand from the people of the area). Google has the $ and talent to totally change the game (the question is do they want to). Giving the "dominate" culture in the company I wouldn't be surprised to see them really spread this as fast as they smartly can (assuming it works well in KC). In fact, if I were a betting man I'd believe there are decent odds that Google will become the #1 ISP/TV services provider within the next 20 years.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCClassof93 View Post
    I am curious as to what you think the "driver" should be on any given consumer product or service? Not sure if you equivocate on the word market?
    Not an intentional equivocation. More just an attempt to get to my point while failing to use accurate terminology for this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by CLW View Post
    Giving the "dominate" culture in the company I wouldn't be surprised to see them really spread this as fast as they smartly can (assuming it works well in KC).
    The problem with this thought, in my head, is that the telecom industry has shown, time and again, that initiative is lacking. Is it regulation that prevents two cable companies from both offering services in a single area? Or that prevents a company from offering broadband service further down the street than they currently do? I don't know about the former; maybe it is, I'm not aware enough about regulation to say either way (I know there are franchise agreements, but don't have knowledge of the connection between the two). But the latter, I can't imagine that's regulation that's the problem. When a company already provides X service to a house, and either takes forever to provide X&Y, or simply declines to provide Y, that sounds like a business decision to me. And I'm not sure if I believe that, even with a "free" market, that decision would be any different.

    Also, regarding your overall concept of Google competing ... I agree that they could, but I'll be surprised if they decide they want to. Verizon had a chance to be a game-changer, IMO, with FiOS, and they stopped expanding it two years ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    Not an intentional equivocation. More just an attempt to get to my point while failing to use accurate terminology for this discussion.

    The problem with this thought, in my head, is that the telecom industry has shown, time and again, that initiative is lacking. Is it regulation that prevents two cable companies from both offering services in a single area? Or that prevents a company from offering broadband service further down the street than they currently do? I don't know about the former; maybe it is, I'm not aware enough about regulation to say either way (I know there are franchise agreements, but don't have knowledge of the connection between the two). But the latter, I can't imagine that's regulation that's the problem. When a company already provides X service to a house, and either takes forever to provide X&Y, or simply declines to provide Y, that sounds like a business decision to me. And I'm not sure if I believe that, even with a "free" market, that decision would be any different.

    Also, regarding your overall concept of Google competing ... I agree that they could, but I'll be surprised if they decide they want to. Verizon had a chance to be a game-changer, IMO, with FiOS, and they stopped expanding it two years ago.
    Back to my original question, what do you think the "driver" should be on any given consumer product or service? And to expand, what or how do you think any business makes decisions?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCClassof93 View Post
    Back to my original question, what do you think the "driver" should be on any given consumer product or service? And to expand, what or how do you think any business makes decisions?
    Oh, I know. If you go back to my original post (well, not the Republican Party original post, the one after that ), I said that I currently believe that, at least part of, the problem is that our existing infrastructure is "good enough", and the cost of upgrading that infrastructure in order to put in broadband is prohibitively expensive. And, from a business standpoint, the cost is not going to outweigh the long-term income growth, especially in rural areas where the population density is absolute shit.

    That said, we need increased broadband penetration in this country. But no, I don't know how to get it.

    As for the "driver", the driver of any service is supply and demand. The demand is there, but the supply, I assume, still isn't cheap enough to provide.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    Oh, I know. If you go back to my original post (well, not the Republican Party original post, the one after that ), I said that I currently believe that, at least part of, the problem is that our existing infrastructure is "good enough", and the cost of upgrading that infrastructure in order to put in broadband is prohibitively expensive. And, from a business standpoint, the cost is not going to outweigh the long-term income growth, especially in rural areas where the population density is absolute shit.

    That said, we need increased broadband penetration in this country. But no, I don't know how to get it.

    As for the "driver", the driver of any service is supply and demand. The demand is there, but the supply, I assume, still isn't cheap enough to provide.
    O.K.
    If the cost is prohibitive this means the end buyer won't pay thus the market for the good is not there. I think you mean the cost is too high for long term income growth? With you so far. We do not need increased broadband, many may want it but need, nah.
    On supply and demand I agree in part. Demand drives a market and the price. I have a very limited supply of a very special type of cat turds yet I can't seem to sell them. Why? NO DEMAND. If you were to tweak your second statement to say, the consumer wants broadband etc but not enough of us are willing to pay the cost then I would agree. Basically you get enough demand at a price that is profitable you will have your supply.

    All of this being said, I hate comcast and at&t. Come on Verizon!!!
    Last edited by SCClassof93; 07-29-2012 at 12:23 PM.

  11. #31
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    Yep, you and I are on the same page. There is not enough demand, at least in rural areas, to overcome the cost of upgrading the existing infrastructure. There are some other factors involved, of course, but from a business standpoint that is true. When only so many customers live on a given street, the cost of providing that street with broadband is not going to be overcome by the increased income.

    But "we're not willing to pay enough" is not the sole answer for this question: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...korea-estonia/
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    Yep, you and I are on the same page. There is not enough demand, at least in rural areas, to overcome the cost of upgrading the existing infrastructure. There are some other factors involved, of course, but from a business standpoint that is true. When only so many customers live on a given street, the cost of providing that street with broadband is not going to be overcome by the increased income.

    But "we're not willing to pay enough" is not the sole answer for this question: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...korea-estonia/
    Interesting article. Those are small countries however. There are no five star hotels or restaurants in the sticks either. I in no way support the government "funding" broadband expansion. That is what these companies want.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCClassof93 View Post
    Interesting article. Those are small countries however. There are no five star hotels or restaurants in the sticks either.
    Touche.
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  14. #34
    Resident Lawyer of TGT CLW's Avatar
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    Looks like 20% of KC has already met the signup goals in 4 days. That's pretty impressive

    http://news.yahoo.com/google-fiber-a...210501163.html

  15. #35
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Google Fiber: Triumph of the free market? (I say this only because the article does, not because anyone here believes Google Fiber is free market success) Maybe not.
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    At some point, Google will run our lives completely.

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    +1

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerfan View Post
    At some point, Google will run our lives completely.
    After they buy Facebook.

    Though, it's worth saying, that people were saying practically the same thing about M$ a decade ago. Technology changes enough to open the door for new companies all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerfan View Post
    At some point, Google will run our lives completely.

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    As long as they give me cool shit to play with I don't give a shit

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerfan View Post
    At some point, Google will run our lives completely.

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    I personally welcome our Google overlords.

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