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Thread: Shotgun Inverted Veer

  1. #1
    Freshman PDuncanOSU's Avatar
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    Shotgun Inverted Veer

    Is this play in NCAA12? Taylor Martinez killed OSU with this play on Saturday night. Thought at first it was something like the QB Wrap, but the blocking is different.
    QB Wrap play-art
    QB Wrap.jpg
    Taylor Martinez against OSU (scroll down to the second video from the third quarter)
    http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312810158
    Terrele Pryor running Inverted veer against Penn State

    Same play from enzone view
    Last edited by PDuncanOSU; 10-10-2011 at 04:00 PM.

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    All-American gigemaggs99's Avatar
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    PSN ID: gigemaggs99 Steam ID: gigemaggs99 gigemaggs99's OriginID: gigemaggs99
    Can you do the basic read optioni and just keep it w/ the QB and take it up the gut?

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    Freshman PDuncanOSU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigemaggs99 View Post
    Can you do the basic read optioni and just keep it w/ the QB and take it up the gut?
    In the read option, the backside DE (rightside in the video above) is left unblocked for the QB to make his read off of. In the veer as ran above, the QB makes his read off of the playside DE (leftside in the video) that is left unblocked.

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    Freshman EDJ's Avatar
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    I've found nothing thus far.

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    there are none

    "E"

  6. #6
    SG Wing HB Wk has a option like this.

  7. #7
    Im still not clear on the dynamics of this play. But if you look at the Jet Power plays from the Wildcat. These are the plays that Cam ran at Auburn so well. Still not sure if they're supposed to leave someone unblocked or not. My rules for running this play is vs nickel or lighter defensive fronts keep with the QB, vs anything heavier where the OLB dont move out against the WRs give to the Sweep.

    Also, unless you're playing with modified rosters the QB will never be fast enough to make this play work.

  8. #8
    Yup, this is what Malzahn ran with Cam at Auburn, although TCU was the first team I saw run it on a consistent basis.

    The basic concept is old school option: Leave a playside defender unblocked and send two runners (QB&RB) to the playside. The only difference it has with the read option is that you're leaving the playside DE unblocked and reading him. The QB becomes the inside runner while the RB is an outside threat.

    Oregon started running it with a slot guy jet sweeping into the backfield parallel to the LOS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keontez View Post
    Im still not clear on the dynamics of this play. But if you look at the Jet Power plays from the Wildcat. These are the plays that Cam ran at Auburn so well. Still not sure if they're supposed to leave someone unblocked or not. My rules for running this play is vs nickel or lighter defensive fronts keep with the QB, vs anything heavier where the OLB dont move out against the WRs give to the Sweep.

    Also, unless you're playing with modified rosters the QB will never be fast enough to make this play work.

  9. #9
    Full Create A Play needs to be put in this game.

  10. #10

    here yall go



    The concept. The basic concept is old school option: Leave a playside defender unblocked and send two runners (the quarterback and a runningback) to the playside. By leaving certain defenders unblocked, the offense should gain an advantage in numbers on the other guys: by optioning off one of the most dangerous defenders, the remaining blockers are free to engage in double teams or to directly block the linebackers or force players (like a safety filling the alley). This is one reason why the play is so desirable as compared with the traditional zone read, which has the quarterback reading a backside player — the zone read is a good play, but all it is simply a traditional zone play to one side with an improved bootleg (because it’s a read rather than a call in the huddle) on the backside.


    So that’s the advantage the linemen gain; it’s the same one as can be found on a traditional veer play. The other benefit here — and the reason spread teams like it so much — is that it meshes with their personnel. When the veer was originally drawn up, the “dive back” was usually the kind of guy you expected for that role: a surprisingly fast but still hulking fullback or inside runner. Many if not most “spread” runningbacks, by contrast, are smaller, speedier guys, whereas quarterbacks, while they still come in all shapes in sizes, have been getting bigger — just think of Tim Tebow and Cam Newton. Given Percy Harvin and Tim Tebow in the backfield, I’d rather have Harvin run to the outside while the quarterback runs to the inside: hence the name, the “inverted veer.” (The play is often called “Dash” for obvious reasons.) But that’s all theory; now let’s look at how to block the play.

    Blocking schemes. The first few times I saw this play run I saw it used with a modified form of the kind of blocking that would be used for “power,” which is how TCU ran it and how it is drawn in the diagram above. Undoubtedly, this is a major reason why teams like Ohio State under Jim Tressel liked the play: Power-O (or “Dave” in Ohio State’s lexion) was their favorite run play, and a spread offense, quarterback centric scheme that used the “Power” blocking scheme equals about ten minutes of practice installation and instant success.


    In the traditional two-back “power” scheme, shown in the NFL playbook diagram below, the frontside of the line “down” blocks while the backside guard pulls and leads into the alley. The playside defensive end is kicked out by the fullback, thus opening the path for the runner and lead blocker.


    When the inverted veer is run with power blocking, everything stays the same, except that the playside defensive end is “blocked” with the read, as shown in the diagram below


    This was Gus Malzahn’s preferred way to run the scheme last year, and it makes sense. The offense has to be careful with its formations in the event of an “overhang” player (imagine if there was a linebacker aligned outside of the defensive end to be read), but overall the numbers work out well: The playside linemen should be able to create a seal of the backside, the pulling guard will take the playside linebacker, and the defensive end will never be right. Moreover, as teams got better at this they learned that a key coaching point for the quarterback was to slide to the playside as he “meshed” with the runner. This means that, once the quarterback makes his decision, the defensive end should have committed. If the handoff takes place too far inside, a slow playing defensive end might be able to get back outside for the runner. All in all it’s a good way to run the play.

    Increasingly, however, I’ve been thinking that it’s simpler to just run this play with normal zone blocking, and potentially even outside zone blocking. A major reason is that fronts have become increasingly unpredictable, and one of the big benefits of zone schemes is that the blocking rules should allow every blocker to “find work.” Moreover, the way most outside zone is taught, the runningback “reads” the defensive end: If he gets reached or slants inside, the runner looks to stretch the play to the outside; if he doesn’t get reached and works outside, it is a cutback. (Though as Alex Gibbs likes to point out, a cutback on outside zone is often a run straight upfield from a point outside where the tight-end originally lined up.) On the inverted veer, the read is literally a read, and the handoff to the runner can be treated like a bounce on the stretch while the quarterback’s keep can be treated like a cut up or cut back (hat tip).




    read the entire write up, but simply put, no, this play isnt in this game, if it was it probably wouldnt be ran correctly anyway

  11. #11
    Recruit WipeOut464's Avatar
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    From Smart Football?

    Chris Brown's Smart Football is a must-read for football junkies. (fordtuff504, you're not him by any chance are you?)

    Community Day guys: any chance the Inverted Veer was added to this year's playbooks?

  12. #12
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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  13. #13
    Freshman PDuncanOSU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    Chris Brown (and Smart Football) is simply amazing.
    Totally agree with you on this Jeff, there is a lot of great info on his site. I've really enjoyed reading his stuff (as well as on elevenwarriors.com and alongtheolentangy.com) on what to expect from Ohio State's offense under Urban Meyer & Tom Herman.

    I've had some success in the demo in running from the spread with Baylor, Kansas State, and Oregon but am a little disapointed that I didn't see the veer, inverted veer or a mid-line read in their playbooks.

    Mid-Line Read

    Shotgun Veer Option (Scroll about halfway down the page)

  14. #14
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Bumping this. As far as I know, Inverted Veer was never found in NCAA Football 13's playbooks. After reading Smart Football's breakdown again, this play has been in real ball since 2009. It needs added to the game.
    Twitter: @3YardsandACloud

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    Heisman Oneback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffHCross View Post
    Bumping this. As far as I know, Inverted Veer was never found in NCAA Football 13's playbooks. After reading Smart Football's breakdown again, this play has been in real ball since 2009. It needs added to the game.
    If the standard is plays that are in real football, there are MANY MANY plays they need to added prior to inverted veer.

    I did sit down probably 3 months ago and send detailed information to the core gameplay team on inverted veer - not really sure if it will go anywhere though.

  16. #16
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneback View Post
    If the standard is plays that are in real football, there are MANY MANY plays they need to added prior to inverted veer.
    Perhaps, but the inverted veer has been a steady and very visible component of many team's offenses the last few seasons. In particular Auburn's with Cam Newton. So it's a relatively obvious missing piece too.
    Twitter: @3YardsandACloud

  17. #17
    Freshman PDuncanOSU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneback View Post
    If the standard is plays that are in real football, there are MANY MANY plays they need to added prior to inverted veer.

    I did sit down probably 3 months ago and send detailed information to the core gameplay team on inverted veer - not really sure if it will go anywhere though.
    I agree that there are a lot of plays that need to be added, but inverted veer is definitely one of them. As Jeff said, Cam Newton won the heisman running this play a lot. Inverted veer and inside zone read were the base of Urban Meyer's Ohio State offense last year. Taylor Martinez has been very successful with it at Nebraska. The 49ers even used it in their playoff win against the Falcons.

    With as much as the spread offense is being used in the NCAA and NFL, this major staple of the spread really needs to be included.

  18. #18
    Heisman Oneback's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, inverted veer needs to be added, so does midline read, and many other spread concepts. At this point offenses and defenses that are being run currently at the high school level are more complex than what we're playing with in the game.

    Think about how many games you've played in the last 10 years, I'd imagine that number is higher than all the practices and games any single real life football player has participated in during that time, I know it has been for me. I know this is getting away from inverted veer but the way plays are diagrammed and the concepts we are given are old school.

    Take something as simple as the post and corner route, in real life a post route after the break is run to the near post of the actual goalpost, how many times have you seen a receiver run a post route and end up around the backside hash, a corner route is run to the near end zone pylon when the play starts outside of the 25, inside the 25 its run to the backside pylon in the end zone. Zone blocking, heck almost no blocking is done correct in the game, there is no concept of spill or contain by the defense, only chase ball and there are time when they don't even do that (option), safeties don't fill the alley after diagnosing run, heck they don't even align correctly in most coverage's.

    Now I know everyone wants inverted veer, its been asked about for years, but the game doesn't even contain a basic foundation of concepts, blocking, defense, etc and we want to start piling on more advanced concepts only to complain when it breaks another part of the game because that's the only way they can get it to work or complain because its in the game but doesn't work.

    Let's fix these issues, then add constraint plays to the ones already in the playbook - I've attempted to lend my knowledge to the good people at EA, they didn't want to listen. But hey, lets get inverted veer added, just don't be surprised if it's broken or breaks something else.

  19. #19
    Booster JeffHCross's Avatar
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    How dare you try to bring "logic" into this discussion!
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