NCAA Football 12 Video Highlights New Dives and Bull Rush Animations

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

that video doesnt relate to the animations were seeing, the OT engages the DE just before the LB hits him from the side...

"E"

[souljahbill]

Sorry Bill, but that video is a bad example. The O-lineman is looking at the DE and is backpedaling and all of a sudden he is hit by a LB with a 5-7 yard head start from the side. The bull rush video is man on man from a 3 point stance. You rarely see this kind of thing in pop warner football, let alone D-1 college football. The only time you see something that is even close to this is if the DL jumps offsides and the OL doesn't come out of his stance. As long as it doesn't happen much,(maybe once a game if that) I won't care too much. Now, if I have a AA OL getting pancaked by a DL from "sisters of the poor" college, then I will be kinda pissed. I am just looking forward to what the CD guys have to say when they get back.

that video doesnt relate to the animations were seeing, the OT engages the DE just before the LB hits him from the side...

"E"

I didn't post the video to "excuse" the animation. In fact, I'm one of the naysayers on this issue.

Yeah, I've never really seen linemen pushed down like that. I've seen the opposite of a d-lineman being pancaked but never an o-lineman pushed down on the ground like a child.

I only did it's the only example I've ever seen of a lineman getting blown up and like you guys said, it wasn't a lineman starting from the ground exploding into the o-lineman but rather a linebacker coming in like a train on an unsuspecting lineman.

[ryby6969]

That makes more sense.

[whitepony99]

Yes if that lineman gave the same poor form/leverage and lost his balance I am sure Suh could throw him 2 feet. However, these OL are also putting out a tremendous amount of force/energy too and have much better footwork/balance/technique that Sports Science Guy. Again, can it/does it happen IRL. Yes. However, balance/the frequency is key.

Leverage is key low man wins and if you watch a lineman pass blocking they get sloppy in there use of leverage which is when you see a guy like Suh jack them up.

[I OU a Beatn]

I personally couldn't give two shits about the bull rush. I'd much rather have an overpowered pass rush(if that turns out to be the case) than the pass rush that has been in the last 3 games, which is pretty close to zero. It's much, much easier to account for an overpowered pass rush than one that doesn't exist, so if EA has to incorporate some unrealistic move(if it turns out to be unrealistic) to increase the effectiveness of the pass rush, I'm 100% all for it.

I've grown tired of watching these little bitches sit in the pocket for 12 seconds and just waiting for their receiver to run a streak, end their route, come back and be open for a guaranteed 20+ yard gain.

[Cipher 8]

You're absolutely right. We continue to complain that there is absolutely no difference between a big, dominant D-lineman and a mediocre one.

Yeah I actually like this animation. I'm not one to nitpick about small details but I understand why there are a lot that do. I still think this won't be seen every other play and people got the wrong notion about this happening a lot because it was shown a couple times in video showcasing the animations.

My vote for best use of an emoticon.....EVER

I concur.

[whitepony99]

I personally couldn't give two shits about the bull rush. I'd much rather have an overpowered pass rush(if that turns out to be the case) than the pass rush that has been in the last 3 games, which is pretty close to zero. It's much, much easier to account for an overpowered pass rush than one that doesn't exist, so if EA has to incorporate some unrealistic move(if it turns out to be unrealistic) to increase the effectiveness of the pass rush, I'm 100% all for it.

I've grown tired of watching these little bitches sit in the pocket for 12 seconds and just waiting for their receiver to run a streak, end their route, come back and be open for a guaranteed 20+ yard gain.

I agree

[souljahbill]

I must be playing the wrong game because I never have time so sit in the pocket. If I don't make a decision quickly, my QB is getting smashed, even with a good O-line. The computer gets waaaay more time then I do, even when my D-line is set to aggressive.


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[Rudy]

I must be playing the wrong game because I never have time so sit in the pocket. If I don't make a decision quickly, my QB is getting smashed, even with a good O-line. The computer gets waaaay more time then I do, even when my D-line is set to aggressive.


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I think most of the complaints about no pass rush are related to online ranked games which is on AA and the users have a lot of time. Playing on AA or Heisman offline against the cpu is not an issue imo. Slider adjustments can be used to adjust to whatever a person wants.

[Oneback]

My biggest problem with the bull rush video is that it just looks bad. I mean quite honestly we've had this annimation before, the year jump the snap first entered the game, defensive tackles and ends would jump the snap and the blocker would end up on his back.

Now I am not saying this never happens in real life, but at the top levels of college football you will hardly ever see this.

With that being said here is what a bull rush is as described by Ron Vanderlinden the defensive coordinator at Penn State:

The bull rush is designed to drive the blocker into the quarterback. When executing a bull rush, the defensive lineman should accelerate across the line of scrimmage with leverage and should charge into one half of the surface of the blocker. He should drive his hands up through the blocker's breastplates, maintaining inside hand control. He should keep his feet moving and be relentless in his charge. The defensive lineman should always maintain a position of leverage on the blocker, which will allow the defensive lineman to continue to drive the pass blocker back and into the quarterback.

The swim technique canbe used after initially starting a bull rush. The blocker must be convinced that the pass rusher is on a bull rush charge, which will force the blocker to lunge and over extend forward to stop the bull rush. Once the blocker has over extended forward, the rusher should quickly pull the blocker forward, then drive his inside arm tightly over the surface of the blocker and replace the blocker's body with his own. He should then push off and accelerate to the quarterback.

The rip technique technique can also be used off of a bull rush start. The same coaching points described for the swim technique apply to the start of a rip rush. However, when the blocker lunges forward to stop the pass rusher's charge, instead of driving his arm tightly under the surface of the blocker, the rusher whould dip and rip his arm tightly under the surface of the blocker. As soon as the rusher clears the blocker, the rusher should replace the blocker's body with his own and should accelerate to the quarterback. The rusher may reload and execute the rip technique again if nexessary to come free. He could also convert his rip technique to a quick swim move. This is often a successful way to throw the blocker off balance and for the rusher to free himself up.

You will notice no where in there does it say charge directly into the blocker and he will fall down like a rag doll.

Pass rushing is much like a pitcher setting up a batter for a strikeout. In high school most of the really good defensive ends can get away with using the speed or bull rush because they are either that much faster or bigger and stronger than the blocker so you only need your fastball to get by the blocker.

Now in college you've got to add a secondary pitch. Those defensive ends that were able to speed rush in high school will now be riden in an arc right around the quarterback and those that only have a bull rush will get stopped as now the blocker is just as big and strong as the guy rushing him.

A secondary rush move just like adding a change-up or curve to your fastball will only make the fastball look better. A speed rusher will add a bull rush, as the blocker tries to reach the speed rush he will get further back in his stance to enable him to reach the speed rush. By adding a bull rush with the blocker further back in his stance the speed rusher now has an easier time getting the blocker off balance and pushing him back into the quarterback.



The bull rusher like described above will add a swim or rip move to combat an over extended blocker.

Bull Rush



Bull Jerk



Hump Move (basically a rip and swim)



Defensive ends with two rush moves in college can be successful the really great ones have three or more.

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

The bull rush is designed to drive the blocker into the quarterback. When executing a bull rush, the defensive lineman should accelerate across the line of scrimmage with leverage and should charge into one half of the surface of the blocker. He should drive his hands up through the blocker's breastplates, maintaining inside hand control. He should keep his feet moving and be relentless in his charge. The defensive lineman should always maintain a position of leverage on the blocker, which will allow the defensive lineman to continue to drive the pass blocker back and into the quarterback.

this is what i was referring to on attacking the kick step shoulder... outside leverage while keeping one hand in place for the club/swim or in place to be able to dip through for the rip... grab grass and go...

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[I OU a Beatn]

I must be playing the wrong game because I never have time so sit in the pocket. If I don't make a decision quickly, my QB is getting smashed, even with a good O-line. The computer gets waaaay more time then I do, even when my D-line is set to aggressive.

I'm talking about online against another human. In my 20 or so online games, I didn't punt a single time and a lot of that was due to the huge lack of pressure online. You would occasionally get a guy who was able to loop the DE and get in fairly quick, but that was easily negated by hot routing a RB to block or just running a play with a TE on that side. It's been that way for at least 3 years and it's ANNOYING. I'd MUCH rather deal with an overpowered pass rush. I'm very confident I can make my reads a lot quicker than the east room garbage I play so it shouldn't affect me as much.

[Jayrah]

Meh. Imo you guys are a year ahead of the game. Now that suction has been removed and animations wait till contact, adding some real life concepts to the DL rush game becomes a possibility, but in the meantime this in-game concept will suffice.

[xGRIDIRONxGURUx]

i think i am jumping the gun a tad on it, but it just annoys me... and ill say this a ton and i hate it... but the kids that i coach eat sleep and breathe this football game, they play madden some too, but i cant stand it when a kid sees crap on this game and wants to "use/do it" in real life...

"E"

[jaymo76]

I personally couldn't give two shits about the bull rush. I'd much rather have an overpowered pass rush(if that turns out to be the case) than the pass rush that has been in the last 3 games, which is pretty close to zero. It's much, much easier to account for an overpowered pass rush than one that doesn't exist, so if EA has to incorporate some unrealistic move(if it turns out to be unrealistic) to increase the effectiveness of the pass rush, I'm 100% all for it.

I've grown tired of watching these little bitches sit in the pocket for 12 seconds and just waiting for their receiver to run a streak, end their route, come back and be open for a guaranteed 20+ yard gain.

Some good points there.

[Pokes404]

I personally couldn't give two shits about the bull rush. I'd much rather have an overpowered pass rush(if that turns out to be the case) than the pass rush that has been in the last 3 games, which is pretty close to zero. It's much, much easier to account for an overpowered pass rush than one that doesn't exist, so if EA has to incorporate some unrealistic move(if it turns out to be unrealistic) to increase the effectiveness of the pass rush, I'm 100% all for it.

I've grown tired of watching these little bitches sit in the pocket for 12 seconds and just waiting for their receiver to run a streak, end their route, come back and be open for a guaranteed 20+ yard gain.

I have to disagree. Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't want a nonexistent pass rush, and I don't want an overpowered/unrealistic pass rush. I want football. Simple as that. A successful bull rush (95% of the time) should drive the blocker into the backfield and create disruption. It should not result in the blocker being laid out on the ground (except for those very rare instances). This may very well be the case. We won't really know until we either see actual gameplay footage or get our hands on the demo. I'm just trying to voice a word of caution to any devs that might be reading this that this needs to be done right.

[I OU a Beatn]

I don't want either one, either, but I'm saying if I had to pick between an overpowered pass rush that gets in too quick or a pass rush that is non-existent, I'd much rather have the overpowered pass rush. Anyone who has played online consistently should agree with me. The offense of an online player for the past 3 years has been this:

1. Run a bunch of toss plays.
2. Scramble around a lot with the QB.
3. Sit in the pocket and wait for someone to run their route and come back as the DB does not stick with the WR once they break off the route and come back to the ball.
4. Run a bunch of flares, slants, drags, posts, and that garbage.

It's a never ending cycle. 90% of this happens because they do not have to respect the pass rush because it doesn't exist. I remember looking at my stats last year and my sacks against being something like .25 a game. That's unbelievable. That means I was getting sacked once every FOUR games.

Like I said, I'd much rather have a balance pass rush, but if I had to choose between the two, it's a no brainer for me. With an overpowered/normal pass rush, I can completely disrupt the offense of the douches who run that kind of offense. Whenever I don't have a pass rush, I can't do a thing except let them sit back and pick me apart.

[psusnoop]

Very nice Oneback.

[Jayrah]

I have to disagree. Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't want a nonexistent pass rush, and I don't want an overpowered/unrealistic pass rush. I want football. Simple as that.

It's not 2 wrongs in my opinion. It's an intermediate way of addressing the issue. Again, the guys who have played 100 hrs or so of time each on the game thought the DL was overpowered, and never once saw the animation.

[Jayrah]

My 2 points to this video are:
1) The in game animation happens as is In Real Life.
2) As you can see, the difference between the in game animation and a successful bull rush the way you guys want it is very little in terms of time. Therefore, it IS NOT UNREALISTIC in the time factor, nor would it be overpowered. It could be too much of one animation, but the idea is the same: A better pass rush.

This is the in game bull rush animation In Real Life: 1:53 RE

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8ii1TVs8Fr0" allowfullscreen="" width="480" frameborder="0" height="390"></iframe>

@ 6:35 - Another Bull Rush that puts LT on his back like in game animation shows
@ 0:21 RE, 8:22 RE & 8:44 DT - This is what we are talking about wanting in a bull rush:
&
@ 5:32 LE - Speed Rush

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DaPDKyVM1sU" allowfullscreen="" width="480" frameborder="0" height="390"></iframe>