NBA Elite 11 - (Cancelled)

[xRomo9]

Well if it was to rename the NBA Live why would they be posting it on all the facebook pages ?
I think it has to do with the online play on all the major sports games. I guess we will see soon enough....

[gschwendt]

According to OXM, It is in fact NBA Elite 11 and it includes real time physics.
http://www.pastapadre.com/2010/05/26...l-time-physics

[steelerfan]

According to OXM, It is in fact NBA Elite 11 and it includes real time physics.
http://www.pastapadre.com/2010/05/26...l-time-physics

Real time physics is slated for NHL 11 also. Not too sure what that means yet other than some obvious positives.

Btw, I'm not a big NBA guy, but isn't LeBron wearing the wrong uni for this?

[xRomo9]

Pastapadre

"It was just last week we learned that EA Sports is introducing real-time physics in the NHL series. Both games are developed out of the EA Canada studio. Continue on to check out a scan of the entire article which includes some images and leave your thoughts in the comments"...

I thought NBA Live was produced out of Orlando...."scratches head"

[I OU a Beatn]

Sweet. I can't wait to try out real time physics in NCAA Football '12. :p

[steelerfan]

Pastapadre

"It was just last week we learned that EA Sports is introducing real-time physics in the NHL series. Both games are developed out of the EA Canada studio. Continue on to check out a scan of the entire article which includes some images and leave your thoughts in the comments"...

I thought NBA Live was produced out of Orlando...."scratches head"

I don't know anything about Live (haven't played since 97 or so) but they mentioned David Littman. He is also over the NHL series.

[Solidice]

According to OXM, It is in fact NBA Elite 11 and it includes real time physics.
http://www.pastapadre.com/2010/05/26...l-time-physics

it seems it could be for NBA. still confusing as to why it's on every EA Sports facebook page. I don't care about the NBA, keep that off the NCAA FB page. :p

[Deuce]

According to OXM, It is in fact NBA Elite 11 and it includes real time physics.
http://www.pastapadre.com/2010/05/26...l-time-physics

Stupid question...what does that really mean? How will that differ from locomotion?

[morsdraconis]

Stupid question...what does that really mean? How will that differ from locomotion?

HOPEFULLY, that means that they get locomotion in NBA Live 11. If so, that'll be a HUGE step toward them surpassing the NBA 2k series.

[JBHuskers]

Pastapadre

"It was just last week we learned that EA Sports is introducing real-time physics in the NHL series. Both games are developed out of the EA Canada studio. Continue on to check out a scan of the entire article which includes some images and leave your thoughts in the comments"...

I thought NBA Live was produced out of Orlando...."scratches head"

Nope NBA Live is produced at EAC.

[UGA14]

Does locomotion still have pre-canned animations, etc? Wouldn't real-time infer that everything happening will be, just that, in real-time occurring right there... giving each move an individuality not before seen? That would be my guess.

[cdj]

From Stick Skills:

In the July issue of the Official Xbox Magazine, Mitch Dyer unveils the following details on the upcoming NBA Elite 11:
"First, canned moves are being phased out in favor of real-time physics. This addresses a major concern for both critics and the development team. Where you used to be committed to an action's entire animation as soon as you punched a button, NBA Elite 11 gives you the ability to interrupt and intertwine actions on a whim. If you're driving toward the basket and a defender cuts you off, you won't awkwardly run into or around him; you can slow your roll and interrupt your movie with a flick of the left stick."
The rest of the article goes on to details that the left stick acts moreso as your body, and the right stick as your hands and the ball. Shots are now mapped to the right stick as well, taking awhile the "rolling of dice" when taking a shot and leaving it entirely up to skill.

Creative director for NBA Elite 11 David Littman, who has made the NHL series at EA a huge success, said that, "Now, if someone makes a shot from half court, you can't get mad because it's entirely skill-based."

Shooting works simply by pushing up on the right stick and letting go to send the ball toward the goal. Though the mechanic is rather simplistic, the accuracy of how straight you push the stick up determines the accuracy of your release. The game's realistic physics system can also be used to aim to the side to hit a bank shot, or even allowing you to toss the ball between your hands to outsmart a defender on a layup or dunk.


So this confirms it - and now David Littman is the new Creative Director for the franchise. Very, very interesting.



This whole 'canned animations,' 'physics engine' stuff is pretty confusing, but here's something I wrote a while back elsewhere that helps me try and keep it clear. Most of the info is straight from Ian Cummings and a blog he posted on OS:

Spoiler: show

A few weeks ago, Madden 10 lead designer Ian Cummings referred to BackBreaker as utilizing a "physics based engine" in this blog, but the guys at BB were quick to let him know through twitter that "euphoria isn't a physics engine - it's animation technology that creates unique game moments" and linked to their site explaining more. Check out the chart in the eupohoria:core section after reading the paragraph below.

Reading through the Cummings blog linked above, he mentions that Madden utilizes four main engines in game:

- Animation Engine - It's called ANT (ANimation Toolkit), and it's shared technology among nearly all of the EA Sports games. ANT provides two things: 1.) a 'tool' which allows us to prepare our raw animations for the game (i.e. tagging when a player is down or what injury impact a tackle has on which body part), and 2.) in-game technology to actually execute all these animations. Anything custom to our game (and NCAA) is built as a plug-in to ANT...so it's actually not part of the low level animation engine. This includes things like IK Foot Pinning, Multi-Character Alignment (for tackles, blocks, etc), Catching, etc
- Physics Engine - Though obviously we don't have a rag-doll solution, we do have physics in our game to handle collision (or else players would just pass through each other and the ball would pass through the ground). This engine is proprietary and custom to Madden only. Havok Physics (by Havok) would be another example of a physics engine.
- Rendering Engine - We have a proprietary rendering engine called RNA that is also used in many other EA games. This handles the 'drawing' of everything in our game to the screen. Another rendering engine example would be 'Gemini', which is the rendering section of Unreal Engine 3.
- AI / Assignment Engine - Another proprietary system, since this is obviously specific to football. The game runs on a multitude of different assignments that a player is in with hundreds & thousands of parameters; things like "deep zone" or "ballcarrier pursuit" or "move to catch" or "get fumble". Some of this is driven directly by the design of the plays (i.e. a run route assignment), and much of the other stuff is dynamic AI (i.e. pursuit).

I don't understand the whole engine or game dev process completely, but it sounds like BB may utilize several in-game engines as well (like Madden), but sub out the top 'Animation Engine' and insert euphoria. BackBreaker's success and long-term football reputation (like Madden, NCAA, & All-Pro Football before it) will still boil down to the AI/Assignment engine or whatever they call their system (Game Logic & Behaviours).

It gives cool player-to-player physical interaction, but the actual AI still has to be coded and programmed in.

[NatureBoy]

I'm not sure I like the idea of analog controls in basketball games. It might just be NBA 2K11 for me this year.

[Deuce]

From Stick Skills:

In the July issue of the Official Xbox Magazine, Mitch Dyer unveils the following details on the upcoming NBA Elite 11:
"First, canned moves are being phased out in favor of real-time physics. This addresses a major concern for both critics and the development team. Where you used to be committed to an action's entire animation as soon as you punched a button, NBA Elite 11 gives you the ability to interrupt and intertwine actions on a whim. If you're driving toward the basket and a defender cuts you off, you won't awkwardly run into or around him; you can slow your roll and interrupt your movie with a flick of the left stick."
The rest of the article goes on to details that the left stick acts moreso as your body, and the right stick as your hands and the ball. Shots are now mapped to the right stick as well, taking awhile the "rolling of dice" when taking a shot and leaving it entirely up to skill.

Creative director for NBA Elite 11 David Littman, who has made the NHL series at EA a huge success, said that, "Now, if someone makes a shot from half court, you can't get mad because it's entirely skill-based."

Shooting works simply by pushing up on the right stick and letting go to send the ball toward the goal. Though the mechanic is rather simplistic, the accuracy of how straight you push the stick up determines the accuracy of your release. The game's realistic physics system can also be used to aim to the side to hit a bank shot, or even allowing you to toss the ball between your hands to outsmart a defender on a layup or dunk.


So this confirms it - and now David Littman is the new Creative Director for the franchise. Very, very interesting.



This whole 'canned animations,' 'physics engine' stuff is pretty confusing, but here's something I wrote a while back elsewhere that helps me try and keep it clear. Most of the info is straight from Ian Cummings and a blog he posted on OS:

Spoiler: show

A few weeks ago, Madden 10 lead designer Ian Cummings referred to BackBreaker as utilizing a "physics based engine" in this blog, but the guys at BB were quick to let him know through twitter that "euphoria isn't a physics engine - it's animation technology that creates unique game moments" and linked to their site explaining more. Check out the chart in the eupohoria:core section after reading the paragraph below.

Reading through the Cummings blog linked above, he mentions that Madden utilizes four main engines in game:

- Animation Engine - It's called ANT (ANimation Toolkit), and it's shared technology among nearly all of the EA Sports games. ANT provides two things: 1.) a 'tool' which allows us to prepare our raw animations for the game (i.e. tagging when a player is down or what injury impact a tackle has on which body part), and 2.) in-game technology to actually execute all these animations. Anything custom to our game (and NCAA) is built as a plug-in to ANT...so it's actually not part of the low level animation engine. This includes things like IK Foot Pinning, Multi-Character Alignment (for tackles, blocks, etc), Catching, etc
- Physics Engine - Though obviously we don't have a rag-doll solution, we do have physics in our game to handle collision (or else players would just pass through each other and the ball would pass through the ground). This engine is proprietary and custom to Madden only. Havok Physics (by Havok) would be another example of a physics engine.
- Rendering Engine - We have a proprietary rendering engine called RNA that is also used in many other EA games. This handles the 'drawing' of everything in our game to the screen. Another rendering engine example would be 'Gemini', which is the rendering section of Unreal Engine 3.
- AI / Assignment Engine - Another proprietary system, since this is obviously specific to football. The game runs on a multitude of different assignments that a player is in with hundreds & thousands of parameters; things like "deep zone" or "ballcarrier pursuit" or "move to catch" or "get fumble". Some of this is driven directly by the design of the plays (i.e. a run route assignment), and much of the other stuff is dynamic AI (i.e. pursuit).

I don't understand the whole engine or game dev process completely, but it sounds like BB may utilize several in-game engines as well (like Madden), but sub out the top 'Animation Engine' and insert euphoria. BackBreaker's success and long-term football reputation (like Madden, NCAA, & All-Pro Football before it) will still boil down to the AI/Assignment engine or whatever they call their system (Game Logic & Behaviours).

It gives cool player-to-player physical interaction, but the actual AI still has to be coded and programmed in.

Good info there...

..thx CDJ

[Jayrah]

HOPEFULLY, that means that they get locomotion in NBA Live 11. If so, that'll be a HUGE step toward them surpassing the NBA 2k series.

What? Why would they need locomotion with real time physics? I'm totally happy with 2k, it's never let me down for basketball. And like Nature Boy this does NOT look intriguing to me with the analog sticks. We'll have to see what else comes with it though I suppose.

[JBHuskers]

I'm part excited and part cautious at the same time. I really liked the strides that NBA Live 10 took, but at the same time, sales lacked. I think the hype engine though for NBA Elite 11 is off to the right foot. Is it a good foot though? We'll see this winter.

[Rudy]

I bought NBA Live 09 and had fun with it for awhile. I used to play basketball games a lot more but that was the first one I bought in years (since CHOOPS 2K6). Not sure why they did the name change though. It worked for MVP baseball but they completely redid that game.

[JBHuskers]

More ELITE viral goodness:

[UGA14]

At least now you can pretty much 100% confirm it's basketball related.

[JBHuskers]

At least now you can pretty much 100% confirm it's basketball related.

Yep, I think after a few news stories came out, that forced their hand.