Let's talk X's and not O's

Before anybody (namely myself) starts writing up elaborate Offensive schemes (because this year, honestly a 5 year old can score 35), we need to put our heads together and figure out some defensive systems... THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE: audibling down from quarters normal to whatever 4 man front like i have seen in about every game ive played head to head so far... i have played about 12 unranked games, and at first it wasn't that bad but the last 4-5 have been about that

my 3-4 methods work 50% of the time... the blocking is just so powerful and the DL are nerfed so bad that even presenting my old cover 4 roll down to a 5-3 look doesn't really do much against some of these runs in the game

i am about to base out of the 4-4 and audible down from a 4-2-5 normal so that i can manually blitz my dogs... if you can get a QB to move on this game their accuracy drops a good bit, so i have been trying different playbooks, fronts, approaches, mixes of overloads with both zone and man... just one of those things where they upgraded offense more than ever and it is just super tough to kind of run a true base and be able to plug up the holes but defend a pass or two...

so let's get started on the X's and leave the O's alone, i prefer sim/OD approved techniques here so we can get some stuff figured out as to what works and what is just worthless

Oh my goodness, I would love seeing this! I've always sucked at defense before (to the point of super-simming defense in the past). It looks like it's not the best year to want to turn that around and learn to play defense right (based on real world principles) :(.

I noticed before a game starts and when you are picking teams and playbooks. Defensive playbooks had 4-3 and 4-3 multiple? What's the difference? I've been a 4-3 guy forever but now I'm going to 4-2-5. That's what auburn is going to so I'm going to try it.

I have only played against the CPU so far and have been using default All American with game speed at slow and speed threshold at 0. Two schemes I've used to slow down the read option a bit are:

1. Cover 1 Robber: FS plays deep zone, corners and LBs in man coverage, I user control the SS in robber coverage to account for the QB
2. Cover 3 Zone Blitz: Cover 3 keeps most routes in front of it, bring blitz to side HB is running to, user safety on other side to take QB

Neither of these things works 100% and a smart user probably would have a response, but it's helped against the CPU option for me.

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Originally Posted by PDuncanOSU

I have only played against the CPU so far and have been using default All American with game speed at slow and speed threshold at 0. Two schemes I've used to slow down the read option a bit are:

1. Cover 1 Robber: FS plays deep zone, corners and LBs in man coverage, I user control the SS in robber coverage to account for the QB
2. Cover 3 Zone Blitz: Cover 3 keeps most routes in front of it, bring blitz to side HB is running to, user safety on other side to take QB

Neither of these things works 100% and a smart user probably would have a response, but it's helped against the CPU option for me.

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PDuncan, what def formation are you primarily using these out of?

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Originally Posted by uf83198

PDuncan, what def formation are you primarily using these out of?

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I don't remember where specific plays are right now. I typically just match personnel. 3-4 or 4-3 against 12 or 21 personnel, Nickel normal (or nickel 2-4-5 if base 3-4) against 11 personnel, and dime or nickel against 10 personnel. I have also used the package in Nickel normal that puts a safety at the Nickelback spot to get a better run defender in against the spread-option teams.

I’m having problem with the 3-4 run fits.

Last night against CPU I get gashed to the outside with I –Twins Power O. I go to the replay and notice that the run fits are all screwed up.

SS has the TE in man and is the force player. At the snap HE JUMPS INTO THE “B” GAP!!!!!!! That was last played I played for the night, as I just couldn’t take it. The sad thing is that the exact same scenario worked perfectly in NCAA13. I would see guard pulling and get on their heels and make the play because the force was there. Now I don’t know what to do. Fundamental defensive football principles do not apply to NCAA14.

IMO, Defense starts with:
Alignment and Assignment

EA cannot get the alignments correct and player’s assignments are not programmed correctly.

My read option answer is to put the “option” adjustment on aggressive. This makes the option player take the QB. Then I play the run. Removes the guessing game.

we cant discuss real life run fits here because they program this game in this order:

1. hit man near you
2. see ball
3. get ball

so this thread is to discuss formations and plays used to setup a "slowing" of these new option plays how you use them and whats the counters you use to go to when you expect quick pass or deep ball... think mini scheme within the game here... I am off all day and will be on the game with a buddy all day trying some stuff I think may help... so hopefully today yields some info

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Originally Posted by starter

My read option answer is to put the “option” adjustment on aggressive. This makes the option player take the QB. Then I play the run. Removes the guessing game.

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I actually like to switch up the gameplan adjustment depending on the play I call.

Sometimes I'll set it to take the QB, causing the QB to give the ball the RB, then I'll call a blitz to the playside so the RB ends up running into the blitz. This can leave you vulnerable in the secondary though depending on the blitz you call and how good your DBs are.

If I don't want to blitz, I'll change the gameplan setting to take the RB and call a standard cover-3 or cover-1 robber so that the "robber" safety is on the backside to take the QB.

With the read option wouldnt making the gameplan to take the QB make most sense? It seems to me that the DE goes after the RB 98% of the time. I would rather test my skills using a saftey or LB and take the RB and let my DE take the QB..

i have had it on QB the entire time since demo... guys that's not the answer

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Originally Posted by xGRIDIRONxGURUx

i have had it on QB the entire time since demo... guys that's not the answer

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There's probably not a perfect answer for this. The spread-option is a difficult offense to stop in real football and is even tougher in NCAA 14. IMO the best way to have a prayer at stopping this offense is forcing the offense to make the read you want them to then picking a defensive play designed to stop it.

ok... guys... if you aren't working on strategy or schemes to help contain it then post elsewhere... i am looking for a system not an explanation... as a former college player and HS coach, i am not lacking in X's & O's... what i want is GAME PROVEN stuff... not ideas or thoughts... not trying to be a prick, but i am working on strategy for those that aren't as informed

I don't really have a problem stopping the option runs. It's the pass game that absolutely kills me. I'm clueless as to what to do and I'm not really sure if there's anything you can do.

Stopping the option run (keep in mind I'm only playing in offline dynasty) I just set Option at aggressive and QB Contain at aggressive. That's what I did against UCLA at least. Now if a team that ran the spread option had a deadly HB instead of QB then I would set the Option at either conservative or balanced so my D would take away the HB. But against UCLA I set it at aggressive and shut down Hundley on those, granted their back did get about 150 yards or so on me but I still won the game 55-52.

As far as play calling to stop the option I just use a lot of zone blitzes and things.

ok so after making a change to a 4-2-5/4-4 hybrid with a base set of plays i have held Bama, Stanford, and TAMU to under 50...

come out in 4-2-5 Normal Cover 3 as base, set an audible to 4-4 2 Deep and another to 4-4 Crash Gold

i am spreading DL and crashing (making sure to flip the play so that the Crash Gold blitz comes from the side the HB is on... then use the ILB that is bitzing to plug the hold of the give (using Option Aggressive to take QB)

the 2 deep covers some pass well, but that is your downhill stopper as it was in years past

i also have 4-2-5 Okie Across Bullets Double B and make sure to not press gives your DB's to jump those pass routes... if facing a mobile QB contain 1 DE and manually blitz a LB away from him to contain manually and bring heat

i also have Smokes from 4-2-5 Normal and will swap up between that and SS Eagle Zone so that the Dogs both blitz and one gives me zone behind it

:ps3tri: : 4-4 - 2 Deep

:ps3x:: 4-2-5 Normal - Smokes (can use this or that 4-4 Crash Gold)

:ps3sq:: 4-2-5 Normal - SS Eagle Zone

:ps3R1:: 4-2-5 - Max Zone

:ps3L1:: 4-2-5 Okie Across - Bullets Double B

so far that is keeping any run game i face in check... i have give up completely on any of my old 3 man front stuff... i still face a bad assignment here and there, but quick adjustments take care of it... also i base align about every formation even when its man to bait mostly but more to discourage the running game

I am also have a ton of problems with the 3 man front i have loved for years whether it was the 3-4 or the 3-3-5. I am making the transition to the 4-2-5 as well and used the outside blitz with the safety to the RB side of the formation and it has helped a ton just as GURU explained above.

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Originally Posted by xGRIDIRONxGURUx

ok so after making a change to a 4-2-5/4-4 hybrid with a base set of plays i have held Bama, Stanford, and TAMU to under 50...

come out in 4-2-5 Normal Cover 3 as base, set an audible to 4-4 2 Deep and another to 4-4 Crash Gold

i am spreading DL and crashing (making sure to flip the play so that the Crash Gold blitz comes from the side the HB is on... then use the ILB that is bitzing to plug the hold of the give (using Option Aggressive to take QB)

the 2 deep covers some pass well, but that is your downhill stopper as it was in years past

i also have 4-2-5 Okie Across Bullets Double B and make sure to not press gives your DB's to jump those pass routes... if facing a mobile QB contain 1 DE and manually blitz a LB away from him to contain manually and bring heat

i also have Smokes from 4-2-5 Normal and will swap up between that and SS Eagle Zone so that the Dogs both blitz and one gives me zone behind it

:ps3tri: : 4-4 - 2 Deep

:ps3x:: 4-2-5 Normal - Smokes (can use this or that 4-4 Crash Gold)

:ps3sq:: 4-2-5 Normal - SS Eagle Zone

:ps3R1:: 4-2-5 - Max Zone

:ps3L1:: 4-2-5 Okie Across - Bullets Double B

so far that is keeping any run game i face in check... i have give up completely on any of my old 3 man front stuff... i still face a bad assignment here and there, but quick adjustments take care of it... also i base align about every formation even when its man to bait mostly but more to discourage the running game

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Thanks for the info Guru... am a 3-3-5 user and have been taking your concepts above and x-reffing them to similar 3-3-5 formations and plays... here is what I am currently labbing for audibles...

3-3-5 split cover 2 (will try same look from Okie formation but split seems like a better match)
3-3-5 split SS blitz
3-3-5 split storm red
3-3-5 Across cover 3 max
3-3-5 Across Middle Blitz

Will have to tinker with pre snap adjustments to get the same run fits and contains but hoping this will translate to the 3-3-5. Will post results later... thx again!

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Originally Posted by Coach TA

Thanks for the info Guru... am a 3-3-5 user and have been taking your concepts above and x-reffing them to similar 3-3-5 formations and plays... here is what I am currently labbing for audibles...

3-3-5 split cover 2 (will try same look from Okie formation but split seems like a better match)
3-3-5 split SS blitz
3-3-5 split storm red
3-3-5 Across cover 3 max
3-3-5 Across Middle Blitz

Will have to tinker with pre snap adjustments to get the same run fits and contains but hoping this will translate to the 3-3-5. Will post results later... thx again!

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Trying these out. Will post later!

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Originally Posted by starter

I’m having problem with the 3-4 run fits.

Last night against CPU I get gashed to the outside with I –Twins Power O. I go to the replay and notice that the run fits are all screwed up.

SS has the TE in man and is the force player. At the snap HE JUMPS INTO THE “B” GAP!!!!!!! That was last played I played for the night, as I just couldn’t take it. The sad thing is that the exact same scenario worked perfectly in NCAA13. I would see guard pulling and get on their heels and make the play because the force was there. Now I don’t know what to do. Fundamental defensive football principles do not apply to NCAA14.

IMO, Defense starts with:
Alignment and Assignment

EA cannot get the alignments correct and player’s assignments are not programmed correctly.

My read option answer is to put the “option” adjustment on aggressive. This makes the option player take the QB. Then I play the run. Removes the guessing game.

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I would suggest to place your option adjustment to conservative. This tells your D to play the back on option plays. When the read option is run, the defender being read, usually the D-end, will always attack the running back. That means the QB will keep the ball 90% of the time. If you play as he middle linebacker and attack the QB running off the end it should make for a fairly easy tackle in space. The rest of your d will crash on the running back so both options are covered.

Ive simply found that using a couple zone plays in the basic 3-4 playbook have helped occasionally.. spying one or two LBs or manning one up with a RB.

I'm sure some real football applies here and there but I'm just a sports fan and a football video game fan enough to where I'm looking for something that works/seems to work.

and for now it seems that as good as o-line blocking is and how they seem to have dumbed down defenders for certain plays.
Its better to have 4 guys who aren't down-linemen running around.


...aggressive zones might help too but I hate using that for fear of deep chucks

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Originally Posted by johntom2000

Trying these out. Will post later!

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Swapped out the SS blitz with the bear formation SS man blitz... gets better edge pressure and option containment... Will be a bit of a giveaway against other users though... :(

Shut down louisville with san jose state in a online game. Thank you for the helpful tips on slowing down the run with the 4-2-5

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Originally Posted by smallschoolbuilder

Shut down louisville with san jose state in a online game. Thank you for the helpful tips on slowing down the run with the 4-2-5

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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welcome

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by ram29jackson

Ive simply found that using a couple zone plays in the basic 3-4 playbook have helped occasionally.. spying one or two LBs or manning one up with a RB.

I'm sure some real football applies here and there but I'm just a sports fan and a football video game fan enough to where I'm looking for something that works/seems to work.

and for now it seems that as good as o-line blocking is and how they seem to have dumbed down defenders for certain plays.
Its better to have 4 guys who aren't down-linemen running around.


...aggressive zones might help too but I hate using that for fear of deep chucks

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Though I haven't been horribly torched by the run game in my coach mode games I do seem to notice how when my LBs can get free (more speed) we're more apt to stuff the CPU run game than when I have a lineman trying to chase down a back.

Now, what kind of tips to you have to slow down the passing game. There ALWAYS seems to be a man open even though I try to run more man lately because of it.

against the CPU... it is very hard so far to be consistent... vs USERS i will change up between some nickel normal and nickel 2-4-5... when i go 2-4-5 i like to call over storm brave and hot route LB's to zone that are blitzing... so that i have man over top and z good zone under... confusing for the USER to read quick, and if alignment tells him man, he will look for slant/mesh and you can usually get a pick from him throwing where he thinks nobody should be... just one of those things where you have to work on your play calling skills... but vs CPU... i try to put pressure on a bit but, again... as usual it is extremely hard to be consistent

I been having success with the 3-3-5 split mixing up playing calling bring 9 in the box.

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Originally Posted by xGRIDIRONxGURUx

i have had it on QB the entire time since demo... guys that's not the answer

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Kinda that is If you use football common sense. Any team will take away one put of the problem and fill out the rest. I myself being like minded as you are and have played with the college ranks and coached. The thing you have to be aware of is the AWR of your ends. If their AWR is low they can still be sucked in even If the option defense is set to Agg. I have saw with my own eyes.

Grid, I have been using your setup and have had some success. Lately tho Ive been getting gashed up the middle. Regardless of what I do with the DL (pinch, Crash. etc) opponents have been hurting me with the give. Usually the player Im usering gets caught up in the wash, or gets stuck on a block and cant come off. Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by johntom2000

Kinda that is If you use football common sense. Any team will take away one put of the problem and fill out the rest. I myself being like minded as you are and have played with the college ranks and coached. The thing you have to be aware of is the AWR of your ends. If their AWR is low they can still be sucked in even If the option defense is set to Agg. I have saw with my own eyes.

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well if you have played and coached as you say then you know what my point is... football common sense doesn't translate to this game

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Originally Posted by johntom2000

Kinda that is If you use football common sense. Any team will take away one put of the problem and fill out the rest. I myself being like minded as you are and have played with the college ranks and coached. The thing you have to be aware of is the AWR of your ends. If their AWR is low they can still be sucked in even If the option defense is set to Agg. I have saw with my own eyes.

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i havent had that happen, but will tinker with a few things and see what comes of it... in the mean time pinch the DL and crash them and just try to get a few stops to scare them away from trying it a lot... that's a tough one, and again emphasizes my point, common sense football doesn't apply to this game

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Originally Posted by xGRIDIRONxGURUx

well if you have played and coached as you say then you know what my point is... football common sense doesn't translate to this game



i havent had that happen, but will tinker with a few things and see what comes of it... in the mean time pinch the DL and crash them and just try to get a few stops to scare them away from trying it a lot... that's a tough one, and again emphasizes my point, common sense football doesn't apply to this game

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I agree

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Originally Posted by johntom2000

I agree

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Count me in the number of those in agreement that there's no room for common sense football on the defensive side of things.


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