Multiple West Coast Offense?

So I've been reading this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Coaching-Multi.../dp/1585187399

It's a good read and I've learned more about football....so that's always a good thing. My question is does anyone run the WCO? I'm always looking for a good playbook and so far San Diego St, seems to have a lot of the formations mentioned in the book, mainly they are one of the only teams on the game that runs Split Pro and Far. USC runs some good WCO formations but doesn't have Far.

I guess I can try and create a custom pb combing a few, texas, San Diego St, and USC seem like it would be a good combination.

Any tips/suggestions thoughts?

Here's another good read:
http://www.topgunqbacademy.com/PDFsV...astOffense.pdf

I love running the WCO, but struggle to deal with some of the blocking issues in this year's game as it relates to FBs and pulling guards (which is a decent chunk of the WCO).

If you're going to create a Custom PB, add the extra plays that are in Split - Army Split but not in Split - Pro. There are some good plays there.

I'll have to check out Army's formation.

I created a good mixture for me. I took USC as my base playbook, deleted the wildcat formations and then added the FAR and Split Pro that SDSU PB has. I left all the other formations the same, then went into each and added the staple AIR RAID pass plays. So now I can work the ball WCO style chew some clock and have some nice long drives or I can go hurry-up no-huddle and run some AIR RAID.

I played my buddy tonight. I was WKU and he was Troy. We play a game a night and usually use the lower ranked teams. I brought the Multiple WCO with a taste of AIR RAID out on him and he wasn't sure what to do. It was nice b/c I could mix it up from series to series and keep him guessing.

In the end the Hilltoppers picked up the underdog win. :))

I might have to follow your lead there, gigem. I'm struggling to find an offense, but a mix of the WCO and Air Raid would be right up my alley, mentally. And what I'm really struggling with right now is remembering how to strategically call a game. I'm about to the point where I'm ready to just do Ask Coach for a game.

Well I think I need to work on it some more. Tonight I wanted to simplify things and just drop back to the AIR RAID. I took on my buddy in our usually 1 game per night darby. He was UTEP and I picked Rice. He made his own PB and was busting at the seems to break it out. It was different, so far we've played every night since the game came out and he's always used the A&M's air raid PB. Well his new created PB featured the wishbone, which was a BIG change for me to defend. All of a sudden I was having to stop the run. It felt like I was trying to stop ou of the Barry Switzer days.

In the end he picked up the W, he beat me 10-0. My QB struggled, I think a lot of times I didn't have my feet set to I wasn't getting good passes off. He kicked 1 FG and was up 3-0 at halftime. We each play decent defense and punt like you should in real life, not like they do in the lobby (or Don't do in the lobby I should say).

In the 3rd, he user big hit my TE on an out route and the TE fumbled the ball, he picked up the fumble and returned it 40 yards for the TD. So I thought all in all I did pretty good. I held him to 3 points on offense.

I need to practice more, learn the air raid better.

I found this on the "other site" a link to a good article. I'm going to install the Air Raid in 3 days at home. I figure if I take 3 days to learn those plays inside and out at the end of 3 days I should have a good idea of all the reads, situations, areas of the field to call said play...just an over all good handle on the Air Raid.

http://smartfootball.com/gameplannin...essful-offense

Then I'll do the same thing that is suggests w/ the Pro Style Offense using those plays as my base for my WCO.

It is nice to have a mixture of both. Tonight I felt like I wanted to run the ball more, maybe Rice is better suited for the spread run game. I was just really struggling w/ the passing game, i.e. out routes, the QB would throw the ball out of bounds, the WR wouldn't even have a chance to catch the ball.

Towards the end of the game, a few mins left in the 4th quarter I had the ball on the 2 yardline. I called a MESH and the left WR was running wide open along the goalline. I had my feet set, no pressure and threw it (pressed his icon) and the QB chunked the ball high and out the back of the endzone...we were both like, um.....ok....(we play using headsets so we can chat about football in general).

Anyways, once I get the 3-day install done on my Air Raid, then I'll implement the same for the Pro-style/WCO. Hopefully I can find some good breakdowns, link and reference other...more knowledgeable people than me so others can read and learn more if they like.

In the meantime, there's going to be some losses, but I still enjoy playing the game.

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

I might have to follow your lead there, gigem. I'm struggling to find an offense, but a mix of the WCO and Air Raid would be right up my alley, mentally. And what I'm really struggling with right now is remembering how to strategically call a game. I'm about to the point where I'm ready to just do Ask Coach for a game.

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Because of how incredibly easy it was to throw the ball in '12, I basically resorted to doing that so I'd actually change up what I was doing offensively instead of going back to some golden plays when I needed them. It helped some, but, especially with Custom Playbooks, the Ask Coach stuff can sometimes REALLY fuck stuff up.

As Nykia31 has pointed out in his NCAA13 videos the BYU playbook is a very good "mixture playbook". It has some WCO plays, along with Air Raid plays, along with PRO-style offense plays. I've been using it in my online dynasty with FIU and so far so good.

If you're like me and you like the Air Raid and you like the WCO but need a default PB that seems to have a nice mixture of both I'd really take a good look at the BYU PB. Other than making a "created a pb" it's a good compromise.

It's nice to have the Air Raid passing plays, but then have the option to go power run game, it's nice to be able to mix it up and keep the defense off balance.

When I play my buddy online I've been so AIR RAID here lately that he doesn't really have to play against the run and it's not like my run game is going to tear him up so it seems to be very once sided. If you were playing random opponents then I can see where the AIR RAID is fun, but when you play the same person all the time that gets a feeling for how you're going to call your game then it's not so good to be so one-sided. The BYU pb keeps them on their toes.

It's nice b/c even the under center formations still have AIR RAID passes so it's very easy to still do both.

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

I might have to follow your lead there, gigem. I'm struggling to find an offense, but a mix of the WCO and Air Raid would be right up my alley, mentally. And what I'm really struggling with right now is remembering how to strategically call a game. I'm about to the point where I'm ready to just do Ask Coach for a game.

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Jeff,

Been there buddy and I am back there again as I am switching to a Spread Style offense. Big thing I try to do is the same thing that coaches in real life are doing more of each year, and that is cutting down and shaving that playbook. There are so many plays with each formation of this game it is not even funny. Look at Dana at WVU, HE SHAVED IT DOWN to 8-10 plays that can be run out of several formations and when you add in motion, or just TAG a player, eg of tagging and one of my favorites is to come out in Verticals. Lets say you know the defense is in man coverage, you also know for example that "Y" has great speed and you got a mismatch, so you stay with Verticals but hot route "Y" on a shallow.
What you get by doing this is the other 3 receivers will be clearing out defenders and allowing Y to work the entire field to get sepration which in this situation is a mismatch. These are the kind of things that coaches in real life are doing now, cutting down on the number of plays but keeping the ones to help give their team an identity, and now have plenty of time of practicing these plays. The other thing that goes with cutting down on the plays is the ability to window dress these plays, in other words run them out of as many formations and if you wish add motion to look as though you are doing alot but in fact you are not.

Coaching buddy and myself were talking about this very thing, and how all the good teams or good offensive teams really dont do alot, its how effectively they do it, and how efectively they hide the fact that they are doing it over and over again fromso many different looks. The Colts with Manning and Tom Moore were very simplistic, everybody in the league including themselves will tell you that they didnt run alot of concepts but it was how well they practiced them, ran the right ones with the defense at hand, packaged the right people to get the ball to when need be.

Really and truly how many plays do you really need? Look at the environment you play in. I used to give some of those tourney players a hard time because they adapted that "base play" theory. I laughed and said what the hell is this? you are coming out in the same play every play and if you see something you might audible to one of the other plays in your scheme? It took me a while until finally a friend wanted me to help him with a scheme for an upcoming tourney. I said from the get go we need some base plays and then surround those base plays with others in that formation. He said I have a base, I said thats your only base call you are going to come out in over and over? He said my God Irish, we only play 2 minute quarters for this tournament! Finally I understood this same play theory and although I still dont understand fully why some guys come out with the same play all game long, I do however understand where they are going with this theory.

Now, we have had a couple of new guys who were heavy ranked online players and guys who lived the tourney scheme come in our custom leagues and try to do the same thing using both 6 and 7 minute quarters and they very quickly change their approach to calling plays because of this new environment. They had to adjust because coming out in the same play every down using 6-7 minute quarters and playing these guys 4-5 times maybe more shoots that approach out the window. Guys adhere to the tourney scheme playing in custom leagues will find out very quick that it wont be long before the defense starts calling the offensive plays for you because of the trails you often look for and lead to when audibling from that same base play every down for 7 minute quarters, this has never worked for league play but for tourneys and ranked online where you have shorten quarters and maybe you have never seen your opponent and might not ever again, then yes the sane base play theory i get where you are going with it. I still could call plays that way.

Jeff, let me let you in to what I have enjoyed doing the last year and a half that will not only help you with your play calling, but will also get you more involved than you have ever been before strategically speaking.

I have been more of a formation based caller instead of a specific play. Lets face it, the days when you huddle, call a specific play and then come to the LOS and run that play no matter what the defense is doing are OVER on all levels INCLUDING High School football! Coaches now want to run the play tht gives them the highest percentage of success with each snap. To do this you must, and I hate to use this phrase but it is very much true, "take what the defense gives you". Now down and distance, score, time left in the game also are evaluated in the decision making process. My answer to this problem is simple, have a scheme for every formation you are going to use in your playbook. Not hard, not hard at all, but no way can you run 200 plays, you wont run that many in 4 games! But a scheme that consists of those basics that will allow you to move the chains and can befound at your fingertips through the formation audibles as well as your regular audibles. Remeber the base play theory adopted by the tourney guys? It could work here and if you are using 8 different formations that would mean you have 8 base plays.
The play really is being used to get that formation on the field but at the same time it could be the outside run in that scheme for that formation that already has an inside run in the formation audibles. Or is could be a man beater that you use for a set that already has zone beaters in its audibles. This play or plays that you come out in with each formation represent part of the scheme not available in your audibles that may or not be used after looking over the defense. It also represents the formation you are coming out in with this specific rime in the game.

I love this pjilosophy and I will have 1-3 base calls that I will always come out in when using a specific set. All the other plays in your audibles MUST be memorized for a scheme to transpire effectively. I very seldom audible out of a formation anymore because I have planned my schemes within this formation based call philosophy to meet and have an answer to everything the defense throws at me. I dont know what play I am going to run post snap, that depends on what the defense allows me. I am not going to run the football just because I came out in a run play vs 8 or 9 in the box, thats not high percentage, and thats not very smart.

I guess maybe the tourney guys by coming out in the same play every down were thinking like I am with the idea of getting to the LOS and then making the right calls and adjustments. Speaking of adjustments hot routing during all of this is also very important. If you know it is zone and you have the abuility to hot route a cover 3 beater to the right, and a cover 2 beter to the left this si what is called playing high perentage.l

With the formation based philosophy some key points I want to stress are,

1. develop your formations in a way that you have an answer to everything when you come out in this set. If this is a power run set and an inside run play is already in your formation audibles you might sense this is your power run set have a counter play from this set in your regular audibles. Now you can come out in an off tackle play or outside run and when the defense lets you know pre snap what they will be giving you, you have a method of run that can attack inside, off tackle/outside, and a counter. You dont need this for every formation , some sets are passing sets and you only need a DRAW play for those who have not respected the box.

I have so much more if interested or if anybody else is, it will change the way you think, it will get you involved alot more from a strategic standpoint, and it will lead to the diminishing of unwanted or lower percentage play calls. You can win with this theory and it is fun. Just need to cutback on some plays which would be a real life tactic. Quick example I can throw a deep, intermediate, and short pass concept and run these from at least 5 other formations in a specific playbook with VERTICALS, CURL/FLAT, STICK, throw MESH in there and you have both man and zone beaters designed to attack 3 different levels of the playing field. Running these same plays out of 5-6 other formations will make you look like you are running 20-25 plays just running those when really and truly you are running 3-4 plays. I run about 15 -18 plays, still way too many plays, dont need that many. Remember by tagging with hot routing this too will make you look like you but are running alot of different plays but you are not, just reread the example I gave you with VERTICALS y under, or z x h under.

By cutting down what you do on offense the better you will get in reading and knowing what to look for in your opponents defense. Now spend more time like real life on ways of packaging different players to specific spots in formations to create mismatches, advantage offense!
I know a guy who took all this in and has put his own spin on it. He has the sets he wants to use and has specific plays in his regular audibles which are apart of the formation scheme so that he always comes out in a formation with a Screen Pass! 7 formations he uses, 7 different screen passes. Most of them are the same technically but out of a different look due to formation but now he has the oppurtunity to run a screen anytime hewants regardless of the formation, and he has it to as many different players depending on set (WR screen, hb screen, Y Screen gets SG TRIPS TE on the field) while MIDDLE SCREEN for example gets SG 4 WR SPREAD to the los, the other important facets needed are a man beater, zone beater, inside run, outside run if a power set, if a pass set then just make sure you have at least a run play to check to when the box is depleted.

I gope this helps you my friend or anybody else that took the time to read. Everybodys formation scheme will be different for the most part, but once again you have to call a specific play to get that formation on the field. I like to have 1-3 plays not found in my audibles.
This should help narrow your play calling down tremendously.

Let me know if you or anybody likes, I have some more and maybe we can start a thread for this one method alone for play calling

irish

Irish, thanks a ton for that very nice post.

And you hit the nail on the head with several of my problems. When I make a custom book, I have a tendency to add all the plays in a formation because, for every play in there, I can say "Oh, I might need that _______". That's nuts. I'm never going to call some of those plays, and I know it.

There are several things that I both want to do and need to do in order to be successful on 13, but my free time is getting less and less right now, and I'm barely getting enough time to compete in the Powerhouse OD as it is. I have a couple ideas on how I could create a solid custom PB that I'd be comfortable with, but I need to get focused and do it quickly.

Once again searching playbooks....if I spent 1/2 the time playing a dynasty as I do on the practice field I'd be done with atleast 1 if not more seasons.....

Play: Green Right Strong Slot Spider 2 Y Banana

Info on play: http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/...der-2-y-banana

The link provides the reads to the play.

In the Stanford PB you can find this play in:

F Pair Twins as the PA FL Dive, to make the play match exactly you need to:
- hot route X on a 9 (streak route)
- hot route Z on a 6 (crossing route)

I-Form: Twins Flex PA FB Flat
- hot route X on a 9

Strong I: H Pro PA Power O
- motion Z to the left and hot route on a 6
- hot route X on a 9

From the San Diego St PB (also a PRO style) this play can be found in:

I-Form: Twins PA Power O
- hot route X on a 9

I-Form: Normal PA Power O
- motion Z to the left and hot route on a 6
- hot route X on a 9

Weak I: Twins PA Power O
- no adjustments needed

USC PB

I-Form: Twins PA Power O
- hot route X on a 9

I-Form: Twins PA TE Out
- hot route X on a 9

Strong I: Twins Flex PA Power O
- hot route X on a 9
- hot route Z on a 6
NOTE: if the play is left as drawn up the X and Z will cause a "switch" leaving X in a nice void in the middle of the field.

Play: Brown Right F Short 2 Jet Flanker Drive

Info and reads: http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/...-flanker-drive

Stanford PB

Strong I: H Pro Z Spot
-package sub RB SWAP
- hotroute X on a 9
- hotroute Y on a 8 (do this by putting him on an IN towards the left, then SMART ROUTE him)

I like to run the play this way, as Z still has his auto-motion and he sits down on the right while Y keep running a deeper crossing route

OR: you can hot route Y to a 2 (In route to the left) and send him in motion to the left hiking the ball prior to him reaching Y


San Diego St PB and USC PB

Strong I: Normal FL Drive
- package sub RB SWAP
- hot route X on a 9

So here's what I'm confused about. I'm reading this book http://www.amazon.com/Coaching-Multi.../dp/1585187399 and it shows images of the different sets.

What is calls NEAR and FAR, NCAA 13 calls Strong I and Weak I. And what the book calls Strong I and Weak I the game would call Far. I cannot find Near in any NCAA playbook. I can make Near by flipping the play and motioning the TE to the right.

Is NCAA labeling them incorrect Or is the book just using different terminology? I've always thought a Strong I looked like this:

http://playbooks2012.com/images/ncaa...0I%2000003.jpg

and I Far would look like this:

http://playbooks2012.com/images/ncaa...AR%2000000.jpg


Which is how NCAA 13 has them. These are exactly opposite in this book, which is a book written about the WCO. :dunno:

Quote:

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as it relates to FBs and pulling guards (which is a decent chunk of the WCO).

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Jeff, yes, the FBs still suck on the sliders I'm using by the way. As I guessed, it was the lower CPU run defense slider that "fixed" it, but when playing some teams with awesome/aggressive Ds, the return of the LBs crashing through a hole and killing my RB for a loss while the FB blindly ignored the LB was still there.

Interestingly, I've had them do brilliant on tosses and generally pretty good on power off-tackle and stretches.

Working on my Multiple WCO PB, so far here are the formations I have included:

Ace Big
Ace Bunch
Ace F Pair Twins
Ace Slot Flex
Ace Slot HB Str
Ace Spread
Ace Y-Trips
Empty Flex Trey Open
Far Pro
I From Normal
I Form Twins
Power I Strong
Shotgun Double Flex
Shotgun Split Offset
Shotgun Trio Open
Shotgun Y-Trips HB WK
Split Backs Army Split
Split Backs Pro
Strong I Normal
Strong I Twins Flex
Weak I Normal
Weak Twins Flex

Still a work in progress.....

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Originally Posted by AustinWolv

Jeff, yes, the FBs still suck on the sliders I'm using by the way. As I guessed, it was the lower CPU run defense slider that "fixed" it, but when playing some teams with awesome/aggressive Ds, the return of the LBs crashing through a hole and killing my RB for a loss while the FB blindly ignored the LB was still there.

Interestingly, I've had them do brilliant on tosses and generally pretty good on power off-tackle and stretches.

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What did you lower CPU run defense to?

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Originally Posted by souljahbill

What did you lower CPU run defense to?

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15.
I'm using the Heisman set here, although I'm probably going to make some minor, minor changes (like adjusting by just 5) to some things:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...r-project.html
Games have been a lot of fun. Definite difference in playing at home versus the road. I'd like to make the CPU run game a little more realistic (the end-of-game numbers aren't too bad but their run game feels a bit too strong but a bit too inconsistent.....they get chunk gains or no gains, and I have to blitz way too much in order to have any chance of run stops), while down-powering their passing game just a touch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gigemaggs99

Working on my Multiple WCO PB, so far here are the formations I have included:

Ace Big
Ace Bunch
Ace F Pair Twins
Ace Slot Flex
Ace Slot HB Str
Ace Spread
Ace Y-Trips
Empty Flex Trey Open
Far Pro
I From Normal
I Form Twins
Power I Strong
Shotgun Double Flex
Shotgun Split Offset
Shotgun Trio Open
Shotgun Y-Trips HB WK
Split Backs Army Split
Split Backs Pro
Strong I Normal
Strong I Twins Flex
Weak I Normal
Weak Twins Flex

Still a work in progress.....

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Strong list there. Looks good in general.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gigemaggs99

Play: Green Right Strong Slot Spider 2 Y Banana

Info on play: http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2012/...der-2-y-banana

The link provides the reads to the play.

In the Stanford PB you can find this play in:

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Hilarious, and a little weird, to me that this play was featured on the Making NCAA Football 13 episode on ESPNU, and the playbook guys were telling David Shaw "this a play you call Spider 2 Y Banana" ... yet to make it the right play, you have to hot route guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

Hilarious, and a little weird, to me that this play was featured on the Making NCAA Football 13 episode on ESPNU, and the playbook guys were telling David Shaw "this a play you call Spider 2 Y Banana" ... yet to make it the right play, you have to hot route guys.

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What I love about that scene is one of the Stanford coaches mentioned making the Sam linebacker react in a more realistic way, Anthony White said, "we've got our AI guys working on that now".

This is a nice article albeit the typos are amazing....I liked this part, Jeff, like you I have WAY TOO MANY plays and formations. I think I should take this approach,

"you don’t need a thousand plays. You need a core set of plays that fit together. You don’t need 15 versions of the same flat pass and no good Cover 4 beater. My recommendation is to limit yourself when running the West Coast Offense at lower levels by picking around 10 or so pass plays and 5-6 run plays (along with screens, bootlegs, and other constraint plays)......You must then figure out a systematic way to mesh your playcalls, play-action, and so on in both a huddle and no-huddle environment, and then get your Vince Lombardi on and simply practice these plays repeatedly until you get unbelievable at them. Remember, it’s a waste of time to practice and install plays that will not get used, and I’d argue it’s just as much of a waste to practice plays that you only use a few times. " from this article: http://smartfootball.com/gameplannin...esides-the-nfl

Yep. I've read that article more than once. Doesn't help me though :D

I blame the fact that I have to worry about going up against schematic geniuses like Oneback.

I might be (MIGHT BE being the key) getting the hang of this offense. Short quick passing, working the TE over, putting in multiple TEs with sub packages and then bushing big runs. It worked well tonight.

passing: 22-30, 238yards 4 TDs, 1 int
rushing: 19 attempts, 108 yards, 2 TDs.
Red Zone 5-5 all TDs
Time of poss (5 min quarters) 14:36
the kicker....3rd down conversion 10-11 (90%) :nod:

It's really fun to come out in something like Twins weak, bust a HUGE run and then a few plays later come back to it, opponent guesses run commit left thinking the run is coming again and I throw a quick slant to a WIDE OPEN WR. :cool:

Yep, Gus, you're definitely getting the hang of it. :nod: Setting up your opponent into over committing is exactly the beauty of offenses like this.

Question about a playbook:

I was watching some ESPNU yesterday and they were showing the Alabama vs South Carolina game from 2010. SC upset bama but I was really liking the Bama offense. They kept talking about how it's a slow grind it out offense and it takes what the defense gives....would they be considered WCO style? I'm kinda thinking no b/c they seem to be a run heavy or power run team...but is that b/c they have a great O-line? When they go pass the ball it seems like quick short passes similar to the WCO passes. I understand bama has a great defense and I guess that is what Sabin is known for but their offense looked very balanced.

Bama's isn't a true WCO, but the theory behind taking what the defense gives is very WCO-like. But, being more realistic, taking what the defense gives is a very traditional offensive philosophy, not limited to just the WCO.

Bama is, through and through, a one-back offense. They use power running principles within a One Back Spread scheme.



On another note, Gus, it must have been another thread where you and I were discussing play # overkill in our Custom Books. I didn't intentionally follow Irish's post earlier in this thread, but the end result is along the lines of what he advocated. Last night I played an OD game against Escobar, and I called 95% of the game from a single formation. If you were able to find a formation like that, that you were willing to call the entire game in, that could go a long way toward reducing your playbook #s.

My current plan is basically to run 3 different playbooks, each 60-70 plays, that represent three different offensive philosophies that I love. Then combine those three into a single master book that would allow me to switch on demand between the concepts. I don't know if it will work, but that's the plan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

Bama's isn't a true WCO, but the theory behind taking what the defense gives is very WCO-like. But, being more realistic, taking what the defense gives is a very traditional offensive philosophy, not limited to just the WCO.

Bama is, through and through, a one-back offense. They use power running principles within a One Back Spread scheme.



On another note, Gus, it must have been another thread where you and I were discussing play # overkill in our Custom Books. I didn't intentionally follow Irish's post earlier in this thread, but the end result is along the lines of what he advocated. Last night I played an OD game against Escobar, and I called 95% of the game from a single formation. If you were able to find a formation like that, that you were willing to call the entire game in, that could go a long way toward reducing your playbook #s.

My current plan is basically to run 3 different playbooks, each 60-70 plays, that represent three different offensive philosophies that I love. Then combine those three into a single master book that would allow me to switch on demand between the concepts. I don't know if it will work, but that's the plan.

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Freaking amazing! This is what I'm currently working on. I like the WCO (USC, San Diego St, Stanford PB's) and I like some of the spread run so I'm trying to limit my CPB. This is wild how this is what I'm working on while I came here to read up some more.

Good luck sir! :up:

Not sure if this is really MWCO but here goes....

Has anyone else had an issue with their QB getting really bad towards the end of the game?

I'm running the WCO my own CPB with USC as a base PB or I just use the USC PB. I will be having a great game, using Kent St in my OD. We are playing on AA default sliders so my QB should be set at 50 as are all the other settings. The only thing we have changed is the game speed is set to slow.

Well my QB will be doing great the entire game, 29/35 or something to that effect. Then when I'm down or need it he starts overthrowing wide open WRs like a freak show. I've even put in the backup and he overthrows them too.

I came out in Ace Slot, it was vs cover 2 so I hotroute the slot WR to a streak, the FS covers the outside WR so my slot WR is WIDE OPEN I press the triangle like normal, just like I always do and the QB will overthrow him by a good 30 yards. I can user switch to the WR but I can never sprint enough to even have a chance at catching the ball.

2nd down, I go Strong I PA Power O, the Z WR is running a streak, the CPU is in Cover 3 and this time the Z WR is WIDE OPEN running downfield, again the QB overthrows him by a good 30+ yards.

3rd down, I go Ace Slot-Flex again the CPU comes out in cover 2, I hotroute the Slot WR on a streak, again he's WIDE OPEN and the QB unleashes a 50+ yard bomb that no one has a chance at catching.

4th I punt....

Does anyone else have this problem? It only seems to happen in the 4th quarter when I'm behind, well sort of the ONLY other time I see it, is prior to the end of the 2nd quarter. I stopped the CPU and had the ball with :02 remaining I figured why not...so I did the Strong I PA Power O and again the Z WR is wide open, the QB overthrows him by so much it's not even funny. :bang:

One thing I will say since picking up Madden 10 and in Madden 12, the QB's don't have this "all of a sudden can't throw issue"...maybe it's just part of the game...who knows. It's just annoying to know how to attack the Defense and call the proper plays yet 3 straight plays the QB decides he's trying to win a Longest throw competition.

I've seen it. EJ Manuel on FSU has the problem frequently, at least with me at the controls he did. However, I haven't seen it effect both the starter and the backup ... when I put my backup in, he didn't have the problem at all.

My personal favorite so far is, more than once, I've called Y-Trips Strong Flood. Thrown the out route, and ended up completing it to the streak. More than once.

As much as I like the CPB feature, for some reason I want to use a teams' pb, maybe I have a mental block or something. So I've been going back and forth between USC, San Diego St, and Stanford's PBs. I've also been looking into Syracuse, they have a nice one.

I don't really want a Pro style WCO style PB that has the wildcat. This is the only thing that turns me away from USC's, it seems like they could have more Ace or something good besides the Wildcat. On top of that they have 2 different wildcat formations. Maybe they have those formations b/c in real life they have them so they can promise more players, more STAR athletes that they will get to play.

Standford is nice b/c of the Fullhouse formation.

Syracuse is nice b/c they don't have much SG and I'm more of an old-school WCO guy. Looking into Bill Walsh's stuff he didn't seem to have much SG if any at all. When I was a kid I watched the 49ers, Joe Montana was the man when I was a kid, I don't remember them going into the SG much until Steve Young came along.

San Diego St is nice, but I'm not sure why they include the FAR formation but no NEAR. It seems like most teams that have a Strong I also have a Weak I. They seem to go hand in hand. I do like the Split Pro though, it seems like a good formation to feel out the defense as it's pretty balanced.

Another thing I like in NCAA 13 vs playing Madden 10 and 12 (which I picked up just the other day) is you can pump fake to a certain WR in NCAA 13 to pull the defense "away". I like this feature a lot, hopefully Madden 13 will allow you to pump to a certain WR. Madden 10 and 12 it's just a basic fake throw move but it doesn't aim a any one certain WR or side of the field.

Another thing I'm trying to figure out with the WCO, I've heard and read that in order for it to work well you need a good HB. I'm not sure if you need a HB with SPEED or one with POWER. Seems like Roger Craig was both, but then again most NFL HBs are monsters so that doesn't really tell you much in terms of applying it to the NCAA video game.

It seems like Stanford had Toby Gerhart a few seasons back, I'm not sure if he was a speed guy or a power guy...then again he's in the NFL now so he's probably a little of both. I just know with my Kent St squad I have more of a power back and he is either on or off. If he can't break tackles I can't get the running game going.

Gus, if you want to feel like you're using a team's PB, what I've been doing is using the playbooks2012.com site to take formations (and plays selected within those formations) from multiple playbooks. Like I'll have the Ace-Slot plays from one playbook, and then the Shotgun Normal Y-Slot plays from another playbook. It's allowed me to create a unique playbook that fits my playstyle without having to pick and choose my own plays and take the time involved.

I run the Rutgers PB slightly modified, and it seems to offer a good balance as a Pro/WCO option.

What I have in it includes;

ACE
Big
Bunch Base (Perhaps my favorite formation)
Slot Flex (PA TE Screen)
Tackle Over (Power O and PA HB Wheel ALL DAY)
Twin TE
Y Trips

I FORM
Normal
Slot
Tight
Twin TE

PISTOL
4WR Trips (Mainly as package for Chas Dodd who was a Spread/Pistol QB in HS)

SHOTGUN
4WR TRIO STR
Normal HB WK
Normal Y Flex
Split Y Flex (LOVE THE 2 HBs in the backfield)
Trio Open

STRONG I
Normal
Twins Flex
Y Flex

WEAK I
Normal
Twins Flex

WILDCAT
Fight Song (Package to get Jeremy Deering in space)

Cool ideas.

Jeff, I like the idea of mixing and matching it, plus like you said it won't take all night to get it put together.

Petey, thanks for sharing the PB. I played against Rutgers and they got me looking at their PB so I'll take a look at what you've put together there.

For me, I really enjoy under-center plays. I once read about the air raid that if you're afraid to go 100% SG then you're afraid to go true air raid, I know that's just one opinion but I feel the same with regards to the WCO. Bill Walsh didn't have any SG if I'm not mistaken.

?, since Bill O'Brien came from the Patriots is the NCAA 13 pb similar to last years Madden 12 Patriot's PB? I looked on the NCAAPlaybook site and last year's Penn St. PB was different than this years. I was just wondering if this years was more like the Pats of Madden '12.

I really enjoyed the style of the Penn State offense yesterday. Could have done with less turnovers, seems like Belton needs to learn how to hold the ball closer to his body. The way he was carrying it yesterday it looked like every play could have been a fumble (seems like in the past they have called that "carrying it like a loaf of bread"). Otherwise I liked the offense!

I would like to find a good breakdown of the play they ran to the TE, the one they compared to the Patriots, EDIT: maybe the PA Power O from a few of the different formations could be the ones.

There's definitely some unique formations in the Penn State playbook, and I think it does have some similarities to the Patriots Madden 12 playbook. Or, at least, to what the Patriots actually ran in 2011.

Here is a nice free read, which is very similar to the book, Coaching the Multiple West Coast Offense

http://www.centuryinter.net/midway/c...tcoast/wco.pdf

I really like the section that defines defensive terms, as I've always wondered what is the difference between things like "Even Front vs Odd Front".

I've been on the practice field again and have had pretty good success with this in my offline dynasty. I've been using Florida's, Stanford, and San Diego St's PB since they have either the X Sluggo or Double Sluggo plays in their books.

I work the slants and quick slants to death along w/ the Curl Flats until the defense starts pressing and playing my WRs tight. Then I call one of these sluggo plays and it's wild, along w/ the Pump FAKE the WR will be WIDE open on the deep out/fade pattern.

Once you hit a few deep ones I come out in the same formations and run draws, then it's BOOM huge gains up the gut.

I've also cleaned up my overthrow issue I was seeing later in the games when I thought my QB was on steroids. Once again it was MY USER ERROR. I was getting excited and thinking I needed to lead the WR a little so I would slightly press UP on the left stick causing the horrible deep overthrow. Once I started just pressing the Wide OPEN WRs icon the QB hits him in stride usually for a walk in TD.

Also have been working on something else with motion and ball/field position. Sometimes I end up shooting myself in the foot when I have the ball the left hash for example and I've called a passing play where the X receiver is running an out route. He'll make his break but as I fire the ball to him it's usually incomplete b/c it's to close to the sidelines. To fix this I've been trying to throw to the wide side of the field only but this takes away 1/3 to 1/2 of my receivers.

Tonight on the practice field I tried motioning the X WR to the right, basically he'll move in to give the formation a "tight or close" look. This gives him enough room to now make his cut to the outside and when I throw the pass to him he still has time to get 1 or both feet in.

The play I was using was out of the San Diego St PB Strong I Normal Angle. Motion the X to the right to give him room to make his cut on his 3 route.

I finally found a way to make the NEAR formation this year in NCAA 13.

Out of the Stanford PB, Power I Strong X Slant. Motion the HB out of the backfield. Then you can hot-route your receivers all over the place to attack the defense. This of course is only a passing play and you can't run out of it, but it does give an old familiar look to the WCO.

Another nice little wrinkle is the Pistol Full House, motion the HB to either slot and hot route him to any pass pattern. It gives a nice SG Split/pistol look. Running the HB off tackle a few times with this motion added, then running PA X Post again with this HB motion to the slots opens up the field nicely giving the defense headaches.

If you motion the deep back to the right-slot out of this Pistol Full House and run the triple option it then turns into a Slot triple option. :nod:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gigemaggs99

Another nice little wrinkle is the Pistol Full House, motion the HB to either slot and hot route him to any pass pattern. It gives a nice SG Split/pistol look. Running the HB off tackle a few times with this motion added, then running PA X Post again with this HB motion to the slots opens up the field nicely giving the defense headaches.

If you motion the deep back to the right-slot out of this Pistol Full House and run the triple option it then turns into a Slot triple option. :nod:

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:+1:

Great article. I wish my Browns would hire that guy, because, the guys they have now clearly don't understand how to develop an Offense :(