Recruit's Weight Still Random and Unrealistic

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07-24-2011, 08:18 AM
Rudy

Recruit's Weight Still Random and Unrealistic

It appears that recruits weight are still not tied to their abilities this year. NCAA 11 was the same way. It makes for very unrealistic recruits and appearances imo. I saw a DE on the recruit list who is 6'5" and 198 pounds and he's listed as a run stopper. Please EA! How on earth can a guy that skinny be listed as a run stopper! He's skinnier than me! I know I tested this last year and every positions ratings were completely independent of their weight. This needs to change.

I proposed a weight formula that would use a few key ratings to help generate a more accurate weight for the player. I did a sample spreadsheet that would project RB and OL weights a little more accurately. (RB - https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hl=en_US#gid=2).

At the very least EA should adjust their weight ranges for recruits based on the type of player they are. For example, if DE's have a weight range of 195 to 275 pounds (EA does have different weight ranges for position) then they should use 195 to 235 for pass rusher, 215 to 255 for balanced and 235 to 275 for run stopper. This should be done for all positions based on tendency. Create the recruit and then generate the weight based on a range appropriate for their skills/tendencies. I don't know if they can patch it but I flat out refuse to recruit a DE like that because it is so unrealistic. I want to move to a 3-4 and I can't have a DE weighing 198 pounds. I refuse to accept this.
07-24-2011, 08:26 AM
Unconquered

I couldn't agree more. This has been going on for years and it's ridiculous. Why can't they just set realistic parameters for each position? It's not like EA has a lack of source material, either; they edit hundreds of players each year, so they should know there aren't any 6'5", 198-pound run-stopping DEs in the league.

Of course, this would be less of an issue if we were allowed to edit player height/weight in dynasty.
07-24-2011, 10:42 AM
Pig Bomb

please somone with a connection pass this on to the dynasty guy....come on this is crazy to be still going on
07-24-2011, 11:27 AM
jaymo76

Indirect tie in but I found it really dissapointing that we are still NOT allowed to edit height and weight. I wonder if this could be addressed in a second patch???
07-24-2011, 12:14 PM
gschwendt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pig Bomb

please somone with a connection pass this on to the dynasty guy....come on this is crazy to be still going on

It has already been passed on to EA... essentially with the idea of ensuring that if a recruit is generated with a tendency, then he has minimums & maximums for weight, particularly along the DL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaymo76

Indirect tie in but I found it really dissapointing that we are still NOT allowed to edit height and weight. I wonder if this could be addressed in a second patch???

I've passed that along as well seeing as that was a large part of the request for editing capability. Not certain if it can be changed in a patch or not but they are at least aware.
07-24-2011, 12:15 PM
Undefeated

I just recruit for size then edit ratings to reflect size.

OP is still spot-on, though.
07-24-2011, 06:29 PM
morsdraconis

Meh, I don't really see the issue with size anyway. I mean, it's totally meaningless besides the amount of jump related to height. Otherwise, size is meaningless.
07-24-2011, 06:50 PM
Rudy

Quote:

Originally Posted by morsdraconis

Meh, I don't really see the issue with size anyway. I mean, it's totally meaningless besides the amount of jump related to height. Otherwise, size is meaningless.

That's the point. Size is meaningless in this game but it is certainly not meaningless in the sport of football. I understand that having a 198 pound DE whose a run stopper will play exactly the same as if he's 298 pounds in NCAA 12 (which is stupid) but is it that hard to generate a more appropriate weight so that it appears like it actually matters?
07-24-2011, 06:57 PM
morsdraconis

Well, certainly not, but, really, I just don't see the point in making it a priority at all unless they actually make it count for something. I mean, if the player's size actually changed their gait or actually changed the way they changed directions or something, then, sure, absolutely! But, since it doesn't, I'd really like to see something a bit higher on the list addressed first.
07-24-2011, 07:09 PM
PeteyKirch

I was simming along in my one dynasty, and at the end of the season, a 5* OL recruit was added to the database, 5'11/228lbs

Really EA?
07-25-2011, 11:11 AM
jaymo76

Quote:

Originally Posted by gschwendt

It has already been passed on to EA... essentially with the idea of ensuring that if a recruit is generated with a tendency, then he has minimums & maximums for weight, particularly along the DL.

I've passed that along as well seeing as that was a large part of the request for editing capability. Not certain if it can be changed in a patch or not but they are at least aware.

Sounds good! You would think it could be patched as EA/Tiburon patched in the ability to edit ratings. The other big thing I would LOVE to see them open up... give the user the ability to ADJUST CPU DEPTH CHART ISSUES.
07-25-2011, 12:10 PM
Rudy

Don't hold your breath Jaymo on recruit weights being fixed in a patch. This specific issue was something EA has been aware for more than one dev cycle. This is not a bug or glitch. EA could have chosen to fix this on the retail copy but they didn't so that leads me to believe they won't bother fixing it in a patch when timelines are tight.
07-25-2011, 12:16 PM
gschwendt

Yeah, I would doubt this would be addressed in a patch. It's always possible but in order to do it right, I think they'd have to wait and do it as part of NCAA13.
07-25-2011, 01:28 PM
AustinWolv

Quote:

Originally Posted by gschwendt

Yeah, I would doubt this would be addressed in a patch. It's always possible but in order to do it right, I think they'd have to wait and do it as part of NCAA13.

Crossing fingers that it will happen.
07-26-2011, 07:18 AM
Whammer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy

Don't hold your breath Jaymo on recruit weights being fixed in a patch. This specific issue was something EA has been aware for more than one dev cycle. This is not a bug or glitch. EA could have chosen to fix this on the retail copy but they didn't so that leads me to believe they won't bother fixing it in a patch when timelines are tight.

While it might appear to be minor to some people THIS is the stuff that really bugs me about EA (Tiburon specifically). This is not a new issue, it's been like this for years. Why doesn't this get fixed? Who knows?
Does anyone know just what kind of a budget NCAA has to work with each year? I think most of us assume they have a fairly healthy budget to work with, but maybe that's not the case?

Maybe Ben and his team really don't get much money to work on the game, maybe they con us a little with all the work they do. Essentially it's the same game each year. A few things get tweaked and a few things get added ( and then removed the following year, and then added again- rinse and repeat). So how much actual work needs to be done each year? Considering all the flaws that remain in the game year in and year out, I really question how much money EA puts into this game.
07-26-2011, 06:51 PM
hitman625

This really bugs me as well just on the immesion purposes of the game...granted it doesnt affect the game play it still just sucks knowing there's a DL who weighs less than my K. I do remember back in the PS2 days, created players had limits on which their stats would be based on their weight/height. If it could be done on PS2, why o why can't it be tweaked?
07-27-2011, 12:35 PM
Pantera1968

I guess each of us has his own pet peeves but this is absolutely one of my biggest. I recruited a 6' 3", 252 pound 4 star athlete figuring that he would be a DE or LB. I'm at a crappy school so shame on me I didn't spend as much time looking at his ratings as I should. I just figured the he is a 4 star I can use him somewhere. Come to find out he is a freaking WIDE RECEIVER! Are you kidding me?

Again, I understand those saying "it doesn't impact gameplay" but it just seems like something that should be pretty easy to correct that is just ignored each year.
08-07-2011, 12:00 PM
JeffHCross

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy

I saw a DE on the recruit list who is 6'5" and 198 pounds and he's listed as a run stopper. Please EA! How on earth can a guy that skinny be listed as a run stopper!

Rudy, out of curiosity, was this player actually a quality player? Or was he low rated? I'm thinking 1-star, 2-star. "Run Stopper" isn't a designation that you get by virtue of having certain ratings that are high enough -- it's just a question of the balance between your ratings. If there is a molasses-slow WR, you're going to see him listed as Possession 99% of the time. Doesn't matter if he can actually catch as well as Wes Welker, just that his catching ratings are "better" than his speed ratings.

I agree with the intent of your post -- position tendencies should generally reflect height/weight reality. It's unlikely that a 198 lb DE is going to have run stopping abilities -- but it is possible, however unlikely, that his pass rushing abilities just sucked so badly that he was considered a run stopper.

Not that I ever would have been recruited, but when I played DL in high school, I was definitely a "run stopper" by default ... my pass rushing abilities were nil. And I was one of the lightest linemen on the team.
08-07-2011, 07:14 PM
Rudy

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffHCross

Rudy, out of curiosity, was this player actually a quality player? Or was he low rated? I'm thinking 1-star, 2-star.

I'm pretty sure he was a 4* player. Maybe 3* but no lower than that. He's not on my recruiting board but I can check later. I can guarantee it wasn't a 1 or 2* player since I never look at those guys. It's 3* or bust for me at Michigan!

Honestly this is something that you could see as a 5* or 1* player because the weight generated by the player is 100% random. EA does not tie the recruit's weight into their ratings at all. I'm pretty sure when I tested that database out in NCAA 11 that it was completely independent of overall rating as well. Can't say that's true for NCAA 12 but I don't see a reason to believe it's been changed at all.
08-07-2011, 07:46 PM
JeffHCross

I agree, I was just curious.
04-15-2012, 01:24 AM
Little Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by morsdraconis

Meh, I don't really see the issue with size anyway. I mean, it's totally meaningless besides the amount of jump related to height. Otherwise, size is meaningless.

cincinnat bearcats have a 5'11 237 D E and after watching him on tv he IS a run stoper. but then again they were one of the best run defences in the the country. respect the cats! go to hell U of L. Bye, bye wvu, and Death to OhioState!

i have lots of school pride....
05-07-2012, 06:57 PM
WipeOut464

Quote:

Originally Posted by gschwendt

Yeah, I would doubt this would be addressed in a patch. It's always possible but in order to do it right, I think they'd have to wait and do it as part of NCAA13.

Gschwendt, any chance they addressed weight "classes" tied to tendencies? I'm guessing not since it wasn't announced so far, but I'm keeping a candle lit til you say otherwise.
05-10-2012, 03:49 AM
Rudy

1 Attachment(s)

Recruit's weights have not been improved this year but they are hoping for next year. http://traditionsportsonline.com/nca...iting-database

http://traditionsportsonline.com/wp-...cruitbreak.jpg

I still believe the minimums are not as big a problem is that the weight is completely random. It needs to be tied into ratings more. Fast guys should be lighter than strong guys generally speaking. Of course there are physical freaks but just boosting the minimum ranges and not tying into ratings would be a mistake imo.
05-19-2012, 04:10 PM
JeffHCross

Rudy, if you haven't listened to the latest NCAA Football Podcast, check it out. They talk about the recruit's weight and the work you linked above by the guys at TSO, and there's definitely the implication that it was changed for this year.
05-19-2012, 08:39 PM
Rudy

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffHCross

Rudy, if you haven't listened to the latest NCAA Football Podcast, check it out. They talk about the recruit's weight and the work you linked above by the guys at TSO, and there's definitely the implication that it was changed for this year.

Cool. I will check it out now.

Edit: Checked it out and they talked about how Tradition Sports had them fix their weight ranges but I would still like to see more correlation with weight and skills (instead of 0 like they have it now). I know there are freaks out there that are big AND fast but they are the exception. There needs to be a correlation and it doesn't have to be 100% but it needs to be more than 0.