Passing Game in NCAA '11

What's the greatest thing missing in '11 for the passing game to be truly like real life?

It looks like bubble screen are in, which is making the spread offense people jizz their pants and there are rumors and hints to uncovered receiver hotroutes being in the game as well.

What else are they missing?

Personally, I think the biggest obstacle has more to do with the defense than anything. The ability of linebackers to leap 3 or 4 feet into the air to intercept the ball that should be over top of their heads is by far one of the most frustrating things.

This conundrum again. I don't have a problem with their routes or combinations, they've done a really good job with researching that. It's just that passing is just way too easy, but it's extremely difficult to make passing dificult when you have an omniscient view of the field. The problem is supplemented by the deterioration of the defensive AI and lack of legitimate pass rush. EA has tried to bandage these things in the past (In Madden 11 had a good response to the defensive AI issue by allowing defenders to jump routes when the receiver is stationary, but that could have been more to combat rocket catching) by having you make errant throws and allowing single defenders blow by blockers at certain instances to create a quasi-pass rush, but all this did was balance the stat sheet slightly.
Hopefully locomotion fixes man coverage (And the BS running around with the QB) so that users can start bringing heat that way, and possibly (Not happening, we'd have been bombared with blogs about it if they had done this) in the future they can analyze the dynamics of pocket protection, what constitutes pressure, and how QB's have to interact in the pocket. Game speed could also be an issue, because users always have had an abundance of time to react to rushing defenders. In the end though, I believe the only possible way to make passing realisticly difficult is to adopt the Backbreaker camera, but not too many people (including me, honestly) want to play with that camera. Just need to ramp up the defensive pass rush (realistically) and totally redo the coverage AI.

I'm not a very good offensive player so this ease of passing is not something I'm overly aware of.

I personally think the biggest problem with the passing game is the vertical spacing. EA does a pretty good job of getting the horizontal spacing right although they need to give the user the option to shade WRs inside or outside to take away certain things (like a quick slant). The vertical spacing is poor. LBs jump too high and the space in between zones is too hard to place the ball as the closer defender usually swats the ball too easily. They did say they tweaked the trajectory so if they made the ball a bit higher it might make it easier to drop it into tight spaces. Making QBs a little less accurate would help reduce the extra completions.

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Originally Posted by Rudy

I'm not a very good offensive player so this ease of passing is not something I'm overly aware of.

I personally think the biggest problem with the passing game is the vertical spacing. EA does a pretty good job of getting the horizontal spacing right although they need to give the user the option to shade WRs inside or outside to take away certain things (like a quick slant). The vertical spacing is poor. LBs jump too high and the space in between zones is too hard to place the ball as the closer defender usually swats the ball too easily. They did say they tweaked the trajectory so if they made the ball a bit higher it might make it easier to drop it into tight spaces. Making QBs a little less accurate would help reduce the extra completions.

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I believe they said that, but i don't believe they really did anything to affect vertical spacing. In one of their "highliting locomotion" videos, a defender 5 yards in front of the receiver bats a ball that was meant to be an over-the-shoulder grab, much like it has been in the past.

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Originally Posted by morsdraconis

What's the greatest thing missing in '11 for the passing game to be truly like real life?

It looks like bubble screen are in, which is making the spread offense people jizz their pants and there are rumors and hints to uncovered receiver hotroutes being in the game as well.

What else are they missing?

Personally, I think the biggest obstacle has more to do with the defense than anything. The ability of linebackers to leap 3 or 4 feet into the air to intercept the ball that should be over top of their heads is by far one of the most frustrating things.

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Possibly the most frustrating feature of EA Football titles... I just lost the conf final tonight in Madden due to two pics from Leaping LB's.

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Originally Posted by MGoBlue

I believe they said that, but i don't believe they really did anything to affect vertical spacing. In one of their "highliting locomotion" videos, a defender 5 yards in front of the receiver bats a ball that was meant to be an over-the-shoulder grab, much like it has been in the past.

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I saw one of those in an interview with Russ. I'm not holding my breath on it being significantly better in this area.

I agree with many of the posts above. An additional "problem" is that QBs are simply far too accurate. When you press X 99/100 the ball goes right to X on the numbers. This only allows for 4 options: (1) completion; (2) dropped pass; (3) batted pass by DB; (4) Interception. In real life, balls are thrown too short, high, left right, etc.....

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Originally Posted by CLW

This only allows for 4 options: (1) completion; (2) dropped pass; (3) batted pass by DB; (4) Interception. In real life, balls are thrown too short, high, left right, etc.....

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Ive thought this to be a problem for years...in both games (NCAA and Madden).

It always seems like the ball finds SOMEONE, receiver or defender. Realistically that doesn't happen. Now in my 2 games so far with the demo, my passes have been all over the place especially overthrown. I don't think I've seen the CPU throw one...maybe one but thats about it

Just played a couple games, and the CPU QB missed some throws in each game/the receiver dropped them.

My biggest problem with this entire generation of titles is that I've still yet to see DB AI that is anything close to NCAA 2004. Now, a lot of people say it was too easy to pass on that game, and it was. But that was the last EA title where the DBs were actually in the right position. If you threw a deep lob, you could expect that the DB would run under it and pick it off. That doesn't happen nearly enough now. Too frequently are the DBs out of position.

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Originally Posted by AustinWolv

Just played a couple games, and the CPU QB missed some throws in each game/the receiver dropped them.

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I've actually seen quite a few overthrown and off target balls. The QB is more likely to throw a poor pass if there is pressure on him (just like real life).

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

My biggest problem with this entire generation of titles is that I've still yet to see DB AI that is anything close to NCAA 2004. Now, a lot of people say it was too easy to pass on that game, and it was. But that was the last EA title where the DBs were actually in the right position. If you threw a deep lob, you could expect that the DB would run under it and pick it off. That doesn't happen nearly enough now. Too frequently are the DBs out of position.

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Well, I think Locomotion for '11 is playing a big part in that. CBs don't need retarded speed to be great. Acceleration, agility (be able to back pedal and snap their hips around as well as turn around and make a play on the ball while running down the field), awareness, and coverage abilities are going to play that much more of a role in pass defense with '11.

I definitely still think it's possibly an issue, but I also think that acceleration and top speed are playing a huge role in these deep passes that people keep saying they are completing so easily.

I think I'm going to do some testing with Cover 2 Man Under with zones set to aggressive to see if the deep safeties take away the long ball completely. Realistically, they safeties playing deep like that should be able to take that away and hopefully help on the seam routes as well. The middle of the field is still going to be wide open though. Not much you can do about that really unless they give us the ability to assign individual shading per player or something (don't see that ever happening).

I think if you play Cover 2 with Zones as aggressive you'll be smoked, badly, by deep balls.

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

I think if you play Cover 2 with Zones as aggressive you'll be smoked, badly, by deep balls.

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Not normal Cover 2. Cover 2 Man Under (Safeties split the deep middle and the rest is man coverage). I'm mainly interested in how the safeties react to streak plays compared to normal or conservative settings.

In reality, all of the passes thrown in this game should be dead on, because the QB isn't getting pressure from the upfront men, that fundamental flaw still exists, and makes the passing game easy (With the exception of EA's "wild throw" balls put in to balance the stat sheet).

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

I think if you play Cover 2 with Zones as aggressive you'll be smoked, badly, by deep balls.

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Man I'm having a time getting use to this vbulletin, but I honestly think that its all a matter of when you call it, of course if you stay in a smart player will adjust to it but everything on this game or any game for that matter is about timing. Knowing when to call it or when not to call it.

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Originally Posted by morsdraconis

Not normal Cover 2. Cover 2 Man Under

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I call so much Man Under, that is Cover 2 to me. And either way, whether it's Man Under or base Cover 2 shell, it's still Cover 2. It still has the same inherent problems with deep balls between the two of them. The Man Under might give you a little better coverage because of the matchups, but the safety help isn't going to be there either way.

oweb, if you go back to my post, he was talking about labbing Cover 2. We weren't talking about strategically calling it. Of course, everything's about timing with defensive calls. You can get away with the worst defensive call in the world if you manage to call it at the right time.

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Originally Posted by MGoBlue

In reality, all of the passes thrown in this game should be dead on, because the QB isn't getting pressure from the upfront men, that fundamental flaw still exists, and makes the passing game easy.

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Agreed, though I'd really like to see more "noise" put into the throws. They've made some progress with that this year, because I can feel a difference between throwing the ball with Terrelle Pryor and the other QBs. Terrelle doesn't feel nearly as accurate, which is exactly what it should feel like, based on his ratings (and real life). I'm hoping that feeling isn't just me reaching for straws and actually carries over to the real game. It'd be nice for there to be an obvious difference in strength and accuracy between QBs.

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Originally Posted by morsdraconis

I've actually seen quite a few overthrown and off target balls. The QB is more likely to throw a poor pass if there is pressure on him (just like real life).



Well, I think Locomotion for '11 is playing a big part in that. CBs don't need retarded speed to be great. Acceleration, agility (be able to back pedal and snap their hips around as well as turn around and make a play on the ball while running down the field), awareness, and coverage abilities are going to play that much more of a role in pass defense with '11.

I definitely still think it's possibly an issue, but I also think that acceleration and top speed are playing a huge role in these deep passes that people keep saying they are completing so easily.

I think I'm going to do some testing with Cover 2 Man Under with zones set to aggressive to see if the deep safeties take away the long ball completely. Realistically, they safeties playing deep like that should be able to take that away and hopefully help on the seam routes as well. The middle of the field is still going to be wide open though. Not much you can do about that really unless they give us the ability to assign individual shading per player or something (don't see that ever happening).

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Good post

In the demo my Cover 2 with press... I'm getting lit up with the deep ball by the cpu. Looks like it's time for a new strategy this year.

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Originally Posted by jaymo76

In the demo my Cover 2 with press... I'm getting lit up with the deep ball by the cpu. Looks like it's time for a new strategy this year.

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Well, hopefully the upgrades to zone coverage will make zone coverage actually be worth a damn at all but it's got me worried if they aren't programming it correctly...

One thing I haven't adjusted to yet is the way the game leads the WRs now. In NCAA 09 you had to always lead your receivers - on out routes to avoid pick 6's and certainly on deep balls otherwise they got batted down. I find myself leading WRs in the demo on deep balls and I constantly overthrow them. The changes they made to this area in NCAA 10 (which I didn't play much) and now in NCAA 11 are something I have to adjust to. It's certainly better but I have to break old habits.

I must really suck because passing has NEVER been easy for me. Running the ball has always been my saving grace.

I don't think you will ever see enough near misses on passes with WRs stretching out for balls and glancing off finger tips until the warping is truly gone. The ball is either dropped in the game, way off target, or an animation kicks in to show the catch and that sometimes requires the receiver to warp to the ball. I don't see warping all the time but it should never exist. Instead of that WR warping to the ball, show them dive for a ball and either catch the ball or have the ball go off their fingertips. There are many instances in real life where a WR catches a ball but has to go to the ground to do so and gets zero YAC. I'd like to see that more often.

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Originally Posted by Rudy

I don't think you will ever see enough near misses on passes with WRs stretching out for balls and glancing off finger tips until the warping is truly gone. The ball is either dropped in the game, way off target, or an animation kicks in to show the catch and that sometimes requires the receiver to warp to the ball. I don't see warping all the time but it should never exist. Instead of that WR warping to the ball, show them dive for a ball and either catch the ball or have the ball go off their fingertips. There are many instances in real life where a WR catches a ball but has to go to the ground to do so and gets zero YAC. I'd like to see that more often.

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I definitely never saw that in '11's demo. I think the warping to the ball has been fixed. Instead of the receiver warping to catch the ball, they'd reach out trying to get to it and stumble as the ball was overthrown.

You haven't seen the warping in the demo? I've seen it a few times. Can't remember the difficulty level but I have seen it.

Definitely more of a range of missed throws this year. Have seen several 'short' passes that weren't tipped or anything. Just in the dirt. Seen other passes be just out of reach or overthrown. It's definitely getting better in this area.

The major issue I see in the realism facet of the passing game is the defense doesn't 'move' the way the offense now does. DB's don't swivel correctly when a wr is about to run by, or plant and break on the ball the way they should. LB's don't slide or cross step to make up ground when there's no-one in their zone, and S's don't defend the deep zones early enough. Little things like movement would take the passing game to the next level imo. It would make it realistic to find wr's based on how the defender, which the user is reading, reacts in his movement. Did he jump the route, or bite on a route fake? Did he turn his hips or will your wr have a legit step? Also this stuff will make a difference in reading the field, because you'll have to zero in on certain movements of defenders and not just react to 'areas' on the field based on a feel of improper defensive spacing. That would 'act' as a vision cone I think more than anything.

So next year I'd like to see locomotion and mo-caps focused more on defensive movement than offensive movement. Now that wr's don't 'skip and warp', it will be much mo' betta this year. :)