I hate to break up the party, but I must defend the president. Last night was clearly a severe case of altitude sickness as this video clearly demonstrates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=819q6...yer_embedded#!
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I hate to break up the party, but I must defend the president. Last night was clearly a severe case of altitude sickness as this video clearly demonstrates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=819q6...yer_embedded#!
You are going to laugh but there is one liberal able to take something from the debate and embarrassingly try to make it racist, the goes on to actually making a racist statement himself. It is like liberals can't comprehend irony.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2012/10/hbc-90008926
Yet there he was, giving a presentation devoid of substance, vision, principle, or even basic coherence. He didn’t show a spark of anger, even when Romney slyly found a way to call him a boy, comparing Obama’s statements to the sorts of childish lies his “five boys” used to tell.
How the right’s hard-core racists must have howled at that! Mitt, at long last, has secured his base.
A Teleprompter, a teleprompter, My kingdom for a teleprompter!Quote:
Originally Posted by SCClassof93
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by bdoughty
Because the debates really swing the voting... :D
Actually they do even according to liberal "experts" (average 2.4% bounce)Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHuskers
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ll-blog480.jpg
Ohio man tells Obama that his business has been "Terrible since you got here" :nod:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...re_653769.html
New Hampshire Resident: "Obama couldn't run a lemonade stand" :nod:
http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2012...emonade-stand/
Thin Air + Romney having handkerchief = RACIST!!!! :nod:
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enha...49454186-8.gif
http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/...chief-campaign
On the flip side the 7.8% unemployment rate is going to really help Obama. Most were speculating 8.1 to 8.2.
This ends my journey into political discussion at TGT. Nobody is going to change their mind based on anything here. Politics and religion are far to personal to be discussed on message boards with a bunch of people you have never met in real life.
That's one thing I can agree on. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bdoughty
I'm pretty sure we all have our minds made up on who we're voting for, we're not going to sway anyone, all that's going to happen is the potential for a fireball to light up if one person says something that incites others and before you know, warnings and bans are getting launched. These threads just end up being nothing more than the same regurgitated rhectoric that we see on TV ads and news reports from rallies every single day.
And agreed about politics and religion. It's that very reason I was so happy to see political and religion threads not popping up in the past, and a bit disappointed to see these threads pop up a couple months ago. There's pretty much not ever a point in talking politics and religion, especially online. Everyone has their own beliefs, and unless you are one undecisive motherfucker, you're set in your beliefs, so what's the point? No one's mind is going to be changed or swayed. All that's gonna happen is something will eventually, inevitably be said, someone will get pissed off, and shit will go down.
I've broken my own rule of never discuss politics or religion, whether it's with strangers, family, my girlfriend, my girlfriend's family, no one, on here a number of times, but like you, I'm going to be ending my entry into political discussion on here. If others want to keep posting the rhetoric and pointlessly debating on here, more power to them, but I'm going to go back to what I used to do, just ignore these threads and when I'm done reading the other threads in the forum, make the OT forum as read and go about my business.
I have seen plenty of forums able to discuss politics and religion in a serious manner. While there are always bad seeds that ruin any truly serious/personal discussion, it is possible. But I will agree that it hasn't turned out very well here ... (though, as I said on the first page, this is a "propaganda" thread, not intended for actual serious discussion :D)Quote:
Originally Posted by bdoughty
According to things I've seen, only twice, including 1960, has the leader going into the debates not been the eventual victor. One of those was, of course, 1960. The other was Carter/Reagan, if memory serves. Bush/Gore changed, but was within the margin for error so I guess it didn't count :dunno: A 2.4% change doesn't mean anything if the result doesn't change.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
Carter/Reagan is a perfect analogy. Economy sucks; Iran hostage crisis/Libya coverup; etc....Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
Look who is in the lead now:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...-colorado-nat/
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...4og9oJa7uBFwzK
Mmmmh Mmmh Mmmh BHO! :nod:
BasicallyQuote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
Besides has anyone ever been happy from beginning to end of a President's end term?
Can't be certain but even Republicans were likely ready for Bush to leave...well maybe not the wealthy.
Damn you guys, just keep reeling me in. :D But no, I don't believe anyone has. There will always been something. Just like with Romney attacking Obama and the Democrats for the jobless numbers, which dropped to 7.8% or whatever, still saying it's not what economic recovery looks like. What is he going to say if the numbers shoot up to 9% or 10% while he's in office? Give him another four years to try and fix the issue, while there will probably be people in his own party who want him out?Quote:
Originally Posted by skipwondah33
My issue with politics in this country, my viewpoint, is simple. This country is fucked regardless. The issues this country is facing takes more than 4 years to fix, it takes more than 8 years to fix, especially long-term. But people in this country want IMMEDIATE results, that just will not happen, regardless of who is in office, so we sit here jumping back and forth, back and forth, random people who keep changing directions or repealing or replacing decisions made by previous administrations because they have a better (though usually not better in the end) plans that just lead us endlessly around in circles.
And while there is plenty the president can do, ultimately, it's Congress that's fucking us. Congress refuses to work together. It could be something will benefit every single American in some way, shape or form, but if it means Democrats working with Republicans and Republicans working with Democrats, it will never happen because heaven forbid the two sides work together to better life in America if it means the other side gaining some political points from it. But our problem? We keep voting the same fucking idiots back into office. And this is for both sides. Democrats keep voting some of the same people who refuse to work with the other side into Congress, and Republicans do as well. Nothing in this country is going to get better until both sides of the aisle work together, until Congress and the White House work together, regardless of what party is in control, regardless of who is in the White House.
That is something I'm sure we can all agree on. And that is the reason why I am starting to not even give a shit anymore when it comes to politics. It's all the same deceptive, round and round bullshit year after year. A politician is going to lie to get elected, it's inevitable. Obama has and will tell lies. Romney has and will tell lies. There's this kid Mandel, a republican here in Ohio running for Senate. He ran for state Treasurer office back in 2010, promising that he would work and serve the full four years of the term, and yet only a year into the term, he had already broken that promise by immediately turning around and running for senate. There's a three-seat commission that he chairs here in the state, he skipped 14 straight meetings, never going to one until he finally attended his first meeting earlier this year, only after it had been picked up by and reported on statewide by newspapers. Why should I trust him with my vote and trust him to do the best for Ohio and myself when he couldn't even keep a simple campaign promise to serve the full four year term as state Treasurer? I voted for him as Treasurer two years ago, because I thought maybe he really would be the new blood that we need in state office here in Ohio, but since then he has turned out to be nothing more than the same old tired shit of politicians simply looking out for themselves. He promises if he's elected to the Senate, that he will ONLY run for max of two terms, be in office for 12 years. Why should I also believe that?
Every politician lies, every politician cheats, every politician tells you what you want to hear, but then doesn't do it. I'm getting tired of it, from both Democrats and Republicans, and much longer of this same old tired bullshit, and I'm just not going to care anymore when it comes to politics and elections. Leo McGarry said it best in the show The West Wing,
Bartlet: "Why are you doing this? You're a player. You're bigger in the party than I am. Hoynes would probably make you National Chairman. Leo, tell me this isn't one of the twelve steps."
Leo: "That's what it is. Right after admitting that we are powerless over alcohol and a higher power can restore us to sanity. That's where you come in."
Bartlet: "Leo..."
Leo: "Because I'm tired of it! Year, after year, after year of having to choose between the lesser of who cares? Of trying to get myself excited over a candidate who can speak in complete sentences. Of setting the bar so low, I can hardly look at it. They say a good man can't get elected president. I don't believe that, do you?"
That's the point I am just about at. I'm tired of it. I was excited when I turned 18 and could actually start voting and taking part in elections and whatnot. Boy how naive I was. It's turns out all this is nothing but shit, choosing between the lesser of two evils instead of choosing the better of two good candidates, lowering my bar from election to election to decide who I can stomach voting for more over the other. I'm not voting for the best candidate or the person who is going to do the best job running the country. No, I'm voting for who isn't going to fuck up the country worse than the other guy. And this is at all levels. City, county, state, federal. I don't vote party lines, I vote by person. I routinely vote for both republicans and democrats in the same election, especially on the local city and county levels.
This election, yes, I voted Obama back in 2008. This election, I would probably vote Obama by default, just because I trust Romney less. But I don't particularly care for either candidate. Obama has had some fuck ups while in office and he has not done enough of what he said he would in 2008. Yet Romney promises the world but refuses to give details. He wants to have across the board tax cuts while increasing military spending, that the numbers I saw, was something like $5 trillion in costs. I'd love to hear where the fuck he plans to get $5 trillion to pay for those cuts and the military spending and not have any increase in the deficit. Cutting PBS and Big Bird is a piss drop in the bucket to paying for that, so what else is getting chopped? He wants my votes, I want specific details. He wants me to vote him for president and support him, I damn well deserve specific as fuck details about what he is going to do to pay for some of this of stuff. Ryan was questioned about, I want to believe it was the tax plans, he said it would take too long to explain the math behind it. When you're talking about something major like that, I don't give a fuck how long it's going to take, start talking about the fucking math. They want me to trust them and vote for them, but all it is so far are smoke and mirrors and claims of doing this and that if they are elected and yet has been repeatedly said aren't mathematically possible.
Give me specifics for how you are going to do this and that. Give me the details, TAKE THE TIME to explain all of it. Then maybe I'll consider voting for you. Instead, I have to lower my bar and pick between the lesser of two evils. I've only been voting for 8 years, and I'm already fucking tired of the bullshit. I'm quickly approaching the point of not giving a fuck anymore. It makes me sad to say that, but it's true. This election is no different, the midterms will be no different, 2016 will be no different.
I couldn't help but notice the applicability of your quote to other professions. So, fixed. :D It truly is endemic in America, and how we choose our leadership regardless of profession, that we believe quick fixes are possible and do not realize the underlying causes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
If either candidate announced tomorrow that they were going to name Michelle Rhee as Secretary of Education, I'd vote for them. Why? Because while her time in DC may have been filled with controversy, she's the only public figure I've personally heard with an explanation for what is wrong with our current education system. Plenty have said there are problems, but few have offered specifics or solutions. And Michelle Rhee is just an example. I want solutions, not clairvoyant claims about how their plan will magically create X number of jobs.
If either candidate announced tomorrow that _____ was their plan to work with Congress, and it didn't include the words "reach across the aisle", "bipartisan", "united", or any other buzzword related to working with the other party, I'd vote for them. Because the simple fact is that it doesn't matter who's in the Oval Office. The only way a Democrat is going to get things done is with a Democratic Congress. The only way a Republican is going to get things done is with a Republican Congress. Because the other party is more concerned with sandbagging the opposition than it is with running the damn country (though I will admit that Republicans in Congress are MUCH better at this goal than Democrats are ... Democrats can't even unite with themselves well).
Because he's clearly ambitious enough that within 12 years he'll be running for some other job.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
Princeton Economist that Obama LOVES to say shows Romney is lying says Obama is the one that is lying about his study:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...an_653917.htmlQuote:
I can’t tell exactly how the Obama campaign reached that characterization of my work. It might be that they assume that Governor Romney wants to keep the taxes from the Affordable Care Act in place, despite the fact that the Governor has called for its complete repeal. The main conclusion of my study is that under plausible assumptions, a proposal along the lines suggested by Governor Romney can both be revenue neutral and keep the net tax burden on taxpayers with incomes above $200,000 about the same. That is, an increase in the tax burden on lower and middle income individuals is not required in order to make the overall plan revenue neutral.
The wheels are falling off the wagon folks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHuskers
You guys were sayin'?Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
http://www.people-press.org/2012/10/...s-obamas-lead/
Just sayin' :nod:
I realize I'm saying this in the wrong 'propaganda' thread, but plenty of wheels have fallen off Romney's too. BOTH sides are lying through their teeth.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
One debate down. Two to go. Note I said "going into" and "eventual victor", not "temporary bump from great performance". And I do have to say that Romney's expected performance vs actual performance (as well as Obama's, in the opposite direction) was so stunning that I wouldn't be surprised if this was the exception to the rule. But the odds were against him, and you know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
I'm just going to quote what I said to someone making, basically, the same argument you're making a while back:Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
Nothing will ever change and it hasn't at all since I've been following the whole corrupt bullshit. There's no such thing as news anymore. It's ALWAYS slanted to one side or the other and too often, people that talk about this shit, only use things that they agree with and aren't willing to look at both sides of the argument. It's the same shit with Congress (as you pointed out). Nobody wants to work with anyone. Thus, it all boils down to doing whatever makes them the most money. Follow the money trail, and you'll see why things have been done the way they're been done for the past 20 years.Quote:
Because, like everything else, America has made the US Government a business and, therefore, like all other businesses, they have to fuck everyone else before they get fucked to make as much money as possible.
That, and the internet has changed the elections as well. It used to be, the only way to advertise for your campaign was through visual media (billboards, yard signs, bumper stickers, television ads, etc) but with the invention of social media, it's become easier than ever to put out as much bullshit as possible to as many people as possible. Thus, we get overloaded with everything (the sane side, the insane side, and all the inbetweens) to the point where we just want to say fuck it and not do anything.
Welcome to American politics in the 21st century. Get used to it, because it's not gonna change because there are billions of dollars being spent by the movers and shakers behind the scenes to make sure it doesn't. As long as the general masses vote based on some idiotic party loyalty concept, things will never change.
Nothing will ever change. Welcome to the United States of Fucked.
Mors, whoever you quoted does not have a clue. Government looks nothing like a "business" and that is the problem. Whoever said that has most likely never run a business and most likely works in academia with "tenure" or is a government union member. Sad thing is, it is "business" that makes both those "jobs" possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by morsdraconis
What has changed in my lifetime is the view of "business". There have always been whiners and bitter folks that are envious of those that work hard and succeed, but now it seems that view has taken hold with the majority. Seems it is easier to take by the police power of government than it is to work; but then to bitch about the folks they steal and rob from as being thieves and dishonest is sad.
:smh:
And there ya go.
:smh:
For those that claim "nothing changes" in regards to debates....or anything else.
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast....tion-away.html
Our HEROES support Romney over their Commander In Chief 2/1. :nod:
http://militarytimes.com/news/2012/1...ma-2-1-100712/
n/m
great input there. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
Thought I was right, turned out I was wrong. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by baseballplyrmvp
Kid Rock & Paul Ryan? Rocker Isn't Worried About Upsetting Fans
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...#slide=1476679
He quieted the crowd a bit when he shared his pride over the election of Barack Obama as the first black president. But he quickly added he was sorry Obama "didn't do a better job."
Obama campaign helps people commit a felony by voting twice.
http://youtu.be/q_iJfnbMzI0
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49354805...1#.UHbUbcXA-3o
Well atleast he agreed to stop using the story and his name.
http://timethemoment.files.wordpress...3731.jpg?w=326
Whatcha gonna do when Paul Ryan runs wild on you Joe!?
The Terrorist Attack and death of 4 Americans is only an issue because of Romney Ryan. :smh:
http://freebeacon.com/cutter-benghaz...mney-and-ryan/
CNN poll Ryan 48% Biden 44%. I guess you cannot just laugh, smirk and scream your way into a debate win. R 2 D 0!
Of 381 people, sure. And maybe not, but apparently you can pull false numbers and "facts" that you made up off the top of your head and pulled out of your ass into a debate win. Romney/Ryan sure as fuck have this lying and pulling numbers out of your ass game down to a science.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
well, since the obama government tries to take credit for all of America's hard work, i'm sure that they'd try to claim credit for teaching romney and ryan the science of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
So when things work out it's "Obama taking credit for America's hard work" but when the numbers go down it's "Obama is a fascist, socialist, and needs to be replaced". :fp:Quote:
Originally Posted by baseballplyrmvp
You silly conservatives. You and Romney are a match made in heaven. You both lie like dogs.