IGN LiveStream of NCAA Football 12 - Video & Recap

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Originally Posted by psuexv

Then what was the gameplanning button on the left for?

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Do you mean the "Choose Style" (B)?

If so, that's for playcalling style such as "By Formation" (normal), "Ask Coach", "Recent Plays", etc.

If not, point me in the direction of what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by psuexv

Then what was the gameplanning button on the left for?

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On the left of?

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Originally Posted by gschwendt

Do you mean the "Choose Style" (B)?

If so, that's for playcalling style such as "By Formation" (normal), "Ask Coach", "Recent Plays", etc.

If not, point me in the direction of what you're talking about.

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Ok yeah it's choose style... I couldn't remember exactly what it was. Just found it again in the vid.

another livestream tonight I presume.


http://www.gamespot.com/shows/on-the-spot/

saw it on FB.

I'll admit, when Madden and NCAA played the same on the PS2, I thought those were glory days we wouldn't see for awhile. I feel like both games have taken their own identity, especially with how they play, and it looks great. Definitely looking forward to th demo when it comes out, just to get a feel of how it plays. It looks like it plays like NCAA 11, but 09 and 10 did as well, and we saw how that turned out.

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Originally Posted by psusnoop

I'll add in on the sacks comments as well because in the FSU vs FLA game there were only 14 plays and of those 14, I think it was 9 of them were pass plays. Just not enough to gauge whether there is or isn't an effective pass rush in my opinion.

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You guys are focusing on the wrong statistic. Most defensive coordinators don't just care about sacks, they care about QB pressures and hurries. In watching the videos, there are basically 3 possible outcomes on passing plays. 1) Somebody beats their man immediately and gets virtually instant pressure, 2) The defense blitzes and somebody comes in untouched and gets immediate pressure, or 3) Nobody beats their man immediately and the QB has virtually all day to pass.

The issue is not the lack of sacks. That has NEVER been the issue. The issue is that it's completely all or nothing. On the non-sack plays, the QB has virtually all day to pass and is rarely even forced to reset in the pocket or evade pressure. He has nobody in his face and is not forced to make a quick decision (unless the defense blitzes, in which case there is a hole in the coverage that can be exploited easily so long as the blitz is properly identified).

The issue is that the front 4 on this game rarely does anything to disrupt the passing game. Aside from a handful of times when they get instant pressure due to rare "win" animations playing out, most of the sacks that you see on this game are coverage sacks, or are generated via blitzes that result in an unblocked rusher. In real life dominant defensive lines affect the game on EVERY snap, not just the ones where they actually sack the QB. They do so by forcing the offense to execute the passing game under pressure and without a lot of time for deeper routes to develop. What's really missing here is the ability of the DL to force the QB to get rid of the ball before he wants to. That is what the issue is, and that's what the issue has always been.

Stop focusing on sack statistics as the only metric to judge the pass rush.

EDIT : disregard.

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Originally Posted by rhombic21

You guys are focusing on the wrong statistic. Most defensive coordinators don't just care about sacks, they care about QB pressures and hurries. In watching the videos, there are basically 3 possible outcomes on passing plays. 1) Somebody beats their man immediately and gets virtually instant pressure, 2) The defense blitzes and somebody comes in untouched and gets immediate pressure, or 3) Nobody beats their man immediately and the QB has virtually all day to pass.

The issue is not the lack of sacks. That has NEVER been the issue. The issue is that it's completely all or nothing. On the non-sack plays, the QB has virtually all day to pass and is rarely even forced to reset in the pocket or evade pressure. He has nobody in his face and is not forced to make a quick decision (unless the defense blitzes, in which case there is a hole in the coverage that can be exploited easily so long as the blitz is properly identified).

The issue is that the front 4 on this game rarely does anything to disrupt the passing game. Aside from a handful of times when they get instant pressure due to rare "win" animations playing out, most of the sacks that you see on this game are coverage sacks, or are generated via blitzes that result in an unblocked rusher. In real life dominant defensive lines affect the game on EVERY snap, not just the ones where they actually sack the QB. They do so by forcing the offense to execute the passing game under pressure and without a lot of time for deeper routes to develop. What's really missing here is the ability of the DL to force the QB to get rid of the ball before he wants to. That is what the issue is, and that's what the issue has always been.

Stop focusing on sack statistics as the only metric to judge the pass rush.

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Completely agree with you 100 % here, I rather hurry the QB and get hits at a good ratio, rather than the "hit or miss" tactic for sacks right now.

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Originally Posted by xMrHitStickx904

Completely agree with you 100 % here, I rather hurry the QB and get hits at a good ratio, rather than the "hit or miss" tactic for sacks right now.

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Yup this is definitely the issue. Not the sack count

I agree with Rhombic about the all or nothing pressure. That's why they need to reduce pancakes and knock downs and find a way to keep the players moving while blocking. A DT that gets a bull rush up the middle that just slowly pushes the guard back into the QB is good. Having the right ratio between a player quickly beating his opponent vs. a gradual win or lose is the important thing. It would also help the spread-option running game.

That said, I suck at passing. If I only got 3 seconds to throw the ball against the cpu I would never get anything going. I can usually get this area pretty good for me with sliders. I honestly haven't cared that much about the pass rush the last few years for offline play. 90%+ of the complaints come from the online community.

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Originally Posted by Jayrah

Not a whole lot of blitzing going on either. Also some pretty good O-line's involved. Would you like to see more bull rushes? LOL! Will have to wait it out on the pressure thing. However I will say that pressure is not a huge concern for me at default level, as long as I can tweak it in sliders to allow for better pressure, that will be fine.



One sack in 10 minutes of play is not good pressure. However to account for scrambling qb's and again, not much blitzing, it's not bad.

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Originally Posted by Deuce

I will watch them for sure...

Am I the only one that thought the rush was good? I feel like there was a good amount of pressure. Some plays had no pressure but others had a guy breaking thru as the pass was thrown. There is not necessarily pressure in real football on every play. I think I saw 1 sack in 2 qtrs played. ...not bad.

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Originally Posted by rhombic21

You guys are focusing on the wrong statistic. Most defensive coordinators don't just care about sacks, they care about QB pressures and hurries. In watching the videos, there are basically 3 possible outcomes on passing plays. 1) Somebody beats their man immediately and gets virtually instant pressure, 2) The defense blitzes and somebody comes in untouched and gets immediate pressure, or 3) Nobody beats their man immediately and the QB has virtually all day to pass.

The issue is not the lack of sacks. That has NEVER been the issue. The issue is that it's completely all or nothing. On the non-sack plays, the QB has virtually all day to pass and is rarely even forced to reset in the pocket or evade pressure. He has nobody in his face and is not forced to make a quick decision (unless the defense blitzes, in which case there is a hole in the coverage that can be exploited easily so long as the blitz is properly identified).

The issue is that the front 4 on this game rarely does anything to disrupt the passing game. Aside from a handful of times when they get instant pressure due to rare "win" animations playing out, most of the sacks that you see on this game are coverage sacks, or are generated via blitzes that result in an unblocked rusher. In real life dominant defensive lines affect the game on EVERY snap, not just the ones where they actually sack the QB. They do so by forcing the offense to execute the passing game under pressure and without a lot of time for deeper routes to develop. What's really missing here is the ability of the DL to force the QB to get rid of the ball before he wants to. That is what the issue is, and that's what the issue has always been.

Stop focusing on sack statistics as the only metric to judge the pass rush.

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Rhombic, I wasn't saying that I think the rush is perfect by any means either just to be sure we are understanding each other. Nor was I pointing out that hey there was 1 sack in the game in 2 quarters it should be fine. I saw some posts that could have been taken that way by some and wanted to share my opinion that it may be a little early to jump to that conclusion.

I also saw where you said that there were to many Defensive Lineman falling down and I think I counted 6 players falling or being pancaked in the first quarter we saw of FSU vs FLA and that number didn't stick out as to much to me. Twice the DT was double teamed, once it was a user. But again it is such a small sampling to even think about drawing a comparision on that level that it isn't fair to anyone to do so.

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Originally Posted by Rudy

I agree with Rhombic about the all or nothing pressure. That's why they need to reduce pancakes and knock downs and find a way to keep the players moving while blocking. A DT that gets a bull rush up the middle that just slowly pushes the guard back into the QB is good. Having the right ratio between a player quickly beating his opponent vs. a gradual win or lose is the important thing. It would also help the spread-option running game.

That said, I suck at passing. If I only got 3 seconds to throw the ball against the cpu I would never get anything going. I can usually get this area pretty good for me with sliders. I honestly haven't cared that much about the pass rush the last few years for offline play. 90%+ of the complaints come from the online community.

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I think I'm the worst passer in the damn game. I feel that way at times atleast.

I'll focus on whatever I want. Judging the game on 10 minutes of gameplay is dumb...good or bad.

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Originally Posted by Deuce

I'll focus on whatever I want. Judging the game on 10 minutes of gameplay is dumb...good or bad.

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Let's be honest, here. I'm judging it on more than just 10 minutes of gameplay, because I played hundreds of hours on NCAA 09-11, and for all intents and purposes the line play on '12 is similar to what it was on those games. That much is clear after watching the videos that have already been released, and after listening to what people who had hands-on time with the game had to say.

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Originally Posted by Deuce

I'll focus on whatever I want. Judging the game on 10 minutes of gameplay is dumb...good or bad.

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Absolutely that is the great thing about a game with sliders, you can adjust things to ones liking. What you may like as far as pressure and time to release the ball may and probably will be different from me or anyone else for that matter. Doesn't mean you or me are wrong, just different in things we enjoy out of the game. Which is why appeasing one set of people may upset the cart for others which makes EA's job all that much more difficult to balance.

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Originally Posted by psusnoop

I also saw where you said that there were to many Defensive Lineman falling down and I think I counted 6 players falling or being pancaked in the first quarter we saw of FSU vs FLA and that number didn't stick out as to much to me. Twice the DT was double teamed, once it was a user. But again it is such a small sampling to even think about drawing a comparision on that level that it isn't fair to anyone to do so.

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I guess I disagree. If we're talking about 6 players falling down in less than 20 snaps of play, that's a fairly high frequency of defensive linemen getting blocked completely to the ground, which doesn't happen all that often (on passing plays in particular), in real life. In the OK State-Missou vid, there is one play on Ben's second drive where 3 of the 4 defensive linemen end up on the ground. That just seems over the top to me.

But again, it's not about specific animations, though the animations they have in the game are pretty poor which probably contributes to the poor line play. The broader point is that the front 4 does not generate anything that resembles a realistic pass rush in terms of affecting the offense's timing in the passing game.

As for the people saying that they can't pass in under 3 seconds, my reaction to that is that you either shouldn't be playing on the default difficulty or you should be the ones adjusting sliders. The default settings should not cater to people who self-identify as horrible passers. Further, if you were routinely forced to throw it quicker, you'd probably adjust eventually and get better at making good pre-snap reads and learning how to quickly progress through your reads.

Sliders do not apply for online play (ranked games or dynasty), and thus the default settings are important for head to head competition, which is supposed to be geared towards rewarding the better player. It doesn't do that when the settings are such that gameplay is not accurately represented in terms of certain things being too easy or hard relative to how real football is played.

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Originally Posted by rhombic21

Sliders do not apply for online play (ranked games or dynasty), and thus the default settings are important for head to head competition, which is supposed to be geared towards rewarding the better player. It doesn't do that when the settings are such that gameplay is not accurately represented in terms of certain things being too easy or hard relative to how real football is played.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

The amount of gamers online in rooms are not looking for a sim game they are looking for W's and there lies the difference. Where as in an online dynasty you have players that want a great game without all the cheese and adjust the sliders to help in those areas.

This is a pointless discussion for me. I look at the game differently than most people. I choose to enjoy the game...I do every year. I figure if I'm paying $60 bucks are so then I better have fun. I use my imagination and try and justify most glitches, bugs, or cheats. If there is a play that works too well...I don't call it. Never called verticals last year b/c it was obviously money. All those little things that bug most people usually doesn't bother me.

Sliders don't even apply for user v user online dynasty games, so even if your argument about ranked games were valid (and it isn't), there's still no excuse for having the pass rush be so ineffective on the default settings.

People playing online games who only care about Ws will maximize to whatever the game allows. If the game forced them to play more realistically, then they'd play more realistically and have the same amount of fun. But the rest of us would have more fun too. And just because people play ranked games doesn't mean they want arcade football with ineffective pass defense. There are more people who play ranked games but still want a "sim" experience than you realize.

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Originally Posted by rhombic21

As for the people saying that they can't pass in under 3 seconds, my reaction to that is that you either shouldn't be playing on the default difficulty or you should be the ones adjusting sliders. The default settings should not cater to people who self-identify as horrible passers. Further, if you were routinely forced to throw it quicker, you'd probably adjust eventually and get better at making good pre-snap reads and learning how to quickly progress through your reads.

Sliders do not apply for online play (ranked games or dynasty), and thus the default settings are important for head to head competition, which is supposed to be geared towards rewarding the better player. It doesn't do that when the settings are such that gameplay is not accurately represented in terms of certain things being too easy or hard relative to how real football is played.

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I understand that online play has to play on default. I've never liked an EA football game on any default settings. The cpu run game is usually brutal and needs a lot of help on AA. That's usually the one area that needs the most work. I recognize the fact that I may have to adjust sliders offline but I'm OK with that as an offline player.

I do get annoyed when people tell me that I should suck it up, practice and get better. I've been playing football games for years. I'm not going to get much better. End of discussion. I have the same annoying argument about the pitch speed in MLB The Show. It's too fast and the slider doesn't work well. I get frustrated and I've given up on that game because of it. I'd rather play MLB 2K11 and not be so frustrated.

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Originally Posted by psusnoop

Absolutely that is the great thing about a game with sliders, you can adjust things to ones liking. What you may like as far as pressure and time to release the ball may and probably will be different from me or anyone else for that matter. Doesn't mean you or me are wrong, just different in things we enjoy out of the game. Which is why appeasing one set of people may upset the cart for others which makes EA's job all that much more difficult to balance.

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Totally agree which is why I love sliders and why I'm pushing for a separate man vs. zone coverage slider which should be very easy to implement.

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Originally Posted by rhombic21

Sliders don't even apply for user v user online dynasty games, so even if your argument about ranked games were valid (and it isn't), there's still no excuse for having the pass rush be so ineffective on the default settings.

People playing online games who only care about Ws will maximize to whatever the game allows. If the game forced them to play more realistically, then they'd play more realistically and have the same amount of fun. But the rest of us would have more fun too. And just because people play ranked games doesn't mean they want arcade football with ineffective pass defense. There are more people who play ranked games but still want a "sim" experience than you realize.

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I'll agree with that.

But I also know that deep down there really isn't anything that will be perfect. If it isn't the zone coverage, it will be the pass rush, if not that it will move onto something else. Sometimes we just need to look for solutions to problems and continue to grow the game instead of being a negative nancy all the time.

Deuce said it well, sometimes you just have to enjoy what we have and if that doesn't do it then maybe the game and series just isn't cut out for you. Always complaining about things just isn't the answer.

Where you play exclusively Online, Online Dynasty, or Offline, I think we can all agree that the default settings should provide a good game that is neither over the top nor unsatisfying. Then you can tweak from there to match your personal preference.

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

Where you play exclusively Online, Online Dynasty, or Offline, I think we can all agree that the default settings should provide a good game that is neither over the top nor unsatisfying. Then you can tweak from there to match your personal preference.

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Agree completely. NCAA '04 had that and that was pretty well the last game that did - online anyway.

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Originally Posted by I OU a Beatn

Agree completely. NCAA '04 had that and that was pretty well the last game that did - online anyway.

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Well, and that's a good example of how hard it is for even our "hardcore" community to agree. I know I loved NCAA 04, but I also know some people that passionately disagree with the idea that 04 was good.

They still have the fat # 1's on :Missouri: I've posted this on OS and I don't understand how they can have the number font's wrong. :Nebraska: is the same way. When you guys go back down there this month, can you ask them about this???

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Originally Posted by JeffHCross

Well, and that's a good example of how hard it is for even our "hardcore" community to agree. I know I loved NCAA 04, but I also know some people that passionately disagree with the idea that 04 was good.

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I don't see how. That game was as close to being perfectly balanced as any other they've released and there's not an even remotely close second. But yeah, I know you're one. There's always going to be someone who loves it and someone who hates it.

NCAA '04 was just a great game. Geared toward the offense slightly, but defensive struggles could happen as well. The crowd >>>>

Defensive struggles happened if you knew how to play defense. I vaguely remember rhombic shutting me out 14-0 in an online game in '04. I've never quite gotten over that game as it remains the only time I've ever been shut out. :D

But, that's why I think it was the most balanced. If you had a dominant set of offensive plays and knew the flaws with the defense, you could put up 50. However, if you knew how to play defense and was a good user tackler and good at manual coverage, you could completely shut people down. The difference being that there was genuine pressure in that game. If you dialed up a blitz at the right time, you'd get almost instant pressure and you could really cause a lot of confusion for your opponent.

Now, you blitz, your opponent sits in the pocket for 8 seconds, and then fires a dime to a wide open receiver who broke off his route.

The NCAA '04 talk is not accurate. First, zone coverage basically didn't work, and passing was really pretty easy. I pretty routinely completed over 80% of my passes, and had some games where I went something like 23 of 24. It was also possible to set up 4 and 5 play offenses that were virtually unstoppable. You could come out in the same formation and just audible at the line depending on what the defense came out in.

I also developed an option offense (from wishbone) that was essentially unstoppable.

Also, '04 was before you could do hot routes on defense and was before you could switch the direction of running plays. So they had a whole bunch of formations where you essentially couldn't run to the weakside because there were no running plays that went to that side.

'04 is remembered as a great game because it was the first time people could play online, and a lot of the basic mechanics of online play worked pretty well. But most people started out playing that game without much experience playing user v user. That was also before the days of youtube and video capture, so there wasn't anywhere near as much sophistication by people breaking down gamefilm to understand what was working and why. There was also a whole lot less Xs and Os coverage in mainstream media, so a lot of people didn't have much of a grasp about how football worked in real life.

If '04 came out today, it would be remembered the same way that NCAA '09 is -- "wide open gameplay, with absolutely no defense."

None of the PS2 games were any better balanced for offense and defense than NCAA 10-11 were.

I don't know. I distinctly remember starting fresh a few months before '05 came out and I was giving up less than 200 yards and under 14 points a game. Of course, I was running a bullshit defense, but nonetheless, it was definitely possible to stop people. I do remember zone defense being pretty bad, but when you had plays like a manually setup Dime Dog Gold, you don't even have to run zone defense.

I still stand by it as the most balanced between offense and defense. Every year since then has usually been completely one sided. I doubt we'll ever see a perfectly balanced game because EA obviously wants the game to appeal to casual players, and by incorporating that kind of balance, it would be alienating them which is something EA...unfortunately...is not going to do.

The most polished NCAA PS2 game IMO was 07. It's also my favorite of all NCAA games.

The PS2 games were so long ago that I think they mesh together in my mind. I know I played the living hell out of '04-'07 on PS2, but I couldn't tell you a single thing about them with any certainty. :D

I'm going to have to rent all these games again and play them to see if I still like them now. Chances are that I'll find the same issues that bug me now, just like rhombic said.

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Originally Posted by psusnoop

I'll agree with that.

But I also know that deep down there really isn't anything that will be perfect. If it isn't the zone coverage, it will be the pass rush, if not that it will move onto something else. Sometimes we just need to look for solutions to problems and continue to grow the game instead of being a negative nancy all the time.

Deuce said it well, sometimes you just have to enjoy what we have and if that doesn't do it then maybe the game and series just isn't cut out for you. Always complaining about things just isn't the answer.

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Well that's exactly it. It's not real live football, so there will always be an issue with something or other. There's going to be some things that aren't perfect. If it's the pass rush, then it's the pass rush, if it's an animation, it's an animation, if it's special teams.... I understand the sentiment to want to play real football, with real players that think for themselves and interact in a completely realistic way, because we would all want that, but it's just not going to happen. I'm gonna pick it up and play it all year long though :), I can tell you that! My suggestion: f the lack of a rush ruins your experience...plan on bumping up the sliders or don't buy it because it cannot leave you unsatisfied this way.

About the gameplay videos at 1/4th speed... I tried to combined the two gameplay segments into one video and had it edited down to 15:59 which SHOULD be allowed by Youtube. Apparently though when they finished processing it, they decided it was over the time limit so the 1/4th speed version is not available. However if you want to see only the gameplay moments, here is the same video playing at normal speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV6-HY91pfU

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Originally Posted by rhombic21

The NCAA '04 talk is not accurate. First, zone coverage basically didn't work, and passing was really pretty easy. I pretty routinely completed over 80% of my passes, and had some games where I went something like 23 of 24. It was also possible to set up 4 and 5 play offenses that were virtually unstoppable. You could come out in the same formation and just audible at the line depending on what the defense came out in.

I also developed an option offense (from wishbone) that was essentially unstoppable.

Also, '04 was before you could do hot routes on defense and was before you could switch the direction of running plays. So they had a whole bunch of formations where you essentially couldn't run to the weakside because there were no running plays that went to that side.

'04 is remembered as a great game because it was the first time people could play online, and a lot of the basic mechanics of online play worked pretty well. But most people started out playing that game without much experience playing user v user. That was also before the days of youtube and video capture, so there wasn't anywhere near as much sophistication by people breaking down gamefilm to understand what was working and why. There was also a whole lot less Xs and Os coverage in mainstream media, so a lot of people didn't have much of a grasp about how football worked in real life.

If '04 came out today, it would be remembered the same way that NCAA '09 is -- "wide open gameplay, with absolutely no defense."

None of the PS2 games were any better balanced for offense and defense than NCAA 10-11 were.

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I totally agree with this, I'm glad I am not the only one who see '04 in that same light. I agree the game really hasnt taken that many drastic strides, which is why I dumbfounded that people get so passonately upset about the game in the first place. I think if something keeps letting me down for almost 10 years I wouldnt be buying it anymore or even commenting on it anymore there really is no point but maybe I am too rational. With that I do feel sorry for you online only guys, I stopped playing online back in 06 so in my eyes you have been getting jaded for years now online really made my blood pressure rise too much which is why OD was such a god send. lol

PS. None of my comments where directed at rhombic he is actually one of the few people who post constructive criticism before he rants, not the other way around or leave the constructive part out all together.

I think why I'm still so fond of 04 was the way the CPU played. ..or maybe it was just a larger variation between good and bad players??? I am an offline player only and I always start off with a cupcake roster. I remember getting beaten badly during the first season in 04...I would go into games against a great team just hoping to keep it close. It took 3 to 4 years to get to the top. NCAA11 was the first iteration since then that I've struggled in my first season. I think I went 5-6 in my first season last year. 04 had its bugs and so does 11..and so will 12, 13, 14,15,...

Didn't 04 have the corner routes that were money and/or the HB direct? My memory sucks so I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted by xMrHitStickx904

The most polished NCAA PS2 game IMO was 07. It's also my favorite of all NCAA games.

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NCAA '07 on PS2 is definitely the version that I played the most. The year after that I switched to the 360 version of the game, and it hasn't been until NCAA '10 that those games were really even playable.

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Originally Posted by Deuce

Didn't 04 have the corner routes that were money and/or the HB direct? My memory sucks so I'm not sure.

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I think it had the corner routes but I know 06 HB direct was absolutely golden. You had to come out in something crazy like a punt formation to stop it. Like you though my memory sucks and then they all have merged in my memory.

Question for cd guys that I haven't seen asked anywhere yet:

Did any of you try the different speed settings yet? Ben says in the 3rd part video that there are 3 different settings for speed.