Read the article psuexv just posted, Gus.
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Read the article psuexv just posted, Gus.
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Well said psuexv, I have been trying to avoid saying a whole lot as I'm really emotionally tied to this stuff and can sometimes let my feelings overcome my fingers and mind while typing.Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
Gricar at the time he went missing was investigating a bigger story if I recall correctly. Plus just because he dropped the charges or didn't pursue them against Sandusky doesn't mean one is tied into the other. If people start those rumors they could do that to every single university out there. Let's allow the facts to come out.
That statement is the issue. From what is stated in the grand jury statement, this was not under Joe's watch. As OB stated, we don't know all of the facts, maybe something happened before 98 maybe something didn't.... We don't know. Most of the reports are after he retired from the university and all of the involvements were with boys from his charity, nothing to do with the Penn State FOOTBALL program. A number of the incidents even allegedly happened in his own house or at high schools that he was involved in. Did some of the events happen on PSU campus in football buildings, yes. But this would be more of a university issue. His access to the football buildings were part of his compensation package, he had no official interaction with the football team and Joe had no control over him from an "employer" relationship.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
I don't want to sound like I'm defending what happened or defending these people for doing nothing if in fact they knew what happened. It's the attitude that it was under Joe's "watch"..... yep Jerry would bring kids in and line them up and Joe would pick which one.
Still just assumption given the storied career of Joe Paterno that he had any knowledge of the 1998 incident. It has been reported that he didn't know anything, and hasn't come out officially that he has either. Yet everyone is "assuming" based off his name that he did. Lets allow things to come out (if they do) before we bury someone that maybe just maybe isn't the bad guy in all of this.
The Sandusky part of this story certainly hasn't run it's course either. As soon as this broke, every new media jumped in and on Joe and hasn't let up. While I can't understand why more wasn't done I also don't have certain facts about the information either. Until we know for sure what Joe reported to Curley and Shultz and what Mike McQueary reported to Joe I'll wait to pass my judgement on a man that has shown to be of good sound character.
I mean Mike McQueary reproted this immediately to his father John McQueary Chief Operating Officer/Administrative Director Centre Medical and Surgical Associates, P.C. certainly held the same moral obligations as others but I have YET to read one report or anything regarding his job or questioning his morals in this whole story.
All I know from the '98 investigating was that Joe stated to the Grand Jury that he didn't know about it. Did he lie, I have no idea. All I can go by is the facts that are presented to me. The rest is speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneback
That is what has been so hard about all of this. As we talk about it people quickly assume we are justifying the actions of some when in fact we are most certainly not just the way things are being portrayed or "reported" or decided upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
He busted that huge drug dealer like 2 years before and word was he wanted revenge. My money is that he's in witness protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by psusnoop
Well said, snoop.
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As for the riots, ah so they flipped one vehicle. I don't think it was nearly as bad as I feared last night and I'm glad.
Could be, I've flipped flopped a little on this and now leaning towards he is dead. If witness protection why the computer in the river? Maybe that is a cover for the witness protection maybe not. Just a thought on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
But yes that is what I remember about that time frame and certainly fits the mold much better the tied into this horrific acts at PSU.
OK now see this is why I have tried to stay clear of this and stayed up shooting people in Battlefield 3. I get so emotional and have just had a pounding headache for days about all of this stuff.
Sure I know many have their favorite teams but I know for a fact that Eric and having grown up here and been so close to this program this hits so close to home it is unreal. We live here, we have only known Joe Paterno as the head coach. We have only known PSU to be held at such a high standard that all of this is mind numbing and hard to take in. It is hard to stay to the facts, the media certainly hasn't. I could give you quote after quote of people "misremembering" what they read in the grand jury report yet they quickly hop on the radio, phone, or TV to chime in on this.
Also to go further on this, I was talking to Matt last night and you said something that struck me. The story of the lady at the bar saying how she couldn't believe that Joe molested all those children. :fp: That is how much Joe's name has been the lead story of this over the true predator and sick fuck that should be all over the news.
Okay so, Ashton Kutcher tweeted in outrage that Joe Pa was fired.
He didn't even know the story of what was going on :fp: :D
From the alleged facts I have heard/read, there were incidents where Sandusky showered with young boys to which one of the boys told his parents and the mother contacted campus security in 1998. There was an investigation by campus security to which Sandusky admitted to showering with the boy (under what pretense I don't know) and that he wouldn't do it again. Later that following year Joe Pa informed Sandusky that he would no longer be in line to take over as Head Coach, Sandusky then "retired" in 1999 and as part of his retirement he retained the right to utilize the Penn State athletic facilities. Then in 2000 a janitor witnessed Sandusky performing sexual acts on a minor and then later in the year another janitor witnessed Sandusky leaving a shower holding a minors hand. There are reports of other incidents up to 2009 as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
Now, I fully admit these are alleged facts and that it is pure speculation to say Joe Pa knew of these incidents, however there are red flags all over the place and rational thought tells you these incidents were known by Joe Pa and were probably the leading cause in informing Sandusky he would not be taking over as Head Coach.
What bothers me the most having grown up in a coaching family and having a family member as a big time college coach, is that the men involved in this case preach accountability and moral values on a daily basis but when it came time to practice what you preach they looked the other way. Is this a case where something looked odd and there were thoughts that there may be smoke but no fire and they tried to deal with it by sweeping it under the rug, maybe. However, if the alleged facts turn out to be true, where they thought there was only smoke there was a burning inferno to which the people entrusted with leading young men turned a blind eye and that is why the media is on Joe Pa's doorstep.
Having feeling like I know most the guys in this thread either through interacting via this forum or whatnot, I don't think anyone believes you guys are trying to justify anything, but that's just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by psusnoop
"Alleged facts"? :fp:
Just to clarify, the janitor "incidents" are all one incident. The hand-holding followed the shower setting all in the same night.
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I know you all know where we stand OB it is hard and a fine line on this subject though. So many victims and such a horrendous act makes this so hard to even think about.
I have had a pounding headache and can't sleep good since this all broke.
OB I can see where everyone is tying this all together as in how didn't he know, but until we see factual information and reports of such I don't think it is fair to assume as much either. (for those just reading that sentence please read everything posted by me and others and don't assume my stance on this matter) OB knows where I'm going with this.
I just have a hard time believing that Joe knew Jerry was raping or raped a young boy and choose to not address the situation. Yes we can go the grand jury report but we don't know all the fine details within it. There are gaps and questions that need addressed to clear up any doubt. Maybe only a few have doubts but I'm not one to judge people without knowing it all.
I can appreciate the Joe Paterno is an awesome coach, with regards to football. I think the problem is, ya'll are in the bubble. It's totally awesome you are tried and true Penn St fans. You should continue to support the program. You shouldn't say things like fuck penn state, go Irish. Maybe that's just emotions and jokes, but that is NOT what this story is about. Penn St's football program is not going to get the death penalty and from the sounds of no NCAA action will be done, NOR should it be. This has nothing to do with the football program.
It DOES have everything to do with Joe Paterno. Perhaps ya'll are blinded by it since you live in the bubble. Joe Pa wasn't just some football coach that should have told his boss. He is one of the BIGGEST guys in colllege football, he's not just a random coach. He's like Bear Bryant, or Vin Lombardi. I'd say he's even bigger than Bobby Bowden.
From an outsider's perspective, who else in your lifetime has been able to tell their boss NO I don't want to step down from my job? Joe did, he told them to get out of his house. He was in charge.
Who in their right mind has never heard gossip at work? Who has ever worked somewhere for 47 years? They have to talk! To make it sound like Joe didn't know anything about this is just plain SILLY!
Who in the their right mind would approach something like: So you go to the mall, there is old mall employee that has been rumored to have molested kids. You tell someone maybe a store manager and assume they will take it farther up the chain. Then you just IGNORE IT...then a few years pass and you see the SAME guy with kids...yet you don't stop to wonder...HEY what ever happened? Maybe I should follow up? What if years later it was YOUR kid walking with that same freakshow? Would you not ask? Would you not wonder? Would you just sleep sound at night with the "well I know he may have maybe done something sicko with kids 3-4 years ago, but he's a good guy and besides, I told that one guy at the, the store manager....and he would NEVER do something with other kids including MINE."
YEAH RIGHT!
Seriously? Joe Paterano should have done more.
Years after Joe is no longer his "boss" this Freakshow is invited on Penn St bowl games and just happens to have a child as his "guest" who also happens to stay with him in his hotel room? I guess Joe didn't see that either. For real? Joe couldn't have done more?
Do you see, outside of how he's a great football coach how this is morally wrong? Can you seperate the football GAME part of it with REAL LIFE? Why in the world did Joe say, I wish I would have done more? Who says that after the fact?
The dude goes on to molest and hurt kids long after the fact and all you can say is I wish I did more?....MY BAD, so can I coach this weekend? Seriously?
It just keeps soundling like this, to an outsider like me from those of ya'll in the bubble...."so yeah it sucks and all that kids were raped and molested.....can Joe coach more, what about football, football, football?" Seriously? That's the focus?
Personally I find it VERY strange, I'm not a coach, but I figure those guys basically live together. They are with their team and fellow coaches MUCH more than they are with their own families. Are we to believe NONE of them knew about this, none of them talked about it? Nothing was every said? They have all been together MUCH longer than, many years together, bus trips, recruiting trips, all the time spent together and they NEVER talked about it and never thought it was strange that the Dude was still working around/with and inviting kids to sleep over at his house?
...."oh gee that sure does sound strange to me bob...well onto bigger and more important things in life, like what kinda coverage scheme we're going to run this weekend."
I think Penn State is awesome. When I was a kid my Dad earned his Ph.D in Petroleum Eng from Rolla, MO. He interviewed at 2 places, Texas Tech University and Penn State. He chose Texas Tech. I was only in the 9th grade when this happened but I wanted Penn State. I watched football, I thought and STILL think they were awesome. My Dad brought back Penn St sweatshirts for me and my brother. Same from Tech, but I always wore the Penn State one. I'm not saying the football team still isn't bad-ass, I'm just saying that there are more important things in life, protecting children from predators should be job #1.
What if one of these kids dreamed of someday becomming the head coach at Penn St, then this happens to them...their life would be turned upside down. The kids are the important thing here, not that an 84 year old man lost his job. He's lived a very full life, these kids that are mentally dealing with this have a long time before they reach 84.
I'm sure ya'll will continue to tell me to look at stories about how Joe is getting the raw deal here...really? What about those kids? What do they get?
I'll say this first as I'm losing my spots here Gus, first off I haven't mentioned or seen anyone post they wanted Joe to keep coaching. Steelerfan mentioned Suspending him till all the facts of the case comes out.
Assuming that the rest of the staff knew about this is absurd and having someone (my neighbor) on the staff I find this statement to be absurd and way off base.
I'll have to read your post again to comment more but these two things jumped out first and I wanted to get it out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psusnoop
I think they want them (coaching staff) to stay quiet for legal reasons. This just came, people are going to sue.
When Bonfire fell, NO ONE was going to sue, they all stood behind A&M. Then over time, every single family that lost a child put it to A&M.
Penn St is telling everyone to stay quiet for legal reasons.
The reports asked the interm coach today in his press conference a "sticky" question. It seems obivous but I think lawyers were probably squirming in the background. Someone asked him the obivious, if someone sees something this being done to a student, or hears about it or knows about it, shouldn't they take it to the authorties?
His answer after a few seconds was, yes, without a doubt....
Ok we'll he's been there a for a long time too, last night or a few days ago was the 1st time he's EVER heard of this?
FOR REAL?!
EDIT: Time will tell how "absurd" this is. I'll be amazed if more doesn't come out of the woodworks. I HOPE PRAY more doesn't but it just doesn't seem like the University would jump to such a big idea as firing the President and head football coach on a whim. If they did, then the univeristy has those issues to deal with too.
I would agree, it seems like there is a "little" thing called due process or law...but for that many regents and trustess to get together and decided 100% it seems like they aren't telling us all the facts due to pending lawsuits. They are covering their butts.
Gus, you have so many facts mixed up, I don't even care to address it all right now.
And, for clarity's sake, I don't "live in the bubble". I live in Northwest Houston. I've never lived in PA and I didn't go to school at PSU. I've just been a fan for about 30 years. I'm the one who said what you quoted, not the guys who live there.
My problem is that he was fired when he should have (at most) been suspended. If he participated in a coverup, fine. But we don't know that, and the BOT says they don't know that either.
What we know is that McQueary told him that he may have witnessed some sort of molestation. Paterno, in turn, turned out over to his bosses. One of his bosses (Schultz) had the campus police under his areas of responsibility. The other boss (Curly) later told Joe that it was looked into and found to be "horse play"and that they told Sandusky not to bring anymore kids to the campus. At this point, that is all that is known, and that is all that is in the Grand Jury Report.
Anything else is an ASSumption.
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This is rumor and nothing factual has ever come out. When asked last night the BOT denied it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
Well actually lots of people say that after the fact. I wish I wouldn't have tried driving 100+ down a curvy highway when I was younger and seriously injuring me and my friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
Once again not once have I stated that Joe should be coaching Saturday or thereafter.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
This statement is silly Gus, like I said earlier knowing some of these coaches and throwing such a blanket over them all is not fair and something that many of them are having a tough time dealing with right now. This is not right, not fair and not something that I like from society when we think like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
Anyone that thinks anyone is getting anything of a positive from this all is really sick and perverse. There are tons of people and victims that are dealing with things that many of us can only imagine. No one here is trying to do anything other then ask that justice be served and the facts come out.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
Thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and many people that this has affected.
3. "JOE PATERNO ENABLED A CHILD RAPIST"
Use your words better. I understand your need for emphasis to sell, but using the word enable makes it seem like Joe hand-picked the boys for Sandusky.
This rationale is just not sound.
Let's say my wife is an alcoholic, WHICH SHE IS NOT. I know she drinks and then gets violent. I don't get her help and I don't keep her from buy more booze. I am ENABLING her behavior. Am I buying her the drinks NO, am I throwing the AA cards away? NO....I am STILL enabling, all it simply means he Joe allowed it to continue. It never says ANYTHING about Joe hand-picking kids. That simple statement makes this report sound like it's written by a child.
Who in the right mind would THINK Joe was picking kids out for this guy? REALLY?
You said there is almost no way the staff as a whole couldn't have any idea of this happening. That comment right there is sickening to me and one that is without merit.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
Sure there may be more to come out from this, I sure hope not but there may but to throw such a broad blanket over the whole staff without knowing any more factual information is "absurd" as I put it.
Also, I stick by what I said, I'm done with PSU.
Congratulations to the Worldwide Leader in Hype (ESPN). You got your way, your story, and your man. You have destroyed a man and his legacy by creating a stir of speculation, assumptions, and half-truths. Journalism at it's finest. And the bovine-human herd that is the American Public, has fallen for every bit of your bullshit.
It's so good to live in America where everyone is assumed guilty until proven innocent. And by time they ate proven innocent, the damage is done. Fucking bullshit.
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psusnoop, I have no clue what your real name is. Yes mine is Gus, just seems like you want to single me out. I'm not going to argue or pick things apart with you.
I understand 100% your mentality now. I felt the exact same way when I was "inside the A&M bubble" in 1998. In time, and unfortuneately these things never seem to get better as more information comes out, I think there will be more facts that come out and it will be shown why the university made the descions they made.
There are still "lost people" here that think Bonfire should return, they say things like, oh just have them sign a waiver...serioulsy? to have people/humans working on such a fragile stack of LUMBER is crazy! It's really amazing nothing like the '98 incident didn't happen soon and more frequently.
To have this ex-coach still be with kids, working with them, bringing them on campus, to his home, to bowl games that involved the university and to just turn a blind eye? That too is crazy!
Let's be honest, football is a BIG deal. Joe Paterno and his staff should have said something. They should have done more. Just like student atheletes they are a representative of the school. He was fired as was the president b/c by keeping them on the payroll would say, "we don't know all the facts but we'll just take the risk and let the cookie crumble as it will." That isn't taking a stand.
Another decent read. Something I completely missed but is pointed out here. People saying Joe didn't go to the authorities, Shultz was the head of the Penn State Police department, which Joe knew to be involved in the interview with McQueary and handling the case.
Could he have followed up more, not sure I agree 100% with this lawyers reasoning why he shouldn't have but it's a point of view.
http://thatlawyerdude.blogspot.com/2...terno-why.html
Quote:
A Strong Defense of Joe Paterno: Why Paterno Was Morally & Ethically Right Not To Go Further in The Sandusky Sex Abuse Case
In the comments section of an article in an SI online blog post by Joe Posnanski, Columbia Univ. Adjunct Professor Scott Semer assails Joe Paterno for not taking greater actions in the Jerry Sandusky case (Link is to the actual Grand Jury Report. It is not for the squeamish.)
Semer rests his opinions as a lawyer and an Adjunct Professor of Transactional Law at Columbia Univ. in NYC. He takes what I believe is the majority opinion as to Coach Paterno's decisions which is that he did the least he could do to cover himself but owed a moral duty to do more.
I too am an attorney, a criminal defense lawyer, a former special prosecutor, and an adjunct professor of Trial Advocacy, and as to his judgment of Paterno I completely disagree with Professor Semer. I think Paterno did what was both morally and legally correct.
After contacting his chain of command superiors, he let them do their jobs. He knew there was a campus police force that investigates ( and prosecutes ) crimes on campus. He took whatever information he had to the head of his department. He took it to the person who is, for all intents and purposes, the police commissioner of a 256 person police force which according to the Campus website says: "(The University Police are) governed by a state statute that gives our officers the same authority as municipal police officers."
Paterno didn't just give his information to a superior, he turned it over to the highest ranking official in that police department. That man, PSU's VP of Business called in the ACTUAL WITNESS and spoke to him. In other words Paterno could see an investigation.
Suggesting Paterno should have then done more is both ridiculous and dangerous. Paterno should not have approached Sandusky,for fear he tip him off to the investigation; he should not have called University police after nothing happened because 1. A police department has a right to set its policing priorities. The Courts have consistently held that: it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981).
2. Once he reported the incident (and not having any information as to the progress of any investigation or the results thereof) Paterno had no other action he could reasonably take. If he pressed further or went public he risked opening himself and the University up to a law suit from Sandusky for libel , and that is assuming Paterno thought the grad assistant was both reliable and accurate. By that person's own admission he was distraught. He would be accused of trying to eliminate a potential competitor for his job. He would also call into question the safety of the campus and without any proof of his own on the allegations of another. Pattern is not a witness and arguably isn't even an "outcry witness." ( an outcry witness is one who verifies that another witness was so distraught that what they are saying must be true. To be an outcry witness the original witness must make his statement to you first and within a few minutes top hours after witnessing the incident. More than a couple of hours usually spoils the outcry's reliability. It gives the maker too much time to make up the testimony)
3. Assuming Paterno did go to the Chief of Police for the Penn State police department, the person under Gary Schultz, would that not be an act of insubordination? What if he were wrong? He would lose a long time friend and PSU family member. He would hurt alums, recruits and his teams. His fellow coaches could not trust him, all of this without being an actual witness to anything. Taking one man's word against anothers.
Noone wants to see kids hurt, and I believe Coach Paterno heads that list. People suggesting he needed to do more either don't understand the law of criminal investigation, or have a different ax to grind ( like the head of the PA State Police who is grand standing in saying people have a greater responsibility than to report crime to the local Authority. He would be the first guy to defend a civil rights suit against his agency, (brought by a crime victim claiming that the failure to arrest caused her injuries) by invoking the Warren case.)
Paterno handled this exactly as he should have and to suggest otherwise is to use 20/20 hindsight to judge what was a fluid real time situation. I guess the path is always clear for the Monday Morning Quarterback.
By potentially firing a man without knowing all the facts of his involvement, that's taking a stand. If they didn't know all of the facts they should have suspended him until they did know all of the facts or had a better handle on the facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
I will say that it's quite possible that most of the coaching staff knew nothing of the incidents, they may have heard something, but I can fully support the notion the didn't know. However, I cannot fathom Joe Pa not finding out via school authorities or law enforcement when the first investigations started.
Let's take a look at Texas' own closet and the case of Cleve Bryant, once the red flags were raised Mack Brown was alerted and within 6 months Cleve was fired and the person that raised the sexual harassment case was paid $400,000 by the University of Texas. It took 6 months in this case from start to finish once the allegations were raised.
In the case of Sandusky, there we're multiple documented incidents from 1998 (possibly earlier) until 2009 and to think Joe Pa knew nothing for 4 years after the first reported incident is absurd. I know news travels faster now, but let's not confuse communication in 1998 with Phillippides running from Marathon to Sparta to ask for help against the Persian Army.
PSU guys, I am pretty torn about this as well...I've learned a lot from Sandusky via video and books and have always held him in high regard as a great coach and this pretty much throws that thought out the window. As much as I hate to agree with an Aggie (:P), this isn't about football and while I can certainly understand how it feels all in the same to those that bleed PSU blue in the end it sounds like to this outsider that a group of men got together and decided to protect the brand more-so than to protect the individuals that have really been hurt by the indiscretions of a troubled person.
In all honesty, I know why they did it as there are examples of others doing the same in order to protect their brand/business. However, what really makes me sick is that those individuals unlike those in the business world don't stand up in front of 100 young men and preach about discipline, accountability and moral values and while it wouldn't make it any better I'm sure all of this would blow over a lot quicker if they just came out and said that they we're trying to protect the brand and thought they had handled the situation so that then the light can then shine directly in the face of Sandusky who in this case I would fully support the Islamic tradition of an eye for an eye.
I also find it strange that there was a local high school teacher here in Bryan a couple of years back that it was "suggested" that he had sex with a minor. He was hunted down and put behind bars. If he came up innocent oh well that's how it works.
How in the WORLD is this Sandusky guy able to walk around be at his house wearing PENN St clothing? Am I on drugs, maybe I am, but ESPN is saying he's still not in jail. How is that possible?
Please someone tell me he's behind bars.
By the way, the Bryan ISD teacher was found guilty and is in prison. He was a baseball coach.
I agree OB. It isn't about football, but that is all anyone is talking about in the media and trickling down to the masses. Not just sports shows, all major outlets are keyed in on Paterno. The frenzy made it about football and the BOT was forced to act to "protect their image". They felt forced to act due to PR and show that they needed to make a stand. So they fired Joe Paterno since he is all anyone is talking about. Isn't this how this whole mess started, by protecting an image, aren't they making the safe mistakes. How about "We are truly sorry for these allegations and events that took place, some potentially on our campus. We are going to deploy all resources that are necessary to assist with the legal matters to bring light to these terrible allegations and that any responsible parties be held accountable. At this time we are suspending Joe Paterno, Mike McQuery, Tim Curley and Graham Spanier until further developments are brought to our attention. We have set up a hotline and are providing resources to any victims."
Where's the Second Mile in all of these reports and media stories? Yes some of it happened on campus at PSU, but these were kids that the Second Mile allowed him to be in contact with. And after, according to the Grand Jury they were alerted to the incident in 2002. You say you can't believe that Joe wasn't told in '98, yet I see nobody calling BS that the Second Mile wasn't alerted in '98 either.
I want everyone to burn that was involved, including Joe if it comes to that. But it is hard to sit back and see that SO many other people could have been involved and the focus is on Joe.
Gig, this is what we are saying and frustrates us. Nobody seems to care about Sandusky and he is criminal number one. Everyone is focusing on Joe, even though he was removed from it so to speak and his only possible crime is he didn't follow up to see if anything was done.Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigemaggs99
its all conjecture and hearsay as far as Paterno is concerned..the board said they knew nothing as far as facts and still had to look at it..yet still, they just wash their hands of it and fire Paterno with nothing trully pinpointing him in anything...people below and above Paterno may have orchestrated something,but axing Joe, proved and solved nothing
Yep. While the world is hunting/harrassing/ruining Coach Paterno, Sandusky may well be raping more boys. Yet, all we care about is the victims. :fp:Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
So who at ESPN gets fired if out comes out that Sandusky raped someone last night?
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That's all well and good to smooth over what is happening in the here and now, which in reality is all they have control over, however the question would then be raised as to why these steps weren't taken back in 1998. Let's be honest, if they would have suspended Sandusky pending a further investigation back in 1998 all of this would be old news and probably wouldn't have been as big of a story as it is now. It's blown up to the proportions we see now because it's 13 years after-the-fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
I've heard allegations about Second Mile as well:Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
It's also been thrown out that Second Mile was a safe haven for Sandusky and other like minded individuals, while not everyone affiliated wih Second Mile is being thrown under the bus there are rumors it was a front for pedophiles.Quote:
“I hear a rumor that there will be a shocking development from the Second Miles Foundation … That Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors.” - Mark Madden
I agree, however the focus is on Joe because some of the incidents happened on campus and Joe is the face of Penn State to most outsiders and is being used as a stand-in for the University. It also doesn't help that he and Sandusky were close, not to implicate Joe in any wrong doing but the media/public latches on to that sort-of-thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
Gus my name is Jeremy sorry thought u knew.
I'm singling out your comment that there was and is no way that the staff didnt know about these crimes via hear say simple because they worked together.
That is the comment that I'm talking about, and find crazy to make such an assumption.
God forbid they focus on Sandusky or both McQuearys but I guess those names don't drive ratings like a Paterno.Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
if this puts penn State football in the dumper.. I'll be paying a little more attention to Michigan games next year LOL
alright, enough screwing around- its time to send a team of investigators to Duke and uncover the Real Mike Krzyzewski !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! after all, he was a friend of Bobby Knights..........and thats another thing, last night watching that stuff on the news, it was like a weird-er version of the whole Bobby Knight thing...and of course, Knight was an angry, abusive, control freak who needed to be axed IMO......but for the most part, college kids dont riot because they believe in anything..they just riot because " hey, we're in college, lets go riot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The board said they knew nothing. I take that with a grain of salt. Pres Clinton said he didn't have sexual relations, people say shit all the time to the media. They all have lawyers that advise them what to and not to say.
I will say it's nice to hear the interm guy say, "I was advised NOT to comment on this." That doesn't mean he knows or doesn't know anything, it means legally they want him quiet.
Again Penn St is doing disaster recovery, if the interm goes on live t.v. the day after Joe PA is fired and outright says, "Hell yeah I knew" that would make this thing blow up like a nuclear bomb. Saying he has no comment just keeps everyone asking more, but also keeps some sort of "order."
If Joe was able to coach this weekend, there is NO WAY the questions would stop. What would they talk about after the Neb game, in the post game? The pass rush? HELL NO.
It's just hard to stomach, it's sucks! Joe Paterno seems like a good honest guy. It sucks that over a long time he's been built up as a "family guy" "Penn St-family guy", yet this can happen and it seems like on one hand you have this awesome stand out guy that only does the BEST in all aspects of life and then when something horrible happens and he learns about it, he does tell a superior/campus cop and then later says he wishes he would have done more.
This feels a lot like the Tiger Woods scandal.
I agree with a reporter that came on the Jim Rome radio show, if Tiger Woods would have come out and talked for hours in a press conference and said, "Ok look, I'm going to sit here ALL DAMN day and answer every question in the book, then when it's over IT'S OVER." But instead, he says things like this is a private matter, I'm working with my wife, please leave her out of it...blah blah blah....
Well Penn State could have done the same on Tuesday, but they cancelled the press conference. The problem in the comparision is, Joe Paterno isn't "PENN STATE" even though he's pretty damn close. There is an institution, not just a football coach. Tiger Woods did this with adults, the Penn State's issue it with minors.
I hear these people/protestors go on the t.v. and say, Joe Pa was randomly fired, look at all the money he gave to the university. I guess people are emotional and they are said their coach is gone, but giving 1 penny or 10 million for a library doesn't excuse the fact that a coach of 30+ plus years on his staff, and I would assume after that long would be considered a friend, did this and he just looks the otherway.
There has to be some sort of ramification for Joe. He picks his staff, they represent the university. The university went after Joe b/c he put those people in place to work with and represent the university. So did the President, he backed Joe. The trustess are saying, LOOK if ya'll back this, then you're fired. Makes sense to me. Is it fair, NO Is life fair? NO
Does it seem like Joe is getting the shaft, sort of. But He should have know what was going on, he should have done more. He's the head coach, he's their boss. They report to him.
I understand why he was fired. Just sucks, it would have been cool to see him continue to break records from the football side of it. But this is way WAY beyond football right now.
this just in----
John Wooden was addicted to Maple bar donuts, sometimes eating 2 at a time.......the LA police force knew this and said nothing....its true......
I agree with a lot said here. It felt like ESPN was some new york house wives or MTV reality show last night. It felt like they just kept going on and on about the same stuff. I thought at some point....aren't they supposed to report sports?
I actually turned off NCAA 12 to see the end of the football game, then found it all blowing up and oh by the way the football game was moved to ESPNU tune in there to watch sports.
Then for them to keep going to the reporters in the riot, asking them, what do you see what do you see....it's a bunch of drunk kids or people standing around holding cell phones...what does this have to do with SPORTS?
comparing this Bobby Knight is a stretch. Like I said with the comparision to Tiger Woods, he did this with adults. When the Penn St story first broke I was asking my wife, why in the HELL can't a full grown man-football player keep some old coach off his ass in the showers????? Then the more I learned that it was not a player, not an adult, but a 10 year old boy! He had no chance.
He wasn't a player on Bobby Knights team that could quit playing, he wasn't an adult. Taking advantage of children and abusing your power is....I have no adjective. In the report where he promises kids they can be walk-ons at Penn State? That right there tells you of the abuse of power.
I don't know, this is just some sicko shit. I'm going to try and turn NCAA 12 back on and have "fun". This story is all over the news and it's all they are talking about on sports radio. It will be nice when justice is served and we can move on.
I'm not trying to pick fights with anyone here. I respect everyone's opinions and thoughts. I appreciate ya'll (Staff) here at TGT for giving us a forum to talk this stuff out. Sometimes people like me, we have to talk and talk and talk to help with the healing process. It's all just so strange to me.
Again, thanks to all for listening and keeping it civil. psusnoop, psuexv, ramjackson, steelerfan, and all those I failed to mention. Thanks for you perspectives and thoughts.
Oneback: FU....just kidding! I liked your "Aggie" :up: jab. I appreciate you taking my ideas with a grain of salt. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm not saying I'm wrong. I just need to talk to someone about this craziness. Lord knows I can't talk to my 3-year or 4-month old about it. Thank you sir, and Gig 'Em.
Hopefully the truth will come out soon and we can all move on to better things like good college football games.
I for one will be cheering for Penn St this weekend vs Neb.
ok, one last thing so I don't have to puke. I agree the news media makes things much worse than they need to. They just replayed the clip at Joe Pa's house last night, and the reporter asks, "What's this day been like for you?"
LOLLOLOLOLOLOOL
The next time someone witnesses a nuclear explosion or some sort of HUGE melt down, they should ask, "so did you see anything out of the oridinary?"
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL :sick: