Penn State Football

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

07-30-2012, 11:57 AM
psuexv

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBHuskers

I haven't been keeping up with this thread lately, so not sure if this was already posted, but I thought it was cool that Penn State is trying for a 13th game in Hawaii every year they're in a bowl ban. Hope that happens.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

I actually haven't been keeping up either but I believe this was posted. I can see the NCAA putting the banhammer on that though. No way they allow them to circumvent the system. Now if they schedule it as one of the out of conference games and do it the last week of the year the NCAA won't be able to do anything, I don't think.
07-30-2012, 12:07 PM
JBHuskers

Quote:

Originally Posted by psuexv

I actually haven't been keeping up either but I believe this was posted. I can see the NCAA putting the banhammer on that though. No way they allow them to circumvent the system. Now if they schedule it as one of the out of conference games and do it the last week of the year the NCAA won't be able to do anything, I don't think.

Well they're not getting any bowl profits, so I dunno how much of circumventing the system it is. Isn't profit the main reason for a bowl ban?
07-30-2012, 12:16 PM
CLW

Quote:

Originally Posted by psusnoop

Question CLW, since the NCAA has imposed sanctions have they now opened themselves up to civil suits as well?

There was an attorney on, I think, the Finebaum show earlier this week saying that the NCAA has started down a very slippery slope, because this punishment suggests oversight and responsibility, and thus liability.

This was posted as a question on the boards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballplyrmvp

yes, they can be sued.

when the USC sanctions came down, they gave former rb coach todd mcnair a show-cause penalty, prohibiting him from interacting with recruits for a year. since his contract with USC expired, he decided to sue the ncaa for breach of contract, libel, slander, and misconduct. the lawsuit is still ongoing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by psusnoop

If the victims can sue the NCAA it would be interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffHCross

You must listen to XM College Sports, because I'm pretty sure that was on Coast to Coast. I was sitting on hold during that discussion, wanting to talk about something related :D

Well, anyone can be sued. The real question is whether or not they opened themselves up to additional liability by suggesting responsibility to oversee all actions of the athletic department, and not just sports-related actions.

Sorry for the delayed response. The Answer to the question is of course they can be sued. Hell, you and I could theoretically be sued by the Penn State victims in this case. The question of course is would the law hold the NCAA (or us) liable.

I've seen no evidence that anyone in the NCAA was complicit with Penn State in the cover up. Therefore, the only civil common law theory I can think of off of the top of my head (assuming no statute is on point) would be a negligence theory.

Negligence generally requires 4 elements: (1) Legal Duty to the Victim/Injured; (2) Breach of the duty; (3) the breach caused the injury; (4) damages.

A case against the NCAA would be EXTREMELY difficult (i.e. you'd have to forum shop HARD - i.e. get an uber liberal judge and a uber liberal jury pool)

The 1st problem with a negligence theory is the duty element. While Penn State CLEARLY had a duty to protect the children that were on campus I'm not sure it applies to the NCAA. It would require a LONG read of all of the agreements/laws/regs/etc... but I would suspect the NCAA makes clear that they are merely an enforcement body and not some proactive group that is ultimately responsible for the conduct of its members.

I'd have to listen to Emert's speech for the Penn State punishment but as I recall I don't believe he said the NCAA was responsible for its PRIOR conduct. Rather as I recall he simply indicated that the NCAA was going to take an active role FOR THE NEXT X YEARS. As such, I supose a theory could be made should this happen again during the X year period but its not something that is retroactive.

Assuming a theory could be made out that the NCAA had a legal duty to the victims and they breached that duty b/c they didn't catch Penn State in time the victims still have a causation element problem.

Causation is generally a "but for..." test meaning but for the conduct of the NCAA the injuries would not have happened. This stuff gets extremely easy to make out and Chaos theory type claims often can be made. However, the law also limits "but for" causation with concepts of "intervening" and/or "superseding" causation.

Basically, X makes a mistake that causes Y to get a bump on his knee. Y goes to the hospital and a terrorist blows up the building killing Y. Some idiot lawyer for Y's estate sues X for his death because "but for" X's mistake Y never would have died. However, the law cuts off X's liability because of the intervening/superseding cause of the terrorist's actions.

Here its basically the same: even if the NCAA screwed up Sandusky (and potentially others) criminal activity acts as an intervening/superseding cause to the victims injuries.

As such, the NCAA might get sued but would probably prevail. Of course, most plaintiffs lawyers know this but still sue and hope to get a "nominal" settlement from the NCAA to avoid the bad PR and/or save the cost of defense attorneys billing the NCAA.
07-30-2012, 12:21 PM
psusnoop

Thanks CLW, much appreciated for the breakdown!
07-30-2012, 09:50 PM
baseballplyrmvp

what goes around, comes around

side note....silas redd will be announcing his decision tomorrow.
07-30-2012, 10:04 PM
SmoothPancakes

Not even the same. SMU didn't have a program in 1987 and cancelled the 1988 season. There wasn't a football team and there weren't football players. There is still a team and still players at Penn State. Just more media fucktards jumping on the bash Penn State hatewagon. They can all go fuck themselves. I didn't even get a damn about Penn State when all this started, but the never ending bashing, hate and attacks have gotten so fucking old, I'm take Penn State's side from now on. Fuck the media.
07-30-2012, 11:12 PM
psusnoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes

Not even the same. SMU didn't have a program in 1987 and cancelled the 1988 season. There wasn't a football team and there weren't football players. There is still a team and still players at Penn State. Just more media fucktards jumping on the bash Penn State hatewagon. They can all go fuck themselves. I didn't even get a damn about Penn State when all this started, but the never ending bashing, hate and attacks have gotten so fucking old, I'm take Penn State's side from now on. Fuck the media.

:clap:
07-30-2012, 11:26 PM
baseballplyrmvp

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes

Not even the same. SMU didn't have a program in 1987 and cancelled the 1988 season. There wasn't a football team and there weren't football players. There is still a team and still players at Penn State. Just more media fucktards jumping on the bash Penn State hatewagon. They can all go fuck themselves. I didn't even get a damn about Penn State when all this started, but the never ending bashing, hate and attacks have gotten so fucking old, I'm take Penn State's side from now on. Fuck the media.

its still a free agency period, and the article shows that penn state was just as involved as other schools in a free agency period..... i know that with the USC transfer situation, there were over 40 schools who contacted USC players about transfering and not one school notified USC that they were recruiting their players. i guess i find it funny how everyone was so quick to bash USC, even when it was Redd who initiated the contact to the USC coaching staff, and how a huge deal was made when USC told penn state that they were gonna pursue Redd. how many other schools have told penn state they were gonna recruit their players? i know that the georgia and clemson HC's have said on the espn ticker that they would absolutely recruit the penn state players.

i agree though about the media. it seems like everyday, there's a new idiot out there writing/reporting a story filled with crap and has zero concern about actually reporting the truth. kinda sad how the media cares more about their ratings than actually reporting news.
07-31-2012, 05:58 AM
psusnoop

By the way MVP and Smooth I was completely agreeing with the "Just more media fucktards jumping on the bash Penn State hatewagon. They can all go fuck themselves. I didn't even get a damn about Penn State when all this started, but the never ending bashing, hate and attacks have gotten so fucking old, I'm take Penn State's side from now on. Fuck the media."

For the record. :D

MVP like Eric and I have said I don't mind him transferring but to go to a school and see maybe 80-110 carries for the year makes little sense to me.

With Barkley and McNeal set as the starting QB and HB adding Redd adds depth (which is nice for Kiffen) but how does that exactly improve things for Redd?
07-31-2012, 06:22 AM
oweb26

Quote:

Originally Posted by psusnoop

By the way MVP and Smooth I was completely agreeing with the "Just more media fucktards jumping on the bash Penn State hatewagon. They can all go fuck themselves. I didn't even get a damn about Penn State when all this started, but the never ending bashing, hate and attacks have gotten so fucking old, I'm take Penn State's side from now on. Fuck the media."

For the record. :D

MVP like Eric and I have said I don't mind him transferring but to go to a school and see maybe 80-110 carries for the year makes little sense to me.

With Barkley and McNeal set as the starting QB and HB adding Redd adds depth (which is nice for Kiffen) but how does that exactly improve things for Redd?

If he can get 80-110 carries and actually be productive on a 10-1 (maybe 11-0) football team equals a second round draft pick 110+ carries on a 4-7 teams equals late draft pick somewhere.

No matter what the experts tell you how good your college team is makes a world of difference on where you get drafted unless he is just dominate which teams are more likely to just stack the box; there is no way he goes high in the draft, I think its safe to assume that Penn State will not be that good this year ( at least the stats would tell us), can they pull off a great season of course but it is highly unlikely.

The transfer makes perfect sense to me in abnormal situations you have to get that " whats good for me" mentality especially when something like this is going on and you have no control over it.
07-31-2012, 06:40 AM
souljahbill

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBHuskers

Well they're not getting any bowl profits, so I dunno how much of circumventing the system it is. Isn't profit the main reason for a bowl ban?

Actually, if you get a chance to read "Death to the BCS," you'll see that schools LOSE money going to bowls. The people putting on the bowls and the conference make all the money but teams do it anyway so they can get exposure and can say "We went to the _________ Bowl" in the hopes of getting recruits and keep boosters pumping cash into a "successful" program.

There's a reason that book is the first book I've read cover to cover since high school.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
07-31-2012, 07:34 AM
psusnoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by oweb26

If he can get 80-110 carries and actually be productive on a 10-1 (maybe 11-0) football team equals a second round draft pick 110+ carries on a 4-7 teams equals late draft pick somewhere.

No matter what the experts tell you how good your college team is makes a world of difference on where you get drafted unless he is just dominate which teams are more likely to just stack the box; there is no way he goes high in the draft, I think its safe to assume that Penn State will not be that good this year ( at least the stats would tell us), can they pull off a great season of course but it is highly unlikely.

The transfer makes perfect sense to me in abnormal situations you have to get that " whats good for me" mentality especially when something like this is going on and you have no control over it.

Again, I'm not implying him staying at PSU I'm saying why go to USC and be a backup or split time when he is a starting HB. For pete's sake go to Bama, Miami, Stanford, Florida, FSU, and the list goes on and on where he can play for a very competitive team and be the starting HB. Name me a RB that wants to play second fiddle to a QB making a Heisman push let alone knowing he is splitting reps with another Maxwell and Doak Walker preseason watch list candidate?
07-31-2012, 11:02 AM
oweb26

Quote:

Originally Posted by psusnoop

Again, I'm not implying him staying at PSU I'm saying why go to USC and be a backup or split time when he is a starting HB. For pete's sake go to Bama, Miami, Stanford, Florida, FSU, and the list goes on and on where he can play for a very competitive team and be the starting HB. Name me a RB that wants to play second fiddle to a QB making a Heisman push let alone knowing he is splitting reps with another Maxwell and Doak Walker preseason watch list candidate?

I get your point now and for that I have no answer maybe they are making the hardest push for him.
07-31-2012, 11:10 AM
psusnoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by oweb26

I get your point now and for that I have no answer maybe they are making the hardest push for him.

New housing?? I kid I kid sorry MVP :D
07-31-2012, 11:39 AM
oweb26

Quote:

Originally Posted by psusnoop

New housing?? I kid I kid sorry MVP :D

Getting Moms a new house maybe? Who knows? :D
07-31-2012, 11:47 AM
psuexv

One thing I will disagree with you on Oweb is that fact that they aren't going to be any good this year. 21 of 22 starters have decided to stay and in total I think it's in the upwards of 65+ of the roster is staying. Redd being the obvious starter who is up in the air. So the talent is still here to have a good season. Noway they go 4-7. With Redd they could easily get 9 wins. If he returns and puts up 1200 yards like he did last year(and that was with a nonexistent passing game, which should be improved this year) he's going late 1st round high 2nd.

I'm with Snoop though and have stated it. I don't begrudge him from transffering, but why not go to a national contender where you can be the #1. I know Bama has Lacy, but if Redd went to Bama and that Oline, he wins the Heisman.
07-31-2012, 12:15 PM
steelerfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by psuexv

One thing I will disagree with you on Oweb is that fact that they aren't going to be any good this year. 21 of 22 starters have decided to stay and in total I think it's in the upwards of 65+ of the roster is staying. Redd being the obvious starter who is up in the air. So the talent is still here to have a good season. Noway they go 4-7. With Redd they could easily get 9 wins. If he returns and puts up 1200 yards like he did last year(and that was with a nonexistent passing game, which should be improved this year) he's going late 1st round high 2nd.

I'm with Snoop though and have stated it. I don't begrudge him from transffering, but why not go to a national contender where you can be the #1. I know Bama has Lacy, but if Redd went to Bama and that Oline, he wins the Heisman.

:+1:

All of it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
07-31-2012, 01:54 PM
oweb26

Quote:

Originally Posted by psuexv

One thing I will disagree with you on Oweb is that fact that they aren't going to be any good this year. 21 of 22 starters have decided to stay and in total I think it's in the upwards of 65+ of the roster is staying. Redd being the obvious starter who is up in the air. So the talent is still here to have a good season. Noway they go 4-7. With Redd they could easily get 9 wins. If he returns and puts up 1200 yards like he did last year(and that was with a nonexistent passing game, which should be improved this year) he's going late 1st round high 2nd.

I'm with Snoop though and have stated it. I don't begrudge him from transffering, but why not go to a national contender where you can be the #1. I know Bama has Lacy, but if Redd went to Bama and that Oline, he wins the Heisman.

New coaches, possibly new system, school (football) scandal I doubt they will be that good, they were only what 9-4? last year at best I am giving them a .500 season.

I will also say I haven't looked at their schedule I just haven't seen too many teams come out and have great years after something like this, so in other words I am basing this not off of much just a gut feeling.
07-31-2012, 03:02 PM
Tarhead10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes

Not even the same. SMU didn't have a program in 1987 and cancelled the 1988 season. There wasn't a football team and there weren't football players. There is still a team and still players at Penn State. Just more media fucktards jumping on the bash Penn State hatewagon. They can all go fuck themselves. I didn't even get a damn about Penn State when all this started, but the never ending bashing, hate and attacks have gotten so fucking old, I'm take Penn State's side from now on. Fuck the media.

:nod:.... Couldnt have said it better, nice man...
07-31-2012, 08:29 PM
baseballplyrmvp

Quote:

Originally Posted by psusnoop

Again, I'm not implying him staying at PSU I'm saying why go to USC and be a backup or split time when he is a starting HB. For pete's sake go to Bama, Miami, Stanford, Florida, FSU, and the list goes on and on where he can play for a very competitive team and be the starting HB. Name me a RB that wants to play second fiddle to a QB making a Heisman push let alone knowing he is splitting reps with another Maxwell and Doak Walker preseason watch list candidate?

mcneil may be listed as the starter, but redd will get his share of carries.....at least 100 barring injury. he'll have 4 returning starters on the o-line to run behind and he wont get the box stacked against him with woods and lee on the field. he should get at least a 5 yard/carry average. football wise, he's better off at USC than at penn state, as he wont have the pressure on him of being the offense.

i dont know he chose USC. maybe he just wanted to get away from it all and play for a team with a great chance at a national championship. maybe he's still close with one of the backup qbs, max wittek. maybe it was USC who offered the best combo of football, academics and opportunity for the future (outside of football). idk. he definitely formed a bond with the USC players though, as they all had the same thoughts as what Redd had this past week.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page