Does anyone know how the scouting has changed? I'm hoping it's actually useful this year. We need to be able to scout more people and we need basic combine numbers.
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Does anyone know how the scouting has changed? I'm hoping it's actually useful this year. We need to be able to scout more people and we need basic combine numbers.
That's what I was thinking when watching Madden videos. I don't notice anything really different.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymo76
Shopmaster confirmed for me that the Physics will effect everything. Running, cutting, route running, movement, etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Rudy
I believe that is for the Connected Careers feature or whatever, not Online games.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymo76
I could careless about CC, Offline or any of that other stuff. Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay is my only concern.
I've seen several responses regarding custom playbooks. I've seen some say they were removed altogether and others say you just can't use them online. Either way it's lame. Since I used a custom playbook on all of NCAA12, it would be hard to go back. That's one thing that may prevent me from jumping into Madden this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by skipwondah33
I don't think it's doing much with running and cutting. There were quite a few complaints at E3 about zig-zag running which is still pretty apparent when watching the videos. I'm just hoping that one day when I watch a video of a broadcast cam on Madden I feel it looks like feel football. We're not there yet. The Madden devs did say they would look into tuning this area after E3.Quote:
Originally Posted by skipwondah33
Off topic but when I watch a highlight video of the Show it looks and feels real. It's because the animations and player movement are great. NCAA isn't close and Madden still isn't there either. Here is a 16 inning game I won against the Cubs. It was a great win. Rookie Brett Pill hit for the cycle, got thrown out at home in the 14th and had an amazing finish at the plate in 16.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G2NCFhLut4&feature=plcp
I think Madden is getting better with their cut scenes and presentation. But the lack of foot planting combined with zig zag running really hurts the look and feel imo. I think the Seattle vs. SF video looks great. A lot of great presentation elements with the lineups, sidelines, etc. But when you watch the Ginn return at 8:20 you can see the lack of foot planting when you bounce back and forth and it just isn't right. I don't like how the replay system is switching between camera angles for 3 separate looks. NCAA did that two years ago and I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. The spline replay system isn't for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvAmWM-kbWQ&feature=relmfu
More zig-zag running at 2:00 and 2:40. This lack of foot planting and penalty for change of direction affects everything and I want to see this better. It's just not smooth and I find it hurts my user defense more than anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOh0RQylM6E&feature=player_embedded#!
No custom playbooks, no draft classes, no editing of players, RTP isn't overwhelmingly noticeable but very subtle for Madden 13. I'm beginning to think about cancelling my pre-order. I'll just use the money I would have spent on Madden on buying both NHL 13 and FIFA 13.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymo76
Sheesh. That doesn't sound good.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
It's amazing how perspectives change when all the info comes out. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by souljahbill
Many people were cancelling their pre-orders for NCAA or thinking about it because NCAA didn't have RTP, now we find out RTP is going to be very subtle and not as in your face as we thought, as well as the claims it only affects tackling and nothing else and other claims that it affects multiple things but very subtly, etc.
Now we're finding all these major negatives about Madden and it's new connected careers mode, along with other aspects of the game (playbooks), and I'm sure I'm not the only one now considering cancelling my Madden pre-order.
I'm still definitely getting it. Likely not getting NCAA though
I've used one my entire time playing Madden, actually have two that I've created for different teams I play with. That would stuck but after not having them for so long wouldn't be a deal breaker. Soon as I get the game I play with every team's playbook to find the way I'll use anyway. It will really hurt on D as I had every 3-4 formation in my book as well as some others the Steelers stock Def Book doesn't have.Quote:
Originally Posted by gschwendt
its been the case year after year. Why are they unable to add and keep stuff?
Why do they have to keep shifting in and out and trading ?
I think people are downplaying RTP a little too much. Steve Noah of OS said it was big.
"Well, I'm here to tell you the infinity engine is indeed legit. It's downright unbelievable actually. Call it a "fresh coat of paint on the same old game" if you want to but I love it.
I played a couple of games last night with some various members of the media and came away very impressed. Sure it's not perfect, you will see limbs getting bent in painful directions occasionally, even see a body slide or rotate a little awkwardly, but all in all, the new Infinity Engine the Madden team has implemented is unbelievable.
I must have seen at least 60 different animations in what little time I had to play with Madden last night, but every one of them made me smile."
Jon Robinson of ESPN gave Madden 13 best sports game of E3.
"Jon Robinson: “Madden NFL 13.” The new physics engine got gamers reacting like I haven’t seen since the invention of the Hit Stick. People were jumping up and down after sending receivers helicoptering through the air, and the way the runners fight for every yard now that there are no longer pre-determined tackles makes a world of difference."
I'm not going to defend cutting options out of the game like importing draft classes, edits, etc. I hate it when we take steps backwards. But I do think franchise mode will be significantly better than last year. Last year Madden's franchise just wasn't good enough. No question NCAA's dynasty kills it and they took another step forward with scouting. I am very much in favour of getting rid of the e-bay style bidding and think the new free agency will be better. Players now come to you during the season about re-signing. There are story lines tied to draft picks and some off the field stuff apparently. I don't think Madden's franchise will ever be as good as NCAA dynasty but I do think it will be better this year and not worse even with the cuts of some features (at least for me).
A Q & A: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-answered.html
Next generation will hit before then, so ......... longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ram29jackson
Based on what I have seen thus far I really don't want NCAA 14 to have connected careers. I am not willing to lose any stuff we have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
Amen. I could deal with no draft classes because I haven't bought Madden new or used in the fall since Madden 09. Madden 10 and 11 I both bought in June for long enough to get achievements and then sell back off on eBay, and I haven't bought Madden 12 at all yet because eBay prices are still too high for me. So draft classes aren't really a deal breaker for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymo76
But being unable to edit players (sometimes I end up required to fix equipment on a random player or two that stands out in a game, fix some numbers, or in the case of EA fucked up (from time to time) progression system, I have to go and manually edit various players around the nation to either tone them down from super-progression or give a boost because they didn't get enough progression to meet the numbers they put up on the field) or being able to use a custom playbook, which I have used EXCLUSIVELY from day one in NCAA 12, hell no, those are dealbreakers right there.
After finally getting custom playbooks, no way in hell will I support anything that would potentially require the removal of custom playbooks (even if just for a year or two) or player editing. It's call keep the damn thing out of the game and work on it another year and figure out how to keep and get player editing and custom playbooks to work with this new system.
Smooth,
When I picked up Madden last year (from season pass) I played one play now game as my Raiders versus the Skins. Then for the rest of the night/morning I worked on two custom playbooks and edited my players as well as some of the other players in the league. I didn't get my first dynasty game in until late the next day. Taking customization away, even if it's only for one year is a big step backwards.
Now I will get Madden 13 this year via season pass. However, the game will have to play AMAZING in order to convince me to purchase. I'm sure it's not possible but if the developers can somehow patch in FULL EDITING (ala Madden 12) then I will get this game. Until I hear that... probably not.
Madden was only in alpha at E3. Still plenty of time to tune. This article on Kotaku was said by EA's Justin Dewiel to be a good article.
http://kotaku.com/5916961/madden-13-...ywalk-at-times
OS Preview on Connected Careers: http://www.operationsports.com/previ...ected-careers/
I think gamers, on the whole, have a complete misconception of what "real-time physics" means for a game. Games with "physics engines" are still animation-driven, and just as animation-driven as non-physics based games (like NCAA or previous versions of Madden). The only difference is now some (and maybe all, but not necessarily all) of the animations are procedurally derived rather than using canned motion capture. So implementing physics is not like turning on a light switch. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they put full physics on for the tackling but still are using canned animations for other aspects of the game, like blocking or catching. I don't know either of those to be true, I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
That article was interesting but it didn't address any concerns or omissions from CC. I am still trying to find out if the ability to play other games during the week has also been removed (like FIFA and NHL). I get the feeling that is no longer an option.
If memory serves, one article (talking about GM Connected, I believe, not Connected Careers) said that the ability to play all the games during the week was still in "offline" mode, but not "online". Though the line has blurred about what that distinction really means.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymo76
EA thought they were simplifying things by putting everything under one option but they have just confused everyone. They should have separate blogs on each type. I only want to hear about offline franchise. Stop telling me it's gone and produce a blog that only talks about this area and nothing else. I'm still confused about offline franchise.
Not liking a couple things in this Madden video.
At 1:08 zig zag running by the cpu is very apparent. I like how the cpu is trying to run to daylight but it looks bad. Also at 2:37 Matt Moore scrambles up in the pocket and while at the 3 yard line and an easy TD staring him in the face he decides to throw into coverage and get a lucky TD. Should have just walked in for the easy score.
A good thing I saw was h-back Charles Clay running over a DB at 5:08. He doesn't even try to make a move, just runs at the defender and runs him over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTVUBiWRb3I&feature=player_embedded
Wow! That zig zag running at 1:08 is horendous. Based on that alone it seems clear that height, weight, and momentum mean nothing.
What speed is the game being played on? It's hyper-fast.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree. This is why I will partially agree with those who say that RTP is being overblown because I'm only seeing it on hits and not anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymo76
Souljahbill - don't know what setting this is on but I'm assuming Normal. I've played on Slow the last couple years because the animations don't look as bad and the running game opens up a little more slowly.
Also note that the Moore play at 2:37 may possibly be beyond the LOS as well.
As for Bush zig zag running that is nothing how Bush runs in real life. That video (and there are many more of moves like that in EA football this gen) shows how there is no foot planting. In real football most backs plant that foot and make that hard one cut move upfield. If they try to reverse direction they pay for it by slowing down and they don't get back up to speed right away. I have always felt the PS2 did this a lot better. And I do feel we pay the price for this on pass defense more than anything as offensive players just zig zag past us or cut with no loss of speed to get open.
Watch this short Bush highlight clip in the real 2011 NFL. Look at the plays at 0:35 and 2:00. There you see foot planting when making a cut. You see slow down. Honestly, I'd love to see just one real video of any NFL RB zig zagging without losing any momentum and planting their feet like we see in that Madden video (which is also in NCAA).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdpCup1p_v4
1) The RTP isn't doing anything for me as of now. It's so subtle that it's unnoticeable to me and I'd rather have custom playbooks then fancy hits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy
2) I play on slow as well with a 0 speed threshold. The NCAA '13 demo is fast but the Madden videos look like its being played in fast forward.
3) Moore couldn't have been past the LOS, otherwise, he couldn't make that pass. Even Dan Marino would have run those easy 3 yards. There wasn't a body within 10 yds.
I believe RTP is going to be one of those things you will have to play to "feel". I think the simple fact that you cannot just spam hitstick because they will get ran over is huge. It is a step in size mattering throughout the game and I am all for that. Also, I find it funny that people give NCAA the benefit of the doubt about "only being alpha" and "Madden having 7 weeks more time", but now everyone acts like this is the final build. It has been stated that these videos are from Alpha build so I gave NCAA the benefit of the doubt so I will give Madden the same luxury.
The fact that RTP is in the game doesn't mean anything for open-field running, unless they've programmed it to matter. Based on that vid, there's no way momentum is being factored in cuts.
What? I assume you're making some reference to NCAA being "alpha" in earlier videos ... I just don't remember that coming up in conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryby6969
Madden having 7 more weeks was only in reference to why (in my opinion) RTP is in one and not the other. I don't remember anyone using it to defend NCAA's quality at any certain point.
And it is in NCAA? It's not like FIFA or NHL had physics completely the first year they implemented it. I will take it on collisions for the reason I mentioned. It will be nice knowing that I do not have to worry as much about people trying to hitstick with every guy on the field and it working like they are Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis no matter their size. It is not like it cannot be tweaked before release either. I don't think it will be changed in a major fashion before release, but it can be tweaked.
Nope. I'm only mentioning it because I think people hear "RTP" and assume "physics now controls everything". Not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryby6969
Absolutely true.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryby6969
I am saying this is an alpha build and people act like this is the final product. If we are willing to give NCAA the benefit of the doubt, then why not Madden? I just think people need to wait and play it before they judge how big an impact it will have on the game. Even if it is just in collisions, that is a major upgrade to keeping the game fresh that should not be overlooked IMO. And the 7 weeks thing is the fact that videos now for Madden are like videos of NCAA in April. How much do you think NCAA changed between April and the final product?
A ton. I don't have to think that, I just have to think back to last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryby6969
I just couldn't remember people bringing up NCAA being alpha at any point. You made it sound like it was being constantly used to defend NCAA (or, at least, that's what I read :D). I just don't recall. :dunno: No big deal.
We both know that is marketing BS. It would not sound the same if they said "physics in collisions only". ;)Quote:
I'm only mentioning it because I think people hear "RTP" and assume "physics now controls everything". Not the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
I just mean in videos we see, we just say it is an early build and is in alpha. Hell, it was even somewhat mentioned about the demo being probably a build a month old. Did not mean to make it "sound" like that.
I can give Madden the benefit of the doubt on RTP. What I am not giving them the benefit of the doubt on is custom playbooks, player editing, etc, because it's already been confirmed none of that is in the game. Player editing is huge and that we cannot edit players ratings, edit numbers, edit equipment, nothing this year, regardless of how great this new CCM mode may be, there is no "benefit of the doubt" from me on that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryby6969
Same with custom playbooks being taken out. In NCAA last year, I created a custom playbook on day one and used my custom playbooks every single game I have played on 12. Before last year, I admit, I never cared for custom playbooks and was in the group of "oh well, there's other things that need worked on", but after having them and using them, there is no way in hell that I'm going back to "pick a team and whatever they have, that's what you get". That'd be like us getting to NCAA 14 and them saying "well, we had to take out custom playbooks because of a new mode we put in, enjoy sitting there trying to find that "perfect playbook" that you want but no team has."
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on RTP, even though it really is not all that big of a deal for me. As it is now, it may be great on tackles and whatnot, but that's not a big deal to me. When they get RTP in Madden to the same level as NHL and FIFA currently are, alright, I'm on board with Madden. But taking out custom playbooks and player editing, fuck that, Madden 13 no longer has even a tiny bit of interest for me. I was looking forward to Madden 13 because I've been ready to get back into NFL gaming for a couple years now, but losing all that for some combined online/offline franchise/Super Star mode with RPG-style storylines and Twitter, fuck that. Maybe Madden 14 will finally be the chance I get to get back into Madden if they put player editing and custom playbooks back in next year.
See, for me you could not use CPB in Online Franchise last year anyway so it made no difference to me. I am also not an equipment guy so do not really care about editing my players. Would I like it in, sure. But for me as long as the gameplay is getting closer to what it needs to be then I am all for certain things taking a step back if it means better gameplay. Now if next year these things do not make it back in, then yeah it will be an issue.
Custom playbooks was always my biggest wish in the wishlist tournaments. Moreso then Coaching Carousel even so losing it after having it would be a dealbreaker for me. If they have to remove custom playbooks to get RTP into NCAA '14, I'm skipping '14 unless Southern Miss is the best team in the game.
Alright, well we at least can see now why we disagree on stuff for this year. For me, NCAA 12 was my first and only time playing in an Online Dynasty, and while it had it's moments, there were many frustrations that caused me to bow out after the first season, and I went back to my offline dynasty. I, for the most part, have never cared for online dynasty, online franchise, etc. The ONLY exceptions have been Online Association in NBA 2K12 with cdj, JB and a couple others (though that only lasted for a couple weeks), teaming up with Natcret and whoever else was on 360 on Tiger Woods for the TGA here on the forums, and Online Team Play (6 on 6) in NHL 11, which was basically just a giant Play Now game just with 6 humans on each team controlling each player on the ice. Other than that, I couldn't give any less of a damn about online franchise, online dynasty, online this, online that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryby6969
So for you, alright, I can see and understand how losing custom playbooks and losing player editing isn't a big deal, whereas for me, who is almost entirely an offline/single-player guy when it comes to sports, losing player editing capabilities and custom playbooks is a complete deal-breaker. Like I said, I WANT to get back into Madden. I never bought Madden 12, I bought Madden 11 on eBay for cheap, owned it for 3 days, just long enough to get the achievements and quick 1000 gamerscore, before selling it right back off on eBay. Madden 09 and Madden 10 were the only Madden games on the current generation of consoles that I owned for a month or longer.
As someone who bought both NCAA and Madden EVERY year back on Xbox and PS2, this is sad and depressing as I would love to get back in NFL gaming and have been bit over and over for the past 3-6 months at the desire to get Madden so I can fire up an NFL franchise. So I desperately and badly want to get back into the Madden series, but this one step forward, two steps back, or two steps forward, one step back stuff just kills me. Next year, if Madden 14 has RTP fully integrated into the entire game, or at least 50% of the game, custom playbooks are back, roster editing is back, and there have been additional improvements to Connected Careers, etc, I am fully on-board and will pre-order it and buy it. I already pre-ordered Madden last week after initially hearing about RTP and CCM. But now that details are coming out about stuff removed, stuff left out, etc., I'm no longer excited about Madden 13 and just don't have that desire to buy it anymore.