Once again in regards to grass, bands and cannons...a COMPLETELY separate set of developers, programmers, etc. do these from gameplay.....COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
Once again in regards to grass, bands and cannons...a COMPLETELY separate set of developers, programmers, etc. do these from gameplay.....COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
I hate Pac-Man. I've never heard of Turtles.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
This we know JB. But why couldn't those assets be used on something else with different developers, programmers, etc? I mean, they're still WAY far away in the presentation aspect from where they could be (there's no doubt about that) but spending those resources on little things to upgrade the presentation instead of pooling those resources towards a ginormous increase in presentation just doesn't make any sense to me. Why spend all that time on small things (grass, bands, cannons, etc) instead of taking all the time spent on those little things and upgrading the visual presentation for dynasty aspects (creating a more in depth offseason setup), or something else a bit more substantial?Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHuskers
Again, it just seems to me that their modus operandi is a bunch of little things that all add up to a bunch of nothing.
Nothing outside of the first blog post, which talked about HDR and the grass, has been officially announced, not even cannons. Well, except the highlighted new plays, I guess. There's still plenty of time for announcements.Quote:
Originally Posted by morsdraconis
I'm guessing you just didn't put three other words in front of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelerfan
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resou...Arcadegame.jpg
Actually, you didn't. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
I never played the arcade version of TMNT. I wasn't crazy about the NES version though.
Each game has a budget in the development cycle. So taking someone away from presentation and adding someone to gameplay a) really doesn't help things anyways and b) is more expensive. The gaming development world just doesn't work that way. If you take away everything else and focus on one area, that isn't going to give them anything to market. You, Mors and Beatn are the lowest common denominator when it comes to how they market and make the game profitable. If they market to the lowest common denominator, you end up developing a game like Backbreaker and only sell 60k copies. In order to get the things that we have wanted over the years, the game has to be profitable, in order for the game to be profitable, it has to be marketed to the widest spectrum of an audience.Quote:
Originally Posted by morsdraconis
Now you're making a completely different argument with the comparison with dynasty aspects instead of the argument of gameplay from before. The budget cost for an entire visual presentation over is going to be pretty high. So is the risk of breaking things. So making these minor adjustments into what is already a great presentation is probably the smartest way to go about working with your budget.
I know what they're suing for. It's stupid on their part and they have no chance of winning. I've said that numerous times. If they had any sense they would've used the angle I'm coming from, which probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere, either...but it at least makes more sense.
I don't completely buy that. The games on PS2 didn't have the issues that I listed earlier, so I don't think it's really that hard to program correctly. Like I said, I'm more or less sold on the fact that they are issues with the engine and outside of creating an entirely different engine(which they're obviously not going to do), they're not really sure how to take care of them. The AI is what needs the work, and as soon as they get that solved, they're on the road to having themselves a great game. Good AI is a benefit to casual, hardcore, and all players alike, so it should be near the top of their agenda as far as I'm concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHuskers
LOL developing on the PS3 is just a tad different.Quote:
Originally Posted by I OU a Beatn
Alright. Sure didn't seem like it, but alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by I OU a Beatn
It is, JB, but not substantially. It doesn't explain everything on his list.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHuskers
i'll take 50 bucks....
Normally, I'd buy that. However, it's also being developed on 360, too, which is much similar to the PS2...and the issues still exist there. Besides, EA is a huge development/publishing team. One of the biggest in the world. They have access to the best in the industry. This isn't a one year problem. This has been a constant problem(for some of the issues) for going on 6 years now. Besides, most of the issues I have a problem with is with the AI, which shouldn't be all that different than what was present on the PS2 versions. Between '07-'11 on PS3 and 360, they have YET to get run blocking from shotgun correctly programmed. They have YET to get the pass rush/blitzes to where they should be. '08 was way too fast and easy to get pressure. '09 there was none at all. '10 there was slightly more than none. '11 there was just slightly more than '10 with blitzes rarely ever getting home and the only hope of pressure is to rush the DEs to the far outside.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHuskers
Just like the zone coverage. They were better in '09 and '10 than they were in '11. That's not an issue with developing on hardware, that's an issue with their programming. It's even been narrowed down to a cause. When the ball is snapped from one of the hashes, the defense does not react to the proper zones. That's 100% a programming error with the AI. Another issue that has been going on this entire generation is the over effectiveness of outside runs. '08 started that trend. EVERYONE ran sweeps, off tackle, counters, and stretches to the outside because it was unstoppable. I remember instead of people throwing a Hail Mary at the end of a half/game, they'd run a freakin' toss play and actually succeed. That was still an issue in '09 and '10, although a lot less of one, and then it because a bigger problem in '11 because the defense doesn't react correctly to an outside run as they ALWAYS get sucked into the LOS or the pulling lineman. Every time.
I have no doubt these issues can be fixed, but my only lingering question is will they and how long will it take?
You said you want as real as possible, and (save for SS) all of those things add to a more realistic game. So that logic that youll never use or dont care about it is flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by morsdraconis
You ARE part of the main target audience! But when you say I want EA to hear me, I have all the fixes, and then go off about how stupid the game plays while they are posting graphic improvements you lose credibility. (not necessarily you specifically mors, I am talking generally speaking).
Go read the article about why line play will never be realistic in football games again. Apparently on BB the line play was the best, most realistic line play to date, and yet did you get it??? Do you play it??? Would you play it if it had ncaa team branding on the helmets??? Its about more than realistic gameplay. Its about the entire experience. Its ALL about the small stuff! And the big stuff too. Wait till gameplay stuff comes out to bash gameplay if it happens that its not what you wanted. Thats ok. Bashing gp while graphics are being talked about (and good ones at that), is just simple minded babble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayrah
football games were made for people who like football. Better blocking will always beat better grass as a choice...quite frankly, I still want 1970s astroturf as a choice.
You don't need a choice for astroturf, thats what we have! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ram29jackson
The point is that blocking WAS improved last year, and I am willing to bet it will be improved again this year, if only by the upgraded animations and movement through the engine making it better. Regardless, we wont know till gameplay talk comes out.
EA COULD wait until June to start releasing info and start with gameplay so that everyone who wants gameplay can get that info first, and not complain about the small additions that make the game more than just stick figures on a blue screen playing "real" football. But instead we get a glimpse of the game in March and April, before they are even close to done with gameplay improvements. They are still working! They arent done with the game and just leaking info bit by bit. They arent done improving blocking, or coverage or any of it.... Why would they tell us about unfinished improvements???? We'd still be bashing them!!!!
Also, if you are a real fan of ANY sport, and football especially, then you are a fan of the small stuff. All the little stuff that makes football what it is. Interactive Pylons, interactive Grass, splashing water, skid marks in the snow, real looking jerseys, realistic lighting, etc, are all part of what makes football special, without that stuff, I don't care how good the gameplay is, it's going to take away from the atmosphere of football saturdays.
I agree with 98% of what Jayrah said. Well said, man. :nod:
The small stuff is great...IF the core game play(which I'm confident we can all agree is the most important part) is up to standards. Like I said earlier, the really annoying thing is that they're just a few fixes away from having a really awesome game(and have been since '09), but they just can't seem to get those particular 4 or 5 issues ironed out.
A small thing that has always bugged me is the lack of atmosphere. For example, whenever I'm the home team and I'm on a breakaway touchdown run, I expect the crowd to get louder. I just don't talk about it because I do want to see the core game play fixed first.
Well, maybe I'm being an optimist, but so far there's no indication on whether or not the core gameplay fixes that we still need (and I agree with you that they're needed) have been made. They've said nothing about gameplay. Some people have taken that to mean that this is the 'fluff' year. I think those people are just jumping overboard at the first sign of water. They've only made one announcement so far (ignoring the 25 plays), and cannons wasn't even it.Quote:
Originally Posted by I OU a Beatn
I guess what I'm saying is that people (not looking at you, I_OU, you just happened to say something similar) need to stop treating cannons as an announced feature and more as community involvement for accuracy.
:nod: :nod: :nod: EXACTLYQuote:
Originally Posted by jeffhcross
But it's fodder for those who love to bitch, to bitch.