As am I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwizzy
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As am I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwizzy
This is a very good point and I can buy into that. I guess I just get worked up as I have from the beginning that there are so many other factors and so many possible other people involved and all anyone can talk about is the football program and punishing the football program and Joe Paterno, Joe Paterno, Joe Paterno.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwizzy
I can probably count on my hand the amount of times the Second Mile has been mentioned and like I said that's where he came in contact with these kids.
There have obviously been people with problems with the Freeh report and some assumptions he made and what not. I do also find this interesting that Spanier was investigated when this all happened as he has high level government clearance and they did a 4 month investigation on him and I'm assuming didn't really find anything as the re-affirmed his security clearance.
http://www.wgal.com/news/susquehanna...z/-/index.html
Quote:
The attorneys for Graham Spanier released the following statement on behalf of their client on July 16, several days after the release of the Freeh report:
"The Freeh report ignored many important facts, including the conclusions of a far more independent and thorough investigation of Dr. Graham Spanier conducted simultaneously by federal officials responsible for our national security.
Dr. Spanier has for some time held a top secret security clearance in connection with his work with the federal government. This clearance required a re-review when the Sandusky matter surfaced in November. Federal investigators then conducted a four-month investigation of their own in which they interviewed many of the same individuals the Freeh Group interviewed and other relevant individuals Freeh did not interview. At the conclusion of the investigation the government reaffirmed Dr. Spanier’s clearance.
Although Dr. Spanier told Mr. Freeh directly about the federal security investigation and its result, there is no mention of it anywhere in the Freeh report.
The Freeh report is not an independent judicial evaluation. Mr. Freeh, no longer a judge, runs a company that was retained by the Board of Trustees of the University. His report contained numerous inaccuracies and reached conclusions that are not supported by the data. Meanwhile, Mr. Freeh unfairly offered up Dr. Spanier and others to those insisting upon a finding of culpability at the highest level of the University. Mr. Freeh’s conclusions are not judicial or law enforcement pronouncements.
Dr. Spanier looks forward to the opportunity in the future to set the record straight and as we have previously said, all of our thoughts and prayers remain with the young people who are at the center of this terrible ordeal.
Actually forgot to add this to the thing about the governor
Not only this point above, but after he was appointed governor he has a seat of the PSU BOT, and never said a word to the board about the investigation or anything. And Corbett is definitely not a fan of Paterno or the football program. It's well known that him and Paterno did not like each other because Joe didn't back him for his election as governor.Quote:
How about the fact that the current governor was the Pa Attorney General when the investigation got started and headed it up but still allowed Jerry to be around kids with the Second Mile.
Interesting.....Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
I along the lines of initial thinking of what someone posted earlier. Penn State hired a firm to do an investigation to prove it had means to fire Paterno...the rest was just I guess "extra" incentive.
Guess there will be different viewpoints depeding on which glasses you are looking from sort of speak.
Well I guess the distinction with the Chess coach thing is that no one would consider not reporting a chess coach for doing this. They did however for a football coach because of how important it was to protect the University & football program. Esentially that is the core reason for the NCAA needing to do something IMO. If people feel that football is that important or intimidating or whatever, then if you show that these people essentially did more harm to the football program by hiding the truth then maybe you encourage people in similar situations to think about that.
Also, I guess the only reason my comments have been limited to the football program & Paterno is that those are the things that I feel are most debated here. I absolutely agree, and I don't think there's any debate, that anyone and everyone (foundations, investigating bodies, administrations, etc...) who had a hand in this needs to be investigated & if found at fault tarred & feathered.
Deleted, till I think about things longer :)
Death Penalty= these current student athletes losing scholarships for crimes committed by 4-5 individuals. Society is willing to accept this as OK and I can't fathom a situation where that should be acceptable. These kids did not do anything wrong.
Some type of something is fine(donating proceeds to charities, schollies, bowl ban, ect.....) for punishment but any argument that has the words death penalty involved in it I'll debate forever.
http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/1...m-success.html
UNIVERSITY PARK — Nearly 400 Penn State student- athletes earned a grade-point average of 3.0 or higher during the spring semester.
During the past semester, 391 student-athletes earned a GPA of 3.0 or above, which accounts for 58 percent of Penn State’s student-athletes enrolled during the spring semester. Of that number, 172 earned Dean’s List honors during the spring by posting a GPA of 3.50 or higher. The efforts resulted in a combined average GPA of 3.07 during the spring for all of Penn State’s 29 varsity sports.
Penn State also produced 108 student-athletes from 15 spring and at-large sports who earned Academic All- Big Ten honors (3.0 GPA or higher), giving the Nittany Lions 240 academic all-conference honorees in 2011-12.
Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/1...#storylink=cpy
I agree with you, death penalty is way off base. Like I've said, they need to get creative here. Some kind of revenue donation is about perfect IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by psusnoop
Completely agree and it's going to be quite the task for the NCAA and Mark Emmert to really figure things out. Just hope that they take their time and don't rush/snap decisions that need to be thought out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwizzy
Here's a really solid take on the whole deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by psusnoop
http://www.csnbayarea.com/07/13/12/E...02&feedID=6858
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwizzy
The only part of that I'm not completely positive on is thisQuote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
I'm not completely against it and I'm not completely sure how a non-profit would work but the football team's revenue basically supports all other sports at PSU. That and I think that they are probably already a non-profit.Quote:
One way, though not the only one, would be to make the football program a non-profit entity, with all money generated from this most lucrative of operations going to a fund for the victims, or for the ongoing fight against violence against children.
While that is technically true (that it's already a non-prof.) everyone knows that is really just a way to avoid the taxes. These Athletic departments constantly defend the money spent on athletics by saying that the Athletic Department is completely self-funding and that's the point. If you make the University foot the bill for all of this, then the athletic department skates completely free and clear when they had just as big a role if not the biggest role in all of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by psuexv
Yes the revenue produced by the football program does support the rest of the teams but IMO that is the part where honest and decent people are going to bear some of the burden for others' mistakes. These teams, including the football team, are going to have to cut back some on non-essential expendetures. Maybe recruiting budget, etc... need to be downsized to help bear the burden. IMO if you go this route, & it's probably the most fair way to go, then everyone in that Athletic dept. is going to have to do more with less in order for the athletic dept. to pay it's share in all of this.
Not True -Quote:
Originally Posted by psusnoop
#1 Penn State could do the "right thing" and honor the scholarships of their student athletes even though they no longer can play NCAA football. NOTHING the NCAA would do would prohibit the university from honoring its promise to its students.
#2 Assuming arguendo that Penn State would refuse to allow the students to stay at the university on scholarship, I would imagine the NCAA would grant waiver requests and allow immediate transfers (with no sit out required) for any/all players on scholarship to transfer to any school of their choice where they could continue to play NCAA football on scholarship.
While it might be "inconvenient" no Player will be "punished" by the NCAA for the actions of the higher ups at Penn State.
Also not true, while in our eyes it is only an inconvenience in theirs it could resemble a punishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
"We've already started to impose sanctions in the sense that we took away $2.6 million of athletic department funds," Erickson said. "Surely we'll have to do more, but we're already on that road."Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwizzy
Erickson is the current President of PSU (was VP while Spanier was here).
Things are already rolling and get changed, revised we just need to be patient and let this settle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psusnoop
So... your admitting it wouldn't be a punishment but would "resemble" one? It's a sad day where many want to argue that we cannot punish a wrong doer (Penn State University) because it would "resemble a punishment" to "innocent" players/employees of that institution.
Look, life sometimes sucks but you do what you can with the hand you are dealt. Obviously there is no evidence that any of the current players knew about what was going on. NOONE is looking to punish the players but when you play for an institution that allows a coach to rape boys the institution MUST be punished.
Go to the real world: If my (or anyone out there in the private sector) bosses/business commit some heinous crime and get thrown in jail guess what I'm out of a job and I've gotta go out and try to find one with no help from an institution like the NCAA to make 100% sure I get the exact same deal I have now.
Your argument suggests that my bosses/firm should not be punished because it would harm innocent employees. That simply cannot be public policy as it would effectively act as a 100% shield and allow higher ups in corporations to do whatever they want regardless of the law.
The problem I have with this like I've said before is many like to blame the football program, or Joe. For pete's sake there is a plan flying over my head every day while I work saying "take the statue down or we will". Who in the hell cares about a statue right now. Why is someone or a group wasting money on something like that. If you feel so strongly about making a difference donate the money (and probably a good chunk to fly a plane around for 3 hours a day) to a charity and make a damn difference in society. Quit pounding your chests about a damn statue that in due time will be taken care of anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
This problem is far more involved then the damn football program and what sanctions should be handed down. No one is asking questions to seek factual information on HOW this happened. What happened in 1998 that the Police, Children Youth Services, and District Attorney decided against filing charges on Jerry? Why did it take former Attorney General for Pennsylvania Tom Corbett (now Governor) so long to conduct an investigation? Surely he didn't mind taking money from the very same organization that gave Jerry access to these kids? There is no out cry from the outside to look at anything more then Joe and the damn football team and demand sanctions. I'm so tired of people being so short sided that they don't want to know the WHOLE truth.
How about our Board of Trustee's giving Louis Freeh's approval to do an investigation in which we all have been made aware of. Certainly there are questions surrounding that as well, why was the investigation done by those with ties to PSU? This should have been done by an independent firm not by a group with ties to PSU and the Second Mile.
There are still so many questions yet all we hear or read about is Joe, or Football and sanctions. I want to know just what the hell happened and make sure those that did wrong are punished and corrective actions (which are already being adopted or are currently in place) are done to prevent such a horrific act of ever happening again.
But is Penn State an evil doer or 4-5 people? The people in the wrong are either getting their come-up-ins or will soon enough. There's no need to slaughter an entire heard of cattle because a few are really sick. Because the president of Bank of America is out to swindle you doesn't mean the local teller is out to get you. Get the people, not the institution.Quote:
Originally Posted by CLW
Note: I just argued against a lawyer. My argument is about to get dissected and spat back at me. :D