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Yeah, this is great news for Penn State. Y'all might finish in third place now instead of fourth place. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by steelerfan
Though with Nebraska coming in this season, you might end up stuck back in fourth place again regardless. :P
Well, the ramifications of all of this are not going to cover only one year. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
Hell, if this goes as horribly as I'd like, even Navy may end up more relevant than tOSU in the years to come. Though that is an EXTREME scenario. :P
:smh:Quote:
Originally Posted by steelerfan
This >>> :Nebraska: :))
Edit:
:nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
Cowherd just made a good point. Pryor can only enter the supplemental NFL draft (if there will still be one after the new CBA).....plus he figures to get drafted and make that draft contract money, so he can't really go anywhere.
Haha!
The NU team that couldn't beat 5-7 UT? :D
:easy:
:nod: :D
gimme a Pepsi Perfect please!
http://www.ketzer.com/backtothefutur...si_perfect.jpg
Co-signed by:Quote:
Originally Posted by steelerfan
:Illinois::Indiana::Iowa::Minnesota::Michigan_Stat e::Michigan::Nebraska::Northwestern::Purdue::Wisco nsin::Big_Ten::NCAA:
Actually, I think the season outlook for Ohio State just got better. One less distraction, plus less confusion about who is actually the head coach. No chance of having Coach Tressel be the coach Monday - Friday, with Coach Fickell leading the team on Saturday.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
This. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by CLW
You think this is BIG news? :D it was ALL Cowherd talked about, we're up to 3 pages on this bad boy on a holiday.....wow what a day.
Only to have them end up ineligible for the postseason. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
Sorry, Jeff, the glass is half-empty. :nod:
http://bucultureshock.com/wp-content...mpty-glass.jpg
Fixed. (this time for truth and not joke :D)Quote:
Originally Posted by steelerfan
Is it too late to get the sleeveless windsuit top into NCAA 12?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
First time since 1929 that BOTH Michigan and Ohio State start the season with a new head coach. WOW!
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Excellent article re: Jim Tressel and how he somehow managed to be viewed as "clean" despite some of his biggest stars being scum:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...&sct=hp_t11_a2Quote:
Try for a moment to remove whatever school-colored glasses you might own and consider the following questions:
-- If Tim Tebow, Percy Harvin and Alex Smith had been found guilty of breaking NCAA rules, what would you think of former Utah and Florida coach Urban Meyer?
-- If Ricky Williams, Vince Young and Colt McCoy had all been penalized for running afoul of the NCAA, what would you think of Texas coach Mack Brown?
-- If college sports' governing body had forced LaRon Landry, Rolando McClain and Mark Ingram to miss games for their transgressions, what would you think of former LSU and current Alabama coach Nick Saban?
You probably didn't have to think too hard about the answer. If the three highest profile players of a big-time coach's career all got dinged by the NCAA, you would think that coach might be dirty. So why, after Maurice Clarett, Troy Smith and Terrelle Pryor all faced NCAA sanctions, did people still think Ohio State coach Jim Tressel was squeaky clean? Why, after Tressel admitted in March that he played ineligible players and lied to the NCAA about it, did people still rush to his defense, claiming him an otherwise perfect coach who made one little mistake?
Because Tressel, Ohio State and a compliant media -- yes, I'm just as guilty as the other two parties -- sold that narrative so well.
He was The Senator. The light in the darkness. The one who didn't have to stoop as low as his peers. Even Tressel's choice of signature garment screamed piety. A sweater vest says, "I'll have your daughter home by nine, sir." A sweater vest says, "I'll be in the first pew in church on Sunday." A sweater vest says, "I'll abide by my contract and the rules that govern my profession."
The Ohio State portion of Tressel's story came to an end Monday. Ohio State officials could argue that some of the transgressions described were beyond the coach's control, and they would be correct. But Ohio State has shifted the narrative in recent months. They want you to think this is all a Jim Tressel problem and not an Ohio State problem. A Jim Tressel problem means Ohio State needs a new coach. An Ohio State problem means brutal NCAA sanctions that could cripple the program for years.
Tressel was packaged and sold as a paragon of virtue in a college football universe teeming with schemers and bloodsuckers. As long as he beat Michigan and won the Big Ten, most people seemed more than happy to swallow that narrative. Does it make Tressel a bad person because he didn't live up to the impossibly lofty image created for him? Absolutely not. Tressel gives more to charity in a month than most will give in their lives. He has helped hundreds of players navigate the gap between childhood and adulthood. He has violated no state or federal laws.
Tressel did, however, make a poor choice of NCAA rules to break. An accomplished former coach once told me that the NCAA only considers two violations unforgivable: Getting caught buying a player and getting caught lying to the NCAA. Tressel is guilty of the second, and coaches who get caught lying to the NCAA rarely keep their jobs. Is Tressel the only coach who lied to the NCAA in the past year? Of course not. Nor was Alabama the only program to buy a player in the recruiting class of 2000. But guess what Tressel and the Alabama staff that bought Albert Means have in common? They got caught.
Former Buckeyes walk-on Chris Cicero tried to do his program a solid in April 2010 when he sent Tressel the e-mails about players trading memorabilia for cash and tattoos at the Fine Line Ink tattoo parlor. Those e-mails ultimately unraveled the carefully crafted narrative. Sad as it sounds, Cicero would have saved the Buckeyes a lot of grief had he loved his school a little less and forgotten to press "send."
Of all the tools a coach has at his disposal -- schematic brilliance, the ability to inspire loyalty, a knack for winning over the best recruits -- the most important is plausible deniability. Unsavory things must be taken care of in every high-profile program, but it's the job of low-level staffers to ensure none of the nastiness ever reaches the head coach's desk. A graduate assistant who hears about players taking discounts from a local business is supposed make it go away quietly and not leave a paper trail.
What infuriates Ohio State fans most is that other head coaches have sailed along with no personal punishment or a mere wrist slap. Those fans fail to understand that those coaches wore the armor of plausible deniability. Kentucky basketball coach John Calipari has had Final Four appearances vacated at UMass and Memphis, yet the NCAA never convicted Calipari of any wrongdoing. However when Marcus Camby got that money or Derrick Rose got that SAT score, someone else did it. Connecticut basketball coach Jim Calhoun got hit with a three-game suspension earlier this year for failing to monitor the men on his staff in a case involving an agent funneling money to former UConn recruit Nate Miles. Why didn't Calhoun get hammered the way Tressel might? All the NCAA could prove was that Calhoun's staffers did it. Those guys lost their jobs. Calhoun had plausible deniability.
The moment Tressel responded to a Cicero e-mail -- thereby acknowledging its receipt -- he stripped himself of his armor. From that moment, he was exposed. He could have reported the e-mail to his superiors, who would have passed it along to the NCAA. That probably would have gotten quarterback Pryor and receiver DeVier Posey, the 2010 Buckeyes listed in the e-mail, suspended for four games. That was the penalty for Georgia receiver A.J. Green, who was penalized in 2010 for selling an autographed jersey.
That might have been the end. With the players suspended, maybe no one would have dug deeper to find out Buckeyes have been getting hooked up for years at tattoo parlors. Tressel almost certainly would still be Ohio State's coach. Tressel chose another option, though. He had a team that appeared capable of competing for the national title. (Looking back, only a bad first and third quarter in Madison, Wis., kept the Buckeyes from playing for the title.) So Tressel rolled the dice and didn't tell his superiors about the e-mails. The moment Pryor or Posey set foot on the field during a game, Tressel would commit a major NCAA violation. When Tressel signed an NCAA form in September attesting that he didn't know of any violations, he told a lie. When NCAA investigators came to ask about the memorabilia swapping at the tattoo parlor, Tressel didn't confess he'd known. Lie No. 2. If those lies came to light, Tressel's actions wouldn't match his narrative.
Narratives also are critical in an NCAA infractions case, especially when a school is self-reporting violations. There is a certain alchemy to designing a self-report that acknowledges wrongdoing but minimizes punishment, while still seeming transparent enough to discourage any deeper digging. When the U.S. Department of Justice alerted Ohio State officials that player-only memorabilia had turned up in a raid of the home of Fine Line owner Edward Rife, the compliance department investigated. It then told the NCAA in its self-report that the case was limited to these players and this memorabilia.
"There are no other NCAA violations around this case," Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith said on Dec. 23. "We're very fortunate we do not have a systemic problem in our program. This is isolated to these young men, isolated to this particular incident. There are no other violations that exist."
Whoops.
Less than two months later, someone in the department discovered the e-mails between Cicero and Tressel. If it ever emerged that Smith or anyone in the athletic administration knew of the e-mails and didn't report them, they could be charged with the same unethical conduct violation as Tressel, and the Committee on Infractions almost certainly would blast the program for a lack of institutional control. So Ohio State also self-reported Tressel's lies.
This is when Ohio State shifted the narrative. Despite an outward show of support for Tressel -- including the "I'm just hoping the coach doesn't dismiss me" quote that has made Ohio State president Gordon Gee a laughingstock in the ivory tower world -- Ohio State's administration has done everything it can to make sure the NCAA and everyone else knows this is a Jim Tressel problem and not an Ohio State problem. Officials self-reported a violation of Bylaw 10.1 (unethical conduct) knowing full well that they essentially had declared Tressel guilty of one of the NCAA's mortal sins. The behind-the-scenes media strategy also suggests a desire to put distance between Tressel and the program. Oops, it appears we accidentally forgot last month to release these e-mails that prove Tressel forwarded the information to Pryor's shady handler.
Why would Ohio State do this to one of its most successful employees? Because Tressel can be replaced. No one person is bigger than the program. Only one person came close to being bigger than the program, and Ohio State fired Woody Hayes the morning after he punched Clemson's Charlie Bauman.
It is much easier to hire a new coach than it is to dig out from the rubble of scholarship sanctions and postseason bans. If the NCAA believes this is a Jim Tressel problem, all Ohio State must do is cut ties and move on to more Big Ten titles. If the NCAA believes this is an Ohio State problem, the situation gets much, much messier.
Has Ohio State shifted the narrative well enough? The Sporting News published a story Friday that shows Ohio State compliance director Doug Archie can't keep his story straight about how many times he has spoken with the Buckeyes' favorite car dealer. Just because the NCAA hasn't accused Ohio State of a failure to monitor or the dreaded lack of institutional control doesn't mean those charges are off the table. The enforcement staff could cancel Ohio State's August hearing before the Committee on Infractions, add more accusations and reschedule the hearing for a later date. Any new accusations probably would attack the program instead of the coach.
By accepting Tressel's resignation Monday, it's clear Ohio State will try to spin a narrative that turns the new revelations into a Jim Tressel problem and stops the bleeding at the August hearing. So months after his employer revealed the lies that shattered a reputation that didn't quite fit the facts, Tressel proved just how much he loves Ohio State. Monday, Tressel made the ultimate declaration of loyalty to the school he served so well by making all of Ohio State's problems his own.
100% true.
This, sir I was joking.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
Well hopefully Miami can just crush OSU while they are down
Not down.
The only thing we may lack is offensive leadership. Statistics wise we will be fine with Miller/Graham/Guiton/Bauserman playing QB and Hall/Berry at RB
The stuff with Small wasn't news? Given what has transpired, that just may have been the straw that broke the camel's back on Tressel. This has constantly been in the news and it reached a head that needed to be taken care of. Just because this fell on a holiday I think you're looking too far into things. And if Tressel was on vacation as I've read, then Gee probably did need to wait until he had returned to talk to him face to face. I just don't see the timing as anything but the point where the pressure cooker couldn't take any more pressure before it burst.
Based on how quickly Small backpedaled, hell yeah it was a major deal. Scottie Pippen thought he backpedaled hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerBlitz
Which is why I don't think the timing is strange. IF nothing else had come out I don't think this would have happened. But since he came out and said what he did I just think Gee had to make a decision before anything else transpired.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHuskers
Here is a link to the SI article.
Article seems primarily focused on undermining Tressel's character. But the allegations of more current players being linked to the memorabilia-for-tattoos problem is hard to ignore. And the memorabilia-for-marijuana allegation is pretty damning. Overall, the article just seems like people naming names. :smh:Quote:
Originally Posted by cdj
Side note:
Yeah, I'm sure they won't be able to limit it down by thinking about who worked there from 2008 to summer 2010 ...Quote:
The former employee, who worked for Rife from the fall of 2008 until last summer, agreed to speak to SI on condition that he remain anonymous; he fears that Rife or one of his associates will seek retribution for his disclosures.
Quote:
Ohio State has conceded that six current players committed an NCAA violation by trading memorabilia for tattoos or cash at Fine Line Ink: Pryor, tackle Mike Adams, running back Dan Herron, wide receiver DeVier Posey, defensive end Solomon Thomas and linebacker Jordan Whiting. Ellis, who spent time in and around the tattoo parlor for nearly 20 months, says that in addition to those six, he witnessed nine other active players swap memorabilia or give autographs for tattoos or money. Those players were defensive back C.J. Barnett, linebacker Dorian Bell, running back Jaamal Berry, running back Bo DeLande, defensive back Zach Domicone, linebacker Storm Klein, linebacker Etienne Sabino, defensive tackle John Simon and defensive end Nathan Williams. Ohio State declined to make any of its current players available to respond to SI.
Quote:
Ellis claims that two players whose eligibility expired at the close of the 2010 season -- safety Jermale Hines and cornerback Devon Torrence -- also conducted at least one transaction with Rife involving memorabilia or autographs before the season ended.
...
From the 2008 team, Ellis alleges that cornerback Donald Washington traded memorabilia for tattoos. Washington now plays for the Chiefs; his agent, Neil Cornrich, did not return SI's calls requesting comment.
...
Among those whose Ohio State careers ended after the 2009 season, Rose, Small, defensive end Thaddeus Gibson, running back Jermil Martin, wide receiver Lamaar Thomas and defensive lineman Doug Worthington made trades or sold memorabilia before their eligibility expired, according to Ellis.
We just dropped down farther in the sink hole.
Funny part to me was Pryor showing up in a new Car for a team meeting last night.
http://www.autocarcentre.com/wp-cont...70z-nissan.jpg
Ha, yeah I read that on twitter. Rumors are he may be kicked off the team?
This is only going to get worse for tOSU.
Yep. IMHO they are better off just admitting a lack of institutional control give themselves the U$C penalty and hope/pray the NCAA thinks that is enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by xMrHitStickx904
This thing has all the makings of just absolutely blowing up (even more than it is now). I can even envision a scenario where the "death penalty" is in play.
Could you explain your scenario on the death penalty?
Hypothetically, if the NCAA continues its investigation and finds multiple/serious/systematic violations in The Ohio State football program throughout the Tressel era they could rule/find Ohio State to be a "repeat violator" which is a rule/term used when handing out the death penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody
Additionally, the NCAA has power to hand out whatever punishment it sees fit. Essentially, they are the Judge, Jury and Executioner when it comes to "major" college sports. If Ohio St. other schools don't like it they can simply drop out of the NCAA and play intermurals or form their own college sports "league" and make up the rules as they deem fit.
Examples of the three "biggest" "Death Penalty" cases and how it could tie into Ohio St.
:Kentucky: Basketball 1951 - Point Shaving Scandal. Let's say the NCAA digs into Pryor and they find all sorts of "unsavory" connections to gamblers and then he/someone else admits to point shaving/fixing a game. Nothing currently hints at this but dig enough into Pryor's background and I bet you could find some HUGE skelletons in the closet.
Southwestern Louisiana Basketball 1973 - Academic Fraud - Suppose we also find out that Pryor (other players) cannot even read yet has somehow managed to pass enough classes to be on pace to graduate. :fp:
(:North_Carolina: should also be worried about this with their ongoing investigation as well)
:SMU: Football 1986 - Players Being Paid After Multiple Recruiting Violations - Pryor is not only getting free/cheap cars to drive around but Tressell et al. also got Pryor hooked up with some Boosters to keep him happy like the Fab 5 combined with the finding of years of Tressel era infractions.
I highly doubt the NCAA would go the death penalty route, even if the facts end up coming out to support it. The damage it did to SMU, it is something to be used only in the most absolute, 100% severest cases. Hell, I'd almost go to say that the NCAA would do anything it could but give the death penalty if it could avoid it.. Plus, even with the NCAA starting to crack down on schools, I just can't see them giving such a giant money maker, for both the Big Ten and the NCAA, the death penalty.
You are probably right. I am merely laying out the case using prior precedent (which the NCAA doesn't seem to care much for with the "each case is unique" mindset) Well yes each case is unique. Each SMU case was "unique" back in the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes
Ironically, the most recent "death penalty" cases were against DIII schools. One was over a school that didn't even realize it even had an official soccer team.
They most likely won't lay down the "death penalty". However, that doesn't mean the facts will not eventually come out that could/would support such a punishment based on previous cases.
True, but you also have to look at everything that led up to the SMU death penalty. If there was a school that really earned it, it was them. Already on three years probation for multiple recruiting violations. Had been on probation five times since 1974 (seven times total, most of any NCAA school), and then came allegations of athletes STILL being paid in 1986, as well as a continuing slush fund. And then the things the SMU board of governors went about continuing to pay athletes until all the current ones being paid had graduated before they would go and dissolve the slush fund "because they decided they had to honor previous commitments made to the players", all the while telling the NCAA that there were no longer any players being paid.
At the moment, the Ohio State situation is nothing like that. It was stuff being done by boosters and local business that, yes, maybe Tressel did know about ALL of it, but I honestly don't know if, and want to think with some certainty not, the entire OSU athletic department or Gee or whoever else would have had knowledge of and tried to cover it up or pass the blame on to whoever. So far, all that has come out, is Tressel lying to the higher ups and his superiors at Ohio State and lying to the NCAA. Nothing so far of the entire athletic department, or Gee, or the OSU Board of Trustees lying left and right to the NCAA like what happened at SMU.
the ncaa stated in the 80s that if they still gave out the death penalty UF would have 'earned' it under charlie pell, massive cheating (and they were cheating right after with emmit smith lol)
just want to make sure it is included with the other big time scandals listed above :)...to many people in florida like to forget about it.
Is the AD Smith next to step down?
Yeah not sure what is with all the death penalty talk. It won't happen. I think some (probably former now) NCAA big wigs have even state as such. Sanctions will be the most they would do.
If he doesn't I would be shocked, he of all people should have been asking more questions!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody
Yeah, I can definitely see Ohio State getting slapped hardcore, much worse than USC, but it's been no secret in the press and in college football in general in the past that the NCAA, after seeing what it did to SMU, pretty much has no intentions of ever using the death penalty on a football program again. As well, yeah, you can definitely call it preferential treatment, but no way in hell would the NCAA ever hand down a death penalty on one of the biggest (and one of the most money producing) teams in college football.Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerBlitz
LSUFreek has arrived.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78...tTu_Brutus.gif