Simple, it wasn't EA so it's the greatest thing ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
I actually liked a lot of things about it...especially building up my team with legends, and creating teams. Eventually I just got tired the gameplay.
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Simple, it wasn't EA so it's the greatest thing ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
I actually liked a lot of things about it...especially building up my team with legends, and creating teams. Eventually I just got tired the gameplay.
I'm the opposite, JB. I got tired of the building teams that didn't quite fit what I wanted, but I never tired of the gameplay. Now that I've got my PS3 back I'm planning to play some 2k8 again.
My liking 2k8 had nothing to do with 2k or EA. I didn't enjoy any of the previous editions of the title. But for 2k8, the blocking on it was so impressive. I'm hoping NCAA and Madden will reach that level this year with the improved AI.
I'm personally waiting for the day that the exclusive license run out and another developer can make a college football game. I wouldn't necessarily buy it, but I think it would be good for everyone to have a little competition. Look at the NBA 2k vs NBA Live. For several years, 2k has been making Live look like a joke. However, 2k has begun to become mediocre and Live had been creaping up on them every year to the point that I would say Live was actually better than 2k with the 2010 iterations.
Competition = better games for everyone.
The two NHL series have been the same way. And I don't think FIFA would have risen from the ashes without PES and Winning Eleven.
That said, NCAA seems to be rising up this year without competition. Healthy competition always helps, but sometimes willpower and motivation works too.
Did you play 2K10? It's still top dawg IMO. There were definitely some presentation things I really like about Live, especially the interactive seasons with the fans, that was super cool. But gameplay and pregame presentation still goes to 2K. Maybe it's a preference thing though. I really liked ncaa basketball 10 as well, and it was a lot like Live. I wish that they could have made the crowd better in the college game though. There were some decent aspects, but they didn't react well in crunch time like Live did.Quote:
Originally Posted by IOUaBeatn
1 thing's for sure, if they could get any of that crowd presentation into ncaa football, it would brighten the experience times 100. The crowd sucks the life out of you sometimes
I thought the gameplay in Live blew 2k10 out of the water. The motions were more fluid, the gameplay was smoother, and the game just felt better. 2k10 felt slow, awkward, and dated to me. Not to mention I love having the crossovers freestyle dribbling on the right stick as opposed to the retarded L2 + whatever 2k10 used. Like you said, a lot of it probably has to do with preference. NBA Live is a much faster game and that's what I prefer.
True, true. You don't think Backbreaker brought out the need for a Locomotion type engine and some other stuff from the ncaa team though? I think it had a lot to do with some of the gameplay improvements that they chose to pursue this year. Mainly motion and blocking AI. So in a way, competition was a part of it. At least in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
Yeah I thought maybe preference thing. I had to pull the gamespeed up to 73 or so in 2k, cause I like it faster too. I'm interested to see how ncaa 11 plays in this aspect for me, being that it's a trite slower this year. I think I'll like it though, and I do love the right stick for making moves. Somewhere between ncaa 10 and madden 10 is where I hope gameplay will be as far as speed. From my ear I think that's about the consensus so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by IOUaBeatn
Competition is definitely better for all parts involved.....look at pro wrestling, until TNA or something else becomes a legit contender, Vince is going to stick with the PG entertainment crap.
Competition is great; however, a mediocre All Pro Football 2k8, and a seemingly annoying and poorly produced Backbreaker are just quick flashes for people to say they're great, then they'll either collect dust on the shelf or go up on eBay once they realize they're not that fun to play a couple months down the road. If APF 2K8 was so great....then why didn't it sell more than 400k copies on both systems combined? And I do believe it started at a lower price point. Not sure on that though.
I mean after playing the Backbreaker demo, I really didn't want to play another game, let alone a season or a franchise. But for me the writing was on the wall when we barely got anything from 505 (and remember the last company to have 3 numbers, I think it was 989 ;) ) in terms of solid information until really late. That conference call that was posted on OS, there were so many NO's littered throughout the feature rundown. I gave the game a good hour, and all it did was give me a good headache from the camera.
The problem isn't EA being a monopoly, because all other games where they're not a monopoly, the competition may put out one good title, but sure as hell can't build upon it. NHL 2K is a huge example, and what was brought up earlier, NBA 2K....I had a blast playing NBA Live this year, and they're gaining on NBA 2K. Another problem is look how much time it took Backbreaker to even get traction and get a firm release date. You can use the excuse of how many are on the dev team or what not, but in the end, it's just an excuse.
I'm a guy that didn't like the 2K series until 2K3. I had tried 2K and 2K1 but the game was so raw that Madden was just better. But I got a used copy of 2K3 which I really liked despite the tackle bug tipping run/pass. Then 2K4 was awesome. I loved that game. It was second only to NCAA 06 on my football gaming list on the PS2. I actually felt 2K5 took some backwards steps and it disappointed me. So I did give APF 2K8 a chance.
I had liked the engine in the past and liked the idea of playing with Marino but that game disappointed me so much when I popped it in. It felt just like 2K5 but with no team logos and only a handful of players. Throwing to your generic slot receiver just wasn't fun. And the graphics engine looked just like last gen! I swear I thought about throwing the disc in to my PS2 to see if it would play the game. That's what pissed me off about 2K8 fanboys bashing EA's next gen football titles for not having refs, chain gangs, etc. because their game had it. Well their game had crappy last gen player models and graphics. Of course it's easier to implement some of that stuff.
If more people could be logical and state what they liked between two direct competitors like IOU, Rudy, etc. have in this thread, more people would be sympathetic to the 'no exclusive license' debate. It's easy to write off that belief when there are people who demand it, yet when a direct competitor comes out they can only state 'Company A defecates over Company B' despite never owning or playing one (if not both) of the titles.
A lot of sports gaming companies say they have competitors, even if they have an exclusive license. They know at $60 a pop, if their game isn't fun people will just go buy something else. For example, if people play the BackBreaker demo and don't enjoy it, their money may not go to another football game - it could go to Red Dead Redemption, UFC 2010, Alan Wake, etc. Even the most ardent sport gamers play another genre of games and they can go elsewhere.
It'd be great if each league allowed two (or more) studios to make a licensed game, but I understand why they do not. They have an image to protect and if they feel it's best served to only allow one company the license, then I can't really begrudge them. Some people have made the point that leagues should be required (by govt, I assume) to allow at least two companies for each licensed aspect of their sport, but what if they only feel one company is worthy? Why should they be forced to allow anyone they don't want to make a licensed product?
Even if there was no exclusive license, what companies could afford the license anyways? EA could, 2K is iffy, 505 Games probably not. We'd probably be in the same boat. Companies bailed out of the NFL and NCAA games even before the exclusive licenses occurred.
I may be wrong, but I believe the practice of the exclusive third-party license started when 2K Sports grabbed the MLB license and EA Sports responded by grabbing the NFL & NCAA licenses. EA takes the brunt of the criticism, when in all reality they were responded to what 2K started.
Also, I've heard that these licenses are just for third-party publishers. Technically, first-party publishers (Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo) could make an NFL game similar to what Sony does with MLB: The Show. That may not be right, but I've heard it several times.
I'm going to try and download the demo sometime this week, doubt that I will play it much, but my 5 year might.
Yeah I think it's flip flopped. EA obtained the NFL license in 2005 (well December 13th of 2004). 2K's started in 2006. But as everyone knows, it wasn't EA Sports that wanted the exclusive license. The NFL didn't want a $20 product representing them. Before you say that NFL 2k5 is GOD, remember we're talking business and not gaming here. The NFL didn't want to be a dollar store product, so they seeked out who would best be able to hold the exclusive license.Quote:
Originally Posted by cdj
The main difference, the NFL seeked out EA for exclusive rights, Take Two and 2K seeked out MLB in response.
I've really liked playing the Tecmo Bowl remake on the 360 arcade, does that count?
:)
I wish they could bring back Coach K college basketball on the arcade now. That game was the best college bball game of all time.
If Sony made a NFL/College football game, I'd be all over it. The Show is golden. And yes, CDJ, I think you're right. I'm 99% sure that the exclusive license only applies to 3rd party publishers. If Sony or Microsoft wanted to, I'm very sure they could develop a NFL game.
The Show is golden, but their NBA franchise deserved golden showers :DQuote:
Originally Posted by IOUaBeatn
I thought EA's deal was entirely exclusive. Whereas 2K's deal with MLB was exclusive only that it pushed out third-party developers so that Sony or Microsoft could develop MLB games... basically all it did was lockout EA.Quote:
Originally Posted by IOUaBeatn
Haha, yeah, I forgot about that. NBA '09 wasn't that bad, IIRC. It definitely wasn't on The Show's level.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHuskers
As for the deal, I'm not positive, but like I said, I think the deal only applies to 3rd party developers. I don't know about the deal with Madden and the NFL, but I'm pretty sure the deal with NCAA and EA are similar to 2K's with MLB.
Unless there is a re-up the MLB deal ends in 2012.
Can't forget that the deals are not just exclusive deals with the league but also the player's union. At any time the NFLPA could step in and say we'll give the license to anyone. The NHLPA actually reached an exclusive deal with EA a few years ago and Bettman and the NHL stepped in and said they would only grant the NHL license if there was no exclusive deal. The NFL and NFLPA don't care about the gamer. They only care about maximizing cash.
I think it's possible, but it also could be total coincidence. For all we know, they've been working on some of these improvements for two years (because, honestly, this seems like a lot to do in a one year dev cycle).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayrah
No matter what, if Madden or NCAA ever get true physics, everyone's going to point to Backbreaker. Maybe it'll actually be true, maybe not. I'd guess not.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by IOUaBeatn
The MLB deal with 2k is the only one that allows first-party developers (i.e. Sony) to develop a game using the license. The NFL and NCAA licenses (or at least NFL, I can't find details on NCAA) is exclusive for everything except mobile.Quote:
The NFL/EA arrangement encompasses action, simulation, arcade-style, and manager games made for PCs, consoles, and handhelds (both the DS and PSP, included), giving EA a firm hold on the football gaming market. The deal does not include titles for mobile phones or Internet-based games, but does include online features of consoles.
Interesting, that's a bummer. Not like they see the interest or appeal of making a college football game anyway.
Found on the response to the PSN update blog. Lmao. Yes, because that's a reason for Sony to release Backbreaker early rather than when it's done.Quote:
Give us backbreaker you saps. You’re going to hurt sales for Naturalmotion.
I love reading those. The most idiotic people you'll ever find make their home in the comment section. :D
Copying from the Utopia BB thread:
Something I've been convinced of as I've watched this year's development cycle (and Madden's last year) is that EA Sports did a disservice to themselves by rushing to put out Madden 06 and NCAA 07 on the 360.Quote:
Originally Posted by Run of Four
MLB: The Show 07 released in May 07, nearly three months after the same title released on PS2 and PSP. The Show 07 is notably known for having barely above PS2 level visuals, while getting in the vast majority of the featureset from the PS2 version.
Compare with NCAA 07, which had significantly better visuals on 360 than PS2, but was lacking all but the basic features.
Since then, we've heard on several occasions that one of the issues plaguing NCAA has been the framerate. The graphics engine was built in such a way to max out the visuals based on the 22 players already on the field. Thus, there was no room for growth in the graphics engine. This means that time (and resources) must be spent on optimizing the current engine to get a few more visuals out of it (i.e. players on the sideline, refs).
I have long believed that the primary issue series like NCAA face is prioritization. We all believe here that we "know" the direction EA should go with their series. And to satisfy the hardcore, we're probably right the majority of the time. But the hardcore, the userbase of Utopia, is not NCAA's primary target audience. It never has been. So that's why features like Season Showdown may make no sense to the hardcore userbase, but the casual fans might find it very interesting (judging by participation in it last year, I think they did).
Finally, one more point to make. In 2004, the late Randy Pausch (he of "The Last Lecture" at Carnegie Mellon ... look it up if you've never seen it) spent some time at EA (not EA Sports, but EA Corporate) and wrote up an academic paper about his observations.
A few major takeaways:
(Note when I was recently talking about the lack of code sharing between EA titles, I didn't even remember this quote. I had come up with it independently after looking at Online Franchise and Online Dynasty.)Quote:
One of the biggest challenges for EA is the centralization of tools and technology; currently most titles "fend for themselves," with very little code reuse across EA's portfolio. (There is more code reuse in the Vancouver studio, especially amongst the various sports titles).
I thought there was something about legacy code and maintenance, but I can't find the quote now.Quote:
EA, like Intel, is a very paranoid company; there is no sense of resting on their laurels or of taking anything for granted. They are well aware of what they perceive their weaknesses to be.
I was looking forward to dowloading backbreaker today... but... ps3 strikes again. First tecmo now backbreaker. I would suggest Sony not drop the ball with the NCAA demo or else there will be hell to pay. I can live without tecmo/backbreaker but NCAA is entirely different.
Re: Tecmo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
I very much doubt the PS3 version is even done yet.
But I thought backbreaker was advertising a Tuesday PS3 release???Quote:
Originally Posted by IOUaBeatn
I meant Tecmo Bowl. :D
Backbreaker is releasing Tuesday. Sorry for the confusion.
Yeah, definitely most of this stuff was 'set up' through the groundwork of last year. We commented a lot before 10 came out that it seemed ea was waiting for 11 to take it up a level. Last year was definitely a 'get through it' year, with the focus being to lay some ground work and update just enough to get it on the market, with some eye candy features. This year obviously is a different story, and I don't know if they were going to hire a new executive producer or not, but that seems to have worked out well too.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
I agree. I'd rather a company port over a game with all it's features and substandard graphics the first year. At least the game will have some polish and claim to be better than the past gen version. After that work on upgrading player models and improving the graphics and animations. EA has usually struggled when going to a new console. Look how bad they ruined NBA Live when they went from the PS1 to the PS2. NHL was pretty crappy too.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHCross
Thanks for the correction on the info, dudes.
So is the PS3 delay due to Sony being backed up, them finding an issue in the BB demo or what?
pastapadre had a nice write-up on demo impressions.
I agree, ppl that hate ea will still say bb is better then madden! WRONG
Wow. After reading this I'm glad I wasn't able to dl Backbreaker. Would have been a waste of 30 minutes and half a gig or so of memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by cdj
That's what I thought about Backbreaker, except I gave it over 60 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
Just to reiterate everything that JB has said about this game; it's basically the most nauseating experience I've ever had playing a football game. That camera is THE WORST and throwing the ball is the most unappealing thing I've ever experienced (and that even includes the vision cone thing from Madden a few years back playing as a QB in Superstar mode where you HAD to switch the cone to whoever you were throwing the ball to before you threw it to them).
The controls are stiff, sometimes unresponsive, and awkward. Even switching to the other control mode, the spin move is atrocious. It's the most canned looking animation crap I've ever seen.
I'm very curious to see the reviews on this. I love how on another site people who were so optimistic on the EA games is so blind. But yet when they're called blind on saying how great Backbreaker is, well you just can't call them a hypocrite.
But it has Euphoria physics!!!1!!11