How much of the problems on defense are because you can "throw receiver's open"? I do not like the fact that a receiver can be running a streak and you turn it into a post or flag route and him react to it like it was a designed play call.Quote:
Originally Posted by gschwendt
The zone play is a big downer. I'm still getting I'm sure, but jeeze. Hopefully they can patch it up.
I figured but thought I'd ask anyway. It really is unacceptable for the zones to be broken. I'll still enjoy the game and play the heck out of it BUT an important aspect of gameplay being worse than last year SUCKS!Quote:
Originally Posted by gschwendt
Throwing a receiver open isn't the issue... it may make the issue worse, but there are times when defenders just don't play a proper zone. For example, a last second hail mary and the deep zones let 3 WRs run right by them. Here are some examples of worst case scenarios that I saw this past week.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryby6969
425 Alignment vs No Huddle
425 Cover 2 Sink vs Swing Pass
Bad deep coverage
CPU Shotgun Speed Option
Bad deep coverage #2
Hail Mary gets behind deep coverage
Well, the others aren't as obvious, but it's pretty damned apparent what happened there. The DBs aren't turning and running until after the ball is thrown. So Read & React is reading and reacting to the QB ........... but not the WR that runs right by them.Quote:
Originally Posted by gschwendt
Thanks gshwendt... I guess... :( Your honesty is much appreciated but what I don't understand is how EA, after last year's colossal failure of Biblical proportions, could follow up this year w/ what you described. They have people come down to their HQ's to help them out and what do they do w/ that? Apparently, they don't listen worth a fuck. Such a disappointment.
The first bad deep coverage one I could live with, depending on the safeties ratings. He jumped the crossing route and got caught out of position. The other two deep issues were definitely bad.
One thing I do not like is the fact that there is so much time to throw the ball even with a 4 or 5 man rush. This is contributing to some of the issues IMO. You should not have 5 or 6 seconds to throw the ball and let those guys get so deep when you have a 4 or 5 man rush.
Here's a video of Texas vs Texas (A+ rated defense) where I threw virtually nothing but 4 verts and a comeback route. The first video shows Cover 2 Sink and Cover 3 and the second video shows Cover 1.
Click the following links:
Texas Orange is throwing against Cover 2 Sink and Texas White is throwing against Cover 3.
In this video both teams are throwing against Cover 1.
Welp , I'm playing man every down I see.
To put those videos in context:Quote:
Originally Posted by xMrHitStickx904
Quote:
Here's a video of Texas vs Texas (A+ rated defense) where I threw virtually nothing but 4 verts and a comeback route. The first video shows Cover 2 Sink and Cover 3 and the second video shows Cover 1.
http://www.media.ncaaplaybook.com/4v2a3.mp4 - on this one the Texas Orange is throwing against Cover 2 Sink and Texas White is throwing against Cover 3.
http://www.media.ncaaplaybook.com/4vc1.mp4 - in this video both teams are throwing against Cover 1.
All total I went 18/26 and 5 TDs against one of the best defenses in the game, most of the incompletions were a result of throwing 4 verts inside the +20, which is why I switched to the comeback route.
After this, out of curiosity I went in and deleted the tuner file as others were seeing better games after doing such, however this resulted in zero change. So I then went into an exhibition game versus Virginia Tech (A+ Defense) this time letting the CPU pick the plays, again no difference in outcome.
The problem is the middle is wide open versus Cover 2, the hook curl defenders aren't walling off #2 and preventing them from entering the hash area, the corners aren't sinking fast enough to cutoff the 9 route and because the safety is aligned out of position he is unable to effect the throw, finally the hook defender isn't gaining depth fast enough and as soon as #3 releases he stops his drop, this wouldn't be a problem if the hook/curl defenders were walling #2.
In Cover 3, the Curl/Flat defenders aren't carrying the seam leaving it wide open which results in an easy throw all you need to do is throw away from the safety rotation. Versus Cover 1, the corner isn't playing a high shoulder technique and gets stuck in a trail position far too often, time the pass and put some loft under it to the outside shoulder of the receiver and you'll complete more times than not.
The only two coverage's that seem to have an effect on 4 verts are Cover 2 Man and Quarters, I'm sure y'all can see the problems there - Texas's QB isn't that great, however he is having great success throwing the ball, imagine doing this with a prolific running QB like the one from Ohio State. This is what we are going to see online. So now as a defensive play caller you have to pick your poison, give up a gain via ground or air, sure you can bring pressure, but are you able to get there in time - this is why I tested with Cover 1, 2 and 3. Versus a man blitz your throwing over the top to #1, you can see in the video that's not a problem, versus zone blitz you're seeing a 3 under/3 deep with the SCIF player not carrying the seam, throw to #2 away from safety rotation or your seeing a 4 under/2 deep coverage with free access to the middle of the field - you're now gambling that the person on the other end can't read it quick enough, however with 15 minutes of practice you can accurately guess the defensive coverage pre-snap as against a balanced formation nothing is disguised. In cover 2 zone or man, the corners are up and the slot defenders are 3-ish yards off the LOS with a 2 deep shell - read #2 to #3 or run. Versus Cover 3 and 1 the slot defenders are up on the LOS, corners are 7 yards off and you've either got a one high look or the safeties are staggered and deeper than 10 yards off the LOS, read #2 away from safety rotation to #1. Versus Cover 4, you get a Cover 3 look underneath with a two deep shell and the safeties are aligned at 9ish yards off the LOS, wait for everyone to drop and either drop it off to the back or run. Once your opponent see's his plan of attack isn't working they'll either bring pressure or play 2 Man, the comeback route absolutely destroys man coverage or if you have a fast QB run with the ball and if they bring pressure see above. If the pressure starts to bother you, throw screens - or you're likely seeing pressure with press man, hot route your receiver to a fade route, in testing it's un-bumpable. I haven't seen it held up at the LOS yet and 9/10 times the WR has instantly gotten past the DB and is wide open.
Honestly, I'm not surprised. Everyone SHOULD have seen this coming and what you saw in the demo likely is the product at least until Patch #1. I'll enjoy the game for what it is but unfortunately EA just isn't turning out great games (compared to other genres/companies and even other competitors in the sports game genre).
Remember when NCAA 12 came out and zone was super over-powered?
I just saw exactly what G is talking about. Playing a throwaway dynasty as Colorado State, playing against Colorado, I called a zone play on the very first play of Colorado's drive, got smoked for a 49 yard touchdown pass, where the receiver ended up 10 yards behind my entire secondary, who didn't react until the ball was being thrown. It was too late for any of my players to turn, catch the guy and tackle him by that time. This is gonna be a massive black mark on NCAA '13 unless the team either got it fixed in the day one patch or is going to get it fixed as soon as they can in a second patch. Zones are almost completely unplayable right now.
Do the safeties in cover 2 man do the same thing and let the receivers run by them? If so, this is going to be virtually unplayable online.
So it seems that the new read and react is what is affecting the zones?
Leave to EA to tout a new "feature" which opens up a new can of worms that makes the area they were trying to fix/correct worse. :smh: Steelerfan going to come through for me though with some kick ass sliders that make playing the CPU fun/difficult :nod:
Yep. I just experienced it on the offensive side, completing two passes for 55 and 24 yards, the safeties letting the receivers go right by them and ignoring the receiver until I've started throwing the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by I OU a Beatn
It's not an everytime thing but yeah, definitely more than it should.Quote:
Originally Posted by I OU a Beatn
Read & react is certainly part of it but so is the new alignment, or at least related to the alignment. On the hash, the safety on the short side of the field right now lines up on the OT to his side (or thereabouts). That would be fine if he then dropped straight back or more towards the middle but as it is, he seems to use the same drop-back that he does in the middle of the field, meaning he drops towards the sideline, leaving a wide gap between him and the other safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingpin32
No, it's definitely not every time. My last defensive series, I was calling zone plays every play, and my guys defended the ball to force a Colorado punt, but other plays, both as the defense and as the offense, it's glaring and massive.Quote:
Originally Posted by gschwendt
:fp:Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothPancakes