FYI - New Sliders Coming

[Oneback]

I wanted to give a heads up that I've been working on new sliders for the 2017 season. In an attempt to fix most of the issues we've been seeing I've turned to Varsity difficulty - I was hesitant in doing so, however I've found I've been able to make the game play better and have the CPU give us a better game. Jeff and I have been testing in User v. User games to ensure we get a good experience there as well. I'm still making a few final tweaks and Jeff and I will need to play another game to test, but I'm hoping to have them released by this weekend so you guys can test against the CPU and other users if you wish and give feedback.

If you're interested in playing against another user please post up with what default team you'd like to test with and Jeff or I will create a Test OD to do so.

[JeffHCross]

I'm thinking we might want to delay the start of the next season by a few days or a week, just to give more people time to play with the new sliders. I'd also like to have a little more time to come up with a possible solution to the whole schedules-not-changing problem. I might not have a chance to test that out until this weekend, and that might be too late at the pace we roll.

[Oneback]

I don't think we'll be able to get to Week 1, 2017 until next week at the earliest.

[JeffHCross]

Well, yes. I meant too late to work on it, propose ideas and get everyone to consider it before we get through the offseason. It's not something I want to rush.

[nykia31]

kinda skeptical about varsity difficulty

[JeffHCross]

There's long been theories that Varsity difficulty is the one that plays the most true to the ratings. I've seen some evidence both for and against that theory. Oneback's shared some of his CPU games under his test sliders, and they definitely have made the CPU more of a threat than they are now. But that doesn't mean there won't be exploits. And that doesn't mean his games in his test OD match up against the horrible CPU teams that are now in our conferences. But at least it's a shot at making those games less laughable.

I will say that, at least in user games, there doesn't seem to be quite the change in performance that I expected. If I didn't know what sliders we were running, you could just as easily convince me that, against another user, they could be Varsity, AA or Heisman. They just play very balanced and evenly.

All that being said, I welcome others to volunteer to test them. Maybe you'll find problems that, due to our offensive styles, Oneback and I cannot.

[nykia31]

I was always under the impression that the ratings are tuned for AA difficulty.

At least that is the way it is on Madden. AA is basically the equivelant of "All Pro"..at All Pro the CPU and User are 50-50 across the board.

But then again there may be differences beween the 2 games on how the sliders effect the gameplay

[nykia31]

I was thinking of giving these a whirl in Offline

http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football-sliders/591061-cf47-realistic-aa-heisman-siders-ratings-matter.html

[JeffHCross]

I was always under the impression that the ratings are tuned for AA difficultyI think the short answer is "nobody really knows"


I was thinking of giving these a whirl in Offline

http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football-sliders/591061-cf47-realistic-aa-heisman-siders-ratings-matter.htmlPersonally, I'm not a fan of either Slow speed or 0 threshold. I wouldn't want to ever combine them.

[ryby6969]

There's long been theories that Varsity difficulty is the one that plays the most true to the ratings. I've seen some evidence both for and against that theory. Oneback's shared some of his CPU games under his test sliders, and they definitely have made the CPU more of a threat than they are now. But that doesn't mean there won't be exploits. And that doesn't mean his games in his test OD match up against the horrible CPU teams that are now in our conferences. But at least it's a shot at making those games less laughable.

I will say that, at least in user games, there doesn't seem to be quite the change in performance that I expected. If I didn't know what sliders we were running, you could just as easily convince me that, against another user, they could be Varsity, AA or Heisman. They just play very balanced and evenly.

All that being said, I welcome others to volunteer to test them. Maybe you'll find problems that, due to our offensive styles, Oneback and I cannot.

I think this is the big thing. In the SEC, we have at least 3 teams whose QB will scramble as soon as the ball is snapped. All that leads to is way too many sacks and a lot of easy drives for the user teams. With the talent discrepancy, I would not enjoy the games being "close" just to be close. Like you said, it is tough to know how the sliders will work with the teams the way they are.

[JeffHCross]

I actually meant the opposite. That this might work for good CPU trends, but may not make the teams in our conferences any more competitive.

[Oneback]

I don't believe these sliders will make games artificially close - in my test OD I was still beating the likes of Vandy 52-3, but with our current sliders I would've probably won 70+ - 3, however the teams that matched up well with me gave me a game, I beat Georgia 20-17 by throwing a TD in the final minute, I came back in the SECCG and beat Georgia again 28-7, and won the MNC by defeating Washington 30-17.

We'll still beat the teams we should, however we shouldn't be seeing 100 point games anymore as my highest scoring game was 62 against an FCS team. In the end my scoring average was still inline with the top CPU offenses.

What I didn't see however is all the weird stuff we see from time to time now in games. The CPU still makes boneheaded play calls and will attempt to scramble too much which is ultimately why they lose games they should at the very least be close in, nothing I can do for that short of editing every single CPU playbook and editing every CPU QB - not going to happen.

These sliders aren't perfect, but that's only because the game is flawed, I don't believe there will ever be a perfect set of sliders for this game.

[acropora52]

Would you mind posting the sliders you're using? We've had some discussion about tweaking sliders but my concern is that the AA sliders we've used have been pretty good for user games and I don't want mess those up to make the cpu more difficult.

[Oneback]

Would you mind posting the sliders you're using? We've had some discussion about tweaking sliders but my concern is that the AA sliders we've used have been pretty good for user games and I don't want mess those up to make the cpu more difficult.

I'm going to post them tonight/early tomorrow. I need to make a change on the CPU side now that Jeff and I have tested UvU games and play a few more CPU games.

[Escobar]

Hartstopper's Heisman sliders (OS)
(http://www.operationsports.com/forums/ncaa-football-sliders/559217-hartstoppers-ncaa-13-heisman-sliders.html)
I still recommend taking a look at these sliders. I use them in my OD, and we are at the end of season 5. I also use them in my offline Dynasty and I am in season 7 or 8. We still have a variety of results even though users have built their teams up. People still have close games, upsets, and blowouts depending on how the CPU teams match up.

Papa has played a couple CPU games in my OD as well as a user game against myself, and he felt the same way I do. The sliders give a realistic challenge w/o making the game seem unrealistic or that the CPU is trying to "game" you. I changed the quarter length to 7 min as opposed to 8 min.

[Papa LoneStar]

DEFinitely....I had a very fun HOME game vs Alabama....won 20-17 I believe....they were A and I was A- Arkansas.

[Oneback]

Here are the potential new sliders. If you are going to test these out please do so within a dynasty - sliders seem to react differently in practice, exhibition and dynasty. If you're interested in getting in a few UvU games with these sliders please post up and either myself or Jeff will start a test OD and match people up. Please don't hold back on any thoughts you have, thanks.

http://i.imgur.com/yUbQc3d.png

[JeffHCross]

Or, for that matter, if anybody else wants to setup an OD, nothing wrong there either. Let's get some testing in, whoever runs it.

[psuexv]

I say we just run with them. What better way to test them. If its completely miserable then we go back to what we have.

I trust you guys did some thorough testing

[JeffHCross]

Alright, but when USC starts 0-3 ...

[psuexv]

Alright, but when USC starts 0-3 ...

So we will be right where we are with the current sliders

[gschwendt]

I started an offline dynasty using these sliders. In my first game, I played default Alabama using my 2017 Michigan team (TeamBuilder). I struggled early but once I settled in, the sliders as well became moderately easy. The running game seemed much easier than the passing game. The CPU DBs were probably too good being stuck to my receivers all game but then again it's Alabama.


All in all, the new sliders are certainly an improvement without cheating the user, but nothing will ever fix the inept CPU decision making. I've got default Texas next on the schedule... I'll probably play that tonight unless someone wants to hook up for an OD UvU game to test them out.

[psusnoop]

I'm not sure when I will get a chance but maybe tomorrow night G we could math up for a game.

[ryby6969]

I played a half in my offline OD as Miami vs Kstate and was up 28-0 before half. Only thing I noticed was the cpu HB's broke a lot of tackles and the D-line would destroy my O-line when they did the jump the snap.

[nykia31]

We've used these with good results in another OD


Difficulty: All-American
Speed: Normal
Speed Threshold: 50

Levels: (USER/CPU)
QB Acc: 35/60
Pass Block: 40/55
WR Catch: 40/60
RB Ability: 45/60
Run Blocking: 45/65
Pass Coverage: 50/65
Pass Rush: 50/50
Interceptions: 45/50
Rush Defense: 50/55
Tackling: 50/50
FG Pow: 50/50
FG Acc: 45/50
Punt Pow: 50/50
Punt Acc: 50/50
Kickoff Pow: 45/50

[Oneback]

I've made a few changes to the sliders after comparing our stats to the average of the top 25 schools from 2012 (real football).

Here are the real stats from this past years Top 25 schools:

Completion Percentage: 64%
Yards Per Attempt: 8.08
TD:INT Ratio: 2.59
Yards Per Rush: 4.79

Through 4 weeks are are our averages in the same categories:

Completion Percentage: 75%
Yards Per Attempt: 12.36
TD:INT Ratio: 2.32
Yards Per Rush: 5.66

With that in mind I've made the following changes:

HUM
Lowered QB Accuracy to 25 from 35, moved to 30 in week 2.
Lowered Pass Blocking back to 40.
Lowered WR Catching back to 25.
Raised Interceptions from 25 to 45.
Raised Rush Defense to 35 from 25.
Lowered Tackling to 30 from 35
Lowered Tackling to 35 (in Week 2).

CPU
Lowered Pass Blocking to 40.
Moved Pass coverage to 5 (week 2).
Lowered Interceptions to 55 from 75.
Raised Rush Defense to 100 from 95.
Lowered tackling to 60 from 65.

I'll continue to track our stats and adjust accordingly, I don't know that we'll ever get down to the real world averages considering how bad the CPU plays at times but I'll try to keep getting us closer without making it feel like the CPU is cheating us.

[JeffHCross]

You lowered CPU Pass Blocking? They're getting killed out there. Five user teams are averaging more than 7 sacks a game.

[ryby6969]

Tackling is absurd. Nebraska's 190lb QB has broken 5 tackles already on their first drive, all by my D-line. He has just trucked each on of them.

[ryby6969]

He ended up with 10BTK for the game. Probably a good thing though as he ended up being sacked 11 times anyway.

[Oneback]

Tackling is absurd. Nebraska's 190lb QB has broken 5 tackles already on their first drive, all by my D-line. He has just trucked each on of them.

That 190 pound QB has a BTK rating of 84 and you won 70-0. I'll continue to monitor however.

[ryby6969]

That 190 pound QB has a BTK rating of 84 and you won 70-0. I'll continue to monitor however.

And a truck rating of 66.

[JeffHCross]

Which is weird. His Elusiveness rating is 92, so it sounds like it was just playing the wrong animation for some reason. With ratings like that I would expect him to be able to break some tackles though.

[ryby6969]

Which is weird. His Elusiveness rating is 92, so it sounds like it was just playing the wrong animation for some reason. With ratings like that I would expect him to be able to break some tackles though.

What was bad was the fact that their 99 overall HB had 0 broken tackles but the QB was running over people and shedding tacklers all game. He rarely went down on first contact, luckily though my defense was swarming to him after the first drive so it ended up not being a problem.

[JeffHCross]

Sometimes the game just does some weird shit. Like 99 CAR HBs that drop the ball. :dunno:

[Papa LoneStar]

Sometimes the game just does some weird shit. Like 99 CAR HBs that drop the ball. :dunno:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/daddy2002/SSTravisBlount_zps2c11af47.png

*waves*

:D

[JeffHCross]

Bite me

:D

[ryby6969]

So, what are everyone's feelings on pass defense with the sliders? Just seems like it is either a pick or a completed pass right now. Just wondering what everyone else thinks.

[Oneback]

Tex and I just finished our game with a 58% completion rate on 74 passes, there were 4 interceptions, I know the two I threw deserved to be picked - my goal is a 57% completion rate.

[ryby6969]

Tex and I just finished our game with a 58% completion rate on 74 passes, there were 4 interceptions, I know the two I threw deserved to be picked - my goal is a 57% completion rate.

Hmmm, me and Dawg finished our game and there were 11 incomplete passes total and 7 were picks. Last game vs Razor it was crazy too. Guess I will see how it goes against Papa next, lol.

[Papa LoneStar]

I love it in the cpu game....I actually benched some WRs due to butterfingers....but in user game's....I agree with Ryby's stance....but the user game's have been VERY fun for me.

[JeffHCross]

I definitely have my share of drops, and pass deflections on defense. It does seem to happen more often against the CPU than another user, but I'm fairly happy with where the passing game is now. It is strange that it seems to be legitimately different in User/User games though.


Tex and I just finished our game with a 58% completion rate on 74 passes, there were 4 interceptions, I know the two I threw deserved to be picked - my goal is a 57% completion rate.While I completely support stat-based goals ... 57% for who? Us? In just user games or in general? The lowest completion percentage among the top 40 in pass efficiency last season was 58%. Only one other was below 60. 62% of the Top 40 in passing efficiency threw above 65%. And, frankly, all of our quarterbacks should be in the Top 40, if not the Top 20.

Better yet ... why 57%? That number seems to be out of nowhere.

Despite the changes, we still hold the Top 11 spots in Completion % (Ohio State's QB doesn't qualify in yardage for the Dynasty Wire list). But we also hold the Top 6 spots in Interceptions thrown. At this point I don't know how we're going to get the first number to go down without the second number rising. At least with the CPU as pathetic as they are, on this difficulty level.

[Oneback]

I definitely have my share of drops, and pass deflections on defense. It does seem to happen more often against the CPU than another user, but I'm fairly happy with where the passing game is now. It is strange that it seems to be legitimately different in User/User games though.

While I completely support stat-based goals ... 57% for who? Us? In just user games or in general? The lowest completion percentage among the top 40 in pass efficiency last season was 58%. Only one other was below 60. 62% of the Top 40 in passing efficiency threw above 65%. And, frankly, all of our quarterbacks should be in the Top 40, if not the Top 20.

Better yet ... why 57%? That number seems to be out of nowhere.

Despite the changes, we still hold the Top 11 spots in Completion % (Ohio State's QB doesn't qualify in yardage for the Dynasty Wire list). But we also hold the Top 6 spots in Interceptions thrown. At this point I don't know how we're going to get the first number to go down without the second number rising. At least with the CPU as pathetic as they are, on this difficulty level.

I mis spoke I believe my goal is 67%, I've got it all on my computer at home but haven't had the time to look at it in almost two weeks now - I put it in one of these threads if I remember correctly.

[ryby6969]

Mis-remembered huh?

[Oneback]

Mis-remembered huh?

Pretty much, I'm running on fumes at this point - I'd love nothing more than to sleep for a day or two straight.

[JeffHCross]

I mis spoke I believe my goal is 67%, I've got it all on my computer at home but haven't had the time to look at it in almost two weeks now - I put it in one of these threads if I remember correctly.Yeah, that sounds a looooooottttttttttt better.

That's also pretty close with your post of 64% from a couple weeks ago.

[Oneback]

Just looked at my notes.

My goals:
64% completion, we're at 72%
8.08 yds/att, we're at 11.99
2.59 td/int, we're at 2.09

I just dropped the HUM and CPU interception slider by 5, it won't come in play until next week however.

I'll look at the rushing stats later.

[Oneback]

To answer the question on how I came up with those stats, I took the average of the Top 25 teams from this last real life college football season.

I need to figure out how I can get the completion percentage down as right now everyone is 66+, 2 are 80+ with 6 in the 70's.

[gschwendt]

I need to figure out how I can get the completion percentage down as right now everyone is 66+, 2 are 80+ with 6 in the 70's.
I hope not wr catch... I was getting pissed when my 95cth WR dropped three consecutive wide open passes to start the game.

[texacotea]

Something has to be done about these drops. Had way to many against Kia and they all were at times that were needed. Really changes the way a drive/game is played when drops are like they are

[Oneback]

I understand the drops are frustrating, but in a real game incompletions are as well. NCAA as a series has done a piss poor job of replicating quarterback accuracy and defensive pass coverage. As a group even with the drops we are completing passes 8% higher than in real life, when we had less drops we were competing passes at an even higher rate meaning it was virtually impossible to play average defense without getting a turnover/selling out for a sack.

In order to bring balance to the game we're either going to have to view drops as inaccurate passes/pass deflections which may lead to more punts, etc or I can go back to where pass blocking is worse/raise the interception slider which will lead to more turnovers and have a direct effect on the score board.

In our game last night Snoop had one incompletion in the second half and completed 79.8% for the game while barely running the ball, I was happy with the way our first half went. I was able to make a few stops/he threw a few incompletions and with me being on the road my QB was rattled and it was hard to throw the ball consistantly due to drops, etc which I was fine with. In the second hald however everythng changed as we were both completing passes at a rediculous rate.

We all know passing in this game is extremely easy, there is hardly any disguise and we all know how to beat man/zone coverages. I don't know about everyone else but I don't really find it fun when the only way to make a defensive stop is to create a turnover or sell out for a sack, completing passes north of 75% as a group is a problem, I'd be happy with a 70% completion rate if we can get there.

I really hope some of these issues are addressed with the next version of NCAA however past experiences don't really give me much hope.

[psuexv]

I agree with this OB and I've actually said it somewhere before when I think Ryby mentioned the dropped INTs by his DBs, that the game does a bad job of a QBs inaccurate throws that we see all the time in real life from even the best QBs. Drops are completely frustrating but I do think it's the way to go. I think in the game Snoop and I played he had like 4 incompletions and threw for almost 600 yards. I don't think he has any super star WRs for those numbers to be that good.

The game Tommy and I played last night we both had a decent number of drops and yes some came at bad times. I remember specifically a 3rd and short pass where my TE ran a little curl and just dropped it but it happens (Wes Welker in the Super Bowl)

[psusnoop]

In my opinion the drops have to be a part of the game we play.

[texacotea]

I agree with drops, and why we need them. My issue is I have guys dropping wide open passes. Not to mention OB we had 31 drops in our game. 31......

drops dont bother me but when my WR with 80+ catch drops a ball with hardly anyone around its frustrating. Not to mention his DBs caught the ball better than my WR last night

[Oneback]

I agree with drops, and why we need them. My issue is I have guys dropping wide open passes. Not to mention OB we had 31 drops in our game. 31......

drops dont bother me but when my WR with 80+ catch drops a ball with hardly anyone around its frustrating. Not to mention his DBs caught the ball better than my WR last night

We had 31 incompletions, not drops, as far as interceptions I'm dropping that slider as well to get us right around the 2.5 TD:INT ratio I'm looking for. Even Jerry Rice dropped a few balls from time to time.

[texacotea]

Same difference. Just frustrating that things like that sway a game so much

[Oneback]

Same difference. Just frustrating that things like that sway a game so much

We had 31 incompletions on 74 attempts, a 58% completion percentage, we've both got good defenses, to be honest I'd expect a sub 64% completion percentage against 99 OVR defenses. The very next week Snoop completed 79.8% against me and I 73% against him. Again, I understand drops are frustrating, the game is frustrating, so I ask would you rather have drops or interceptions? If your answer is neither would you like to not be able to play defense then?

I understand a lot of things slider wise have changed this season but in the end I think they are for the better, we've still got a ways to go I agree, but I hope everyone feels the way I do and the game needs to be more balanced. Incompletions are a part of football, they are frustrating, heartbreaking, etc, etc, etc when they happen no matter the down, distance, or consequences but they happen.

If as a group we were completing passes at 60% for the season I'd be a little more concerned, however there are only so many things I can do to create an incompletion without it being an interception - as a group we are completing passes at a rate that would shatter the record books, I understand we've all got 90+ OVR QB's but there needs to be a ceiling, right now we are three floors above what our ceiling should be.

[psusnoop]

We had 31 incompletions on 74 attempts, a 58% completion percentage, we've both got good defenses, to be honest I'd expect a sub 64% completion percentage against 99 OVR defenses. The very next week Snoop completed 79.8% against me and I 73% against him. Again, I understand drops are frustrating, the game is frustrating, so I ask would you rather have drops or interceptions? If your answer is neither would you like to not be able to play defense then?

I understand a lot of things slider wise have changed this season but in the end I think they are for the better, we've still got a ways to go I agree, but I hope everyone feels the way I do and the game needs to be more balanced. Incompletions are a part of football, they are frustrating, heartbreaking, etc, etc, etc when they happen no matter the down, distance, or consequences but they happen.

If as a group we were completing passes at 60% for the season I'd be a little more concerned, however there are only so many things I can do to create an incompletion without it being an interception - as a group we are completing passes at a rate that would shatter the record books, I understand we've all got 90+ OVR QB's but there needs to be a ceiling, right now we are three floors above what our ceiling should be.

Well said, this is pretty much how I feel. Yes a key third down drop hurts but it happens. I'd rather the drop then an INT that can completely change a game.

[ryby6969]

I have a serious question. Why did we switch the sliders? Was it for cpu games or for user games? Because as it stands, I think for user games it played better with the old sliders. Just wondering.

[Oneback]

The simple answer is that we changed for both. It playing better on heisman goes against what I've heard from others. I think the reason you believe it played better on heisman is because we weren't talking about it. I don't have my stats any more from previous seasons but by stats alone they actually played worse/easier.

[ryby6969]

That is funny because everyone I have talked too about it thought user games played better before. Agree to disagree I guess.

[JeffHCross]

That is funny because everyone I have talked too about it thought user games played better before. Agree to disagree I guess.We're also basing "played better" on a very limited sample size. When I played against you, you had very strong feelings about the sliders, and it was only your first user game. I think defense was, largely, better on the Heisman sliders. I prefer defensive games. So I don't enjoy the user games now as much. That said, they're largely competitive, so they're not bad by any means. My game against Razor tonight was competitive to the last second.

I certainly do not feel as strongly about it, one way or the other, as you do.

[ryby6969]

We're also basing "played better" on a very limited sample size. When I played against you, you had very strong feelings about the sliders, and it was only your first user game. I think defense was, largely, better on the Heisman sliders. I prefer defensive games. So I don't enjoy the user games now as much. That said, they're largely competitive, so they're not bad by any means. My game against Razor tonight was competitive to the last second.

I certainly do not feel as strongly about it, one way or the other, as you do.

I would kill for some defense in a user game right now. I have played 3 straight user games and the lowest yardage total has been just under 900 yards of offense. You just played a game that had almost 1,100 yards of offense. For us worrying so much about "realism", we are not even close to attaining it with the numbers being put up right now. Again, agree to disagree.

[JeffHCross]

I would kill for some defense in a user game right now.I fully agree. Don't disagree on that.

Again, agree to disagree.OB's the one talking realism. Not me :D

[ryby6969]

I fully agree. Don't disagree on that.
OB's the one talking realism. Not me :D

Not singling anyone out. I understand wanting it to be "realistic" to a certain extent but I do not think we should compromise the enjoyment of playing the game for it. That is just my own personal opinion on it. I had no problem with how the game has played for the most part up until this season. I really have no clue what happened between our game and my last 3, but there has been no defense after a very good defensive game that we had. I could not stop Papa at all. He could run and throw at will, did not matter what I called. He only really stopped me when I had a few dropped passes in big spots. I even lost my QB and my backup came in and threw for almost 400 yards, lol.

[JeffHCross]

He could run and throw at will, did not matter what I called.He also has the all-OVR team :D

[texacotea]

Snoop threw for over 600 against me with his backup

[ryby6969]

He also has the all-OVR team :D

Very true, be even he will admit that he is not the most polished of passers and he had 2 incomplete passes, 1 of them went right to my defender and he dropped it. The other I believe was a drop by his receiver if I am not mistaken. It ended up being on of those games in the first quarter you could tell was going to be all offense. I was also not able to get any pressure on his QB. Add in home field after he got up by 24 points, and it was just one of those games you cannot even get mad at, lol. The only time I got mad was when my TE dropped what could have been a long TD pass on 3rd and inches. After the game Papa even said it was laughable because he was just hoping to try and keep me from getting the TD. :D 6'7" TE on a 5'11" safety is usually a matchup you like, lol. Oh well, hopefully we can get everything balanced out.

[JeffHCross]

Yeah, I've had a couple "all offense" games this year. The one against Papa was all offense until the second half. Tonight's against Razor was all offense except the 3rd quarter. I'm not saying the defense isn't bad. It is. But we also need to keep in mind who we're playing with and who we're playing against. On the face of it, my guys having eleven drops tonight is horrible. But I know the ratings of those WRs, and only two (of the 11) of them surprised me. The offense has a decided advantage on the defense. We know that. The passing game seems to have an advantage over running -- though this isn't always true.

C'est la vie.

[Oneback]

Not singling anyone out. I understand wanting it to be "realistic" to a certain extent but I do not think we should compromise the enjoyment of playing the game for it. That is just my own personal opinion on it. I had no problem with how the game has played for the most part up until this season.

I'm not trying to single you out, but since you brought it up...you've voiced your complaints every season with the way the game played, mostly after losses and even quit the OD for 30 minutes becuase you weren't enjoying the way the game played.

[Oneback]

I have a serious question. Why did we switch the sliders? Was it for cpu games or for user games? Because as it stands, I think for user games it played better with the old sliders. Just wondering.

To better answer this question, we switched to varisty sliders because it offers more range. With Heisman I was basically working in the 30-70 range with each slider before things got rediculous one way or another, additionally with Heisman safety play was atrocious. In initial research I noticed people saying Varsity played to the ratings, my tests backed this up and gave me the full slider range to make changes. In building the sliders I used default rosters, looking back we'd probably be a little further along if I had used teams of our caliber, with that said however there's a lot more testing that can be done by 12 people playing games than me in my free time. I'll admit I over compensated to some of the complaints early in the season which made the game play much easier than where we started instead of moving towards the goals I set for these sliders.

We'll get to where it needs to be, I don't think we'll ever get to a 64% completion percentage as a group becasue as you've said playability/fun is still paramount.

[ryby6969]

I'm not trying to single you out, but since you brought it up...you've voiced your complaints every season with the way the game played, mostly after losses and even quit the OD for 30 minutes becuase you weren't enjoying the way the game played.

I never quit because I did not like the way the game played. I quit because I had a user game thrown upon me at the last minute and did not have time to replay it after a disco and you told me I needed to go on auto. I had allot of things going on at the time, including a mother that had just been diagnosed with cancer. Snoop can attest to this as I had a conversation with him as it went on.

As for the current sliders, as has been said it is what it is.

[Oneback]

I'm not trying to start an argument over this but the fact remains you've complained about the way the game plays every season, then to say yesterday you've been happy with it up to this season contradicts what you've said in the past so which is it?

Again, I understand there are problems and I am working to make the game more balanced, being on Varsity gives me more flexibility, we'll get to where we need to be. Keep bringing the critisim but I ask that it be in the form of constructive feedback as right now it just seems as though your complaining, especially since every complaint seems to come after a game you've lost.

[Oneback]

A little stats update now that we've finished the regular season:

Team Passing Season (User Total):

CMP - 2,970
ATT - 4,232
YDS - 47,196
CMP% - 70%
YDS/A - 11.15
TD - 472
INT - 230
TD:INT - 2.05

Over the last 3-4 weeks of the season:

CMP - 897
ATT - 1,362
YDS - 12,776
CMP% - 66%
YDS/A - 9.38
TD - 123
INT - 63
TD:INT - 1.95

Team Rushing Season (User Total):

ATT - 4,900
YDS - 25,037
AVG - 5.11
TD - 344
YPG - 173.87
YAC - 7,387
20+ - 237
BTK - 757
FUMB - 97

Observations/Changes:

Other than the amount of interceptions I like where we're at so I've dropped the interception slider 10 points for both CPU and User. I'm going to keep the sliders where they're at through the early part of next season to see where we're at - I may tweak the interception slider a bit depending on how things are trending.

As for the concern over drops, there were only six players that had more than 10 drops on the season, Michigan was bitten by the drops more than any other team, however on the flip side there were two teams where no player had more than 3 drops.

Averages for the six players:

Drops - 14
CTH Rating - 85.3
SPC Rating - 84.2
CIT Rating - 82.3

The outlier is Michigan's Tim Pittman, who had 14 drops with ratings of 95 CTH, 89 SPC, 95 CIT, take him out of the group and the averages become:

Drops - 14
CTH Rating - 83.4
SPC Rating - 83.2
CIT Rating - 79.8

I can't explain why Tim Pittman dropped as many balls as he did, possibly poor timing on throws to him, but I'm not surprised to see an increased number of drops given the above averages.

[gschwendt]

I chalked my drops up to having a QB with lower THA... most teams had 90+ THA but my starter was at 86. Granted a lot of those drops by Pittman were wide open, easy catches, I can still let it slide because of my QB. Next season should be a different story, though Pittman won't be around to test the theory.

[JeffHCross]

FWIW, I've been playing around with our current sliders in Play Now games, and I haven't had an easy game yet. Lost more than I've won. So I definitely see where OB was going with this, I think our teams are just too good, and the CPU too bad, to work for us.

[Escobar]

Sliders play differently in Play Now and Practice than they do in OD games.

[JeffHCross]

Sliders play differently in Play Now and Practice than they do in OD games.Yeah, I know they do, or at least it's claimed they do (which is utterly ridiculous). But there's also a drastic difference between what I can use on the default roster and what we have now.

Though, something to be said though ... there's a lot of random variable calculations going on in the background of every game. If you played the same game multiple times, whether in an OD or Play Now, you'd probably get fairly drastically different results. So sample size is really important when judging how the game plays.

[Papa LoneStar]

I've noticed some of my WR drops happened when I've zipped a ball instead of putting touch....not sure if it's just my mind creating that theory....but with my 99 throwing power QB this past season....I would be very pleased if that was a reason.

[JeffHCross]

I concur, Papa. Certain routes and throws have led to more drops for me, even before these changes.