What would you do?

[texacotea]

Up 20-18 in the 4th with 4:30 left in the game

on your own 34yrd line. 4th and 1.

What do you do?

[psusnoop]

Just for those that didn't see or look at the Week 9 discussions, I'll give a little recap.

I was winning 20-18 with 4 minutes and 50 seconds remaining in the game. I was held on a 3rd and 18, I came up a yard short. Knowing that the easiest thing to do would be to just punt and play defense. I had forced OSU to 4fg's in the redzone already, so I knew my defense was playing well when backed up but I was giving up the deep ball it seemed at will to OSU. I thought for just a split second to come out and run a fake punt run here on my 34yd line. I saw that he was in punt safe return (know idea if zone or man), but I only had 2 timeouts so I figured screw it I'll run the play. If it fails, I'll go back to playing D and see what happens. Well, as you can tell from the video from the Web there was a huge hole and my guy got the first down easily but should have been tackled at some point but the defenders were pulled away from the runner. This allowed me to score the TD and go up 9 with 4 minutes and 46 seconds left to go in the game. OSU has 3 timeouts remaining and lots of time, but instead Tex just threw 3 deep balls and punted then while on defense the rest of the game he was moving defenders away from the ball carrier so I ran out of bounds a few times to not score and then put on chew clock with under 1:50 remaining in the game.

Yes running a fake punt sucks if the team running it converts it against you. But the game clearly wasn't in either of our hands and was still clearly up for grabs. I'm sorry if I've created any hard feelings Tex, that is/was never the intention.

[Oneback]

That's a tough one only because I know how much it hurts to lose on an unexpected play but I've been stopped on fake punts just as many times as I've had success with them. College coaches by nature are aggressive - see Les Miles or Bob Stoops. In the end I don't really have a problem with it, it seems as though Snoop had a thought process behind it - with 5 minutes left, run it on the off chance it works, if not play defense and leave yourself enough time to make a comeback if you give up a score.

[souljahbill]

I'm not in the league but I have no beef with that. I don't think there are rules regarding fake punts/field goals anyway. The best time to call them is when it's totally unexpected.

[psuexv]

That's a tough one only because I know how much it hurts to lose on an unexpected play but I've been stopped on fake punts just as many times as I've had success with them. College coaches by nature are aggressive - see Les Miles or Bob Stoops. In the end I don't really have a problem with it, it seems as though Snoop had a thought process behind it - with 5 minutes left, run it on the off chance it works, if not play defense and leave yourself enough time to make a comeback if you give up a score.

yeah I agree OB. I ran one against NYkia last year and he stuffed me. I'd have to watch the video to be sure where I was but it was 3rd quarter I think and I came up short on 3rd down. I think I was still in my territory if not close to midfield.

I think I'd have more of an issue with it if Snoop came out and actually ran a play. For some reason the Fake Punt is hit or miss so I think it's ok.

I'd have more of a problem if someone was up 3 TDs and there was around a minute to go and the losing team stuffs a 1st down run but doesn't call a Timeout and concedes the loss but the winning team comes out 4 wide and throws the ball. :whistle:

[gschwendt]

I'm personally not a fan of the Fake Punt Run but then again I'm also not a fan of a 3rd & 1 FB dive. You can know exactly what's coming, do your best to call a play to stop it, but the majority of the time it still seems to work. I just accept that they'll be called from time to time though and go on. So long as someone only does either of them once a game or so, I can handle it.

All that said, there's still the opportunity to make a stop after he converted.


And just for the record, not that it's intended as scripture, but here's what we've had in SBCOL for practically forever:

4th Down:
You are allowed to attempt to convert a 4th down only in the following circumstances:
-Anytime you are inside your opponents 40 yard line
-Anytime its 4th and 2 or less
-Anytime in the last 2 minutes of the first half for either team
-Anytime in the fourth quarter and you are losing by 10 points or more


Teams may make one fake punt attempt per game as long as they are past their own 35 yard line and it is 4th down and 10 or less. Teams MAY NOT run a fake punt unless they are across their own 35, no matter the distance. You may still go for it if the previous stated punting rules are not broken even if you are not past your 35 yard line, but you may not run a fake punt.

[texacotea]

My biggest issue with it is that it was late, his D was playing good. No reason to run it. I had a thought he would maybe fake it and then went to fake punt zone or whatever the heck it is. To come up with a stop as big as that late in the game with a chance to maybe win it all to be thrown away because of garbage fake.

If you werent so deep in your own territory it wouldnt have been that big of deal but first thing that comes to mind is hes on his 34 hes going to punt. And yes I did move my defenders away and I also told you I was done with that game.

There is no hard feelings I just dont like the call and never will because of you being inside your 40yrd line

[Papa LoneStar]

I would've punted....but it would've been VERY tough to wonder what if. I've been burned too many times for being over-aggressive so that would've won out. If I was on D....I would've lined up in goalline and accepted a potential punt wherever it landed. I have no problem with it.

[Deuce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42iiCcFbxE

[ryby6969]

I would go for it if I had the balls to in that situation, but I don't! :(

[Oneback]

I would go for it if I had the balls to in that situation, but I don't! :(

Same, I wouldn't have the balls to call it - especially with the way momentum is setup. If the defense makes a stop there they get all the momentum and probably score to win the game. I personally would've punted but as I always do I'd think long and hard about going for it.

[psusnoop]

I'll add this as well since I've not seen it posted. If I think a team is going to fake run (fake pass has about 2% chance of completing it) then I'm calling punt block. No way they are running past my guys.

Thanks guys for the constructive feedback and honest opinions on the play and situation.

Again Tex no hard feelings.

[texacotea]

oh no, none at all. I was pretty pissed when it happened (as you seen) we will agree to disagree.

just sucks I have 2 losses one on a hail mary at the end of the game and the other on ultimately a fake punt

[razorback44]

I would go for it if I had the balls to in that situation, but I don't! :(
Me either. I punted on 4th and 3 in a game last night down 21-17 with 3 minutes left in the game. Perfect time to go for it but I played it straight and punted because I had three timeouts left and my defense was playing lights out. I never got the ball back. :fp:

[psusnoop]

I have to put this out there. I'm watching the Oregon vs Arizona game and its 2nd quarter with 2:58 and counting. It's 10-0 Oregon over Arizona thus far and facing a 4th and 2 from their 34yd line and the Ducks and Chip Kelly come out in Shot-Gun Normal and run a read option for a first down :)

Had to post this Tex :)

[gschwendt]

Just for discussion sake, lining up in a regular formation is considerably different from lining up in a punt formation. I have less of a problem lining up and just going for it.

[psusnoop]

Just for discussion sake, lining up in a regular formation is considerably different from lining up in a punt formation. I have less of a problem lining up and just going for it.

I was waiting for Tex to say that :)

I'm clearly just picking but when I saw that I had to post it here.

[texacotea]

Just for discussion sake, lining up in a regular formation is considerably different from lining up in a punt formation. I have less of a problem lining up and just going for it.

this in its entirity

[souljahbill]

Just for discussion sake, lining up in a regular formation is considerably different from lining up in a punt formation. I have less of a problem lining up and just going for it.

Why is that? I don't have a problem with it either way but why is lining up and going "better" then calling a fake punt?

[SmoothPancakes]

Why is that? I don't have a problem with it either way but why is lining up and going "better" then calling a fake punt?

I'm gonna guess probably because you know that it's coming when they straight up line up in an offensive formation, whereas with a fake punt, you don't know for sure until the ball is actually snapped, instead having to guess whether or not they're running a fake punt and make your play call based on your suspicions or gut feeling.

[JeffHCross]

Why is that? I don't have a problem with it either way but why is lining up and going "better" then calling a fake punt?

I'm gonna guess probably because you know that it's coming when they straight up line up in an offensive formationThis. Even if it's an I-Form FB Dive on 4th and 1, I'm still able to stomach that better than a Fake Punt, as stupid as it sounds.

Now, personally, you want to use a fake punt around the 40? Where it's a toss up anyway? I'm fine with that, because you've probably caught me in the wrong formation. But if you're going to go for it in a .... how shall we say "controversial" situation ... I'd rather you line up and declare your intentions from the get go.

[souljahbill]

I don't know guys, if someone is expecting a fake punt, what's the point of a fake punt? It's suppose to be a high risk/reward play. No offense to those who can't stomach it but that's kinda sensitive. Bases on the situation, Snoop decided to roll the dice and it was successful. Unless that fake punt is a cheese/money/will-work-100%-of-the-time play, I wouldn't have a problem at all if someone used it against me. Where's the strategy if we have to declare our intentions?

[psusnoop]

I gotta ask is a fake punt run that successful that its considered easy to accomplish? I've ran this probably 5 or so times and have only had success on the one. I have probably ran the fake fg about 3 times and been successful twice.

If I came out and lined up and went for it that straight up in an IForm FB dive this would have been a conversion 95% of the time easy.

Not sure why lining up in an offensive formation would make it more tolerable either, as that would be really cheesy IMO compared to going with a fake punt where I'm actually giving the defense a greater chance to get a turnover on downs.

[JeffHCross]

I don't know guys, if someone is expecting a fake punt, what's the point of a fake punt? It's suppose to be a high risk/reward play. No offense to those who can't stomach it but that's kinda sensitive.Like I said, for me it partly depends on the scenario. There are times and places where I don't think a fake punt is an acceptable call on offense, and I wouldn't want someone to call it on me if I'm on defense either.

And there's still plenty of strategy to be played even if you declare that you're going for it. Papa, and others that I've played while on headset, have straight up told me they were going for it in certain situations. Doesn't mean I have a clue what they're going to call.

I do applaud Snoop's cojones though. The only time I've called a fake punt on 13, my opponent called Punt Man and I decided to take a 5 yard penalty instead.