Everything Wrong W/ NCAA '13

[Dr Death]

I realize that there are threads about "Bugs & Glitches" and "Game Issues" but since Friday, 6 July, when the Early Release came out, Beartide06 - a fellow member on this site - and I have been compiling a list of all that is wrong w/ NCAA '13. We have done this for two simple reasons: first, because we are amazed that after last year's colossal failure of Biblical proportions, that EA could release a game this year w/ so many of the same flaws still in the game, but secondly, because when you have threads filled w/ all of these problems, it is easy for many problems to go unnoticed or simply overlooked and forgotten about. We - Beartide06 and I - feel that having one post w/ the numerous glitches/bugs/issues/problems would help to best serve the community and thus, make it easier for EA to recognize all the inherent problems that are plaguing this game. So w/ that in mind, it is our sincere hope that this thread NOT be shutdown, but rather be looked at as a way to get all the issues in one, easy-to-read post.

Lets begin w/ the basic Game-play issues, most of which have been in EA football games for years...

Can't See The Sideline - When on offense you, the QB, cannot see the sideline{s}. If you're on one hash you can - barely - see the WR on the sideline of the hash you're on, but no way can you see the other sideline. And let's face it, when you can't see the sideline, you can't throw to the receiver because that would be a blind pass. So, w/ this problem still present in the game, it forces you to condense your offense. Now the CPU has no problem "seeing" the entire field, but it's horribly unrealistic and a very fatalistic mistake that we, the one's playing the game, are so limited when trying to play the game of football. Now there will be some who will say - 'You can always roll out to see the sidelines' and they would be correct. However, you also greatly increase your odds of getting sacked. So again, a massive unrealistic problem that has plagued the game for years is still present.

The Dead Arm - New to NCAA '13 is this dreaded thing where your RB, WR or TE will be running and lo & behold, his arm holding the ball will sit on his hip, looking like it's completely lifeless. How do they get the programming so wrong for this and more importantly, how did this slip past the people that make the game? Not only does this significantly take away any shot of something realistic, it looks horribly corrupt. Did EA decide to make a half-breed of football and zombies? Because that's what this dead-arm glitch looks like: Zombies playing football. :fp:

Tipped Passes - Great in theory, poor in execution. I've had several passes get tipped, only to have the defense scoop the ball OFF THE GROUND and yet it is considered an "interception." Even when challenging the play - AND SEEING THE BALL ACTUALLY DISAPPEARING INTO THE GRASS BEFORE THE DEFENDER GETS HIS HANDS ON IT - the CPU still gets the ball as an interception.

Replays Don't Always Show - Anytime there's a fumble and it's questionable whether he actually did fumble the ball, the ref will say the play is under review, but you won't see it. How & Why??? :fp:

Intentional Grounding - The CPU can throw the ball away whilst in the pocket and never get called for Int. Grounding, even w/ that penalty slider set to 100. :fp:

Jailbreak Screen/ WR Mid Screen - This play worked perfectly last year. This year, not so much. I only use this as an audible, because when playing on Heisman if you call this in the huddle, the D always comes out in Man, at least in my experience. But even as an audible - which I would use about 4-6 times a game last year and now use it MAYBE once a game this year, suddenly the DE on the side the pass is going to knows it's coming, despite the fact that I haven't called it at all in that game, and he will not rush the QB and will instead stand in the path between the QB and WR. In one plus season's I've had this play work for more than 10 yards exactly one time. Usually it's broken up or goes for a -1 yard loss. The play worked perfectly last year, so why neuter it this year? :fp:

Dumbed Down Defenders - Too many times a defender will stand and watch as a guy runs right by him. It makes me wonder if the folks at EA have ever watched a real life college football game. Because if they have - and I have to assume they have - then how can you release a game where defenders behave as they do in this game? I understand that programming a football game is difficult, but when you cannot program something as basic as seeing a guy w/ the ball coming your way and making the proper move to get in line to tackle or attempt to tackle the guy, then what hope is there that other parts of the game are going to be correct? This is basic, fundamental football and it is atrociously flawed.

Tackles Will Leave The DE Unblocked - This happens - again - far too often. Your RT or LT will just leave the DE unblocked and he will come free to your QB and apply the kill shot. Once or twice in a few games is acceptable. As often as it happens in this game? Not.

CPU Draw Glitch - Yes, this has been noted many times the past few weeks, but again, how does this happen? The CPU will hand off to the RB in a draw play out of the Shot-Gun formation and as soon as the RB touches the ball, the whistle is blown and the play is over. I personally haven't had this happen to me because I don't run draw plays from Shot-Gun, but others have. And this begs the question: HOW DOES THIS MAKE IT PAST THE GUYS MAKING THIS GAME???

Game Freezes For A Split Second - After nearly every play, the game will freeze for a split second, usually just at the end of the play. This was prevalent in NCAA '08 and it is back in '13. Boggles the mind that this micro-freeze is back.

Diving - It doesn't matter if it's a user controlled player or the CPU, trying to dive to make a tackle is an exercise in futility. It never works, it never alters the guy running w/ the ball, and it is totally and completely useless. So why is it in the game? Not only is it totally useless, it looks fake and *** as all hell. In real life, a defender diving can trip a guy up - but not in this game. So either get it right or take it out altogether.

Pursuit Angles - This was heavily touted as being improved in last year's game - or maybe it was '11 - but this year, it's gone. Unless you change Speed Threshold drastically, which is something that shouldn't be in the game anyway. In real life DT's should not be able to run down WR's, so why is there a Speed Threshold to begin with? All I know is that Pursuit Angles are terrible and need - once again - to be fixed.

CPU QB Throwing Off Balance W/ Great Accuracy - Now I thought EA bragged about how the QB could no longer throw off balance w/ accuracy??? Yet in this year's game, I have seen two QB's throw while being in completely unrealistic positions, and they've thrown perfectly accurate passes. Case in point # 1: While playing in my :Kansas: dynasty against :Kansas_State: last season, the :Kansas_State: QB was scrambling to his right w/ three defenders in hot pursuit. He came to a dead stop, jumped and while falling backwards threw a 24 yard bullet to a guy in the middle of the field for a TD. Of course, I lost that game, 21-24. Second time it happened was year two of my :Kansas: dynasty against :Georgia_Tech: and their QB - a right-hander - was running to his left full speed, turned on a dime and threw an 18 yard bullet to his TE, hitting him right between the numbers, all the while the QB was again falling backwards when he threw AND was throwing against his body! It would be so nice if when EA came out and said something was no longer in the game that it was actually, ya know, a true statement. And for those of you who play on-line a lot and hate the cheesers, all you have to do is thank EA, because their very game promotes cheesing!

CPU No-Huddle O-Line - So many times when running the no-huddle, the CPU linemen will line up in ways that looks like a total cluster fuck. I mean, this looks like a Chinese fire drill gone horribly awry. How can they not get another basic functionality of football correct?

Fumbles Picked Up But Play Is Called Dead - You've all had it happen, someone fumbles the ball on your team, another guy on your team recovers the ball while still in an upright position, yet the play is called dead, not unlike the Draw Play mentioned above.

DB Play On WR's - I've seen this happen to me and to the CPU... the DB will be in perfect position on the WR, then he will either hit an invisible brick wall and come to a dead stop or he will dart away from the receiver, allowing him to catch an easy TD. Once again, a basic and simple part of football is screwed up beyond belief.

WR's Not Even Trying To Catch Ball - It was in last year's game and it's back again this year. The dreaded zombie receiver will be looking right at the QB, see the ball coming his way and... nothing. The ball just hits him smack in the facemask. Unlike last year when this happened a lot, this year it tends to only happen on crucial third or fourth downs late in the game when you are trailing.

OL/DL Interaction - Really? If you take over a DT, 99 times out of 100 the first thing that happens after the ball is snapped is your guy will fall to the ground. The OL/DL interaction needs a complete and total overhaul. It is beyond laughable how poorly executed this is and has been for years. It is also inexcusable that it is nearly impossible to generate any type of pass rush at all w/ just four down linemen and this is why so many resort to blitzing. Another unbelievable failure is that height and weight don't matter on the line, as evidenced by the 5'5" 150 pound linemen videos on You Tube and how easily those little guys handle their defensive counterparts who out weigh them by 150 pounds and stand five to eight inches taller than them.

Pass Coverage - We all know that Zones are basically useless in the game and can be exploited ridiculously, but there are also times when the CPU is in Man and the coverage is just too over-powered. There are hints of the Psychic DB's still in the game when in Man. I've also seen - albeit only once - a DT drop into a Zone coverage, leap about five feet into the air and snare a pass for an interception and then run like a combination of Jim Brown, Earl Campbell and Walter Payton for a touchdown. Here's where this gets downright silly... the DT was their left DT, which means he was over my right guard. I was in 5-Wide w/ Trips to the left, and my inside receiver on the trips - or left side - was running a skinny post. Yet the DT managed to drop back into coverage around 15 yards, leap into the air and pick off the pass. There is no defensive tackle in the history of football capable of such a move, especially considering the fact that my QB threw the ball in less than 2.0 seconds from the time the ball was snapped. So, what I am getting at here is that Pass Coverage is another thing that needs to be completely and totally revamped. An absolute and total overhaul is desperately needed.

CPU Clock Management - The clock management w/ the CPU is beyond atrocious. It doesn't matter if it's a team that runs the No-Huddle or a team that runs a Pro Style offense, they always snap the ball somewhere around the :28-:30 second mark. I've seen CPU drives that are 10 plays for 75 yards and yet only take 1:37 off the clock. This is yet another thing that EA seems to not be able to comprehend; teams use clock management. They know how to take time off the clock. So why is it so difficult for EA to implement this properly in the game? Is it because so many people play 5:00 minute quarters? Does EA not realize that some of us play 10:00 minute quarters and others play as much as 15:00 minute quarters. Bottom line; the CPU needs to have better clock management and implement it throughout the game, not just in the final 3:00 minutes when the CPU is winning.

CPU Receivers Run Out Of Bounds - A couple years ago EA bragged about how the CPU "awareness" for WR's, TE's and RB's would be better and when catching the ball near the sideline, instead of running directly out of bounds they would now head up-field. In NCAA '13, they are back to running right out of bounds. I've seen it kill many drives for the CPU. And it makes the game terribly unrealistic.

Timeouts - The CPU always calls a timeout w/ 1:00 left in the half or a game. Why is this still present in the game???

Recruiting Pitches Change - So I am in the :Big_12: conference and so is :Baylor:, yet when recruiting, my Conference Prestige is A- while for :Baylor: it is a B+. I've also seen certain pitches change from recruit to recruit. One recruit I will have a B+ for Coaching Prestige, the next guy it will be a B- for the same exact pitch. Again... how does this make it in the final version???

Crowd Noise - This year EA bragged about how they went to numerous stadiums and recorded the crowds and that crowd noise would sound "authentic" in this year's game. Yet the crowd's sound worse this year than any year I can think of. Example: Playing as :Kansas: at :Oklahoma: in year one of my dynasty, for nearly three full quarters I was winning this game. Up 20-14 and driving, their crowd was as silent as a church mouse. At their 3 yard line my WR fumbles the ball and an :Oklahoma: player scoops it up and goes 97 yards for a TD, giving them a 21-20 lead. I get the ball back on offense and... the crowd was dead. Now in real life if something like this was happening - an underdog upsetting the # 1 ranked team in the country - and the # 1 team finally took the lead late in the game, the crowd would be going insane and would be doing all they could to rattle the road team. But not in this game.

And despite EA's claim that crowds would sound "better" and "more authentic" they actually sound worse this year than anytime in the game's history. It blows my mind that they can boast about something and yet get it wrong and this happens all the time w/ this crew.

Commentary - We all know and agree that the commentary is grossly outdated, but there are so many times when what the announcers say just doesn't make any sense. Example: I hit a WR over the middle completely wide open... nearest defender is at least 5 yards away, if not more. Yet Herbstreit will say this: "This quarterback has got to be more careful. He can't keep throwing into traffic like that..." Really? There's also the "This quarterback has a lot of faith in his receivers, even when he's a little off target he feels they can go up and make the catch." And yet... the ball will have hit the WR right in the chest, right between his numbers!

Studio Updates - Another "good idea in theory" but poorly implemented. Same old stuff said over and over. AND... about 97% of the time the studio update is some massive upset. :Arkansas_State: beating :Oregon: on the road? Check. :Western_Kentucky: beating :Alabama: on the road? Check. :Wake_Forest: beating :Georgia: on the road? Check. And on and on and on... Once again, EA proves they have no middle ground. It's always all or nothing w/ them.

Disguising Coverage - Horribly implemented. If a defense wants to disguise coverage they may show Cover 2 and switch to Cover 3, or they may show blitz, then back off into a Zone. There are a number of ways defenses disguise coverage, and showing Man every single play ain't one of them. Seriously EA???

Drive Charts - I know that not all get into this, but there are many of us who do. We write down stats, keep track of drive charts, and yet, in this game, the drive charts are totally screwed up. I go on a 75 yard drive that takes 13 plays and 6:33 off the clock and yet it will say something like: 11 plays - 58 yards - 4:13. How can they not get simple math correct??? Also, if you intercept a pass and then go on a scoring drive, the interception will be counted as part of the scoring drive. Again... really???

Scheduling - My first year in my dynasty had 20 teams playing 11 games. T-W-E-N-T-Y!!! Since this was a problem last year, how did they NOT fix this???

Automated Names - I've been using automated names and I see the same names popping up over and over. Especially Holycross! Really? Is this something EA did for Jeff H{oly} Cross??? :D I mean come on EA, open up a fucking phone book and get some more names. How hard can this be??? Right now I have two Gray's and three Holycross' on my team. Perhaps I am recruiting from the same families but it sure seems pretty lame to me.

DB's Stopping In Mid-Play - I've seen this gem on both my team as well as the CPU. The CB/S will have the WR covered, then, just as the pass is arriving it's like the DB hits a brick wall and just completely comes to a stop, allowing the WR to make the reception. That this is in the retail version is beyond absurd.

CPU Draws - We've all seen it... the CPU is down 17-23 w/ :47 to go at their own 44 yard line and facing a 3rd and 10 and what do they do? They call a draw play. And... to make it worse, most of these draws are blown dead immediately, w/ out the RB even being touched by a defender. And this somehow slips past the guys checking the game for quality issues???

Fatigue - Okay, now I am going to go off on a total rant, because what I am experiencing in the game is just maddening. First of all, apparently the fine folks at EA have no clue that football players workout year round and thus, are some of the best, most finely tuned athletes in the world. So we get shit like O-Linemen having Stamina of 62 or WR's w/ Stamina of 67. But here's where it gets even worse... in every game I have played in my :Kansas: dynasty, once the 4th quarter begins, my best WR's and both tackles will go into the yellow. Now keep in mind, at the end of the 3rd period they are all green. Yet during a timeout - change of quarters - they drop down to yellow! What... was walking down to the other side of the field something so intense it wore them out? And those players will stay yellow the entire 4th quarter. And it's always the three best WR's and the two Tackles.

Also... I've had guys in the yellow just before halftime. And following halftime they will still be yellow! Does EA not realize halftime is 20 minutes long? Does EA not realize that all players should be back to normal following halftime??? It's been this way for years and it's not real and it's totally ridiculous.

Scoop & Score - How many year's has this gem been in the game??? Your team fumbles, some 290 pound DT scoops it up and looks like a combination of Jim Brown, Earl Campbell and Walter Payton. He'll break tackle after tackle and score... yet when you get the ball back on offense, he's right back out there on defense. So apparently "fatigue" doesn't work for the CPU the same way it works {against} us!

Incorrect Offenses - Another grossly inaccurate thing that's 'In The Game.' The Run & Shoot is about 1% implemented and the Air Raid doesn't have the wide O-line splits like they do in real life. If you're going to brag about something being 'In The Game' can't you at least make some effort to back that statement up? For the love, EA... for the love...

No CPU Logic - The CPU never game-plans, never adjusts to what you're doing, never forces you to adjust. Nope, all the CPU does is cheat to gain a victory. It cracks me up that they came up w/ Season Showdown to 'promote good sportsmanship' and yet their very game defines cheese and cheating to sometimes absurd levels. Would it really be that difficult to program the game to where the CPU 'learns' what you're doing, makes adjustments and forces you to adjust? I mean, seriously, football is a game of adjustments. You hear this said a million times every Saturday and Sunday throughout the Fall and Winter... yet in this game it is non-existent.

HDR Lighting - Chalk this up to yet another 'good idea in theory, but poorly implemented' thing. Someone on OS posted a photo of a :Tennessee: player in the game and a :Tennessee: player in real life. In the game, their uniforms look like a faded, washed out mess. In real life, their orange is vibrant and filled w/ color. And while we're talking about uniforms, let's talk about team's w/ gold helmets and how horrible they look during night games. And we have HDR Lighting to thank for this mess. And yet again, despite numerous posts and photos to back up the many complaints about this, EA does nothing to fix it. Absolutely pathetic.

Tackling - I know that in real life, there are many players who just don't use proper form when tackling, but the few animations in the game of "bad tackling" look so silly and so horrible that all I can do is cringe every time I see it. Take the QB sack for an example. Your end or LBer comes blazing in to drive the QB into the ground and yet the QB starts some move that looks like something out of Michael Jackson's Thriller video and it's not until a second defender eventually comes along that the QB is taken down. And you see these stupid things happen all over the field. Once in a while you'll see a good, properly formed tackle, but for the love of God, come up w/ a new, less stupid looking animation for the bad form tackles.

QB Sacks/Incomplete Passes - And while we're talking QB sacks, let's talk about the many times a QB gets drilled, the ball falls out of his hand and is ruled incomplete. I've gone back and watched replays and every single time this should be a fumble. In almost two season's of dynasty it's been ruled a fumble exactly one time.

Here are some issues that don't have anything to do w/ game play, but nonetheless are broken and make this game very frustrating:

1/2 Sacks - My school - :Kansas: - had the record for career sacks at 17 if memory serves. In my second year a LBer recorded his 17th and a half sack... it said in his career stats this: Sacks - 17.5. And yet, in the School Records area, 17 was still the number. So 1/2 sacks count as stats, but not in the record book???

Socks - Oh yeah, I know someone on here who will absolutely love this one. I went in prior to season one in my dynasty and changed the socks on all my players to high. Playing as :Kansas: and having high white socks w/ their white pants just looks cool to me. But... after season one, all the players still on the team defaulted back to short socks. Which means that all you roster makers who spent time on this wasted your time. Thank you very much, EA!

Fans - We all agree that the fans look like total garbage and always have this gen. But this year, I've had times when on the road and I converted a key third down or fourth down and yet the other team's fans are shown cheering. :D You can't make this stuff up! Also, when they do show the fans, before the game and during a few cut scenes, they are all in an area that has SEATS!!! When about 97% of college stadiums have BENCHES!!! Or bleachers, as they're more formally known as. Of course, why would we expect EA to get the fans right when they have team's running out of tunnels that don't exist in some stadiums???

Replays - Choppy looking replays. Seven year's into this gen of games and we still see choppy replays?

Injured Players - During a game you will lose one of your guys to an injury - concussion, separated shoulder, etc... yet after the game, if you win, there he'll be cheering and looking perfectly healthy. Yeah, it's a minor thing but come on... it kills any hope of realism.

Drums - Is this just me or do the drums pound on and on between plays and right up until you snap the ball way too much this year? Fuck!!! If I want to listen to drums I'll crank up some Led-Zeppelin. A football game is NOT where I should be hearing the Hammer Of The Gods assaulting my senses. I've literally had them pounding - loudly and annoyingly - down to :02 on the play clock.

Shovel Pass - Now this is just too classic to leave out. EA came out this year w/ a Shovel animation and yet stated that an actual Shovel Pass is not in the game. Yet it is!!! This shows you how well they know their own game. And it's this kind of absurd crap that should be addressed and fixed, because when the people making the game don't even know their own game, something is very terribly wrong.

Bowl Game Trophy Celebrations - I thought EA claimed that this year you would see a trophy presentation for every Conference Championship and every Bowl win? Yet I won the :Insight_Bowl: and there was no trophy presentation. Of course, I've been told there's no trophy presentation for the National Championship either. :fp: And this from a company who uses Heisman Challenge as a key marketing point and yet has no Heisman presentation in the game. I mean... really??? Who is in charge of this series? Because the issues are massive and glaring and it blows me away that they keep putting the same old crap out year after year w/ no recourse or accountability.

CPU QB Completion % - In an era where a lot of team's pass the ball, I've seen the CPU guys hitting 12 of 40, 6 of 31, 11 of 29, 4 of 22 - and NO, I am NOT making these up. These are in the Studio Updates! I just don't get it. How can so many things be so broken?

After last year's colossal failure of Biblical proportions, one would think that they would have tightened things down and really delivered a great game. But they didn't. They gave us Heisman Challenge which is nothing more than Road To Glory, and they gave us total control passing, which in and of itself is completely flawed too. Momentum, weight, strength, none of these things matter. Heisman Challenge shows to anyone w/ eyes just how completely lazy EA is at making this game. So MANY of last year's flaws, bugs and issues are still present in the game and from what I have heard, on-line dynasties are still a total mess w/ freezing and other issues.

And it got me to thinking... is EA trying to faze out NCAA football? Because after last year's total cluster fuck of a game, any company that cared about their clientele or their product would have gotten up off their ass and delivered a TOP NOTCH GAME. But EA didn't. So... are they trying to just faze the game out? They had 100,000 less pre-orders this year, so if this is their intended goal, it is certainly working.

They spend money and resources on Community Day guys, yet when the guys get down there they are either told: We can't code that correctly OR This is how we're doing it. They totally ignore the feedback they are given! Why??? A week or so ago Jeff H Cross got mad at me for blaming things on QA... and I understood the nerve it touched w/ Jeff, but you have to realize people, EA has multiple boards like this one detailing all of their short-comings for them and yet they STILL fail to fix things. There is simply no excuse for that!

When I began writing this post - about a week ago - it was my intention to include everything wrong in the game. Yet that would be a nearly impossible task, as there are so many more things I haven't even covered. I just thought that seeing everything wrong in one post would hit people and would also, possibly, wake someone at EA up and maybe inspire them to get off their ass and do something about it. I rather doubt it will have an effect at all though. EA does whatever they want to do and they could really give a fuck about their customers.

I also realize that this post - lengthy as it is - may piss some people off. All I can say is you need to direct your anger at EA, not me or Beartide06. EA is lazy, they don't care about you or how "Sim" you want the game and they prove this every year. Thank God I got the game for free this year and they didn't rip me off for another $60.00 + tax. And now... we hear they're going to release "new uniforms" through a patch. And if you read between the lines, they're going to charge you for anything that is a "special" uniform this year.

How dare you, EA! How dare you put out a shitty product and then turn around and charge people for uniforms. After your lack of service the past two year's, the least you could do is not charge anyone a dime for these.

In summation, this game could be so amazing, yet laziness and a lack of knowledge of their own engine prevent that from happening and instead, only ensures a totally messed up, bug-filled game every year. And that is a shame, because a company that really wanted to deliver a great game, w/ all the resources EA has, could do so quite easily. Yet here we are... stuck w/ this mess yet again!

[beartide06]

I would like to thank DR DEATH on posting on behalf of me as it logs me out of the site about every 15 minutes, so thank you. Keep in mind folks, this is a VERY small amount of all the glitches and bugs in the game. I have a whole 5 pages worth of things in my notebook, some of which DR Death posted. Dr Death only had 2 pages worth of info. I found quite a few issues in online dynasty and RTG that I would post, but I would have to break it up.

To best sum up EA, I have come up with a very intriguing acronym for them; EA: Exuberantly Atrocious, it's in the game.

EDIT: Just going through my notes, I have another 52 points that DR Death didn't point out in our post. And yes, these are all MAJOR problems I have experienced personally, and things that are valid points to bring up.

[JeffHCross]

WARNING: RANT AHEAD


I've been using automated names and I see the same names popping up over and over. Especially Holycross! Really? Is this something EA did for Jeff H{oly} Cross??? I mean come on EA, open up a fucking phone book and get some more names. How hard can this be??? Right now I have two Gray's and three Holycross' on my team. Perhaps I am recruiting from the same families but it sure seems pretty lame to me.This was actually a feature introduced with NCAA Football 10 (http://www.pastapadre.com/2009/01/15/get-your-name-in-ncaa-football-2010). I'm sure it has a lot to do with me, since I submitted my name (and anyone else with my last name), but it is not because of any special connection (i.e. the Community Day trips) between me and EA.

For the record, EA has "open[ed] up the fucking phone book" and incorporated names from similar sources (not sure I can say which). It could be better, but at least you don't get team after team of Applewhites like you used to.


A week or so ago Jeff H Cross got mad at me for blaming things on QA... and I understood the nerve it touched w/ Jeff, but you have to realize people, EA has multiple boards like this one detailing all of their short-comings for them and yet they STILL fail to fix things. There is simply no excuse for that!I did not get mad at you blaming QA. I just said that blaming QA, and assuming QA can catch such things, is too simple of a finger to point. And, for the record, you were wrong on that one. ;)


How dare you, EA! How dare you put out a shitty product and then turn around and charge people for uniforms. After your lack of service the past two year's, the least you could do is not charge anyone a dime for these.DLC is DLC dude. If you're going to rant that DLC should be free, why stop there? Why not rant at every piece of DLC made by every company whose products did not live up to expectations?


this game could be so amazing, yet laziness and a lack of knowledgeUp above I said that I wasn't angry at you for blaming QA. THIS is what pisses me off. Assuming that they could do it, but they're too lazy or stupid. Again, I don't mean to target you, Dr. Death (or beartide, depending on who wrote this, it's not clear at this point in the post :D), but very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very little in software is as simple as "too lazy" or "too stupid". And I'm sick of it. In our last discussion about QA, I mentioned that I was boiling over -- well, here we are again. So I apologize in advance, but you've put your finger squarely on my biggest, brightest, hottest button.

My employer got hit with a Priority 1 problem today, reported to us via our customer. Their process is more formal, so they don't have to rely on message forums to get their customer feedback. This problem would be roughly equivalent to, oh, I don't know, NCAA failing to launch from the PS3 XMB after the August patch. Yet it got through our testing. Not just one person, but several. Repeatedly.

Here is a rough idea of what I think "the community" would say if EA made that level of a mistake:

OMG, EA IS SO FUCKING STUPID
How did those guys that go to the Days Inn miss this?
Tell those coders to get off their lazy asses
I bet TGT will say that they didn't see it.
OS either. Those guys are paid mouthpieces.
Who cares? Even if it did launch, it would still have all these bugs. Have they ever watched football?
If they didn't spend so much time on cannons, the game would still work.
Stupid
Stupid
Stupid
Lazy
Lazy
Lazy
Doesn't know football
Doesn't know football
Doesn't know football
I'm sick of it!

Is it inexcusable? Yes. All of it.
Is it simply unacceptable, as a consumer? Yes.
Am I happy about it? Hell no.
Do I feel some level of guilt about it, even though I had no direct impact on the product? Yes.

For the record, with those previous four statements I'm talking about my employer's problem; but the answers are the same for NCAA Football 13. Now, the situation with my employer is vastly different, both in scope, importance, and, probably most importantly, restitution. We'll have to jump through hoops because our customer holds the power, which is vastly different from EA and their customers. But mistakes can be made, even in the most professional environments, with people that have every intention of doing the job right, and work in companies that, in theory, have more than enough to throw at a given problem. Mistakes can be made, estimates can be wrong, resources can be misallocated, important people can leave at times of great impact, deadlines can come much quicker than anticipated and the resulting product can be lesser quality because of all those reasons and more.

I am not here to ask you to stop posting bugs. Please, keep posting them! I'd love to see the full list. In fact, I love the amount of bugs posted in this single post alone! (Though calling it "Everything Wrong" may be a tad egocentric, if that's the word. You can never list everything wrong with any product. Trust me, I've tried :D) As a QA guy, my world is bugs and patches, so I do my damndest to bring every bug to EA's attention, at least through the limited means I have available. So for that, bravo.

But please, leave the color commentary to Kirk Herbstreit. Say how you feel. Say that it makes you sick that you bought the game. Say that you're never going to buy DLC until their quality comes up. Say whatever the hell you want about the product. But leave the guys, their effort, and their competence out of it. That's all I ask. (And, just for anybody who might try to twist my words because of some "relationship", that statement goes for anybody in any company who does their damndest to make a product. You want to question the product? Fine by me. Leave the people out, unless you know something.)

[/end rant]

[souljahbill]

ROFLMFAO!!!

So much hilarity in the original post, especially the Holycross stuff. That literally brought me to tears!

[steelerfan]

Thank you, Jeff.

I couldn't get past the first couple of issues in the original post because of the "color commentary". I, too, want to see this "list", and I'd like EA to see it too. However, the number of cheap shots and shitty comments make it impossible for that to happen.

I agree with most of the problems I read above, but I also wouldn't blame any dev that read a paragraph, or two, of the above, said "fuck this asshole" and closed the thread.

I came to TGT to get away from posts like that. I hope this old way of posting isn't the new direction of this site.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[Dr Death]

WARNING: RANT AHEAD

This was actually a feature introduced with NCAA Football 10 (http://www.pastapadre.com/2009/01/15/get-your-name-in-ncaa-football-2010). I'm sure it has a lot to do with me, since I submitted my name (and anyone else with my last name), but it is not because of any special connection (i.e. the Community Day trips) between me and EA.

For the record, EA has "open[ed] up the fucking phone book" and incorporated names from similar sources (not sure I can say which). It could be better, but at least you don't get team after team of Applewhites like you used to.

I did not get mad at you blaming QA. I just said that blaming QA, and assuming QA can catch such things, is too simple of a finger to point. And, for the record, you were wrong on that one. ;)

DLC is DLC dude. If you're going to rant that DLC should be free, why stop there? Why not rant at every piece of DLC made by every company whose products did not live up to expectations?

Up above I said that I wasn't angry at you for blaming QA. THIS is what pisses me off. Assuming that they could do it, but they're too lazy or stupid. Again, I don't mean to target you, Dr. Death (or beartide, depending on who wrote this, it's not clear at this point in the post :D), but very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very little in software is as simple as "too lazy" or "too stupid". And I'm sick of it. In our last discussion about QA, I mentioned that I was boiling over -- well, here we are again. So I apologize in advance, but you've put your finger squarely on my biggest, brightest, hottest button.

My employer got hit with a Priority 1 problem today, reported to us via our customer. Their process is more formal, so they don't have to rely on message forums to get their customer feedback. This problem would be roughly equivalent to, oh, I don't know, NCAA failing to launch from the PS3 XMB after the August patch. Yet it got through our testing. Not just one person, but several. Repeatedly.

Here is a rough idea of what I think "the community" would say if EA made that level of a mistake:

I'm sick of it!

Is it inexcusable? Yes. All of it.
Is it simply unacceptable, as a consumer? Yes.
Am I happy about it? Hell no.
Do I feel some level of guilt about it, even though I had no direct impact on the product? Yes.

For the record, with those previous four statements I'm talking about my employer's problem; but the answers are the same for NCAA Football 13. Now, the situation with my employer is vastly different, both in scope, importance, and, probably most importantly, restitution. We'll have to jump through hoops because our customer holds the power, which is vastly different from EA and their customers. But mistakes can be made, even in the most professional environments, with people that have every intention of doing the job right, and work in companies that, in theory, have more than enough to throw at a given problem. Mistakes can be made, estimates can be wrong, resources can be misallocated, important people can leave at times of great impact, deadlines can come much quicker than anticipated and the resulting product can be lesser quality because of all those reasons and more.

I am not here to ask you to stop posting bugs. Please, keep posting them! I'd love to see the full list. In fact, I love the amount of bugs posted in this single post alone! (Though calling it "Everything Wrong" may be a tad egocentric, if that's the word. You can never list everything wrong with any product. Trust me, I've tried :D) As a QA guy, my world is bugs and patches, so I do my damndest to bring every bug to EA's attention, at least through the limited means I have available. So for that, bravo.

But please, leave the color commentary to Kirk Herbstreit. Say how you feel. Say that it makes you sick that you bought the game. Say that you're never going to buy DLC until their quality comes up. Say whatever the hell you want about the product. But leave the guys, their effort, and their competence out of it. That's all I ask. (And, just for anybody who might try to twist my words because of some "relationship", that statement goes for anybody in any company who does their damndest to make a product. You want to question the product? Fine by me. Leave the people out, unless you know something.)

[/end rant]

The one thing you didn't bring up though Jeff is that EA has US - and many more boards like this one - pointing out their mistakes year after year, and they fail to fix the same issues. Now as far as blaming the "people that work on the game" here is my point... last year's game was a colossal failure, I have to believe we can agree on that issue, and yet, in their first video blog this year, there was Ben Haumiller laughing and joking about how bad last year's game was.

So he laughs at the product they put out - which, in essence - is him laughing at everyone who bought that pile of crap, then they turn around and release a Mach II version of last year's debacle! How this doesn't get under your skin is beyond me.

And for what it's worth, and I pointed it out in the original post, I didn't pay one dime for the game this year. And thank God for that!

[Dr Death]

Thank you, Jeff.

I couldn't get past the first couple of issues in the original post because of the "color commentary". I, too, want to see this "list", and I'd like EA to see it too. However, the number of cheap shots and shitty comments make it impossible for that to happen.

I agree with most of the problems I read above, but I also wouldn't blame any dev that read a paragraph, or two, of the above, said "fuck this asshole" and closed the thread.

I came to TGT to get away from posts like that. I hope this old way of posting isn't the new direction of this site.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks Steelerfan, I knew I could count on you for some nice and fuzzy warm comments. What I found funny is that when I began the post, a week or more ago, I was in a nice mood, and the more I played the game the more the frustrations came out and the angrier the post became. But - to your point about my style of posting - I've seen people "play nice" for years and nothing ever gets done. So does it really matter if I write this:

Dear EA, here is a list of some issues with your NCAA Football game that I really hope you guys could fix.

Or...

Jesus Christ... three straight years of the same old crap? Are you freaking kidding me? Are they seriously this stupid or just too incompetent?

To me it doesn't matter. They don't listen to anyone. Not :Washington: fans, not :Arizona: fans, and certainly not community day guys. So excuse me for venting and being an "asshole." I am personally sick and tired of all their lies and their absolutely shitty game. And thanks to Freedom Of Speech, I have every right to voice that displeasure. Sorry if it upsets you, but to be honest, I'm not here to please you.

And if you want to get your panties in a bunch over one post, I have year's of posting and being quite the nice gentleman under my belt. You wanna rip me for one post? Go right ahead, but you could have made that complaint a long time ago about many other poster's. I know that you have some issue w/ me - be it the Run & Shoot or whatever it is - but I value the truth and everything listed above is the truth. This game is terribly broken - AGAIN - and it's ridiculous that they just keep putting out the same crap.

[gschwendt]

Jeff & Steelerfan hit the nail on the head. Take shots at the game, don't take shots at the people.

I assure you, everyone I've worked with down there is not lazy nor incompetent. There are limitations, particularly with developing a game on a yearly cycle. They get to some things and don't get to others. It's an unfortunate side-effect of having a contractual agreement with the NCAA... they dictate that a game must be released each year. That along with the fact that a large portion of buyers rarely if ever notice many of the issues you pointed out. They have to cater to not only the vocal minority (we're very much the minority) but also focus on what the casual player wants all the while trying to attract new buyers. All of that combined essentially says they would be missing out on a lot of money if they skipped a year here or there in order to clean-up some of these issues.

As far as your "Ben Haumiller laughing and joking" comment... I'm not certain what you're referring to but to my memory, the only thing he was laughing about was how bad some of the audio recorded for chants, etc. was. That audio was recorded around 10 years ago and yes, it was funny to hear some of their attempts at trying the Woo Pig Sooie chant. He wasn't laughing in your face or laughing at anyone who purchased the game. They were simply stating that there were problems with the game, some bad problems, and they've addressed some of them.


Honestly though, I applaud threads like this UNTIL you start taking pot-shots and essentially showing that you're unaware of anything internal at EA. You're stating your 100% speculation as fact, which it is not. If you had left all of that unnecessary commentary out of there, I would have turned right around and forwarded this to several people at EA tonight. Instead, it's not worth it because as steelerfan mentioned, no one would read through the entire thing that's laced with inaccurate language attacking themselves.

[beartide06]

I, too, want to see this "list"

Steelerfan, in the next day or so, you WILL see "the list."

[Dr Death]

Take shots at the game, don't take shots at the people.

Honestly though, I applaud threads like this UNTIL you start taking pot-shots and essentially showing that you're unaware of anything internal at EA. You're stating your 100% speculation as fact, which it is not. If you had left all of that unnecessary commentary out of there, I would have turned right around and forwarded this to several people at EA tonight. Instead, it's not worth it because as steelerfan mentioned, no one would read through the entire thing that's laced with inaccurate language attacking themselves.

Here's what I ask gschwendt, please explain to me how to "take shots at the game" and do so while not taking shots at the people who make the game? This is a total contradiction. Case in point; a few years ago Metallica came out w/ a new album that sounded like a garbled mess. I'm no Metallica fan but I did hear and read of their many fans complaining about the sound quality - or lack thereof.

So, while they were trashing the album they were also trashing the band because the band made the album. If I point out all the mistakes/bugs/glitches/problems/functionality issues w/ the game it is - at the very core - making a statement about the people who make the game. There is no difference. Could I have been more polite? Sure. Just as I've done for years. That worked out real well. And playing this game is just so frustrating that as the post grew, so too did my frustration level. But it won't continue because I don't see me playing this thing much longer. It's like a broken record w/ EA... everything just recycles year after year.

I just don't see a difference between taking shots at the game not equating to taking shots at the people who make the game.

[steelerfan]

So you've seen posters "play nice", but you think the way you post is new? Give me a break. People have been vomiting hatred for 10 years.

In regards to your Freedom of Speech, I have the same freedom. I'm expressing my opinion that your posting is against the spirit of this site. There are rules here. If I'm wrong, cdj, JB, or G will tell me. I don't think I am.

As to me having a "problem" with you - I don't know what you're talking about. The only "issue" with your run and shoot thread that I had was the small amount of generic information that you had in a "definitive guide". Now, admittedly, I have not looked at that thread in quite some time, but when I did, I was excited to learn more about the offense even though it's not an offense I personally enjoy.

I know you are knowledgeable about it, and I could learn something. But, when I last looked, you only had a list of things you need to make the offense work. They were things like: A) a good, accurate QB, B) a good O-line C) good receivers who can gain yardage after the catch, and D) a back who is versatile. Really? That's "definitive"? Those things will help any offense. I know you're capable of much more than that and it was that information that I was hoping you'd offer.

I don't have a problem with you, but I did leave another site because of the kind of posts you mimicked above. My understanding of TGT is that the Admins left for the same reason and they wanted this place to be for those of us who felt that all of the hate-filled venom was getting old.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[beartide06]

[b] Dr. Death (or beartide, depending on who wrote this, it's not clear at this point in the post :D)


For the record, it was Dr Death, specifically, that physically typed out the entire post. I used my notes and bullet points for input. Along with comments about each one etc. When I said "posted on behalf of me" that is what I was referencing. Again, I'll make sure to post my specific list, and just for steelerfan, I'll wrap it with a nice pink bow on top :D

[Dr Death]

So you've seen posters "play nice", but you think the way you post is new? Give me a break. People have been vomiting hatred for 10 years.

In regards to your Freedom of Speech, I have the same freedom. I'm expressing my opinion that your posting is against the spirit of this site. There are rules here. If I'm wrong, cdj, JB, or G will tell me. I don't think I am.

As to me having a "problem" with you - I don't know what you're talking about. The only "issue" with your run and shoot thread that I had was the small amount of generic information that you had in a "definitive guide". Now, admittedly, I have not looked at that thread in quite some time, but when I did, I was excited to learn more about the offense even though it's not an offense I personally enjoy.

I know you are knowledgeable about it, and I could learn something. But, when I last looked, you only had a list of things you need to make the offense work. They were things like: A) a good, accurate QB, B) a good O-line C) good receivers who can gain yardage after the catch, and D) a back who is versatile. Really? That's "definitive"? Those things will help any offense. I know you're capable of much more than that and it was that information that I was hoping you'd offer.

I don't have a problem with you, but I did leave another site because of the kind of posts you mimicked above. My understanding of TGT is that the Admins left for the same reason and they wanted this place to be for those of us who felt that all of the hate-filled venom was getting old.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

My apologies on the Run & Shoot thread. It seemed rather pointless after I initially posted it to go into great detail on an offense that nobody can run in the game because there are only what... four plays in the game? They also have wrong option routes in the game and routes that don't have options that are wrong and so it felt like it would be a lot of writing for nothing. My original intent was to go into great detail - just as I did on Utopia and Operation Sports - but then after I popped NCAA '12 in and saw how limited and wrong it is in the game, it was like... why bother?

Now if you want to know about the offense I can do that, but it won't help you in the game. And my original idea was to help people as it pertained to the game. It's been a while since I posted that, but I thought I made that clear.

As for the other stuff, it takes a LOT to set me off, and I can assure you that I won't do it again, simply because I won't be playing this game much longer and I have a novel I am in the process of finishing, so I have plenty of stuff to keep me busy and not irritate me like this game does. :D

[steelerfan]

Again, I'll make sure to post my specific list, and just for steelerfan, I'll wrap it with a nice pink bow on top :D

Don't do it for me. I just doubt anyone is going to read something so hate-filled and personally-insulting and then take it to heart. If someone wrote the things about my work that others do about the devs work, I'd tune them out. Particularly if, as Jeff pointed out, much of their angst was misguided.

I can't expect them to read all of that extra garbage and how can I forward it to them, the way it is written?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[JBHuskers]

Here's what I ask gschwendt, please explain to me how to "take shots at the game" and do so while not taking shots at the people who make the game? This is a total contradiction.

Not a contradiction. The two are separate. Completely separate. That's why you see some sites flourish and others crumble because they can figure out that the two are separate. Tommy is EXACTLY right. Take out the cheap shots at people, and this could be usable and sent to EA. Calling something that happened in the game and calling one of the devs stupid is not the same. There is a simple term that has been used for decades called CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Steelerfan is probably not alone in only getting through the first couple bulletpoints, because that type of shit is unreadable, and if you have been working for weeks on this, you've basically wasted your time in trying to get your point across.

[beartide06]

Don't do it for me. I just doubt anyone is going to read something so hate-filled and personally-insulting and then take it to heart. If someone wrote the things about my work that others do about the devs work, I'd tune them out. Particularly if, as Jeff pointed out, much of their angst was misguided.

I can't expect them to read all of that extra garbage and how can I forward it to them, the way it is written?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

I never said anything about my list being hate-filled or personally insulting. In fact, here is an example of how I have 1 item written on my paper exactly: "Player(s) not responding to pressing the "catch" button."

And no, I won't be doing it for you, I'll be doing it for the community and hopefully, the betterment of this product.

[steelerfan]

I never said anything about my list being hate-filled or personally insulting. In fact, here is an example of how I have 1 item written on my paper exactly: "Player(s) not responding to pressing the "catch" button."

And no, I won't be doing it for you, I'll be doing it for the community and hopefully, the betterment of this product.

I know you didn't. I was just saying that if your list were like the OP, no one will see it.

For the community and, hopefully, the betterment of this product - yes. That was my point all along.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[beartide06]

I know you didn't. I was just saying that if your list were like the OP, no one will see it.

For the community and, hopefully, the betterment of this product - yes. That was my point all along.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

I know. I understand. I'll try to submit my list by Friday, hopefully.

[steelerfan]

I know. I understand. I'll try to submit my list by Friday, hopefully.

:up:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[PeteyKirch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDAfs8p8hSU

Can someone explain to me how in NFL2k5 they were able to program animations where the ball carrier would place their hand on the back of their blockers and push off to find open space, or to even guide them to block someone else. While in NCAA13 the ball carrier just lowers his head and keeps ramming into a brick wall channeling their inner Gus Frerotte.

[Rudy]

I agree with so many things in Dr Death's post EXCEPT the part where he says take out speed threshold. Never, ever remove options! We need more of them - like a fumble and fatigue slider.

As for the people objecting about Dr Death's trashing of the dev team. I do think it's unfair to call them lazy but he's basically called them very incompetent by pointing out everything. Is that the straw that broke the camel's back? I think some of you guys are a little too close to the dev team and/or too PC or sensitive. This was a Grade A rant and often rants get emotional and go too far. I read it like that and just see some of the comments being out of frustration.

As far as not forwarding this to EA to have them fix anything because it's too hate filled, I don't think it matters at all. The EA dev team does what they want and how they want it. Many of these issues have been around for years so why should we ever think it's going to be fixed in a patch or even in NCAA 14? I've lost all hope with this series and the current dev team.

[souljahbill]

I don't think the developers are either lazy or incompetent. In fact, if I recall correctly in the Making of NCAA 12 show last year, there was footage of people staying very late into the night trying to get the game right, calling their spouses via Skype to tell their kids good night. That's certainly not lazy. As far as incompetence, I think everyone's job is easier to a person not doing it. I remember when I first became an athletic trainer, anytime someone got hurt, my advice was to put ice on it. My dad said, "I sent you to college for that? All you ever say is put ice on it. I can tell people that!" Thing is, while yes, he can tell people that, he doesn't understand WHY he should tell people that. He doesn't know about the inflammatory process. He doesn't know the what steps one should do when beginning rehab. He also doesn't have access to ultrasound machines or electrical stimulation machines and other modalities so putting ice on it was really the only option.

I know the game isn't where any of us want to be. I can be better. We know that, Ben and staff know that. It's possible to point out flaws without saying, "Could you please fix this, pretty please with a cherry on top" or saying, "Hey stupid, you don't know how to do your job, here's what's wrong with your shit, dumbnuts." It must be an American cultural thing that we always have to go to either extreme. Work the middle people! Call them on their shit without calling people pieces of shit. At the end of the day, they're still people and outside of child rapists, movie theater mass murderers, terrorists, and other people of that ilk, they deserve to be respected as human beings.

[SmoothPancakes]

I don't think the developers are either lazy or incompetent. In fact, if I recall correctly in the Making of NCAA 12 show last year, there was footage of people staying very late into the night trying to get the game right, calling their spouses via Skype to tell their kids good night. That's certainly not lazy. As far as incompetence, I think everyone's job is easier to a person not doing it. I remember when I first became an athletic trainer, anytime someone got hurt, my advice was to put ice on it. My dad said, "I sent you to college for that? All you ever say is put ice on it. I can tell people that!" Thing is, while yes, he can tell people that, he doesn't understand WHY he should tell people that. He doesn't know about the inflammatory process. He doesn't know the what steps one should do when beginning rehab. He also doesn't have access to ultrasound machines or electrical stimulation machines and other modalities so putting ice on it was really the only option.

I know the game isn't where any of us want to be. I can be better. We know that, Ben and staff know that. It's possible to point out flaws without saying, "Could you please fix this, pretty please with a cherry on top" or saying, "Hey stupid, you don't know how to do your job, here's what's wrong with your shit, dumbnuts." It must be an American cultural thing that we always have to go to either extreme. Work the middle people! Call them on their shit without calling people pieces of shit. At the end of the day, they're still people and outside of child rapists, movie theater mass murderers, terrorists, and other people of that ilk, they deserve to be respected as human beings.

Yep. The way I always look at it, view it as how you would want someone talking about you at your job. You want to sit there calling them lazy or incompetent because of bugs or issues in the game? Then imagine what it'd be like having people standing there calling you lazy or incompetent because you fucked up on a report or something that you do at your job. Wouldn't be so fun having that happen to you at your job. But it's perfectly okay to say or do that to people at their job apparently. And people wonder why the rest of the world fucking hate Americans.

[Dr Death]

Yep. The way I always look at it, view it as how you would want someone talking about you at your job. You want to sit there calling them lazy or incompetent because of bugs or issues in the game? Then imagine what it'd be like having people standing there calling you lazy or incompetent because you fucked up on a report or something that you do at your job. Wouldn't be so fun having that happen to you at your job. But it's perfectly okay to say or do that to people at their job apparently. And people wonder why the rest of the world fucking hate Americans.

In my own defense Smooth... I, and many others, have tried just what you said - for years - and it gets ignored. I only need to be told once, and if I had a slew of forums w/ people posting about on-going problems, I wouldn't ignore them for years on end. I would either address the problem and fix it or explain why it can't be fixed. Should fans of :Washington: keep posting photos of their uniforms which have been wrong for three straight years? Or is it four now? Heck, I've lost count. Point is, my experience w/ EA is that you tell them nicely and professionally what is wrong and they ignore you. And that leads to the frustration.

[souljahbill]

With all due respect, because professional hasn't created desired outcomes as of yet doesn't mean we should then become venomous. I agree that SCREAMING LOUDLY sometimes gets results that being polite doesn't but there's a way to raise hell without insults. I think that's all people are asking. By all means, get angry because I think everyone agrees with the points in the original post. I'll even say its fine to call people out for a shotty product. It just isn't necessary to call them lazy and/or incompeten or claim "they don't know football" when they have several people on staff who have played D1 football. I'm sure if it were that easy to just "fix stuff," it would've been done. I can't possibly believe that they put out a sub-par product on purpose for shits and giggles as they roll around in their money bin laughing at us stooges for being suckered again.

[JBHuskers]

With all due respect, because professional hasn't created desired outcomes as of yet doesn't mean we should then become venomous. I agree that SCREAMING LOUDLY sometimes gets results that being polite doesn't but there's a way to raise hell without insults. I think that's all people are asking. By all means, get angry because I think everyone agrees with the points in the original post. I'll even say its fine to call people out for a shotty product. It just isn't necessary to call them lazy and/or incompeten or claim "they don't know football" when they have several people on staff who have played D1 football. I'm sure if it were that easy to just "fix stuff," it would've been done. I can't possibly believe that they put out a sub-par product on purpose for shits and giggles as they roll around in their money bin laughing at us stooges for being suckered again.

:+1:

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[SmoothPancakes]

In my own defense Smooth... I, and many others, have tried just what you said - for years - and it gets ignored. I only need to be told once, and if I had a slew of forums w/ people posting about on-going problems, I wouldn't ignore them for years on end. I would either address the problem and fix it or explain why it can't be fixed. Should fans of :Washington: keep posting photos of their uniforms which have been wrong for three straight years? Or is it four now? Heck, I've lost count. Point is, my experience w/ EA is that you tell them nicely and professionally what is wrong and they ignore you. And that leads to the frustration.

Much like souljabill said, I understand where you're coming from, and professional doesn't always do the job. You want to scream from the mountaintops about the product, perfectly fine. Turning it into attacks on individuals, no. I work in radio, I deal with the public daily. The people who are civil and professional, even loud while maintaining the civility, I'll do what I can to help them or toss their complaint or suggestion up the ladder. The people who berate me (just for being the poor bastard to answer that specific line at that time) because they hate the way we do something, hate a song we play, hate this, hate that, not only is it going to piss me off and leave me in a foul mood, most likely causing me to go off on someone else who ends up further pissing me off that day, but if they get rude and make personal attacks, well, I'm going to completely forget what they were complaining about and not do a fucking thing.

Case in point, I answer a call a lot of mornings about people asking to do something or asking me to pass something along or with a complaint about something, and I'll do what I can right there on the spot or else pass it up the ladder. A year or so ago, someone called to complain about a trivia contest we do on air, complaining because he personally thought the question asked on air was stupid, said something insulting to me, and before I could even say three words in response to his original complaint, slammed the phone down and hung up on me. After that, did I give a single fuck about his complaint? Nope. Completely forgot it and never bothered to say anything to anyone about it. Had he been civil about it, I would have at least said something to our PD next time I saw him. Because not only was he completely rude and uncivil from the very moment the call started, but insulted me in the process, I couldn't have cared less about his complaint.

It's the same way here with the EA guys. I read through the entire list, and it's a hell of a list and compilation of bugs and issues. But if I was an EA guy and I'm getting repeatedly called lazy, incompetent, stupid, a dumbass in every single item of the list, I'm not finishing reading it. I might get 4 or 5 issues in before I'm going to say fuck it and move on to something else. G even said, if it didn't have all those attacks on the guys in it, he would have taken it and emailed it to multiple guys at EA last night. With all the commentary, the attacks, the insults in it, no way in hell would I pass something like that on to the EA guys with all that still in it.

[JBHuskers]

Just because using constructive criticism hasn't worked to this point, using personal attacks just increases the likelihood that your feedback will never be looked at again and passed over no matter how great and valid the points are. People came to this site to get away from that type of crap.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[souljahbill]

Just because using constructive criticism hasn't worked to this point, using personal attacks just increases the likelihood that your feedback will never be looked at again and passed over no matter how great and valid the points are. People came to this site to get away from that type of crap.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Yeah, there's a reason Martin Luther King Jr. is a revered American hero and Malcom X isn't. They both wanted the same thing but MLK went about it by opening people's eyes and minds while Malcom X, who had an Obama-like quality of being well spoken and highly intelligent, is regarded more as "thug" due to his "Any Means Necessary" mantra.

[psuexv]

Good stuff posted here. Dr. Death and Beartide, great job putting together the list. But as others have said it's really unnecessary for the whole HOW DID EA MISS THIS :fp: :bang: :fp: :smh:

Also great response by Jeff and he totally hit the nail right on the head. Things slip through all the time in testing and developing. My company is on a roughly 3 year release cycle and as Jeff stated a lot of worse things than little glitches somehow get by testing. Even things that we've patched and released in a point release have broken other things. It's completely frustrating but unfortunately it happens.

Not saying this is an excuse by any means but these little glitches can be extremely hard to find and correct. And yes, EA does have the message boards and the masses sending them feedback. However it is also about having the resources to fix these glitches and being able to fix them within a yearly cycle period with also developing new features to keep the game fresh. And yes, most of us would be happy with them just fixing what's broken and moving on. But we do have to realize that we are completely the minority of the people that purchase this game. Little Johnny :mdcr: could care less if the defenses align properly or the pulling guard misses the block occasionally. They want to play on Varsity and put 100 points on the computer and play with Barry Sanders and rack up 500 yards in a game.

[SmoothPancakes]

Just because using constructive criticism hasn't worked to this point, using personal attacks just increases the likelihood that your feedback will never be looked at again and passed over no matter how great and valid the points are. People came to this site to get away from that type of crap.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Pretty much the exact reason I ignore anything and everything, no matter how great it is in regards to bugs or features or something, from the "other" site. Because over there, it's nothing but bash, bash, bash, bash, bash. For that reason, even as a customer, much less EA, why the hell should I bother even taking the time out of my day to read what great points someone might make in a thread when the other 99 threads are bash, bash, bash, bash, bash?

[morsdraconis]

Pretty much the exact reason I ignore anything and everything, no matter how great it is in regards to bugs or features or something, from the "other" site. Because over there, it's nothing but bash, bash, bash, bash, bash. For that reason, even as a customer, much less EA, why the hell should I bother even taking the time out of my day to read what great points someone might make in a thread when the other 99 threads are bash, bash, bash, bash, bash?

:+1: x :infinity:


I respect your football mind Death. You know I do, but man, you can't trash on EA like that and expect things to work out in your favor. It's one thing to have criticisms, it's another to call the people that work on the game dumb. The amount of time that they have to make a game is unreasonable (no game company has ~6 or 7 months to make a sequel to a game like EA Sports does with these sports franchises). Personally, I haven't touched '13 and never will. As I've said numerous times before, I'm done with football video games, but I also know that the people working on this franchise want nothing more than to make the best college football game they can every year.

[skipwondah33]

But we do have to realize that we are completely the minority of the people that purchase this game. Little Johnny :mdcr: could care less if the defenses align properly or the pulling guard misses the block occasionally. They want to play on Varsity and put 100 points on the computer and play with Barry Sanders and rack up 500 yards in a game.Basically

Which is why it would be cool (and I know totally impossible) to make 2 different games sort of speak. 1 for the guys who know football and all the things we have complaints about. Then the one who could care less and just want to do as you said.

The people it seems to be most disappointing to are the ones who have been a fan or alteast long time customer of EA's for the past 14-15+ years.

[Dr Death]

Yeah, there's a reason Martin Luther King Jr. is a revered American hero and Malcom X isn't. They both wanted the same thing but MLK went about it by opening people's eyes and minds while Malcom X, who had an Obama-like quality of being well spoken and highly intelligent, is regarded more as "thug" due to his "Any Means Necessary" mantra.

For me being a person who's very interested in offense, for some reason today I am feeling quite defensive! :D So I don't know if you're insinuating that I'm the Malcolm X of this board or just making a point, but let me try to clarify some things and maybe, just maybe, shed some light on this for everyone. I will say this up front; this may come across as being very narcissistic, but it's not that at all, it is simply me trying to make a point.

I always believed that TGT was a place where we could go and speak our mind w/ out fear of being banned, like over at OS. And over the years, here at TGT, at OS and Utopia, I have helped a lot of people in a lot of ways. There are a lot of people who have a much better understanding of the Run & Shoot because of posts I've made over the years. There are people that would PM me and ask me to explain to them how to read Cover 2 vs Cover 3 and so on. They did this privately because they didn't want people thinking they didn't know football, and I always obliged. After all, when watching football on TV, how many times do you see the defensive coverage? Rarely.

There's a person on this board who no longer posts but he does still come here... and the reason he doesn't post is because a year ago he needed $50.00 to buy the game. {NCAA '12} I sent him the money through Pay Pal and he promised to pay me back within a couple of weeks. It's now been over a year and nothing.

So when I look at my history, helping people, explaining things to people, labbing w/ them, paying for them to get the game, and being a donator here, it makes me feel that enough people know me well enough that I could post something like I did and not be called an "asshole" or be raked over the coals for being so "insensitive."

I now see that I over-estimated how others view me and since it's been made so abundantly clear to me that this is the case, then all I can say is nobody here has to worry about me ever posting anything similar again. I will say this; I've seen others here go off on one thing or another and I never questioned them because I know their history and I can relate to someone going off once in a while.

I started playing the game on 6 July and within no time at all, I started seeing a plethora of problems. Or, at least, what I would call problems. Then Beartide06 called me and he started telling me all that he had noticed. And that's when we decided to post about it. And over the past week +, every time I played the game, more glaring problems were present and it just infuriated me.

My biggest question is how - after last year's game, which I believe all here would agree was a total failure - could EA release a game w/ this many problems in it? I simply don't get that. As far as them working on new features, come on people, Heisman Challenge is only Road To Glory w/ a few ex-Heisman winners in that mode. That didn't take long at all to implement.

But I digress... I was - and still am - ticked off at the way the company that makes this game has mishandled so many things. Whether it's the people working on the game, or those above them, it's still EA. And for the record, I never called anyone out by name, save for Ben and his laughing at how bad '12 was. I always said EA - never once did I call anyone out by name.

Anyway, I felt that my posting history here and at Utopia afforded me a little leeway to express my displeasure. I see I was wrong in that assumption. And to quote Paul Harvey... now you know the rest of the story. And my apologies to anyone who was offended.

[gschwendt]

No one here is calling you an asshole or raking you over the coals. We're telling you why this method won't work here. You do get leeway because of your history... if you didn't have that history here, then in all likelihood we would have deleted the post and moved on. Instead, we're having a conversation about it because we all agree with your root of your statement, we just don't agree with your delivery. We're also wanting to clear up the misunderstanding you have and multiple others have in saying that the devs are lazy or stupid.

[psuexv]

As far as them working on new features, come on people, Heisman Challenge is only Road To Glory w/ a few ex-Heisman winners in that mode. That didn't take long at all to implement.


Passing trajectories and 430 new catch animations I would say were two pretty big added features that probably took quite a bit of time to implement.


And my apologies to anyone who was offended.
Personally, I didn't really think you offended anyone and from what I read most people complimented you on the list but were simply stating to lay off of the unneeded comments.




It makes me wonder if the folks at EA have ever watched a real life college football game.
HOW DOES THIS MAKE IT PAST THE GUYS MAKING THIS GAME???
Seriously EA???
open up a fucking phone book
And this somehow slips past the guys checking the game for quality issues???
For the love, EA... for the love...
Absolutely pathetic.
but for the love of God, come up w/ a new, less stupid looking animation for the bad form tackles.
shows to anyone w/ eyes just how completely lazy EA is at making this game
any company that cared about their clientele or their product would have gotten up off their ass and delivered a TOP NOTCH GAME.
EA does whatever they want to do and they could really give a fuck about their customers.
EA is lazy
How dare you put out a shitty product

[SmoothPancakes]

No one here is calling you an asshole or raking you over the coals. We're telling you why this method won't work here. You do get leeway because of your history... if you didn't have that history here, then in all likelihood we would have deleted the post and moved on. Instead, we're having a conversation about it because we all agree with your root of your statement, we just don't agree with your delivery. We're also wanting to clear up the misunderstanding you have and multiple others have in saying that the devs are lazy or stupid.

This. I respect you Dr. D. You have made some great posts and great threads here in the past. This one could also be one of those great posts and threads, just without the hostility, the attacks and the vitriol. While you may have said EA with regards to everything when mentioning lazy, incompetent, etc, it ultimately was directed at the devs, they're the only ones it could have been directed at, as they're the ones actually making the game. So even not mentioning the devs by name, it was still ultimately geared towards the devs.

This thread, as has already been said, it's a great post, until you start getting to the commentary and attacks. G said last night, his own words, "If you had left all of that unnecessary commentary out of there, I would have turned right around and forwarded this to several people at EA tonight." This would have been sitting in the email of multiple guys at EA within hours last night and maybe some good would have come from it. I don't know how many read it, quite a few said they stopped reading after only a couple points as the commentary started in. I stuck with it and read it start to finish. It is a damn good list, quite possibly the best I've ever seen, and I look forward to Bear's COMPLETE list.

If you would completely cut the commentary and attacks out of that post, hell, I would have co-signed that the second I got done reading it and asked G and the guys to forward this to everyone they can at EA. As it is now, I can't do that, not with all the unnecessary stuff in it. Completely cut all the commentary, attacks and emotion out of it, just leave nothing but the cold, hard facts and points, and add in everything of Bear's that wasn't included, and I will co-sign it in complete agreement (and I can guarantee I will not be alone in that), and get G and the guys to forward it on to everyone they can at EA and maybe some good, whatever amount that may be, will come of it.

[xMrHitStickx904]

Basically

Which is why it would be cool (and I know totally impossible) to make 2 different games sort of speak. 1 for the guys who know football and all the things we have complaints about. Then the one who could care less and just want to do as you said.

The people it seems to be most disappointing to are the ones who have been a fan or alteast long time customer of EA's for the past 14-15+ years.


I agree with this, I've played NCAA since the '02 copy, so I'm one of the more younger members on the forum. I don't think they have to make 2 games honestly, because on many PS2 versions of the game, you could BS around in a "Arcade" type of way and have fun with it. But at the same time, you could play it SIM and be very satisfied, play it Tournament style & have fun with it as well. It can be done in the same game. I think this comes down to the fact that the NCAA dev team put themselves behind the 8-ball by not porting over NCAA 06 (PS2) for NCAA 07 with updated graphics for the Xbox 360 in 2006. To me, that's where this uphill battle began, and the dev team is fighting like crazy to get it all back, while adding new shiny feature to attract buyers who are not hardcore players like us. I don't think they are lazy at all, I just think they are continuously trying to catch up, whereas on PS2, new shiny features could be added while the core gameplay & features for hardcore ballers would still be around, or enhanced, Therefore, everyone was happy for the most part.

[skipwondah33]

Passing trajectories and 430 new catch animations I would say were two pretty big added features that probably took quite a bit of time to implement. It all honestly though both of those things are something that should have been in and have been needed for quite a long time. And this goes for both NCAA and Madden.

Here we are in 2012 and it is just happening.

I understand needing to put in different aspects of the game each year. But why not build the Gameplay things up (like man align, trajectories, correct blocking, Defenders completely ignoring a man running down field...please see IOU's video of this he has up on YouTube etc) up first and foremost then focus on the other things.

No matter how cool Heisman mode challenge and Mascot Mashup may be..if the game plays terrible it will continue to lose supporters.

[SCClassof93]

As always I enjoy reading these topics at tgt. I usually don't post much on this topic....but after thinking through this here I go...1. I think Dr Death makes excellent points and many of his critics as to his style make good points as well. As to the devs and the game.
1. I don't think anyone that worked on this game is stupid, if they are who hired them? 2. Lazy? We all have a tad of that but deadlines were met and I assume the goal for the "new" product was achieved. 3. Many of you rightly point out that the first two points should not be leveled against the devs, however if someone can't do the job they are hired for are they not incompetent? I ask this because I go back the full 20 years on this game and these last two have been really bad. Last year I gave up with the transfer error. This year thankfully I have not had that problem but the game has not captured me as fun. I think Dr. Death shows frustration with what seems to be the staff's inability to fix ongoing problems and lack of attention to detail. I share this frustration. Having hired and fired many people over the years I can tell you I have made mistakes before in hiring someone that could not do the job. And no, please do not think I am naive enough to think the devs can't make the game we want. I think management has them make the game they think is best for the market as a whole. We sadly are not that market.
If that was not clear I apologize but I could not find a gif that said all of that....but I am still looking :nod:

[beartide06]

As always I enjoy reading these topics at tgt. I usually don't post much on this topic....but after thinking through this here I go...1. I think Dr Death makes excellent points and many of his critics as to his style make good points as well. As to the devs and the game.
1. I don't think anyone that worked on this game is stupid, if they are who hired them? 2. Lazy? We all have a tad of that but deadlines were met and I assume the goal for the "new" product was achieved. 3. Many of you rightly point out that the first two points should not be leveled against the devs, however if someone can't do the job they are hired for are they not incompetent? I ask this because I go back the full 20 years on this game and these last two have been really bad. Last year I gave up with the transfer error. This year thankfully I have not had that problem but the game has not captured me as fun. I think Dr. Death shows frustration with what seems to be the staff's inability to fix ongoing problems and lack of attention to detail. I share this frustration. Having hired and fired many people over the years I can tell you I have made mistakes before in hiring someone that could not do the job. And no, please do not think I am naive enough to think the devs can't make the game we want. I think management has them make the game they think is best for the market as a whole. We sadly are not that market.
If that was not clear I apologize but I could not find a gif that said all of that....but I am still looking :nod:

:up: I think this is precisely the idea behind the post. I, for one, thought you were very clear in your statements above.

[beartide06]

It all honestly though both of those things are something that should have been in and have been needed for quite a long time. And this goes for both NCAA and Madden.

Here we are in 2012 and it is just happening.

I understand needing to put in different aspects of the game each year. But why not build the Gameplay things up (like man align, trajectories, correct blocking, Defenders completely ignoring a man running down field...please see IOU's video of this he has up on YouTube etc) up first and foremost then focus on the other things.

No matter how cool Heisman mode challenge and Mascot Mashup may be..if the game plays terrible it will continue to lose supporters.

Again, another good point. Dr Death made some very good points, and obviously, I agree with most of the points made, considering I contributed to the ideas behind it :D

I'll be posting my list most likely tomorrow, maybe late tonight. Bare with me guys, It is over 100 points. :D

[gschwendt]

Again, another good point. Dr Death made some very good points, and obviously, I agree with most of the points made, considering I contributed to the ideas behind it :D

I'll be posting my list most likely tomorrow, maybe late tonight. Bare with me guys, It is over 100 points. LOL!
Bear in mind, when making these points, the more details you have, the better, especially if we're sending it to EA.

For example, one of the complaints in the original post is that whenever the offensive team recovers a fumble, the ball may be ruled dead on the spot. I've seen that issue for myself, however it should be noted that on 4th down, that is 100% the correct ruling. It's the fumblerooski rule... since there is no down-side to fumbling a ball when you're trying to convert a first down (either way you give up the ball), a defensive player must touch it before the offensive team can advance a fumbled ball.

If all was included was the original post on the matter, EA could easily write that off as "they probably just don't know about the obscure rule" and move on.

[Dr Death]

Bear in mind, when making these points, the more details you have, the better, especially if we're sending it to EA.

For example, one of the complaints in the original post is that whenever the offensive team recovers a fumble, the ball may be ruled dead on the spot. I've seen that issue for myself, however it should be noted that on 4th down, that is 100% the correct ruling. It's the fumblerooski rule... since there is no down-side to fumbling a ball when you're trying to convert a first down (either way you give up the ball), a defensive player must touch it before the offensive team can advance a fumbled ball.

If all was included was the original post on the matter, EA could easily write that off as "they probably just don't know about the obscure rule" and move on.

Yeah, to clarify, I have had this happen on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down. Have never had it happen on 4th down. Have also seen it on punts and kickoffs and onside kicks.

[skipwondah33]

This is what I was referring to in my post.

Can someone tell me what was on the CB's mind? Even Deion Sanders would have made an attempt lol

Note: 3:20 mark of the video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ0DIl03dWQ&hd=1&t=3m20s

[beartide06]

Bear in mind, when making these points, the more details you have, the better, especially if we're sending it to EA.

For example, one of the complaints in the original post is that whenever the offensive team recovers a fumble, the ball may be ruled dead on the spot. I've seen that issue for myself, however it should be noted that on 4th down, that is 100% the correct ruling. It's the fumblerooski rule... since there is no down-side to fumbling a ball when you're trying to convert a first down (either way you give up the ball), a defensive player must touch it before the offensive team can advance a fumbled ball.

If all was included was the original post on the matter, EA could easily write that off as "they probably just don't know about the obscure rule" and move on.

Oh, I knew about the rule, sir. It has happened on more than one down, as Dr. Death stated.

[gschwendt]

Oh, I knew about the rule, sir. It has happened on more than one down, as Dr. Death stated.
Oh, I know and as mentioned, I've seen it myself. I was just saying be sure to include that sort of information with it. Essentially every detail possible helps limit their speculation and questions.

[gschwendt]

This is what I was referring to in my post.

Can someone tell me what was on the CB's mind? Even Deion Sanders would have made an attempt lol
It was a horrible bug that piggy-backed on with one of the patches for NCAA12 and carried over to NCAA13. I assure you they are aware and I would assume it should be addressed with one of the upcoming patches.

[psuexv]

Bear in mind, when making these points, the more details you have, the better, especially if we're sending it to EA.

For example, one of the complaints in the original post is that whenever the offensive team recovers a fumble, the ball may be ruled dead on the spot. I've seen that issue for myself, however it should be noted that on 4th down, that is 100% the correct ruling. It's the fumblerooski rule... since there is no down-side to fumbling a ball when you're trying to convert a first down (either way you give up the ball), a defensive player must touch it before the offensive team can advance a fumbled ball.

If all was included was the original post on the matter, EA could easily write that off as "they probably just don't know about the obscure rule" and move on.

I could have sworn that an offensive team cannot advance a fumble, not matter on what down. This is actually one of the things that I've complained about. I'll cause the QB to fumble and the Olineman will pick it up and rumble for some yards. I have never seen a fumble blown dead when an offensive player has recovered.

[cdj]

CPU Clock Management - The clock management w/ the CPU is beyond atrocious. It doesn't matter if it's a team that runs the No-Huddle or a team that runs a Pro Style offense, they always snap the ball somewhere around the :28-:30 second mark. I've seen CPU drives that are 10 plays for 75 yards and yet only take 1:37 off the clock. This is yet another thing that EA seems to not be able to comprehend; teams use clock management. They know how to take time off the clock. So why is it so difficult for EA to implement this properly in the game? Is it because so many people play 5:00 minute quarters? Does EA not realize that some of us play 10:00 minute quarters and others play as much as 15:00 minute quarters. Bottom line; the CPU needs to have better clock management and implement it throughout the game, not just in the final 3:00 minutes when the CPU is winning.

Timeouts - The CPU always calls a timeout w/ 1:00 left in the half or a game. Why is this still present in the game???



No CPU Logic - The CPU never game-plans, never adjusts to what you're doing, never forces you to adjust. Nope, all the CPU does is cheat to gain a victory. It cracks me up that they came up w/ Season Showdown to 'promote good sportsmanship' and yet their very game defines cheese and cheating to sometimes absurd levels. Would it really be that difficult to program the game to where the CPU 'learns' what you're doing, makes adjustments and forces you to adjust? I mean, seriously, football is a game of adjustments. You hear this said a million times every Saturday and Sunday throughout the Fall and Winter... yet in this game it is non-existent.

IMO CPU logic should definitely be one of the top priorities for NCAA 14. As you said, they don't adjust, they don't counter effectively, they don't utilize their roster, etc.

The timeout thing isn't correct, but I understand why it happens. The code is probably written with something in mind like: 'If trailing by 7-14 points with minute to go and possession, call timeouts to preserve clock.' Somehow, a variance in the time or logic would help, but (though it looks silly with all of the 2:01/2:00/1:00 timeouts) I understand why it happens.



Crowd Noise - This year EA bragged about how they went to numerous stadiums and recorded the crowds and that crowd noise would sound "authentic" in this year's game. Yet the crowd's sound worse this year than any year I can think of. Example: Playing as :Kansas: at :Oklahoma: in year one of my dynasty, for nearly three full quarters I was winning this game. Up 20-14 and driving, their crowd was as silent as a church mouse. At their 3 yard line my WR fumbles the ball and an :Oklahoma: player scoops it up and goes 97 yards for a TD, giving them a 21-20 lead. I get the ball back on offense and... the crowd was dead. Now in real life if something like this was happening - an underdog upsetting the # 1 ranked team in the country - and the # 1 team finally took the lead late in the game, the crowd would be going insane and would be doing all they could to rattle the road team. But not in this game.

And despite EA's claim that crowds would sound "better" and "more authentic" they actually sound worse this year than anytime in the game's history.

What kind of sound system are you on? I agree that it could be better (more variance in ebbs and flows) but I also think it is better than last year.

Visually, I'd add that the crowd color composition of stadiums is a weak spot. Too much white (secondary color) and not enough of the primary. The Sea of Red at Nebraska is 50/50 and for some reason, Kansas State's crowd is mainly in white gear instead of purple. It's a small thing that significantly impacts the visual experience of playing in an otherwise very accurate and detailed stadium.


Commentary - We all know and agree that the commentary is grossly outdated, but there are so many times when what the announcers say just doesn't make any sense. Example: I hit a WR over the middle completely wide open... nearest defender is at least 5 yards away, if not more. Yet Herbstreit will say this: "This quarterback has got to be more careful. He can't keep throwing into traffic like that..." Really? There's also the "This quarterback has a lot of faith in his receivers, even when he's a little off target he feels they can go up and make the catch." And yet... the ball will have hit the WR right in the chest, right between his numbers!

Nessler also often says that a team is 'confused' when they call a timeout. Quite often the timeout is for obvious clock management reasons, so his comment seems odd, if not annoying.


Studio Updates - Another "good idea in theory" but poorly implemented. Same old stuff said over and over. AND... about 97% of the time the studio update is some massive upset. :Arkansas_State: beating :Oregon: on the road? Check. :Western_Kentucky: beating :Alabama: on the road? Check. :Wake_Forest: beating :Georgia: on the road? Check. And on and on and on... Once again, EA proves they have no middle ground. It's always all or nothing w/ them.

I've read others say they see a lot of upsets, but so far in my Dynasty Games I rarely get upset Updates. It makes some sense though as Updates in real life usually center on big games in-progress or upsets completed/in the making.



Drive Charts - I know that not all get into this, but there are many of us who do. We write down stats, keep track of drive charts, and yet, in this game, the drive charts are totally screwed up. I go on a 75 yard drive that takes 13 plays and 6:33 off the clock and yet it will say something like: 11 plays - 58 yards - 4:13. How can they not get simple math correct??? Also, if you intercept a pass and then go on a scoring drive, the interception will be counted as part of the scoring drive. Again... really???

I think this is in the August game update, maybe?


Scheduling - My first year in my dynasty had 20 teams playing 11 games. T-W-E-N-T-Y!!! Since this was a problem last year, how did they NOT fix this???

Is this in the out of the box schedules, after doing Custom Schedules in OD, or where?


Automated Names - I've been using automated names and I see the same names popping up over and over. Especially Holycross! Really? Is this something EA did for Jeff H{oly} Cross??? :D I mean come on EA, open up a fucking phone book and get some more names. How hard can this be??? Right now I have two Gray's and three Holycross' on my team. Perhaps I am recruiting from the same families but it sure seems pretty lame to me.

Some of that may be bad luck or odds. AFAIK, each name (first/last) has a % likelihood of being generated. That is pretty funny that you've seen a herd of Holycrosses. :D


DB's Stopping In Mid-Play - I've seen this gem on both my team as well as the CPU. The CB/S will have the WR covered, then, just as the pass is arriving it's like the DB hits a brick wall and just completely comes to a stop, allowing the WR to make the reception. That this is in the retail version is beyond absurd.

I've seen some of that as well and I think it's the game not being able to pull up the (proper) animation to do something. Hopefully that can be patched as it's very frustrating when it happens.


HDR Lighting - Chalk this up to yet another 'good idea in theory, but poorly implemented' thing. Someone on OS posted a photo of a :Tennessee: player in the game and a :Tennessee: player in real life. In the game, their uniforms look like a faded, washed out mess. In real life, their orange is vibrant and filled w/ color. And while we're talking about uniforms, let's talk about team's w/ gold helmets and how horrible they look during night games. And we have HDR Lighting to thank for this mess. And yet again, despite numerous posts and photos to back up the many complaints about this, EA does nothing to fix it.

From what I've gathered in art videos, blogs, etc. The game begins (or aims to, at least) with the proper uniform color. It's then filters/shading/other technical terms I don't know, etc. that are added for lighting (time of day), weather effects, etc. that starts to change it. Tennessee is a tough one with that bright orange jersey. This year helmets seem to be extra glossy as well. Southern Miss has been the worst offender of any school I have played against so far.


Tackling - I know that in real life, there are many players who just don't use proper form when tackling, but the few animations in the game of "bad tackling" look so silly and so horrible that all I can do is cringe every time I see it. Take the QB sack for an example. Your end or LBer comes blazing in to drive the QB into the ground and yet the QB starts some move that looks like something out of Michael Jackson's Thriller video and it's not until a second defender eventually comes along that the QB is taken down. And you see these stupid things happen all over the field. Once in a while you'll see a good, properly formed tackle, but for the love of God, come up w/ a new, less stupid looking animation for the bad form tackles.

It would be nice if the tackles seemed to have more 'weight' behind them. There's too many 'wrap and twist' and not enough 'running through' tackles.


QB Sacks/Incomplete Passes - And while we're talking QB sacks, let's talk about the many times a QB gets drilled, the ball falls out of his hand and is ruled incomplete. I've gone back and watched replays and every single time this should be a fumble. In almost two season's of dynasty it's been ruled a fumble exactly one time.

Yeah, this seems to have been a bigger issue the last two years.





Injured Players - During a game you will lose one of your guys to an injury - concussion, separated shoulder, etc... yet after the game, if you win, there he'll be cheering and looking perfectly healthy. Yeah, it's a minor thing but come on... it kills any hope of realism.

I'd add that Formation Packages not recognizing injuries/mass subs is worth noting as well. For example, if your top HB gets hurt, using the HB Sub package does nothing. There's no quick way to get the third-string (now second-string) back into the game.


Drums - Is this just me or do the drums pound on and on between plays and right up until you snap the ball way too much this year? Fuck!!! If I want to listen to drums I'll crank up some Led-Zeppelin. A football game is NOT where I should be hearing the Hammer Of The Gods assaulting my senses. I've literally had them pounding - loudly and annoyingly - down to :02 on the play clock.

I think part of that is an attempt to keep the game lively versus a bunch of dead air (or just crowd noise). I've noticed cadence-overload as well, but I'm not sure toning them back is a simple, pure solution.


Bowl Game Trophy Celebrations - I thought EA claimed that this year you would see a trophy presentation for every Conference Championship and every Bowl win? Yet I won the :Insight_Bowl: and there was no trophy presentation. Of course, I've been told there's no trophy presentation for the National Championship either. :fp: And this from a company who uses Heisman Challenge as a key marketing point and yet has no Heisman presentation in the game.

I think the bowl cutscenes are for BCS games only. There should be a NC presentation....the individual who told you that may want to check again.

The lack of a Heisman Ceremony is a definite :fp:, there's no way around that one.


CPU QB Completion % - In an era where a lot of team's pass the ball, I've seen the CPU guys hitting 12 of 40, 6 of 31, 11 of 29, 4 of 22 - and NO, I am NOT making these up. These are in the Studio Updates! I just don't get it. How can so many things be so broken?

I had a really high QB passing statline in an update once - I should have wrote it down. You're right, most are pretty low. However if I understand it correctly, fixing them in Updates means that simulated CPU numbers are going to get a huge boost (if the completions end up increasing yardage). Though, perhaps the sim completion numbers can be tuned separately of yardage. (I know that doesn't make sense, but I think it is correct.)

[Dr Death]

What kind of sound system are you on?

I have a 5.1 Surround System w/ Bose Speakers. But trust me, that :Oklahoma: game was just a head-scratcher. Their crowd seemed totally dead. But my main point of concern was that EA made a point of saying how the crowds would be better this year and so far, in 1 year and 11 games of dynasty, I haven't noticed any improvement, in fact, it seems worse than ever. And I play w/ the crowd level at 100 and the stereo cranked.


Nessler also often says that a team is 'confused' when they call a timeout. Quite often the timeout is for obvious clock management reasons, so his comment seems odd, if not annoying.

Yes, that's something I should have added. That whole "Texas is confused..." thing is just not right.


I've read others say they see a lot of upsets, but so far in my Dynasty Games I rarely get upset Updates. It makes some sense though as Updates in real life usually center on big games in-progress or upsets completed/in the making.

Let me put it this way... in seven different dynasties that I know of, in every one :Arkansas_State: has beaten :Oregon: at :Oregon:. It seems like it's pre-determined. And every week there are upsets. Lots of them in the "Studio Updates."



Is this in the out of the box schedules, after doing Custom Schedules in OD, or where?

Both. Out of the box, no changes made and custom conferences. All in OFF-LIne dynasty.


Some of that may be bad luck or odds. AFAIK, each name (first/last) has a % likelihood of being generated. That is pretty funny that you've seen a herd of Holycrosses. :D

I just think of Jeff and smile... :D


I'd add that Formation Packages not recognizing injuries/mass subs is worth noting as well. For example, if your top HB gets hurt, using the HB Sub package does nothing. There's no quick way to get the third-string (now second-string) back into the game.

Yep! Agree 100%!


I think part of that is an attempt to keep the game lively versus a bunch of dead air (or just crowd noise). I've noticed cadence-overload as well, but I'm not sure toning them back is a simple, pure solution.

Lively though it may be, those damn drums are annoying. Like I said, if I want to hear great drums, I'll crank up "When The Levee Breaks" by Zeppelin! :D



The lack of a Heisman Ceremony is a definite :fp:, there's no way around that one.

Again, agree 100%!

[jaymo76]

Just to chime in, Dr. Death, I appreciate your commentary and feedback in trying to improve the game. I agree with most of what you said. I also agree with the folks that say name calling is taking it too far and that is something I don't want to see on this site (as it was a reason why I and a few others left another "unnamed"site). We all want a truly great game and I believe that taking the high road is always the way to go. I try to post like I try to live my life aka the type of posts I make are pretty much a reflection of the type of person I am. But regardless, I truly do appreciate your ideas and I consider you to be a key contributor to our community. I sure as heck know a lot more about Run and Shoot since you began posting on the topic.

I would also like to thank the mods for allowing this thread to stay open. In the last page or so the discussion has become far more tangible and constructive and I think a document that most people on this site buy into would go along way with the tiburon staff. The same ideas/concerns keep emerging and the more discussion that can be stimulated, so much the better. When people on this site work together for a common goal, the results are pretty impressive!

For me here are ten issues I would love to see fixed in the near future:

1. OL Blocking is absolutely attrocious
2. Stats and overlays are almost non-existent
3. Crowd noise for big games~ pretty weak (unless I am wearing my headset and then it's fairly strong)
4. Option running/pistol runing/shotgun running.... far too often the cpu won't make it past the line of scrimmage
5. Trophy ceremonies... I have NOT seen ONE thus far
6. Freezing issues... I have experienced FIVE now (PS3 at the half or end of the game & once on the loading screen)
7. Scheduling glitch... in C-USA my out of division games don't change (three seasons in and I always play Marshall and Memphis... no one else from the other div).
8. Coachin carousel~ all coaches are rated as D+ (plus the job secuirty screen always shows the ACC HEAD COACHES rather than all the NCAA)
9. Injuries... I see far too few. Is there any way a Maddenesque injury slider can be patched in???
10. cpu: calling Timeouts, playing second stringers, pulling a struggling QB... all fom last gen that don't work well in the PS3 era

[gigemaggs99]

ala Jeff, WARNING RANT AHEAD :mad:


I'm confused, annoyed and lost. I came to the TGT because of posts like this on the other sites. I was looking, hoping to leave that stuff behind.

When it comes down to it, here's how I look at it. Everyone works hard for their money. If you don't like the game don't continue to buy it. Rent it confirm your suspicions that it's not what you're hoping for and move on.

Every single year this goes on and on, how bad EA sucks or how bad this game is or has become or whatever. Then someone brings up some 2k game I've never played and they talk about how awesome it was/is. If it's so awesome why do they not continue to play it and stop wasting their time on these other versions which is sounds like they are really only looking for the negatives.

The "other" sites post threads like, "which was your favorite ncaa" "what version did you like the best".....I laugh my butt off at those and I'm probably too much of smart-a$$ so I take the bait and play the silly game, I usually respond with JUST what their question is begging, I usually say something to the effect of "NONE, THIS GAME SUCKS, THIS GAME ALWAYS SUCKS, EA SUCKS...." weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Here is my other thought, I don't play all the games that they make for PS3, I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands. I sure as heck don't find one I dislike, find all the things wrong with it, type a HUGE article on it, find a forum, register there and post how the game sucks. If I don't like a game I rent or buy, I return the rental or sell/trade it in. I don't go out of my way to tell the forums how the game sucks. Just seems like a waste of time.

I don't work for a video game company but I'm just thinking here, that they already have people that test the games out. Do they miss things, yes, are they human, yes. Are they going to take consumer reports seriously that begin with "JESUS CHRIST"...I don't think so, I wouldn't if I was reading it.

There are other posts like this, and they truely baffle me. There is this other site that has a topic, "Didn't buy the game for the first time in years...." then it goes on to show some glitch, something about calling a pass play vs a man defense, then running no huddle, calling a run play, audible this to a pass play, audible back to a run, then back to a pass, and oh by the way this ONLY works vs Man coverage. Then somehow after doing all this, it leaves the defense in all QB spy so you can pass the ball to wide open receivers.

ARE YOU SERIOUS? I see things like this and my question is, WHY ON EARTH do you take the time to even test things like this out? I've been playing NCAA since around 1997 and I've never called 4-5 audibles and no-huddle in 1 play just to see if it messes w/ the A.I. Then to go on and test it again vs Zone to find out it's not an issue.....that's overboard if you ask me. Those people are just LOOKING for a reason to say the game is broken. Who plays football, sim-style football like that?

Thanks for listening, good luck with your list of things you find wrong. In the end if EA is making 51% of their customers happy they are successful.

[skipwondah33]

ARE YOU SERIOUS? I see things like this and my question is, WHY ON EARTH do you take the time to even test things like this out? I've been playing NCAA since around 1997 and I've never called 4-5 audibles and no-huddle in 1 play just to see if it messes w/ the A.I. Then to go on and test it again vs Zone to find out it's not an issue.....that's overboard if you ask me. Those people are just LOOKING for a reason to say the game is broken. Who plays football, sim-style football like that?.Thing is you don't have to do that to find things wrong in the game.

I've been playing NCAA for that long as well, Madden even longer. There were always times when I'd say to myself "this should be in the game, how is this happening". Thus the main reason I wanted to get into working in the video game industry..still working on that actually lol.

There will never be a perfect game. I'd personally just like to know what the developmental cycle is on things. I think there are things that are blatantly obvious that need fixed year in and year out...yet they seem to happen again and again in each version...meanwhile some new fancy mode is introduced. Just sucks to have a new fancy mode introduced but not the underlying problems with Gameplay be band-aided up.

And again this goes for both NCAA and Madden.

[Dr Death]

ala Jeff, WARNING RANT AHEAD :mad:

Rant on, Gig... rant on! But just to clarify some things... my post didn't start w/ JESUS CHRIST! And I didn't "test" calling fifteen audibles to find a bug. Everything I found - and everything Beartide06 found - were found playing dynasty and playing as "Sim" as we could. Some of this stuff is just too obvious to miss and most of it was in last year's game.

Just... ya know... to clarify. :)

[Deuce]

Lol...I think Dr. Death has got the point. :)

Maybe it changed his opinion, maybe it didn't. I think we can leave him alone now. Ha ha.

[PeteyKirch]

Just to chime in, Dr. Death, I appreciate your commentary and feedback in trying to improve the game. I agree with most of what you said. I also agree with the folks that say name calling is taking it too far and that is something I don't want to see on this site (as it was a reason why I and a few others left another "unnamed"site). We all want a truly great game and I believe that taking the high road is always the way to go. I try to post like I try to live my life aka the type of posts I make are pretty much a reflection of the type of person I am. But regardless, I truly do appreciate your ideas and I consider you to be a key contributor to our community. I sure as heck know a lot more about Run and Shoot since you began posting on the topic.

I would also like to thank the mods for allowing this thread to stay open. In the last page or so the discussion has become far more tangible and constructive and I think a document that most people on this site buy into would go along way with the tiburon staff. The same ideas/concerns keep emerging and the more discussion that can be stimulated, so much the better. When people on this site work together for a common goal, the results are pretty impressive!

For me here are ten issues I would love to see fixed in the near future:

1. OL Blocking is absolutely attrocious
2. Stats and overlays are almost non-existent
3. Crowd noise for big games~ pretty weak (unless I am wearing my headset and then it's fairly strong)
4. Option running/pistol runing/shotgun running.... far too often the cpu won't make it past the line of scrimmage
5. Trophy ceremonies... I have NOT seen ONE thus far
6. Freezing issues... I have experienced FIVE now (PS3 at the half or end of the game & once on the loading screen)
7. Scheduling glitch... in C-USA my out of division games don't change (three seasons in and I always play Marshall and Memphis... no one else from the other div).
8. Coachin carousel~ all coaches are rated as D+ (plus the job secuirty screen always shows the ACC HEAD COACHES rather than all the NCAA)
9. Injuries... I see far too few. Is there any way a Maddenesque injury slider can be patched in???
10. cpu: calling Timeouts, playing second stringers, pulling a struggling QB... all fom last gen that don't work well in the PS3 era

But Ben said they tweaked and fixed the main issues of the CC this year during the Machinama NCAA13 stream

[OSUCowboyofMD]

-A school like :UAB: doesn't have a fan base but if they were to travel to :LSU:, that whole away section is filled with more fans than they'd have at a home game!
-There's too many instances where the CPU QB would drop back for a hail mary or a screen pass and just stand there and get sacked!
-CPU is constantly zig zagging down the field
-All the equipment should be revamped
-EA talks about the details all the time and yet schools like :Arizona: and :Washington: have had their uniforms wrong 2 years in a row.
-Some turf looks like grass
-Some stadium noises do not sound anything life-like. For example, :Oregon: 's tochdown horn, :Arizona_State: firing fireworks after every score, :TCU: 's frog horn, Pistol Pete or the :West_Virginia: Mountaineer firing they're guns like they do.
-Crowd noise is still boring. No you don't get the feel of true game atmosphere. Where's the student sections and cheers, school authentic music besides fight songs, first down chants by the crowds, etc. I could go on with that lol
-Coaches celebrating with headsets
-If the trophy is in the game, at least have some sort of presentation show or something
-KR/PR camera. :smh: Hate it
-Buying teambuilder slots -__- can we at least have more than 10 free slots?!
-Cheerleaders wearing summer outfits in 20 degree snowy weather
-Option plays are broken. Whether it's you running the option and cheesing through the defense or the CPU doing it and losing yards every single time
-Injuries don't feel real. A guy breaks a collarbone and he's on the ground shaking his head, grabbing his knee while the ball is moving in and out the guy. A player got carted off the field with a broken wrist one time like, WHAT?! Say a guy injured his elbow really badly. Why would he be back the next week with no padding or brace on?

I know most of these don't seem like a big deal but sometimes it's just the little things ya know

[gschwendt]

You should get at least 10 free Team Builder slots unless I'm missing something.

[OSUCowboyofMD]

You should get at least 10 free Team Builder slots unless I'm missing something.

Oh crap. Why did I say that? lol smh thanks for pointing that out I meant to say more than 10 slots, *does ninja editing* :D

[Deuce]

You actually get 12 free sluts...I mean slots

[ram29jackson]

you get 12 slots,not 10

[gigemaggs99]

Rant on, Gig... rant on! But just to clarify some things... my post didn't start w/ JESUS CHRIST! And I didn't "test" calling fifteen audibles to find a bug. Everything I found - and everything Beartide06 found - were found playing dynasty and playing as "Sim" as we could. Some of this stuff is just too obvious to miss and most of it was in last year's game.

Just... ya know... to clarify. :)


Fair enough sir. I've always enjoyed the X's and O's talk and the "fun side" of this hobby. I just need to stay quiet as I enjoy this game. It has it's flaws but I think probably every video game does.

[I OU a Beatn]

Yes, every game has it's flaws, but once again, there is no other game on the market that is released yearly with the exact same problems as the year before(except for Call of Duty and look at all the hate they get). If big issues got fixed year over year, people would be a lot more willing to give EA the benefit of the doubt. There's some people that brush off massive issues as little ones that you can ignore. How am I supposed to ignore a defender running a route AHEAD of my receiver? That's just one example. They've had 7 years now on this current generation of consoles and the pass rush is just as bad as it's always been. It has never been improved. Then there's times where they mess with shit that doesn't need to be messed with, just like this year. They messed with the user control(made it slower) and have virtually ruined user defense. It is so slow(especially online) and you have almost no control and no ability to make quick movements. No one ever complained about user control on defense, so why change it?

Granted, I don't bash employees of EA with personal attacks, but I can certainly understand how the frustration of this seemingly yearly ritual of EA releasing a broken game can eventually get to people. I've heard the whole "don't play the game" argument hundreds of times over the years and I still don't see how that solves anything. EA doesn't receive hatred because of not being able to develop a functional college football game...they receive the hatred because they have the exclusive license AND they've not shown they're able to make a functional college football game. People WANT to play a good college football game. Trust me, they do. When there's only one option when it comes to college football games and more often times than not it's not up to standards, what are people supposed to do? Forget about their passion and just ignore it? I'm sure that would be beneficial for a lot of people, but I can't see that happening, nor do I want it to happen. I want people to point out issues(obviously without the personal attacks) in hopes that EA can incorporate the feedback and make NCAA a better game.

[Rudy]

Yes, every game has it's flaws, but once again, there is no other game on the market that is released yearly with the exact same problems as the year before(except for Call of Duty and look at all the hate they get). If big issues got fixed year over year, people would be a lot more willing to give EA the benefit of the doubt. There's some people that brush off massive issues as little ones that you can ignore.

I've heard the whole "don't play the game" argument hundreds of times over the years and I still don't see how that solves anything. EA doesn't receive hatred because of not being able to develop a functional college football game...they receive the hatred because they have the exclusive license AND they've not shown they're able to make a functional college football game. People WANT to play a good college football game. Trust me, they do.

Totally agree. I don't like it when people just brush off other's complaints as whining. Everyone has different standards and tastes. Of course some people will love the game, others will hate it and others still in between. These opinions are not debates that can be won or lost and yet too many people act as though they are. I'm more critical than others and when I post my complaints it doesn't bother me if others don't agree. I don't expect them to. I just want to get something off my chest and share my opinion. I do like debating some things but I don't want to get in heated arguments over opinion. A lot of times I just want to say my piece and move on. Dr. Death wasn't trying to convert everyone on the site and get them to hate the game. He was simply frustrated and it boiled over into his rant. That's all I took it as.

[WolverineJay]

I agree with so many things in Dr Death's post EXCEPT the part where he says take out speed threshold. Never, ever remove options! We need more of them - like a fumble and fatigue slider.

As for the people objecting about Dr Death's trashing of the dev team. I do think it's unfair to call them lazy but he's basically called them very incompetent by pointing out everything. Is that the straw that broke the camel's back? I think some of you guys are a little too close to the dev team and/or too PC or sensitive. This was a Grade A rant and often rants get emotional and go too far. I read it like that and just see some of the comments being out of frustration.

As far as not forwarding this to EA to have them fix anything because it's too hate filled, I don't think it matters at all. The EA dev team does what they want and how they want it. Many of these issues have been around for years so why should we ever think it's going to be fixed in a patch or even in NCAA 14? I've lost all hope with this series and the current dev team.

I completely agree with this post especially the bolded part because at the end of the day it is EA Tiburon's sole discretion to fix, change, add, or remove all of the bugs, glitches, AI failures, etc... And in the end we get the EA Tiburon development team's sole vision of both NCAA and Madden. I say rant on if it makes you feel better. I am an adult and can take it if somebody wants to vent about a video game.

[JeffHCross]

Seems like this thread has cooled down, so while I'd love to reply to a bunch of comments made throughout the day, I'll just cherry pick a few things to say. And hopefully not start the fire all over again.

How this doesn't get under your skin is beyond me.You give me much more credit than I'm due, if you think it isn't getting under my skin (see another reply below). Or if you think last year didn't get deep under my skin.


I do think it's unfair to call them lazy but he's basically called them very incompetent by pointing out everything.Then let your words speak for themselves. If someone reads a massive list of bugs and decides for themselves "God, these guys must be stupid or something", that's how it will be. Just don't post that conclusion for them, especially in an otherwise bad-ass post.


I remember when I first became an athletic trainer, anytime someone got hurt, my advice was to put ice on it.Alright, I'll fess up ... that was the advice our trainer gave too, and I thought he was off his rocker. Then again, we joked that "ice and advil" was his response to broken bones ... (not sure if it was a joke).


But as others have said it's really unnecessary for the whole HOW DID EA MISS THIS :fp: :bang: :fp: :smh: Honestly, for my money, even HOW DID THEY MISS THIS is okay. Shout it from the rooftops if you want to. I've done it before, and I'll do it again.


My biggest question is how - after last year's game, which I believe all here would agree was a total failure - could EA release a game w/ this many problems in it? I simply don't get that.:+1: I agree. While I don't think NCAA 13 is a problem on the level that NCAA 12 was (for one reason, I believe you see some problems that the rest of us don't, at least with the same frequency and import, because of your relatively-unique offensive style). I fully hoped that EA would come out guns blazing this year and blow us away with a quality product. I didn't expect it, because of factors beyond their control, but I had my hope. There was a time before release that I was considering cancelling my pre-order, even. I'm glad I didn't, because my experience in the Powerhouse OD has been a positive one thus far, and I did miss that experience a lot last year. But that doesn't mean there aren't :smh: moments.


Some of that may be bad luck or odds. AFAIK, each name (first/last) has a % likelihood of being generated. That is pretty funny that you've seen a herd of Holycrosses. :DI've seen one (and only one) since we randomly had that one coach named Holycross last year during the Community Day events. Fucker wouldn't come to my Powerhouse OD team though. Some other school grabbed him. I was peeved.


Nessler also often says that a team is 'confused' when they call a timeout. Quite often the timeout is for obvious clock management reasons, so his comment seems odd, if not annoying.I think, quite simply, that a lot of the audio triggers are backwards. Kirk has, for years, said that a QB threw an "out route" when it's clearly an "in route". This year you also have the "they're confused" on timeouts and, as Dr. Death mentioned, Kirk saying a QB was throwing into traffic when there was no one nearby.


ARE YOU SERIOUS? I see things like this and my question is, WHY ON EARTH do you take the time to even test things like this out?I can't speak for Dr. Death ... but my day job is a tester. So sometimes I test shit out for just the reason you said ... to find out if it breaks it. I can't help myself :D Not to exploit it, but instead to post it somewhere so it can be passed on.

And, as Skip said, sometimes you don't have to try that hard. I found a bug during the Community Day events last year, and all I did was normal pre-snap stuff. It just happened to trigger a bug.


I do like debating some things but I don't want to get in heated arguments over opinion. A lot of times I just want to say my piece and move on. Dr. Death wasn't trying to convert everyone on the site and get them to hate the game. He was simply frustrated and it boiled over into his rant. That's all I took it as.Personal viewpoint: WHAT is good. As in what is the bug, what is the situation, etc. How long it's been around is another good thing. It's the "WHY it's there" and "HOW it got there" that we shouldn't be answering. No one on this forum is qualified to answer either of those questions. We can take guesses and suggest possibilities from a technical standpoint, but coming to any conclusion about how a bug was missed is probably better left outside our purview.


I completely agree with this post especially the bolded part because at the end of the day it is EA Tiburon's sole discretion to fix, change, add, or remove all of the bugs, glitches, AI failures, etc... And in the end we get the EA Tiburon development team's sole vision of both NCAA and Madden.Agreed. There have been several times where I've been frustrated by a change or bug ... only to realize that it was probably by design. Them's the breaks.

[JeffHCross]

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ...

While I was pondering this thread during the day, I thought of some examples that are worth sharing to the community at large. Hopefully they can all give us just a little bit more perspective on what these guys (and others in industries like theirs) do on a day-to-day basis.


The ~11,500 computer servers that will power the Olympic games have gone through 200,000 hours (http://techland.time.com/2012/07/03/olympic-experts-sure-they-can-repel-cyber-threats/) of testing. Just to put it in perspective, that's roughly a half-hour of play time for everyone that has bought NCAA Football 13 so far. No company can simulate the amount of testing that consumers will put a product through.
The Mars Orbiter (http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/1999/10/01/space-mars-n-l-21/) was lost because one team used the English measurement system and the other used Metric. Stupid mistake? Yes. Stupid people? It's NASA. This was mentioned on Day One of my software development major, as a cautionary tale about getting into this field. "Human" mistakes, in software, can have tremendously large consequences.
Q: Why did LA Noire take seven years to make? A: Team Bondi was hell (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1179020p1.html).

[gigemaggs99]

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ...

While I was pondering this thread during the day, I thought of some examples that are worth sharing to the community at large. Hopefully they can all give us just a little bit more perspective on what these guys (and others in industries like theirs) do on a day-to-day basis.


The ~11,500 computer servers that will power the Olympic games have gone through 200,000 hours (http://techland.time.com/2012/07/03/olympic-experts-sure-they-can-repel-cyber-threats/) of testing. Just to put it in perspective, that's roughly a half-hour of play time for everyone that has bought NCAA Football 13 so far. No company can simulate the amount of testing that consumers will put a product through.
The Mars Orbiter (http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/1999/10/01/space-mars-n-l-21/) was lost because one team used the English measurement system and the other used Metric. Stupid mistake? Yes. Stupid people? It's NASA. This was mentioned on Day One of my software development major, as a cautionary tale about getting into this field. "Human" mistakes, in software, can have tremendously large consequences.
Q: Why did LA Noire take seven years to make? A: Team Bondi was hell (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1179020p1.html).



Those are some cool stats, which makes me wonder....why in the world or how in the world can FOX mess up with their NFL coverage? It may not always be FOX but here in Texas, even during the superbowl a few years ago the sound and the picture are WAY off, there was a BIG delay and at times the sound would come through like they were talking on AM radio. Other times through-out the season the HD will go out. How do they not have a backup computer/server whatever it takes to make it work? They aren't broadcasting a high school game, it's the NFL!

[Dr Death]

Seems like this thread has cooled down, so while I'd love to reply to a bunch of comments made throughout the day, I'll just cherry pick a few things to say. And hopefully not start the fire all over again.


Jeff, as I've said before and will continue to say; you and I are good, and I believe you know that. We've shared enough PM's and shared ideas on the forum that by now I believe you know I have absolutely no problem w/ you. I do understand that certain things trigger something for you based on your work, but I never intentionally tried to anger you... my anger is - and always has been - directed at EA.

You know I respect you and always have fun w/ you.

I do know that Beartide06 had a major situation tonight and I don't want to go into detail since it's his personal life, but it just may be that I have to end up posting his list of 100+ things wrong in the game. And if that pans out, I will only post his bullet points and will make no further comments or "commentary," no matter how difficult that may be for me! :D :D :D

[JeffHCross]

Jeff, as I've said before and will continue to say; you and I are good, and I believe you know that. We've shared enough PM's and shared ideas on the forum that by now I believe you know I have absolutely no problem w/ you. I do understand that certain things trigger something for you based on your work, but I never intentionally tried to anger you... my anger is - and always has been - directed at EA.Completely understand man. Never took it any other way. That was less directed at you and more directed at my hope to not inspire another four pages of this thread by this time tomorrow :D


but it just may be that I have to end up posting his list of 100+ things wrong in the game. And if that pans out, I will only post his bullet points and will make no further comments or "commentary," no matter how difficult that may be for me! :D :D :DIn a past life I was a newspaper editor, so feel free to send it my way if you're not sure you can control yourself ;)

[morsdraconis]

FUCK EA!!!!!!!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-im_CKn9PPI8/T0dtSJ0lUFI/AAAAAAAAAzY/0vIyQ9SYpt4/s200/abe-simpson-gif.gif

;)

[JBHuskers]

:D

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[Pantera1968]

I will be the first to admit that I sorely lacking in knowledge about producing video games. I just try to look at things logically from a consumer's point of view. I can understand that from year to year it is impossible to address every issue. What really disappoints me is that a feature/improvement touted one year is gone the next year.

For instance, I believe it was last year that EA touted suction blocking/tackling being addressed and for the most part I think it was. This year, though, it seems to me that CPU suction tackling is darn near as bad as it EVER was.

Also, for the last few years there has been blocking assignments for the o-linemen when you use the coaches cam. This year they are gone. Why?

I can understand building on a game each year. I just can't understand why things that work one year don't work the next year.

[JeffHCross]

I will be the first to admit that I sorely lacking in knowledge about producing video games.

I can understand building on a game each year. I just can't understand why things that work one year don't work the next year.Trust me ... those two things are completely unrelated. Understanding game development doesn't make it any easier to understand why things are removed.

I know last year the blocking assignments were ... a little glitchy ... for the o-linemen. And I think they may have been removed at some point via a patch. But that still doesn't explain why something that was highly touted two years ago is now utterly gone.

FWIW, I haven't personally felt like there is much suction tackling.

[souljahbill]

My God! This horrible habit of blockers running into the area of defenders, STOPPING, then turning around to try and block a defender on the backside of the runner HAS GOT TO END!!!!! My own offense has ended more drives then good defense. Why can't my lead blockers suction block like the CPU's o-line?! I had one play, where I was the DT and I beat the center where I was literally TURNED AROUND to engage in a block. My DT and the CPU C literally switched places and, of course, the CPU then hits a wide open receiver for a 40-yd pass because zone sucks so you're forced to play man but with no pass rush because everyone is sucked into the blocks, receivers can't stay covered and are wide open (how about that run on sentence?).

Please patch, take me away!
#Calgon

[ram29jackson]

There's no way a patch will fix all that.

[souljahbill]

There's no way a patch will fix all that.

Yeah, I know. Just felt like venting. I'm better know.

[jaymo76]

My God! This horrible habit of blockers running into the area of defenders, STOPPING, then turning around to try and block a defender on the backside of the runner HAS GOT TO END!!!!! My own offense has ended more drives then good defense.


Please patch, take me away!
#Calgon

+ 1 billion!!!

[JeffHCross]

Strange. Haven't seen any suction blocking this year. At least not the "magically turned around" version that was a major complaint on NCAA 11. It can't be sliders (can it?), because I think the majority of us are playing with the same and/or similar sliders.

EDIT: Then again, I've had no pass rush to speak of, so maybe I'm not the best example :D

[jaymo76]

Strange. Haven't seen any suction blocking this year. At least not the "magically turned around" version that was a major complaint on NCAA 11. It can't be sliders (can it?), because I think the majority of us are playing with the same and/or similar sliders.

EDIT: Then again, I've had no pass rush to speak of, so maybe I'm not the best example :D

It's not really the suction, it's the brain dead nature of blockers. They run to the area and then turn in the wrong direction so the defender passes them.

[souljahbill]

Strange. Haven't seen any suction blocking this year. At least not the "magically turned around" version that was a major complaint on NCAA 11. It can't be sliders (can it?), because I think the majority of us are playing with the same and/or similar sliders.

EDIT: Then again, I've had no pass rush to speak of, so maybe I'm not the best example :D

Play as a D-Lineman. You'll see it.

And I haven't touched sliders. Default AA.

[JeffHCross]

Play as a D-Lineman. You'll see it.I play as a lineman on every snap. And, since you don't play with the sliders, maybe they make a difference. I thought you were playing with Death and/or Steeler's sliders as well.

[souljahbill]

I play as a lineman on every snap. And, since you don't play with the sliders, maybe they make a difference. I thought you were playing with Death and/or Steeler's sliders as well.

Gotcha. You really don't see the suction? Granted, the flip lineman thing has only happened once but more then a few times, I've beat a G or C and got sucked into another block.

[JeffHCross]

Like I said earlier, I'm not getting much of a pass rush right now, especially from my front four.

Now, that said, one of the major problems in years past was that a free blitzer could come off from the edge, and if a non-engaged G/C/RB came anywhere near him, he'd be sucked into a block. I'm not seeing that at all, if I have a free blitzer (which I've had my fair share of those).

[SCClassof93]

Like I said earlier, I'm not getting much of a pass rush right now, especially from my front four.

Now, that said, one of the major problems in years past was that a free blitzer could come off from the edge, and if a non-engaged G/C/RB came anywhere near him, he'd be sucked into a block. I'm not seeing that at all, if I have a free blitzer (which I've had my fair share of those).

Pass rush? I thought my guys were ball room dancing or something with the OL. They certainly don't seem interested in the QB :fp:

[gigemaggs99]

wrong section.

[thirtydaZe]

Instant Commit Bug: While recruiting via the web has anyone noticed while making a phone call, and the recruit commits, there isn't any notification, your call topics go blank? You then have to back out of the call, refresh your recruiting board, to find the guy you were in the phone call with commited.

Then generally, when you go to make the next phone call it won't let you, and pops up a message stating that you are already in a call.

Today, i had to completely log out, log back in and then proceed with making calls.

Hopefully i'm not alone in seeing this.

[gschwendt]

Instant Commit Bug: While recruiting via the web has anyone noticed while making a phone call, and the recruit commits, there isn't any notification, your call topics go blank? You then have to back out of the call, refresh your recruiting board, to find the guy you were in the phone call with commited.

Then generally, when you go to make the next phone call it won't let you, and pops up a message stating that you are already in a call.

Today, i had to completely log out, log back in and then proceed with making calls.

Hopefully i'm not alone in seeing this.
Nope, I experienced this yesterday after someone had previously mentioned it to me. You'll get a call screen with some of the usual options missing but you'll also notice that your recruit now has a blue check mark above his picture. You can then just click the Recruiting tab to return back to your board. It will prompt you saying "are you sure" because you'll lose time, but say yes and you won't lose anytime, only the 10 minutes you normally would for an instant commit. Of note, this only happens when you've offered a scholarship on a previous call, thus the instant commit happens as soon as the call starts. If you offer during the call and he commits then, the bug won't occur.

I sent all of these details to EA yesterday so hopefully it's something they can square away soon.

[thirtydaZe]

Nope, I experienced this yesterday after someone had previously mentioned it to me. You'll get a call screen with some of the usual options missing but you'll also notice that your recruit now has a blue check mark above his picture. You can then just click the Recruiting tab to return back to your board. It will prompt you saying "are you sure" because you'll lose time, but say yes and you won't lose anytime, only the 10 minutes you normally would for an instant commit. Of note, this only happens when you've offered a scholarship on a previous call, thus the instant commit happens as soon as the call starts. If you offer during the call and he commits then, the bug won't occur.

I sent all of these details to EA yesterday so hopefully it's something they can square away soon.

right on, that's being on top of it. this is certainly the place to come for all of our dynasty wire needs!

thanks.