'Batman' Theater Shooting in Aurora, CO

[souljahbill]

Some asshole killed a bunch of people at a midnight showing in Colorado including kids. Came in the theater with mad guns, gas bombs, and wore a bullet-proof vest. After ruining people's lives, the fucker just gave himself up without a fight to the cops.

They shouldn't put this guy in jail. They should put this dude in a room with no windows and let family members of people who lost their spouse, their parent, their child, or whatever get 5 minutes in the room with the only rule is, don't kill him. Do what you want but just make sure he's alive when you finish. He needs his ass kicked to holy hell and jail or death by injection is to civil for this son of a bitch.

[Marlowe]

Hope none of you were at this theatre. Biggest movie of the summer and some idiot has to screw it up.

14 shot dead at 'Dark Knight Rises' screening in Aurora, Coloradohttp://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/20/12850048-14-shot-dead-at-dark-knight-rises-screening-in-aurora-colorado?lite

[JeffHCross]

@Marlowe: Hell of a lot more than just 'screw it up.'

@World: Jesus.

EDIT: Clarified in case it wasn't clear that the latter comment wasn't pointed at Marlowe.

[Marlowe]

Well the original post had some colorful expletives in it but decided to edit them out.

[skipwondah33]

This was a straight up bitch move.

No death penalty, put him in the general population in Max some where and let him get assaulted a few times.

Its bull shit these types of people do this when people can't shoot back or defend themselves.

[CLW]

This was a straight up bitch move.

No death penalty, put him in the general population in Max some where and let him get assaulted a few times.

Its bull shit these types of people do this when people can't shoot back or defend themselves.

Agree

Disagree. I don't know what the law in CO is but if its available the death penalty is clearly appropriate for an obvious premeditated mass murder.

Well I largely believe these whack jobs do this because they BELIEVE/KNOW noone will fight back (at least until the Cops respond/arrive). Think that guy would have had the guts to pull a stunt like this in Texas (where even many women pack heat)? Doubtful. When good people carry guns and know how to use them they can stop/limit the damage when whack jobs attempt to attack. Studies have repeatedly shown that when you have a good gun culture and reasonable conceal carry laws gun crime goes down. Why? Because the thugs don't know who is and who isn't packing and they are too chicken to take on someone who might (or might not) be carrying themselves.

[skipwondah33]

Well yeah I definitely believe he should get the death penalty but make him suffer a bit before. Obviously he had no regard for his own life and was likely prepared to die.

[souljahbill]

Well yeah I definitely believe he should get the death penalty but make him suffer a bit before. Obviously he had no regard for his own life and was likely prepared to die.

He was wearing a bullet-proof vest.

[gschwendt]

One of the victims narrowly avoided a shooting one month earlier.
http://gordonkeith.wordpress.com/2012/07/20/jessica-redfield-was-killed-narrowly-avoided-previous-shooting/
http://jessicaredfield.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/late-night-thoughts-on-the-eaton-center-shooting/

[skipwondah33]

He was wearing a bullet-proof vest.Still believe he was prepared to die...if the cops shot he would have not made out alive likely.

[JBHuskers]

Just came through the wire. The shooter's apartment was booby trapped with flammable and explosive traps.

[AustinWolv]

He was wearing a bullet-proof vest.

The shooter's apartment was booby trapped with flammable and explosive traps.

He wanted to cause as much damage as possible. What a complete dirtbag (in order to keep language clean). I'm sure news reports will dig into motive and his statements as time goes on if he wanted to die or not, but he probably was ok with the idea of dying as long as he could cause as much damage as he could.
Hope that cockroach gets what he deserves and feel very, very badly for the families.

BTW, I keep seeing people on twitter or what have you lamenting that it isn't even safe to go to the movies anymore..........when was it? Nowhere you go is completely safe. There aren't cops or superheroes hanging around everywhere you go to protect you. Anything can happen at any time, you just don't know. From a car accident to a shooting to a bridge's structure failing.......you just don't know. Be vigilant and survive.

[NatureBoy]

They should beat the living fool out of the piece of trash every hour on the hour. I just saw where there was a 3-month-old baby was at the theater at the time of the shooting. Why in the world would you bring a 3-month old baby to a theater at midnight to a loud, action movie?

[AustinWolv]

Why in the world would you bring a 3-month old baby to a theater at midnight to a loud, action movie?
Probably young parents who could not afford a babysitter or couldn't find one. Plus kids that age can just plain sleep through most anything, at least mine could. I wouldn't do it, but I could imagine someone doing it for sure.

[skipwondah33]

They should beat the living fool out of the piece of trash every hour on the hour. I just saw where there was a 3-month-old baby was at the theater at the time of the shooting. Why in the world would you bring a 3-month old baby to a theater at midnight to a loud, action movie?Which is why I am in favor of him doing some time in Max before being executed. They will definitely take care of him real good in there I'm sure. Or they can get creative and put him in an enclosure with a Grizzly Bear or Lion..make it two.

And yeah the motive to bring a 3-month old child to a movie such as that at that time of hour is mind boggling. Even if they didn't have a sitter you have to stop and think..prioritize.."do we really need to see this movie this badly?"

[AustinWolv]

"do we really need to see this movie this badly?"
Oh, I agree. But we're mainly living in a "satisfaction first/need it now" society or at least the last generation or two.

[CLW]

LMAO at ABC news attempting to pen the Tea Party (apparently now all shootings must 1st be blamed on the Tea Party despite NEVER a reported case of a Tea Party Member doing such a thing) with ZERO evidence to support it (hell the guys name didn't even exactly match) Jim / James close enough to blame Republicans at least to the MSM.

Cue the anti-gun lobby in 3.... 2....

[AustinWolv]

No kidding, CLW.

[JBHuskers]

Though it's a terrible story. News media stringing it out for hours on end is so unnecessary. Things like that prove it.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[CLW]

No kidding, CLW.

#1 the shooter was F'D up (obviously)

#2 the media jumps to conclusions with virtually ZERO facts in attempt to be able to say "you heard it hear first". Hell the police are still investigating. Let them do their F'n jobs and the facts will be the facts. - I've seen reports that he was a Tea Party Member and reports that he was a member of the Occupy Movement. OBVIOUSLY the "profile" for a member in those groups are about as different as possible in America


Instead of #2 how about we report what we know (a lone man went into a theatre last night and shot allot of people leaving several dead (the counts are all over the place too - and more importantly the #s don't add/subtract anything from the story) the police are investigating potential bombs/explosives that the man may have set as traps. The suspect is in custody. As soon as we know more we will let you know.

I'M F'N SICK OF THIS [CENSORED]

[skipwondah33]

Grizzly Bear or Lion mauling

[souljahbill]

#1 the shooter was F'D up (obviously)

#2 the media jumps to conclusions with virtually ZERO facts in attempt to be able to say "you heard it hear first". Hell the police are still investigating. Let them do their F'n jobs and the facts will be the facts. - I've seen reports that he was a Tea Party Member and reports that he was a member of the Occupy Movement. OBVIOUSLY the "profile" for a member in those groups are about as different as possible in America


Instead of #2 how about we report what we know (a lone man went into a theatre last night and shot allot of people leaving several dead (the counts are all over the place too - and more importantly the #s don't add/subtract anything from the story) the police are investigating potential bombs/explosives that the man may have set as traps. The suspect is in custody. As soon as we know more we will let you know.

I'M F'N SICK OF THIS [CENSORED]

Point #2 is EXACTLY what HBO's show, The Newsroom is about.

[CLW]

FYI - CO does have the death penalty (and it would certainly apply here as there are "aggrevating circumstances" which trigger the death penalty) but the state has only used it once in the "modern era" if you will for capital punishment.

[souljahbill]

Well, it's obviously premeditated as he went ballistic at an event where he knew there would be a ton of people. I'm surprised he told the cops about the booby traps. I can't lie, I think leaving booby trap bombs is kinda cool. Make no mistake, that shit is wrong as hell but if I were ever planning to be a super asshole like this guy, blowing up some cops as they investigate my place would definitely be one helluva calling card.

[morsdraconis]

Wow. Sick fuckin' motherfucker. :smh:

[JBHuskers]

Okay this will probably sound insensitive, but I'm really tired of the constant coverage this type of stuff gets throughout the day. Every time a little fucking detail comes out BREAKING NEWS!!!111 i.e. the fact the he had bought a movie ticket and was in the crowd to start....do we really need a breaking news for that? All the media (and social media in 2012) are doing is giving this guy what he wants....his name and face all over the country.

[morsdraconis]

Okay this will probably sound insensitive, but I'm really tired of the constant coverage this type of stuff gets throughout the day. Every time a little fucking detail comes out BREAKING NEWS!!!111 i.e. the fact the he had bought a movie ticket and was in the crowd to start....do we really need a breaking news for that? All the media (and social media in 2012) are doing is giving this guy what he wants....his name and face all over the country.

That's why I don't pay attention to any of it. I don't watch TV and I only follow people on Twitter that I actually give a shit about what they say. I don't go to reddit. I don't interact with MOST of the unbelievably annoying parts of the internet/media.

[CLW]

Okay this will probably sound insensitive, but I'm really tired of the constant coverage this type of stuff gets throughout the day. Every time a little fucking detail comes out BREAKING NEWS!!!111 i.e. the fact the he had bought a movie ticket and was in the crowd to start....do we really need a breaking news for that? All the media (and social media in 2012) are doing is giving this guy what he wants....his name and face all over the country.

Yeah I read an interesting article somewhere earlier today from a psychiatrist that basically said something along the lines of these people generally all do it to "become famous". The media coverage they know they are getting turns them on and WORSE people that are similarly F'd up see it on t.v. and it feeds their desire to do the same so the media feeds the beast.

[SmoothPancakes]

He was wearing a bullet-proof vest.

One pop to the head, all it takes. Shit like this is the exact reason I'm getting my CCW sometime in the future. You can't even walk down your fucking neighborhood street and feel safe anymore in some cities.

[steelerfan]

Where was Batman while this was happening? :dunno:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[steelerfan]

That last post out of the way, what a sick motherfucker. :fp: :smh:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[AustinWolv]

One pop to the head, all it takes. Shit like this is the exact reason I'm getting my CCW sometime in the future. You can't even walk down your fucking neighborhood street and feel safe anymore in some cities.

Ever tried to hit a head at 20 yards....while the head and/or you are moving? 10 yards? Not an easy shot with a pistol versus a rifle.

Put two on the vest as the raw force will cause discomfort and then take out the tank treads, i.e. mobility center, i.e. the legs/pelvis area, and then move to head or other regions to further disable mobile centers.

Yes, I shoot a bit. :) CHL here also.
Hardly a pro, but I shoot competition and have attended training from well-known instructors, holding a rifle instructor certification from CSAT.
:)

Not trying to make light of the incident, but it would be a difficult situation for any common person and claiming headshot in those conditions. Good luck, especially since you'd need to highly aware of what is beyond the target and where any misses might be going......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1FecjjYnak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1FecjjYnak

[AustinWolv]

stupid double post

[skipwondah33]

One pop to the head, all it takes. Shit like this is the exact reason I'm getting my CCW sometime in the future. You can't even walk down your fucking neighborhood street and feel safe anymore in some cities.Turns out he wasn't even wearing a bullet-proof vest.

Reports are it was a Blackhawk Tactical vest....

[skipwondah33]

Ever tried to hit a head at 20 yards....while the head and/or you are moving? 10 yards? Not an easy shot with a pistol versus a rifle.

Put two on the vest as the raw force will cause discomfort and then take out the tank treads, i.e. mobility center, i.e. the legs/pelvis area, and then move to head or other regions to further disable mobile centers.

Yes, I shoot a bit. :) CHL here also.
Hardly a pro, but I shoot competition and have attended training from well-known instructors, holding a rifle instructor certification from CSAT.
:)

Not trying to make light of the incident, but it would be a difficult situation for any common person and claiming headshot in those conditions. Good luck, especially since you'd need to highly aware of what is beyond the target and where any misses might be going......

And if you get enough bullets going in a general direction someone is bound to hit something that isn't covered by a bullet proof vest. Example 3-4 cops all shoot at the same target I certainly wouldn't like my chances of NOT getting shot in an exposed area thats for sure.

[souljahbill]

I'll be honest, if people were allowed to carry guns, I don't see how this situation would've been any different. The guy throws a smoke bomb into a dark room and starts to spray the area. If everyone took out their guns in defense, there's a greater chance of hitting a bystander trying to escape then the guy causing the chaos.

[skipwondah33]

And on another note this dude looks completely gone

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/23/justice/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html

[skipwondah33]

I'll be honest, if people were allowed to carry guns, I don't see how this situation would've been any different. The guy throws a smoke bomb into a dark room and starts to spray the area. If everyone took out their guns in defense, there's a greater chance of hitting a bystander trying to escape then the guy causing the chaos.I agree definitely wouldn't have made things better. Though I wonder if people knew others were carrying if this kind of thing happens? Either way he was prepared to diffuse any type of defense anyone could have not only by the element of surprise but the fact he tear gassed the place.

[AustinWolv]

I agree definitely wouldn't have made things better. Though I wonder if people knew others were carrying if this kind of thing happens? Either way he was prepared to diffuse any type of defense anyone could have not only by the element of surprise but the fact he tear gassed the place.

There is a FBI statistic that something like 75+% of active shooter situations are ended by an armed civilian, unarmed civilian or a first-responder LE officer, not SWAT. I'd have to ask my LE friend down here to forward me the link, but in about 1 minute of Google search time:

Single, unarmed civilians have proven most effective at intervening, most likely because they were already on the scene when the attacks started and had the courage to take action. About half the successful interventions were by solo unarmed citizens, according to Borsch's figures.
http://kclea.com/content/view/185/38/
25% are stopped by armed civilians while the other 25% are stopped by first-responder LE.
http://www.examiner.com/article/armed-self-defense-the-stopwatch-of-death

So yes, civilian CHL/CCW holders may have been able to intervene.....not necessarily save everyone, but enough to intervene. Could others have been hit? Sure, always a possibility, BUT that is fundamental decision on the person pulling the trigger to follow firearm basics and in taking the action of carrying a firearm to practice, train, practice, train, learn, and learn to not pull the trigger unless you have the confidence and ability to make the hit. And yes, there are people who don't take that seriously enough.
People who don't take the time to learn and take it seriously and people who doubt in their ability or don't like guns -> I agree with them, they shouldn't have guns.

Can't imagine why most of those active shooter incidents occur in areas where firearms aren't allowed..........

[skipwondah33]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1FecjjYnak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1FecjjYnakI didn't even watch the videos until now. That's you? Shit I don't even think I could have hit the dirt by the time you finished reloading.

[AustinWolv]

I didn't even watch the videos until now. That's you? Shit I don't even think I could have hit the dirt by the time you finished reloading.
Yep. Don't know why I copy/pasted the same video twice. LOL!
One from this past Saturday: :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4hmiFElKgY

[skipwondah33]

Yep. Don't know why I copy/pasted the same video twice. LOL!
One from this past Saturday: :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4hmiFElKgYSweet.

I see you were using your speed burst button during this, especially stage 3. You almost left everyone.

I'd like to get into shooting. Not competitively, just owning my own firearm

[AustinWolv]

LOL, it is good fun and slowly getting better. Still a learning experience every single time.

[JeffHCross]

And on another note this dude looks completely goneHe does, but this quote was thought provoking (from the same article):

Jordan Ghawi, whose sister Jessica was among the 12 fatalities, was not in the courtroom.
...
He described Holmes as a coward and a genius. "I don't believe for a second that he's sitting there with his wide eyes and pretending to be incoherent," Ghawi said. "He knows what he's doing."

[SmoothPancakes]

Addition to some of the arguments for others carrying, you have the deterrent factor. It was a dark theater, so if multiple people had pulled guns, he wouldn't have been able to specifically target them all and try and kill them first, especially not with the clouds of gas in the air distorting his view. If he saw multiple people with guns pointed at him, or was shoot by one of those guns, it very well may have ended the shooting spree sooner, either by taking him down (if he was indeed wearing a tactical vest and not a bulletproof vest), or by scaring him off if he's the one getting shot at and not the one doing the shooting.

Yes, others could have been hit, that will always be a possibility when guns are involved.

[AustinWolv]

He does, but this quote was thought provoking (from the same article):
Jeff, found that interesting and entirely plausible as well when I first read the description that he was just staring off into space, etc. Someone incoherent or "gone" doesn't align with the motivated individual who put all that thought and work into his apartment IED setup.

[skipwondah33]

He does, but this quote was thought provoking (from the same article):Well of course I know that...that is why I said he "looks" gone. I know their defense will likely be that he is mentally incapable or something like that, just saying by first look of the guy I'm not surprised he would do such a thing.

Obviously anyone that does things of these nature have something wrong with them.

[SmoothPancakes]

Jeff, found that interesting and entirely plausible as well when I first read the description that he was just staring off into space, etc. Someone incoherent or "gone" doesn't align with the motivated individual who put all that thought and work into his apartment IED setup.

Yep, this shit was premeditated entirely and he knew exactly what the hell he was doing. To booby trap his apartment to such an extent that it took bomb squads days just to even disable the worst of it (but not all of it), as well as some smaller stuff they had no choice at all but to just plain blow the shit up because they couldn't disable it, there is no way in hell anyone would ever convince me even a tiny, tiny fucking bit that he was mentally incompetent. It took him months to do everything, ordering and building the bombs, buying the guns, ordering ammo and other stuff on the internet. No one will ever convince me this fucker went insane 6 months ago and did all of this shit while insane or incompetent.

[cdj]

Addition to some of the arguments for others carrying, you have the deterrent factor. It was a dark theater, so if multiple people had pulled guns, he wouldn't have been able to specifically target them all and try and kill them first, especially not with the clouds of gas in the air distorting his view. If he saw multiple people with guns pointed at him, or was shoot by one of those guns, it very well may have ended the shooting spree sooner, either by taking him down (if he was indeed wearing a tactical vest and not a bulletproof vest), or by scaring him off if he's the one getting shot at and not the one doing the shooting.

Yes, others could have been hit, that will always be a possibility when guns are involved.

I'd like to submit this story on why people carrying can be a huge benefit. I've bolded a line that I think is most important:


A 71-year old man thwarted a robbery at a Florida internet cafe on Friday when he shot two would-be assailants and the entire ordeal was captured on security tape.

The two robbers burst through the doors of the Palms Internet Cafe in Ocala and ordered everyone to get down as they waved a handgun at dozens of customers.

But they didn't expect Samuel Williams to pull out his own weapon and fire, injuring both of the criminals and saving the lives of his fellow Floridians.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eowwq1DV3J0

Fox reports that the incident occurred just after 10 pm. on Friday.

The surveillance video shows the two men wearing dark clothes barged into the cafe with a baseball bat and a gun.

Witnesses told police that the robbers demanded that the 30 patrons get down on the floor and give them money.


Terrified customers put their hands up in the air, all of them following orders except for Mr Williams.

Kneeling slightly, Mr Williams starts shooting at the men, surprising them with his own attack.

The thugs scramble to exit, falling over each other as Mr Williams chases them out of the cafe.



Once he had sufficiently scared them off, he locked the door and waited for the police to come.

The two men got into a nearby car and fled, witnesses said.

Mr Williams told officers that he was scared the robbers would hurt someone, especially his wife who was sitting nearby him in the cafe.

Officers got a phone call shortly after about two men at a Marion Oaks home who were telling people they had been shot at a nearby baseball field in Ocala.

Investigators searched the field to find evidence of an attack, but found none and arrested the men.


Davis G. Dawkins, 19, and Duwayne Henderson, 19, were transported to Shands Hospital at the University of Florida in Gainesville.

In the heat of the moment, Mr Williams managed to shoot Dawkins' left arm and Henderson's left buttock and his right hip.

Neither one of the teens have a criminal record, authorities said, and both were charged with attempted robbery.

'I feel horrible. It doesn't feel good. It makes you think about life's decisions, and how you should live your life,' Henderson said to the Star-Banner at the jail on Saturday afternoon.

The teen said that they didn't plan to hurt anyone during the robbery, just grab some money and run.

'The gun was broken and rusty and wasn't loaded. Nobody was going to get hurt,' he told the paper; the plan was to 'barge in, get the money and leave.'

He said that neither of the two teens ever 'expected anyone to be armed.'


The two had started to collect cellphones to prevent patrons from calling the police when Mr Williams started shooting.

'I thought I was going to die,' he said. 'I turned around to run and my leg gave out. That was when I got shot. I hit the ground, and he was still shooting.'

The two escaped to a family friend's home in Marion Oaks where the residents called police.

Dawkins told officials that he had recently been an employee at the cafe but was fired, allegedly telling his friend Henderson that there was 'a lot of money there.'

The two hatched their plan to rob the cafe on Friday evening, police said.

Henderson remained in jail late Monday after failing to post $31,000 bond while Dawkins was released Sunday after posting an $11,000 bond.

Charges are not expected to be filed against Mr Williams.

'If he wouldn’t have been there, there could have been some innocent people shot,' Mary Beach, one of the would-be victims of the robbery told the Star-Banner. 'I think he is wonderful.'

Henderson, not surprisingly, isn't enthralled with Mr Williams. He thinks that the elderly man should have stopped shooting once he was already on the ground.

'I was down, and I’m not going to continue to shoot you,' he said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-door.html


In a lot of cases (and I think this may be one of them), if the gunman thought there was a chance of getting fired back at, they might not do it in the first place.

[cdj]

Addition to some of the arguments for others carrying, you have the deterrent factor. It was a dark theater, so if multiple people had pulled guns, he wouldn't have been able to specifically target them all and try and kill them first, especially not with the clouds of gas in the air distorting his view. If he saw multiple people with guns pointed at him, or was shoot by one of those guns, it very well may have ended the shooting spree sooner, either by taking him down (if he was indeed wearing a tactical vest and not a bulletproof vest), or by scaring him off if he's the one getting shot at and not the one doing the shooting.

Yes, others could have been hit, that will always be a possibility when guns are involved.

Here's a story on why people carrying can be a huge benefit. (I didn't hear about this until seeing it mentioned in comments regarding the CO Theater Shooter.) I've bolded a line that I think is worth noting:


A 71-year old man thwarted a robbery at a Florida internet cafe on Friday when he shot two would-be assailants and the entire ordeal was captured on security tape.

The two robbers burst through the doors of the Palms Internet Cafe in Ocala and ordered everyone to get down as they waved a handgun at dozens of customers.

But they didn't expect Samuel Williams to pull out his own weapon and fire, injuring both of the criminals and saving the lives of his fellow Floridians.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9RKMtLcacU

Fox reports that the incident occurred just after 10 pm. on Friday.

The surveillance video shows the two men wearing dark clothes barged into the cafe with a baseball bat and a gun.

Witnesses told police that the robbers demanded that the 30 patrons get down on the floor and give them money.


Terrified customers put their hands up in the air, all of them following orders except for Mr Williams.

Kneeling slightly, Mr Williams starts shooting at the men, surprising them with his own attack.

The thugs scramble to exit, falling over each other as Mr Williams chases them out of the cafe.



Once he had sufficiently scared them off, he locked the door and waited for the police to come.

The two men got into a nearby car and fled, witnesses said.

Mr Williams told officers that he was scared the robbers would hurt someone, especially his wife who was sitting nearby him in the cafe.

Officers got a phone call shortly after about two men at a Marion Oaks home who were telling people they had been shot at a nearby baseball field in Ocala.

Investigators searched the field to find evidence of an attack, but found none and arrested the men.


Davis G. Dawkins, 19, and Duwayne Henderson, 19, were transported to Shands Hospital at the University of Florida in Gainesville.

In the heat of the moment, Mr Williams managed to shoot Dawkins' left arm and Henderson's left buttock and his right hip.

Neither one of the teens have a criminal record, authorities said, and both were charged with attempted robbery.

'I feel horrible. It doesn't feel good. It makes you think about life's decisions, and how you should live your life,' Henderson said to the Star-Banner at the jail on Saturday afternoon.

The teen said that they didn't plan to hurt anyone during the robbery, just grab some money and run.

'The gun was broken and rusty and wasn't loaded. Nobody was going to get hurt,' he told the paper; the plan was to 'barge in, get the money and leave.'

He said that neither of the two teens ever 'expected anyone to be armed.'


The two had started to collect cellphones to prevent patrons from calling the police when Mr Williams started shooting.

'I thought I was going to die,' he said. 'I turned around to run and my leg gave out. That was when I got shot. I hit the ground, and he was still shooting.'

The two escaped to a family friend's home in Marion Oaks where the residents called police.

Dawkins told officials that he had recently been an employee at the cafe but was fired, allegedly telling his friend Henderson that there was 'a lot of money there.'

The two hatched their plan to rob the cafe on Friday evening, police said.

Henderson remained in jail late Monday after failing to post $31,000 bond while Dawkins was released Sunday after posting an $11,000 bond.

Charges are not expected to be filed against Mr Williams.

'If he wouldn’t have been there, there could have been some innocent people shot,' Mary Beach, one of the would-be victims of the robbery told the Star-Banner. 'I think he is wonderful.'

Henderson, not surprisingly, isn't enthralled with Mr Williams. He thinks that the elderly man should have stopped shooting once he was already on the ground.

'I was down, and I’m not going to continue to shoot you,' he said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-door.html


In a lot of cases, if the gunman thought there was a chance of getting fired back at, they might not do it in the first place.

[skipwondah33]

In a lot of cases (and I think this may be one of them), if the gunman thought there was a chance of getting fired back at, they might not do it in the first place.

Which made me post what I did below.


I agree definitely wouldn't have made things better. Though I wonder if people knew others were carrying if this kind of thing happens? Either way he was prepared to diffuse any type of defense anyone could have not only by the element of surprise but the fact he tear gassed the place.

[SmoothPancakes]

Here's a story on why people carrying can be a huge benefit. (I didn't hear about this until seeing it mentioned in comments regarding the CO Theater Shooter.) I've bolded a line that I think is worth noting:


A 71-year old man thwarted a robbery at a Florida internet cafe on Friday when he shot two would-be assailants and the entire ordeal was captured on security tape.

The two robbers burst through the doors of the Palms Internet Cafe in Ocala and ordered everyone to get down as they waved a handgun at dozens of customers.

But they didn't expect Samuel Williams to pull out his own weapon and fire, injuring both of the criminals and saving the lives of his fellow Floridians.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9RKMtLcacU

Fox reports that the incident occurred just after 10 pm. on Friday.

The surveillance video shows the two men wearing dark clothes barged into the cafe with a baseball bat and a gun.

Witnesses told police that the robbers demanded that the 30 patrons get down on the floor and give them money.


Terrified customers put their hands up in the air, all of them following orders except for Mr Williams.

Kneeling slightly, Mr Williams starts shooting at the men, surprising them with his own attack.

The thugs scramble to exit, falling over each other as Mr Williams chases them out of the cafe.



Once he had sufficiently scared them off, he locked the door and waited for the police to come.

The two men got into a nearby car and fled, witnesses said.

Mr Williams told officers that he was scared the robbers would hurt someone, especially his wife who was sitting nearby him in the cafe.

Officers got a phone call shortly after about two men at a Marion Oaks home who were telling people they had been shot at a nearby baseball field in Ocala.

Investigators searched the field to find evidence of an attack, but found none and arrested the men.


Davis G. Dawkins, 19, and Duwayne Henderson, 19, were transported to Shands Hospital at the University of Florida in Gainesville.

In the heat of the moment, Mr Williams managed to shoot Dawkins' left arm and Henderson's left buttock and his right hip.

Neither one of the teens have a criminal record, authorities said, and both were charged with attempted robbery.

'I feel horrible. It doesn't feel good. It makes you think about life's decisions, and how you should live your life,' Henderson said to the Star-Banner at the jail on Saturday afternoon.

The teen said that they didn't plan to hurt anyone during the robbery, just grab some money and run.

'The gun was broken and rusty and wasn't loaded. Nobody was going to get hurt,' he told the paper; the plan was to 'barge in, get the money and leave.'

He said that neither of the two teens ever 'expected anyone to be armed.'


The two had started to collect cellphones to prevent patrons from calling the police when Mr Williams started shooting.

'I thought I was going to die,' he said. 'I turned around to run and my leg gave out. That was when I got shot. I hit the ground, and he was still shooting.'

The two escaped to a family friend's home in Marion Oaks where the residents called police.

Dawkins told officials that he had recently been an employee at the cafe but was fired, allegedly telling his friend Henderson that there was 'a lot of money there.'

The two hatched their plan to rob the cafe on Friday evening, police said.

Henderson remained in jail late Monday after failing to post $31,000 bond while Dawkins was released Sunday after posting an $11,000 bond.

Charges are not expected to be filed against Mr Williams.

'If he wouldn’t have been there, there could have been some innocent people shot,' Mary Beach, one of the would-be victims of the robbery told the Star-Banner. 'I think he is wonderful.'

Henderson, not surprisingly, isn't enthralled with Mr Williams. He thinks that the elderly man should have stopped shooting once he was already on the ground.

'I was down, and I’m not going to continue to shoot you,' he said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-door.html


In a lot of cases, if the gunman thought there was a chance of getting fired back at, they might not do it in the first place.

Yep. These "no gun zones" are nothing but a false sense of security. If anything, it makes you nothing but a massively bigger target because the criminals and psychos know that virtually everyone in that place will not be able to defend themselves because they won't be armed. Unless you're dealing with gangs or something, a lot of these criminals are chicken-shits. If they think there's a chance they could get shot at, they aren't going to do something at a place. Those guys fit that category perfectly. They tried to rob the place because they thought there would be no one with a gun there and they would be able to do their thing. As soon as someone started shooting, they were running scared and trying to run away.

If the same had been the case at the theater, again, I personally think if even one person had been armed, the whole thing could have ended sooner, either by someone shooting and incapacitating the guy, or by scaring him off and out of the building when it goes from having run of the place to shoot as he pleases to unexpectedly being shot at in return. Yes, there will always be the risk of yourself hitting an innocent bystander from missing who you're shooting at, but that is always going to be a risk regardless of where you're at. It all comes down to personally deciding if it's a necessary risk.

The amount of time it would have taken police and even SWAT to get there, that guy could have killed into the hundreds if he had kept shooting everyone he could and even left that theater and maybe gone into another theater. He stopped shooting and left before the first police response had arrived at the theater. The death toll could have been so, so much higher. In a case like that night at the theater, yes, I feel the risk of possibly hitting an innocent person when firing back at the shooter would have been a justified and necessary risk. If you have the means to stop the attack by being armed and carrying a gun that night, or watch dozens more people get shot because of doing nothing to avoid accidentally hitting someone else other than the shooter, I don't see how you don't try and take down the shooter.

[morsdraconis]

I REALLY don't want to get into a gigantic discussion on this, but I'll just simply say this:

The US is #1 in the world in gun related crimes every year (not related to war or inability to police it's own country, mind you) and, if you add up the rest of the world's numbers, they aren't equal to the number the US averages.

The difference between the US and those other countries? We can legally buy as many guns as we want (not to mention buy ridiculously overpowered guns for no reason), while these other countries have laws that make owning anything besides a handgun that must be worn in plain view at all times illegal.

People in the US aren't more nuts than the rest of the world so there has to be another reason for shit like this to happen and the logical thing is not making guns like what he used and bought legally available at all. Sure, you can say things like, "He'll just get them illegally then." At least not making it perfectly legal to buy thousands of rounds of ammunition for a gun that can easily be made automatic instead of semi-automatic that is still legal to buy would be a deterrent from something like this happening.

[souljahbill]

Theaters may ban costumes. (http://www.examiner.com/article/batman-costumes-banned-theaters-stop-movie-tradition-after-colorado-shooting)

Because costumes are the problem. #PleaseStopOverreatingAmerica

[skipwondah33]

Well this could have possibly ended worse if indeed his intentions were to do similar.

http://news.yahoo.com/3-arrested-separate-dark-knight-incidents-080930278.html

[AustinWolv]

'I was down, and I’m not going to continue to shoot you,' he said
Riiiiiight, because you bringing in a gun and threatening people was an act of passivity and friendliness and of course you had the best of intentions for the people you were robbing. Yeah, the people being threatened should have know that!

mors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
I suggest you don't go to Belarus given your logic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence
Oh what? Finland has a higher non-firearm murder rate than the US???
Australia has a lower firearm and non-firearm homicide rate than the US but allows citizens to own guns, as do other countries. Perhaps it is CULTURE and certain LIFESTYLES that perpetuate gun violence moreso than guns. How about fixing THAT, which would help with many other aspects of this lazy-ass, free-loading society that is being coddled, instead of blaming inanimate objects? Nah, just easier to make excuses and let people skate.
Your logic of overpowered guns is silly also, because, well..........
http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?66134-Caliber-of-firearms-used-in-homicides


Violent Crime in Europe and the USA
Violent crime in the US and Europe Overall robbery and assault rates in the United States are comparable to other developed countries, such as Australia and Finland, notwithstanding the much lower levels of gun ownership in those countries.

[a b Kleck, Gary (2004). "Measures of Gun Ownership Levels of Macro-Level Crime and Violence Research". Journal of Research in Crime and Delinquency 41: pp. 3-36. NCJ 203876.]

In Britain based on year 2000 statistics supplied by UK Home Office the following percentages of the population of these countries were exposed to crime. Among the countries compared the USA has the lowest number of incidents. The UK and Australia do not allow ownership of handguns. About 3% of the Germany population own firearms.
The lowest rate - for the year 200 period in the USA there were 11,605,751 incidents of reported crime based on a population of 300,000,000 (06) - 3.87% of the population was exposed to crime
Australia which does not allow ownership of handguns had a reported crime rate of 1,431,929 based on a population of 20,000,000 - 7.16% of the population was exposed to crime.
Germany with a population of 82 million (05) has a reported 6.264,723 crimes or 7.64% of the population was exposed to crime.
In Britain there were 5,170,843 incidents of reported crime to the police based on a population of 60, 587,000 (06) - 8.5% of the population was exposed to crime.
Highest rate - New Zealand with a population of 4,000,000 (06) had a reported crime with 427,230 incidents - 10.68% of the population was exposed to crime.
http://www.americanfirearms.org/statistics.php#11

Why the hell is this country allowing knives????

The number of handguns used in crime (approximately 7,500 per year) is very small compared to the approximately 70 million handguns in the United States (i.e., 0.011%) [Committee on Law and Justice (2004). "Chapter 4", Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review. National Academy of Science. ]

People with a criminal record are more likely to die as homicide victims.
Does Gun Prohibition Work?
Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns in 1976. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%.

According to Crime in the United States 2004, second to firearms, knives and cutting instruments were the weapons most frequently used by persons committing homicides in the United States. Offenders employed knives to kill members of the general public more than they used rifles and shotguns combined.
http://www.americanfirearms.org/statistics.php#11

Banning so called assault weapons makes little sense. Assault weapons by definition are weapons with selective fire rates including fully automatic fire - machine guns. Machine guns were banned in the US in 1934. Military type arms sold in the US today are semi-automatic only, meaning you get one shot for each trigger pull. These weapons barely register in homicide statistics at all. They look good in the arms of politicians though. In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with a type of firearm not specified. Assault weapons are so rarely used they don't qualify for a separate category.

Shouldn't Switzerland be in complete disarray because of firearms being present? ;)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1566715.stm
http://www.theblessingsofliberty.com/articles/article11.html

[JBHuskers]

That's the thing with all this media glorification of shit like this. All discussion turns into mindless babble eventually.

[AustinWolv]

Good thing I don't pay much attention to the news anymore. :)

[cdj]

Christian Bale visited an Aurora, CO hospital today to meet with some of the victims and responders. (http://www.egmnow.com/digitalnoob/dark-knight-star-bale-visits-shooting-victims/)

http://d1vr6n66ssr06c.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/aurorabalehospitalpic.jpg

https://p.twimg.com/AymUKodCUAAjXQo.jpg:large

[jaymo76]

Here's a story on why people carrying can be a huge benefit. (I didn't hear about this until seeing it mentioned in comments regarding the CO Theater Shooter.) I've bolded a line that I think is worth noting:


A 71-year old man thwarted a robbery at a Florida internet cafe on Friday when he shot two would-be assailants and the entire ordeal was captured on security tape.

The two robbers burst through the doors of the Palms Internet Cafe in Ocala and ordered everyone to get down as they waved a handgun at dozens of customers.

But they didn't expect Samuel Williams to pull out his own weapon and fire, injuring both of the criminals and saving the lives of his fellow Floridians.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9RKMtLcacU

Fox reports that the incident occurred just after 10 pm. on Friday.

The surveillance video shows the two men wearing dark clothes barged into the cafe with a baseball bat and a gun.

Witnesses told police that the robbers demanded that the 30 patrons get down on the floor and give them money.


Terrified customers put their hands up in the air, all of them following orders except for Mr Williams.

Kneeling slightly, Mr Williams starts shooting at the men, surprising them with his own attack.

The thugs scramble to exit, falling over each other as Mr Williams chases them out of the cafe.



Once he had sufficiently scared them off, he locked the door and waited for the police to come.

The two men got into a nearby car and fled, witnesses said.

Mr Williams told officers that he was scared the robbers would hurt someone, especially his wife who was sitting nearby him in the cafe.

Officers got a phone call shortly after about two men at a Marion Oaks home who were telling people they had been shot at a nearby baseball field in Ocala.

Investigators searched the field to find evidence of an attack, but found none and arrested the men.


Davis G. Dawkins, 19, and Duwayne Henderson, 19, were transported to Shands Hospital at the University of Florida in Gainesville.

In the heat of the moment, Mr Williams managed to shoot Dawkins' left arm and Henderson's left buttock and his right hip.

Neither one of the teens have a criminal record, authorities said, and both were charged with attempted robbery.

'I feel horrible. It doesn't feel good. It makes you think about life's decisions, and how you should live your life,' Henderson said to the Star-Banner at the jail on Saturday afternoon.

The teen said that they didn't plan to hurt anyone during the robbery, just grab some money and run.

'The gun was broken and rusty and wasn't loaded. Nobody was going to get hurt,' he told the paper; the plan was to 'barge in, get the money and leave.'

He said that neither of the two teens ever 'expected anyone to be armed.'


The two had started to collect cellphones to prevent patrons from calling the police when Mr Williams started shooting.

'I thought I was going to die,' he said. 'I turned around to run and my leg gave out. That was when I got shot. I hit the ground, and he was still shooting.'

The two escaped to a family friend's home in Marion Oaks where the residents called police.

Dawkins told officials that he had recently been an employee at the cafe but was fired, allegedly telling his friend Henderson that there was 'a lot of money there.'

The two hatched their plan to rob the cafe on Friday evening, police said.

Henderson remained in jail late Monday after failing to post $31,000 bond while Dawkins was released Sunday after posting an $11,000 bond.

Charges are not expected to be filed against Mr Williams.

'If he wouldn’t have been there, there could have been some innocent people shot,' Mary Beach, one of the would-be victims of the robbery told the Star-Banner. 'I think he is wonderful.'

Henderson, not surprisingly, isn't enthralled with Mr Williams. He thinks that the elderly man should have stopped shooting once he was already on the ground.

'I was down, and I’m not going to continue to shoot you,' he said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-door.html


In a lot of cases, if the gunman thought there was a chance of getting fired back at, they might not do it in the first place.


I just don't buy this perspective of "deterrent." If that were the case Texas should have one of the lowest crime rates around due to the frequent use of he death penalty. If deterrent worked than the USA should not have one of the largest prison populations in the developed world. Personally I am of the philosophy of the fewer guns in society, any society, the better. Now let's put this in perspective though... my opinion on this is a minority voice on this forum (a liberal, non-gun owning Canadian who believes in healthcare and social welfare over warfare and who also who lives in Vcr, one of the most laid back cities in North America).

[souljahbill]

You knew it was coming eventually. Some guy is suing people for the attacks. (http://m.wwtdd.com/pl/2012/07/heres-the-first-pos-suing-over-the-dark-knight-rises-shooting/)

Calling the dude a douche begins in 3.....2......1....

[morsdraconis]

:smh:

And I say again, I hate people.

[skipwondah33]

Yeah kinda figured someone was going to sue. Not sure what grounds but if people can sue for McDonald's making them fat then I can imagine this would be available as well

[JeffHCross]

I knew a suit would happen, but I at least expected it to actually come from a victim.

[AustinWolv]

I knew a suit would happen, but I at least expected it to actually come from a victim.
$$$$......smh.....nothing surprising anymore due to $$$.

[SmoothPancakes]

:smh:

And I say again, I hate people.

What he said.

Now I'm just waiting for the suit that includes Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale in it, as well as Warner Bros.. You know it's only a matter of time.

[souljahbill]

What he said.

Now I'm just waiting for the suit that includes Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale in it, as well as Warner Bros.. You know it's only a matter of time.

This suit includes WB. Apparently they made a "violent movie." A movie the the shooter hadn't seen, thus couldn't be an influence.

[skipwondah33]

This suit includes WB. Apparently they made a "violent movie." A movie the the shooter hadn't seen, thus couldn't be an influence.I was going to say it had to include them. Who else would it include in order for them to gain the true monetary value they were looking for

Of course they are likely talking about the Dark Knight where apparently the shooter got his "influence" from by calling himself the Joker

[souljahbill]

I was going to say it had to include them. Who else would it include in order for them to gain the true monetary value they were looking for

Of course they are likely talking about the Dark Knight where apparently the shooter got his "influence" from by calling himself the Joker

I don't know, the article says they're suing WB because the Dark Knight Rises and not The Dark Knight. But even still, there's nothing anyone could really do to prevent it outside of making all emergency exit alarmed doors.

[SmoothPancakes]

This suit includes WB. Apparently they made a "violent movie." A movie the the shooter hadn't seen, thus couldn't be an influence.

I know that. I was talking about the inevitable future suits. Because of this guy, it's only a matter of time before dozens of lawsuits starting flooding in. Employees, people who were in other theaters, people who were standing outside the theater, god only knows. And thus, in addition to suing WB (like this guy did), it's only a matter of time before someone also tries to sue Nolan and Bale in addition to WB. They are thinking they're gonna get a big payday. I'm thinking I'd like to meet the fucker and deck him, ESPECIALLY if I was one of these victims or a family member of the actual victims.

[CLW]

I just don't buy this perspective of "deterrent." If that were the case Texas should have one of the lowest crime rates around due to the frequent use of he death penalty. If deterrent worked than the USA should not have one of the largest prison populations in the developed world. Personally I am of the philosophy of the fewer guns in society, any society, the better. Now let's put this in perspective though... my opinion on this is a minority voice on this forum (a liberal, non-gun owning Canadian who believes in healthcare and social welfare over warfare and who also who lives in Vcr, one of the most laid back cities in North America).

The founding fathers of America saw it shall we say differently:


A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

In order words, American policy is that people with guns is a good thing to protect our security.

If American liberals want to take away ALL guns (or some other variation of gun control) there is a process to amend the Constitution.

Canada can do whatever it thinks is best for Canada. But personally I'd be worried about the impendinv invasion by Zach Morris (searched everywhere for the video of "We should attack Canada..." from Saved by the Bell but could not find it). :fp:

[CLW]

I know that. I was talking about the inevitable future suits. Because of this guy, it's only a matter of time before dozens of lawsuits starting flooding in. Employees, people who were in other theaters, people who were standing outside the theater, god only knows. And thus, in addition to suing WB (like this guy did), it's only a matter of time before someone also tries to sue Nolan and Bale in addition to WB. They are thinking they're gonna get a big payday. I'm thinking I'd like to meet the fucker and deck him, ESPECIALLY if I was one of these victims or a family member of the actual victims.

Yep the lawsuits are going to be flying all over the place I would suspect the University of Colorado will not be added due to their failure to get the mail to the M.D. the letter where he outlined the killing a week in advance while it sat in the mail room.

I also heard TGT was going to be sued too due to the thread about the movie spreading the violent hype. If they only had a lawyer to defend the site from liberal tyranny. :nod:

[AustinWolv]

I just don't buy this perspective of "deterrent."
Statistics shared earlier show otherwise.
Or perhaps just read this:

3. 1980s data on the defensive efficacy of handguns

In any event, all pre-1980s work has been eclipsed by more recent data which allows estimation not only of how many felons armed citizens kill annually but also of those they capture or scare off. This evidence derives from private national surveys on gun issues. Though sponsored by pro- or anti-gun groups the polls were conducted by reputable independent polling organizations and have all been accorded credibility by social scientists analyzing gun issues.{84} Further evidencing the polls' accuracy, is that their results are consistent (particularly their results on defensive gun use), regardless of their sponsorship.{85} Moreover, because the different surveys' data are mutually consistent, any suspicion of bias or falsification may be precluded by simply not using the data from the NRA-sponsored polls.

Based therefore only on the anti-gun polls, it is now clear that handguns are used as or more often in repelling crimes annually as in committing them, c. 645,000 defense uses annually vs. c. 580,000 criminal misuses.{86} Handguns are used another 215,000 times annually to defend against dangerous snakes and animals. As to their effectiveness, handguns work equally well for criminals and victims: in about 83% of the cases in which an victim is faced with a handgun, he (or she) submits; in 83% of the cases in which a victim with a handgun confronts a criminal the criminal flees or surrenders.

This victim survey data is confirmed by complementary data from a survey among felons in state prisons across the country. Conducted under the auspices of the National Institute of Justice, the survey found 34% of the felons saying that

they had been "scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim," [quoting the actual question asked] and about two-thirds (69%) had at least one acquaintance who had had this experience.{87}
In response to two other questions: 34% of the felons said that in contemplating a crime they either "often" or "regularly" worried that they "Might get shot at by the victim"; and 57% agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."{88}
In sum: the claim that "Guns purchased for protection are rarely used for that purpose" could not have been maintained by a full and accurate rendition of even the pre-1980s data; and that claim is definitively refuted by the comprehensive data that have been collected in the 1980s under the auspices of the National Institute of Justice and both pro- and anti-gun groups
http://www.catb.org/~esr/guns/gun-control.html


If that were the case Texas should have one of the lowest crime rates around due to the frequent use of he death penalty. If deterrent worked than the USA should not have one of the largest prison populations in the developed world.
That is a cultural problem, not a gun problem. Look at the Swiss who have guns galore but barely any crime compared to the US. Culture. Training.
Here is a fun read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/guns/gun-control.html



Personally I am of the philosophy of the fewer guns in society, any society, the better. Now let's put this in perspective though... my opinion on this is a minority voice on this forum (a liberal, non-gun owning Canadian who believes in healthcare and social welfare over warfare and who also who lives in Vcr, one of the most laid back cities in North America).
Everyone is entitled to their own philosophy. You can thank the gun owners for helping to secure that. ;)

Don't confuse guns and normal society with that of some asshole who went crazy. If guns weren't available, said crazy person would find another way to commit a mass attack like chemicals or what have you....it was clear the asshole in the CO theater would have gone through the steps of that given what he did to his apartment.

[SCClassof93]

I just don't buy this perspective of "deterrent." If that were the case Texas should have one of the lowest crime rates around due to the frequent use of he death penalty. If deterrent worked than the USA should not have one of the largest prison populations in the developed world. Personally I am of the philosophy of the fewer guns in society, any society, the better. Now let's put this in perspective though... my opinion on this is a minority voice on this forum (a liberal, non-gun owning Canadian who believes in healthcare and social welfare over warfare and who also who lives in Vcr, one of the most laid back cities in North America).

No disrespect but how would one know if deterrence worked in any given situation? Certainly it does not work on those that committ the act but we will never know about those that chose not to committ any given act due to the threat of punishment. Far as Canadian policy, it is easy to be laid back when the U.S.A. is your neighbor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

[cdj]

Another lawsuit in the works; this one against the theater (http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/09/07/possible-lawsuit-over-aurora-movie-shootings-targets-owner/):

possible lawsuit is brewing over the shootings at the Aurora movie theater, and there may be many more. The suit could target the owner of the theater.

Lawyers in New York they say Cinemark is the main entity they’re planning to go after for compensation for the victims. They’re hoping they can reach some sort of settlement right off the bat, but they’re prepared to go to court.

“We have the experience and the contacts to hopefully end this litigation quickly,” attorney Marc Bern said.

Bern is with Napoli, Bern, Ripka, and Scholonik, a New York firm that has represented victims from Sept. 11 and the Costa Concordia ship wreck. Bern won’t say who, but they’ve partnered with a local firm and are now representing many of the theater shooting victims, trying to get compensation.

“The victims here are some of the worst types of injuries that I have seen in over 37 years of practice,” Bern said. “I believe that the primary responsibility at this point rests with Cinemark.”

Bern says right now they’re investigating to see if there were any past incidents at the theater and if there should have been more security there. Also in their crosshairs, the mental health professionals suspect James Holmes saw in the past.

“Either they did warn, and if they did, who did they warn. And if they failed to warn, should they have warned?”

That has been a central question in the case, and because of doctor-patient confidentiality, it’s something that may never be revealed.

Aurora police say no major incident like a shooting has ever happened before in the theater, but has happened in the nearby mall. Cinemark has yet to comment on the impending litigation.

[souljahbill]

The dude bought a ticket, went through the emergency exit and propped it open, got his guns, and came back through the illegally propped door.

How is this the theater's fault?

The theater should sue this firm for wasting their time. The article even says what the firms intentions are: get a quick settlement. I know there are good, honest lawyers out there but these d-bags is what makes everyone hate the profession.

[JeffHCross]

The dude bought a ticket, went through the emergency exit and propped it open, got his guns, and came back through the illegally propped door. I can see the argument that the emergency exit door shouldn't have been allowed to remain open. But that's about it. Certainly not enough to warrant a lawsuit.

[souljahbill]

I can see the argument that the emergency exit door shouldn't have been allowed to remain open. But that's about it. Certainly not enough to warrant a lawsuit.

Just a guess as I don't know, but I assume it was propped open with something so small that the door being open was unnoticeable without paying attention to it.

[JeffHCross]

Just a guess as I don't know, but I assume it was propped open with something so small that the door being open was unnoticeable without paying attention to it.Oh, I know. I just meant that I would personally expect emergency exit doors to be alarmed. Unless it was one of those "it's an Emergency Exit, but anyone can go out via it" doors that I've always thought were a bad idea.

[souljahbill]

Oh, I know. I just meant that I would personally expect emergency exit doors to be alarmed. Unless it was one of those "it's an Emergency Exit, but anyone can go out via it" doors that I've always thought were a bad idea.

I'm pretty sure they were movie's-over-go-straight-to-the-parking-lot "emergency" doors. Thats how all the theaters around here are. They aren't alarmed.

[psuexv]

I mean I understand that you lost someone near and dear to you in a tragic way. But is suing for money really going to make you feel better? And suing the movie theater owner?

[CLW]

I mean I understand that you lost someone near and dear to you in a tragic way. But is suing for money really going to make you feel better? And suing the movie theater owner?

Yes yes it will. We lawyers are magical creatures that make everything better by having you continue to re-live a tragedy in your life against someone remotely involved in said event for a number of years while chasing the all-mighty $. :nod:

Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't sue the movie's studio, coke (or pepsi), the popcorn maker, the company that made the seats in the theater, etc...

[SmoothPancakes]

Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't sue the movie's studio, coke (or pepsi), the popcorn maker, the company that made the seats in the theater, etc...

Give them time. :fp: