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View Full Version : How does EA fix the issues on defense?



Oneback
07-08-2012, 09:24 AM
As everyone has surely read or seen by now if you have the game there are issues with alignment, zone coverage, man coverage, pass rush and run defense – might have been easier to just say there are problems with the defense. But how do they fix it?

Defenses are reactionary, what I mean by this is defenses must align and play in certain ways to combat offensive formations, for if they leave a gap unguarded or a receiver unaccounted the offense has the potential for a large gain. There are two basic ways to guard an offensive gap – the defense can one-gap or two-gap (both of which need to be implemented) but essentially it comes down to alignment. EA attempted to get alignment right this year but just as with pattern reading coverage’s of last year it was poorly executed and the result is gaps go unaccounted for in the defensive alignment.

Fixing defensive alignment has several factors, first and foremost is aligning the front and tied in with that is giving the user more control over what positions each player plays. When calling defensive fronts in real life you can align them in several ways: to the tight end side, to the split end side, to the field side, to the boundary side and finally by formation – for example if you want the 3 tech to or away from the running back, typically used against shotgun option teams or if you want to align a certain way against a trips formation. Now, I understand you can do this by flipping the play either in the play call screen or once you’re at the line of scrimmage however the problem there is that all the assignments change for the secondary, you’ve now got players running across the formation which leads to broken coverage’s, additionally all your defensive linemen have now moved as well, meaning that 3-tech DT you recruited to rush the passer is now aligned as a NT and your big NT you recruited to hold his ground and stuff the run is now aligned as a 3-tech.

In order to fix these problems we need to first be able to specify what positions each of our players will play: Nose Tackle, Defensive Tackle, Strong Defensive End, Rush End, Sam, Mike, Will, Field Corner, Boundary Corner, Strong Safety, Free Safety, etc. Next, in the play call screen we will see the defensive formation ie. 43 Normal much as we do now, then we can select how we want to align the 43 Normal formation: to the tight end side, to the split end side, to the field side, to the boundary side and based on formation. There also needs to be basic adjustments to said formations available in the play call screen, for example you should be able to call a ‘G’ adjustment, here you would have the option to call Tight G – the formation would align to the tight end, but now your nose tackle instead of aligning as a 1-tech (outside shade of the center) would now align as a 2i tech (inside shade of the guard), this helps against weak side runs. There also needs to be automatic checks at the LOS (that the CPU will do automatically for you), for example you call Split 43 Normal, you’ve now aligned the formation to the split end, however there is a tight end attached opposite him – you’ve got a 1 tech and a 5 tech to the tight end side, not good, the AI should automatically recognize this and move the NT to a 2i or G tech. There are several other adjustments but in the end it is giving the user more control to put their players in certain positions to combat what their opponent is doing. Linebackers and secondary defenders should adjust accordingly to whatever front and coverage is called based on the formation the offense is in – this isn’t difficult as it’s based on the alignment of eligible receivers: 2x1, 2x2, 3x1, 3x2 and the width of those receivers.

For presentation purposes I’d like to hear the Mike linebacker call out “Ringo” or “Lucy” (maybe even change it up based on the defensive formation) to set the front either right or left based on the call. If there is an automatic check like stated above I’d like to hear the Mike call out “Loose, Loose” to move that NT from a 1-tech to a 2i-tech.

This brings us to pass coverage, first there needs to be automatic coverage checks based upon alignment – there are only so many coverage’s a defense can play based upon the front and secondary alignment (which is all tied into the offensive formation). Second EA needs to get away from spot dropping zone coverage’s and move more towards pattern reading coverage’s (I know they said they implemented pattern reading last year), if you don’t know the difference please read my article on ncaaplaybook.com: Affecting the Quarterback: Spot Drop or Pattern Read Zones (http://www.ncaaplaybook.com/spot-dropping-versus-pattern-reading-zone-defenses/). They also need to fix or include more man coverage techniques: Banjo, Funnel, Fiddle, Double, etc, etc. Basically the entire coverage system needs to be overhauled.

Now, I understand this is a lot and how can we trust EA to implement these items correctly when there hasn’t been a good track record of them doing this in the past – the honest answer, we can’t. However, this is what the game needs, some will contend these items will make the game more complex for the general public that just wants to pick up the game and play, I believe this would actually make the game easier and it would certainly make the CPU a better opponent worthy of actually playing.

Let me explain why I believe this would make the game easier – I contend a lot of new users to the franchise, especially when playing online, just give up on the game because you have to do everything in order to have a chance on defense especially when playing some online that have learned every trick in the game to break the defense. This means you either get beat like a drum or you go into practice mode for hours at a time attempting to figure out how to combat certain things or ways to break the game. By implementing the defense correctly there wouldn’t be ways to break the defense, thus giving people a greater chance. Another item I would like see implemented that could help new users is the difficulty level not changing the way the game is played or how players react, but it would actually change how much input the AI has on defensive adjustments or the queues it gives you. For example, on freshmen difficulty, you’d pick formations and plays just as you would on any other level but the AI would make front and coverage adjustments but would give you prompts as to what those adjustments are, then as you move up through the different difficulty levels the AI would either stop prompting or making adjustments meaning the user would need to do so themselves. This would allow two different players to play online together using two different difficulty levels, leveling the playing field and removing a lot of frustration.

Another item I would like added is player drills, if implemented correctly you could actually teach the game to new players, a great place for these drills would be Road to Glory as it would tie in perfectly with what they are trying to do there. However, adding them in as a sub game would be great as well so anyone can pick up the game and quickly work on an area of the game much like MLB: The Show has done with their mini-games like batting practice, etc.

I know I’ve gone a little long on this post but there seems to be so much untapped potential with both NCAA and Madden, I know the development team has passion for the game and wants it to succeed, but in the end we as purchasers of the product end up being disappointed year after year and a lot of these items haven’t changed since I started playing the series 20+ years ago. It’s time for a change EA, throwing new flashy marketing ploys or new modes out is resulting in diminishing returns because core gameplay lacks in so many areas. The focus should not be on what modes can be added to subdue your customers as the fun only lasts so long before gameplay starts to rear its ugly head. Focus on fixing gameplay, that thing the game is built around, something everyone sees almost daily during football season before moving on to Road to Glory, Heisman Mode, Mascot Games, etc, etc, etc.

CLW
07-08-2012, 09:27 AM
Good stuff!

steelerfan
07-08-2012, 10:32 AM
I don't disagree with you at all, Mike. The only thing that made me scratch my head was the line about "diminishing returns". The bottom line is the main "return" that any company is concerned with and EA did very well in that area with 12. I'm sure 13 will do just as well.

I know that sales, and money, were not what you meant by "diminishing returns", but $$$ drives the ship. As long as sales are good, the back of the box garbage will always be first.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

Oneback
07-08-2012, 10:44 AM
I'd really like to see the amount of sales compared to the amount of trade-ins by week after release. We all know football is king in the digital sports gaming world so the game will be purchased, however how many copies of NCAA are traded-in when Madden comes out? What's the average time the game is actually kept by its original owner? What's the average amount of time the game is played per week after release. I have a feeling as soon as the game drops everyone runs out and gets it within a month, but then I've got to believe the number of those playing diminish significantly - as an online player it's easily seen as there are fewer and fewer people online to play a month or two out. Compare that to say Battlefield or Call of Duty where people are online year round.

ryby6969
07-08-2012, 11:01 AM
The problem is they do not care if the game gets traded in after a day, because in the end they still got their money.

CLW
07-08-2012, 11:07 AM
The problem is they do not care if the game gets traded in after a day, because in the end they still got their money.

Yeah the only way EA takes notice is sales fall through the floor. Their stock has gone in the tank this year but as far as I know not much has changed.

TIMB0B
07-08-2012, 01:45 PM
This is a great write-up no doubt, but you're asking EA to jump from "discreet math" to "calculus." I simply would just like to be able to run the most fundamental offenses (triple option) in college football without all of the hiccups. We know they've fixed the read/option from the shotgun, but we don't know about from under center or the pistol. And from what I've experienced in the demo, you still can't make late pitches, or pitches while in the grasp or being tackled. EA needs to work on the basics first: running, passing, pitching, catching, blocking, and tackling i.e. physics -- before working on specific alignments. But I whole-heartedly agree, getting specific will add longevity to the game, not Heisman Challenge or other gimmicks. Regardless, it needs to be done incrementally.

Oneback
07-08-2012, 07:46 PM
This is a great write-up no doubt, but you're asking EA to jump from "discreet math" to "calculus." I simply would just like to be able to run the most fundamental offenses (triple option) in college football without all of the hiccups. We know they've fixed the read/option from the shotgun, but we don't know about from under center or the pistol. And from what I've experienced in the demo, you still can't make late pitches, or pitches while in the grasp or being tackled. EA needs to work on the basics first: running, passing, pitching, catching, blocking, and tackling i.e. physics -- before working on specific alignments. But I whole-heartedly agree, getting specific will add longevity to the game, not Heisman Challenge or other gimmicks. Regardless, it needs to be done incrementally.

I agree there are a lot of items that need to be addressed and that it's a huge undertaking as in my opinion the entire game need to be rebuilt.

steelerfan
07-08-2012, 07:58 PM
Oh, and for the record, football is king in the digital sports gaming world. Just not American Football. ;)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

psuexv
07-08-2012, 09:03 PM
Oh, and for the record, football is king in the digital sports gaming world. Just not American Football. ;)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

Add to that that we are talking about college football which is a minor subset of American football.

I OU a Beatn
07-08-2012, 09:19 PM
Yeah the only way EA takes notice is sales fall through the floor. Their stock has gone in the tank this year but as far as I know not much has changed.

You'd be surprised:

'10(PS3, 360, PS2): 2.48 million copies sold
'11(PS3, 360, PS2): 2.06 million copies sold
'12(PS3, 360): 1.68 million copies sold

There's an obvious trend here. If you think about it, they should be gaining sales regardless. Every year there's tens of millions of new console owners taking their first plunge into this generation of consoles, and not only are they not able to maintain sales from the previous year, but they're actually losing sales even with all the new consoles. From '10 to '12 they lost about 750,000 units sold give or take which equates to about $45 million bucks less made from '12 than they did with '10. It's not an exact number, but anyway you slice it, they're not selling nearly as many copies as they did before. I suspect with the disaster that was last year's game that the trend of slumping sales is definitely going to continue.

Just for comparison's sake, NCAA Football '07 sold 3.3 million copies across it's platforms.

TIMB0B
07-08-2012, 09:59 PM
I agree there are a lot of items that need to be addressed and that it's a huge undertaking as in my opinion the entire game need to be rebuilt.

I'm curious if they've already begun working on the next-gen consoles. IIRC, they had to rebuild this generation from scratch. That's why I think you kept seeing "new" features when they were actually old if you played the last-gen versions.

majesty95
07-09-2012, 03:00 AM
You'd be surprised:

'10(PS3, 360, PS2): 2.48 million copies sold
'11(PS3, 360, PS2): 2.06 million copies sold
'12(PS3, 360): 1.68 million copies sold

There's an obvious trend here. If you think about it, they should be gaining sales regardless. Every year there's tens of millions of new console owners taking their first plunge into this generation of consoles, and not only are they not able to maintain sales from the previous year, but they're actually losing sales even with all the new consoles. From '10 to '12 they lost about 750,000 units sold give or take which equates to about $45 million bucks less made from '12 than they did with '10. It's not an exact number, but anyway you slice it, they're not selling nearly as many copies as they did before. I suspect with the disaster that was last year's game that the trend of slumping sales is definitely going to continue.

Just for comparison's sake, NCAA Football '07 sold 3.3 million copies across it's platforms.

So they've lost half of their consumer base in 6 years. That's crazy.

I agree with oneback, the entire engine needs to be rebuilt. Hopefully, adding the infinity engine will be a step in that direction. I think their first attempt at next gen gave them a poor system with which to work from and they have been fighting an uphill battle ever since.

baseballplyrmvp
07-09-2012, 11:27 PM
So they've lost half of their consumer base in 6 years. That's crazy.

no, the numbers are presented in a way to make it look they've lost a bunch of people. ncaa 10 sold on 4 different platforms (the 3 listed and the psp). ncaa 11 dropped support for the psp, and ncaa 12 dropped support for the ps2. so naturally, you're gonna be seeing a drop in sales numbers by dropping a whole console from your target audience.

if you look at the one consistancy in the numbers (the total units sold from just the 360 and ps3), the sales numbers have only dropped 30,000 units from 10 to 12. ncaa 10 sold 1.71 million units on the 2 current gen consoles, ncaa 11 sold 1.68 million, and ncaa 12 also sold 1.68 million.

baseballplyrmvp
07-09-2012, 11:29 PM
btw, great stuff oneback

OptionMasta
07-10-2012, 01:06 AM
Honestly we know the answer to this already - half-assed, if at all. We already bought the game...what do they care? If they're really lucky maybe a bunch of us will turn it in for the promise of a better game in Madden next month and they'll win twice.

TIMB0B
07-10-2012, 03:08 AM
And from what I've experienced in the demo, you still can't make late pitches, or pitches while in the grasp or being tackled. Still holds true after having the game now. Very frustrating. I just played 3 games, and late pitches or pitches while getting hit do not happen. In fact, there were several times where I clearly hit the pitch button on time, but the QB just flung his arm out like a fake pitch, having never pitched it, and got tackled. There seems to be a coding issue. Like suction blocking of the past, this is suction tackling. It's not only very prominent in the option run, but in general when I handoff to the FB on the dive he'll have a gaping hole, looking like he could gain 10 or more yards, but then he gets sucked into a tackle from behind. :fp: