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cdj
07-12-2010, 09:42 PM
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Playbooks

Use this thread for wish list & feedback items discussing ideas and feedback in regards to Playbooks in NCAA Football 12.

This could include formations & plays your favorite team runs or ideas on how you would flesh out existing playbooks.

Be clear, but concise in making your wishes. Any off-topic posts will be deleted.

JeffHCross
07-12-2010, 11:18 PM
I would love, love, love to see the team take a stab at some more "traditional" playbooks, if Custom Playbooks aren't coming anytime soon. Playbooks heavy with I-Formation Option, or Splitbacks, or Near/Far formations. Things that we would have seen in the 80s and early 90s but have all but left the game today (except for the rare Navy/Army/Air Force/GT).

Jayrah
07-13-2010, 01:40 AM
I would love, love, love to see the team take a stab at some more "traditional" playbooks, if Custom Playbooks aren't coming anytime soon. Playbooks heavy with I-Formation Option, or Splitbacks, or Near/Far formations. Things that we would have seen in the 80s and early 90s but have all but left the game today (except for the rare Navy/Army/Air Force/GT).

Naming them as "Heavy I 90's" or "Traditional multiple" or something like that would be good. Good Post!

Jayrah
07-13-2010, 01:47 AM
Far as plays go, the shuttle/shovel pass is a huge request these days. Also I haven't seen the option to simply throw to the uncovered receiver anywhere yet. I'm assuming that one didn't make it, though I'll have to check to be sure. That option as a route and play would be a nice addition, and I assume fairly simple.

souljahbill
07-13-2010, 02:43 AM
Maybe it's me but there seems to be a need for more running plays in almost every formation I've used.

CLW
07-14-2010, 01:41 PM
IMO the defensive playbooks are all in need of a MAJOR overhaul like the offensive playbooks got this year. Just like offense, no schools defense is exactly the same as anothers even if they run the same base 4-3; 3-4; etc...

Boucher
07-15-2010, 11:13 AM
The real RnS playbook! Oh and please fix Auburn's playbook it looks nothing close to what they run in real life

gschwendt
07-15-2010, 11:26 AM
The real RnS playbook! Oh and please fix Auburn's playbook it looks nothing close to what they run in real life
Need more details please.

Boucher
07-15-2010, 11:45 AM
Need more details please.



There are a few differences here between Malzahn's offense and what Franklin and Tuberville tried to do (or said they were trying to do). The biggest, I'd say, is that Malzahn's spread is not exactly like other spreads, whether pass-first ones like the Airraid or run-heavy spreads like Urban Meyer's or Rich Rodriguez's. That's because the schemes are simple - very, very simple - and the core of the offense is not even about schemes: it's about tempo. . . .

[N]obody does what Malzahn does. If some no-huddle teams, like Franklin's, are light-speed, then Malzahn wants to spend the entire game in something akin to "ludicrous speed."


So what does it look like when Malzahn uses it? Well it's basically the same, except he might show a few different things before the snap. Specifically, he might use an H-back or fullback type player who comes from the backside to be the "puller" who leads into the hole, and that player might begin the play split out wide and motion in across the formation. Or, the runningback himself might motion into the backfield. There's lots of options. Below, however, is a diagram of what Malzahn did in the spring game; the play went for a long touchdown twice in the spring game (thanks to good blocking and some weak angles by the defense).

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1PiTuBhELbU/SjqKA9n50CI/AAAAAAAAAuU/xSeOa0k1gJQ/s400/counter_spread.GIF


To take one of the examples before getting to the film clips, the offense lined up in a basic shotgun set, with one runningback, one H-back, and three receivers

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1PiTuBhELbU/SjqKtfZHG8I/AAAAAAAAAuc/M_YKQUlKbdg/s400/auburncounteryo.JPG


I have only drawn paths for two players: the backside guard pulls and kicks out the defensive end, while the H-back pulls and leads into the hole (and eventually also kicks out the linebacker, though he could have just as easily "hooked" him inside, had the linebacker stepped that way). The rest of the line just blocks down, and the runningback takes his slight counter steps and explodes into the hole, following the H-back's block. To see it all in action, check out the film clips from the spring game this past year.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOAudC6NN3Y&feature=player_embedded#!

Zone Read Bubble Screen


I won't get too far into the basics of the zone read; I have both discussed it previously and also plan to go more in depth in the future as teams defend it differently nowadays. What you can expect from Malzahn and Auburn is much in the mainstream in terms of the play. The line will zone block, and the runningback will look for a vertical crease. The quarterback will read the backside end to determine where or not to give the ball to the back or keep it himself. The one wrinkle Malzahn brings -- which again, is something Rich Rodriguez has been doing for some time -- is to build the bubble screen on the backside in. Basically, if the backside pursuit cheats in too much, Auburn has its constraint play built in: the quarterback can always pull the ball and throw the bubble. Below is a diagram and a video of Auburn running the zone with the bubble on the backside, though the quarterback just gives it to the runner.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1PiTuBhELbU/SjqAgnRlJdI/AAAAAAAAAts/qND3sIBYbLA/s400/zonereadbubbler.GIF


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7_4MdhWUcw&feature=player_embedded

Power


The "power" run is another that has ancient, "power football" roots but has been adapted to the spread. And it, again, is very simple: the line essentially "down" blocks, meaning they block the men over them or to their inside, and will use teamwork to combination block the defensive linemen until one releases to hit the linebackers. The exception is the defensive end or other outside, on the line of scrimmage defender. (Aptly referred to as the EMLOS -- "end man on the line of scrimmage.") The fullback -- or H-back, or someone -- plows at him to kick him out, thus opening a crease.

The crease becomes a hole, however, because the backside guard pulls and "leads" into it to block the linebacker, or other first threatening defender. In this way the blocking works much as it does on "counter," but with more of a frontside attack. Below is a diagram of how an NFL team runs the play; it is in every NFL team's playbook. (Click on the diagram to make it larger.)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1PiTuBhELbU/SjqBa36F2sI/AAAAAAAAAt0/Am2T3NsNjlg/s400/power-pro.GIF


And below is a common look Malzahn ran "power" from while at Tulsa, using the "pistol" (short shotgun with the runningback directly behind the quarterback) and a cross between an H-back and a fullback. See below

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1PiTuBhELbU/SjqBt5TWnwI/AAAAAAAAAt8/gGC3QbIVyuQ/s400/auburnpower.GIF


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au25CyIul28&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHpczcSOuW0&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgcBPczLUI0&feature=player_embedded

Oneback
07-17-2010, 10:56 AM
The biggest think I would like to see is create a playbook. Not so much create my own plays but I would like the ability to take plays from other playbooks.

For example you would first pick a formation, ie: Shotgun - Normal HB Wk and you would then have the ability to pick 20 plays from all the plays in that formation that are in the game.

Keontez
07-17-2010, 12:40 PM
My beef is with the defense:

- Add the 3-4 Predator from Madden

- 3-3-5 and 4-2-5 Defense need a 2 high safety look with their base defenses

- Remove the 3-4 or add a 3-5-3 (http://clempsonfootball.blogspot.com/2009/07/bc-spazianis-3-5-3-defense.html) formation or at least a substitute package for the 3-3-5 Stack or Bear alignments

- 4-2-5 needs updated coverages such as split field coverages (http://runcodhit.blogspot.com/2009/12/4-2-5-split-field-coverage.html) or Q/Q/H (quarter, quarter, half coverage)

not really sure if these are game play issues or what but:

- Strong and weak positions on defense, to where the defense lines up to the strong and weakside of the defense.
- Buzz and Flats zones need to be married in some sort of way.

souljahbill
07-17-2010, 03:28 PM
I'd like some small numerical indicator letting me know how many times I've called a play from a certain formation.

Ex. Let's say I call HB Dive from I-Form Normal. The next time I go through that formation, in the corner, there will be a number 1, letting me know that I've called that play once. If I call it again, that number will be a 2 next time and so on and so forth.

I thought about this today as I was playing a game and was trying to run out the clock and had no idea how many times I had called a particular running play from that formation and was scared it would be eaten up by the defense.

Dr Death
07-17-2010, 04:18 PM
The real RnS playbook!

I can actually help out here. I have several Mouse Davis and June Jones playbooks and could provide EA w/ the exact offense. My question is... would they use it? Because it would involve a LOT of work to get it down on paper/computer screen and put it in such a way that they can understand it and implement it in the game.

If anyone here who was at the Community Day event can ask EA if they would be open to this then the Run & Shoot offense can be in the game.

jaymo76
07-17-2010, 04:38 PM
My beef is with the defense:

- Add the 3-4 Predator from Madden

- 3-3-5 and 4-2-5 Defense need a 2 high safety look with their base defenses

- Remove the 3-4 or add a 3-5-3 (http://clempsonfootball.blogspot.com/2009/07/bc-spazianis-3-5-3-defense.html) formation or at least a substitute package for the 3-3-5 Stack or Bear alignments

- 4-2-5 needs updated coverages such as split field coverages (http://runcodhit.blogspot.com/2009/12/4-2-5-split-field-coverage.html) or Q/Q/H (quarter, quarter, half coverage)

not really sure if these are game play issues or what but:

- Strong and weak positions on defense, to where the defense lines up to the strong and weakside of the defense.
- Buzz and Flats zones need to be married in some sort of way.

Agreed! Defense playbooks need serious revision as they have not changed in years.

Keontez
07-18-2010, 08:25 AM
give me a quarters coverage that doesnt play like a prevent play.

Keontez
08-26-2010, 10:45 AM
Add the proper Stunts to the 4-2-5, 4-4 and Bear front defenses.

JeffHCross
08-26-2010, 10:02 PM
give me a quarters coverage that doesnt play like a prevent play.Man Short Zone, and the Double X/Z plays work pretty well, especially with Show Blitz. I think Cover 3 is less-Prevent like if you run Show Blitz as well, but I can't say I've tested it lately.

Going back to one of your earlier posts ... I don't think I've ever seen a 2-high safety look with 4-2-5 or 3-3-5 ... not in real-life, that is. Would that really differ at all from the Nickel and Nickel 3-3-5 packages, with a SS replacing the nickelback?

Keontez
08-27-2010, 09:36 AM
it is a nickel look. But with a strong safety. My gripe is the 4-2-5 playbook is unrealistic. All 4-2-5 and 4-4 defense play the same. Either you set the front 4 to the Split End or the Tight End. The Secondary call is what determines if they set to the Boundary or the Field. In reality there should be three 4-2-5 formations. The Normal look primarily used for Robber coverage, The Bear Front. And the Over/ Under variation should look like the Nickel Strong/Normal.

This (http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2009/07/tcu-nickel-blitz-coverage-concepts.html) post is from TCU's game against Boise. You should see the 2-high safety look that TCU plays. Even in the playbook, when they explain the Robber play is the only time you truly see a 1High safety look.

My beef with Quarters is that the players have no sense of run responsibilities and dont look for the run. If the logic was changed, to where players didnt immediately spot drop and covered a player instead of covering grass would help out immensely.

Rudy
09-22-2010, 04:20 AM
I'd love to see more control on stunts for the DL. I know Ian said we won't get an extra tier of playcalling like 2K5 to help with this but an expanded defensive playbook would help. Defensive playbooks are pretty crappy and they need to remove the engage 8 and double CB blitzes that we never call because they suck. The cpu still calls them and it's too easy to get a big play when they do.

Keontez
09-22-2010, 09:09 AM
Not to take this off topic but what is the beef with Engage Eight plays and Double CB blitzes? I call the Engage Eight Play a lot with 2 adjustments. And please dont take any offense to this, I just cant think of a better way to say it, but I do think people should try to speak for themselves instead of for the whole community when they say things like "We never use that", I can pretty much guarantee you that there are some that do, and the ones that dont, dont know when to call said plays.

Rudy
09-22-2010, 06:58 PM
Fair enough. I have called the double CB blitz before but I always hot route the blitzing CB on the wide side of the field to drop back and not blitz. The cpu isn't smart enough to do these things so I wish they would just eliminate those plays entirely.

baseballplyrmvp
11-03-2010, 07:31 PM
it might be just me, but i think the bubble screen animation for receivers runs way too slowly compared to real life.

JeffHCross
11-03-2010, 08:16 PM
There are several plays in various playbooks that involve Jet Motion from Right to Left, and a toss play running left. There's normally one playside receiver on the left side, and then there are one or two pulling blockers, plus the blocker in motion.

Problem is, I've yet to find any of those plays where the playside receiver actually blocks. The play design has him cracking down in a crack-back block, but he doesn't execute it until someone comes within enough range to trigger a new animation ... kinda like how the QB would sit in the PA mesh animation on certain PA passes until the defense came in range to trigger a new animation.

kdog36
01-06-2011, 09:11 PM
IMO the defensive playbooks are all in need of a MAJOR overhaul like the offensive playbooks got this year. Just like offense, no schools defense is exactly the same as anothers even if they run the same base 4-3; 3-4; etc...

Could not agree more. They say they are going to improve the Def AI. This alone would help. but unique Def playbooks would be great for sure.

k

Sinister
01-14-2011, 09:37 AM
This is my idea so instead of the L2 button audibles or whatever it does, how about make that the stunt adjustments you would press L 2 and right stick or direction pad control dline stunts only and left stick controls linebacker and dline stunts. Also for defense audibles we need to ability to delay blitz instead of get closer to los

Keontez
05-11-2011, 01:59 PM
Seeing how its unknown that Army's Wing Bone offense made it into '12 or not (and since none of the plays or formations was showcased in the "25 New Plays promotion", Im assuming not) I wanted to post this here.

As stated before Army's offense is mixture of Flexbone and Wing-T, hence, Head Coach Rich Ellerson giving the offense the name, Wing Bone. (http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100929/SPORTS36/9290343/-1/SPORTS3609)

The outside veer is a triple option play, but rather having a fullback running to the B gap, one of the two split backs runs off tackle. The quarterback starts moving down the line to get to the mesh point, giving the split back a different dive angle then we see in the Navy spread option. (Special Note to EA: This play SHOULD go in every option playbook. Not formation wise but play wise.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pnp0BK9zNA
With the split back veer, either back could be a dive back or a pitch back on any play.


Army gets a advantage of misdirection by having their two best runners in the backfield. They run a lot of jet sweeps as well, which also sets up counter plays. Here, as the safeties follow the motion and the threat of the sweep, Army runs a counter in the other direction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3-RWgH47Os

Army’s misdirection plays envolve a lot from a Counter Iso with a pulling center which looks like a triple option play but its a predetermined hand off.

http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/xbmohq_doubleo_sport


Their staple passing play is play action in one direction, with the QB rolling out in the opposite direction.The play action gets the safety moving away from the direction of the pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCxF86p91p4
On that last play, the motion drew the safety away, leaving a 1-on-1 matchup for the wide receiver. That was Army’s bread & butter pass play with Ali Villanueva, but it wasnt as successful without a 6’10″ receiver to throw to.

"Double Dive" is a generic term thats used for the the "Belly Series" in Army's offense. As its been said before Army's Offense is a mixture of the Wing-T and Option offenses. This series of plays borrows a lot from the Wing-T Belly Series, but is somewhat different. What Wing-T coaches typically refer to as their Belly Series is really the “Outside” Belly Series. The play otherwise known as a Double Dive is typically referred to as the “Inside” Belly Series"

The Belly is a play that threatens 3 separate points of attack all to the same side of the defense, very similar to the triple option, except without the pitch and read issues. Although the play originated from the full-house 3 RB systems of the 50’s and 60’s, it has since evolved and been adapted to fit many different styles of offense.

The base is typically a 2 RB set with a Wingback lined up where a A-back would line up traditionally in the Flexbone, and you can run the Belly Series out of any 2-back formation (or any formation where you can motion to 2 RB's, like flexbone, DW, etc.):

From Army's Base Alignment:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/keontez/BellyFBDive.png?t=1305004424

Pre-snap the Wingback will motion to draw the linebackers attention. The first back (closest to playside) dives straight ahead, usually off center or guard depending on his alignment. The QB sticks the ball in his gut and rides it in either a give or a fake (in the game, this should be a pre-determined call with a give or a "Flash Fake"). The second back (furthest from playside) drives laterally for a step, and then drives hard to the offtackle hole or B gap, coming downhill. The QB will ride him with either a give or fake as well. Finally, when the QB has disengaged from the second back he will fake or run keeper around the end. All 3 points of attack are on the same side of the defense.

Some teams run it as an option, like midline or veer with the first ride. My suggestion is that EA implement this play as a predetermined call, as I feel it'll be best suited when it comes to running this series of plays.

Give us the option to run this play as a series concept, as it represents the primary series in the offense.


The rushing plays in the series are as follows:

BELLY- Base play, pre-determined give to either the first back or second back
BELLY KEEPER-Fakes first and second back, with QB keeper around the end, playside G pulls
BELLY COUNTER-Fake first man, hand outside to WB running backside counter (trap blocked), fake 2nd man
BELLY OPTION- Midline or IV blocking scheme, with option as to who gets the ball (QB or FB)
BELLY HANDBACK- A crossbuck, fakes the first man one side, hands back to the second man opposite side (similar to the WB Misdirection out of the Flexbone books, just a tad different)
BELLY TOSS- Fakes the first man, then option pitch toss to the second back following a pulling guard to the outside.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/keontez/WBSweep.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/keontez/Midline-1.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/keontez/DoubleDiveCounter.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/keontez/DoubleDiveBellyHandback.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/keontez/BellyToss-1.jpg

gschwendt
05-11-2011, 02:11 PM
Seeing how its unknown that Army's Wing Bone offense made it into '12 or not (and since none of the plays or formations was showcased in the "25 New Plays promotion", Im assuming not) I wanted to post this here.
Unfortunately it didn't make it in this year. I talked with Anthony White (playbook designer) and he said that he wanted to get it in but that they didn't get good film on it until very late. He did say though that he really wants to get it in next year and with the game film they have (behind the play view), it should be doable.

Keontez
05-11-2011, 02:16 PM
thanks Gshewendt.

Kinda disappointed that they didnt, but I got a chubby just thinking that they'll get it in next iteration.

JeffHCross
05-11-2011, 10:49 PM
Tez, awesome post. I didn't see Army's offense this year until the Army/Navy game, and I was just blown away when I first saw the Wing Bone. I couldn't believe my eyes that I was seeing a Wing-T, basically.

Keontez
05-11-2011, 11:55 PM
Thanks Jeff. Im not really suprised that EA couldnt get footage until later in the season. Last season their offense was basically the Flexbone with a different alignment. This year its more Wing-T than anything and most of their offense is built of the Belly/Double Dive series and if you take Army's offense and put in a shotgun aligment you basically have Auburn's Offense.

baseballplyrmvp
06-05-2011, 11:13 AM
when are reverses going to be brought back?