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cdj
07-12-2010, 09:22 PM
http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/images/NCAA11/NCAAFootballLogo.jpg

Gameplay

Use this thread for wish list & feedback items relating to gameplay changes you would like to see in NCAA Football 12.

Be clear, but concise in making your wishes. Any off-topic posts will be deleted.

gschwendt
07-14-2010, 08:17 AM
Ability to Flip Run in Flexbone - Currently you can mostly just flip the run in under center formations. However, where this is truly missing is in the Flexbone formations where you have twin B-backs. I should be able to flip the run if both B-backs are in and it simply change assignment from one to the other.

Ability to Flip Run in Shotgun - Right now, you can only flip Shotgun Speed Options but no other plays from Shotgun. What I would like to see is if I call Shotgun - Normal Off Tackle and flip the run, it either A) moves the HB to the other side of the QB (ie from Str to Wk) and runs off tackle, or B) it keeps the HB in the same place but changes the run to a counter. I would prefer the option A, especially if in passing situations we could "Flip Run" and that would still transfer the HB to the other side and have him run his assignment from there.

gschwendt
07-14-2010, 08:28 AM
Special Teams Overhaul - Other than the addition of Return Middle and Squib Kick this year, we've pretty much had the same all-around special teams for a very long time. I would like to see punts and field goals blocked ON OCCASION without having to type in the Contra Code before hand. Even if you have to "cheat" and have a dice roll of "this guy" misses his block on this attempt, just something to make those kicks more exciting.

AustinWolv
07-14-2010, 08:34 AM
Great list. Absolutely agree on the shotgun flip runs. I'd like to see that for when you audible the RB to blocking on a hot route as well.

Defensive hot routes - would like to see the MLB able to be blitzed individually like the OLB currently have capability to do. It would also be nice to be able to tell the LBs which gap to blitz in relation to how you shift or slant the DL to take their gaps.

Long FGs - right now, lowering or raising the trajectory is just for distance but carries basically 0% of getting blocked. A dice roll based on number of FGs blocked that are attempted farther than 45 yards should be implemented.

gschwendt
07-14-2010, 08:56 AM
Defensive hot routes - would like to see the MLB able to be blitzed individually like the OLB currently have capability to do.
I'll assume you know this but in case you don't, did you know you can select him pre-snap, then hot route him to blitz? Granted it's not as fast as doing the OLBs, but the option is there.


As for a wishlist item:
Defensive Hot Routes by Personnel Grouping - the ability when doing hot routes for the defense, you first select personnel grouping (DL, LB, or DB), then select a button coordinating to one of the players in that grouping. So to hot route the MLB to blitz, it would be Square for hot route, L1 for LBs, X for MLB, down R-stick for blitz. It obviously is a several step process, but it's at least better than individually having to try to get to the player you're wanting to change pre-snap and most times not having enough time.

AustinWolv
07-14-2010, 09:03 AM
I'll assume you know this but in case you don't, did you know you can select him pre-snap, then hot route him to blitz? Granted it's not as fast as doing the OLBs, but the option is there.
Yes, rarely have enough time, especially if another adjustments are needed.

I'm on 360, so buttons don't map as you outlined, so I'll have to try out the hot route grouping that you outlined. Didn't know that capability was there so will try it out tonight.

gschwendt
07-14-2010, 09:11 AM
I'm on 360, so buttons don't map as you outlined, so I'll have to try out the hot route grouping that you outlined. Didn't know that capability was there so will try it out tonight.
No... that capability is not in there now. I was adding that as a wishlist item. I'll clarify my post.

AustinWolv
07-14-2010, 09:35 AM
Got it, thanks. Yes, that is a solid suggestion.

morsdraconis
07-14-2010, 10:06 AM
As for a wishlist item:
Defensive Hot Routes by Personnel Grouping - the ability when doing hot routes for the defense, you first select personnel grouping (DL, LB, or DB), then select a button coordinating to one of the players in that grouping. So to hot route the MLB to blitz, it would be Square for hot route, L1 for LBs, X for MLB, down R-stick for blitz. It obviously is a several step process, but it's at least better than individually having to try to get to the player you're wanting to change pre-snap and most times not having enough time.

An INCREDIBLY good suggestion.

AustinWolv
07-14-2010, 12:55 PM
Punt formations and trick plays - install the 'rugby-style' punting that a lot of teams are using, along with the trick plays that are inherent out of that set.

Shovel pass - people have been asking for that one for a while now

Onside kick - should have a trick one, instead of the obvious lining up for one view

SmoothPancakes
07-15-2010, 04:06 PM
One that really bothers me. The field goal unit (and punt unit as well if you want to include them). If I drive down to field goal range and have only 10 seconds to kick a game winning field goal, I want to be sweating like a mofo worrying if my field goal unit is gonna haul butt out to the field and get set up fast enough. I hate selecting Field Goal and voila, there they are 1 second later in place, ready to instantly kick a field goal.

Boucher
07-15-2010, 04:36 PM
I wanna see them tighten up locomotion a bit, add a little more weight to the players. Im pretty sure Ian said that Madden added more weight then NCAA so we will see

thetwonewguru
07-16-2010, 05:43 PM
Freshman Quarterbacks/Inexperienced Back-up QB's
These two groups should occasionally mishandle the snap from under center. They should also call out wrong audibles and incorrect hot routes early on. They should get better at this with more game experience. It should not be over done either. Just occasionally. All back-ups and inexperienced guys should play with inexperience. They should also get rattled at Tiger Stadium on a Saturday Night.

Keontez
07-18-2010, 08:26 AM
when players are in defensive coverage, allow them to not just sit in a open area and just cover grass.

Jayrah
07-23-2010, 02:10 AM
Special Teams Overhaul - Other than the addition of Return Middle and Squib Kick this year, we've pretty much had the same all-around special teams for a very long time. I would like to see punts and field goals blocked ON OCCASION without having to type in the Contra Code before hand. Even if you have to "cheat" and have a dice roll of "this guy" misses his block on this attempt, just something to make those kicks more exciting.

Already blocked 2 kicks from the edge in this game. One I came perfect timing and scooted around the blocker on the outside and dove, and the other I cut inside the blocker and punched it back. It was really cool, as I haven't done it in a good 4 seasons. Dice roll low trajectory would be nice. I think it needs to go lower, farther into the line, and then take a rise.

However haven't come close to a punt, don't think I will.

JeffHCross
07-23-2010, 07:23 AM
One that really bothers me. The field goal unit (and punt unit as well if you want to include them). If I drive down to field goal range and have only 10 seconds to kick a game winning field goal, I want to be sweating like a mofo worrying if my field goal unit is gonna haul butt out to the field and get set up fast enough. I hate selecting Field Goal and voila, there they are 1 second later in place, ready to instantly kick a field goal.A return of the need to substitute players, a la NCAA 2000, when players would come in from the sideline, would go a long way in the modern titles, I think.

That said, if they were to put that in, I'd want to see Air Force-esque Quick Changes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJbPjX9B-IQ) be possible.

morsdraconis
07-23-2010, 10:05 AM
That said, if they were to put that in, I'd want to see Air Force-esque Quick Changes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJbPjX9B-IQ) be possible.

Most definitely! That's amazing how quick they did that.

mundo
08-01-2010, 02:34 PM
I like the def hot routes by package as well.

Increased formation audibles - I May be on my own here but I would like an added dimension to the formations audibles. Instead of just "run", it would be nice to be able to pick between "outside" run or "Inside". My thought would be once you select "run" then you pick what type of run you want to keep the 4 direction right stick audible.

Sinister
08-09-2010, 09:13 AM
i read somewhere which i think is true . is to show different caliber qb some who can make passes to the wide hash and others struggle even withthe deep ball or short passing and such. special teams upgrade from punt returns and kick returns to blocks there should be return reverses . even lining up for punts some teams have swinging door . gunners need to be blocked by two guys and they stay on him .

Jayrah
08-13-2010, 09:56 PM
I'd still like to see the addition of football that have a chance of being caught by both offensive and defensive players as they're coming down with it, sort of like Madden's 'fight for the fumble' mechanic, which is something else I'd like to see added to ncaa.

Rudy
09-22-2010, 04:24 AM
Must greatly improve the cpu's ability to run the spread. Either give us an option run blocking slider or boost the cpu (and human a bit) blocking for these plays. They don't work as well as a conventional running play.

Remove the QB slide from this game. That's a Madden/NFL feature that you rarely see in college and it looks dumb when a scrambling QB or a QB running the option tries to dive for more yards and it makes them do a baseball slide.

JeffHCross
09-23-2010, 09:40 PM
Remove the QB slide from this game. That's a Madden/NFL feature that you rarely see in college and it looks dumb when a scrambling QB or a QB running the option tries to dive for more yards and it makes them do a baseball slide.I disagree on this. Plenty of college QB's slide ... practically as many as you see dive, honestly. Most college QBs seem to be too foolish to do either one. I do agree that a QB running the option shouldn't slide, and I have thought that the team did a very good job of choosing when a player slides versus when he dives. I've seen a mix of both this year.

Rudy
09-24-2010, 04:35 AM
I don't see the slide that often when I play but every time I've seen it it's been done wrong. Usually it's because the cpu QB is trying to dive forward for the first down. You can tell that's what the QB wanted to do but the slide kicks in. I haven't seen this done well at all in NCAA 11.

JeffHCross
09-24-2010, 07:45 PM
Well, I'll agree with you that the logic could always use improvement. And I don't see too many running CPU QBs, so I was thinking about when I'm in control.

More than anything I was just putting in my two cents about the idea that college QBs don't slide.

Rudy
09-25-2010, 04:16 AM
I hope they have QBs scramble a lot more next year too. The QB logic is way too similar for all the QBs. I'll never forget one of my first NCAA games ever. That was against Texas A & M in NCAA '06. Reggie McNeal threw for 400 yards against me and also rushed for over 100 yards on scrambles. It was beautiful. Sometimes I think they should go back and study their old scramble logic from the PS2 era.

JeffHCross
09-25-2010, 08:30 AM
I think there are a lot of things from the PS2 days that deserve to be revisited, in terms of logic.

Though, to be fair, the reason Reggie McNeal (or any decent running QB) was able to put up 100+ on NCAA '06 was because of absolutely horrible defensive logic, as much as anything to do with the offense.

Rudy
09-25-2010, 07:24 PM
NCAA 06 was WIDE open gameplay - far more than NCAA 09 imo. It was easier to complete a deep pass than a 5 yard pass in that game. It was a lot of fun but I remember having to go to Heisman to fix some things. Very fond memories though.

Rudy
09-26-2010, 04:10 AM
Two small things that popped into my head recently.

One - kickoffs. There needs to be more variation on the length of the kicks imo. I usually only see a few yards variation when I kick the ball. In real life I will see a kicker put the ball a couple yards deep in the end zone on one kick and the next kick boot it only to the 5 or 6 yard line. Right now the variation in kick length for the user is less than 5 yards unless you are bad with the kick meter. I'd like to see it double.

Two - another difficulty level. I think many of us play at a level between AA and Heisman which a lot of people playing on AA but boosting the cpu to make it harder. I think it might be a good idea to rename All American to All Conference (3rd level) and then add a 4th difficulty level between the current AA and Heisman and call that All American. That would be harder and the folks that don't like to touch sliders would have a nice in between challenge. Again, not a big deal and I'm not sure how much the dev team wants to worry about tuning another difficulty level given their current problems.

Right now Heisman cpu kickers are still attempting way too many long kicks that have 0 chance of crossing the goal post. It's a Heisman only issue so this may be a bad idea.

baseballplyrmvp
09-26-2010, 03:34 PM
ability to pick where we send our guys in motion (like moving a tight end to the other side of the line or put him back in a fullback spot). also should be able to send a guy in motion and then send him back to his original spot mid-motion.

real assignment ai could use some further tweaking. there's a couple instances late in my games, where if the cpu puts 8-9 guys up in the box, my linemen/t-end will get confused on who to block if he's lined up between 2 blitzing defenders. i mostly see this when i'm using a run heavy offense though. on the other hand, i'd like to see d-lineman get double teamed on passing plays. there's no reason for 2 of my o-linemen to just stand there looking for new threats to block. have them engage.

kind of off topic but i would like to see the player discipline aspects brought back. this could tie into gameplay with the addition of a discipline rating. a higher discipline rating would result to a smaller chance of a penalty resulting (linemen false-starting or holding, defensive players facemasking or roughing the passer etc). lower disciplined players would commit more penalties, obviously. additionally, offensive linemen with elite awareness ratings should rarely false start when doing a hard count. same goes for defensive linemen- elite awareness ratings should mean they rarely jump offsides.

Rudy
10-01-2010, 04:05 AM
I'd love to see a gameplan option or an audible option for shading DBs. You should be able to ask them to shade inside or outside to take away slants or quick outs. Giving users more defensive control like this would be nice.

Keontez
10-01-2010, 04:21 PM
Zones players dont really recognize the hot routes. If a play that has a cornerback in the flat and a Deep Safety over the top, and I hot route a LB to a Buzz zones and a Curl flat play is called. You now have two players covering the Curl to that side and no one covering the flat player. What should happen the Flat defender should recognize that somebody has his responsibilty covered and bump down to handle the flat attacker.

Along with this deficiency there should be something done about defenders just covering grass while in zone coverage.

Keontez
10-01-2010, 04:23 PM
I'd love to see a gameplan option or an audible option for shading DBs. You should be able to ask them to shade inside or outside to take away slants or quick outs. Giving users more defensive control like this would be nice.

I remember reading somewhere that in past games that there was a feature in past games that when you shaded inside or outside the corners would play a leverage and reroute receivers, THIS should be introduced back into the game.

JeffHCross
10-01-2010, 05:09 PM
Along with this deficiency there should be something done about defenders just covering grass while in zone coverage.I had a play last week where a player in Buzz Zone came running up full speed to cover a receiver in the flats. It shocked me because I couldn't remember seeing it before. However, the CPU took forever to throw on the play, so I think it happened because the CPU waited long enough that my DB actually went through some kind of progression / reaction process and recognized he needed to play the flat receiver. So maybe all the logic is there, it just doesn't loop fast enough.

Rudy
10-02-2010, 07:19 AM
The biggest difference between the NFL and NCAA is the mobile QB and yet this game does this so poorly. I'd love to see the logic on how often a cpu QB should scramble (almost never in this game) and how they determine it. It should be based on the speed and awareness of the QB. A faster QB should be more likely to take off. The NCAA team adds all these spy options to the game but they are never needed against the cpu. A smarter QB will probably stay in the pocket more as well.

Here's an example of a terrible decision by the cpu QB. He actually looks to scramble (hurray!) but then with nothing but open field and the end zone in front of him he throws it away! Are you kidding me?! The cpu's ability to run the spread and the scramble logic should be the #1 priority next year. Especially with all the buzz surrounding guys like Denard Robinson, Cam Newton, Taylor Martinez, etc. the mobile QB should be a huge emphasis next year. Dreadlocks for Shoelace should also be added.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU1ibEu5BSI

JeffHCross
10-02-2010, 03:41 PM
Oh that was ugly.

psuexv
10-05-2010, 12:17 PM
The ability to stop a guy in motion. In NCAA 08 you could start your WR in motion and then if you wanted to send him back you could stop him half way through the motion and send him back to his original spot.

Also 08 was much easier to motion multiple people if you wanted to.

oweb26
10-05-2010, 01:22 PM
I didnt know you could motion multiple people. Am I missing something?

psuexv
10-05-2010, 01:40 PM
I didnt know you could motion multiple people. Am I missing something?

Not switch multiple players alignment, but you can motion the TE and then motion him back if you don't like the set up and then motion the WR. However it's almost impossible with how slow the motion is. In older games it was easier to do.

Jayrah
10-08-2010, 01:32 AM
OH BOY AM I PISSED! I struggled to make it down the field in the final 58 seconds of the game just now. I had 17 seconds to start a play from the 32 yard line and completed a pass to the 23 (just barely short of a first down and also just barely in my freshman kicker's range). First, the "hop on and try to strip" animation pops in, so my wr takes an extra 2 and 1/2 seconds going to the ground, then with 11 seconds to go, 3 seconds pass by while the interface starts to recognize that a game milestone has been achieved, down to 8. Then the milestone marker pops up and takes another 2 seconds for me to clear, down to 6. Meanwhile this whole time my team is standing in a stupified haze, while I am frantically trying to press the SPIKE IT button. After I click the button we're down to 5, and my team doesn't make it back to the line in time to get a play off!!!!! SO ANGRY AT THE STUPID INTERFACE OF GAME MILESTONES RIGHT NOW! I don't care if I see them, but DO NOT stop the game flow, and continue the game clock, for them to pop up! Are you kidding me EA? This has cost me a shot at a bowl this year as I was 3-6 and desperately trying to get back into the bowl picture with a furious winning streak. Also it has pissed me off, if you couldn't tell. I don't know where this goes so I'm posting on multiple threads! Can't possibly believe it right now. This is officially at the very top of my complaint list!

Keontez
11-02-2010, 07:21 AM
As of Oct. 30 2010... There has been 119 blocked Kicks/Punts..... And yet we still have a blocked kick animation that is used below the 1% percentage.

baseballplyrmvp
11-02-2010, 07:48 PM
i think it'd bring a lot of depth and added strategy to be able to set a gameplan for individual players. the gameplan would have to be expanded, obviously, and probably be updated for the individual positions.

either that, or have your players' ai recognize their certain talents: like if you have a d-end who has an 90 rating for power move and only a 60 rating for finesse move; every snap, that d-end should primarily be using power moves in his line battles.

JeffHCross
11-02-2010, 07:50 PM
I believe it's been written that those types of differences (i.e. a DE that is a better power rusher) is recognized by the engine. But I agree we have no control over it.

jaymo76
11-02-2010, 09:56 PM
As of Oct. 30 2010... There has been 119 blocked Kicks/Punts..... And yet we still have a blocked kick animation that is used below the 1% percentage.

I have not blocked a punt/field goal attempt since NCAA 07 on PS2!!! Also, I have never had a punt blocked against me in the history of the series. Special teams needs a major overhaul IMO.

psuexv
11-03-2010, 07:19 AM
I have not blocked a punt/field goal attempt since NCAA 07 on PS2!!! Also, I have never had a punt blocked against me in the history of the series. Special teams needs a major overhaul IMO.

I can't remember which version it was, but there was one year when you'd actually get bad snaps as well. With all of the improved and expanding individual ratings this should be able to easily be accomplished.

JeffHCross
11-03-2010, 08:22 PM
I can't remember which version it was, but there was one year when you'd actually get bad snaps as well.More than one year ... that was practically 2003 - 07.

jaymo76
11-04-2010, 09:58 PM
More than one year ... that was practically 2003 - 07.

I would love to see a punt / FG kick block slider. Give the control to the user.

Kwizzy
12-17-2010, 10:33 AM
I also posted this in the Animations Forum as well. Mods feel free to move it if you'd like.

WIN/LOSS ANIMATIONS & GAMEPLAY
It seems to me that at the core of a lot of NCAA's gameplay issues is the fact that interactions are so black and white. Either a CB jams the WR and stops them dead at the line for awhile or the WR completely burns the CB and beats him deep. Either the Dlineman throws the blocker completely out of his way, or the Olineman stops him cold. There don't seem to be many animations in this game where one player gets a slight advantage over the other in an interaction. I don't know if that's due to the way the math decides who "wins or looses" an interaction or if it's because the animations don't exist.

I would like to see more "partial win" situations occur and I think it will make a huge impact in gameplay. Football is a game of inches. How much would it impact the game if instead of a DE coming clean after your QB, the Tackle was able to keep just one hand on him and allow your QB to step up slightly and avoid the pressure? How much would Special Teams plays benefit from players fighting all the way down the field against one another. Those types of battles are the things that win or lose football games and I feel that they are undervalued in this series to this point.


* I would also like to see a physics system implemented to interactions. Last year locomotion was introduced to add physics to "anything that isn't considered an interaction". It is now time to introduce these physical laws to blocks, tackles, jump balls, etc... Just as an example, in blocking this would result in better development of running lanes, a better pocket formation, and more "blow up" blocks (just to name a few).

Rudy
12-17-2010, 05:11 PM
That's a great idea. I do think the lack of animations is a big thing holding this game back. We need more variety in styles.

JeffHCross
12-17-2010, 06:29 PM
I don't know if that's due to the way the math decides who "wins or looses" an interaction or if it's because the animations don't exist.Based on evidence at hand, and my conclusions about what their code is like, I'd say your partially right on both aspects. The animations don't exist and haven't been implemented, but that's because the math doesn't allow for non-win/loss sequences to occur. It's pretty clear there are no real "stalemates" in this game, and there's a reason for that. That's been the basis of AI design for a long, long time. You do the math, you get the value for which each side "wins", and you roll. Let's say the WR and CB each have a 50% chance. So you do a roll (random number generator, usually) from 0-99. Anything 0-49, the WR wins. 50-99, the CB wins. Rinse and repeat.

baseballplyrmvp
12-17-2010, 07:03 PM
WIN/LOSS ANIMATIONS & GAMEPLAY
It seems to me that at the core of a lot of NCAA's gameplay issues is the fact that interactions are so black and white. Either a CB jams the WR and stops them dead at the line for awhile or the WR completely burns the CB and beats him deep. Either the Dlineman throws the blocker completely out of his way, or the Olineman stops him cold. There don't seem to be many animations in this game where one player gets a slight advantage over the other in an interaction. I don't know if that's due to the way the math decides who "wins or looses" an interaction or if it's because the animations don't exist.

I would like to see more "partial win" situations occur and I think it will make a huge impact in gameplay. Football is a game of inches. How much would it impact the game if instead of a DE coming clean after your QB, the Tackle was able to keep just one hand on him and allow your QB to step up slightly and avoid the pressure? How much would Special Teams plays benefit from players fighting all the way down the field against one another. Those types of battles are the things that win or lose football games and I feel that they are undervalued in this series to this point. YES! there's too many times where i've noticed that either there's heavy pressure or a perfect pocket is formed. how awesome would it be to see a dominant d-lineman(s) collapse the pocket no matter where he lines up?




* I would also like to see a physics system implemented to interactions. Last year locomotion was introduced to add physics to "anything that isn't considered an interaction". It is now time to introduce these physical laws to blocks, tackles, jump balls, etc... Just as an example, in blocking this would result in better development of running lanes, a better pocket formation, and more "blow up" blocks (just to name a few).
just adding a player's size and weight into the "shoving match" equation would be huge.

JeffHCross
12-17-2010, 09:46 PM
YES! there's too many times where i've noticed that either there's heavy pressure or a perfect pocket is formed. how awesome would it be to see a dominant d-lineman(s) collapse the pocket no matter where he lines up?Along the same lines, but the reverse ... how often do you actually see an offensive line move the line of scrimmage during a running play? In real life ... all the time. In the game? Never. Either the two lines stay even, or the offense gets pancake blocks. There's no movement while engaged in running plays.

Rudy
12-18-2010, 04:26 AM
You are right about the lack of movement Jeff. And the DL are too dominant in this game compared to the LBs imo. DL get an insane of amount of tackles behind the line while LBs don't break blocks nearly as well from what I've seen. I play a 3-4 and when I stuff the run it's usually because a DL made a really good play - not a LB.

And they really need to at least tie weight into the recruit's ratings. Right now weight is 100% random by position and meaningless.

mundo
12-22-2010, 11:49 AM
Love the partial win concept. Going with the 80% rule, I don't think you need to overwhelm the engine with degrees of partial wins. ie, for every pct point closer to 99 on the random generator, the better the db wins (or whoever). If you started with 4 potential outcomes (WR clear win, WR partial win, CB partial win, CB clear win), you would go a long way towards seeing more realistic results.

other things i have thought about
1. Matchup/gameplanning concepts: What if you had a simplistic "heat map" concept for the pregame or during the week on dynasty. Essentially I am thinking a graphically simple screen that has your offense by formation versus the opponents defense by formation and vice versa. You toggle between "run" and "pass" to see where your matchups are favored by an area highlighted in green. I also say "heat map" because it is more than a one on one concept. Its not just about your center vs their MLB in the 4-3, it is how your guards and center matchup to their DTs and and MLB. Obviously this could get really complicated to calculate matchups along the OL if you let it (given different blocking for diff plays), but I don't think you need to get to that level and hit a gnats ass to make it useful, serviceable and fun. It would ultimately be better than going position by position through the depth chart and matchups are a huge part of CFB.

2. Defensive overhaul: You guys have said it well about zone/covering grass AND expanded hot routes. I really think work is needed on general design, alignment/disguising and styles. For example, there are some run fits that i think are missing in the 3-4 - especially involving slants and whatnot with the DL. Also, why are some of the plays in the over/odd,etc not in the "even". Short of a 46 alignment (which hasn't been there for the 3-4), you should probably be able to make a play call and an alignment separate. Obviously some plays don't work as well in some formations as other at times but ultimately it should be there.

As to alignment, it is too difficult at times to get your guys aligned up in time and hide your coverage. And CPU is HORRENDOUS at alignment and disguising, namely with the Nickleback lining up on the short side of the field in zone every time and blitzers going in odd places. It is important that the CPU does it right because you shouldn't have to adjust your entire defense every play.

Furthermore, offense isn't the only side of the ball in CFB with personality. Some DCs prefer man to man (Pellini) and some DCs prefer zone (Deruyter). It would be cool if that was part of calling defense and defining your defense. However, this serves no purpose until things like zones, shading, etc is worked out

3. CPU difficulty: The challenge from the CPU should come from 2 sources: (a) How "good" their players play against you and (b) how smart they play against you and attack your weaknesses. Currently it is all "a" on heisman for me and many on here... and at times it leads to some "slight" anger... for me anyway. I think their is great potential for the CPU to integrate both the "heat map" concept above and your personal playcalling style and history into a fun challenge. After all, I would guess most of us FORCE ourselves to call more than 5 to maybe 10 plays. Even then, a lot of those times those plays may look different, but they are ultimately attacking the same thing (deep middle, flat, MTM on the slot/TE/RB etc). To achieve smarter play, my thoughts were the CPU could do 2 things:
(a) Have an adjustable level of complexity in the AI separate from skill level. For those that want it, the CPU should be all over our 3rd down money play we go to over and over if that is what we do. If we keep getting to third and long, destroy that freshman right tackle and keep us from throwing deep. If we do nothing but pass, change things up and make us work all parts of the field. How they get to that AI....? My first thought is involving more history or more variables as you increase difficulty. I think if you were to involve a play call summary (run/pass) and down tendencies, a chart showing pass results by region, and the heat map above, I think you could come up with a pretty good idea of what someone were trying to do. After all, we are limited in formations, packages and plays in this game even if they had custom playbooks
(b) As said above, effective defenses in technique, alignment, style, etc must happen to have this work. Them running the routes for the WR even when they are not matched up well is not really a challenge, it is the CPU saying "no". Bracket the good receivers, take a way the outs but put some LBs in there to kill the slants, etc etc.

My dos cientos

JeffHCross
12-23-2010, 12:03 AM
mundo, do you play any company's baseball games? I ask because every baseball game inundates the player with a ridiculous amount of analysis ... hot zones, cold zones, how every batter performs against certain pitches, pitch tracking over multiple at-bats, etc. Hell, MLB 2k10 even gave an entire interface of statistics to Sabermetrics themselves.

Anyway, I saw your idea about a heat map, and it made me think about the various things baseball titles have in them. And here's where my question comes in ... does anybody actually use those? It's a solid idea, don't get me wrong, and I always support having options for every type of player. I'm just curious, because I normally consider myself a fairly deep game player, but in the heat of a game I'm rarely looking at any of that information.

Just curious if you played those titles and could give any thoughts.

mundo
12-29-2010, 11:35 AM
I have not played a single one of those games :)... That said, you bring up a good point so I will still give you the thoughts behind why I think it is a good idea. One thing I will say, as it pertains involving statistic results specifically, is that Baseball has such a great focus on so many season stats I can see why so many games would make this effort. In the case of college football and this game, I am more thinking player rating and matchup for purposes of developing a gameplan. And more generally, as this game gets "more realistic" and better at simulating authentic football, game planning (even if very simple) will take more importance. To keep it from rambling I will kinda do why/why not

Why I like it:
-Easier way to do what a lot of people already do. I would be willing to bet a far majority of players take at least a cursory look at the depth charts to see who the opposing good players are and how they compare to yours. Why not put it on one screen in a method easier to digest. Furthermore think about how much fun and easier it could be to see their team for those who enjoy building up the dynasty and try to develop personality with their team
-Gives a start to gameplanning - especially for non cheeseball games with friends online or vs CPU. For those that enjoy getting as much authentic as you can out of the game, this would show "I am strong guard to guard so i am going to pound it inside to suck him inside and catch him with the option"
-Would, theoretically, help the Cpu AI attack you - that is assuming the logic inherent isn't already in there. I mean if you have all these ratings in there, the CPU should be using them on every play. If they do, then surely there is an easy way to show on a screen.

potential problems:
-Has the potential to be a ton of work for something that may not be used at all. If you started to dig deep you could come up with all kinds of ways to put it together and different factors that basically make it some sort of twisted, Chinese Algebra. I still contend there is a fairly concise method that the CPU uses every play, just show the building blocks for this on a screen
-What about during games. Should it update for hot streaks, injuries, etc... no. It is like a gameplanning concept: you look at it before the game, maybe can reference back to it from a pregame perspective, but you have to be able to make the changes on the fly
-What about outside factors like rain, snow, wind... sounds like a can of shit worms to include stuff like this. Just use the basic stuff and adjust on the fly

JeffHCross
12-29-2010, 01:35 PM
Good thoughts, mundo. Thanks.

Rudy
12-30-2010, 05:46 AM
I do like the idea of the game sharing information on the top players on both sides of the ball for both teams. It would add more personality. I bet the casual game never checks the depth chart of his opponent.

JeffHCross
12-30-2010, 12:42 PM
wrong thread

mundo
01-01-2011, 05:13 PM
I know I already chimed in, sorry. I am sitting here watching the TCU and Wisc"ahn"son game and thinking "I want this"...This game is a great representative of what is fun about college football: 2 very good teams that are about 10 times further apart in styles than you could ever possibly get in the NFL. Of all the things that would be cool, the Key things I think that would get the gameplay closer to emulating this game are (1) More locomotion and weight effect (1a) Partial wins involving this concept (RBs falling forward, surges by the OL) (2) Improved defense techniques in coverage and rush angles (3) Improved schemes on both defense (especially the 4-2-5/3-3-5 and run blitzes/slants) and offense (OL blocking schemes and more balanced playbooks)

If they did those three things, this game would go a HUGE way toward that next step to a game alot of people would play well past the football season.

JeffHCross
01-01-2011, 05:45 PM
Mundo, good thoughts. I'm watching the game and thinking the same.

Oneback
01-01-2011, 09:20 PM
I would like the game to be more balanced from the standpoint of on the field action, offensive playbooks and defensive playbooks.

For defensive playbooks I would like to be given the choice of my base defense (43, 34, 42, 33) as it does now but also the style of coverage I prefer, drop zone or pattern matching. Pattern Matching is really matchup man coverage, so if I had a defense that had high awareness and man coverage skills I would choose pattern matching, if I had a defense that had high zone coverage skills I would choose drop zone.

For offense I would like to see the passing game move to more of a modern scheme with passing concepts and tags. I would also like pass blocking schemes added and fully fleshed out running schemes. I would like these things in every playbook and formation.

Running Schemes: Inside Zone, Outside Zone, Trap, Counter, Power, Isolation, and Draw.

Pass Blocking: Drop Back (50, 60/70, 80, and 90 series), Slide Protection (600/700), Out of Pocket Protections (Spint and Naked), and Run Pass Protection (Zone Pass and Counter Pass).

Passing Concepts:: Quick, Corner (Full Field), Two-man game, Numbers, Horizontal, Three-level (Middle vertical), Drag, Corner (Bunched), Three-Level (Oblique Stretch), Vertical concepts.

Passing Tags: Frontside (Switch, Basic, Replace, Pin and Pop, Square, Cube, Burst, Fin, Dolphin), Backside (slide, Baxter, Spot, Texas, Cruise, Cross, Thunder), and Backfield (Box, Burst, Baxter, Bama, Beamer, Dodge) just to name a few.

Basically when calling a play you would first pick a formation, then run/pass, if run you would then pick a run scheme, alignmeent and direction, if pass you would pick a formation, pass concept, blocking scheme, then receiver tags.

Now playbooks would still have all the different formations that they do now, but I would like to see I-Form Normal encompass all the I-Form Normal variants like I-Form Close, etc. The alignment of the receivers would then be based upon the passing concept being run, if a run you would have the choice of changing the alignment of the recievers.

I would also like to introduce coordinators, who would have an effect on play selection, off-season improvement and recruiting.

While each playbook would have the same basic run and pass plays (balancing the playbooks) the coordinators for the CPU would determine which plays are called by weighting each play based on style. For example, Stanford would run a lot of Power in the running game, while Michigan would run more zone read. Same would work on the defensive side, certian coordinators would be pattern match and others zone drop. There would also be weights assigned to plays based on down and distance and opposing team style (Pro, Spread, etc).

To take it one step further adding position coaches would further help in off-season improvement and recruiting, they would also have weights on plays assigned to them for when they get promoted later on.

Yes, that means I would like to see other teams go after coordinators and position coaches.

I would like to see awareness mean something in human games. For example, for the CPU's QB when the quarterback drops back they would have a sphere of awareness around them, the higher the QB's awareness the bigger the sphere so they could sence the rush is getting close. When looking down field at receivers the higher the awareness the bigger the sphere of awareness the QB has of defenders around the receiver. For example the quarterback is throwing a deep in route at 12-14 yards who is being trailed by a safety from over the top, with low awareness the quarterback would have a smaller sphere of awareness around that receiver and not see the OLB on the opposite hash stacking on the blocking halfback and coming underneath the deep in route. The quarterback throws the ball and it's intercepted by the OLB. If the QB had higher awareness he would have seen the stacking OLB.

Also, with higher awareness the quaterback would be able to cycle through receivers quicker, a quarterback with low awareness would only be able to get through two, maybe three recievers before being forced to run or sacked whereas a high awareness QB would be able to scan the entire field and find an open receiver before the rush gets close. Also, due to the higher awareness he would be able to move around within the pocket to buy more time.

JeffHCross
01-01-2011, 09:36 PM
I have really nothing to add to your post except that I would like to see all of that implemented as a new play call selection screen. On the defense, I'd like to see front, then coverage called separately. These would both allow those of us that are among the hardcore to call the game how we want, while not removing the accessibility of the current system.

Madden has something like four levels of playcalling, I see no reason that NCAA shouldn't have the same.

Oneback
01-01-2011, 10:03 PM
I agree, I would love to be able to call defensive line games. Basically you would go into the playcall screen on defense and you'd choose front, then normal or pressure, if normal you would choose line game then coverage, if pressure you would call the blitz as the line game is in concert with the blitz being called.

On offense I would love to hear some sort of communication based on the selections you call. Something like you see the QB in the huddle and you hear him call out "Stack Ace Slot Left P 66 Z Cross, ready Break," or somthing along those lines. Stack signifies the two receivers on the left (X and Slot) align in a stack, Ace Slot Left would be formation and direction, P signifies run fake, the first digit in 66 signifies the pass block scheme, the second 6 is the pass concept being run, Z Cross is the reciever tag.

This would add a lot to the presentation. Along those lines it would also be nice to hear the defensive backfield comunicating with eachother pre-snap to make sure everyone is aligned correctly and has the correct coverage. Also the Linebackers communicating on motion or formation shifts, if the user does any hot routes on the defensive line the MLB steps up, gets that lineman's attention and barks a command.

After the snap linebackers would bark out coverage pickup's and or yell pass, run, screen, etc. Just more things that would add to the presentation of the game.

Rudy
01-02-2011, 06:15 AM
I know I already chimed in, sorry. I am sitting here watching the TCU and Wisc"ahn"son game and thinking "I want this"...This game is a great representative of what is fun about college football: 2 very good teams that are about 10 times further apart in styles than you could ever possibly get in the NFL. Of all the things that would be cool, the Key things I think that would get the gameplay closer to emulating this game are (1) More locomotion and weight effect (1a) Partial wins involving this concept (RBs falling forward, surges by the OL) (2) Improved defense techniques in coverage and rush angles (3) Improved schemes on both defense (especially the 4-2-5/3-3-5 and run blitzes/slants) and offense (OL blocking schemes and more balanced playbooks)

If they did those three things, this game would go a HUGE way toward that next step to a game alot of people would play well past the football season.

More weight and momentum is big for me but to take another thought from the Rose Bowl - they talked about leverage all game long on defense. It's about funneling the plays back to the defenders. There were a lot of broken tackles - not monster ones but broken arm tackles and in NCAA 11 a broken tackle often leads to a huge gain. In real life it can happen as well but it usually leads to a few more yards until a pile of defenders get there. Gang tackling in NCAA 11 is awful. The bowling pin effect needs to be replaced ASAP. Not being able to help out on a tackle really hurts.

ryby6969
01-02-2011, 10:11 AM
More weight and momentum is big for me but to take another thought from the Rose Bowl - they talked about leverage all game long on defense. It's about funneling the plays back to the defenders. There were a lot of broken tackles - not monster ones but broken arm tackles and in NCAA 11 a broken tackle often leads to a huge gain. In real life it can happen as well but it usually leads to a few more yards until a pile of defenders get there. Gang tackling in NCAA 11 is awful. The bowling pin effect needs to be replaced ASAP. Not being able to help out on a tackle really hurts.

This is huge for me. It is almost like you are penalized for having a fast team with good pursuit. You get 3 or 4 guys to the ball carrier but only 1 maybe 2 even attempt to tackle. The rest bounce off and if the ball carrier gets away from the actual tacklers, it is almost always 6 points. I also want to be able to punish a ball carrier if he is fighting for yards repeatedly. If he is being held up by my teammate(s), I should be able to come in and finish him off strong. This is how a good percentage of fumbles are created and we are really missing that.

mundo
01-02-2011, 03:03 PM
I agree with what you are saying OneBack and what resonates with me most is better balance and more depth in playcalling. I don't think it can't be solved completely with the custom playbook concept. First, the plays in total (while better than they have been) are not thorough in concept that would give you ability to adjust and are too rigid by formation to be able to be truly balanced. Secondly, there needs to be more depth in your ability to adjust player groupings or packages, especially on defense. Ultimately you need to be able to have a better ability to adjust what your LBs, DL and DBs are doing than the limited LB, Dl and DB audibles they give you and individual hot routs. I also wish you could adjust OL blocking at times as well (zone vs man for example)

Along these lines the "tied" play don't make a whole lot of sense as is either. Running the ball out of the "I" with success doesn't only affect pa passes that look exactly like runs you have run.

Obviously this can get complex as hades if you let it... but you don't have to go all out on these concepts to add the fun aspects of what we are talking about.

Agree with you Rudy on the extra yards and the gang tackling as well.

Oneback
01-02-2011, 04:53 PM
You are correct running the ball should have an effect on all play-action. Once a team has established its ability to run the ball the linebackers will always step up to fill the lanes on play-action, just go watch the Rose Bowl game from yesterday.

A football game is a constaint tug and pull of the offense and defense trying to move eachother to one side of the centerline. The more you throw the ball the more the defensive ends start flying upfield and linebackers drop quickly to get to their spots, so you call a screen or draw to bring them back to the centerline or play more honest. Same goes for running the ball, a safety might get tired of watching you break big gains up the middle, so he begins to cheat up. Now you go play-action and make him pay for his impatience. The outside linebackers may cheat in for the same reason. You throw the bubble screen and the bootlegs to make them pay for their impatience. Once you begin to beat them with play-action, bootlegs, and bubble screens they will return to playing more honest or closer to the centerline.

I would love to see this type of dynamic in the game. Right now I feel as though if my running game starts rolling (even against an equal team) there is nothing my oppoent can do to stop it. I can just keep running the ball and have to do nothing to change the way the defense plays to start having success running the ball again.

Rudy
01-03-2011, 06:45 AM
You are correct running the ball should have an effect on all play-action. Once a team has established its ability to run the ball the linebackers will always step up to fill the lanes on play-action, just go watch the Rose Bowl game from yesterday.

Couldn't agree more with this. I don't like the way ties two plays together to set them up although I don't know all the ratings calculations under the hood. You can set teams up with certain looks but a successful ground game should make all PA plays more successful. Of course that's a moot point since play action sucks in NCAA 11. DL play recognition is WAY too high and they just aren't fooled enough. I had an All American DE (rated around 97) immediately run to cover the cpu RB on a screen play. Granted the guy is a good player but he should at least take one or two steps upfield before diagnosing it.

cdj
01-24-2011, 11:49 PM
I'm not sure what percentage of the time this happens, but there's something that causes CPU runners (QB/RB) to actually run towards defenders/contact and it seems to primarily happen within a couple of yards from the LOS. I'll have to try and make a video sometime. It seems to be one of the reasons why the CPU running attack is so impotent. Anyone else see this a lot?

Rudy
01-25-2011, 04:11 AM
Yeah, they don't make the right reads and it happens too often. It's why guys love to play online - to get a better opponent. I'd love it if we could play the cpu someday and not be able to tell it's the cpu. I still believe getting AI to work right in a football game is by far the hardest of any sport. It has more players and more plays and strategies than anything out there. I don't want that to be an excuse for not getting it better but it is tough.

Kwizzy
01-25-2011, 05:22 AM
I'm not sure what percentage of the time this happens, but there's something that causes CPU runners (QB/RB) to actually run towards defenders/contact and it seems to primarily happen within a couple of yards from the LOS. I'll have to try and make a video sometime. It seems to be one of the reasons why the CPU running attack is so impotent. Anyone else see this a lot?

I have a video of this on my phone CDJ, I will try to pull it off when I get a chance and send it to you. The CPU HB makes a great cut in the backfield to get outside & if he would've kept pushing it to the outside he might've been gone (40 yds minimum), but instead he tried to cut it upfield and ran right into the linebacker.

cdj
01-25-2011, 06:39 AM
It seems like the logic/coding may tell them (when within X yards of the LOS) to run off of blocks when they could just run to daylight. That logic typically makes sense (not on anything to the outside though and that's where I see it most) but the man being blocked usually comes right off the block and makes the tackle, turning what should be a 5+ yard run by the CPU into a 1-yard gain at best.

Agreed, Rudy. We've come a long ways, but I also think this is the toughest sport to program. Just so many variables and factors involved.

JeffHCross
01-25-2011, 06:38 PM
I think the problem is that we have two conflicting pieces of logic. On NCAA 10, the CPU HB would try to get outside and avoid the defenders, often to their detriment. In NCAA 11, the HB is instructed to get upfield and gain what they can. Those two tendencies have to be in balance. Instead, I think we have a situation where one happens, or the other, but they're mutually exclusive and not working together.

And Rudy, you're completely right. Football AI is well considered one of the hardest in the discipline. One way I often talk about it is "Imagine programming every piece of instruction a coach has ever given you about how to play football". That's nearly impossible to fully encompass.

Kwizzy
01-26-2011, 04:03 PM
I think the problem is that we have two conflicting pieces of logic. On NCAA 10, the CPU HB would try to get outside and avoid the defenders, often to their detriment. In NCAA 11, the HB is instructed to get upfield and gain what they can. Those two tendencies have to be in balance. Instead, I think we have a situation where one happens, or the other, but they're mutually exclusive and not working together..

Absolutely Jeff. Well said.

mundo
01-31-2011, 08:30 PM
Well said Rudy

Kwizzy
02-09-2011, 07:03 AM
I was playing a game the other day and messing with sliders to try to get a more realistic CPU run game and I decided that there is some (perhaps) minor tweaking that COULD go a long way in letting us boost the CPU running without making it over powered. Currently as you boost the RB Ability slider the rbs will make more decisive and smart cuts which is awesome, what is not great is how many tackles they break as the slider increases. What ends up happening is that runs that should be in the 4-8 yd range end up being HUGE chunks of yards quite frequently.

I think that if they looked into reducing the RB Ability slider's effect on broken tackles it may allow for more fine tuningin the run game.

JeffHCross
02-09-2011, 07:41 PM
Any idea if we could offset that by increasing the tackling ability of the defense? That might help.

Rudy
02-10-2011, 09:06 PM
I was playing a game the other day and messing with sliders to try to get a more realistic CPU run game and I decided that there is some (perhaps) minor tweaking that COULD go a long way in letting us boost the CPU running without making it over powered. Currently as you boost the RB Ability slider the rbs will make more decisive and smart cuts which is awesome, what is not great is how many tackles they break as the slider increases. What ends up happening is that runs that should be in the 4-8 yd range end up being HUGE chunks of yards quite frequently.

I think that if they looked into reducing the RB Ability slider's effect on broken tackles it may allow for more fine tuningin the run game.

You can fix the broken tackles with the tackle slider. My biggest beef is that I wish the RBA slider wouldn't affect speed. Make them cut faster, do more moves, make better decisions and break tackles but don't make them faster. I normally have to boost the cpu RBA to make the cpu game competent but once you get to 65 or 70 the cpu RBs all feature breakaway speed. I don't want an 85 speed RB from the cpu running away from my 95 speed DB. I just want him more dangerous within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage.

But I think the biggest issue here is that the physics engine fails the running game. Breaking arm tackles and having multiple defenders bring down RBs is a huge part of football. Also I still think a RB accelerates too quickly to top speed in the game. In real life when a RB will break a tackle but be slowed down and is caught sooner than later. The day EA makes it so that I can truly pile on the RB without fear of bouncing off because of an imaginary forcefield or some animation kicking in will be the day the running game really takes the next step.

Kwizzy
02-11-2011, 08:30 AM
The only problem with offsetting that with the tackle slider is that it closes up those initial holes in the line because it increases the distance that the DLineman suction on to the RB IMO.

Rudy couldn't agree more. Boosting the sliders should enhance the importance of ratings IMO rather than making them almost irrelevant. I'm definitely tired of nobody state playing like they're LSU because I boosted the sliders while the same changes have a minimal effect on the tougher teams (IMO).

JeffHCross
02-12-2011, 12:37 AM
Agreed. I think sliders lowers the rating players have to be at for the "advanced" animations to happen. But players who are already at that level (i.e. the guys on quality teams) won't be affected because they're already there.

Rudy
02-13-2011, 02:57 AM
That's why I would love to see a talent threshold slider in the game, not just speed. Let's create a bigger gap between good and bad players.

As far as the cpu running game is concerned, I think we are doomed with this development team. I have never found the cpu running game to be even remotely competent on AA default. They just flat out suck at running the ball for the hardcore NCAA fan. You have to do massive changes to cpu run blocking and cpu RBA and sometimes it's very hard to get the cpu to have a consistently good running game without turning every mediocre back into a great one. I really wish the cpu running game on AA (that's supposed to be for good players, casuals should be using default Varsity) was tuned better. And yet the NCAA dev team states they play on AA default and don't see a problem. Many of us here couldn't believe how the second patch ruined the cpu running game on AA and this went unnoticed by them. There is a real disconnect between these devs skills and ours in some areas I believe.

Most casual fans hate the cpu running on them. They curse up a storm if the cpu rushes for 100 yards while getting pissed if they don't run for 100 yards in a game. But AA is supposed to be a better difficulty level. Many people avoid Heisman because it's significantly harder. It would be awful nice to have another difficulty in between these two. I would say a majority of slider sets on major gaming sites are on AA but are designed to make the game harder. Why not create an extra difficulty level that would be a more natural fit between AA and Heisman? I know I live somewhere in that range myself.

baseballplyrmvp
02-13-2011, 09:03 AM
That's why I would love to see a talent threshold slider in the game, not just speed. Let's create a bigger gap between good and bad players. wouldnt this be accomplished by making the ratings more spread out? i think that once you get into the elite players in ncaa, everyone sort of turns into a god, where every rating they need to have is at least 80+. if the ratings scale were changed to 0-100 instead of 40 or 50-100, i think you'd see more situational players, and automatically see the gap between the bad, average, good, and elite players.

JeffHCross
02-13-2011, 09:31 AM
wouldnt this be accomplished by making the ratings more spread out? i think that once you get into the elite players in ncaa, everyone sort of turns into a god, where every rating they need to have is at least 80+. if the ratings scale were changed to 0-100 instead of 40 or 50-100, i think you'd see more situational players, and automatically see the gap between the bad, average, good, and elite players.Two things work against you there. First, it's clear they don't really want a spread out roster, because even though we have 40-100, how many players are in the 50s and 60s? Not too many, even on the lowest level teams. Every few years the spread gets tighter and tighter.

Second, being realistic, how likely would we be to see a 7 OVR player, or a 15 OVR? I don't think anyone would actually be willing to rate someone that low, so the artificial floor is probably semi-realistic.

I believe actual ratings can go from 0-100 now, I know I see recruits come in with 15 in TAK or whatever from time to time. OVR is just a number anyway.

baseballplyrmvp
02-13-2011, 11:12 AM
Two things work against you there. First, it's clear they don't really want a spread out roster, because even though we have 40-100, how many players are in the 50s and 60s? Not too many, even on the lowest level teams. Every few years the spread gets tighter and tighter.

Second, being realistic, how likely would we be to see a 7 OVR player, or a 15 OVR? I don't think anyone would actually be willing to rate someone that low, so the artificial floor is probably semi-realistic.

I believe actual ratings can go from 0-100 now, I know I see recruits come in with 15 in TAK or whatever from time to time. OVR is just a number anyway.you're never gonna get a player rated 7 overall. the absolute lowest you can go is 40 overall. as far as seeing tackling ratings of 15, those are probably for offensive players, kickers and punters.

as far as spreading out the ratings, here is what i meant. on ncaa 10 (default rosters), terrance cody had a power move rating of 89 and a finesse move rating of 79! on madden 11, his power move rating jumped to 98 while his finesse move rating dropped to 30. this sort of thing happens all the time- where players are too well rounded in all ratings they need to have (defensive players need defensive ratings and vice versa). when i say spreading out the ratings, this is the kind of example that i refer to. there's really no separation between elite and average.

i look at madden and the game plays a lot better- as far as seeing the difference between the elite, good, average, and players who suck. this isnt reflected very well at all in ncaa....and i guess, that this is something that i'd like ncaa to adopt.

JeffHCross
02-13-2011, 03:03 PM
you're never gonna get a player rated 7 overall. the absolute lowest you can go is 40 overall.... Yes, I know that. I was saying that if you expand the ratings to 0-100, you're still not going to see horribly low rated players; in fact, it probably won't change much from the current range, since they've been shortening it every year.

this isnt reflected very well at all in ncaa....and i guess, that this is something that i'd like ncaa to adopt.I can agree with this.

Rudy
02-14-2011, 05:27 PM
wouldnt this be accomplished by making the ratings more spread out? i think that once you get into the elite players in ncaa, everyone sort of turns into a god, where every rating they need to have is at least 80+. if the ratings scale were changed to 0-100 instead of 40 or 50-100, i think you'd see more situational players, and automatically see the gap between the bad, average, good, and elite players.

I agree that spreading out the ratings a little more would accomplish it but if they choose not to this tool would allow us to tweak the game as we see fit.

MCdonnieG
02-17-2011, 08:29 AM
Gameplay Improvements....

1) More running styles would be nice...it would definitely add more depth to an already great mo-cap system

2) I would love to see the "helmets pop off" feature make it into next-gen gaming...I know it doesn't happen often but man would it be nice to see in the game!

3) Unsportsmanlike conduct...such as excessive celebration(spiking the ball), taunting(high stepping) these thing are subtle but add depth to gameplay as well.

That's all I could think of off the top of my dome right now...I'l post more when it comes to mind!

JeffHCross
02-17-2011, 07:13 PM
2) I would love to see the "helmets pop off" feature make it into next-gen gaming...I know it doesn't happen often but man would it be nice to see in the game!Since the NCAA has some level of content approval for the series, I'd be very, very surprised to see something like this, since that's not something they would encourage players trying to do on the field.

gschwendt
02-17-2011, 07:22 PM
Since the NCAA has some level of content approval for the series, I'd be very, very surprised to see something like this, since that's not something they would encourage players trying to do on the field.
True... though it was on the Xbox version of last gen.

JeffHCross
02-17-2011, 07:25 PM
True... though it was on the Xbox version of last gen.Yeah, but there are several things in previous versions that I can't see getting added again. Plus, there's been a significantly higher crack down on helmets flying off and big hits in recent years than there was before.

baseballplyrmvp
02-17-2011, 10:12 PM
arent the helmets joined to the heads? so if you tried removing the helmet, you'd just see the guy's face and not the rest of his head. same kinda thing with the jersey and pants- if you tried taking them off, you'd see a blank area instead of seeing all of the pads. (i didnt intend for that to sound ***)

steelerfan
02-18-2011, 11:23 AM
(i didnt intend for that to sound ***)

But it did. :D :D

JeffHCross
02-18-2011, 04:47 PM
arent the helmets joined to the heads? so if you tried removing the helmet, you'd just see the guy's face and not the rest of his head.Perhaps, as the models stand now. Obviously that would have to change if they were to add in flying helmets.

Rudy
02-19-2011, 07:32 AM
Jeff and Tommy's avatars are too similar. Anyone else get confused as to who is talking when taking a quick glance at the thread or is it just me?
:dunno:

steelerfan
02-19-2011, 08:04 AM
Jeff and Tommy's avatars are too similar. Anyone else get confused as to who is talking when taking a quick glance at the thread or is it just me?
:dunno:

I think it's just you. I've yet to be bamboozled.

JeffHCross
02-19-2011, 01:10 PM
Jeff and Tommy's avatars are too similar. Anyone else get confused as to who is talking when taking a quick glance at the thread or is it just me?One's real ... one's from the game. I don't see this as a problem, lol :D EA would love for the two to get more often confused!

psuexv
02-21-2011, 09:40 AM
It would be nice if when you are on the goaline the camera zoomed back as it normally does on any other play after the snap instead of basically going straight up.

JeffHCross
02-21-2011, 06:19 PM
You mean when you're at your own goalline, Eric? Or deep in an opponent's territory? Haven't noticed anything on the latter.

On the former, there's a reason, and it's the restriction of the model of the stadium you're playing in. You'll see different behavior depending on the stadium. I know on NCAA 10 that you could use Coach Cam inside Tulsa's stadium and you might find yourself inside the Field House.

psuexv
02-21-2011, 06:34 PM
Yeah sorry, when either I'm backed up or I have an opponent backed up. I understand the rationale but you would think there would be a way to draw back in that particular situation. Yes it has been an issue for as long as I've been playing.

zacattak
04-23-2011, 11:49 AM
Freshman Quarterbacks/Inexperienced Back-up QB's
These two groups should occasionally mishandle the snap from under center. They should also call out wrong audibles and incorrect hot routes early on. They should get better at this with more game experience. It should not be over done either. Just occasionally. All back-ups and inexperienced guys should play with inexperience. They should also get rattled at Tiger Stadium on a Saturday Night.

Well said sir. well said.

zacattak
04-23-2011, 12:57 PM
my complain come from the defensive stand point. as much as i love defense, and love the defensive play of the game. there need to be corrections made for the following...

1. DE pass rushing sucks.. seems like they run down then make a 90 degree turn to the qb. never fails they always get there a millisecond too late.

2. i dont like that the d line jumps and blocks every pass!. they are tied up blocking. they wont be able to jump every time. esp not without getting knocked on their @...

3. if you throw as your getting hit, it seems to always get picked by a d lineman.. tell me how a d line man has amazing hands but a corner or safety cant catch a pass right to them???

4. not enough penalties. i know its a game, but it is supposed to represent true events. and most college games have at least 5+ penalties a game by each team... the CPU never commits pass interferance, late hits, holding, roughing, things like that. only penalty i see is when i hard count and they jump offsides.

5. and the fact that a cb can run the route before the wr... but the wr can "moonwalk" 3 steps to make a catch in front of him.

6. i would like to see more cpu open field moved.. they never try to stip arm juke, spin. in the open field.. or not that i have seen.

7. stop making linebackers and cb's able to jump up 12 feet and tip or intercept a ball. i can throw a 25 yard post rout in between the safetys but to no avail the lb jumps and intercepts or knocks it down. it should be over his head!!!

i know this game is defensive heavy, and i liek it, but it needs some tweaks and fixes.

psuexv
06-21-2011, 12:20 PM
Hopefully the tuned down the no huddle offense for the CPU in '12. It seems way too many teams are running a no huddle offense. Prime example. Playing in an OD game against a user who was Texas. He runs the ball and plays a not fast tempo game. We got disconnected and we decided I should finish the game. The rest of the way Texas ran a no huddle.

lilblaze
07-10-2011, 04:37 AM
I want to see a complete special teams overhaul as well.

PART 1
1.) If a Kicker has low awareness and or kick accuracy, the "Kick Arrow" should shake violently in all directions like play-art does. You will have to manually adjust the accuracy with the Left Analog Stick and hold it there until you execute your kick with the Right Analog Stick. I feel if we can get this in the game, having a solid and well rounded kicker will actually be the factor that decides games like they should. (No more abusing guys with a boot and rockets attached to it.)

2.) Certain teams have "Reverse" plays in their arsenal as Special Teams is a big factor in deciding games. Since Special Teams cannot be edited in the Custom Playbook in 12, certain teams who have ran it should have this staple in their Call Sheet. This is something new and refreshing, the key to moving the ball is to keep defenders minds cloudy - in all aspects of offense, including Special Teams.

PART 2
I also want to see complete Ball-Carrier control. So many times I see run plays being called that are destined to be blown up because you can only cut so many seconds after the ball has been delivered. If it's an inside handoff to play up the Right A-Gap and theres penetration between between the Right B-Gap, I need to be able to bounce it in either direction asap. For instance, my line is Zone Blocking and my Left Guard/Tackle has cleaned up the Left B-Gap vs an Odd Stack front; I should be able to hit that hole for easy yards. If I'm not Juking and I'm not running straight, my body should be facing toward the sideline I'm running to; with the exception of my head. I hate the side step, slide running they displayed in 11. I shouldn't be picking plays that are supposed to work when my personnel doesn't.

PART 3
I want the game Camera to Zoom Out properly when executing Triple Option Passes, from both Under Center and in the Shotgun/Pistol. I need to be able to diagnose the heat and know if I'll have enough time to 'pass' the rock, instead of always having to hand it off and accepting the loss.

PART 3
Formation Shifting with Dynamic Play Adjustments
This one is pretty straight forward; Allow me to shift my Running Back and Tight End 'down' or 'up' to create an offset look in the Shotgun. This allows us to get creative, without having gimmick plays in formations that work all the time.

Dynamic Play Adjustments Explained:
Ex.) I call HB Sweep out of Shotgun: Y-Trips HB WK and formation shift my Halfback down, to create an Offset look. This will enable me to receive an inside handoff and bounce it up field quick (North/South). It will still be called an HB Sweep, but can be ran like an Off Tackle play with the ability to cut up your opponent. If you're going to be calling your plays, might as well run them how you want. (Considering it's a legal shift.)

Also, since EA likes making shit easy for us, we shouldn't have to worry about Illegal Shifting penalties since they automatically adjust our players.