So they haven't touched Coaching Carousel for NCAA 13, correct?

[jcarne7]

I may not buy the game if this is so. One of the best new features in years and I get to see the UAB defensive coordinator get hired as Florida HC and almost no HCs move at all. Terrible.

[gschwendt]

You're correct... no real changes to Coaching Carousel this year.

[pantherone26]

Hopefully they've tuned it though. Massive changes may lead to more problems. I'd rather this feature work and work well before any real changes to it.

[SmoothPancakes]

I may not buy the game if this is so. One of the best new features in years and I get to see the UAB defensive coordinator get hired as Florida HC and almost no HCs move at all. Terrible.

Almost no HC movement at all? Are we playing the same game? In the first year of my dynasty, I had 7 head coaches get fired, out of 28 total coaching changes that offseason. In the second year, I had 17 head coaches fired, out of 61 total coaching changes that year. So 25% of coaching changes my first year was head coaches, and 28% of coaching changes my second year was head coaches.

Those numbers seem pretty good to me. There were 26 head coaching changes in real life heading into the 2012 season, so my second year wasn't far off from the real life totals, and year one was low altogether, probably because all the coaches were starting new with coaching contracts in the game, so only those who truly bombed and failed goals left and right were canned or left for an open job that offseason.

[jaymo76]

I too am dissapointed that nothing else was added to the carousel. I really wanted to hire and fire coordinators. However, I enjoyed the addition last year and will continue to do so this year. Most years (and I played 8 seasons) there were a ton of moves. The one thing I would like to see more of though is defensive coordinators getting more shots at HC jobs. It is heavily slanted towards OC's in my experience.

[Geauxlden]

Count me in as hoping that this feature was at least tuned. I thought that the contracts of coaches, especially when taking a new job, were poorly done. Head coaches don't sign 1-year deals when they take a new job, unless they happen to be John L. Smith filling in for Bobby Petrino. I'd also hope that goals/expectations have been tweaked considering that I saw coaches have winning seasons at horrible programs but end up being fired.

[baseballplyrmvp]

Count me in as hoping that this feature was at least tuned. I thought that the contracts of coaches, especially when taking a new job, were poorly done. Head coaches don't sign 1-year deals when they take a new job, unless they happen to be John L. Smith filling in for Bobby Petrino. I'd also hope that goals/expectations have been tweaked considering that I saw coaches have winning seasons at horrible programs but end up being fired.ya, :+1: for hopefully tweaking the gaols in CC.

i got annoyed seeing contracts where 3 of the 12 goals were: win 3 games in one season, win 5 games in one season, and win 7 games in one season. worse yet, was get 2800 offensive yards, and get 3200 offensive yards. i can see having two goals of the same criteria, but when they're that close together, its kinda dumb.

[JeffHCross]

On the one hand, I agree with you MVP, but when you looked at the positive/negative affect of reaching each of those goals, it did make sense to have multiple goals for each. Though I do agree that they could be slightly more spread.

[souljahbill]

What I don't like is HCs leaving to be coordinators. No head coach would leave that position to become a coordinator at another school.

[baseballplyrmvp]

On the one hand, I agree with you MVP, but when you looked at the positive/negative affect of reaching each of those goals, it did make sense to have multiple goals for each. Though I do agree that they could be slightly more spread.ya, i realize that the offensive goals for coaches mostly only have a positive effect; i just want to see more kinds of specific goals out there. the plain old "get 3200 offensive yards" contract goals arent any challenge at all (they might be for JB). its the goals like, "get 2500 yards rushing in one season," "complete 65% of your passes in one season," etc. that i like working towards.

if i'm a run & shoot oc, i want to see contract goals like, "have 2 1000 yard wr's in one season," "get 100 receptions in one season with a wr," "be a top 5 passing offense for the life of your contract," etc. this is just one specific example, but still, they need more goals that only apply to certain offenses/defenses. new contract goals might be something that we could make a list of for different kinds of play styles and submit em to ea.

[SmoothPancakes]

What I don't like is HCs leaving to be coordinators. No head coach would leave that position to become a coordinator at another school.

Well, I don't know about no head coach. If you were the head coach of Utah State, New Mexico, New Mexico State, etc, suffering through losing season after losing season, it's only a matter of time before you inevitably get canned, you wouldn't jump ship to be a coordinator at Ohio State in Urban Meyer's offense, or someone like Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Auburn, etc, and have a chance at keeping a positive mark on your coaching record for another potential head coach job down the road?

[baseballplyrmvp]

What I don't like is HCs leaving to be coordinators. No head coach would leave that position to become a coordinator at another school.to add onto this, head coaches should only have one playbook they're attached to. i know we can all point out specific examples, but one thing that i continually see year after year in my offline dynasties, is that former :Hawaii: HC greg mcmackin is fired and then takes the reigns as an offensive coordinator. mack has always been a defensive minded coach. he was a former DC for the seattle seahawks, a dc for numerous other teams, and even in his tenure as the HC of :Hawaii:, he always kept a hands off approach when working with the offense. when working with the defense though, he was actively coaching.

to change this in the game would add a lot more logic in the hirings/firings. i also have an idea relating to every coach having a position familiarity, which would offer more progression at some positions and less at others, but i think other areas need to be focused on in CC before something like that is put in next year's game.

[souljahbill]

Well, I don't know about no head coach. If you were the head coach of Utah State, New Mexico, New Mexico State, etc, suffering through losing season after losing season, it's only a matter of time before you inevitably get canned, you wouldn't jump ship to be a coordinator at Ohio State in Urban Meyer's offense, or someone like Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Auburn, etc, and have a chance at keeping a positive mark on your coaching record for another potential head coach job down the road?

I can't see the HC at Eastern Michigan leaving (while under contract) to be a coordinator at Michigan. After he gets canned, yeah he'd take it. But to actually leave the HC position to be a coordinator? Nope.

[jcarne7]

Almost no HC movement at all? Are we playing the same game? In the first year of my dynasty, I had 7 head coaches get fired, out of 28 total coaching changes that offseason. In the second year, I had 17 head coaches fired, out of 61 total coaching changes that year. So 25% of coaching changes my first year was head coaches, and 28% of coaching changes my second year was head coaches.

Those numbers seem pretty good to me. There were 26 head coaching changes in real life heading into the 2012 season, so my second year wasn't far off from the real life totals, and year one was low altogether, probably because all the coaches were starting new with coaching contracts in the game, so only those who truly bombed and failed goals left and right were canned or left for an open job that offseason.

I meant like if the head coach at Ole Miss does well he gets hired at a bigger school. That didn't really ever happen.

[jcarne7]

I can't see the HC at Eastern Michigan leaving (while under contract) to be a coordinator at Michigan. After he gets canned, yeah he'd take it. But to actually leave the HC position to be a coordinator? Nope.

Yeah that was awful too

[jcarne7]

Well, I don't know about no head coach. If you were the head coach of Utah State, New Mexico, New Mexico State, etc, suffering through losing season after losing season, it's only a matter of time before you inevitably get canned, you wouldn't jump ship to be a coordinator at Ohio State in Urban Meyer's offense, or someone like Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Auburn, etc, and have a chance at keeping a positive mark on your coaching record for another potential head coach job down the road?

I have never seen this happen before

[SmoothPancakes]

I meant like if the head coach at Ole Miss does well he gets hired at a bigger school. That didn't really ever happen.

Ah, ok, I misunderstood what you were saying in your original post then.


I can't see the HC at Eastern Michigan leaving (while under contract) to be a coordinator at Michigan. After he gets canned, yeah he'd take it. But to actually leave the HC position to be a coordinator? Nope.

Well, I'm looking at it from a business standpoint, which is exactly what it is for coaches. If I'm coaching at New Mexico State (which is almost always bad), and after two years there with little success, I know it's only a matter of time before I'm fired (probably almost guaranteed after the completion of my third season) and I have a guaranteed offer to come be the OC or DC at a major school, which would be the better option for me, my family and my career?

Stick it out that last year, get fired, and have absolutely no clue what my future is going to be and where I'm going to land? Or jump ship before that next season for a coordinator position at a major university like Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Alabama, etc, one that wants me, one that I have a job already lined up with, one that will continue to provide financially for my family, and one that I know exactly where I am going and where I will be living and working ahead of time?

I'm also looking at it from a resume standpoint. Which is going to be better? That you were the head coach someplace for two years, didn't do great, left to become the coordinator under a great head coach (thus expanding your coaching knowledge even more by coaching under them and learning from them), enjoyed success of being part of that system for a number of years, and are now ready to try to find success as a head coach again? Or that you were the head coach someplace for three years, got fired because you sucked so bad, and then ended up as the coordinator at some other bottom feeder team because they were the only ones who would take you?

While having your resume show you jumped ship for another job instead of going through another year of utter failure before inevitably being fired might not look great by itself, coaches leave for other jobs on other teams all the time, every season. So having your resume show that you left to coach at a prestigious university under a top name head coach instead of suffering through a third year just to end up fired probably wouldn't be as big of a negative against your chances at getting hired as a head coach down the road as having your resume say you were fired from so and so would.

Now would 99.9% of coaches in real life do this? No, otherwise you wouldn't have guys like Hal Mumme going 11-38 over 4 years at New Mexico State before getting canned. But I can see logical reasons for why someone would do something like what I said, and that's where there is always the 0.1% chance of it actually happening. Now should it happen a lot in NCAA? No, but I have no qualms if it were to happen once every season or every other season.


I have never seen this happen before

Neither have I, but there is always the possibility of it happening, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see it actually happen someday.

[baseballplyrmvp]

I have never seen this happen beforemike stoops got fired this past year from arizona, and is now the co-defensive coordinator and secondaries coach at oklahoma.

ed orgeron also did it by being the d-line coach at :USC:, leaving to become the head coach of ole miss, then taking a d-line job in the nfl for the saints, then dropping back down to being the d-line coach of tennessee and now back to :USC:

so yes, coaches do leave to take lower positions at other ranks. its not like a HC will always stay at the HC ranks.

[Geauxlden]

Those coaches were fired, they didn't just leave a HC job for a lesser position voluntarily. In the game HCs have left for coordinator jobs without being fired.


mike stoops got fired this past year from arizona, and is now the co-defensive coordinator and secondaries coach at oklahoma.

ed orgeron also did it by being the d-line coach at :USC:, leaving to become the head coach of ole miss, then taking a d-line job in the nfl for the saints, then dropping back down to being the d-line coach of tennessee and now back to :USC:

so yes, coaches do leave to take lower positions at other ranks. its not like a HC will always stay at the HC ranks.

[souljahbill]

Here's my story. I started my dynasty with a 1* Teambuilder team as a DC. After getting my ass handed to me for many years, we finally got some players, got good, and eventually won the National Championship. I got offered a new 4-year extension after the championship after completing 1 year of the 3 year deal I signed a season earlier. I declined the extension because I saw the USM HC coach was on the hot seat and lo and behold, he got fired and I got the job. We go 10-3 in year 1. So the next offseason starts and for some reason, Air Force believes I should be happy to be offered their DC job. WHAT?!?! But let's say for the sake of argument that we went 0-12 and and the team was BigNameSchoolU, what coach would leave a HC to be a coordinator at BigNameSchoolU without being fired first?

[roccogator]

The issue is a Div I/FBS head coach is highly unlikely to voluntarily quit his job to take a coordinator position, regardless of the prestige of the destination school. It isn't impossible, but name me one instance where a Div I/FBS head coach QUIT to take a coordinator position at another Div I/FBS school.

The facts are that this game allowed in its logic to have head coaches leave schools to become coordinators without being fired. Additionally, in the reason for leaving it said better job most of the time I witnessed it. So I ask, is the offensive coordinator position at Ohio State, better than the head coach position at Wyoming? Keep in mind, Wyoming ponied up around $850,000 base salary, with over $250,000 possible in bonuses for Christensen. Money isn't everything, anyone who has worked in the real world knows that with greater responsibility comes greater satisfaction and stress in your career. Most if not all coaches lust for power and control, and the thought of taking your marching orders from someone else once you have reached the pinnacle must feel like total defeat.

Any head coach who voluntarily walks away from a team: school, players, athletic director, fans, and staff does irreparable damage to his integrity and reputation. Bottom line is he quit to take less responsibility, thus proving that he is incapable of performing the job at the level that is required. How would you feel if several years later your favorite school hires this guy after he has clearly demonstrated that he can't handle the stresses of being a head coach. I wouldn't want him coaching my team, and I certainly would not let my son play for him.

Losing games at a lower prestige school does not always lead to getting fired. Sometimes coaches move up see Gene Chizik (5-19 @ Iowa State before Auburn), Lou Holtz (13-20 @ W&M before NC State, 10-12 @ Minnesota before Notre Dame). The point is that getting your teeth kicked in is good for you every once in a while, it's how you handle the adversity and how you respond that makes you. Running away with your tail tucked between your legs shows you're weak, and that you have no place leading men.

Unfortunately, until the carousel makes itself back into the focus of the development team, we will have to use our imaginations to devise some explanation for why whacked things keep happening in our dynasties. Why we don't get promoted. Why our alma mater won't hire us. Why we got fired for taking Minnesota to four consecutive bowls, and two 10-win seasons. Why as a Air Raid coordinator/coach I have goals for rushing yards and TDs.

But at least we got the new heisman mode everyone asked for!!!

Sigh...

[DariusLock]

I meant like if the head coach at Ole Miss does well he gets hired at a bigger school. That didn't really ever happen.

Hey, let's leave Ole Miss out of this.... ;)

[volstopfan14]

What I've noticed is that most of the head coaches that go to a coordinator job are coaches without a contract. For example, in one of my recent dynasties Houston Nutt was in his last year of his contract at Ole Miss. Ole Miss had a winning season and should have brought Nutt back. However, in the carousel the Texas OC position came up before the Ole Miss HC spot so Nutt took the OC job at Texas. This seems to be causing the problems as sucsessful head coaches are without a contract and before they can sign an extension a bigger school offers a coordinator position. I think if they adjusted it so ALL the HC jobs came first in the carousel then it would fix this problem.

[JeffHCross]

IMO, all HC jobs should come before OC/DC jobs. Very few HC candidates would prefer a OC/DC job to a low-level HC job (there are some that would). And OC/DCs rising up to the HC rank would make for more openings at the OC/DC level. Right now there's no rhyme or reason to the carousel, so HC jobs first would make a ton of sense.

[baseballplyrmvp]

IMO, all HC jobs should come before OC/DC jobs. Very few HC candidates would prefer a OC/DC job to a low-level HC job (there are some that would). And OC/DCs rising up to the HC rank would make for more openings at the OC/DC level. Right now there's no rhyme or reason to the carousel, so HC jobs first would make a ton of sense.

:+1:

[Geauxlden]

IMO, all HC jobs should come before OC/DC jobs. Very few HC candidates would prefer a OC/DC job to a low-level HC job (there are some that would). And OC/DCs rising up to the HC rank would make for more openings at the OC/DC level. Right now there's no rhyme or reason to the carousel, so HC jobs first would make a ton of sense.

I just wonder if this is one of those things that could be tuned. To me the carousel just needs some tweaking, not a total overhaul.

[NaptownMVP]

Oh snap. What if Connected Careers is the ability to have coaches go from pros to college (Madden to NCAA), and vise versa? So you start a dynasty, then can eventually work to be the head coach in the NFL. And if you flunk out, you can come back to NCAA and continue your coaching career there?

So it starts with adding coaching carousel to Madden. Each year you can export your coach data just like draft classes. Then you can insert yourself into the Madden CC and end up being a coordinator or head coach up in the NFL.

Hmmmmmm...