Open Letter from “A Dying Vine”

[Roy38]

For what it's worth...

Open Letter from “A Dying Vine”


In the wake of Patch #2 for NCAA 12, the moderating staff and community at Utopia wish to express our displeasure and frustration in an open letter to EA and the so called “Game Changers” and “Community Sites.” EA’s NCAA football series served as the catalyst for this site in 2003, and though the Utopia community has evolved to the point that it is no longer centered on EA’s game, we still have a common wish for a quality college football video game. This franchise was once unanimously recognized as one of the most enjoyable and innovative sports games on the market, but has now fallen to such depths that virtually everywhere you look, more and more people on forums all across the internet are expressing extreme frustration and displeasure with both the game and the company that makes it. We see three obvious factors that have contributed to the environment that allows such an abject failure of a video game to be released (with good reviews, no less); exclusivity limiting competition, EA’s patching methodology, and the “Game Changers” marketing scheme which helps to fracture the community and marginalize legitimate concerns about the game.

Problems caused by exclusivity:


Due to the fact that EA has purchased the exclusive rights to the NFL and NCAA football games, they have effectively pushed out all competition from football gaming. This means that they can release bug-filled games without the risk of losing customers who would buy a more polished football game if one were available. One need look no further than the recent failure of EA’s basketball game to see the effect of competition on sub-par and bug filled games. The Madden and NCAA series have been plagued with bugs similar to those that caused NBA Live to be shelved, but without competition the games will continue to be developed with as little effort as possible. The results of the lack of competition speak for themselves. The NCAA series has devolved to the point that gamers can expect even the heavily marketed new features to be completely non-functioning at launch.

For instance, NCAA ’09 touted a new roster share feature that was supposed to allow people to create custom rosters and easily share them with their friends. Unfortunately, the roster editor feature of the game contained a glitch so that once a certain number of players were edited, teams started completely disappearing from the game. On top of that, “Wide Open Gameplay” (the tagline for that year) translated into “No Defense At All”, and the game quickly turned into a complete joke as it was nearly impossible to stop anybody on defense. On NCAA ’10, the game was released with sliders that did not work (i.e. they had no impact on gameplay at all), with rosters that were clearly flawed, and with a new “run commit” feature that was so overpowered it virtually destroyed any gameplay balance (particularly for online play). NCAA 11 touted the new "locomotion system, which effectively broke zone defense, and new web based dynasty interfaces like the "Dynasty Wire," which turned out to be incredibly buggy (frequently crashed or displayed the wrong information) and is still listed as "Beta" on the website.

This year, one of the most heavily marketed new features in NCAA12 was custom playbooks, something Utopians have been asking for since the feature was dropped with the move to next-gen systems. As many have come to expect from EA, the custom playbooks feature was completely broken at launch. It contained a glitch which would cause the playcall screen to go blank and would result in players standing around in a huddle over the football rather than lining up in the correct formation. In addition to the custom playbook glitch, the new custom conferences feature was also broken at launch, containing massive scheduling errors that rendered it unusable. In addition to problems with new features, there were also numerous instability problems that caused the game to freeze or crash, as well as several glitches that affected online dynasty mode, such as dynasties not being able to be advanced properly and wins not being correctly recorded. At this point, the game is so bug filled that you are lucky to finish a game without a crash or disconnection. Even if you do finish the game, the result may have been recorded incorrectly, making your efforts futile. It is like clockwork; every new feature will be completely broken at launch and features that worked in the past will have new and crippling bugs.

We acknowledge that all video games are released with some bugs, but we feel that the lack of competition due to exclusivity has allowed EA to release football games that have more numerous and game-killing bugs than any other title. NCAA12 is the least stable console game that we have ever played. If EA had true competition in the football gaming world, they would be forced to either shelve the game, like NBA Live, or go back to the drawing board and dedicate more resources to releasing a quality game, like the FIFA series.

Problems Caused by EA’s Patching Methodology:


In general, the ability to patch games has been both a blessing and a curse for gamers. While a good patch can save a game that would be otherwise derailed by a small bug, it also allows developers to release games that are basically unfinished, counting on patches to tie up all the loose ends. Nowhere is this practice more prevalent than in sports games, with their rushed yearly development cycle.

With the NCAA series, EA manages to take the “release an incomplete game and patch it” model to an incredible new low. Not only do they release obviously unfinished games, but in an effort to patch problems, they introduce new and bigger problems. For instance, last year EA released a patch that was supposed to address some problems with defensive AI and overpowered man to man coverage, and it instead resulted in a new glitch were the QB could pump fake backwards (towards his own goal line), and cause all of the defenders to immediately abandon their assignments and run towards the line of scrimmage.

While there is a long, well documented history of these issues, NCAA12 has taken things to a completely different level. This year, after waiting for nearly two months, EA released a patch that was supposed to correct some of the problems with custom playbooks, online dynasties and system stability. Producer Ben Haumiller closed his blog about the title 2 update with "Thank you again for your patience for the arrival of this second Title Update. I trust you will find that it has been well worth the wait." To put it bluntly, Ben, It was not “worth the wait.” The patch not only failed to fix the majority of the problems it claimed to fix, but it also caused new problems that affected the no-huddle (a prominent feature for NCAA 11) , completely removed some formations from the game, and caused a host of new issues with the few custom playbooks and online dynasties that had the good fortune to work before the patch. Not only did EA release an extremely flawed product for sale at retail in July, but it took almost 2 months to release a patch, and the patch turned out to cause numerous new problems. At this point, it is obvious that the development team for NCAA football cannot even patch their own game without introducing a cornucopia of new glitches and bugs.

Problems caused by EA hijacking “The Community.”


Over the past few years EA has gone to great lengths to improve their faltering reputation with “The NCAA Community.” Whether it came in the form of sending EA representatives to forums, the “Community Leaders” program, or the Game Changers” program; EA has shown that they value having a positive image in “The NCAA Community.” While this all sounds great, we find their efforts to be entirely disingenuous.

Before they even try to reach out to “The NCAA Community,” EA attempts to define “The NCAA Community” in a way that eliminates those who are openly critical of their product. For instance, Utopia is notably absent from EA’s list of “Community Sites,” despite the fact that we are the largest NCAA specific community. The only interaction we've had with EA this year was a Cease and Desist letter in response to our April Fool's prank, proving that they not only read the site, but they also did not find our prank nearly as funny as we did (in retrospect, our April Fools descriptions of the game were actually far more accurate than the glowing reviews found on other sites). We acknowledge that EA attempts to avoid interaction with us because we are uncouth, drunk, and/or overly hostile; but that doesn’t mean we aren’t part of the community!

We also aren't the only ones to be excluded from EA's community program. Several other critical community members, including those who belong to TheSimStandard YouTube group (many of whom have provided incredibly detailed documentation to show problems with the game and ways to solve them) are also shunned by EA. This, despite the fact that they reach far more people than many of the "Community" sites that are included. For example, videos uploaded by TheSimStandard channel contributors have combined for a total of 713,955 views and they have well over 20,000 subscribers, while several of the sites that are included in the program appear to reach fewer than 100 members and are rarely updated with new NCAA related content. The simple fact is that EA has systematically worked to prevent anybody who is openly critical of their game from receiving any official recognition for their efforts. Instead, they choose to define "The community" as those sites, regardless of size/exposure, who will toe the EA company line.

The “Game Changers” program, much like the “Community Leaders” program before it, is a complete farce. As much as EA talks about incorporating community feedback into the game, it is increasingly evident that EA does nothing of the sort, and these programs are simply an extension of EA’s marketing strategy. Simply put, we do not see any substantial in-game results from the “Game Changers” program, but we do consistently see a ton of pre-release hype along with glowing reviews. To be fair, we do not fault the “Game Changers” in this. We truly believe that most of them have the best intentions and that they have put in a lot of work attempting to make this a better game. The problem lies entirely in the fact that EA simply can’t (or won’t) make most of the changes suggested by the “Game Changers.” The game engine itself is so archaic, bug-filled, and ad-hoc at this point that most of the common and recurring issues cannot be solved without a significant commitment of resources from EA, which is a commitment they won’t make. Instead, EA will take input from the game changers and promise grandiose changes like “Custom Playbooks” and “Pattern Matching Coverage,” while the actual implementation of those "features" will be nothing but ham-fisted tweaks to an aging game.

Beyond being simply ineffective, we believe that the “Game Changers” and other EA sponsored “Community” programs fracture the true gaming community and create a divisive environment that allows EA to release such buggy games without the proper amount of community outcry. This is due to the fact that EA places the “Game Changers” in the unenviable position of answering to angry gamers for all of EA’s fumbles. These “Game Changers” serve as the only link between the average frustrated gamer and the NCAA football developers. They become de-facto customer service representatives, without the paycheck. The frustrated gamers and the frustrated “Game Changers,” who now must put up with misguided personal attacks, end up divided. Instead of directing the frustrations and anger at the proper target, the community bickers between themselves.

We are therefore extending an olive branch to the "Game Changers." We don’t hate you, we just lash out in frustration because EA has forced you to play customer service representative for a terrible product. We even apologize for directing our anger and frustrations at you, when EA is clearly the culprit. Please join us in calling EA out for the incredible levels of failure that are present in NCAA12 and Patch #2.

Signed-
The Utopia moderating staff and frustrated NCAA gamers elsewhere

P.S. We would send this olive branch more directly, but you banned us.

[JBHuskers]

No need for that "Open Letter" to be posted over here. We all know better and we all know the truth. Most of that is just a bunch of BS based on a lot of hard evidence of past posts, and etc.

[mnguy]

No need for that "Open Letter" to be posted over here.

May I ask why not? It is an open letter to the NCAA community, is it not? Is this not part of the NCAA community?

[JBHuskers]

May I ask why not? It is an open letter to the NCAA community, is it not? Is this not part of the NCAA community?

It's complete BS considering the source. End of story.

[mnguy]

It's complete BS considering the source. End of story.

So now Gamechangers have the power to speak for a whole community, huh? No wonder you guys are viewed as a joke over there...at least there everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[JBHuskers]

So now Gamechangers have the power to speak for a whole community, huh? No wonder you guys are viewed as a joke over there...at least there everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

You're mistaking poor jokes and complete blind hate for reality. Again just look at the source and what that source has posted previously. Then it will maybe make sense.

[oweb26]

I was wondering how long it would take for that open letter to make its way here. While I agree with JB, I do see where MNguy is coming from, its not my site so its not my rules.

I do think the whole open letter thing is a waste of time though.

[mnguy]

Whatever. I don't think that Game Changers should be ignoring a legitimate complaint. I agree that there is some finger pointing in there, but the exclusivity and patching sections have a lot of stuff that we all know is true. What do you have against working together to get this shit fixed? I can't say i'm surprised the game sucks when the "community members" closest to them decide to cover up legitimate problems with the game.

[JBHuskers]

Exactly we all know the game is fucked up right now. We are absoultely doing our best to get every problem that has come up with the first patch and now the second patch to EA. With Steelerfan's OD that is still messed up, we are still testing and trying things out to try to figure out the root cause of the entire issue. As many people would like to think, we are not sugar coating, we are not ignoring issues, we are fully aware. The game is still fun and playable for most people, but there are some very annoying things that are broken right now. Like I said before I'm in a few OD's that are going just fine, and I can still play the games. Some people don't want to play with the current issues, and that is fine, and I agree with their frustration. We all agree this is frustrating, but in the end we also know certain people are in it to make it better for everyone. We aren't happy with the way things have played out, and some changes definitely need to be made so this never happens again.

[mnguy]

Exactly we all know the game is fucked up right now. We are absoultely doing our best to get every problem that has come up with the first patch and now the second patch to EA. With Steelerfan's OD that is still messed up, we are still testing and trying things out to try to figure out the root cause of the entire issue. As many people would like to think, we are not sugar coating, we are not ignoring issues, we are fully aware. The game is still fun and playable for most people, but there are some very annoying things that are broken right now. Like I said before I'm in a few OD's that are going just fine, and I can still play the games. Some people don't want to play with the current issues, and that is fine, and I agree with their frustration. We all agree this is frustrating, but in the end we also know certain people are in it to make it better for everyone. We aren't happy with the way things have played out, and some changes definitely need to be made so this never happens again.

Then why was the letter deleted? It seems like your agreeing with the problems mentioned, but then deleted it anyways.

[JBHuskers]

Then why was the letter deleted? It seems like your agreeing with the problems mentioned, but then deleted it anyways.

Again, consider the source. And the backhanded comments that come from that source.

[mnguy]

Again, consider the source. And the backhanded comments that come from that source.

Well, you could post the areas you agree with and erase the parts you don't. I don't see why your beef with Utopia means the whole thing should be deleted...seems like sour grapes.

[JBHuskers]

Well, you could post the areas you agree with and erase the parts you don't. I don't see why your beef with Utopia means the whole thing should be deleted...seems like sour grapes.

There is just no need for it. Plain and simple. It's clearly not genuine.

[mnguy]

Though I still think your argument is a little fishy, I see that your obviously not changing your view. I don't see how your gonna get anywhere with EA by ignoring the problems, but good luck anyways.

[oweb26]

Yeah that would make things better just cherry pick what you agree with. :smh:
I can see how that would turn out. Probably like this.....:deadhorse:


On a side not JB you are obsessed with Social Media man, look at the accounts you have linked to your post man. Unplug my man.

[gschwendt]

Regardless of the source, I certainly disagree with deleting the letter being posted here or elsewhere. It's a letter I could see myself writing similarly, though not altogether the same since I do have inside perspective. I'll leave it to Chris to later decide what to do with it.

Along the lines of the any relationship between The Gaming Tailgate and Utopia, it's never going to happen, largely due to their response to us from the beginning. I don't know if their intentions at this point are genuine or not, I don't care. They've burned their bridge and I don't think anyone has any interest in rebuilding it for them. Regardless though, when looking solely at the content of the letter itself, I think it has merit, but at the same time it's hard to consider the source and give it very much.

I encourage them to send it to EA and post it where-ever will have it. Posts/letters like that I can support... falsehoods, generalities, personal bashing, etc., I cannot. You can be critical and rely solely on the facts at the same time.

[JBHuskers]

Though I still think your argument is a little fishy, I see that your obviously not changing your view. I don't see how your gonna get anywhere with EA by ignoring the problems, but good luck anyways.

See, that's where people are being fed misinformation. We're definitely not ignoring the problems at all.


Yeah that would make things better just cherry pick what you agree with. :smh:
I can see how that would turn out. Probably like this.....:deadhorse:


On a side not JB you are obsessed with Social Media man, look at the accounts you have linked to your post man. Unplug my man.

:D well I don't use G+ much anymore. How bout that?

[oweb26]

Regardless of the source, I certainly disagree with deleting the letter being posted here or elsewhere. It's a letter I could see myself writing similarly, though not altogether the same since I do have inside perspective. I'll leave it to Chris to later decide what to do with it.

Along the lines of the any relationship between The Gaming Tailgate and Utopia, it's never going to happen, largely due to their response to us from the beginning. I don't know if their intentions at this point are genuine or not, I don't care. They've burned their bridge and I don't think anyone has any interest in rebuilding it for them. Regardless though, when looking solely at the content of the letter itself, I think it has merit, but at the same time it's hard to consider the source and give it very much credence.

I encourage them to send it to EA and post it where-ever will have it. Posts/letters like that I can support... falsehoods, generalities, personal bashing, etc., I cannot. You can be critical and rely solely on the facts at the same time.

Well said G.

[JBHuskers]

Regardless of the source, I certainly disagree with deleting the letter being posted here or elsewhere. It's a letter I could see myself writing similarly, though not altogether the same since I do have inside perspective. I'll leave it to Chris to later decide what to do with it.

Along the lines of the any relationship between The Gaming Tailgate and Utopia, it's never going to happen, largely due to their response to us from the beginning. I don't know if their intentions at this point are genuine or not, I don't care. They've burned their bridge and I don't think anyone has any interest in rebuilding it for them. Regardless though, when looking solely at the content of the letter itself, I think it has merit, but at the same time it's hard to consider the source and give it very much.

I encourage them to send it to EA and post it where-ever will have it. Posts/letters like that I can support... falsehoods, generalities, personal bashing, etc., I cannot. You can be critical and rely solely on the facts at the same time.

Chris had already said to delete it by the way.

[mnguy]

Yeah that would make things better just cherry pick what you agree with. :smh:
I can see how that would turn out. Probably like this.....:deadhorse:


On a side not JB you are obsessed with Social Media man, look at the accounts you have linked to your post man. Unplug my man.

Yeah, i don't think it would be a good idea, but I think it would be better than deleting the whole thing.

[mnguy]

See, that's where people are being fed misinformation. We're definitely not ignoring the problems at all.

ok maybe "ignoring" was the wrong word choice. Deleting would be better. Or skirting around the edge...anything I see here that directly holds EA responsible is met with a negative response.

[Bomberwrestler]

I will say this as a long time Utopian. You can slam the source all you want. I know that Utopia went away from NCAA a long time ago, and I know that it made some on this site very unhappy. But if you read the letter for what it is you know its true. This game has more issues than the franchise has ever had, and it isnt close at all. The letter wasnt malicious or directed towards the community or the community reps as a slam. It was a very well stated letter that has merit. Dont censor the letter because you disagree with the source. There are still many Utopians who enjoy the game and want it to be a enjoyable experience. The fact that multiple OD's that have been around for years are no longer active because of these issues speaks to the merit of the letter.

Look past the issues, and how the separation of the two communities went down and see the meaning of the letter. It's meaning is to grab the attention of the community and understand the issues are not getting fixed. Of course they say they are trying to work on it, but when your fixes break the working elements something had to change.

[oweb26]

This is a sticky situation I understand why its not being posted, but in a sense I think it should be posted. Though I do think its quite futile.

[Bomberwrestler]

It may be futile, but not giving it a chance shows your stance. What will it hurt, maybe a few guys dont get a copy of TW or FIFA early. Who cares, this is an issue that has been coming for a long time, and now a stand has been made and its being shot down because of differences in leadership. Not because its not factual but because some grown men got their panties in a twist and cant drop the ego crap.

[JBHuskers]

No, it's more believed that we are sweeping this all under the rug and ignoring the situation, when in essence it's completely the opposite. Our stance is obvious. Deleting the "open letter" has nothing to do with our stance that has always been out in the open.

[JBHuskers]

We have relayed a lot of information in regards to the issues that have come up, but yet people seem to think that we think the game is perfectly fine and we're ignoring everything. That is definitely not the case. There is a difference between the game being perfect and the game being playable. For many people, the game is still playable even with all of the annoying things that have come as a result of both of these patches. Basically the falsehood that we think nothing is wrong is just that...a falsehood. Deleting a post has nothing to do with our stance on the game, and our effort to help fix what is broken.

[Bomberwrestler]

Then why delete it, tell me what isn't factual in the letter? At least offer us that. The letter didn't say that efforts weren't made to fix the issues, it did say that the efforts made things worse. So again I say, what is not truthful in the letter. I know it may be hard for you to admit, but it is a very well written letter and it is factual.

[Deuce]

I will say this as a long time Utopian. You can slam the source all you want. I know that Utopia went away from NCAA a long time ago, and I know that it made some on this site very unhappy. But if you read the letter for what it is you know its true. This game has more issues than the franchise has ever had, and it isnt close at all. The letter wasnt malicious or directed towards the community or the community reps as a slam. It was a very well stated letter that has merit. Dont censor the letter because you disagree with the source. There are still many Utopians who enjoy the game and want it to be a enjoyable experience. The fact that multiple OD's that have been around for years are no longer active because of these issues speaks to the merit of the letter.

Look past the issues, and how the separation of the two communities went down and see the meaning of the letter. It's meaning is to grab the attention of the community and understand the issues are not getting fixed. Of course they say they are trying to work on it, but when your fixes break the working elements something had to change.

I read the letter before it was deleted and thought it was well written and fair...then I read the 'ps' part. It then became a bunch of horseshit. If it was genuine that sentence would have never been typed. That negated everything In my eyes.


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[mnguy]

No, it's more believed that we are sweeping this all under the rug and ignoring the situation, when in essence it's completely the opposite. Our stance is obvious. Deleting the "open letter" has nothing to do with our stance that has always been out in the open.
How can deleting something that agrees with your supposed "stance" have nothing to do with it?:confused: That's nonsense.

[JBHuskers]

How can deleting something that agrees with your supposed "stance" have nothing to do with it?:confused: That's nonsense.

What's nonsense is questioning our stance which has been clear for the 16 months we have existed.

[morsdraconis]

This was exactly what I was afraid of. While I don't care to read the ramblings of someone from Utopia who has a vendetta against EA and can't see straight because of their hatred for them, I think it's quite wrong to squelch the ability to post it here as this is a place to discuss, as a community, the issues with the franchise. I knew, sooner or later, a line was going to be drawn in the sand for this website on how to handle something like that and could possibly enter into the "anything bad is going to be deleted" domain that is one of the main issues with Operation Sports and other forums for this franchise.

[Bomberwrestler]

We have relayed a lot of information in regards to the issues that have come up, but yet people seem to think that we think the game is perfectly fine and we're ignoring everything. That is definitely not the case. There is a difference between the game being perfect and the game being playable. For many people, the game is still playable even with all of the annoying things that have come as a result of both of these patches. Basically the falsehood that we think nothing is wrong is just that...a falsehood. Deleting a post has nothing to do with our stance on the game, and our effort to help fix what is broken.
Yes there is a difference but when did that matter. The game may very well be playable, but it isnt enjoyable. Tell me how fun it is when your OD that goes 20 or more seasons every edition of the game cant be played because the commish cant enter the dynasty. Tell me how fun it is to play a hard fought game only to have the results not count. Not to mention the other issues. The fact that you sit here and say its till playable shows your side. Its a joke to think that this is the kind of attitude is being used when it comes to this game. The game is broken and not certain community members try to stand up and we get squashed because we dont play by EA rules.

You can say what you want about Utopia, but we are the only site that has the balls to stand up and speak our mind. You can say your not ignoring the issues and your not being accused otherwise. But censoring your site, because it may cause some issues is a shame and you know it. You all are grown men and you spend your hard earned money every year on this game, oh wait no you don't...maybe its all starting to make sense now.

Also the PS wasnt a jab. It was factual, the gentlemen who composed the letter are not allowed to post over here and a few other sites. You may ask why, and its clear we dont play by EA's rules and therefore we are not allowed on a lot of the community sites. It may have been poorly worded but it was a very true statement.

[mnguy]

I read the letter before it was deleted and thought it was well written and fair...then I read the 'ps' part. It then became a bunch of horseshit. If it was genuine that sentence would have never been typed. That negated everything In my eyes.

So taking a shot at TGT totally negates all the problems with the game that were addressed? They weren't trying to "rebuild the bridge" they're trying to get the communities on the same page to get EA to get their game up to par. It's like work, you don't have to like someone to work on a project with them. You know the work has to get done, so you overcome the obstacles to get that job done.

[ram29jackson]

This is a sticky situation I understand why its not being posted, but in a sense I think it should be posted. Though I do think its quite futile.

you balance pretty good on a fence, fall one way or the other would you LOL

the fact of the matter is, the game was at least decent and likeable before the patch( even though a major promise didnt deliver cleanly).. but the company did a very poor job on the patch . And its been enough days to hear what they intend to do,.... if anything ?

LOL I think they made a slight mistake with those 4 shows because now trolls know the names of the people and what they look like..thats a little kidding around guys, not an attack on anyone

[mnguy]

What's nonsense is questioning our stance which has been clear for the 16 months we have existed.

If your stance was truly clear, the letter wouldn't have been deleted in the first place.

[Deuce]

Yep...horseshit. This isn't work. This is a fucking GAME. I don't have to listen to all that hatred over a fucking GAME. If sites want to be taken seriously they should act seriously. Not like 8 yr olds.


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[Bomberwrestler]

If your stance was truly clear, the letter wouldn't have been deleted in the first place.
exactly, if this letter would have been written by a TGT member or another EA "approved" community it would have been welcomed and would have a serious debate going on. But sense it was a Utopia based letter it was deleted. Fact is you can say what you want JB but you know that it was valid, it does nothing but support your "stance".

This is more about ego than it is about the game on this end and you can tell.

[JBHuskers]

So taking a shot at TGT totally negates all the problems with the game that were addressed? They weren't trying to "rebuild the bridge" they're trying to get the communities on the same page to get EA to get their game up to par. It's like work, you don't have to like someone to work on a project with them. You know the work has to get done, so you overcome the obstacles to get that job done.

It's not the shots at us, it's because the writer of that letter makes constant jokes towards Ben and Anthony White as well. Personal attacks really get everyone on the same page to get EA to get their game up to par!!! :fp:

So when someone who posts irresponsible shit like that all the time all of a sudden writes something that has some good points, we're supposed to believe he's being genuine? He's not posting here for a reason; therefore, his posts don't really need to be relayed by other people over here because we truly know many things that source has posted in the past. Like I said, our stance on making this game better has not changed since we started this site. Just take a look around at the various things that we have done and are doing to improve this franchise. Again we are not happy with the problems this game has had, we are not ignoring them, but at the same time at least we're not making irresponsible attacks then trying to become a martyr by coming up with an open letter that is supposed to make us forget the source.

[mnguy]

It's not the shots at us, it's because the writer of that letter makes constant jokes towards Ben and Anthony White as well. Personal attacks really get everyone on the same page to get EA to get their game up to par!!! :fp:

So when someone who posts irresponsible shit like that all the time all of a sudden writes something that has some good points, we're supposed to believe he's being genuine? He's not posting here for a reason; therefore, his posts don't really need to be relayed by other people over here because we truly know many things that source has posted in the past. Like I said, our stance on making this game better has not changed since we started this site. Just take a look around at the various things that we have done and are doing to improve this franchise. Again we are not happy with the problems this game has had, we are not ignoring them, but at the same time at least we're not making irresponsible attacks then trying to become a martyr by coming up with an open letter that is supposed to make us forget the source.

My understanding is that ther term "extending an olive branch" means that you are willing to change. The source is willing to change to get at least some unified force together to get EA to realize the community isn't happy with their product.

[Deuce]

My understanding is that ther term "extending an olive branch" means that you are willing to change. The source is willing to change to get at least some unified force together to get EA to realize the community isn't happy with their product.

Jesus dude. Did you not read the 'ps' part!?? That's not an olive branch...that's the same ol shit branch! :fp:


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[Bomberwrestler]

My understanding is that ther term "extending an olive branch" means that you are willing to change. The source is willing to change to get at least some unified force together to get EA to realize the community isn't happy with their product.
Whats funny is that this letter has been in the making for a while, its not like 1 guy got this idea and wrote it himself. A lot of work was put into it and for it to be shunned is really sad.

[Bomberwrestler]

Jesus dude. Did you not read the 'ps' part!?? That's not an olive branch...that's the same ol shit branch! :fp:


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Did you not read what I said, the guys who wrote it are not allowed to post. Its really simple, should it have been put in the letter? Probably not, but it doesnt make the letter not true. Get over it.

[JBHuskers]

Jesus dude. Did you not read the 'ps' part!?? That's not an olive branch...that's the same ol shit branch! :fp:


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:+1:

[Deuce]

Whats funny is that this letter has been in the making for a while, its not like 1 guy got this idea and wrote it himself. A lot of work was put into it and for it to be shunned is really sad.

The olive branch stuff is a load of crap. If they truly wanted to extend an olive branch they would have contacted CDJ or JB privately.


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[JBHuskers]

Jesus dude. Did you not read the 'ps' part!?? That's not an olive branch...that's the same ol shit branch! :fp:


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If it was an olive branch, those same people wouldn't have been posting complete BS about us on our own site the other day.

[Deuce]

Did you not read what I said, the guys who wrote it are not allowed to post. Its really simple, should it have been put in the letter? Probably not, but it doesnt make the letter not true. Get over it.

Oh ya...you're right. There is no other form of communication except for this site. :fp:


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[Bomberwrestler]

The olive branch stuff is a load of crap. If they truly wanted to extend an olive branch they would have contacted CDJ or JB privately.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhy the hell would they do that, they would just get what the letter got.

[JBHuskers]

The olive branch stuff is a load of crap. If they truly wanted to extend an olive branch they would have contacted CDJ or JB privately.


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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/martyr

[Bomberwrestler]

Oh ya...you're right. There is no other form of communication except for this site. :fp:


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Its painfully obvious where your at, we understand your stance.

[mnguy]

Jesus dude. Did you not read the 'ps' part!?? That's not an olive branch...that's the same ol shit branch! :fp:

personally, i think they are being true about the offer. If you would feel any better if they took it back, I am sure that could happen.:D I find it sad that you're getting hung up on that one line of a letter that makes a lot of good points.

[JBHuskers]

Its painfully obvious where your at, we understand your stance.

And it's completely obvious what your agenda is:


Yeah its a joke, I am trying to be civil but they act like sissies. Anything to get those games early.


Olive branch? :D Deuce is completely right. Same ol' shit.

[Deuce]

Why the hell would they do that, they would just get what the letter got.

Maybe, maybe not...we'll never know b/c they didn't try. They used an open letter with an immature jab at the end. Not the same


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[Deuce]

Its painfully obvious where your at, we understand your stance.

Right back at you brother. :)


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[mnguy]

The olive branch stuff is a load of crap. If they truly wanted to extend an olive branch they would have contacted CDJ or JB privately.


It wasn't a letter to TGT. It was an open letter. It has been posted on OS and other sites. It's not saying everybody be buddy-buddy, just have a somewhat respectable relationship and ty to work together. You're missing the point here.

[Deuce]

personally, i think they are being true about the offer. If you would feel any better if they took it back, I am sure that could happen.:D I find it sad that you're getting hung up on that one line of a letter that makes a lot of good points.

I do think it makes a lot of good points. ...absolutely. But the 'goodwill' is horseshit thus negating a well written letter. Just isn't genuine.


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[mnguy]

Olive branch? :D Deuce is completely right. Same ol' shit.
As he said "I am trying to be civil". An olive branch doesn't mean I automatically like you, it means when I'm talking to your face I'll be civil. That is all.

[Deuce]

It wasn't a letter to TGT. It was an open letter. It has been posted on OS and other sites. It's not saying everybody be buddy-buddy, just have a somewhat respectable relationship and ty to work together. You're missing the point here.

Ok...that's valid. Although i do get the point. But i and I'm guessing most people on this site choose a more positive approach to fixing the game. I don't want to listen to all the anger. I can ignore a few posters over here or ignore the whole site that is Utopia. It's nothing personal. It really isn't. BUT I am going to defend this site b/c I prefer the way things are done over here and don't want them to change.

I want the game to change but not this site. :)


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[mnguy]

Ok...that's valid. Although i do get the point. But i and I'm guessing most people on this site choose a more positive approach to fixing the game. I don't want to listen to all the anger. I can ignore a few posters over here or ignore the whole site that is Utopia. It's nothing personal. It really isn't. BUT I am going to defend this site b/c I prefer the way things are done over here and don't want them to change.

I want the game to change but not this site. :)


And it doesn't have to. I mean, you can't really disagree that if Utopia, TGT, OS etc. all put forward something together to tell EA what the problems are, how to fix them etc. EA would have to take notice.

[oweb26]

you balance pretty good on a fence, fall one way or the other would you LOL

the fact of the matter is, the game was at least decent and likeable before the patch( even though a major promise didnt deliver cleanly).. but the company did a very poor job on the patch . And its been enough days to hear what they intend to do,.... if anything ?

LOL I think they made a slight mistake with those 4 shows because now trolls know the names of the people and what they look like..thats a little kidding around guys, not an attack on anyone


I love sitting on the fence, I realydo get both sides of the argument in an attempt to not make this Utopia I understand not posting, in an attempt to draw attention the the fuck ups by EA, I understand posting. Either way I dont care because as I said its a very futile letter. Since Duece ha posted he has swayed my opinion and now I dont want it posted. LOL


Ok...that's valid. Although i do get the point. But i and I'm guessing most people on this site choose a more positive approach to fixing the game. I don't want to listen to all the anger. I can ignore a few posters over here or ignore the whole site that is Utopia. It's nothing personal. It really isn't. BUT I am going to defend this site b/c I prefer the way things are done over here and don't want them to change.

I want the game to change but not this site. :)


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[Deuce]

And it doesn't have to. I mean, you can't really disagree that if Utopia, TGT, OS etc. all put forward something together to tell EA what the problems are, how to fix them etc. EA would have to take notice.

We aren't doing that? I know TGT is...I can't speak for the other two. I hope OS and Utopia are doing the same things. And I'm sure if they do it in a respectful manner EA will listen. The problem, IMHO, is that EA knows most of the issues but can't fix them w/o screwing up something else. And that's not an insult to the guys working on the game. I'm pretty sure they work their asses off. There in an impossible situation. ...sometimes there is no 'right' answer. I can accept that, others can't. Doesn't make either one of us right or wrong...just different.

If I cant live with the game I won't buy it next year. I happen to love the game and enjoy the hell out of it.

I don't play online
Dont use CP's ...didn't use either when they were working either.


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[jcalv83]

In trying to determine the validity of sentiment found within the letter, I think we're getting off base. Speaking as a long time fan of the series (though this is waning) and a person who frequents multiple NCAA sites, I think it is important for the communities to present a consolidated message to EA Sports and the NCAA prodcers, specifically that they have a product that does not meet our expectations nor even approaches them. While I sometimes snicker at personal attacks and jabs and even make an occasional one, I'd agree that they hold no place within this message of frustration. The whole idea of a united front I'm sure seems obsurd, and even melodramatic, but results speak for themselves...last year's game had a number of flaws, this year's game was much worse, and the second patch has really set me over the edge as a long-time fan of this series. Everytime I go to the website, I feel like EA is laughing in my face as a consumer with the game reviews that they tout. It's like it's a big joke. I realize it's a game, but it's also an exorbitant amount of money that they are making from all of our purchases. Not to mention the fact that they have recently been in the business of "offering" additional perks within the game at an added price. I for one feel like I have not come close to getting my $60 worth, but I realize I don't matter to the people that make this game...maybe even 10, 100, or 1000 people like me won't make a difference, but if we can present a strong message to them, with constructive criticism but also a GUIDED anger or at least clearly frustrated disapointment, maybe we can prompt a change for the better and for ALL of us.

[ram29jackson]

I believe oneback already did his version of an open letter so to speak ?

[jcalv83]

Yes, and that was a great letter, but just one letter. EA can quickly disregard one letter, but they'll have a much tougher time if a significant part of their customer base demonstrates their frustration with an inferior product.

[Bomberwrestler]

Yes, and that was a great letter, but just one letter. EA can quickly disregard one letter, but they'll have a much tougher time if a significant part of their customer base demonstrates their frustration with an inferior product.
Exactly!

[jcalv83]

We aren't doing that? I know TGT is...I can't speak for the other two. I hope OS and Utopia are doing the same things. And I'm sure if they do it in a respectful manner EA will listen. The problem, IMHO, is that EA knows most of the issues but can't fix them w/o screwing up something else. And that's not an insult to the guys working on the game. I'm pretty sure they work their asses off. There in an impossible situation. ...sometimes there is no 'right' answer. I can accept that, others can't. Doesn't make either one of us right or wrong...just different.

If I cant live with the game I won't buy it next year. I happen to love the game and enjoy the hell out of it.

I don't play online
Dont use CP's ...didn't use either when they were working either.


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For me, its not so much accepting or not. It's really just a clear distortion of reality. I could accept them telling me that the problems are beyond what they can fix. What I cannot accept is their producer claiming that the patch was "worth the wait" when clearly that is not the case. Best case scenario is that they are trying to save face and are willing to make completely inaccurate statements. Worst case scenario is that they are oblivious or lazy in their testing of both the game at launch and then their patch. It's not like you have to really dig to find problems and these aren't little nit-picky things. These are glaring blind-you-in-the-face glitches that have been spotted almost immediately by numerous customers playing the game.

[JBHuskers]

For me, its not so much accepting or not. It's really just a clear distortion of reality. I could accept them telling me that the problems are beyond what they can fix. What I cannot accept is their producer claiming that the patch was "worth the wait" when clearly that is not the case. Best case scenario is that they are trying to save face and are willing to make completely inaccurate statements. Worst case scenario is that they are oblivious or lazy in their testing of both the game at launch and then their patch. It's not like you have to really dig to find problems and these aren't little nit-picky things. These are glaring blind-you-in-the-face glitches that have been spotted almost immediately by numerous customers playing the game.

Yeah I'm kinda baffled at what was promised in the 2nd patch, and the end result. Trying to get to the root cause of why this is the case, and I just don't know. My first instinct is horrible QA. I played the game before the first patch quite a bit, and then that patch came a few days before release day and that's when the can of worms started to get opened. Then the door blew wide open after patch #2. I find it rather impossbile that QA coudln't have caught most of these items.

[mnguy]

We aren't doing that? I know TGT is...I can't speak for the other two. I hope OS and Utopia are doing the same things. And I'm sure if they do it in a respectful manner EA will listen. The problem, IMHO, is that EA knows most of the issues but can't fix them w/o screwing up something else. And that's not an insult to the guys working on the game. I'm pretty sure they work their asses off. There in an impossible situation. ...sometimes there is no 'right' answer. I can accept that, others can't. Doesn't make either one of us right or wrong...just different.

If I cant live with the game I won't buy it next year. I happen to love the game and enjoy the hell out of it.

I don't play online
Dont use CP's ...didn't use either when they were working either.


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Together is the key word. EA doesn't seem to be using info and advice from one person or even one community, so getting even more than that seems the next logical step.

[Rudy]

You might as well post that letter as everyone will go over to Utopia and read it anyways. I can understand not posting the PS stuff but the content isn't out of line imo.

I personally think there is a lot of good and truth to that letter. Certainly there is a big rift between the guys over there and the owners of TGT. If another site wrote that letter it would probably have been OK. I did not see any personal attacks at Ben or any other EA guy myself. Ben is the spokesman and he will naturally get more negative feedback which is often not personal. Everyone's view of that letter will also fluctuate based on how happy you are with the series. Opposing viewpoints on things like video games and especially college football get too nasty too quickly imo.

[Oneback]

I believe oneback already did his version of an open letter so to speak ?

Which letter was this?

[Rudy]

Yeah I'm kinda baffled at what was promised in the 2nd patch, and the end result. Trying to get to the root cause of why this is the case, and I just don't know. My first instinct is horrible QA. I played the game before the first patch quite a bit, and then that patch came a few days before release day and that's when the can of worms started to get opened. Then the door blew wide open after patch #2. I find it rather impossbile that QA coudln't have caught most of these items.

To me blaming QA in this case is wrong. QA is used to test bugs, freezing and unique situations imo. When all it takes is someone to play the game and run a no huddle to see this mistake, how was it missed? I would like to think the developers in charge of this stuff would run many tests themselves as well as simply play the game. I would expect the no huddle bug and the custom playbook stuff to be caught by the main guys and not some shmuck in QB. I had the same argument with guys over MLB 2K11. There were NO errors in that game! That's not a QA problem as that should have been caught by the developers and anyone that just played the game. Does nobody play the game after implementing a patch?

[ram29jackson]

Which letter was this?

the communication you posted a few days ago, thats all i'm talking about..in essence, you did express displeasure ie you communicated with an EA guy, so more than one over there knows your thoughts..thats all I mean

[I OU a Beatn]

It's complete BS considering the source. End of story.

Source doesn't matter, it's 100% dead on. It doesn't attack the community members of this site or any other site. The letter correctly places the blame 100% on EA. I realize I'm going to hear the "it takes years to get a football game correct" and you will get no argument there from me. However, whenever they consistently had a MUCH better game on a much older and much dated system than what they have now, it's an obvious problem that needs to be called out.

'07 on 360 was a laughing stock so I'm not even going to go there. '08 had these super human LBs, unbelievably overpowered option(I remember my friends and online opponents running triple option near the end of the half or game and actually scoring consistently LMAO), horrible defensive pursuit, entirely overpowered spectacular catches, laggy online, etc...

'09 had zero pass rush. I mean literally zero. It was 100% offense 100% of the time. '10 had an improved pass rush, but it was still a joke, so virtually all the issues that existed in '09 existed in '10. '11 was a decent improvement, but glaring issues were still prevalent. Pass rush STILL isn't where it should be, pursuit angles are STILL broken, outside runs are STILL overpowered. You can STILL rocket catch. You can STILL do disconnection glitches online. '11 introduced the infamous goon kick which is a guaranteed way to get the ball back on the kick off. When the game first shipped the defenders would run routes ahead of the receiver when in man coverage. Basically, it was completely messed up.

Then '12 comes out hyped up to be the best football game we've ever played. Right out of the box their most important feature, custom playbooks, are broken to the point they're unusable. Zone defense is much improved, but it's much improved because they lowered the trajectory of the ball or ball trajectory has always been messed up and the defense's increased awareness was just now exposing it - either way, it's a problem. Outside runs are STILL overpowered(5 years in a row for you guys counting) because the defensive pursuit STILL sucks(5 years in a row for that, too). The disconnection glitches and goon kick, which existed the previous year and were emailed to EA by multiple members of the community, are STILL in the game, apparently simply ignored by EA as not big enough problems to fix. Oh, did I mention you can STILL rocket catch?

I'm fine with taking time to get a game corrected, but where the hell is the improvement? Every time they "improve" something, they break something else. There's at least 20 underlying issues with the game that have been blatantly wrong ever since the first game this generation came out and they STILL wont fix them. A perfect example is the pass rush, it's still absolutely horrible. I realize some of you are fine with the game, which is fine. Some people absolutely love Terminator Salvation, so you're obviously going to have people that are content with the game having glitches. For myself and everyone else who wants a REALISTIC experience, we're not fine with it. There is not a single lie in that letter and as I said, it's dead on. If it was calling community sites out, that's one thing, but it's not. The letter is placing the blame entirely upon EA, which is exactly where it belongs.

[oweb26]

After all this my point still stands will the letter solve anything........????

[ram29jackson]

After all this my point still stands will the letter solve anything........????

nope, its up to EA if they feel they have already made enough profit from one game or if they want to patch again to increase sales before Christmas ?

[Rudy]

After all this my point still stands will the letter solve anything........????

Probably not. If it gains enough support it could but EA will look at sales and Metacritic scores more than anything.

[bdoughty]

After reading the last couple pages I thought I would add a little reality into the picture.

I wake up at 11:30 today with my pulse skipping, racing and averaging over 160bpm. Had to call an ambulance as I was too dizzy to drive and spent 4 hours in the ER getting meds thrown down an IV to bring my pulse back down and to slow the fibrillation. So now I have Atrial Fibrillation to go along with one of the rare diseases, Wegener's granulomatosis. Not to mention the 10 other medical conditions I have.

Now I am not trying to seek pity but some of you dudes need to WAKE THE FUCK UP and realize it is a game. There is more to life than the GAME. Pages ago I wasted 30 minutes of my life trying to explaining why there is no quick fix to getting everything in the game and no matter how much logic or reasoning is used there will always be people that think it is as easy as turning a wrench.

Forum pissing matches are a waste of time. You utopia guys do what you do and the TGT guys will do what they do.

Stop worrying about Utopia says
Stop bashing OS

Just stick to your respective forum(s) and discuss the game amongst people that you enjoy discussing it with.

Life is simply to short for this shit.

[Deuce]

Reality sucks man. Take care of yourself!


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[bdoughty]

Yeah well that Sooner Born, Sooner Bred, Sooner Dead thing came a little too close for comfort. :P

[Deuce]

Yeah well that Sooner Born, Sooner Bred, Sooner Dead thing came a little too close for comfort. :P

No shit man...that's scary stuff.

Btw...how bad you think we'll beat FSU? I think by at least 10.


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[psusnoop]

Yeah well that Sooner Born, Sooner Bred, Sooner Dead thing came a little too close for comfort. :P

No shit, take care of yourself man. Life to short

[steelerfan]

Hate to hear that bdoughty. Take care, man.

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[bdoughty]

No shit man...that's scary stuff.

Btw...how bad you think we'll beat FSU? I think by at least 10.


I am afraid to watch OU on the road, they make me panicky and the last thing I need is to be panicky. I just hope they win.

Really guys I appreciate the sympathy but it was not the point of my post. I have been through these forum wars and they are a waste of time. That is why I hate seeing the OS bashing and even giving one second of worry into what this Utopia place (Never even heard of it till I started posting here).

[Oneback]

I am afraid to watch OU on the road, they make me panicky and the last thing I need is to be panicky. I just hope they win.

Really guys I appreciate the sympathy but it was not the point of my post. I have been through these forum wars and they are a waste of time. That is why I hate seeing the OS bashing and even giving one second of worry into what this Utopia place (Never even heard of it till I started posting here).

This isn't a forum war. It's well known TGT's feelings towards Utopia, it's also well known Utopia's feelings towards EA which gets mis-directed to the powers that be here at TGT, the purpose of the letter was to join all of the communities together to present a common voice.

I don't agree with Utopia's personal shots at EA team members/dev's as it is in poor taste, I also don't agree with Utopia's shots at TGT powers. However, the instrument that forged the wedge between Utopia and the powers now here at TGT were problems with the game. Utopia took one route, while TGT took another to solve these problems and now we are where we are.

This isn't a TGT/Utopia issue, this is a NCAA Community issue and that is what the letter addresses. At some point everyone needs to work together (EA, TGT, Utopia, OS, etc) to get these problems taken care of, right now everyone is working in separate directions, it's time to get everyone pointed in a direction that is both constructive and mutually beneficial for everyone involved and to stop wasting all the time and energy it takes to sling mud in everyone else's direction.

We all want the same thing and that's the best most realistic game that delivers year round replay value with little to no bugs that require work around's that require hours of valuable time that could be better used by enjoying the game.

[I OU a Beatn]

This isn't a TGT/Utopia issue, this is a NCAA Community issue and that is what the letter addresses. At some point everyone needs to work together (EA, TGT, Utopia, OS, etc) to get these problems taken care of, right now everyone is working in separate directions, it's time to get everyone pointed in a direction that is both constructive and mutually beneficial for everyone involved and to stop wasting all the time and energy it takes to sling mud in everyone else's direction.

We all want the same thing and that's the best most realistic game that delivers year round replay value with little to no bugs that require work around's that require hours of valuable time that could be better used by enjoying the game.

Bingo.

[morsdraconis]

Well, it seems to me that it's entirely a few people that shall remain nameless at Utopia's fault that the community is split. When you have guys bitching about a game that they haven't even touched since the 07 version (when they are bitching about the 09 and 10 versions of the game), something is wrong with that picture. I was there when it all went down (though, obviously, don't know the behind the scenes stuff all that well) and I immediately jumped ship to here, where conversations about the game can be had without three paragraph rants about EA that don't even apply anymore.

There's no "working together" on this. There's no "Community" on this. There's EA making a video game and us buying it. Beyond that and the small amount of input that the Game Changers and Community Guys are able to bring forth through community events, you're absolutely delusional if you think anything can really come from any of this. We are but a fraction of their demographic. They piss us off, so what? They have so many casual fans buying the game now for the "back of the box" features, it's ridiculous.

[I OU a Beatn]

There's no "working together" on this. There's no "Community" on this. There's EA making a video game and us buying it. Beyond that and the small amount of input that the Game Changers and Community Guys are able to bring forth through community events, you're absolutely delusional if you think anything can really come from any of this. We are but a fraction of their demographic. They piss us off, so what? They have so many casual fans buying the game now for the "back of the box" features, it's ridiculous.

Not quite. Their sales have suffered over the past several years. That's where we are going to eventually get their attention. The 360 version sold more copies opening week clear back in '08 then it did this year, which is laughable considering the massive growth of users the 360 has captured. The PS3 version has marginally improved, but not nearly the amount they should have with all the new PS3 users.

[Pig Bomb]

Well, it seems to me that it's entirely a few people that shall remain nameless at Utopia's fault that the community is split. When you have guys bitching about a game that they haven't even touched since the 07 version (when they are bitching about the 09 and 10 versions of the game), something is wrong with that picture. I was there when it all went down (though, obviously, don't know the behind the scenes stuff all that well) and I immediately jumped ship to here, where conversations about the game can be had without three paragraph rants about EA that don't even apply anymore.

There's no "working together" on this. There's no "Community" on this. There's EA making a video game and us buying it. Beyond that and the small amount of input that the Game Changers and Community Guys are able to bring forth through community events, you're absolutely delusional if you think anything can really come from any of this. We are but a fraction of their demographic. They piss us off, so what? They have so many casual fans buying the game now for the "back of the box" features, it's ridiculous.

in rarely agree with morsdraconis, but this post is spot on

i think it's funny that Utopia wants a voice when practically none of the mods/leaders/owners of the site have even played the game in several years..thats why i left

and mors is right...we [hardcore message board types] are a huge minority! if we weren't ....this would be one kick ass sim football game casual gamers wouldn't touch!

[Oneback]

When you have guys bitching about a game that they haven't even touched since the 07 version (when they are bitching about the 09 and 10 versions of the game), something is wrong with that picture.

From those that have come forward and stated they co-authored the letter they own NCAA 12 and several previous versions prior. While I do agree there are a lot of people on Utopia that do not own the game, there are a large number that do and have purchased the game every year since 2003, if not longer than that.

Either way, can you dispute the problems they have presented?

[Larry Horse]

To try and set the record straight everyone that was part of the team writing this letter, purchased the game. They have invested a lot of time into trying to get it to work correctly and run ODs. I did say "purchased", spent their $60 like regular customers not hoping to get a free copy in the mail. Every mod at Utopia has owned the game in the last couple of years and 90% of them bought it this year. Not to mention the regular posters on TGT, Utopia and OS that also included their feedback in this project.

If you want to keep dismissing this letter and Utopia because of the rumor that nobody plays the game, I don't know what to tell you but your information is wrong.

[Roy38]

But yet other sites say we censor people :D :D :D :D :D

Well, that didn't last long. Can we consider this exhibit "A"?

[Deuce]

I did say "purchased", spent their $60 like regular customers not hoping to get a free copy in the mail. Every mod at Utopia has owned the game in the last couple of years and 90% of them bought it this year.

:fp: ...just can't help yourself.


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[JeffHCross]

I had a lot to say about this topic, but let's be honest ...

Forum pissing matches are a waste of time. You utopia guys do what you do and the TGT guys will do what they do.

Stop worrying about Utopia says
Stop bashing OS

Just stick to your respective forum(s) and discuss the game amongst people that you enjoy discussing it with.

Life is simply to short for this shit.
Couldn't have said it better.

[Roy38]

Exactly we all know the game is fucked up right now. We are absoultely doing our best to get every problem that has come up with the first patch and now the second patch to EA. With Steelerfan's OD that is still messed up, we are still testing and trying things out to try to figure out the root cause of the entire issue. As many people would like to think, we are not sugar coating, we are not ignoring issues, we are fully aware. The game is still fun and playable for most people, but there are some very annoying things that are broken right now. Like I said before I'm in a few OD's that are going just fine, and I can still play the games. Some people don't want to play with the current issues, and that is fine, and I agree with their frustration. We all agree this is frustrating, but in the end we also know certain people are in it to make it better for everyone. We aren't happy with the way things have played out, and some changes definitely need to be made so this never happens again.

I'm glad you've stressed your opinion, but I fail to understand the part I outlined in bold. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't you doing EA's job for them - for free (or at least minimally reimbursed)? This goes back to my original statement (and as the open letter pointed out) on the perception of the Game Changers program and Community Day events and their relationship with EA. It would appear you're doing all the heavy lifting while EA does...what?

[Roy38]

Regardless of the source, I certainly disagree with deleting the letter being posted here or elsewhere. It's a letter I could see myself writing similarly, though not altogether the same since I do have inside perspective. I'll leave it to Chris to later decide what to do with it.

Along the lines of the any relationship between The Gaming Tailgate and Utopia, it's never going to happen, largely due to their response to us from the beginning. I don't know if their intentions at this point are genuine or not, I don't care. They've burned their bridge and I don't think anyone has any interest in rebuilding it for them. Regardless though, when looking solely at the content of the letter itself, I think it has merit, but at the same time it's hard to consider the source and give it very much.

I encourage them to send it to EA and post it where-ever will have it. Posts/letters like that I can support... falsehoods, generalities, personal bashing, etc., I cannot. You can be critical and rely solely on the facts at the same time.

I would certainly appreciate your response (and cdj's) dating back to my original post. I've been patiently waiting.

[JeffHCross]

I'm glad you've stressed your opinion, but I fail to understand the part I outlined in bold. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't you doing EA's job for them - for free (or at least minimally reimbursed)?Roy, I'm failing to understand something to. I don't want to say "what is your agenda", because I think that phrase would have a misleading connotation. And I don't want to say "who cares", because it's obvious that you care, and that would also have a misleading connotation. So bear with me, because I think you know what I'm trying to get at -- but what are you wanting to see changed about this? At first, I thought you wanted to see the relationship between Game Changers and EA explained. I would think that's been done by now. Then I thought you might want to see TGT completely disassociate itself from EA ... but you made some posts that suggested that wasn't the point. So now, I'm simply not sure. I think you may be looking for some of the same answers that I, myself, am trying to figure out. So if it's simply pure curiosity, and wanting to get your questions answered, I'm all for that. But otherwise ... what are you looking for here?

[cdj]

Regardless of the source, I certainly disagree with deleting the letter being posted here or elsewhere. It's a letter I could see myself writing similarly, though not altogether the same since I do have inside perspective. I'll leave it to Chris to later decide what to do with it.

Along the lines of the any relationship between The Gaming Tailgate and Utopia, it's never going to happen, largely due to their response to us from the beginning. I don't know if their intentions at this point are genuine or not, I don't care. They've burned their bridge and I don't think anyone has any interest in rebuilding it for them. Regardless though, when looking solely at the content of the letter itself, I think it has merit, but at the same time it's hard to consider the source and give it very much.

I encourage them to send it to EA and post it where-ever will have it. Posts/letters like that I can support... falsehoods, generalities, personal bashing, etc., I cannot. You can be critical and rely solely on the facts at the same time.

After finally seeing the 'branch' in it's entirety, I agree with your take 100%. The letter has been undeleted but despite very valid points is tough to take completely serious given attacks by some of their site members against TGT and community members in the past.

First off, feedback regarding the EA Game Changers program should be sent to Community Manager Justin Dewiel. (Twitter: @JDewiel)

There are a lot of merits in the letter and I'd say a majority of the online NCAA Football community has the same general feelings, especially spiking with the recent issues and frustrations with Patch #2.

Feedback to game devs regarding the license exclusivity will go nowhere. It's people much higher in the food chain and pay scale at EA who make those calls including the NCAA. There has been a lot of community feedback among all sites regarding game issues over the years in various forms such as polls, wish list tourneys, podcasts, threads, posts, articles, but also some less than constructive. Some very valid points (across all sites) are tough to take seriously when laced with insults towards other community members and/or sites or personal attacks on developers. Community sites will fail to be on the exact same page until the community is able to avoid that type of behavior in all feedback and discussion. Get to the root of the issue without criticizing others.


Also, one user was banned in this thread but that was for creating a duplicate account after being banned here last year for creating a fake/joke account. Thought I would throw that out to avoid the possibility of more misinformation being bandied about. Regarding people being banned here in the past - they were not banned for opinions, but for attacks on this site and/or community members or developers.

[souljahbill]

What's the big deal about this "open letter?" It's not like the NCAA team is sitting in their money bins, laughing that they "suckered us" again. I don't know the development team but I'm sure everyone on that time put their heart into the game to make it the best it could be. This year, they didn't meet the community's high (and sometimes unrealistic) expectations. Ok. I'm sure they're aware of it, disappointed by it, and want to do right by their faithful customers. I'm not ready to jump down EA's throat because the game isn't the best thing since punanny. It happens. Everyone fails once and awhile and before you start saying how bad every previous version was, let me say that I thoroughly enjoyed '10 and '11 so they weren't failures in my eyes at all. Whether the note is posted or not is irrelevant in my eyes. The development team knows what's wrong with their game. We don't need to harp on it post after post, day after day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Soonerfan09]

After reading the last couple pages I thought I would add a little reality into the picture.

I wake up at 11:30 today with my pulse skipping, racing and averaging over 160bpm. Had to call an ambulance as I was too dizzy to drive and spent 4 hours in the ER getting meds thrown down an IV to bring my pulse back down and to slow the fibrillation. So now I have Atrial Fibrillation to go along with one of the rare diseases, Wegener's granulomatosis. Not to mention the 10 other medical conditions I have.

Now I am not trying to seek pity but some of you dudes need to WAKE THE FUCK UP and realize it is a game. There is more to life than the GAME. Pages ago I wasted 30 minutes of my life trying to explaining why there is no quick fix to getting everything in the game and no matter how much logic or reasoning is used there will always be people that think it is as easy as turning a wrench.

Forum pissing matches are a waste of time. You utopia guys do what you do and the TGT guys will do what they do.

Stop worrying about Utopia says
Stop bashing OS

Just stick to your respective forum(s) and discuss the game amongst people that you enjoy discussing it with.

Life is simply to short for this shit.

You're right, it is just a game. But you're a member of a website that is devoted to that game, and have over 400 posts...

No one is looking for a pissing match between sites. We all want a good game, and quite frankly, what we have now is not a good game. Having all the sites voice their displeasure for what has happened with the game might not help anything...but it surely can't hurt anything either...can it?

[baseballplyrmvp]

i dont get the point of the last paragraph. they want to "extend an olive branch" to the game changers, but only after calling the GC's a joke and as one of the 3 reasons (in utopia's eyes) why there are so many frustrated gamers out there. i dont buy the intent of wanting to make ammends and start over with the GC's with a clean slate, so to speak.... i see this letter as an attempt to get back into the GC program just so they can make certain their complaints and rants are heard by ea. if it was a genuine attempt to start over, there wouldnt have been a need to call the GC's a joke and say the game is a failure because of their interaction.

another question, why would ea even attempt to reach out to utopia for a community event, just to hear that guy bitch, moan, complain, and cry about how a certain aspect is done within the game?

[bdoughty]

You're right, it is just a game. But you're a member of a website that is devoted to that game, and have over 400 posts...

No one is looking for a pissing match between sites. We all want a good game, and quite frankly, what we have now is not a good game. Having all the sites voice their displeasure for what has happened with the game might not help anything...but it surely can't hurt anything either...can it?

And I bet 2/3rds of those posts are not even in the NCAA Forums. I have voiced displeasure with certain aspects of the game. Voicing displeasure is one thing. Personal attacks toward some of the guys at Tiburon and the constant Walmart-esque behavior of the little boy crying because momma only got him one moon pie when he wanted two, is not going to help a damn thing.

[Soonerfan09]

And I bet 2/3rds of those posts are not even in the NCAA Forums. I have voiced displeasure with certain aspects of the game. Voicing displeasure is one thing. Personal attacks toward some of the guys at Tiburon and the constant Walmart-esque behavior of the little boy crying because momma only got him one moon pie when he wanted two, is not going to help a damn thing.
I must have missed all those in the letter, care to point them out?

[bdoughty]

I must have missed all those in the letter, care to point them out?

Where was I ever referring to this "letter?" I have not even read it and it was not mentioned in your post, that I quoted. I was referring to the attitude of some people, here and other places. As for the letter I really could care less. The staff at Tiburon reads the forums and has a pretty good idea what the sentiment is toward their game. I sent one to Trip Hawkins when I was just a wee lad with a great idea on putting out a college game on the genesis, after playing the original Madden. Never heard back from Trip but with patience I finally got what I so desired.

[Soonerfan09]

Where was I ever referring to this "letter?" I have not even read it and it was not mentioned in your post, that I quoted. I was referring to the attitude of some people, here and other places. As for the letter I really could care less. The staff at Tiburon reads the forums and has a pretty good idea what the sentiment is toward their game. I sent one to Trip Hawkins when I was just a wee lad with a great idea on putting out a college game on the genesis, after playing the original Madden. Never heard back from Trip but with patience I finally got what I so desired.

Almost all of the discussion in this thread is about the letter...I said what I had to say, replying to anything you say is worthless and a waste of my time.

[JBHuskers]

After finally seeing the 'branch' in it's entirety, I agree with your take 100%. The letter has been undeleted but despite very valid points is tough to take completely serious given attacks by some of their site members against TGT and community members in the past.

First off, feedback regarding the EA Game Changers program should be sent to Community Manager Justin Dewiel. (Twitter: @JDewiel)

There are a lot of merits in the letter and I'd say a majority of the online NCAA Football community has the same general feelings, especially spiking with the recent issues and frustrations with Patch #2.

Feedback to game devs regarding the license exclusivity will go nowhere. It's people much higher in the food chain and pay scale at EA who make those calls including the NCAA. There has been a lot of community feedback among all sites regarding game issues over the years in various forms such as polls, wish list tourneys, podcasts, threads, posts, articles, but also some less than constructive. Some very valid points (across all sites) are tough to take seriously when laced with insults towards other community members and/or sites or personal attacks on developers. Community sites will fail to be on the exact same page until the community is able to avoid that type of behavior in all feedback and discussion. Get to the root of the issue without criticizing others.


Also, one user was banned in this thread but that was for creating a duplicate account after being banned here last year for creating a fake/joke account. Thought I would throw that out to avoid the possibility of more misinformation being bandied about. Regarding people being banned here in the past - they were not banned for opinions, but for attacks on this site and/or community members or developers.

Well said brother.


And I bet 2/3rds of those posts are not even in the NCAA Forums. I have voiced displeasure with certain aspects of the game. Voicing displeasure is one thing. Personal attacks toward some of the guys at Tiburon and the constant Walmart-esque behavior of the little boy crying because momma only got him one moon pie when he wanted two, is not going to help a damn thing.

...you're one of the few that "get it" in this industry.

[bdoughty]

replying to anything you say is worthless and a waste of my time.


http://usera.imagecave.com/bdoughty/moon_pie.jpg

[morsdraconis]

After reading the last couple pages I thought I would add a little reality into the picture.

I wake up at 11:30 today with my pulse skipping, racing and averaging over 160bpm. Had to call an ambulance as I was too dizzy to drive and spent 4 hours in the ER getting meds thrown down an IV to bring my pulse back down and to slow the fibrillation. So now I have Atrial Fibrillation to go along with one of the rare diseases, Wegener's granulomatosis. Not to mention the 10 other medical conditions I have.

Now I am not trying to seek pity but some of you dudes need to WAKE THE FUCK UP and realize it is a game. There is more to life than the GAME. Pages ago I wasted 30 minutes of my life trying to explaining why there is no quick fix to getting everything in the game and no matter how much logic or reasoning is used there will always be people that think it is as easy as turning a wrench.

Forum pissing matches are a waste of time. You utopia guys do what you do and the TGT guys will do what they do.

Stop worrying about Utopia says
Stop bashing OS

Just stick to your respective forum(s) and discuss the game amongst people that you enjoy discussing it with.

Life is simply to short for this shit.

I never got a chance to post about this, but I hope everything is ok man and I completely agree with the bolded part. I have basically come to that conclusion myself already as well. I don't even play the game anymore and don't plan to. Hell, I haven't even put it in to download the 2nd patch. :dunno: Isn't going to change the fact that the game just isn't what I'm looking for. I quickly got bored of it and moved on to other games worth playing. And such, this whole discussion is just one giant waste of time to me.

As I said before, you people are delusional if you think any of this will actually have any effect on the game. The situation that these developers are in is VERY unique (yearly release of a product that must have large changes or the target audience may not buy it) and they are under deadlines that I can't even imagine how difficult they are to achieve. I think their entire problem is that they tried to overachieve on this year's game by adding in three huge additions to the game that resulted in less time to be able to test everything either before it hit the shelves or once the patches were created.

At least we got a game that added three huge additions to the game instead of Madden, where they only did a bunch of small additions without doing anything to the underlying rotten core. I'd take a game that's buggy, but has new additions that I want (again, but I don't even play NCAA anymore but I was very excited to play it when it first came out and I did, quite a bit) over a game that's just plain bad because they have no fuckin' clue what Franchise players want (which resulted in me not even being able to finish a single game of Madden because it's just so absolutely bad).

[cdj]

Before this thread really gets started (again) for the day, we are going to issue the same statement Operation Sports did in a similar thread:

"This thread turns into a bashfest, a group of immature adults whining, OR an advertisement for another site, and it gets closed."

If we can't discuss the issues at hand without insulting other sites & members or turn a discussion on game issues into site promotion, then we'll have no choice but to close the thread. If the intent is truly legit, this shouldn't be a problem.

Carry on.

[I OU a Beatn]

And I bet 2/3rds of those posts are not even in the NCAA Forums. I have voiced displeasure with certain aspects of the game. Voicing displeasure is one thing. Personal attacks toward some of the guys at Tiburon and the constant Walmart-esque behavior of the little boy crying because momma only got him one moon pie when he wanted two, is not going to help a damn thing.

Doesn't relate at all. If NCAA '12 was the perfect game but they didn't include cannons(which they did, yippee) and people were upset about that, THAT is whining. When you have a game that has the EXACT SAME fundamental core issues as it has the past FIVE YEARS that virtually ruin the game for all hardcore players, what else are we supposed to do? I mean, really. EA KNOWS that they need to improve line interaction and have known for YEARS. EA KNOWS they need to improve defensive pursuit angles and have known for YEARS. EA KNOWS they need to improve the online and have known for YEARS.

Then you have issues that just cropped up this year. Custom playbooks, a HUGE selling point, are fucked up. You have multiple glitches online that have not and will not get patched this year(I would bet money on it) that make playing online completely pointless, so there's ANOTHER feature people can't use. You have the ball trajectory being fucked up so that a LB can get his hands on a ball that is throw 20 yards over his head(I realize this isn't a problem for some, but neither are any of the other blatant issues I list, so maybe you're just easy to please if you're reading this and don't think it's a problem). With a patch, they have now fucked up no huddle, defensive against the option, AND they fucked up another major marketing feature for this year with the zone coverage.

It's past the point of voicing displeasure. This game has been underwhelming since '08. I'm not even going to count '07 on 360 even though it was just as bad. That means we are now FIVE YEARS into having not up to par college football games. Hell, I'll throw Madden in there, too, because it's the same way. If it was one year, then I might consider it whining. Considering most of this shit has never worked, it's not whining.

[rhombic21]

On behalf of the group of authors responsible for the letter (and the entire Utopia community), I would like to try and clarify a few points. First, we recognize that our two sites have long-standing differences that are unlikely to be completely resolved anytime soon. The intent of this letter was not to embark down a path towards "friendship", but was rather meant to highlight common ground regarding concerns about the game's development. Setting aside our personal differences, we know that you also desire to see the quality of the game improve, and that you too are frustrated by both the lack of quality control prior to release and the failure of subsequent patch efforts to address these problems. We genuinely hope that you will join is in bringing more public attention to these issues, so that EA knows that the community will not stand for this type of behavior.

Second, we accept the fact that Utopia's role in the NCAA community will always be that of the drunken uncle who says inappropriate things at family gatherings. We are not, in any way, attempting to work ourselves into the Game Changer program, because (as our letter states) we do not see any value in it. With that said, we understand that you have your reasons for thinking differently, and we are content to let those differences slide. We do, however, think that EA deserves to be called out for their manipulation of community interaction efforts over the past several years (not just the GC program, but also its predecessors), and we think that you have as much right as anybody to join us in doing so. After all, you are the ones who always end up shouldering a bunch of blame when EA fails to follow through on their promises, so you have been victimized in this just as much (if not moreso) than anybody else.

These are trying times for the NCAA community. The game that we all love is not where it should be, and we need to put forth a united front now more than ever. We would really appreciate it if you would co-sign our letter and help spread the message throughout the gaming community. But even if you can't do that, please at least craft a message of your own, to state, in your own words, the problems that you see with the game and its development. EA deserves to be taken to task for what they have done! If you would join the cause, it could really make a big difference in helping the community get their attention and push them to finally make some real "Game Changing" reforms.

[JBHuskers]

Just to clear the air in case anyone complains about Rhombic's message getting deleted. He is banned, and somehow was able to post. That has been fixed.

[Deuce]

N/m. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JBHuskers]

Post reinstated since it is fine. But for breaking site rules Rhombic is banned, he wasn't supposed to be able to post orignally.

[Oneback]

On behalf of the group of authors responsible for the letter (and the entire Utopia community), I would like to try and clarify a few points. First, we recognize that our two sites have long-standing differences that are unlikely to be completely resolved anytime soon. The intent of this letter was not to embark down a path towards "friendship", but was rather meant to highlight common ground regarding concerns about the game's development. Setting aside our personal differences, we know that you also desire to see the quality of the game improve, and that you too are frustrated by both the lack of quality control prior to release and the failure of subsequent patch efforts to address these problems. We genuinely hope that you will join is in bringing more public attention to these issues, so that EA knows that the community will not stand for this type of behavior.

Second, we accept the fact that Utopia's role in the NCAA community will always be that of the drunken uncle who says inappropriate things at family gatherings. We are not, in any way, attempting to work ourselves into the Game Changer program, because (as our letter states) we do not see any value in it. With that said, we understand that you have your reasons for thinking differently, and we are content to let those differences slide. We do, however, think that EA deserves to be called out for their manipulation of community interaction efforts over the past several years (not just the GC program, but also its predecessors), and we think that you have as much right as anybody to join us in doing so. After all, you are the ones who always end up shouldering a bunch of blame when EA fails to follow through on their promises, so you have been victimized in this just as much (if not moreso) than anybody else.

These are trying times for the NCAA community. The game that we all love is not where it should be, and we need to put forth a united front now more than ever. We would really appreciate it if you would co-sign our letter and help spread the message throughout the gaming community. But even if you can't do that, please at least craft a message of your own, to state, in your own words, the problems that you see with the game and its development. EA deserves to be taken to task for what they have done! If you would join the cause, it could really make a big difference in helping the community get their attention and push them to finally make some real "Game Changing" reforms.


Post reinstated since it is fine. But for breaking site rules Rhombic is banned, he wasn't supposed to be able to post orignally.

So, I've got to ask since the request is out there...mod staff at TGT what is the response?

Community Day invitees like myself, JeffHCross and Kwizzy have openly expressed our frustrations and our need to have some questions answered as we continue with this process. gschwendt has expressed his frustration and could see himself writing a letter much like Utopia did...so as a person that has been a part of the NCAA community since 2003 I would like to know where my community leaders stand.

[JBHuskers]

There is no manipulation going on here. But we need to get to the bottom of where all these errors lie. Flooding letters all about isn't really going to help much unless directed to the right people. Just randomly posting them everywhere really isn't going to get the message across. Talking and meeting with the right people could. Since there is a shuffling going on at the top, it may have to wait to see how all of that plays out before initiating these meetings and talks.

[psusnoop]

Honestly here is where I stand and I'm not a community leader at all.

If TGT wants to send a letter out to EA then I have no problem with that at all. I'm all about making the game better.

If Utopia wants to send a letter out to EA I have no problem with that at all either.

There doesn't have to be just one letter and why should TGT hold hands with Utopia in this matter? Sure we all want what is best for this game and that has been and will always be the primary goal over here at TGT. The difference is in the delivery and that is where Utopia is different. Is the concern from Utopia, that if they send the letter out from their site that it won't get heard? Would TGT signing off on it maybe help the letter in being read atleast? Sure maybe it would but in the end Utopia made the bed that they are lying in and there is no need for TGT to hold Utopia's hand in getting their concerns heard.

[Oneback]

Honestly here is where I stand and I'm not a community leader at all.

If TGT wants to send a letter out to EA then I have no problem with that at all. I'm all about making the game better.

If Utopia wants to send a letter out to EA I have no problem with that at all either.

There doesn't have to be just one letter and why should TGT hold hands with Utopia in this matter? Sure we all want what is best for this game and that has been and will always be the primary goal over here at TGT. The difference is in the delivery and that is where Utopia is different. Is the concern from Utopia, that if they send the letter out from their site that it won't get heard? Would TGT signing off on it maybe help the letter in being read atleast? Sure maybe it would but in the end Utopia made the bed that they are lying in and there is no need for TGT to hold Utopia's hand in getting their concerns heard.

Utopia isn't asking for TGT to co-sign per se, they are asking to stand as a community united so we can all figure out a way to get these problems solved. TGT carries more weight because this is the site where all the community leaders are...so they are reaching out to have this site lead the community not just TGT, but the NCAA community.

Myself and a lot of others are not happy about the way Utopia has taken personal shots at EA, however they are still a part of the NCAA community and there are a lot of good ideas over there. Now, could they help themselves by putting some of the hatred aside, yes! However, as NCAA community leaders TGT speaks for the entire community and therefore should listen to the entire community's voice. On the flip side Utopia members need to cut out the personal attacks on EA to be taken seriously.

There is blame to be had on both sides, but until we come together as a NCAA community the message will be fractured and not always heard. TGT should take the lead in this endeavor to reach out to all the community's, form alliances and lead the community.

[Kwizzy]

My feeling on their letter is what it has always been with feedback by that site... All of the reasonable & well thought out points being made are buried in all of the negativity and name calling that goes on there. It's not that I don't agree with some if not most of their points it's the backhanded method in which it all seems to be encased. Hell the title of the thread, the #Nebraska tag, etc... it's all clearly a shot at TGT & the mods here and I feel that if the true intent was to unite the community in the way that is suggested, then those things should and would have been left out. Not to mention the thread that it is posted in is full of the same unreasonable and ridiculous name calling directed at the devs which is counter-productive.

As for the state of the game, I have many of the same concerns about the ability of the current engine to make the changes necessary. I am utterly disappointed by the issues inherent in the new and old features of the game as well as the piss poor patches that have come out to address those issues.

To their stance on the game changers and community leaders program, I do not agree with what they have stated. I will and have admitted that I still have some questions about how my feedback is being used, and how much EA is willing to accept our criticisms and make the necessary changes. If the answers to my questions are not what I want them to be, I will not take part in the programs. I refuse to let what those who wrote the letter have insinuated about the program be true of me(which is all I have control over). To this point I do not feel that that is the case. I have NOT been told what to say about the game, I have NOT been told not to criticize the game, and I have NOT held back my critiques of the game. I admit that none of us were very negative about the game pre-release but I will swear, and others can attest to the fact that, none of these MAJOR issues were encountered pre-patch1. IMO when we first got this game it played pretty dang well and took some time to identify many of the issues.

I would support the writing of our own letter to EA as a community, but I would not co-sign the letter that has been set forth presently.

[JBHuskers]

Well said Kwizzy.

[psusnoop]

My feeling on their letter is what it has always been with feedback by that site... All of the reasonable & well thought out points being made are buried in all of the negativity and name calling that goes on there. It's not that I don't agree with some if not most of their points it's the backhanded method in which it all seems to be encased. Hell the title of the thread, the #Nebraska tag, etc... it's all clearly a shot at TGT & the mods here and I feel that if the true intent was to unite the community in the way that is suggested, then those things should and would have been left out. Not to mention the thread that it is posted in is full of the same unreasonable and ridiculous name calling directed at the devs which is counter-productive.

As for the state of the game, I have many of the same concerns about the ability of the current engine to make the changes necessary. I am utterly disappointed by the issues inherent in the new and old features of the game as well as the piss poor patches that have come out to address those issues.

To their stance on the game changers and community leaders program, I do not agree with what they have stated. I will and have admitted that I still have some questions about how my feedback is being used, and how much EA is willing to accept our criticisms and make the necessary changes. If the answers to my questions are not what I want them to be, I will not take part in the programs. I refuse to let what those who wrote the letter have insinuated about the program be true of me(which is all I have control over). To this point I do not feel that that is the case. I have NOT been told what to say about the game, I have NOT been told not to criticize the game, and I have NOT held back my critiques of the game. I admit that none of us were very negative about the game pre-release but I will swear, and others can attest to the fact that, none of these MAJOR issues were encountered pre-patch1. IMO when we first got this game it played pretty dang well and took some time to identify many of the issues.

I would support the writing of our own letter to EA as a community, but I would not co-sign the letter that has been set forth presently.

Completely agree Kwizzy, I'm all for TGT writing something up within this site and from this site.

[Deuce]

My feeling on their letter is what it has always been with feedback by that site... All of the reasonable & well thought out points being made are buried in all of the negativity and name calling that goes on there. It's not that I don't agree with some if not most of their points it's the backhanded method in which it all seems to be encased. Hell the title of the thread, the #Nebraska tag, etc... it's all clearly a shot at TGT & the mods here and I feel that if the true intent was to unite the community in the way that is suggested, then those things should and would have been left out. Not to mention the thread that it is posted in is full of the same unreasonable and ridiculous name calling directed at the devs which is counter-productive.


I had no idea that was going on. I haven't been over there in 2 years. I just don't get it...what response did they think they were going to get on that letter with all that nonsense?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cdj]

Honestly here is where I stand and I'm not a community leader at all.

Your comment here is an interesting one. I don't think someone has to be a "Game Changer", run a website, or do anything like that to be a community leader. I would say there are lots of guys who I consider community leaders in some way, shape or form. I'd say lots of people are community leaders. One doesn't need a fancy title to make it so.

You have always given feedback and info very respectfully and detailed. That's leading. Off the top of my head, guys like Solidice (answers tons of game questions), rudyjuly (very game knowledgeable like Solidice), ram29jackson (very creative with TeamBuilder), psuexv, mors with recruiting stratgies, IOU & MrHitStick with online feedback and strategies, etc. and many others are community leaders in my eyes (such as Pig Bomb, keyser soze, Dr Death and apologies to the many I am not listing for the sake of time) and I think many others are as well. Guys like IDAHODUB and aurelius with YouTube videos are also in that group.

[psusnoop]

Thanks Chris and that is what makes this site a great site for everyone.

[JBHuskers]

Thanks Chris and that is what makes this site a great site for everyone.

That's why I have to defend all of these falsehoods about us, the site, the Game Changers, etc. Because this is a great site for everyone. Hence the motto.

[psusnoop]

That's why I have to defend all of these falsehoods about us, the site, the Game Changers, etc. Because this is a great site for everyone. Hence the motto.

As this site should and hopefully you guys continue to do so!

[I OU a Beatn]

I would support the writing of our own letter to EA as a community, but I would not co-sign the letter that has been set forth presently.

That defeats the purpose. Whether it be here, Utopia, OS, or any of the other community sites, we are all the same. Sure each site has a very different way of handling things, but that's about it. In the end, we ALL want a good college football game that plays as realistically as possible to what we see every Saturday, right? I personally believe that if EA were to see a united front from all the community sites, the issues would have a better chance of getting corrected.

Does that mean TGT needs to hold hands with Utopia and forget everything that has been said? Not at all, but since we all want the same thing, it sure as hell wouldn't hurt to work together to get that accomplished.

[Roy38]

Roy, I'm failing to understand something to. I don't want to say "what is your agenda", because I think that phrase would have a misleading connotation. And I don't want to say "who cares", because it's obvious that you care, and that would also have a misleading connotation. So bear with me, because I think you know what I'm trying to get at -- but what are you wanting to see changed about this? At first, I thought you wanted to see the relationship between Game Changers and EA explained. I would think that's been done by now. Then I thought you might want to see TGT completely disassociate itself from EA ... but you made some posts that suggested that wasn't the point. So now, I'm simply not sure. I think you may be looking for some of the same answers that I, myself, am trying to figure out. So if it's simply pure curiosity, and wanting to get your questions answered, I'm all for that. But otherwise ... what are you looking for here?

I would have hoped I conveyed my message through my previous posts. However, I can understand how the focus can be lost while weaving in and out of traffic.

You were correct in that I wanted to understand the relationship between Game Changers participants, Community Day attendees, and EA. Simply put, I wanted to gather information before I decided to post my overall opinion rather than the typical "knee jerk" reaction we're all accustomed to. Had I learned their relationship with EA was much more extensive through actual pay, kickbacks, etc., I would've shaped my opinion a different way, and rightfully so. After I determined their relationship was minimal (although some could argue otherwise), I decided to proceed to my initial perception on the program and events. Granted, I don't know anyone here from Adam (or Utopia for that matter), but I'd like to think I take each person at their word until they prove otherwise. However, I would like to point out here that silence can communicate a different message (and for those that don't read carefully, notice I don't say, "does communicate").

Since I determined their relationship was minimal, I decided to post my view of the Game Changers program and Community Day events in regards to EA. As you've might have read earlier, some of the participants that responded to my questions indicated that they had mixed to negative feelings about their involvement with the programs. Some are debating on participating next year, while others will refuse to be involved unless changes are made. My feeling is EA is using these hard working individuals in a manner other than intended, which I think is unfortunate. It is my belief it is simply a marketing ploy by EA to create a positive reaction in consumers - and that belief is strengthened after the failures of Title Update #1 and #2. Consequently, it created a secondary benefit of having someone else handle their dirty work (i.e., bug detection) as well as become a middle man for the consumers. As bdoughty quickly pointed out:

"Should they stop being a go-between because the product has issues? It is not like they are defending the issues or not responding to them. Does that benefit NCAA 13 and beyond? I like having the ear of someone who has the ear of EA. It beats calling customer service with a problem, complaint or suggestion or for that matter trying to do so on the EA Forums."

This was the trend I was seeing over the last few months. Somewhere along the way, the line between The Gaming Tailgate and EA became blurred. I say the Gaming Tailgate now because this site's owners and co-founders were participants (along with several others) in EA's programs and/or events, and let's face it, they shape this website towards their vision, and I'm sure some respect is given towards its community in the process. I only wanted to caution these individuals to what I was seeing and apparently, several others (personal agendas or not) see it also. I have no business telling them how to run their business, although if I were to voice my opinion, I think a clear definition is in order to separate Game Changers, The Gaming Tailgate (among others), and EA - and not just a tagline of "We are not EA". I think many have confused the function of Game Changers, which, in turn, confuses the function of The Gaming Tailgate and other websites. Don't misunderstand me, I think these outlets serve a purpose and it's important to help people who are having problems with the game, whether it's X's and O's, Recruiting, Dynasty, etc., but when problems are followed up by, "I'll forward this on to the development team" gives an individual a sense they have a direct connection to EA, and therefore, will discontinue using the traditional method of contacting EA. Look at it this way, when you have a problem or issue with your cell phone, cable service, internet, etc., we all hate making that contact because that usually involves talking to a computer and lengthy wait times for an actual human, if at all. But, when you have a direct connection with a person, it makes that contact much easier, regardless if they can actually help you or not.

I have many questions, and several more specific to EA and the NCAA franchise, but this shouldn't be the place to voice those concerns. I don't have the answers and I really don't know where to begin to fix the process. However, I do know that I will not stand for EA or their methodology anymore. For the first time, I will not purchase an NCAA product next year, at least from EA, until they prove to me they are a changed franchise. I feel part of the issue stems from the fact there is no competitor on the market. If you want to play a college football game, you are forced to purchase an EA product - and that stranglehold bothers me. Another issue is the exclusive license agreement. Let's face it, we'd prefer playing with teams and universities we can relate to, not figments of our imagination.

I realize some individuals feel differently than I do and that the problems that exist don't effect them or at least minimally bothered by them. However, I would challenge those individuals to consider this: What will you do when the problems DO become an issue for you? EA has committed fewer and fewer resources towards the development of the game over the years (yet their marketing is as strong as ever) and only time remains until those problems trickle down to the smallest of levels within the game. Do you wait for your turn to stand up or do you make your stand now?

[morsdraconis]

I realize some individuals feel differently than I do and that the problems that exist don't effect them or at least minimally bothered by them. However, I would challenge those individuals to consider this: What will you do when the problems DO become an issue for you? EA has committed fewer and fewer resources towards the development of the game over the years (yet their marketing is as strong as ever) and only time remains until those problems trickle down to the smallest of levels within the game. Do you wait for your turn to stand up or do you make your stand now?

Nope. I play other video games. Football isn't THAT important.

[Deuce]

I think you are doing the right thing by not buying an EA product. If that's how you feel that's the only true way to make your voice heard. If I get to your point I'll be doing the same thing...as should everyone.

As far as the rest of your post... The guys involved in the GC's programs are grown men. If they feel like they are being used they'll sever that tie. A few have already said as much.


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[Kwizzy]

That defeats the purpose. Whether it be here, Utopia, OS, or any of the other community sites, we are all the same. Sure each site has a very different way of handling things, but that's about it. In the end, we ALL want a good college football game that plays as realistically as possible to what we see every Saturday, right? I personally believe that if EA were to see a united front from all the community sites, the issues would have a better chance of getting corrected.

Does that mean TGT needs to hold hands with Utopia and forget everything that has been said? Not at all, but since we all want the same thing, it sure as hell wouldn't hurt to work together to get that accomplished.

Ok, in theory, what you're saying is absolutely true. If everyone believed exactly the same things, but we don't. I have pointed out issues I have with their open letter. I'm not going to pretend to agree with everything they have said simply to provide a united front any more than I am going to sugarcoat and agree with everything EA does. Even in this site we can't all agree on all of the issues.

[steelerfan]

I love all this talk about "taking a stand", "united fronts", and this being "trying times for the NCAA Community". So dramatic!

[I OU a Beatn]

Ok, in theory, what you're saying is absolutely true. If everyone believed exactly the same things, but we don't. I have pointed out issues I have with their open letter. I'm not going to pretend to agree with everything they have said simply to provide a united front any more than I am going to sugarcoat and agree with everything EA does. Even in this site we can't all agree on all of the issues.

But we can agree that there are a TON of issues that need to start being addressed. Whether that means one or two issues a year, then whatever, but something needs to happen. A lot of the issues that people are ticked about are reoccurring issues that have existed for a very long time. Line interaction has never worked, this generation or last. Defensive pursuit angles have never worked correctly, this generation or last. I really do not care how it happens, but it definitely needs to happen. I expect the game to be on par with some of the gems we received during the PS2 days and so do a lot of other people.

[Kwizzy]

I love all this talk about "taking a stand", "united fronts", and this being "trying times for the NCAA Community". So dramatic!

Ha! Makes you wanna pick up your pitchfork and join a lynch mob doesn't it? I think the first person we should go after is whoever is in charge of the ESPN NBA NEWS text alert system. If I get one more text like this I'm gonnna freak the fuck out!

Lebron James tweet: "I like dancing like a little girl, teehee..."

WTF DO HIS TWEETS HAVE TO DO WITH NBA NEWS!!!!????

[JBHuskers]

Ha! Makes you wanna pick up your pitchfork and join a lynch mob doesn't it? I think the first person we should go after is whoever is in charge of the ESPN NBA NEWS text alert system. If I get one more text like this I'm gonnna freak the fuck out!


WTF DO HIS TWEETS HAVE TO DO WITH NBA NEWS!!!!????

Should we go Jerry McGuire style?

[SmoothPancakes]

Ha! Makes you wanna pick up your pitchfork and join a lynch mob doesn't it? I think the first person we should go after is whoever is in charge of the ESPN NBA NEWS text alert system. If I get one more text like this I'm gonnna freak the fuck out!


WTF DO HIS TWEETS HAVE TO DO WITH NBA NEWS!!!!????

I'm on board. :D

[Kwizzy]

But we can agree that there are a TON of issues that need to start being addressed. Whether that means one or two issues a year, then whatever, but something needs to happen. A lot of the issues that people are ticked about are reoccurring issues that have existed for a very long time. Line interaction has never worked, this generation or last. Defensive pursuit angles have never worked correctly, this generation or last. I really do not care how it happens, but it definitely needs to happen. I expect the game to be on par with some of the gems we received during the PS2 days and so do a lot of other people.

I can get behind that... So here's just a quick question. How do we convey our priorities to EA as a community? I think that the answer lies in some of the things we have been doing however perhaps with some changes. The wishlist tournament for example, perhaps we should vote on the seeding, etc... But if your priority is fixing something rather than something new then your votes should reflect that. Those of us who go to events will continue to harp on how important these details are as well. Other than that, I really don't see what else can be done short of not buying the game to show your displeasure.

[Deuce]

Other than that, I really don't see what else can be done short of not buying the game to show your displeasure.

Exactly...people need to put their money where their mouth is. The suits at EA aren't going to provide the resources needed until the bottom line is impacted. Or they will no longer profit from this game and quit making it allowing other companies to step in. If you want to take a stand...stop buying it.


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[I OU a Beatn]

I can get behind that... So here's just a quick question. How do we convey our priorities to EA as a community? I think that the answer lies in some of the things we have been doing however perhaps with some changes. The wishlist tournament for example, perhaps we should vote on the seeding, etc... But if your priority is fixing something rather than something new then your votes should reflect that. Those of us who go to events will continue to harp on how important these details are as well. Other than that, I really don't see what else can be done short of not buying the game to show your displeasure.

I personally believe EA should go after the issues that cause other issues. The two examples I posted previously are perfect examples. I'll go with line interaction first. What aspects of the game does this affect? A TON. The pass rush isn't where it should be because of it. The run blocking isn't where it should be. Run blocking from shotgun is even worse. Blitz pick up is often times messed up. There's easily 5+ issues that are caused by one thing being wrong.

Next up is defensive pursuit angles, which is a HUGE annoyance for me. Online, the user has to make most of the plays manually because the defender will take the wrong angle and end up getting beat to the sideline. Outside runs are a HUGE problem because the defensive pursuit is messed up. If you run a tackle play, all the defenders will try to under cut the runner which creates a huge lane to the outside instead of doing what they should and stretching the play out. It also has affects on the deep ball. How many times have you seen a deep safety get beat deep for an easy score because he took the wrong angle?

Issues like those are the ones that should be addressed first, IMO, simply because they would end up fixing several issues at once. The wishlist tournament is also a nice place to look for feedback, as it shows EA exactly which areas of the game most people want to be improved. Other than that, EA knows the issues that need to be corrected. They probably play the game more than anyone, so they know, they just need to correct them.

[Kwizzy]

I personally believe EA should go after the issues that cause other issues. The two examples I posted previously are perfect examples. I'll go with line interaction first. What aspects of the game does this affect? A TON. The pass rush isn't where it should be because of it. The run blocking isn't where it should be. Run blocking from shotgun is even worse. Blitz pick up is often times messed up. There's easily 5+ issues that are caused by one thing being wrong.

Next up is defensive pursuit angles, which is a HUGE annoyance for me. Online, the user has to make most of the plays manually because the defender will take the wrong angle and end up getting beat to the sideline. Outside runs are a HUGE problem because the defensive pursuit is messed up. If you run a tackle play, all the defenders will try to under cut the runner which creates a huge lane to the outside instead of doing what they should and stretching the play out. It also has affects on the deep ball. How many times have you seen a deep safety get beat deep for an easy score because he took the wrong angle?

Issues like those are the ones that should be addressed first, IMO, simply because they would end up fixing several issues at once. The wishlist tournament is also a nice place to look for feedback, as it shows EA exactly which areas of the game most people want to be improved. Other than that, EA knows the issues that need to be corrected. They probably play the game more than anyone, so they know, they just need to correct them.

I agree completely, I actually have disagreed with some of the stuff Oneback has been harping on because it's too specific. Who cares how the damn LB aligns in X coverage to carry the blah blah..... It's too specific IMO. There are some core fundamental issues like the defense not aligning to the offense's strength PERIOD! Not knocking Oneback at all, he obviously knows what he's talking about, but I think the focus needs to be even more basic.

My poiint is that the only options we have as consumers is to buy or not buy, and organize the info that we as the customer have compiled in as best a way as we can. EA is going to do what they want, regardless of how much we bitch and moan. So I'm saying we need to focus our feedback in such a way that we make it obvious what our preferences are.

For instance, why does coaching carousel make it past the first round of the tournament if the larger issues are basic football concepts? You may argue that it's because people here don't care enough about the specifics and that may be somewhat true. But that is where Utopia has done themselves a big disservice in the past, those members need to organize their bitching into a productive system and MAKE THEIR OPINION HEARD! Which as it's been pointed out to me, appears at least to be what they are trying to do. So even though I do not agree with all of their conclusions and points, I do think it's a step in the right direction.

[ram29jackson]

wow....this gets more fascinating by the day LOL...they posted on the EA forums...it lasted a few hours I believe... I posted under it and realize the only reason my post was deleted was because I used the word =dangit..thats just silly


i'm referring to yesterday, they posted again today

[Deuce]

Geez Ram! Watch your mouth! ;)


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[ram29jackson]

Ha! Makes you wanna pick up your pitchfork and join a lynch mob doesn't it? I think the first person we should go after is whoever is in charge of the ESPN NBA NEWS text alert system. If I get one more text like this I'm gonnna freak the fuck out!


WTF DO HIS TWEETS HAVE TO DO WITH NBA NEWS!!!!????


he's been NBA news since high school, everything his mother does is NBA news LOL, its a slow NBA news day, therefore....the tweets of a super staa"......R

[Kwizzy]

Nope, if his tweets in any way pertained to the NBA I MAY understand... but if I cared what he had to say, I would follow him on twitter.

[JBHuskers]

Nope, if his tweets in any way pertained to the NBA I MAY understand... but if I cared what he had to say, I would follow him on twitter.

You mean you don't care about his thoughts on Tebow to start? :o

[Kwizzy]

You mean you don't care about his thoughts on Tebow to start? :o

I don't care if he is stuck in a train headed for a bridge that's out personally! It annoys the piss out of me how bad ESPN has gotten in the last 5-10 yrs!

[JBHuskers]

I don't care if he is stuck in a train headed for a bridge that's out personally! It annoys the piss out of me how bad ESPN has gotten in the last 5-10 yrs!

You could imagine the orgasm ESPN had when LeBron tweeted about Tebow :fp:

[Kwizzy]

You could imagine the orgasm ESPN had when LeBron tweeted about Tebow :fp:

:bang:

[SmoothPancakes]

You could imagine the orgasm ESPN had when LeBron tweeted about Tebow :fp:

Hell, that'd be a breaking news story on Sportscenter. :fp:

[ram29jackson]

Your comment here is an interesting one. I don't think someone has to be a "Game Changer", run a website, or do anything like that to be a community leader. I would say there are lots of guys who I consider community leaders in some way, shape or form. I'd say lots of people are community leaders. One doesn't need a fancy title to make it so.

You have always given feedback and info very respectfully and detailed. That's leading. Off the top of my head, guys like Solidice (answers tons of game questions), rudyjuly (very game knowledgeable like Solidice), ram29jackson (very creative with TeamBuilder), psuexv, mors with recruiting stratgies, IOU & MrHitStick with online feedback and strategies, etc. and many others are community leaders in my eyes (such as Pig Bomb, keyser soze, Dr Death and apologies to the many I am not listing for the sake of time) and I think many others are as well. Guys like IDAHODUB and aurelius with YouTube videos are also in that group.

Gosh, thanks

well, anyone who comes to a site like this and mentions something over a year or so, must have been read or noted by someone of EA importance

[JBHuskers]

Hell, that'd be a breaking news story on Sportscenter. :fp:

It was because it happened a couple months ago :D

[bdoughty]

Shocking, the thread on the letter got locked at OS due to immature, attacking posts.

Walmart moon pie analogy - 2
acting like a spoiled child - 0

[souljahbill]

The game isn't "getting better" because of people like me. I honestly would be unaware of everything people complain about if it weren't for these forums. I think the games are fun until I visit the community sites. Only then am I aware that so much is "bad."


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[ram29jackson]

The game isn't "getting better" because of people like me. I honestly would be unaware of everything people complain about if it weren't for these forums. I think the games are fun until I visit the community sites. Only then am I aware that so much is "bad."


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which means its not bad to the general public..only to the hardcore..and the hardcore dont generate the majority of the sales..they just help make it more footballesque

[Roy38]

Nope. I play other video games. Football isn't THAT important.

Quick question: Have you noticed the number of developers that EA has placed under their umbrella over the last several years?

[JeffHCross]

Roy, most of your reply to me was well-said. While there are some aspects I disagree with, personally, I can see why your opinion has formed the way that it has, and there's really nothing I can say to refute them. As you said, it's your opinion and you're calling it like you see it. I can't dispute that.

However, I did want to comment on one thing:

EA has committed fewer and fewer resources towards the development of the game over the years (yet their marketing is as strong as ever)I do not believe this is the case. While I have no hard or firm numbers, every indication I've received over the last few years is that Tiburon is growing, not shrinking.


Quick question: Have you noticed the number of developers that EA has placed under their umbrella over the last several years?The last several? They've been doing it throughout their entire history. If anything, they've slowed it down. Yes, they have the EA Partners publishing brand now, and that could be considered their "umbrella", but the Partners program allows developers to retain their IP while taking advantage of AAA publishing support, and I think that's a positive for the industry as a whole.

[morsdraconis]

Quick question: Have you noticed the number of developers that EA has placed under their umbrella over the last several years?

Nope. I don't pay attention to the inner workings of any company. I could care less who makes the game unless it's Id. They're the only company that matters and that remains to be seen with them being bought by Bethesda.

[texacotea]

Well lets see, im kinda hit and miss here so this may be looked over in general. I respect CDJ/JB and G and everything the do and usually keep in touch with G for the most part. I have been in his OD for a while before I ventured off to XBOX. But I will say I agree with the letter 100%, I have never "traded" in a NCAA game before the new addition came out until this yr. The addition to CC was my most asked for addition and never really got into it a whole lot because of the freezes I had. I then started RTG and experienced the same exact thing. I installed it on the HD and all, What took the cake was the issues with OD, not being able to connect in user games, connecting and then it being thrown out the window because it would DC in the 2nd quarter,the file transfer deal and the issue with adding recruits after off-season recruiting was done.

As most ODs did ours went on hold until the patch come out. I lost the appeal to play and I can say that if we werent on hold I wouldnt have lost it. I do believe that if TGT believes this letter is true and sincerly want to make a impact for this game then it needs to be said. I understand that it may be better worded or somethings like that but I dont believe that anything was made to take a shot at anyone. The olive branch part and the banned part may have been un called for, but 95% of the people here came from/ still visit Utopia and know exactly how everyone is there.

All that said, it needs to be addressed, and I hear JB and them guys saying they are doing it. But EA brought all these guys on to make it a better product and have a good group of guys assembled to do. Fact of the matter is that it hasnt been done and it looks like to "us" the guys who dont have an inside look that they are not doing anything, It Sept and things that were issues in July are still issues and new ones have came up.

[Kwizzy]

I do believe that if TGT believes this letter is true and sincerly want to make a impact for this game then it needs to be said.

The problem here is that not everyone does agree with all of the points the letter makes. To my knowledge, no one here has said that they don't agree with most of the points about the game itself. I personally feel that they are spot on about many of those issues.

I do however disagree with their conclusions about the game changers and community day events, and I have explained why, as do most people here. Also, I really don't think the exclusive license part is very productive. As I said on Utopia yesterday, I don't think the license is good for the game but I also don't think there is anything we can do about it. Certainly taking that complaint up with EA wont yield any results, those are smart business decisions in their eyes. That fight should be taken to the NCAA or BBB or something IMO.

So what I am saying in regards to the letter is that I support them in their quest to get everyone who feels the way they do to be united in their effort in presenting that to EA. I just personally don't agree with a large chunk of what they have said & therefore will not get on board with it. As for the issues with the game itself, I have submitted that feedback to EA, there is nothing more that I can do other than follow up with them in the future.

[Pig Bomb]

The only thing I see coming from the letter is the the development team will just cut ties with any website that supports it.
Hardcore NCAA players are in the minority and we just aren't that valuable to EA.

EA clearly uses the harcore community as an internet marketing tool [and yes they do get feedback and ideas from them as well] and any part of the tool not on board with their message will get chopped off.

While some upper management might be concerned about an anti-EA grassroots movement, the development team need only to show them the "record start" in sales of NCAA this year to squash their concerns.

The only way we get big changes is if our group of harcore gamers that are unsatisfied with EA's game grow in numbers and become so large that we actually hurt sales in a big way.
At the same time, grow big enough to show other developers that we would buy their version of a collge game [if it was better than EA's] even if they don't have all the licensing.
The developer just needs to make everything open to edit, and the community can "make it" look like real college football.
Like Konami does with their soccer game [Pro Evolution] against EA's FIFA Soccer.
Until recently Konami was king and EA had to completely change their FIFA game in order to regain the top spot and claim the best soccer game.
Wouldn't that be awesome if it happened with collge football??

[I OU a Beatn]

I do however disagree with their conclusions about the game changers and community day events, and I have explained why, as do most people here. Also, I really don't think the exclusive license part is very productive. As I said on Utopia yesterday, I don't think the license is good for the game but I also don't think there is anything we can do about it. Certainly taking that complaint up with EA wont yield any results, those are smart business decisions in their eyes. That fight should be taken to the NCAA or BBB or something IMO.

In my eyes and most of everyone's eyes, it is a useless program. The problem here is that you guys are assuming we're bashing guys like CDJ, G, and everyone else who is a part of the program, and that is not the case. I, much like most everyone else, believe all the Game Changers have the absolute sincerest intentions of only making the game better. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind.

However, there's been numerous people say that EA doesn't listen to all their feedback. That's exactly why people are saying it's a useless program. As I see it, if EA isn't going to listen to the issues the Game Changers present, then what the hell is the point? To me, it seems like EA is using them as a free marketing tool at the expense of the Game Changers. "Oh hey, look...we invited several people here to play our game and provide 'feedback,' so you know that we're doing our best to fix problems." It also takes a lot of heat off EA, just like with this recent patch. The guys here took a tremendous amount of heat because of the issues the patch introduced, and they also took a ton of heat whenever people found out custom playbooks weren't working correctly. How the hell is it their fault? It's not only bullshit for people to blame them, but it's also bullshit for EA to allow them to be placed in that position.

Whether that is the actual case or not, I do not know for sure. I can only go on what I see. I do know this, though. Name ONE major thing that has either been added or fixed based purely on the feedback given by Game Changers. Zilch.

[Deuce]

I don't have much to add but this...feedback does not affect implementation. Feedback is only for what needs to be fixed or what needs to be added. ...and this isn't to refute anything you've said IOU. But blaming the CD and GC programs b/c of poor implementation is not fair.


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[Kwizzy]

I understand that people are not attacking us personally but the program as a whole and EA's intentions with it. I have only been involved since January but as I have said, I have not gotten that impression from the devs in my dealings with them. All I can say is what I have been saying I WILL NOT CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE IN THESE EVENTS IF I FEEL THAT I AM SIMPLY BEING USED AS A MARKETING TOOL. If EA can not keep me convinced that their intentions with this program are exactly what the name of the program implies, then I will change my mind very quickly. Bottom line, for me at least, is that I would like to hear what steps are being taken to change what has been a very poorly handled release in the future and what steps they are taking to incorporate our feedback.

In general though I have enjoyed working closely with the devs and getting their impressions as well as giving my own. I hope that these conversations lead to our feedback being implemented soon.

[morsdraconis]

I don't have much to add but this...feedback does not affect implementation. Feedback is only for what needs to be fixed or what needs to be added. ...and this isn't to refute anything you've said IOU. But blaming the CD and GC programs b/c of poor implementation is not fair.


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Even more so, blaming the CD and GC programs for things not being immediately implemented is just as unjustified. Yes, we know that they haven't done anything about the online exploits that have been pointed out for several years, but has there ever been a thought that they can't do anything about it? Or the amount of time spent on trying to figure out what's causing (could be a quite large amount of time trying to track down the buggy piece of code causing it) isn't worth it when compared to the amount of time spent on doing something else for the betterment of the game?

[I OU a Beatn]

I'm not talking online exploits, I'm talking the glaring issues each one of these games has had. I'm not blaming the Game Changers program for anything. The definition, as I read it, is so that feedback can be given to the EA development team from the community. My question is, if the majority of the feedback is ignored and/or can't be implemented, what is the point of it?

[Dewiel]

All,

I've seen some of you asking questions about the Game Changers program and since I created the program and run it, I want to clear up a few of the misconceptions that seem to exist. First off, we do not ask anyone to hold back feedback, just say positive things, or anything along those lines. That's not what the Game Changers program or our community events in general are about. These guys come in here with TONS of notes and items directly from your forum, NCAA Strategies, Tradition Sports Online, OS, ThrutheUprights, and numerous other sites. I tell them from the moment they arrive to not hold back any punches and the only thing they are told is that if they were to give us only positive feedback then the events would be pointless and they wouldn't be brought back. That's how things are and that's how they will continue to be.

The Game Changers are simply community members who are very active and looking to make our games the best they can be by providing actionable feedback in a professional manner. One example of this is the Wishlist tournament that these guys run every year. Everyone over here pays attention to how things end up and these guys make sure that we are updated along the way. Take a look at how the tournament went last year and look at some of the features in this year's game and I think you'll quickly see how much we pay attention to it. Game Changers are also out there running tournaments, helping other community members, and working to build the community overall. We have plenty of examples of this whether it's some of your own guys creating tips videos or guys like Anton B who is running "lab" sessions to help new forum members adjust to the online world. You also have guys like Shopmaster organizing sites to collect ideas for game modes and you can't forget guys like Derek Adams who runs leagueManager.net and Jeff Setzer who has some of the most active dynasties going over at TSO. I could keep going on for hours, but that's what makes this group great. It's not guys who just run sites or things like that. We've found guys in the EA forums, here on your forums, on Facebook and Twitter, OS, etc. Guys are every where.

We also bring guys out to the community events like OneBack, JeffHCross, Steelerfan, etc who are not members of the Game Changers program, but provide great feedback throughout the community. OneBack personally provided several notebooks full of ideas and some of his plays made it into the game this year. Now all of his ideas were not able to be put into 12, but the guys on the gameplay team were just looking over his notes again the other day as they are setting their plans for 13 and on. My point to this is that not all of the feedback that these guys provide can be actioned on the same year. This is a process and takes some time, but it is all kept and referenced all the time.

We know that you are frustrated by the issues that have come up with this year's game and all I can tell you right now is that the team is not only aware, but working around the clock to get them addressed. It's safe for you to assume that we are aware of and working on the main issues like the transfer fails and the No Huddle issue and we're always reading the forums to see what else has come up. I don't have anything further that I can share on that front right now, but I want to make sure that you know that this has not been forgotten, passed over, or anything along those lines by the team.

I'm always looking for guys to bring in who can provide the best feedback on the game WITHOUT taking personal shots at the development team. That's where I draw the line and the only issue that I've had in the past with some of the posters over at NCAA Strategies. You guys post great feedback here at TGT and I lurk here all the time collecting your reactions and passing it along to the team. Some of our dev team members lurk here too. Most importantly, Chris, Tommy, JB, Matt, Brian and others here at the site constantly pass along any and all issues that you guys run into. That's what we've asked them to do. Again, they have not and will not ever be asked to say good things about the game because we've asked them to.

I'm all for building community. My request for sites is to stop the personal attacks and just provide the feedback. It's just an ask and you guys are free to do what you want, but going after other sites and the Game Changers program isn't doing anything to build community. It's just driving a bigger wedge into it. We all have the same goal and that's the best college football game ever made. Your feedback will always play a role in that. I just hope that it stops coming at the expense of personal attacks towards others.

I'd also like to point out that we've set up a direct feedback email alias where any community member can send feedback right to the team. It's EASPORTSNCAAFootballFeedback@ea.com. You can also PM me directly here with any information that you'd like to pass along and I'm also available on twitter at www.twitter.com/jdewiel. The one thing I can promise you is that ANY and all feedback that you pass along through these channels will be sent directly to the proper members of the development team.

Thanks for taking the time to ready through this.

Justin Dewiel
EA SPORTS Community Manager

[Deuce]

:up:


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[I OU a Beatn]

I'm not frustrated with this year's issues, I'm frustrated with the issues that have existed for multiple years. I sent multiple emails to the NCAA team last year about two glaring online glitches and not only did they get corrected with '12, people can and are doing them the exact same way. Line interaction hasn't worked correctly since I can remember. Defensive pursuit has never worked correctly. That's why you see everyone online running a ton of tosses and stretch plays out of power running formations. The defenders immediately try to cut through the wall of blockers instead of just stretching it outside, which obviously creates a huge lane to the outside.

With the line interaction, there's several instances in this year's game where the Guard will literally let go of his block and let the Tackle right through the middle for a free shot on the QB. Also, the lineman always seem to know where the blitz is coming from and is able to pick it up, no matter how exotic it is. It's another major reason why online is borderline nearly unplayable.

I don't know if these issues are simply ignored because none of the guys going to CD are online oriented players or what, but they're pretty blatantly obvious issues that have existed for a long time. Another perfect example is the warping interceptions, which absolutely drive me crazy. I don't know if it's because of the engine being used or what, but I've had to deal with watching DBs go THROUGH my receiver to pick off the ball every year this game has been released. That animation should result in a collision that triggers a pass interference, which I've seen called twice in the past 3 years combined. These are the exact issues I'm talking about that I'm tired of dealing with year in and year out. These are the exact issues that should be corrected before all else because it would automatically improve the game by ten fold.

[Kwizzy]

I agree that's very frustrating and our feedback reflects that stance. Hopefully the earlier events, the larger number of participants, and the increased gameplay team will bring more changes on that front.

[spiker]

Before TGT and Utopia split CDJ and JB were both moderating personal attacks against EA employees at Utopia. What is the difference at TGT today from Utopia back when CDJ and JB were moderating personal attacks in feedback discussions with EA employees?

[JBHuskers]

A) What's your point?

B) When was I a mod over there?

[spiker]

CDJ was at least.

My point is that personal attacks against EA employees weren't always tolerated at Utopia so to use that as a splitting point isn't entirely accurate. The courtesy of censoring personal attacks against EA ended after TGT split and EA followed you guys.

[cdj]

Before TGT and Utopia split CDJ and JB were both moderating personal attacks against EA employees at Utopia. What is the difference at TGT today from Utopia back when CDJ and JB were moderating personal attacks in feedback discussions with EA employees?

Yeah, JB was not a staff member there so I think there is some confusion in that regard.

My policy while there and now here is that personal attacks against developers would not be tolerated to try and ensure the community voice would be more likely to be heard. (Basically, provide feedback as you would want to receive it from coworkers, boss, teacher, parents, etc.) Similar policies exist at the vast majority of sites: Operation Sports, Tradition Sports, etc. I'm pretty sure large gaming sites such as Joystiq and Kotaku have similar guidelines as part of their TOS.


My point is that personal attacks against EA employees weren't always tolerated at Utopia so to use that as a splitting point isn't entirely accurate. The courtesy of censoring personal attacks against EA ended after TGT split and EA followed you guys.

I don't think there was any "following" by EA or any entities following the creation of The Gaming Tailgate. Unfortunately, misinformation has reigned supreme in attempting to explain why staff and/or forum members stopped frequenting particular sites in favor of TGT, OS, pastapadre, MyMaddenPad, other community sites, etc.

[ram29jackson]

The only thing I see coming from the letter is the the development team will just cut ties with any website that supports it.
Hardcore NCAA players are in the minority and we just aren't that valuable to EA.

EA clearly uses the harcore community as an internet marketing tool [and yes they do get feedback and ideas from them as well] and any part of the tool not on board with their message will get chopped off.

While some upper management might be concerned about an anti-EA grassroots movement, the development team need only to show them the "record start" in sales of NCAA this year to squash their concerns.

The only way we get big changes is if our group of harcore gamers that are unsatisfied with EA's game grow in numbers and become so large that we actually hurt sales in a big way.
At the same time, grow big enough to show other developers that we would buy their version of a collge game [if it was better than EA's] even if they don't have all the licensing.
The developer just needs to make everything open to edit, and the community can "make it" look like real college football.
Like Konami does with their soccer game [Pro Evolution] against EA's FIFA Soccer.
Until recently Konami was king and EA had to completely change their FIFA game in order to regain the top spot and claim the best soccer game.
Wouldn't that be awesome if it happened with collge football??

PES/winning 11 is still king !

[JBHuskers]

Misinformation for sure if the story was that I was a mod over there :D

It's just sad that people think personal attacks is their only way of having "freedom" to express their displeasure.

[ram29jackson]

Yeah, JB was not a staff member there so I think there is some confusion in that regard.

My policy while there and now here is that personal attacks against developers would not be tolerated to try and ensure the community voice would be more likely to be heard. (Basically, provide feedback as you would want to receive it from coworkers, boss, teacher, parents, etc.) Similar policies exist at the vast majority of sites: Operation Sports, Tradition Sports, etc. I'm pretty sure large gaming sites such as Joystiq and Kotaku have similar guidelines as part of their TOS.



I don't think there was any "following" by EA or any entities following the creation of The Gaming Tailgate. Unfortunately, misinformation has reigned supreme in attempting to explain why staff and/or forum members stopped frequenting particular sites in favor of TGT, OS, pastapadre, MyMaddenPad, other community sites, etc.

obviously,..guys left Utopia so to still be involved with EA..they didnt want to stay at what they felt was a sinking ship losing a valuable connection.

[JBHuskers]

...look all around here, there are MANY negative comments. More misinformation is we censor anything that is said bad about EAS games. If that was the case, Beatn's post count would be much lower :D

So basically to turn it around, you're making it sound like the only way to have total freedom of speech is to personally berate a dev. Anything else is censorship.

[JBHuskers]

obviously,..guys left Utopia so to still be involved with EA..they didnt want to stay at what they felt was a sinking ship losing a valuable connection.

Nah Ram, it's not like that at all. If we happened to stay there, our actions would have still dictated the fact that we care about this game and have provided positive and negative feedback over these past few years. We were never worried about losing contacts or whatever.

[gschwendt]

obviously,..guys left Utopia so to still be involved with EA..they didnt want to stay at what they felt was a sinking ship losing a valuable connection.No. Us leaving had nothing to do with a relationship with EA. It was a choice that we made, on our own, with our own reasons. That's really the end of the story.

I can't state it enough... EA really does not calculate into our decisions. We make the decisions we want in order to build a site that we want to participate in. Plain & simple.

[Deuce]

I left simply b/c of the constant anger towards the devs and it became less of a focus over there...by their own admission.


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[ram29jackson]

Nah Ram, it's not like that at all. If we happened to stay there, our actions would have still dictated the fact that we care about this game and have provided positive and negative feedback over these past few years. We were never worried about losing contacts or whatever.

simplistic of course, but it makes sense that i dont hear about utopia guys getting invited and you guys are, so that had to be a benefit of seperation.... i understand that you just felt their site was getting crass as well,.. I think ?

[cdj]

obviously,..guys left Utopia so to still be involved with EA..they didnt want to stay at what they felt was a sinking ship losing a valuable connection.

I've heard that theory bandied about, but it's not correct as gschwendt and JB have already stated.

[JBHuskers]

simplistic of course, but it makes sense that i dont hear about utopia guys getting invited and you guys are, so that had to be a benefit of seperation.... i understand that you just felt their site was getting crass as well,.. I think ?

There was no benefit of separation. We were an integral part of community days even when we were fully entrenched over there.

[JBHuskers]

simplistic of course, but it makes sense that i dont hear about utopia guys getting invited and you guys are, so that had to be a benefit of seperation.... i understand that you just felt their site was getting crass as well,.. I think ?

...and I started out being a community leader for Tiger before NCAA, all when I was over there. There was no benefit and no threat of losing benefit based on whichever decision we wanted to make between staying and going. We had a vision of what we wanted to build 16 months ago, and we are very happy with how it has grown in just that short amount of time. That's not driven by EA, that's driven by the help of the great members of this site, and our vision.

[ram29jackson]

No. Us leaving had nothing to do with a relationship with EA. It was a choice that we made, on our own, with our own reasons. That's really the end of the story.

I can't state it enough... EA really does not calculate into our decisions. We make the decisions we want in order to build a site that we want to participate in. Plain & simple.


but if you had stayed at utopia, would that option as a gamechanger still have been available without branching off?

dont tell me it wasnt an option that didnt run through your mind as a benefit? I dont mean that in a duragatory way, I'm just implying the option/possibilty/idea had to run through your head as a factor is all...? if staying at utopia would have killed that option..?

[JBHuskers]

but if you had stayed at utopia, would that option as a gamechanger still have been available without branching off?



110% Yes - because the Game Changers were created in January of 2010. We were still over there in January 2010. We were members of the initial group of 8. At least Chris and I were, Tommy when did you join?

[ram29jackson]

110% Yes - because the Game Changers were created in January of 2010. We were still over there in January 2010. We were members of the initial group of 8. At least Chris and I were, Tommy when did you join?

was utopia as crass in Jan 2010 ? LOL

[gschwendt]

was utopia as crass in Jan 2010 ? LOLAs we've said in the past, we're not going to go into any great detail about our former relationship with Utopia. We made a decision, we had our reasons, and that's the end of it. Nothing good can come from a "he said, she said" discussion going back & forth about who did what, etc. We've created this site and we feel we're better off for it. That's the extent of the discussion as far as I'm concerned.

[I OU a Beatn]

If that was the case, Beatn's post count would be much lower :D


Literally half. :D

BUT, there's a huge difference between my complaining and a lot of other peoples' complaining - namely, I never, ever call out a developer or spew personal attacks about anyone. The worst thing I've ever said is that "the game is trash." I know if I was a developer and was getting attacked, I'd immediately ignore that feedback, so I don't do it. Treat someone as you want to be treated is a good motto to live by.

[JBHuskers]

Yeah ... it just gets me that people say we censor anything negative towards the game :fp: :D

[ram29jackson]

Yeah ... it just gets me that people say we censor anything negative towards the game :fp: :D

well, you can be thread title Nazi's at times LOL




As we've said in the past, we're not going to go into any great detail about our former relationship with Utopia. We made a decision, we had our reasons, and that's the end of it. Nothing good can come from a "he said, she said" discussion going back & forth about who did what, etc. We've created this site and we feel we're better off for it. That's the extent of the discussion as far as I'm concerned.


I'm pretty sure, there isnt a single - she said anywhere on this site... not a whole lotta' she nothing on this site LOL

[JBHuskers]

well, you can be thread title Nazi's at times LOL








Well you have a shift key at your disposal...use it :D

[bdoughty]

Yeah ... it just gets me that people say we censor anything negative towards the game :fp: :D

Same thing at OS. Back in the days the Moon Pie gang cried that OS was biased toward Sega, now they are saying the same thing only that is toward EA. They are just trying to do what you guys are doing here, create "civil discussion." Something apparently this other site does not seem to care about. Now having read the letter and spending 15 minutes over there I can understand this better. Failgate? From one of the admins? Some of the cats are still stuck in the elementary school mindset when they hit the reply button.

[ram29jackson]

Same thing at OS. Back in the days the Moon Pie gang cried that OS was biased toward Sega, now they are saying the same thing only that is toward EA. They are just trying to do what you guys are doing here, create "civil discussion." Something apparently this other site does not seem to care about. Now having read the letter and spending 15 minutes over there I can understand this better. Failgate? From one of the admins? Some of the cats are still stuck in the elementary school mindset when they hit the reply button.


please,.. OS is a EA cult LOL, the mods there are trigger happy and paranoid beyond belief..you have to post in a bland generic manner or it confuses them greatly and all they know how to solve it is ban-hammer

[bdoughty]

Well you have a shift key at your disposal...use it :D


http://usera.imagecave.com/bdoughty/ach.jpg

[Deuce]

Literally half. :D

BUT, there's a huge difference between my complaining and a lot of other peoples' complaining - namely, I never, ever call out a developer or spew personal attacks about anyone. The worst thing I've ever said is that "the game is trash." I know if I was a developer and was getting attacked, I'd immediately ignore that feedback, so I don't do it. Treat someone as you want to be treated is a good motto to live by.

:up:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SmoothPancakes]

http://usera.imagecave.com/bdoughty/ach.jpg

:D :D Nicely played.

[ram29jackson]

http://usera.imagecave.com/bdoughty/ach.jpg


:D :D Nicely played.


just to point out,..the dude keeps harping on the fact he is ignoring me and I havent said a word to him LOL and even apologized when he said he felt the urge to ignore 2 weeks ago....I will relate this to the site/utopia banter.

I have seriously trolled at that site a few years ago and at VSN where its a culture for half the boneheads over there..but over here, I have never trolled or abused anyone. The only thing I did was give a strong opinion without making it personal so bd and pig feel the need to block because they cant handle it. BD if you want to ignore me go ahead LOL but if you feel the need to keep pointing it out..it kind of makes you an annoying hypocrite


EA just hurry up and tell us the redo is coming before week 5 of the NCAA season !!... i wish/hope

[morsdraconis]

This thread has really turned into a bunch of useless meanderings about nothingness (aka past bullshit with Utopia, OS, etc). Stop living in the past people.

[Rudy]

please,.. OS is a EA cult LOL, the mods there are trigger happy and paranoid beyond belief..you have to post in a bland generic manner or it confuses them greatly and all they know how to solve it is ban-hammer

I don't think OS is an EA cult. I just think it's very restrictive now in everything that gets posted. I do agree that the ban hammer is abused. I've expressed my concerns there over the one and done philosophy but it's their site and their rules.

That site has also gotten so huge it's impossible to have a discussion in the football forums. You post something and 4 hours later there are an extra 100 posts. It's just impossible to keep up. The non-football forums are a little easier, especially MLB Baseball since not many people bought it lol. Its still a great place to get info but I like smaller forums where you can get to know people a little better and be more involved with the discussions.

I do think this site has gotten too chippy between the members. For example, while I don't always agree with ram29jackson's posts I think the shots taken at him are a bit over the line. This is a small community with a nice core of posters but it's not always respectful of opposing viewpoints.

[ram29jackson]

@Rudy

:)as long as the powers that be are fine with me, I could care less about most of the villagers:D

[Rudy]

@Rudy

:)as long as the powers that be are fine with me, I could care less about most of the villagers:D

But that's not how it should be. I've lost my cool once on this site and I regretted it and apologized. Not everyone is going to like everyone but I'd like to think on a smaller site where you've got a nice core of regular posters that we can all be civil. Some of the posts directed at you are not civil and are belittling. I think some have gone over the line at times.

College football is a passionate sport that brings out the passion between fans of both the real thing and in video games. Sometimes we tend to project our opinions too strongly at times and it can rub people the wrong way.

[ram29jackson]

But that's not how it should be. I've lost my cool once on this site and I regretted it and apologized. Not everyone is going to like everyone but I'd like to think on a smaller site where you've got a nice core of regular posters that we can all be civil. Some of the posts directed at you are not civil and are belittling. I think some have gone over the line at times.

College football is a passionate sport that brings out the passion between fans of both the real thing and in video games. Sometimes we tend to project our opinions too strongly at times and it can rub people the wrong way.


Like I said, i apologised to BD, but he just got upset about my lesbian soccer player views LOL and Pig cant stand that I call a game/toy that is sold at toys r us a toy and a game LOL. I never insulted them or made it personal LOL life goes on , so be it... I dont know anyone beyond their screen name. As long as i get online games with you because you arent a glitching 13 year old, thats fine LOL

[Rudy]

I don't read a lot of the off topic stuff and I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to a lesbian soccer player lol.

One of the hardest things to do is respect an opinion you don't agree with. Some guys love NCAA 12. I didn't and traded mine in. That's life.

[ram29jackson]

I don't read a lot of the off topic stuff and I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to a lesbian soccer player lol.

One of the hardest things to do is respect an opinion you don't agree with. Some guys love NCAA 12. I didn't and traded mine in. That's life.


You traded in NCAA 12 ?? I like sports games and figure at the very least you play it through the season..theres still plenty of great games or leagues i could get into before December.. I want to get to know the game as much as possible..maybe not in the sense of some guys here who are ratings and play freaks, but as a fan

[bdoughty]

I do think this site has gotten too chippy between the members. For example, while I don't always agree with ram29jackson's posts I think the shots taken at him are a bit over the line. This is a small community with a nice core of posters but it's not always respectful of opposing viewpoints.

Okay I agree that my little shot at him as over the line, he is on my ignore list and should have been treated as such. That said he was one of he worst offenders of what you write in your last sentence. The name will not be mentioned by me again.

[Rudy]

You traded in NCAA 12 ?? I like sports games and figure at the very least you play it through the season..theres still plenty of great games or leagues i could get into before December.. I want to get to know the game as much as possible..maybe not in the sense of some guys here who are ratings and play freaks, but as a fan

I just wasn't having fun with it. I've got Madden 12 and am still liking it so far. I only have time for one football game and hopefully Madden can hold my interest.



Okay I agree that my little shot at him as over the line, he is on my ignore list and should have been treated as such. That said he was one of he worst offenders of what you write in your last sentence. The name will not be mentioned by me again.

Fair enough.

[SmoothPancakes]

just to point out,..the dude keeps harping on the fact he is ignoring me and I havent said a word to him LOL and even apologized when he said he felt the urge to ignore 2 weeks ago....I will relate this to the site/utopia banter.

I have seriously trolled at that site a few years ago and at VSN where its a culture for half the boneheads over there..but over here, I have never trolled or abused anyone. The only thing I did was give a strong opinion without making it personal so bd and pig feel the need to block because they cant handle it. BD if you want to ignore me go ahead LOL but if you feel the need to keep pointing it out..it kind of makes you an annoying hypocrite


EA just hurry up and tell us the redo is coming before week 5 of the NCAA season !!... i wish/hope


I do think this site has gotten too chippy between the members. For example, while I don't always agree with ram29jackson's posts I think the shots taken at him are a bit over the line. This is a small community with a nice core of posters but it's not always respectful of opposing viewpoints.

Definitely understandable, and I will agree that some shots are a bit over the line, a few times I've been guilty of those shots, but for the most part, whether it was between two other people or between myself and others, I've usually just viewed stuff as a dorm room roommate type thing, we're giving each other some crap, talking some smack, but without any actual venom in the words. Some I'm sure have been serious in what they say and have some hate or venom behind their words, there will always be people like that no matter where you go, but for the most part, I view most of the stuff or arguments between people as just typical stuff you'd see in real life and without any real malice behind it.

Now, if ram were to say to me that he doesn't like or care for the jokes and whatnot, I have absolutely no problem with apologizing and not doing it anymore. Ram has never really said anything about any of it, so it's always seemed to me that he can recognize it as some joking around and whatnot, that it's not serious, at least from me, and leave it at that.


@Rudy

:)as long as the powers that be are fine with me, I could care less about most of the villagers:D


But that's not how it should be. I've lost my cool once on this site and I regretted it and apologized. Not everyone is going to like everyone but I'd like to think on a smaller site where you've got a nice core of regular posters that we can all be civil. Some of the posts directed at you are not civil and are belittling. I think some have gone over the line at times.

College football is a passionate sport that brings out the passion between fans of both the real thing and in video games. Sometimes we tend to project our opinions too strongly at times and it can rub people the wrong way.

I will agree there is a part of the community here that can at times be disrespectful to a lot of opposing viewpoints. I'll admit there have been a couple times I've fallen into that camp, but I still try to respect the views of others, even if I am a complete 180 in my views. That is one reason why I love this place over pretty much any others out there, because we can have discussions, talk about our viewpoints and have our disagreements, most of the time respectfully, without the usual crap that comes with large sites. The smaller sites are much better in that regard.

You and myself have even locked horns in the past during the debates over the RB juke and other moves, and while we both lost our cool temporarily, in the end we were still able to apologize, agree to disagree, and continue on our debates and thoughts in various topics, and that's the most important thing. Disagreements are going to happen, people are going to lose their cool. As long as those same people are able to settle down, realize their mistakes and make amends, that's what will keep this place going along without any (serious) problems, even when the occasional arguments break out.



One of the hardest things to do is respect an opinion you don't agree with. Some guys love NCAA 12. I didn't and traded mine in. That's life.

Agreed. All the thousands of years humans have been around on this planet, and respect of opposing opinions is still something a lot of the population on the planet have trouble with, whether it be on a regular, daily basis or just from time to time. It's probably always going to be that way as long as humans exist, but as long as there are some people in that crowd that are able to, at least most or a majority of the time, then society will still carry on just fine, and the same will be true on here.

[jaymo76]

I don't think OS is an EA cult. I just think it's very restrictive now in everything that gets posted. I do agree that the ban hammer is abused. I've expressed my concerns there over the one and done philosophy but it's their site and their rules.

That site has also gotten so huge it's impossible to have a discussion in the football forums. You post something and 4 hours later there are an extra 100 posts. It's just impossible to keep up. The non-football forums are a little easier, especially MLB Baseball since not many people bought it lol. Its still a great place to get info but I like smaller forums where you can get to know people a little better and be more involved with the discussions.

I do think this site has gotten too chippy between the members. For example, while I don't always agree with ram29jackson's posts I think the shots taken at him are a bit over the line. This is a small community with a nice core of posters but it's not always respectful of opposing viewpoints.

Excellent post Rudy. Due to the name-calling, foul language, etc, I have pretty much avoided this NCAA from for the past two weeks. Enough of the name-calling; enough of the personal attacks; enough bickering; enough site bashing; enough EA hating... let's just get back to discussing NCAA like mature adults!!!

[JBHuskers]

Excellent post Rudy. Due to the name-calling, foul language, etc, I have pretty much avoided this NCAA from for the past two weeks. Enough of the name-calling; enough of the personal attacks; enough bickering; enough site bashing; enough EA hating... let's just get back to discussing NCAA like mature adults!!!

Unfortunately the maturity level of some people just won't change to completely get rid of all that. There's enough proof elsewhere.

[morsdraconis]

Excellent post Rudy. Due to the name-calling, foul language, etc, I have pretty much avoided this NCAA from for the past two weeks. Enough of the name-calling; enough of the personal attacks; enough bickering; enough site bashing; enough EA hating... let's just get back to discussing NCAA like mature adults!!!

No.

[steelerfan]

No.

:D

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

[ram29jackson]

ok, so back to EA...This patch does suck and i'm waiting for update..plus I really dont want to make a playbook till I hear thats been corrected to be really functional

[mnguy]

Unfortunately the maturity level of some people just won't change to completely get rid of all that. There's enough proof elsewhere.
Hmmm...denouncing taking shots at people while in the same post taking a shot. :fp: What gives?

[JBHuskers]

Hmmm...denouncing taking shots at people while in the same post taking a shot. :fp: What gives?

Paranoid, making assumptions, or both? It was a pretty straight forward comment.

[keyser soze]

What is it about EA's video game that seems to bring out the worst in people?

[bdoughty]

What is it about EA's video game that seems to bring out the worst in people?

It's not just EA. Same stuff happened with 2k football games. It was like you have to love or hate one or the other with only a small section of people who could find enjoyment in both.

That said, there is no greater divider of sports gamers than baseball games. Not as bad now, but when we had MVP/High Heat/ASB going at back in the PS2/Xbox days. I will never forget the day we figured out that one of the people posting as a fan of ASB (like obsessed with the game) was actually posting from an IP address at an Acclaim office.

[JBHuskers]

So how many sites is this letter thread remained open on? Is it just ours....hmmm.

[ram29jackson]

So how many sites is this letter thread remained open on? Is it just ours....hmmm.

it has branched to many more places on the internet though and has been widely noticed by an internet public

[ebarws6]

So how many sites is this letter thread remained open on? Is it just ours....hmmm.

The thread at OS got closed because the resident OS'ers there couldn't follow rules, but apparently the head honcho over there is still thinking about the letter even with the thread closed.

[keyser soze]

I honestly don't understand the point of the letter to begin with.... could someone explain it to me on a professional level. I skimmed through it and it seems pointless to me. Here is my take on it: "Hey, we don't think you make a good product and we think the biggest reason is you have no competition. Please refrain from buying out the competition so we can go out and buy your competition's product until you figure out how to make a better game."

If that is indeed the intent of the letter it is the biggest waste of time I have ever seen. If I am missing some key concept please enlighten me!

[JBHuskers]

Remember Backbreaker. People were worshipping it like it was God, then it finally came out.

IMHO, there was no purpose of this letter but to stir up shit, because basically that's all it has done.

[keyser soze]

I mean there are a few simple truths to this game IMO:
1 - This is the best GAME PLAY of the new generation console
2 - This is the best GAME PLAY against CPU on any generation of system
3 - The GAME PLAY could still used some changing but this will ALWAYS be the case and will ALWAYS differ from person to person because it is subjective
4 - The game is buggier then any release of the game series
5 - The Patch concept obviously does not "work" or "fix" bad programming/planning
6 - This rendition of the game actually has termination bugs that end dynasties and game play all together, this is a GIANT black eye 2+ months after release
7 - The EA team that works on this product simply is not all that good. I know it, you know it, we all know it BEFORE we buy the product but we still do
8 - Best analogy I can come up with to compare buying any NCAA game to anything else in real life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRsv1KqQAqU

[xMrHitStickx904]

Can't believe I missed this thread.

[JBHuskers]

Can't believe I missed this thread.

How in the hell did you miss this thread? :D

[keyser soze]

The thread is a dying vine....

How in the HELL is it September 19th and I can't play my dynasty?!?!?!?!?

[keyser soze]

How would one, such as I, go about contacting someone at EA about my issue? I honestly don't know what I can do other than come and b!tch about it here and that doesn't seem to be helping! LOL

[steelerfan]

Dewiel posted several a few contact sources in this thread. Try those.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

[keyser soze]

thanks yo, just sent them an e-mail.

[Roy38]

How would one, such as I, go about contacting someone at EA about my issue? I honestly don't know what I can do other than come and b!tch about it here and that doesn't seem to be helping! LOL

Interesting...

Please post your conversation (if you can) if you happen to get someone to respond.

[CLW]

I'll say this, while I have doubts about the "true motives" of the site/people that drafted the letter (to me it smacked of animosity to the game changers themselves), the game obviously has major/serious issues and the fact that it is nearly October (nearly 1/3 of the game's life cycle) isn't a good sign.

I don't agree with the logic but I'm betting EA at some point just stops with this game and moves on to 13. It reminds me a bit of their last college hoops game that was promissing but had HUGE issues that never got patched/tuned and they just dropped the game.

This game is really close to being pretty solid but the flaws are simply too large to ignore. I wouldn't personally blame anyone who doesn't buy 13 after this debacle. Maybe whoever wrote that "article" at OS (I think) is right. There simply is no reason in the "patch era" to buy a game at launch and the more prudent thing as a consumer is to let the game be out for a month + before making a truly informed decision.

IMHO, EA is using the patch/tune ability as a crutch/excuse to not adequately test their products b/c they believe they can "get away with" (that might be too strong) with releasing a game with huge bugs/flaws with the idea "we can always patch it later". It seems every one of these patches unleashes Pandora's Box and while they may fix the issue it opens up some other huge bug/glitch.

[Keontez]

Penis comparison never helps the community only hurts it. And mods not taking higher road and acting like small children doesnt help either. I can understand getting defensive, but taking flagrant return jabs because "he started it" just shows me where this is going.

[morsdraconis]

Penis comparison never helps the community only hurts it. And mods not taking higher road and acting like small children doesnt help either. I can understand getting defensive, but taking flagrant return jabs because "he started it" just shows me where this is going.

Please point to where that happened by anyone that's a mod in this community? You guys REALLY need to drop the shit and get a life.

[rsump112]

Please point to where that happened by anyone that's a mod in this community? You guys REALLY need to drop the shit and get a life.

mors, I try not to get into the attacking back and forth, but look at well over half of JB's posts in this thread to see where this has happened by a mod in this community.

[JBHuskers]

:D that's funny. Considering this thread was dead for four days...why bring anything back up again?

[bdoughty]

Really? People are bitching about JB's maturity?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=failgate

Really?

[oweb26]

Really? People are bitching about JB's maturity?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=failgate

Really?

First I gotta admit that was kinda funny, second who edited that into the urban dictionary? No way that was already there when the site opened. LOL

It was immature of them to do it, but still slightly funny none the less.

I think anyone who takes things said online seriously needs to get a life, I could care less what someone I don't know has said and I could really care less about internet e-penis. This thread has been full of back and fourth and tempers lost.

[JBHuskers]

The funny thing is this thread was dead for four days and people from other places decided to bump it again :fp: :D

[morsdraconis]

First I gotta admit that was kinda funny, second who edited that into the urban dictionary? No way that was already there when the site opened. LOL

It was immature of them to do it, but still slightly funny none the less.

I think anyone who takes things said online seriously needs to get a life, I could care less what someone I don't know has said and I could really care less about internet e-penis. This thread has been full of back and fourth and tempers lost.

No, it's not funny. It's bullshit. Plain and simple childish fuckin' bullshit.

[oweb26]

The funny thing is this thread was dead for four days and people from other places decided to bump it again :fp: :D

I agree with this also.

[oweb26]

No, it's not funny. It's bullshit. Plain and simple childish fuckin' bullshit.

Mors cheer up man honestly its not that serious and I just like others are not a fan of the other site, but you take things said on this site and apparently others sites (like the urban dictionary) entirely too serious. Deep breath brother!!! :D

It is childish bullshit I can totally agree with that, but I was not expecting to read it, I thought there was a real meaning behind failgate.

[morsdraconis]

Mors cheer up man honestly its not that serious and I just like others are not a fan of the other site, but you take things said on this site and apparently others sites (like the urban dictionary) entirely too serious. Deep breath brother!!! :D

It is childish bullshit I can totally agree with that, but I was not expecting to read it, I thought there was a real meaning behind failgate.

I'm perfectly chill. People need to quit acting like me saying fuckin' results in me being pissed. I like to say fuck. It's a great word.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=588ngaryDJo

:up:

Truthfully, I couldn't care less what the morons on any other site have to say about this site. Just don't bring the dumb shit over here. Stay where you are. We don't want you and we don't want to be there. Plain and simple.

[oweb26]

That video was great I don't normally watch attached videos but I was bored and it was well worth it. :D

Fuck is now amongst my favorite cures words. LOL

[JBHuskers]

Fuck is now amongst my favorite cures words. LOL

One of these days, it will cure cancer :D

[oweb26]

Unless you are married then you are equally screwed.

[ram29jackson]

Truthfully, I couldn't care less what the morons on any other site have to say about this site. Just don't bring the dumb shit over here. Stay where you are. We don't want you and we don't want to be there. Plain and simple

its not like real life where you want to stay out of another neighborhood. site surfing is/can be fun....but a few guys there are still pretty immature LOL

[rsump112]

Look, I like both sites and I read way more on both sites than I ever respond to, as evidenced by my post count here and my recent post count there. But to say one side has been acting childish, and the other has been a model of upstanding citizenry is not wholly accurate. gschwendt, cdj, and others have responded civilly the whole time.

JB, you at times have responded with some of the same vitriol that you accuse Utopia of (why it is referred to as "the other site" has always eluded me). And I did not bump a post that was 4 days old. I responded to a comment from this morning. But before I responded, I went back and read through some of this thread and saw some of the same types of things in your comments that you have constantly complained about from Utopia. Then mors decided to say that no one from here has responded in kind and that is BS.

[Keontez]

Please point to where that happened by anyone that's a mod in this community? You guys REALLY need to drop the shit and get a life.


mors, I try not to get into the attacking back and forth, but look at well over half of JB's posts in this thread to see where this has happened by a mod in this community.

Mors this should answer your question. And further more my comments were directed at mods from both sites. Also I consider myself to be a member of both sites. I even tried to kick start the strategy thread with some of my post. Things just move a bit faster over on Utopia than they do here. If you want to do the research, Im usually the guy that supports some sort of civility over on utopia. I know the backstory behind the split and disagreed with it from the jump. While it grew the community it also split us right down the middle. Immaturity on anybody's part gets us nowhere.


Look, I like both sites and I read way more on both sites than I ever respond to, as evidenced by my post count here and my recent post count there. But to say one side has been acting childish, and the other has been a model of upstanding citizenry is not wholly accurate. gschwendt, cdj, and others have responded civilly the whole time.

JB, you at times have responded with some of the same vitriol that you accuse Utopia of (why it is referred to as "the other site" has always eluded me). And I did not bump a post that was 4 days old. I responded to a comment from this morning. But before I responded, I went back and read through some of this thread and saw some of the same types of things in your comments that you have constantly complained about from Utopia. Then mors decided to say that no one from here has responded in kind and that is BS.

Well said.

[cdj]

I know the backstory behind the split

You do? No offense, but I would say that is highly unlikely. You may have been told something, but that doesn't make it so. Feel free to PM me your version and I'll gladly let you know how close it matches the conversations that took place in April of last year.



At this point, I'm tired of free advertising/bashing of other websites. If you don't like something we do, tell us. If you don't like what another site does, tell their staff. People should post where they want, but they shouldn't act shocked when TGT, OS, pastapadre, etc. all have different rules Terms of Service.

If someone has a problem with a mod or member here, PM me (if you wish to stay anonymous), Report a Post or e-mail the staff account.

If this thread continues in a pattern of stoking fires or provoking fights among community members, different websites, etc. we'll have no choice but to shut it down.

[Roy38]

The funny thing is this thread was dead for four days and people from other places decided to bump it again :fp: :D

Maybe some of us are patiently waiting for others to respond from the initial post. I've got to admit, the wait time feels like an EA patch process.

[cdj]

Maybe some of us are patiently waiting for others to respond from the initial post. I've got to admit, the wait time feels like an EA patch process.

Who is "us"? I thought the initial post in this thread was an 'open letter.' Open letters typically do not lead to people waiting for responses.

It is clear "some of us" need to learn to read. Way back in post #247 (http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/showthread.php?3653-Open-Letter-from-%93A-Dying-Vine%94&p=106672&viewfull=1#post106672) I said that this thread will not continue if people use it to call out or stoke fights among community members. Waiting 48 hours does not mean that statements from admins can be ignored.

If people have some sort of perceived problem with random strangers on the internet, either ignore them or PM them to hash out the issues.

This thread is done.