Army & Navy playbooks - Need help executing

[ram29jackson]

against AI there is no blocking..I cant role out anywhere, there is no time to read anything.

against another guy online he used navy and just torched me. But I dont get that either.? I did plenty to try and stop the run/option but everything went his way.

I just dont get it it ?

[ram29jackson]

Anyone use it with certain sliders or something ?

[cdj]

Is this just against the CPU or online?

Your post says AI so I am assuming vs. CPU but I know you play a lot online, so I thought I would ask for clarification.

[ram29jackson]

Is this just against the CPU or online?

Your post says AI so I am assuming vs. CPU but I know you play a lot online, so I thought I would ask for clarification.

I said when I use against AI...but against another person using it against me , I wasnt stopping it, at least not alot or enough

[ram29jackson]

so, out of the thousand guys that signed up, none of you have used it or figured it out ?

[DariusLock]

Only used it in 11 in a online dynasty with Navy

[ram29jackson]

Only used it in 11 in a online dynasty with Navy

and ?

[gigemaggs99]

I've used the flexbone in NCAA 12, to be honest, I really like it.

I've been riding the RnS wagon for since the game came out, then dabbled with the AIR RAID but went back to the RnS. The Flexbone has some RnS plays, the 60 series for sure and other RnS plays you can make by doing a few hot routes.

Keep in mind (and you know since we've played online) I like using the lower level teams. My buddy and I play, he's almost always Utah St, and I like using NMST or SDST. I have had pretty good luck running AND passing from the flexbone formations.

Now don't get me wrong, I haven't tried using NMST vs Alabama, but I don't think the flexbone would really matter.

Last night I played my buddy and tried to stay in the flexbone pretty much the entire game. I wanted to see for myself if I could do it. One thing that has always made nervous using Army, Navy, or GT's PB is they have 0 shotgun. I guess just out of bad habit when it's 3rd and long I like having the security blanket of the Shotgun.

One thing I've REALLY tried to do better at is staying out of 3rd and long. To do this, I rarely RARELY try and throw it deep. 1) this helps me not throw so many pics, seems like MOST of my pics come from throwing it deep, forcing it into coverage or just bad throws by 1* QBs. 2) it helps me have shorter 2nd and 3rd downs.

I will throw it deep when I have the lead just to sprinkle it in there, but it's amazing how many INTS I can throw in 1 game when I get careless. I'm talking 7+

....so....after playing him last night and seeing that I CAN run and pass from the flexbone, I'm seriously thinking about starting an offline dynasty with Navy or Army. Was in the Marine Corps so it's kinda hard, I guess I could create (team builder) VMI and pick the Navy PB...but that might be a bit much.

So far to help me learn the flexbone I've been using the shoot bone, thanks to SALUKIFAN, I am using his basis for a custom PB then I added some staple AIR RAID plays, so now I have RnS Plays and AIR RAID plays, all from undercenter formations, flexbone, pistol, and a few SG. It's kinda like a mixture of Hawai'i/SMU and Army/Navy.

Here is a link to the custom pb.

http://www.playbooks2012.com/browseCustom.php?pb=31

[ram29jackson]

I've used the flexbone in NCAA 12, to be honest, I really like it.

I've been riding the RnS wagon for since the game came out, then dabbled with the AIR RAID but went back to the RnS. The Flexbone has some RnS plays, the 60 series for sure and other RnS plays you can make by doing a few hot routes.

Keep in mind (and you know since we've played online) I like using the lower level teams. My buddy and I play, he's almost always Utah St, and I like using NMST or SDST. I have had pretty good luck running AND passing from the flexbone formations.

Now don't get me wrong, I haven't tried using NMST vs Alabama, but I don't think the flexbone would really matter.

Last night I played my buddy and tried to stay in the flexbone pretty much the entire game. I wanted to see for myself if I could do it. One thing that has always made nervous using Army, Navy, or GT's PB is they have 0 shotgun. I guess just out of bad habit when it's 3rd and long I like having the security blanket of the Shotgun.

One thing I've REALLY tried to do better at is staying out of 3rd and long. To do this, I rarely RARELY try and throw it deep. 1) this helps me not throw so many pics, seems like MOST of my pics come from throwing it deep, forcing it into coverage or just bad throws by 1* QBs. 2) it helps me have shorter 2nd and 3rd downs.

I will throw it deep when I have the lead just to sprinkle it in there, but it's amazing how many INTS I can throw in 1 game when I get careless. I'm talking 7+

....so....after playing him last night and seeing that I CAN run and pass from the flexbone, I'm seriously thinking about starting an offline dynasty with Navy or Army. Was in the Marine Corps so it's kinda hard, I guess I could create (team builder) VMI and pick the Navy PB...but that might be a bit much.

So far to help me learn the flexbone I've been using the shoot bone, thanks to SALUKIFAN, I am using his basis for a custom PB then I added some staple AIR RAID plays, so now I have RnS Plays and AIR RAID plays, all from undercenter formations, flexbone, pistol, and a few SG. It's kinda like a mixture of Hawai'i/SMU and Army/Navy.

Here is a link to the custom pb.

http://www.playbooks2012.com/browseCustom.php?pb=31

but how are you making it work? how is your line not breaking down too fast? and how about vs a human and vs AI ?

[gigemaggs99]

but how are you making it work? how is your line not breaking down too fast? and how about vs a human and vs AI ?

I took over Army in a 1* OD last night. They are in week 8.

I played at Miami U. I used the Red Gun offense, mostly what you see in the custom playbook listed above.

Well since I'm a wimp and don't go ALL OUT into the flexbone, I had the other formations as backup, but since Army was 2-3 when I took over them I figured what the heck and what's 1 more loss going to do. So, I still went w/ the custom playbook but told myself I was going to run Flexbone ONLY plays unless things got REALLY out of hand.

I need to look at Army's FB stats, first of all he's an impact player. So is their QB. That being said, this dude is amazing! He's fast and can run over people like Mike Alstott. I don't know if I should start recruiting fast TE's to replace him.

I ran a good mixture of the triple option, the QB ISO, speed sweep, WB misdirection, FB DIVE, FB Draw, and some Triple Option Ctr.

I had 39 carries for 229 yards rushing with 3 TDs. My other score came from a PA pass that was setup nicely from all this running, it was the PA Switch play from Flexbone normal.

I beat Miami U 28-21.

All I did was read the DE, if he came at me I'd hold the ball and keep it with my QB try and get up field as fast as possible, if that was covered then I'd look to pitch it. If the DE stayed I'd hand off to the FB and he'd bust it up the gut for a GOOD 10 yard average.

The short quick passing game out of the flexbone is nice too. I would stay away from any long deep passes as you don't have time to let them develop. However if you slam it up the gut enough the defense will over load the box. Then you do have a few seconds to get a quick screen or slants, or stick going. I'm seriously thinking about going strictly with Army's PB. The thing I'm thinking though, is I HAVE to limit myself. I get all worked up and carried away with all the different plays.

The way the Flexbone formations are thinned out in the above custom PB make it much easier for me to learn the handful of plays. You can also set the Defense up nicer, by running the triple option, speed sweeps, etc.. the plays that keep the SB running motion from left to right, then you sneak in the WB misdirection and BAM it blows it wide open.

I would suggest looking at those flexbone formations, it's only a few of them but each one has a good set of plays. I went into the practice field with Army's PB and they have a BUNCH of plays, seems like I'd get lost in there. Maybe once I get these under control I might try and sprinkle in a few more, for now though it seems to work, 39 carries and 229 yards 3TDs works for me JUST FINE :nod:

[gigemaggs99]

As far as playing vs a human, I've played one game vs my buddy. I hammered him w/ the PA Switch, it was nice. I'm SDST, and he's Utah St, we play almost daily, 1 gamer per night usually.

We both have our headsets on and it's a good time, usually talking real college football the entire time (currently we're talking about my Aggies possible move to the SEC).

The point of the headset thing is, when I ran, ran, ran, different runs mind you, the BOOM PA, as soon as my QB faked the hand-off you could hear my buddy whisper, "oh no....." It was a thing of beauty. I know with the spread attack and air raid you can get some nice bombs but this Z WR was so wide open it wasn't even funny. The only thing I was worried about was if he was going to drop the ball. He didn't ;)

We've played before online. Let me know if you want to play some more. I might be the good or decent or anything with this offense but it's fun to learn something new for me, so maybe we can play and learn it together. I could care less about win/loss record when I'm learning an new offense. I just want to play, have fun, and learn something along the way.

[gigemaggs99]

Well I'm thinking like most offensive schemes you need to have the proper personnell. I'm tying to impliment this offense into my WMU Broncos and they just can't do it. I think I'm going to have to pick between pass blocking O-lineman and Run blocking O-lineman. As it is, the current WMU defualt runs a spread offense so I think they are mainly SG and pass blocking.

I try and run some flexbone formations and I get hammered, a lot of times prior to even attempting to hand it off.

[gigemaggs99]

so, out of the thousand guys that signed up, none of you have used it or figured it out ?

....guess I wasn't giving the proper response....hope it works out for you.

[trioptionGator]

against AI there is no blocking..I cant role out anywhere, there is no time to read anything.

against another guy online he used navy and just torched me. But I dont get that either.? I did plenty to try and stop the run/option but everything went his way.

I just dont get it it ?

I use the flexbone pretty extensively and have had good success against AI using a slider set that makes my offense slightly worse and the defense slightly better. Here are a few general thoughts.

- First, I use Georgia Tech, so their players are rated a little better than the service academies, so take that into account.

- Second, set the game speed to slow if it's not already. If you're having trouble making reads this will make things a bit easier.

- I have found that user run blocking MUST be set at 50 or higher for my offensive line to give a realistic performance. One slight downside to this is that the wide receiver blocking can sometimes be a bit overpowered, but if you're struggling, this could actually be a good thing. (Side note: Wide receivers and A-backs actually go for the cut block to put the defender on the ground, which is a cool touch of realism missing from years past.)

- The biggest thing I have found is that you have to set up your audibles to be able to react to the CPU's defensive alignment. Sometimes the AI seems to "know" exactly what play you've called, so you'll need to have the "counter" to that play at your fingertips. For example, if the CPU comes out with a pinched defensive line trying to stop the B-back (fullback) dive, I will call up a toss play, a speed option, or possibly even a midline QB ISO, depending on the exact look they're giving me. I set all of my audibles to be out of the Flexbone Normal formation, and the run audible out of that formation is a fullback dive, which is a play I use frequently. I don't want this post to turn into a novel, so I won't detail every wrinkle here, but my audibles are: Triple Option, Midline QB ISO, Speed Option (with WB motion), Wingback Toss, and one pass play. Try working those plays in practice against different fronts to find out what works best, and if you're having trouble I can try to provide more details.

- Some strategy. First, if the defense is aligned in a 4-3 Over or a 4-3 under, you'll want to run any options in which you are reading the defensive end AWAY from the side with the "overhanging" linebacker. The reason is that the user-controlled team's offensive linemen tend to always leave the defensive ends unblocked in these formations, and even if you make the right read the strongside linebacker is often able to get in there and make the play. If you run the option towards the weak side of the defense, you'll have more success.

- Second, against the 3-4, things are kind of hit and miss, at least when it comes to which player is left unblocked on triple options. I find it usually tends to be the defensive end instead of the outside linebacker, and this can be problematic, so against 3-4 teams I will typically change up my strategy. The best way I have found to do this is to run out of a formation with three wide receivers. Set one of your audibles to a bubble screen or some route combos such as curl-flat. If they stay in their base 3-4 defense, you have two options. First, if the outside linebacker on the side with two receivers lines up over the slot receiver, run an option to that side. You know you'll be reading the end, and something will usually be there. If that linebacker stays in against the run, destroy them by working the short passes to the side with two receivers. If they come out in a nickel defense, you are free to run just about any option or inside running play -- BIG yards will be there more often than not.

- I have not yet run the option against a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5, but I would guess that you'd probably want to work the fullback dives and midline options because the AI seems to be a bit balky picking up safeties in the box.

- Even with everything I said above, sometimes a defensive tackle gets through a double-team block, sometimes a middle linebacker scrapes and meets your QB right after he pulls the ball on the keep, and sometimes the defense strings your quarterback out and has the pitchman covered. These things happen. If you watch any Georgia Tech or Navy game, not every play is positive.

I can understand, however, if the aforementioned stuff is happening to you every time. If what I've said here didn't help with what you're trying to do, feel free to ask more specific questions and I will do my best to help. (I have no experience playing online, so I won't be of any help there.) I love the flexbone and am happy to share what I know.

[ram29jackson]

interesting

[gigemaggs99]

"you'll want to run any options in which you are reading the defensive end AWAY from the side with the "overhanging" linebacker."

I've found this to be SUPER true. I started running AWAY from this overhanging LB and had a lot better success.

Thanks for sharing you Flexbone knowledge, I'm just learning it and can't get enough of it. I've even watched some Army games on CBS College Football TV, they've been replaying most of their games from last season here the last couple of days.

Interesting what you say about your audibles all coming from Normal. I've always wondered if it's better to have you audibles as you favorite plays, or would it be better to have 5 different formations so you have access to those 4 other R-Stick audibles. This way you can have up to 20 plays at your disposal. If you put them all in Normal it seems like you only have 9 (if you aren't overlapping). Any thoughts on this?

As far as playing ONLINE I've had some success. I've won 2 games using Army in quick-ranked matches against my level (1) and DNF of 5% or less. The first was against Rutgers and the other was against Marshall. I had a harder time against Marshall, but it's kinda hard to compare the 2 games. People online, in the lobby or these quick ranked games, they cheese. The Marshall guy went for 2 and only punted 1 time, all the rest of the time he went for it on 4th down. I was able to play some solid Defense so I usually had a very short field so my rushing stats weren't that high since I usually started on his 40 or better.

[trioptionGator]

"Interesting what you say about your audibles all coming from Normal. I've always wondered if it's better to have you audibles as you favorite plays, or would it be better to have 5 different formations so you have access to those 4 other R-Stick audibles. This way you can have up to 20 plays at your disposal. If you put them all in Normal it seems like you only have 9 (if you aren't overlapping). Any thoughts on this?

If I'm running any other offense in NCAA12, I usually like to have my audibles mixed up so that I always have a diversity of plays I can access through formation audibles. However, when I run the Flexbone, I like to keep it simple for three reasons.

First, if you watch Georgia Tech, Navy, or any other team heavily influenced by Paul Johnson, they run well over 50 percent of their plays out of the "Flexbone Normal." I may be exaggerating there, as they certainly run some stuff out of Flexbone Close and formations with three wide receivers or an A-back (slotback) flexed out wide, but Flexbone Normal is the drug of choice.

Second, Flexbone Normal has a HUGE advantage with the way NCAA 12 audibles are set up. It is a perfectly balanced formation, meaning that you can call and flip any audible without players moving around pre-snap. Sometimes I find myself making two or three adjustments on a single play, and basing everything out of Normal allows me to do this without running down the playclock.

Third, (and this is a bit more complicated) if you pay attention to how players shift into Normal from other formations on an audible, you can make sure that if you need to audible from another formation, things won't get weird. Let me explain what I mean by this. From a three wide receiver set, the WR playing the slot generally shifts to become the second A-back or wingback when you audible into Normal. Alternatively, if you are playing a Flexbone formation with a tight end, the TE will flex out to become a wide receiver when calling an audible into Normal. As such, I typically put a halfback out into the slot in three receiver sets, and I use formation subs to put a wide receiver in at tight end (which you'll actually see Georgia Tech do every now and then). So if I want to run something out of a three-receiver set (and I'm not using it against a 3-4 team) I can still call a play from that formation and seemlessly shift into Normal. (Play around with formation subs in an exhibition game to get the shifting exactly right.)

At the end of the day, NCAA 12 does not give perfect treatment to the Flexbone. The AI tends to try to "cheat" a bit in my opinion as I referenced earlier in my post, and the inability to edit formation audibles hurts as well, as I doubt a Flexbone team would break the huddle with three pass plays and only one run play as line-of-scrimmage adjustments. There are also some issues with blocking on certain plays, etc., etc., I could go on.

But the simple fact is that this version of NCAA treats the Flexbone better than ever. I remember back in the PS2 days having to motion the A-back myself on every play and perfectly time the snap before the back would get set in a wishbone position. I remember not doing any reading of any kind but instead just deciding whether to hand off to the diveback or keep based on the defensive line's alignment. And I also remember a woefully incomplete playbook with no tosses, midline option, etc. There is room for improvement from NCAA 12, but I am thrilled with the progress to this point.

[gigemaggs99]

One thing I have found messing around on the practice field. If I run the PA switch or (not sure of the name) the PA where the Y WB goes on a flat route, if I hot route him to an out route he will clear the DB/LB. If I run it as is, the LB/DB sticks to him like glue. Not sure why there is a big difference but hot routing him makes him wide open.